NationStates Jolt Archive

If you're not part of the game please do not post


Current Axis Powers:
Germany

Current Allied Powers:
France
Britain

Current Time: Second Week of September, 1939

Secretary General Josef Stalin has declared another 5 year plan that will focus on building up the military forces. Currenly Planned to be built:

4,500 tanks of KV-1 and T-34 types (500 KV-1's and the rest T-34's)
100 Submarines
1,000 Fighter Planes (Yak-1's)
2 Battleships
4 Heavy Cruisers
8 Light Cruisers
17 Destroyers

In addition, all new houses would be built like fortresses, with thick concrete walls, firing ports, etc.

OOC: Romania was officially part of the origional axis powers(even though they got anexed by Germany later)

If you're not part of the game please do not post

Current Time: September 1, 1939

Current Axis Powers:
Japan
Italy
Germany

Current Allied Powers:
France
Britain
OOC:Hate to correct you, but the Tripart pact has not been signed. So there's no Japan in the Axis powers.

And you should probably make note that these are not the current sides in the war. At this point it would be Germany vs. Poland, France and Britain.

okay, and I don't think Romania entered yet

(Lets remember that France and Britain have only recently begun mobilizing, and are in no position to launch an actual invasion of Germany yet. If they immidietly launch an invasion of Germany, which they could not have done, instead of the year long phoney war, this is gonna be over pretty quickly. However at the moment, the USSR is actually far more friendly to the Nazi's than the Allies. Stalin has been turned down by Churchill on the offer of a Mutual Defensive Alliance, and at the moment, the Nazi's and Soviets are working on a NAP in Moscow. Italy and Spain, though both very friendly with Germany, have not voiced support to Germany. Italy and Germany have recently signed the Pact of Steel, but there are no Axis Powers, as Tokyo has not yet become part of the Axis. Several European Powers are friendly to the Nazi's. Austria has been annexed. Slovakia, Rumania, Hungry and Bulgaria are friendly to Germany, with the Crotian Population of Yugoslavia begining Pro-Nazi Revolt. Another question, how will battle sequences be handled? Is there a war mod, or is it basically a 'I Post' - 'You Post' type deal?)

it's currently I post, you post but I will announce if that changes

China is locked in bitter combat with Japan. But Japan isn't rping yet is he? So what do I do?

probably wait for Japan to attack, if nothing happens for a day or two someone will play as interim Japan.

As for Poland, should we start the game with them overrun or have someone RP their defense, acting as a substitute Poland?

The Blitzkrieg on Poland - Sep. 1st Danzig Northern Poland

Danzig, under the Treaty of Versailles was extrateritorial to Polish Territory, forbidding the Polish from fortifying it... thus why it was not fortified. Polish Partisans however, fortified a Polish Post Office (comprised of several buildings) in the city in response to German SS Units Occupying the City from within. At 0400 Germans, already in control of most of the city (SS Infiltrators easily occupied it, for the Poles were prohibited from fortifying it)cut the phone and electricity lines to the building. At 0445, just as the German battleship Schleswig-Holstein started shelling the nearby Polish Army fortified region at Westerplatte, German units began their assault on the Polish Post. Two 75mm Direct Fire Artillery Guns were set up down the road from the fortified Polish Post Office Complex, and began shelling the North Wall of the structure, providing cover for the 200 odd SS Units moving towards the building. Once the wall had fallen to heavy artillery fire, the SS ?Units would move forward, eliminating resistance and moving into the complex. Once the North Wall fell, it would simply be a matter of time, as the 57 Defenders were poorly armed and ill trained... no match for the Elite Units of the SS.

On 1 September 1939, at 0445 local time, as Germany began its invasion of Poland, Schleswig-Holstein started to shell the Polish garrison at Westerplatte with its 280 mm and 150 mm guns, firing non-stop for some four hours in a suprise attack expected to toss the Poles into complete dissaray. (Historically, there are some 205 Polish Defenders at the Garrison.)

Battle of Bory Tucholskie

The Battle's purpose was clear. Connect Eastern Prussia with mainland Germany. Bory Tucholskie wasa heavily forested area, thought by the Poles to be non-attackable, one of the key reasons the Polish Army had not deployed all of its forces into the area, holding many in reserve... most not even making it there by the time the attack began. German forces in the theater were composed on the elements of the 4th German Army under general Gunther von Kluge, specifically 19th Panzer Corps (commanded by general Heinz Guderian), and 2nd Army Corps under general Adolf Strauβ. According to intelligence sources, the Polish forces in the theater were composed of elements of Armia Pomorze: 9th under colonel Józef Werobej and 27th infantry divisions under general Juliusz Drapella, and Operational Group Czersk under gen. Stanisław Grzmot-Skotnicki.

Battle of the Gdańsk Bay

According to German Intelligence, a Polish Flotilla on a Minelaying Operation was currently moving in Gdansk Bay, this force would need to be eliminated if naval supremecy was to be established. 45 German Aircraft, including 15 Stuka Divebombers and 30 Junkers Ju 87B were to attack the surface force, targeting minelaying vessels specifically. The attack would be one of the first times air forces attacked naval forces on their own, thus expirienced units of Stuka's were used in the attack, units which had seen action in the Spanish Civil War. They would be the most accurate, precise and likely to suceed in their task.

Battle of Mława

Part of the Border Crossing, 5 infantry divisions and 1 panzer division were sent into the Mlawa territory, reported to hold some 2 Polish Infantry Divisions. The attack was to begin with a daytime divebombing strike by some 150 Stuka's, knocking out artillery pieces and anti-air guns as quickly as possible. During the aerial raid, German Artillery Units were to open fire on forward Polish Positions, softening their fortifications for the rapidly approaching Panzer Force, which was to be followed in by the infantry. The artillery was linked via radio to the forward Panzer Units, and would be instructed on when and where to fire, depending on enemy positions. Engineers would accompany the forward Panzer Forces to help clear Anti-Tank Obstacles, cover provided by the mechanized infantry of the division.

(Every assumption I made of Polish Positions is historically how it was. I realise this is Alt-Hist, but that history starts after my attack, so technically, all the forces should be where they historically were, therefor, the attacks would, for the time being, be the same... thats September 1.)

China would like to form an alliance with our friends in Germany. They have aided us by training our infantry divisions and we wish to have more good relations with them. In this troubling time of war we feel we need to make sure we are safe on the global scale. We are already being invaded and bullied by the saber rattling Japanese, we would like to reassure our good relations with you.

Private Response

Unfortunatly, we are currently unable to form any definitive alliances at the moment, however in the future, when situations inevitably change, we shall reconsider the offer.

In responce to the warmongeing imperialism and oppression of Russians, The United Soviet Socialist Republics has no choice to declare war against Poland.

Russian Order of Battle:

Soviet Byelorussian Front

Soviet 3rd Army comprised two corps-sized units.

Soviet 4th Corps
Soviet 5th Rifle Division
Soviet 50th Rifle Division
Soviet 18th Tank Brigade
Soviet Lepelska Group
Soviet 24th Cavalry Division
Soviet 27th Rifle Division
Soviet 16th Tank Brigade


Soviet 4th Army comprised two corps.

Soviet 6th Cavalry Corps
Soviet 4th Cavalry Division (shared with 16th Cavalry Corps)
Soviet 6th Cavalry Division
Soviet 11th Cavalry Division
Soviet 16th Light Tank Brigade
Soviet 16th Corps
Soviet 4th Cavalry Division (shared with 6th Cavalry Corps)
Soviet 13th Cavalry Division
Soviet 33rd Cavalry Division
Soviet 21st Tank Brigade

Soviet 10th Army comprised one corps.

Soviet 24th Corps
Soviet 29th Rifle Division
Soviet 139th Rifle Division
Soviet 145th Rifle Division


The Soviet Ukrainian Front covered the southern portion of the invasion of Poland in 1939, and comprised three armies.

Soviet 5th Army comprised two corps.

Soviet 3rd Cavalry Corps
Soviet 7th Cavalry Division
Soviet 27th Cavalry Division
Soviet 3rd Light Tank Brigade
One additional unidentified cavalry division
Soviet 8th Corps
Soviet 44th Rifle Division
Soviet 46th Rifle Division
Soviet 89th Rifle Division

Soviet 6th Army comprised two corps.

Soviet 2nd Cavalry Corps
Soviet 3rd Cavalry Division
Soviet 5th Cavalry Division
Soviet 14th Cavalry Division
Soviet 24th Light Tank Brigade
Soviet 17th Corps
Soviet 72nd Rifle Division
Soviet 96th Rifle Division
Soviet 97th Rifle Division

Soviet 12th Army comprised four corps.

Soviet 4th Cavalry Corps
Soviet 10th Cavalry Division
Soviet 12th Cavalry Division
Soviet 13th Cavalry Division
Soviet 5th Cavalry Corps
Soviet 16th Cavalry Division
Soviet 25th Cavalry Division
Soviet 30th Cavalry Division
Soviet 15th Independent Corps
Soviet 7th Rifle Division
Soviet 45th Rifle Division
Soviet 60th Rifle Division
Soviet 25th Tank Corps
Soviet 4th Light Tank Brigade
Soviet 5th Tank Brigade
Soviet 23rd Independent Tank Brigade
Soviet 26th Independent Tank Brigade
Soviet 1st Motor Rifle Brigade


Opposing them were 5 Polish divisions on the border, and 5 more in reserve, all of which were infantry.

The 3rd Army pushed toward Swiecany, sweeping aside resistance with sheer numbers and armor support. 4th Army drove toward Baranowicze and Mikaszewicze, encountering little resistance (there were no signifigant units between Sarny and Lida). 10th Army moved toward Wilejka, encountering stiff resistance from the Polish Infantry division in the area.

Ukrainian Front: 12th Army Tarnopol, moving against 3 Polish infantry divisions (1 in reserve, 1 on the line, and 1 rail unit that moved up). The distraction allowed 5th Army to flank the Polish infantry division on the frontline and start to crush it. 6th Army drove toward Sarny to occupy the Poish infantry division in the region.

The Soviet Airforce achieved almost immediate and complete dominance in the air, as most Polish aircraft were in the west or on the ground, and many were older models flown by reservists. Once air dominance was achieved, the Soviet aircraft assisted in destroying Polish military units and delaying reinforcementsThe Polish Infantry divisions were made up of conscript that had shown up late or had complications that did not let them fight in the west. (The Polish would have pulled their best men and weapons to fight in the west, believing the Soviets would not do anything)


10,000 guns
2,700 tanks
1,300 aircraft

Private Response

Unfortunatly, we are currently unable to form any definitive alliances at the moment, however in the future, when situations inevitably change, we shall reconsider the offer.

Of course, we are still interested, however we will wait patiently for your definitive decision. Meanwhhile, the war on Japan has become relatively quiet. Please seriously consider our offer.

OOC: Is this 1 day RL=1 week IC or something different?

yea, that's the time frame.
by the way, if no one steps in as Poland, we'll just do things historically
Also, the game has started and the time has started as well

OOC: USSR - you do know that the Soviets didn't invade until a little later, right? They waited 16 days after the German invasion - mainly because Britain and France are allied with Poland - invading right now could provoke us, not something Stalin wanted.

IC: The British government has decided to call up all reserves and is instituting a draft to provide the manpower needed to combat this full war and defeat the forces of Germany. The parliament has passed the rights to the Prime Minster of emergency powers and he is convening major councils to decide on strategy and logistics for the war. The draft is currently to call up some 3 million men.

The British Parliament has signed a note condemning the actions of the USSR and urges them to withdraw from Poland as Poland is a friend of the United Kingdom and the reason for the war that is now occuring. The 1st British Expeditionary Force is embarking and will be sent to France, time estimated at eight days all told. This force consists of 394,165 men when at full strength in 11 divisions. They will also contain a tank strength of two-battalion infantry tank brigade (100 tanks) and two cavalry light tank brigades (200 tanks) which will be assembled along the Franco-Belgian border in one month. A Second Expeditionary Force is being assembled of another 467,832 men with an additional three tank divisions (700 tanks) in several months time. Other attached naval and air forces are to be attached in an undecided quantity as of this time.

***********************************

Winston Churchill is waiting in Dover for the meeting determined per the message sent to the French governments.

((This is SIC - only France and Britain, or other allies may see)):
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=11072932#post11072932

The French government led by President Albert Lebrun have currently begun mobilising the French armies and are alerting Naval forces to stand by for offensive operations at sea. Albert Lebrun, much like his British counterpart, has been granted emergency powers to convene military staff and other experts in council meetings to prepare for hostilities with Germany. The Maginot Line is on full alert and are preparing a defensive stance until the reserve armies are fully mobilised.

The French government is discussing whether to issue an ultimatum to Germany and the USSR that a state of war between France, Germany and/or Russia will exist within 5 days unless their troops are withdrawn from Poland.

The Maginot Line and Alpine Lines are currently occupied by the 1st French Army, consisting of 13 Fortress divisions, 20 Infantry divisions, 1 Armoured division (w/ S-35 and B1 tanks), 1 Light mechanised division, 2 Cavalry divisions and 2 Motorised Infantry divisions. The 2nd and 7th Armies are enroute to re-inforce the Maginot Line with 43 Infantry divisions, 5 Motorised Infantry divisions, 2 Armoured divisions, 2 Light mechanised divisions, and 3 Cavalry divisions.

The French Air force is currently preparing to counter any German aircraft attacks against the Maginot Line.

The various French Naval fleets are being alerted to begin offensive action at sea at short notice, except in the Mediterranean and Indo-China seas.

Expected time for full mobilisation : Over 5 months

OOC: The Soviet Union wants to get the land that they were promised before Germany arrives and takes it all, and sees a weak Poland right now.
As for British anger, the reason Stalin signed the NAP in RL was because he saw the Allies do nothing

IC:
Fascists throughout the Kingdom of Italy have cried out in anger at our Fascist brothers to the knorth working side by side with our red enemies. They are demanding action on the part of Italy. Benito Mussolini has declared the nation neutral and non-beligerant in this conflict, however, it is assumed that his forces are likely to support those of Adolf Hitler.

Telegram to Adolf Hitler, Germany:
What is happening between you and Russia? You are putting myself and all of Italy ina difficult place. I want you to meet me soon and discuss your plans

Benito Mussolini
Il Duce of Italy

(Total Mobilization in 8 days? How is this possible, when it took the RL French and British over 5 months?)

Secret Telegram to Mussolini

Divide and Conquer my friend. We are not the allies of the Soviet Dog... we simply see no reason to take on another foe when the imbisiles of democracy are already barking at our door. The Fascist Ideology, and more important, the Pact of Steel still rings true in Germany. As for a meeting... please arive in Warsaw in twenty days for the celebrations on the victory over Poland, there we can discuss all desired.

-Sincerely,
Adolf Hitler

According to intelligence, the French and British would not be prepared for an invasion of Germany for some time, thus allowing the campaign in Poland to be finished before any real threat arose. Nevertheless, defensive lines in the west were being strengthened, mainly by divisions already in the area, and forced labor of criminals and concentrated Jews. Trenches were strengthened, pillboxes erected, tank traps deployed, they would not be caught unaware by the French.

(Still on day one of the invasion untill Poland Responds.)

In an unspurprising turn of events, the Prime Minister, Neville Chamberlain was given a vote of no confidence in his leadership of parliament due to the last fews years and the results they have garnered. Winston Churchill has been voted as the new Prime Minister and has given a speech urging no compromise over the actions of the enemy.

His first act with the new emergency powers is to offer Germany an ultimatum - pull out of Poland or war will exist between our countries.

(should we ignore the Historical battles, nah maybe not)
September 9, 1939

Though the German aggression toward Poland was especially apparent, Poland was nowhere near ready at the border for any German attack. They were completely caugh off-gaurd with only a few garrisons loacated near the border. The Polsih MIlitary leadership looked at the reports of the attacked areas and decided to give up much of the Silesia region judgingit to wide of a front to hold agaisn the Germans. Ashamed to give up the very city and corridor demanded by Germany they felt they had no other choice.

They decide to deploy the bulk of their forces behind the Vistula river to anticipate the German advance. That was the best course of action, for defending vital regions of Poland. They hope that they could hold out for a French or British attack, but plans were created to compensate in case those attacks did not come in time.

Battle of Bory Tucholskie
Polsih Forces fell back into a Tactical Withdrawal to the Defensive Line being formed aroung Vistula and abandongin the corrido as thought in the Defensive plan. Casualties were inflicted but somewhat light as there were few Polish forces deployed and Wtihdrawing.

Casualities: 109

Battle of the Gdańsk Bay
The bombing run was somewhat unsucessful and the damaged suffered was only minor.

However because of the threat of bombers the Polish Airforce was put into action. 45 PZL P.11s were immediately orderd to fly and intercept the bomers that had run the sortie agains the fleet and proceeded to move to intercept them on the return trip from the bombing run.

Battle of Mława
Another Tactical Withdrawal was made as the forces pulled out to reinfroce the more easily defended areas in the interior of Poland. 20 PZL P.11s were tasked with covering the withdrawal from Bomers.

Battle of Bory Tucholskie

News of the Polish Retreat reached high command quickly, thrilling German Commanders. The Wehrmacht immidiately informed the Luftwaffe of the situation, brining on a swarm of some 125 Aircraft, their targets predetermined based off of the data relayed to them. 75 Bf 109 Fighter Planes took off first, speeding to areas reported to have heavy infantry fall back. The Bf 109's instantly began straffing the ground, unloading round after round from their several machine guns and autocannons, dropping their explosive payloads on dense troop condesations. Closely following the Bf 109's were the Stuka's, divebombing areas in which the enemy did not retreat, and straffing the ground like their fighter counter parts. Killing as many of the enemy as possible was the goal, and they were intent on accomplishing it. The Wehrmacht was not silent either, blasting enemy positions with artillery pieces of all calibre while ordering the mechanized infantry to chase down and kill or capture as many infantry as humanly possible.

Battle of the Gdańsk Bay

Dissapointed by their apperant failure, the attack craft began heading back to base for refeuling and reogranization. They had missed out on their first chance to kill Polocks, and dissmily headed home. However it was not long before the 45 Junkers Ju 87B caught sight of the enemy PZL P.11's... around 30 in total. Cpt. Hanz Drenzer, commander of the Stuka Attack force lead his veteran squadron into a defensive position. The rather large force split in two, and elevated into the sky at maximum speed (actually faster then the older PZL). Once the two groups had reached their desired height, made a dramatic U-turn, and began heading back towards the enemy squadrons, coming down at them at a forty five degree angle, blasting two MG 17 Machine Guns Each at their 30 odd defenders. Ninety machine guns total, blasting rounds off at a rate of 1,200 RPM was a deadly site. Though a bomber rather than a strict fighter, the Stuka was a match for older fighters, such as the PZL, and seeing as numbers favored the Luftwaffe, Cpt. Drenzer was confident.

Battle of Mława

Like at Bory Tucholskie, the Luftwaffe was instantly informed of the Polish retreat, and likewise, 135 aircraft took off in pursuit of the fleeing enemy. As they took the field, it was not long before they encountered the enemy PZL P.11's, grossly outnumbered and ill-equipped to engage 65 Bf 109's. The fighters, designated to defend the 70 Stuka Divebombers attacked the enemy aircraft viciously. Better armed, armored, and quicker, they were well equipped to defend the bombers, whom began their assault on the retreating Polish. Straffing the ground, and divebombing stationary positions, they wreaked havoc with their blarring whistles. The Wehrmacht blasted the retreating Poles with more fury than in Tucholskie.

After the enemy aircraft were defeated/fled, the Luftwaffe focused on Polish Artillery guns, straffing crews and bombing positions. Nothing was to be spared, as the mechanized infantry sped onward in an attempt to trap Polish Infantry and Guns.

Throughout Poland

With the massive Polish Retreat to god knew where, the Luftwaffe was unleashed in full unison. 1,300 aircraft, including 700 Stuka's and 600 Bf 109's were deployed over Western Poland, their primary mission to attack retreating forces. From straffing infantry to bombing artillery pieces and tanks, they desired to kill as many Polish as quickly as possible, softening the enemy for the rappidly advancing Mechanized Infantry. Due to the massive retreat, AA Weapons were ill-positioned (True in all big retreats, and RL) and the Polish Aircraft would be strained to defend against the technologically and numerically superior Luftwaffe. The Blitzkrieg was in full effect as both the Germans and Polish rushed East.

In the South, the Slovak Divisions were sent in. Crossing the border under heavy artillery fire and air support, 50,000 Slovak's moved in the direction of Krakow from several different locations. With the Polish Retreat, this was made much easier, with constant bombing and straffing runs sent out to help push back any stubborn defenders.

Casualties are low to insignificant, as Polish Forces have yet to begin fighting in full force.

In an unspurprising turn of events, the Prime Minister, Neville Chamberlain was given a vote of no confidence in his leadership of parliament due to the last fews years and the results they have garnered. Winston Churchill has been voted as the new Prime Minister and has given a speech urging no compromise over the actions of the enemy.

His first act with the new emergency powers is to offer Germany an ultimatum - pull out of Poland or war will exist between our countries.

In a most unusual turn of events, Hitler has responded to the British with a suprisingly optimistic turn of events. The Chancellor has summoned a commitee of high ranking party party members to deliberate on the situation. In the time of fifteen days, September 17th 1939, Germany would have it's awnser regarding the withdraw from Poland.

Across China

Chinese forces have launched a series of raiding attacks aginst Japanese supply lines and ammo dumps. Chinese forces have been using captured Japanese tanks to support many of their attacks and have also been using German Sdkfz 222 armoured cars. Many attacks have been successful, only time will tell how much it effects Japanese troop movements and morale.

The Russians continued their massive operation, with most Polish frontline units pined in place the center units were able to move with relative impunity. Heavy fighting erupted all along the front. The fighting with 12th Army and 5th Army against 3 Polish infantry divisions was brought to a main conclusion as the 3 divisions were shattered, the survivors fled west. 6th Army succeded in driving back and breaking up the Polish division it was engaging, capturing Sarny.

3rd Army reaches the outskirts of Wilno, occupying the Polish infantry division there. 4th Army broke into 2 equal groups, 1 capturing Pinsk the other driving on Mosty to engage the Polish division near there. 10th Army overran the Polish infantry division after encountering heavy resistance and high casualties and advanced toward Lida.

The Soviet Air Force continued to bomb airfields, bomb railroads and roads, and support the Soviet attack force

The United Kingdom rejects the German offer and continues the ultimatum. If Germany and the Soviet Union do not withdraw from Poland in three day's time, the British parliament will be asked to declare war on both nations.

when Stalin was told of the British ultimatum he merely laughed and ordered all units to be put on high alert. The entire fleet left port and began sailing down the Norwegian coast

Secret Telegram to Moscow

Though we have long been rivals and practice opposing ideological systems in the existances of our governments, the Third Reich now finds it in it's best intrest to propose a Mutual Defensive Alliance to the Soviet Union. In the case that either the USSR or Third Reich are attacked by the nations of France or Britain, their signing party will come to the cosigner's aid by whatever means nessecary. The terms previously discussed dividing Eastern Europe still stand.

-Adolf Hitler

To Adolf Hitler

We find this acceptable

OOC: Just so you know, Stalin signed the Molotov-Ribbentrop was because he was afraid with war against any powerful nation and Germany is included with this designation to Stalin. So the fact that he would laugh at any threat from Britain seems unrrealistic. As would an alliance beween Hitler and Stalin as so many people would start labeling Stalin as a betrayer to the Revolution and secretly a Fascist and inviting stronger criticism from everyone else in the Comitern and other Comunist organizations.

Oh and Germany, I'm withdrawing not retreating. The loss of equipment and such would be so much lower in a Withdrawal since a withdrawal occurs not from losing that battle, but recognizing that the troops are perhaps not needed there at all. If it were a retreat I would have said so.

This didn't happen when he signed the NAP, he does rule with an iron fist. Stalin signed the pact because he knew the allies would do nothing, and he sees Churchill's threat's as absurd because Britain doesn't have the strength to fight him and Gemrnay (Churchill also hated communists, look for his "devil" speech in Parliament)

OOC: Stalin may rule, but should he feel it, Kalinin could very well start a coup and remove him from power. And if he is betraying not only the Communists position to the Nazis he very well could. And Kalinin is of a high position and able to work against Stalin since he was President of the Presidium.

And Stalin very well knew and attack would come on him if Hitler took Poland and was constantly fearful of this. And I guess he was fearful of Poland as well. This is why he signed on with Germany, he would be somewhat protected if Germany did invade, and was protected from Poland.

This is why he refused to believe the attack on him by Germany for two weeks. So if anything this alliance must only be temporary.

IC: Poland was shocked at the Soviet attack. Not only did it break a Non-aggression pact between the USSR and Poland, but it also broke the Treaty of Riga and various other agreements. Nevertheless it was apparent that the Polish country was under the invasion of to belligerent powers. Poland was hard pressed. It could delay Germany long enough, but Soviet aggression as well? This would certainly be hard.

The few troops in the east where gathered to together were told to form around the area of Brest Litovsk, they had repealed the Communist Nation in the 20s, they would do so again, they would have another "Miracle at Vistula" if they needed one.

Battle of Wilno
The Garrison troops at Wilno were determined and instead held out in the city, hoping the urbanized warfare would give them the advantage over the Russians.

They took up building and put many types of tank traps and mines within the city and set up make-shift fortifications inside city buildings as well and out of the ruble from the bombings runs made against them.

Battle of Bory Tucholskie
Though still in withdrawal to Modlin Fortress in which then the would move to the area around Vistula few Polish Artillery would stop and return a salvo of heavy Artillery Cover supported by Polish AA weapons covering them from the Stuka's Dive-bombing which, because of their slow speed and horrible maneuverability should not be incredibly hard for the Polish AA crews to wreck some havoc upon them. Some Polish Brigades stayed behind as well to combat any German Troops that happened to catch up to combat the Artillery and AA crews.

Battle of the Gdańsk Bay
Though being outclassed in technology the Polish pilots however were better trained than the average German Pilot and put this to use hoping their better training would even out against the more modern planes. Still the objective for this was achieved.

The ships that were attacked were able to carry out their mission unharmed from the aerial attacks of German and completed Operation Rurka. The entire sea-zone between the Hel Peninsula and Danzig was mined. And the ships returned Gdynia, however they were prepared to move out should the Germans move in to occupy the city.

Battle of Mława
Though they are in withdrawal as well the Polish AA crew as well remained with the Artillery positions determined to gain revenge for the defeated Polish Aircraft lost trying to protect them. The Artillery as well covered the withdrawal as they did in Tucholskie. The AA crew fought ferociously to take down the Stuka's harassing them

Battle of Krakow
The garrison and troops here decided to do the same as that was done in Wilno is which they would defend Krakow by holding onto the city and fighting in Urbanized Warfare and then withdrawing. As such mines, traps and such were placed in the city and many buildings rigged to blow should the time call for it.

The Casualties have been light since it was a withdrawal and no major encounters with the enemy have been made yet.

Vistula Area
The polish forces here in expecting the German advance build a defensive line of hastily built Fortifications, Trenches, etc. Mines are laid in various places and AA crews are set up. Demolition crews are on hand should the bridges crossing the Vistula are required to be blow up to delay the Germans.

The industrial areas in the center of the Polish country ad now focused on developing Polish Weapons and a newer PZL P.LL model is ordered to be developed for immediate production.

OOC: you're of course assuming that this would be widely published, and that Stalin could always get him first. Remember that Communism hates capitalists too.
IC:

Polish casualties in the East were very high (the units would be pinned by Army sized forces with more tanks, air superiority, and more artillery. In RL Poland only had Molotov Cocktails as anti-tank weapons)

The Soviet Armies in the Northern Areas of Poland (near Wilno): 3rd Army surrounded Wilno and contented themselves in bombarding the defenders. 4th Army left Pinsk for Brzesc, and the other column moved to Grodno to occupy the Polish division there. 10th Army moved toward Grodno to finish the surrounding of the division

South: 12th and 5th Armies moved toward Lwow, engaging the Polish infantry division there. 6th Army moved toward Maniewicze, taking it mostly peacefully (no Polish units for miles).

(And what makes you think that either Hitler or Stalin would tell the people of this alliance? First of all, it is only enacted when the British/French Attack... seeing as that hasnt happened, no action has been taken. Second of all... these are Totalitarian Regimes. The people know what the government tells them when they tell them.

General and Bory
Not a retreat? My forces attack yours... yours turn and run... exactly how is that not a retreat? Low casutalties? That is insane. You have a 'Withdraw' covered by hastily placed artillery with no coordinates to attack. They are under heavy artillery fire (which actually knows where they are shooting) and heavy aerial fire. AA Guns functioning while German Artillery and Ground forces are advancing on them? This is a withdraw... except you have nothing but hasilty set up artillery an AA to cover it. First off, Artillery only works when you know where you're shooting, which ya dont, second off, AA needs to be set up over time, they can one second be retreating... withdrawing, under heavy fire, and the next be fully operational taking down Stuka's left and right. An artillery piece cannot simply stop, swing around and fire, and actually hope to hit anything, same with AA. AA can shoot Stuka's... but not when they're moving. Oh... and a few Polish infantry brigades that decide to turn around and help hold off the Germans... ugly. There is heavy concentrated artillery fire, heavy aerial fire, and a full blown assault lead by tanks. Seeing as your artillery (Anti-Tank Measures) and tanks are withdrawing, they would be overrun in seconds.

Gdansk
Polish Pilots better trained? I dont know where ya got that nonsense, but throw it out as fast as possible. Not only are these German Pilots Veterans of the Spanish Civil War, they are the 2nd best trained in the world - RAF are the only pilots with an argument saying they bested the Luftwaffe. In addition to the superiority of the plane, theres no way the Polish take out numerically superior Germans, who are also better trained and better armed.

Mlawa
There is a problem with leaving AA guns and Artillery undefended to hold off air and ground attack. With no infantry, German land forces would over run the artillery positions with Blitzkrieg tactics, and the AA guns you have are getting hammered by not only German Fighters and Stuka's, but by Artillery. Their effectiveness would be moderate, but Polish casualties would be outragous, as the withdraw is worse defended than it was in RL.

Krakow
Both sides would take casualties, however, due to the Germans having Tanks, Artillery and Air Superiority, Polish will take more.

-Low Casualties? You dont take low casualties in withdraws, especially when the enemy is pounding you with everything theyve got.

And the new model of the PZL. You cannot design and put a new plane into production in one day. It takes months... years to design, test and prepare a new plane. Then putting them into production, takes more time to prepare the factories. The Polish didnt command the modern US Army. The 'Withdraw', which is actually a retreat, as they are being attacked, isnt perfect, its horribly defended, and under massive attack... casualties... would be high.)

OOC: However, I'm not talking of the Civilian. Mikhail Kalinin is the goddamn President of the Presidium! How he who is technically the Head of State would not know of any Diplomatic action no matter how secret is insane. Unless Stalin went himself and did not consult Molotov or any other members and simply did it himself, which I doubt in all possibility he would. Then you get to that at some point the Military is going to have to realize the Nazis are now their allies, and there’s no way it can’t leak out from there. I don’t care how totalitarian they are, they’re not going to keep everything how they want it, and things do leak out and people did hate Stalin, or otherwise Beria would not have boasted about poisoning Stalin when he was on his deathbed. And should Kalinin, Molotov, Beria, feel like it all they need is any General to get on their side and they can easily take power.

Next retreats come about as a result of defeat. Maybe you don’t know what the term withdrawal is and what the term retreat is. Perhaps you should look it up. Next if there where just attacked by Germans they don’t know where to shot? Do I have to give the exact coordinates for every attack? Then why did I not see yours at all in any of yours posts? Does this only suddenly apply to me? Next how long do you thin it takes to set up Artillery? Then tell me how long it takes when the motivation is death? You really do need to look up with withdrawing is. And being overrun? Let me ask you how many troops do you have heading to those few spots? All of them? Tanks? AA guns. Problem solved. Also you’re forgetting the fact that the Polish have Anti-Tank guns. Unless for some reason they don’t qualify for artillery.

Polish being worse pilots because Germans where in Spanish Civil War? How many pilots were involved in that? All of them? Seriously, you’re giving yourself too much

The Polish Air Force remained active in the first two weeks of the campaign, causing harm to the Luftwaffe as the average Polish pilot was much better trained than his German opponent

Taken from here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_September_Campaign

And the Withdrawal is worst defend than in rl? I do not understand this.

Low Casualties because of Air Support? Aerial Superiority in the earlier part of the war amounted to nothing; bombers back then sucked and rarely hit the right target. The German bombers (or the Stuka) was incredibly slow and still my PZLs where more maneuverable than your Stuka’s and maybe even your BFs You want proof for that too?

On the other hand, Polish planes had better maneuverability and because of its design it had much better vision, from the cockpit, than the German planes. P.11 had a strong construction, good rate of climb and could operate from short fields, even rough ones. It was also of a very durable construction and could dive at up to 600 km/h without risk of the wings falling apart. Theoretically the only limit in maneuvers was the pilots’ ability to sustain high G forces.

Wikipedia again.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PZL_P.11#Combat_use

Regardless I ignored it, but now your presenting all these complaints on me I’m calling it. So there’s no way you would take Air Superiority so quickly in Mlawa.

German tanks were crap in the early part of the war too. The good tanks didn’t come out until the 40s. Perhaps they are a threat, but not one that is hard to deal with as it will be later in time, even if you have superiority. Artillery Superiority? Not currently and I imagine at an enemy that is harassing you as it moves away this would be hard. I don’t care how much men you’re throwing at me. How fast are they advancing because it seems a little fast to suddenly catch up with an enemy that is defending. The majority of your army should still be infantry. There not about to come up real quickly at catch up and attack all of them, especially with parts of those withdrawing covering it.

And did I say it was already developed? Regardless there was a new plane developed before the whole invasion started called the P.11g so perhaps you should do you research. Anyways the prototype was already tested so I don’t see why I can’t produce it now. Unless there’s some unwritten rule about not being able to produce planes that have already a prototype and are tested but not yet in production and such.

Only the prototype of P.11g was flown before the war, in August 1939Taken from the same link about the PLZs having better maneuverability.

I'm sorry if you were expecting a rollover victory, but even so this was not going to be one without me. But with me I'm not about to defend such a long border as the Poles did and actually went straight to the Vistula defense, nor am I about to avoid fighting in the large cities as they did, nor am I going to give up just because the Soviet Union entered as well.

(oh by the way also from Wikipedia

Despite the term blitzkrieg being coined during the Polish September Campaign of 1939, historians generally hold that German operations during it were more consistent with more traditional methods.

From this link
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blitzkrieg)

OOC: However, I'm not talking of the Civilian. Mikhail Kalinin is the goddamn President of the Presidium! How he who is technically the Head of State would not know of any Diplomatic action no matter how secret is insane. Unless Stalin went himself and did not consult Molotov or any other members and simply did it himself, which I doubt in all possibility he would. Then you get to that at some point the Military is going to have to realize the Nazis are now their allies, and there’s no way it can’t leak out from there. I don’t care how totalitarian they are, they’re not going to keep everything how they want it, and things do leak out and people did hate Stalin, or otherwise Beria would not have boasted about poisoning Stalin when he was on his deathbed. And should Kalinin, Molotov, Beria, feel like it all they need is any General to get on their side and they can easily take power.

Next retreats come about as a result of defeat. Maybe you don’t know what the term withdrawal is and what the term retreat is. Perhaps you should look it up. Next if there where just attacked by Germans they don’t know where to shot? Do I have to give the exact coordinates for every attack? Then why did I not see yours at all in any of yours posts? Does this only suddenly apply to me? Next how long do you thin it takes to set up Artillery? Then tell me how long it takes when the motivation is death? You really do need to look up with withdrawing is. And being overrun? Let me ask you how many troops do you have heading to those few spots? All of them? Tanks? AA guns. Problem solved. Also you’re forgetting the fact that the Polish have Anti-Tank guns. Unless for some reason they don’t qualify for artillery.

Polish being worse pilots because Germans where in Spanish Civil War? How many pilots were involved in that? All of them? Seriously, you’re giving yourself too much



Taken from here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_September_Campaign

And the Withdrawal is worst defend than in rl? I do not understand this.

Low Casualties because of Air Support? Aerial Superiority in the earlier part of the war amounted to nothing; bombers back then sucked and rarely hit the right target. The German bombers (or the Stuka) was incredibly slow and still my PZLs where more maneuverable than your Stuka’s and maybe even your BFs You want proof for that too?



Wikipedia again.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PZL_P.11#Combat_use

Regardless I ignored it, but now your presenting all these complaints on me I’m calling it. So there’s no way you would take Air Superiority so quickly in Mlawa.

German tanks were crap in the early part of the war too. The good tanks didn’t come out until the 40s. Perhaps they are a threat, but not one that is hard to deal with as it will be later in time, even if you have superiority. Artillery Superiority? Not currently and I imagine at an enemy that is harassing you as it moves away this would be hard. I don’t care how much men you’re throwing at me. How fast are they advancing because it seems a little fast to suddenly catch up with an enemy that is defending. The majority of your army should still be infantry. There not about to come up real quickly at catch up and attack all of them, especially with parts of those withdrawing covering it.

And did I say it was already developed? Regardless there was a new plane developed before the whole invasion started called the P.11g so perhaps you should do you research. Anyways the prototype was already tested so I don’t see why I can’t produce it now. Unless there’s some unwritten rule about not being able to produce planes that have already a prototype and are tested but not yet in production and such.

Taken from the same link about the PLZs having better maneuverability.

I'm sorry if you were expecting a rollover victory, but even so this was going to be one without me. But with me I'm not about to defend such a long border as the Poles did and actually went straight to the Vistula defense, nor am I about to avoid fighting in the large cities as they did, nor am I going to give up just because the Soviet Union entered as well.

You've also completely looked over the fact that capitalists and communists hated each other, Churchill compared Stalin to Satan! Besides, the alliance doesn't have to be one of ideologies, its an alliance of "enemy of my enemy" sort of thing.

AS for retreating on the East, many of your units are currently pinned and by moving they'd get slaughtered (like if 2 people are in holes shooting at each other, 1 doesn't get up and run, because they'd die), and transportation was slower because roads and railroads were destroyed.

Prince Paul of Yugoslavia begs England to assist us in what we see will be dire times for our nation. The German army will soon turn its forces to us if something is not done! We give you and your allies full permission to launch forces from our borders.

Signed

~Prince Paul

Wanderjar, did you get my TG?

Wanderjar, did you get my TG?

Not yet sorry.

I'll resend it then

OOC: However, I'm not talking of the Civilian. Mikhail Kalinin is the goddamn President of the Presidium! How he who is technically the Head of State would not know of any Diplomatic action no matter how secret is insane. Unless Stalin went himself and did not consult Molotov or any other members and simply did it himself, which I doubt in all possibility he would. Then you get to that at some point the Military is going to have to realize the Nazis are now their allies, and there’s no way it can’t leak out from there. I don’t care how totalitarian they are, they’re not going to keep everything how they want it, and things do leak out and people did hate Stalin, or otherwise Beria would not have boasted about poisoning Stalin when he was on his deathbed. And should Kalinin, Molotov, Beria, feel like it all they need is any General to get on their side and they can easily take power.

Next retreats come about as a result of defeat. Maybe you don’t know what the term withdrawal is and what the term retreat is. Perhaps you should look it up. Next if there where just attacked by Germans they don’t know where to shot? Do I have to give the exact coordinates for every attack? Then why did I not see yours at all in any of yours posts? Does this only suddenly apply to me? Next how long do you thin it takes to set up Artillery? Then tell me how long it takes when the motivation is death? You really do need to look up with withdrawing is. And being overrun? Let me ask you how many troops do you have heading to those few spots? All of them? Tanks? AA guns. Problem solved. Also you’re forgetting the fact that the Polish have Anti-Tank guns. Unless for some reason they don’t qualify for artillery.

Polish being worse pilots because Germans where in Spanish Civil War? How many pilots were involved in that? All of them? Seriously, you’re giving yourself too much



Taken from here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_September_Campaign

And the Withdrawal is worst defend than in rl? I do not understand this.

Low Casualties because of Air Support? Aerial Superiority in the earlier part of the war amounted to nothing; bombers back then sucked and rarely hit the right target. The German bombers (or the Stuka) was incredibly slow and still my PZLs where more maneuverable than your Stuka’s and maybe even your BFs You want proof for that too?



Wikipedia again.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PZL_P.11#Combat_use

Regardless I ignored it, but now your presenting all these complaints on me I’m calling it. So there’s no way you would take Air Superiority so quickly in Mlawa.

German tanks were crap in the early part of the war too. The good tanks didn’t come out until the 40s. Perhaps they are a threat, but not one that is hard to deal with as it will be later in time, even if you have superiority. Artillery Superiority? Not currently and I imagine at an enemy that is harassing you as it moves away this would be hard. I don’t care how much men you’re throwing at me. How fast are they advancing because it seems a little fast to suddenly catch up with an enemy that is defending. The majority of your army should still be infantry. There not about to come up real quickly at catch up and attack all of them, especially with parts of those withdrawing covering it.

And did I say it was already developed? Regardless there was a new plane developed before the whole invasion started called the P.11g so perhaps you should do you research. Anyways the prototype was already tested so I don’t see why I can’t produce it now. Unless there’s some unwritten rule about not being able to produce planes that have already a prototype and are tested but not yet in production and such.

Taken from the same link about the PLZs having better maneuverability.

I'm sorry if you were expecting a rollover victory, but even so this was not going to be one without me. But with me I'm not about to defend such a long border as the Poles did and actually went straight to the Vistula defense, nor am I about to avoid fighting in the large cities as they did, nor am I going to give up just because the Soviet Union entered as well.

Regarding the alliance... do you have any idea how scared people were of Hitler and Stalin? Stalin just finished KILLING 60% of his Military Officer Core. Nobdy is fucking with him. They are all scared shitless. And at the moment, there are only two people that know of this pact, Hitler, and Stalin. It was a private message to him, and in the case some ass decided to go mouthing off about an alliance, the two dictators could easily deny it, and kill the 'traitor'. Hitler was the savior of Germany, nobody was going to second guess him without expecting a bullet in their head.

Next retreats come about as a result of defeat. Maybe you don’t know what the term withdrawal is and what the term retreat is. Perhaps you should look it up. Next if there where just attacked by Germans they don’t know where to shot? Do I have to give the exact coordinates for every attack? Then why did I not see yours at all in any of yours posts? Does this only suddenly apply to me? Next how long do you thin it takes to set up Artillery? Then tell me how long it takes when the motivation is death? You really do need to look up with withdrawing is. And being overrun? Let me ask you how many troops do you have heading to those few spots? All of them? Tanks? AA guns. Problem solved. Also you’re forgetting the fact that the Polish have Anti-Tank guns. Unless for some reason they don’t qualify for artillery.

And when your troops begin being shot, and run, you consider that a victory? Mabey you should take a look at what happened... my troops moved in, pounding you with artillery, you then turned around, and ran to the Vistula River... uhh... ya, thats a retreat. And yes, apperantly you have no idea how artillery worked back in the day. There were two methods on how to use artillery. Slowly pound general areas and slowly adjust your targets based on intell... this takes hours, days in most cases. The second, have a spotter. A spotter to relay coordinates to your artillery. You couldnt possibly have a spotted, for not only are your men retreating, my men are swarming the area. And seeing as the PZL. is the most outdated plane in Europe, no way it's going to knock out the Luftwaffe and pinpoint artillery positions... kinda hard to do when... MOST PZL's DIDNT HAVE RADIO'S. So how long does it take to set up artillery and effectively shoot at targets? More than a few minutes... which is all the time you'd have in this full blown retreat. A withdraw is a strategical situation in which forces are slowly pulled out... you just turned all your men around and started running. Why do my artillery pieces know where to shoot? First of all, I have land forces right there, where as yours are running. Second of all, the air is filled with my aircraft, who, unlike the PZL's, had radio's. Those radio's transmitted coordinates. So the difference... my artillery pieces know where your AA Guns and Artillery are. Your artillery have a very general idea of where mine are, which means in a shoot out, im gonna win.

AA guns. Problem solved. Also you’re forgetting the fact that the Polish have Anti-Tank guns. Unless for some reason they don’t qualify for artillery.

WOW! You're amazing... why did'nt the Polish think of that? If only they had used their AA Guns, they would have won the war... wow... so simple... except for the fact that AA Guns dont work when they are being hit by artillery shells. Yes, the AA Guns would be semi-effective... yet you have no ground forces protecting them, so there is nothing to stop some german soldiers from walking up and shooting them. And Anti-Tank Guns, along with everything else, need preparation. One minute they are running like crazy, the next their firing pinpoint shots on enemy tanks? No... not when you have Bf 109's straffing the shot out of em.

Regarding Pilots. In your link, it said that despite tech differences, the Polish shot down one German for about every one they lost... ok... well then how do 30 Polish PZL's shoot down 45 German Stuka's? According to your evidence, I should have 15 Stuka's left with you losing 30.

Artillery Superiority? Not currently and I imagine at an enemy that is harassing you as it moves away this would be hard. I don’t care how much men you’re throwing at me. How fast are they advancing because it seems a little fast to suddenly catch up with an enemy that is defending. The majority of your army should still be infantry. There not about to come up real quickly at catch up and attack all of them, especially with parts of those withdrawing covering it.

Artillery Superiority - I have more guns, and guns of higher calibre. My guns have actual targets and coordinates to shoot at, you have very generalized locations. And fighting an enemy that moves away is actually easier than one that doesnt. An artillery piece that shoots and moves has to reset it's target settings every time it moves, making it very unaccurate. And how fast are my men advancing? Well, unless you're leaving your artillery behind, faster than you are retreating. Believe it or not, a German Infantry Grunt can run faster than a Polish Artillery Crew can haul a Anti-Tank Gun. Most Polish Artillery Crews did not have personal cars/trucks to haul them around. In all 'withdraws', there are substantial casualties, especially when the enemy is pinpointing you with heavy guns. And dont say you're shooting my artillery before I shoot your men... you have no idea where my guns are.

How did I take aerial superiority at Mlawa? Uh... 135 German aircraft vs. 20 Polish? Cough... you think 20 Polish PZL's can defeat 75 Bf 109's and 85 Stuka's? No... they cant. The German Aircraft would take the air in minutes... would the AA Guns cause damage? Yes. Would that stop as soon as the artillery found them? Also, yes.

And you are really underestimating the Stuka. They were deadly accurate when divebombing, one German Pilot actually knocked out 500 tanks on his own during WWII, so ya, do some research before you label the Stuka shit. Then the thing about the Panzer IV and III being crap. Compared to British, French and Russian tanks, they were average, compared to the outdated junk the Polish were using, they were M1A2's.

I'm sorry if you were expecting a rollover victory, but even so this was going to be one without me. But with me I'm not about to defend such a long border as the Poles did and actually went straight to the Vistula defense, nor am I about to avoid fighting in the large cities as they did, nor am I going to give up just because the Soviet Union entered as well.

Im sorry if you were thinking you were commanding the modern US Army, with perfect coordination and unparalled organization. This is the Polish Army, in which organization was scarce. Expecting them to know how to perfectly cover a massive withdraw half way across the country with the entire German Army hitting them... ya right. Most Polish forces have not even been deployed yet... that is why the Polish didnt simply retreat, as a good number of their men were still being called up West of the Vistula River.

-And your link said that the Bf's were faster, better armed and more manuverable than the PZL's.

Regarding Pilots. In your link, it said that despite tech differences, the Polish shot down one German for about every one they lost... ok... well then how do 30 Polish PZL's shoot down 45 German Stuka's? According to your evidence, I should have 15 Stuka's left with you losing 30.

Artillery Superiority - I have more guns, and guns of higher calibre. My guns have actual targets and coordinates to shoot at, you have very generalized locations. And fighting an enemy that moves away is actually easier than one that doesnt. An artillery piece that shoots and moves has to reset it's target settings every time it moves, making it very unaccurate. And how fast are my men advancing? Well, unless you're leaving your artillery behind, faster than you are retreating. Believe it or not, a German Infantry Grunt can run faster than a Polish Artillery Crew can haul a Anti-Tank Gun. Most Polish Artillery Crews did not have personal cars/trucks to haul them around. In all 'withdraws', there are substantial casualties, especially when the enemy is pinpointing you with heavy guns. And dont say you're shooting my artillery before I shoot your men... you have no idea where my guns are.

And you are really underestimating the Stuka. They were deadly accurate when divebombing, one German Pilot actually knocked out 500 tanks on his own during WWII, so ya, do some research before you label the Stuka shit. Then the thing about the Panzer IV and III being crap. Compared to British, French and Russian tanks, they were average, compared to the outdated junk the Polish were using, they were M1A2's.

-And your link said that the Bf's were faster, better armed and more manuverable than the PZL's.

He said: at least one german plane per polish plane.

The polish had some very excelent Anti tank rifles, so good that the germans copied them, (although the german design was crappier). I hope I don't have to define an Anti-Tank Rifle to you.

The JU-87 was accurate, mostly because of an automated pull out device that kept pilots alive after a particularily steep dive. The pilot would then black out for a time afterwards. This was much better than to watch a well trained pilot crash with his bomb into the ground. Also, this permited a steeper dive and since you now have almost zero forward velocity, aiming is so simple almost anybody with good nerves could do it. The 500 tank kill claim was not made with bombs, but strafing with a modified JU-87 with a pair of 20 mm cannons. And even he missed from time to time. Also note the words one german pilot, in other words, that was much above average. The Fuhrer was extatic if any of his pilots lived past their 200th mission, Hans-Ulrich Rudel made over 2,000 sorties to make those 500 tank kills.

Who has more toime to set up a gun (artillery)? Someone 100 miles behind friendly lines and merely waits for the enemy, or someone who has to advance under enemy fire to get within range. Also, Polish artillery 'zeroed' select choke points. Zeroing is another method of using artillery. You lock in preset co-ordnates and save them, give them a short code and when the enemy is around you give orders reletive to a zeroed location. Very accurate, very fast. Ever see an unassisted 105 mm shoot a moving truck from 2 miles away with one shot?

Wiki source you most likely overlooked and/or distorted for your own needs.
On the other hand, Polish planes had better maneouvreability and because of its design it had much better vision, from the cockpit, than the German planes. P.11 had a strong construction, good rate of climb and could operate from short fields, even rough ones. It was also of a very durable construction and could dive at up to 600 km/h without risk of the wings falling apart. Theoretically the only limit in maneouvres was the pilots ability to sustain high G forces. Despite the German superiority, P.11 managed to shoot down a considerable number of German aircraft, including fighters, but suffered heavy losses as well. The exact numbers are not fully verified, but it appears that at least one German plane shot down for each P.11 lost (a figure of 141 German planes is often given as compared with 118 planes lost).

The first aircraft shot down in World War II, on September 1 at dawn, was a PZL P.11c of Capt. Mieczysław Medwecki shot down by a German Ju 87. The first Allied air victory was achieved 20 minutes later by Medwecki's wingman, Wladyslaw Gnys who shot down two Dornier Do 17E with his P.11c. It was also the first airplane to successfully ram an enemy plane in WWII. The first large air battle of World War II took place in the early morning of September 1 over the city of Nieporet in North-Western Poland when a German bomber group of about 70 Heinkel He 111 and Dornier Do 17 was intercepted by some 20 P-11 and 10 P-7 fighters and had to abandon their mission on Warsaw.

anti-tank rifles weren't very effective because they were rifles, and couldn't hold the amount of power as an artillery piece could.

They didn't need to. Even Panzer IVs where reportedly knocked out by Russian Anti tank rifles. Albeit .55 cal ones. If it can penetrate 1/2" of RHA, it had a good chance of knocking out a tank.

An ant-tank rifle even had enough to penetrate a few M-4 Shermans. And in 1939, there where no M-4 Shermans.

Remember, back in 1939 most of germany's tank where armed solely with MGs (Panzer I), a lucky few had 37 mm cannons (Panzer II). In 1940 the germans upgraded to 50 mm, and 75 mm short of the Panzer III and IV respectively.

Also note, the early Panzer IVs had as little armor as a Panzer I "agricultural tractor".

Anti tank rifles also could more often than not penetrate armoured cars and half-tracks.

The polish also had the best light Anti tank Rifles of 1939, reletively easy to carry, and reliable. They issued them to houses in abox with 20 rounds of ammo.

Now stop whining and continue.

They didn't need to. Even Panzer IVs where reportedly knocked out by Russian Anti tank rifles. Albeit .55 cal ones. If it can penetrate 1/2" of RHA, it had a good chance of knocking out a tank.

An ant-tank rifle even had enough to penetrate a few M-4 Shermans. And in 1939, there where no M-4 Shermans.

Remember, back in 1939 most of germany's tank where armed solely with MGs (Panzer I), a lucky few had 37 mm cannons (Panzer II). In 1940 the germans upgraded to 50 mm, and 75 mm short of the Panzer III and IV respectively.

Also note, the early Panzer IVs had as little armor as a Panzer I "agricultural tractor".

Anti tank rifles also could more often than not penetrate armoured cars and half-tracks.

The polish also had the best light Anti tank Rifles of 1939, reletively easy to carry, and reliable. They issued them to houses in abox with 20 rounds of ammo.

Now stop whining and continue.

I'm not whining, I have virtually no resistance and I'm waiting for Poland to respond to my attacks. The Panzer I had 2 Machine guns, the Mark II had a 20mm gun, the Mark III had a 37mm gun which was upgraded to a 50mm later on in the war

I'm not whining, I have virtually no resistance and I'm waiting for Poland to respond to my attacks. The Panzer I had 2 Machine guns, the Mark II had a 20mm gun, the Mark III had a 37mm gun which was upgraded to a 50mm later on in the war

I always get the ealy 20 mm Mark II, the later 37 mm Mark II (Lynx), and the early 37 mm Mark III mixed up.

To add further confusion, the Mark III was later fitted with a short 75 mm gun, some with rifling removed to better fire HEAT shells.

All early german tank had side armor of 10 mm, while the polish AT rifle could penetrate 30 mm at 30 degrees at 300 meters range.

This great weapon also was secret, and therefore came as a nasty shock to the Gemans.

It also fired a unique bullet, kinda like a KE HESH shell. It squashed flat, and due to shear force of momentum via velocity, gouged a hole 4 times the size of the bullet (20 mm hole from 12 mm bullet).

sry to be the kill joy, but wouldn't this discussion be better suited for the OOC part of our little play?

sry to be the kill joy, but wouldn't this discussion be better suited for the OOC part of our little play?
I second this

Alright I do think we should.

I'll post the response in a little bit.

(I am going to assume that all your active troops, and a good deal of troops not yet called up have made it across the Vistula and begun setting up defenses. Unless you say otherwise, my troops are moving through Western Poland securing whatever it is you left behind, including cities, towns, guns, ammo and supplies. Low casualties on both sides now result on you sitting on the East side of the Vistula and me on the West side. If you would like to draw a map of your line, or should I just assume it is the exact River?)

IC:

German Forces have begun securing towns and cities in Western Poland, with forward forces moving to the Vistula to set up observation posts.

(It's pretty much the river. So most of everything west in under you occupational control)

The Polish forces begin to set up the defenses on the Eastern side of the Vistula rigging the few bridges crossing it to explode, while civilians under Militar Engineers create makeshift fortifications and trenches.

With that the force in the rear set up all the artillery and AA to defend against attacks. A Sizeable number of forces are concentrated between the sections of river connecting Warsaw to Sandomierz however a good number are near Krakow.

Krakow

The 21st Mountain Infantry Division and 1st Mountain Brigade come from the east to flank the Slovakian divisions at Krakow. And set up positions to split the Slovakian forces.

30 PZL.37 Łoś Bombers from the nearby airfield are ordered to bomb the Slovakian divisions and soften them up for the coming infantry. Meanwhile the Units from Czestochowa move eastwards to Krakow to support the division holding the city.

Lwow
Meeting the advance of the Soviet Armies with stiff resistance the Polish units took to the buildings for harsh urban combat, keeping most of the city under their control waiting for forces to come help them breakout from the city.

The KOP division and two infantry divisions nearby move in to flank the soviet forces there holding a perimeter to keep from being encircled.

At Wilno the KOP forces holding decide to break off and retreat back Grodno while the 39th and 44th Infantry Divisions and the Wileńska Cavalry Brigade are ordered to split off from the main groups of soldier holding near Warsaw to move east to support the few Infantry and KOP divisions holding back.

Causalities on the eastern fronts are high while the casualties on the Western are increasing substantially.

Krakow

The 50,000 Slovak Soldiers in and around the city initially knew little of the Polish Flanking Attack, as only one division was placed on the East side of the Vistula. The division was hit hard, as their orders and informational statistics told them nothing of enemy aircraft posing a threat. The five AA Guns set up did serve their purpose, but the Slovak Division, moving north, was hit hard, as the thirty PZL's inflicted some 300 Casualties, most being deaths. The Slovak Infantry Division of 10,000, accompanied by some 100 German Panzer IV's, were obviously not where they thought they were. According to HQ, they were to swing north and close off the city to retreating Polish forces inside Krakow. However with the airstrike, it was apperant that the Polish were not giving up the city without a fight. The movement of the Slovak Division and the Panzer Division was stopped, and skirmishers deployed to the East, North and South. Before long, elements of the Polish Flanking Divisions from the East were detected, and the Slovak Division began setting up positions East of Krakow. Machine guns, AA Guns and infantry were deployed in defensible positions to await the coming of the Polish Forces. The Moving Panzer forces leading the Slovak Infantry were notified, and immidietly swung around, heading back to the south. By their present course, they should run dead into the right flank of the Polish Attackers. When they did hit them, they were to continue south until the Polish were broken.

The Polish hit the outnumbered Slovak's hard, forcing them back initially, however after some 800 Casualties were taken, the reserve battalions stabalized a battle line against the Polish. As the Panzer Division Swept south, the Artillery Battalion previously shelling the city redirected it's attention, as some 50 105mm Guns pounded Polish Forces attacking the Slovak's on Right Flank. The Luftwaffe stationed in Slovakia soon took off, as 25 Bf 109's accompanied 30 Stuka's, all attacking the flanking Polish Divisions. The Bf 109's straffed the ground constantly, with the Stuka's divebombing random troop locations.

Inside the city, the three Slovak Divisions pushed forward, fighting furiously against their Polish counter parts.

Further West the units from Czestochowa were encountered by the 14th Panzer Division, and shortly after a division of Slovak Infantry. Recieving light aerial and artillery support, the Panzer's and Slovak's viciously fought against the attacking Polish Force. (Not sure how many there are.)

Battle Map of Krakow (http://img433.imageshack.us/img433/6200/napmap8pd.gif)

Poland

German Forces have begun setting up positions west of the Vistula.
Map of German Line (http://img433.imageshack.us/img433/3186/hh2jw.gif)

OOC: This will be vague until I have time to do this right
IC: Soviet forces pushed forward, overrunning any Polish straggling units.
In Lwow and pursured as fast as possible around Wilno, destroying many slower units.

The Russians overall simply consolidtated and made some moderate gainst, content with eliminating Polish resistance

((Pending what the new France ever does - I guess I could rp them for a while - they won't be doing anything immediately))

The majority of the British Expeditionary force has arrived in northern France and is taking up positions and maneuvering for combad readiness.
The 2nd force is still be mobilized back home

The British government has taken into consideration the call for aid from Romania and may be moving troops to protect it sometime in the near future.

OOC: Tictus, check yout D/N thread

The Second British Expeditionary Force is now debarking in Calais and moving into positions along the German border. Preparations are now being made with the French government.

In addition, another force from Africa is being sent to Malta at this time.

(Im waiting for Polands response, but in Battle time, im still in the first three days of the attack... so by the time those forces have made it to my border, the problems with Poland will have been concluded.)

*bump*

as of now Spain has declared neutrality in the German-Polish war

as well, we ask for economic aid from all nations willing to send it.. as well we ask for aid in building more planes, ships, and tanks

OOC: crappy/late first post

Mao stepped out of his tiny hut into the morning light. He was the leader of the Communist party in China, but he was in hiding from the nationalists who ran the country, or what was left of it. He stretched in the cool morning light and thought about what he was required to do today. It was then that he heard a shrill yell, "For Chiang Kai-shek and Freedom!" Mao spun around and looked on with horror as the man jumped on him. An explosion rocked the small farming village and bathed the area in heat and light. The hut Mao had been staying in was on fire. By the time it was put out the knew Mao was dead, and with him so was their hopes of revolution.

Argentina wishes to declare its neutrality in the recent european war

Argentina has also finsiehd building the factory for its Hawker Hurracaines, and will asemble a first batch of 50 airplanes soon

A large squadron of the British navy, including elements of the Grand Battleship squadron at Scapa Flow are moving south to enter into the Meditereannean at this time. The fleet will carry a small infantry contingent.

Message to all countries

From: The Argentine Republic
To: Whomever it concerns
Topic: Carrier purchase

The Argentine Republic would like to purchase an Aircraft Carrier. While we realise that other nation may not be able to commission a top-of-the-line model, due to the war, we would apreciate if something along those lines was available. If not, we can take any reasonably-sized carrier (30-40 planes at least) built after 1925. We are able to pay for it, and its aircraft contingent. The carrier would be used in the defense of Argentine waters. We await, shoudl you choose to respond to this message, your reply.

As dusk settled over the streets of Bucharest, the British ambassador was just leaving for the night when something odd happene. A man dressend all in dark clothes was passing by, no suprise there, it was cold for late fall. But as the man was passing, he roughly bumped into the side of the ambasator, nearly knocking him down. Grunting an intelegable appology the man hurried off into the gathering shadows beyond.

The shock quickly subsided and the ambassador has just reached home. Reaching into hislong lapel he discovered a small, unremakable plain letter. Once inside he greeted his wife and proceeded to his study to try and discover the nature of this note. His suprise at it contents was palpable

To our allies of Great Britian and France

I hope this massage reaches friendly ears, so it is imperative that this message be delivered to both the leaders of France, Britian, and the Polish resistance. It has been decided the best way to protect the interests of both uor nations is to launch a preemptive strike against the expansionist threat of Germany. With the production of equipement and materiel in this country reaching all time highs, we exepect to be fully equiped for war by the end of January. With that in mind we are planning a massive invasion of southern Poland and Czechoslovakia. With our new tanks, aircraft, and paratrooper forces (given till spring will be a match to those of germany) we will launch an all out offensive. If the Polish resistance pin the germany infantry and the tanks to the north we can sweep (with the help of the british forces) north ourselves and flank the german forces. While us, poland and britian pinned the germans the french could attack the rear of germany, overwhleming the guard divisions with aims of taking out thier rural industiral base. Together we can end german agression once and for all, before he is allowed to proceed anyfarther.

Your friends

Signed King Carol II of Romania

As dusk settled over the streets of Bucharest, the British ambassador was just leaving for the night when something odd happene. A man dressend all in dark clothes was passing by, no suprise there, it was cold for late fall. But as the man was passing, he roughly bumped into the side of the ambasator, nearly knocking him down. Grunting an intelegable appology the man hurried off into the gathering shadows beyond.

The shock quickly subsided and the ambassador has just reached home. Reaching into hislong lapel he discovered a small, unremakable plain letter. Once inside he greeted his wife and proceeded to his study to try and discover the nature of this note. His suprise at it contents was palpable

To our allies of Great Britian and France

I hope this massage reaches friendly ears, so it is imperative that this message be delivered to both the leaders of France, Britian, and the Polish resistance. It has been decided the best way to protect the interests of both uor nations is to launch a preemptive strike against the expansionist threat of Germany. With the production of equipement and materiel in this country reaching all time highs, we exepect to be fully equiped for war by the end of January. With that in mind we are planning a massive invasion of southern Poland and Czechoslovakia. With our new tanks, aircraft, and paratrooper forces (given till spring will be a match to those of germany) we will launch an all out offensive. If the Polish resistance pin the germany infantry and the tanks to the north we can sweep (with the help of the british forces) north ourselves and flank the german forces. While us, poland and britian pinned the germans the french could attack the rear of germany, overwhleming the guard divisions with aims of taking out thier rural industiral base. Together we can end german agression once and for all, before he is allowed to proceed anyfarther.

Your friends

Signed King Carol II of Romania

This came as quite a shock to the British ministry locked away within their guarded walls north of London, but not an unpleasant one. With more allies, Britain did have more options...
Imediately, more troops were borded onto ships headed into the Mediterranean and all troops mobilizations were hurried.

A short message was encoded to the Romanians: "We will help you."

SIC:
To Winston Churchill
From: Benito Mussolini
Finally now you see the light. Finally you see the what Hitler is.

While our relations died when your nation chose neutrality when I wanted to wage war with Germany I am ready to rekindle those relations and support you against this man. It will be difficult after my nation has grown close to his, however if we work quickly I can turn his recent alliance with Russia against him and turn my people against his nation.

I would like to meet with you to discuss this in person. This message must not be leaked to he Germans.

Benito Mussolini
Il Duce
Italy

SIC:
To Winston Churchill
From: Benito Mussolini
Finally now you see the light. Finally you see the what Hitler is.

While our relations died when your nation chose neutrality when I wanted to wage war with Germany I am ready to rekindle those relations and support you against this man. It will be difficult after my nation has grown close to his, however if we work quickly I can turn his recent alliance with Russia against him and turn my people against his nation.

I would like to meet with you to discuss this in person. This message must not be leaked to he Germans.

Benito Mussolini
Il Duce
Italy

To Benito Muissolini
From Winston Churchill

I would be pleased to accept your offer and will meet you when and where you wish for just such a meeting. It is true that Germany has betrayed us all and we must work to stop its aggression. Hopefully stronger relations can be reestablished between our nations again.

Winston Churchill
Prime Minister
UK

bump...

bump...

eh, the game is dead, and I was pretty unavailable anyway very soon