NationStates Jolt Archive

Official News Report from the Allanean President

As now reported in this time-stamped video below, the famous rock start, Duff Tratain, has engineered repeated attacks on Allanean Freeman in the country of McKagan. Here are his direct words, threatening the life, liberty, and property of Allanean Freemen:

Listen you stupid fuck. I know you're a stupid redneck, but do you have no compassion for your countrymen that you're killing for absolutely nothing more than your stupid pride! I'm openly giving you a chance to save those pathetic service industry workers that are still within McKagan. You have 24 hours to make an international address stating that anarchy and hair grunge music have defeated your corporation. When 24 hours are up I will release this time stamped video to CSHR News. It'll play all around the world and prove you to be a fraud who cares about nothing more than self-pride. The pathetic service industry workers who are about to DIE because of your pride - along with their friends and family MAY not like that very much!

In an open message, Mr. Tratain made his message even more clear:

The evil redneck bunny menance has been knocked back so far in McKagan that it is hard for me not to declare victory! We still have work to do though. There's 100 stores left, everybody! They're just sitting there to try and keep me from saying I won. My goal has never been the complete destruction of the CBBC. It's been to destroy it IN MCKAGAN. As that date grows near - I feel the need to gloat just a bit. So... erm.... ha. Yeah - the bunny sucks. I'm going to win, you fucking redneck, cousin fucking fuckers!

This has been an official open message by this Mr. Tratain, in which he had all but openly called for violence against Allanean Freemen. The below is a call for all decent nations to join us in a crusade – a crusade to eliminate Tratain, the terrorists whom he directs, and, if the McKagan government stands in the way, that too.

As of now, Congress voted 5700-300 to send the First Force Projection Fleet in the direction of McKagan. We are calling on all allied nations to join forces with us in our hour of need.

To McKagan's government, we have this to say: step aside, and don't interfere with our purging of Tratain's minions, and no innocents will be hurt. Interfere, and we promise you will be hurt. However, we will be happy to end this if you arrest and turn over Tratain and his accomplices yourself.

To Tratain, we have only one sentence: You're screwed, hippie scum. We recommend you put your head between your legs and kiss your sorry, hippy, useless ass goodbye, because when the day is over and the dust settles I'll be fixing your skull to the hood of my Dodge.

Thank you all, Freemen.

Good night, and may God Bless Allanea.

OOC: Tag.

OOC: This is gettin' good. [TAG]

OOC: I am expressing interest, as the Mafia have an interest in helping their clients.

[OOC: Tag, and in a way, a message. I don't know if I have time to do a war right now. As Amestria can attest to - I've been having serious issues finding time to make a single post to have Tratain launch his final "push" type thing. I'll still do this RP - once I have time. However: I won't do it with a mass group of nations attacking McKagan because a rock-icon doesn't like fast food. Any RP I do will be BALANCED. Sorry for the inconvienence.]

[OOC: This is not about him not liking fast food, this is about him threatening to attack and kill Allaneans. Also you might notice nobody is ATTACKING you. We're basically being mean and threatening and trying to bully your government to turn him over. If that doesn't work, we can escalate from there, think Al-Quaeda/Afghanistan. Also, acts have consequences. Tratain could have went and blown up every single branch, and I wouldn't be able to do anything. But he had to send a videotaped threat to the CEO of CBBC, who naturally forwarded it to the government. And this kind of stuff has consequences.]

[OOC: This is my one post for the moment. I MAY be able to come back. I simply don't know now that my other RP that i've been planning for a while has started.]



[Open Message]

To: Allanean Government
From: McKagan Imperial Defense Department
[I]
We are alarmed at the blatant overplay on your part. The violence being undertaken on our own streets (as we previous stated,) has taken us completely by surprise. Our forces were simply not ready for such action. However, what you are asking is far too much. The McKagan government will NOT turn over Duff Tratain and his followers simply because they took advantage of their freedom of speech. McKagan culture is based around that central action. To betray it would be violence and civil war much greater than anything your nation could bring upon us.

At that end - we DO seek to end this peacefully. Allanea had no real ties to McKagan before the CBBC and the violence that Duff Tratain has called for has not spread outside McKagan. The CBBC is only LOSING money in McKagan. Could we not arrange a deal where the CBBC completely pulls out of McKagan and stops provoking the violence? McKagan will financially punish Duff Tratain. That would very likely end the violence all together.

There's also the matter of the very large naval armada heading towards McKagan. This blatant breach of a national identity will not be tolerated. If you wish to end this whole ordeal with peace you will order that fleet to stop or change its direction completely.

OOC: I think to turn this whole thing into a war is just over the top, ever thought of simply taking him out covert. In addition I can attest that Mckagan does not have the time for a war, he has covert and medium opperations and a diplomatic conference in three other countries at present.

[Open Message from Duff Tratain]

Why can't you fucking idiots just understand! My fucking message was trying to convince the CBBC that they could end all this! Then it got twisted by some warmonger and made into a declaration of war?! I can't take this! Just stop fighting, everyone! Forget your fucking pride and just END THIS!

[Open Message from Duff Tratain]

Why can't you fucking idiots just understand! My fucking message was trying to convince the CBBC that they could end all this! Then it got twisted by some warmonger and made into a declaration of war?! I can't take this! Just stop fighting, everyone! Forget your fucking pride and just END THIS!

[Open Message from Pundit Bill O'Rly]

Awww little boy, just found out words can carry weight? What a pathetic left-wing bastard.

[Open Message from Pundit Bill O'Rly]

Awww little boy, just found out words can carry weight? What a pathetic left-wing bastard.

[Open Message from Duff Tratain]

Do you honestly think I want to be this powerful! I'm not a power hungry moron like you. I wanted to make music and be an original person. Now I'm starting wars! Go fuck your cousin.

OOC: I also think the reasoning behind this thread is fairly shoddy, saying "well he can blow up every CBBC branch but to send a video tape, no..." Duff Tratain has issued all kinds of statements and his last one is what gets everyone all upset, that was the most toned down of them all!

OOC: Amestria, this is a turn-based game, McKagan can post in a month for all I care.

IC:

[Open Message From the Department of State]

Tratain says he meant peace. In the same way, we presume, that a bank robber means peace when he says 'give me your money and nobody will be hurt', and a rapist says 'don't move honey, it'll be over soon'. In the same way, then, we mean peace when we say: Give us Tratain and his buddies and no cities will be burned to the ground.


In other news, the Allanean Force Projection Fleet will be relegated to manoevers and patrol a full 20 miles outside the McKagan national waters. So far, no acts of war were committed against McKagan, despite any claims to the contrary.

OOC: I also think the reasoning behind this thread is fairly shoddy, saying "well he can blow up every CBBC branch but to send a video tape, no..." Duff Tratain has issued all kinds of statements and his last one is what gets everyone all upset, that was the most toned down of them all!

[OOC: Exactly. That was the first time he tried to STOP the violence! He was trying to put pressure on the CBBC to end the violence. Duff's first statement that got him involved was more threatening than that!]

In an announcment earlier today, Shogun Nakamura Himura Kenshin had this to say about the recent events involving Allanean citizens.

Our nation will back our allies, the Allaneans, to the ends of the Earth. Not one shall be harmed, or we shall grant them our full support in bringing those responsible down like the dogs they are.

Besides, the food's not that bad.

Rumor has it that super-secret elements of the rumored Black Knights are mobilizing in case they're needed.

Official Statement by the Shah of Parthia

Let it be known, that I, Shah Khosru III of Parthia, give my full support to the Allaneans in their quest to ensure justice is served upon those who cause harm on the citizens and property of other nations when their governments choose to not act in the name of justice. McKagan harbors the terrorist Duff Tratain, and Parthia has chosen to stand against this menace to humanity and the free market.

Therefore, the Shah too echoes the demands made by the Allanean government that Tratian either be turned over to justice, or the republic of McKagan will face irresistable force in our quest to prevent terrorism, whether it be directed against individuals or institutions.

Now, I have ordered the deployment of the 3rd Naval Task force, which will rendez-vous with tha Allanean force moving towards McKagan and help amplify and increase the force the nations supporting just and noble pursuits of tracking down terrorists bring upon those who harbor them.

-Shah Khosru III

IC:

[Open Message From the Department of State]

Tratain says he meant peace. In the same way, we presume, that a bank robber means peace when he says 'give me your money and nobody will be hurt', and a rapist says 'don't move honey, it'll be over soon'. In the same way, then, we mean peace when we say: Give us Tratain and his buddies and no cities will be burned to the ground.

[Response]

Do you realize you're asking us to hand over nearly 90 percent of our population between 14 and 30? According to the evidence you have, Tratain was attempting to end the violence. Our stance stands. We will not export McKagan citizens just for corporate pride when a peaceful solution is very well possible. To counter you fleet we are moving our own assets of equal strength to 10 miles inside our territorial water limit. Do not turn this into a bloodbath.

[OOC: It's already a 3 on 1 based off of a bad RP idea? No one else is siding against me until we figure this out. Kurt Cobain never started a world war because someone read his Journals.]

[OOC: Ok - I'm done.


I wasn't asked beforehand about this RP.
It's a very bad RP idea simply because the violence is all contained to two McKagan cities.
It's turning into a cheap dogpile already.
My real life is hectic enough and I have long running commitments to other RP's that would be severely influenced if I went ahead with a shoddy RP that came from nowhere.


In conclusion. I have no desire to complete this RP. Sorry Allanea - I really am. I love RP'ing with you and this is no hard feelings at all. I'd love to consider what we had going on the bunny thread - but this is simply too much. I hope no one is going to go all apeshit on me over this. It's how I feel: this came from nowhere.]

[OOC: It's already a 3 on 1 based off of a bad RP idea? No one else is siding against me until we figure this out. Kurt Cobain never started a world war because someone read his Journals.]

Clearly somebody doens't know. You see in 20 years the ethnic-religious tension will build to full-fledged Civil War in the United States. The entire coutnry will fall apart, and in a terrorist attack on the American Empire, Hollywood will be nuked. All of it will be traced back to Kurt Cobain's journal and the final piece wil be discovered in a cryptic statement about the "CBC". Finally in 2050 it'll all be clear, it was all orchestrated by the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation in revenge for years of media industry dominance by the american Hollywood.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/c8/Question_34.jpg

Official Response of the Allanean Government

Repeatedly, again and again, has Tratain called for acts of terrorism against Allanean Freemen. Not simply said 'Allaneans are evil' – but called to commit illegal acts of terror against Allanean Freemen, their property, their life and liberty. You have stood by and done nothing but denied Allanean Freemen their right to defend themselves, and forced them to rely on protection on a local corporation that has had allegedly lost heavy weapons and had them end up in terrorist hands. People died. Now, you and this Mr. Tratain are not responsible for their death? What travesty is this?


OOC: Observe, McKagan. There's no war, there's no dogpile, and as far as I'm concerned, no shot has been fired except by you. As far as I'm concerned, if you haven't sent this last video, I wouldn't have known about this ICly, unless my detectives would have turned something up. As far as I'm concerned, unless you do something BLAZINGLY stupid – like attack the fleet – which I know you won't – it isn't coming after you. Am I planning some form of shooting? Fuck yeah. I assure you that I am not planning a full scale war. You may now choose to continue this, or not, bring any friends you wish, or not.

Clearly somebody doens't know. You see in 20 years the ethnic-religious tension will build to full-fledged Civil War in the United States. The entire coutnry will fall apart, and in a terrorist attack on the American Empire, Hollywood will be nuked. All of it will be traced back to Kurt Cobain's journal and the final piece wil be discovered in a cryptic statement about the "CBC". Finally in 2050 it'll all be clear, it was all orchestrated by the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation in revenge for years of media industry dominance by the american Hollywood.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/c8/Question_34.jpg

[OOC: Since Kurt Cobain is my idol and all - I feel obligated to point out that he would probably have loved to see Hollywood nuked.]

OOC: Observe, McKagan. There's no war, there's no dogpile, and as far as I'm concerned, no shot has been fired except by you. As far as I'm concerned, if you haven't sent this last video, I wouldn't have known about this ICly, unless my detectives would have turned something up. As far as I'm concerned, unless you do something BLAZINGLY stupid – like attack the fleet – which I know you won't – it isn't coming after you. Am I planning some form of shooting? Fuck yeah. I assure you that I am not planning a full scale war. You may now choose to continue this, or not, bring any friends you wish, or not.

[OOC: You moved a FLEET against a pop icon? You're whole freaking out over this video is really pointless too. Duff has said worse than that on national TV! It's obvious to anyone that he was trying to end the fighting. I'm free and open to you sending some special forces to try and get Duff. But having this big fleet simply makes this bigger than I wanted it to be. I don't want to have a fleet sitting off my doorstep because someone who's popular doesn't like your fastfood. I won't do that RP.]

OOC: Can we take this to telegram?

[OOC: Since Kurt Cobain is my idol and all - I feel obligated to point out that he would probably have loved to see Hollywood nuked.]

OOC: I was right then. He was so close to Canada anyway.

Also Duff has advocated the killing of foreign nations and the destruction of property. There is free speech, but it doesn't protect the man screaming in a crowded theatre "Fire". It is probably best to prosecute him in your own terms and give him a show trial.

[OOC: You moved a FLEET against a pop icon? You're whole freaking out over this video is really pointless too. Duff has said worse than that on national TV! It's obvious to anyone that he was trying to end the fighting. I'm free and open to you sending some special forces to try and get Duff. But having this big fleet simply makes this bigger than I wanted it to be. I don't want to have a fleet sitting off my doorstep because someone who's popular doesn't like your fastfood. I won't do that RP.]
OOC:
He's fomented attacks against Allanean civilians while your government stood by and watched. Its more like extradition at the point of a sword, which is initially what Bush said to the Taliban, of course, we know what happened, but all Allanea really is trying to do here is twist your arm a bit into giving up those responsible for the attacks, not dogpile you in a war.

OOC:
He's fomented attacks against Allanean civilians while your government stood by and watched. Its more like extradition at the point of a sword, which is initially what Bush said to the Taliban, of course, we know what happened, but all Allanea really is trying to do here is twist your arm a bit into giving up those responsible for the attacks, not dogpile you in a war.

Allanea wants him and his "friends," which is a good portion of the population of McKagan. I will not take part in a RP blown so out of porportion like this. The post Allanea mentioned in this thread is nothing different than what Duff has been doing other than that he's offering peace.

He may say that all he's trying to do is extradite Duff - but that in itself is asking for war.

OOC: Just to point out Duff has commited no crimes in Allanean jurisdiction, so they have no legal right to extridite him. All his activities have been strictly confined to Mckagan, under Mckagan law. Concerning the Taliban, they were shelthering someone who launched attacks on American soil (New York and the African Embassys), not Afganistanian soil...big difference.

Basically - I don't want a war. I won't do a war based on this. You are all free to try and put together a special forces thing: That's all I do asides from the original thread. I've stated my reasons before.

OOC:

McKagan, technically, Allanea has every right to go to war with you, considering your government, by not doing anything to stop the artist from killing Allanean civilians, sanctioned the killings of the Allaneans.

Allanea, as Parthians said, is simply trying to twist your arm. You should know that actions have consequences. If you really knew Allanea, you should have known that this would have happened if you killed Allaneans.

YOu're acting very n00bish, really, by putting yourself in this situation and then bitching about it, considering it's YOUR fault.

Your peace offer was worthless, considering you didn't do anything to help out CBBC. Allanea is giving McKagan a peace offer that can work, and you're refusing. Anything that happens from here on out is your fault, not ours.

You should have been prepared for the consequences of your actions when you started this. Backing out now will only hurt your reputation as an RPer.

You don't want attacked? Give him up. Imprision him, take action. By not doing anything, you are sanctioning it, therefore the government is killing the Allaneans, which is an act of war.

OOC: Actually, all I want is Tratain and a few dozen of his close friends. And in fact, no, there has been cases of people being extradited for violations of US law that hasn't occured on US soil. Think of Lyndh. Or think of any US citizen that engages of sex tourism. But this is aside the point, because Nationstates has no body of interantional law. The point is, Allaneans want Tratain, either to be extradited, or to be killled in the most overkill fashion possible. Special forces would not do, besides you stated to me previously that all assassinations would fail. BTW, what success are my detectives having?

And, what Derscon said.

Your peace offer was worthless, considering you didn't do anything to help out CBBC.

It wasn't a PEACE offer. It was 'give the grungers what they want and they won't hurt you'.

Now, in every conflict Allanea has been in, it has engaged in overreaction, overkill, and overviolence.

McKagan has seen this first hand before.

I lob cruise missiles by the dozen at a single broadcast tower.

I use 140mm tank cannon against unarmored infantry.

I nuke rubber boats.

I did this time and time again. This is within the IC history and character of my nation. That's what Allanea does. I've started out a war, ICly, in the past, because 4 Allanean citizens were executed without trial. It was a far bigger war, with at least 20 nations in it, then what McKagan seem to think I'm starting - even though nobody has even deployed yet.

YOu're acting very n00bish, really, by putting yourself in this situation and then bitching about it, considering it's YOUR fault.

There is nothing n00bish about not wanting to participate in a war RP launched without his consultation over a minor matter (its not even Duffs actions that is the reason, its a video). Mckagan did not want a war concerning his grunger posts on the Bunny thread and at no point up to now has Allanean IC or OOC suggested that one would happen because of those posts.

You should have been prepared for the consequences of your actions when you started this. Backing out now will only hurt your reputation as an RPer.

Y'know what? You have NO AUTHORITY to judge me. This site has so many people who use the childish card of "omgz n1 wilz rp wit u1"

I don't CARE. You CANNOT force me into an RP that I have stated time and time again that I do not want to do.

I'm not going to be bullied over this.

Get over yourselves and leave me alone.

There is nothing n00bish about not wanting to participate in a war RP launched without his consultation over a minor matter (its not even Duffs actions that is the reason, its a video).

There's a wide difference between 'reason' and 'excuse'.

THe video is the excuse. Everything else that Tratain did before is a reason.

And frankly...

I see no war RP.

How about a bribe, the CBBC can offer a bribe to Duff and get him to shut up. Kids like those forget things quickly and wil soon be another issue.

I see no war RP.

Frankly - cut the bullshit. You're putting me in an impossible position where my only option is to fire on you or give up.

That's like me firing 1000 cruise missiles at your nation and telling you the war doesn't start unless you fire at the cruise missiles.

I see no war RP.

Theres a fleet off Mckagans national waters...that sounds rather war-ish. Bombing a nation is rather war-ish to...

How about a bribe, the CBBC can offer a bribe to Duff and get him to shut up. Kids like those forget things quickly and wil soon be another issue.

They tried that. Duff doesn't want money or fame. It's hard to bribe someone who has more than he wants.

Seek peace, we are playing an eternal game of detente. Go with my idea, let Duff accept the bribe under duress from the McKagan government and it'll all go away.

Force him. Threaten to give him away, don't actually do it, force him. It isn't black and white, this is moral ambiguity. It is for the good of the many that this man's rights are violated.

How about a bribe, the CBBC can offer a bribe to Duff and get him to shut up. Kids like those forget things quickly and wil soon be another issue.

Trying to bribe Duff was what caused him to go homocidial on the CBBC...

Seek peace, we are playing an eternal game of detente. Go with my idea, let Duff accept the bribe under duress from the McKagan government and it'll all go away.

Force him. Threaten to give him away, don't actually do it, force him. It isn't black and white, this is moral ambiguity. It is for the good of the many that this man's rights are violated.

I won't change one of my characters to make someone else happy.

If the government threatened Duff like that he'd just go public with it and start a war against the McKagan government.

Frankly - cut the bullshit. You're putting me in an impossible position where my only option is to fire on you or give up.

That's like me firing 1000 cruise missiles at your nation and telling you the war doesn't start unless you fire at the cruise missiles.

Lessee.

What could I do if I were you:

1. Do a trial with Tratain, rule him guilty, put him in prison. Then set him free once the Allneans are not looking.

2. Do a limited-scale war RP where the Allaneans use their fleet as a base for a special operations strike backed up with heavy artillery.

3. Extradite Tratain to a third country, see 1.

4. Have Tratain end his war on the bunny for the 'good of the nation' (you told me OOCly he's owning lots KSI stock, so much for not wanting money).

5. Have Tratain flee the country and show up in country X.

6.... insert option here.

Look, I would like to point out that Mckagans Duff posts got the CBBC thread out of limbo and made it more interesting/exciting, and this is were you all decide to take it, a war RP he does not want?

1. Do a trial with Tratain, rule him guilty, put him in prison. Then set him free once the Allneans are not looking.


Starts war between McKagan government and grungers.

2. Do a limited-scale war RP where the Allaneans use their fleet as a base for a special operations strike backed up with heavy artillery.

Equals McKagan enforcing policy of tactical nuclear ordnance against any encroaching fleet.

3. Extradite Tratain to a third country, see 1.

Spreads violence around globe. Tratain (even if knowing he wouldn't get shit done to him) wouldn't agree to it. He'd go public.

4. Have Tratain end his war on the bunny for the 'good of the nation'

Tratain is blowing the CBBC up "for the good of the nation." The CBBC isn't gaining anything at all by being in McKagan.

(you told me OOCly he's owning lots KSI stock, so much for not wanting money).

He's using the money he doesn't want for "the better good." Creating a privately funded army to defeat corporate enemy number 1.

5. Have Tratain flee the country and show up in country X.

Duff has everything under his control in McKagan. He wouldn't risk that.

I won't change one of my characters to make someone else happy.

Of course not. But you seem well inclined to make Allanea change his culture to make you happy.

Launch a PR campaign against Duff to turn public opinion on him.

Release info about his stock holdings
Accuse him of being a facist, compare him to Hitler in preserving the 'McKagan way'

Sorry McKagan, I think provoking CBBC and not expecting a response is just a bit n00bish don't you think?

Of course not. But you seem well inclined to make Allanea change his culture to make you happy.

No I don't. I've not asked him to change his culture once. This whole RP is being forced upon me. That's all i'm fighting: Not the aspects of the RP, but the RP itself.

Starts war between McKagan government and grungers.



Equals McKagan enforcing policy of tactical nuclear ordnance against any encroaching fleet.



Spreads violence around globe. Tratain (even if knowing he wouldn't get shit done to him) wouldn't agree to it. He'd go public.



Tratain is blowing the CBBC up "for the good of the nation." The CBBC isn't gaining anything at all by being in McKagan.



He's using the money he doesn't want for "the better good." Creating a privately funded army to defeat corporate enemy number 1.



Duff has everything under his control in McKagan. He wouldn't risk that.

Want me to come up with more options?

1. Fake Tratain's death, have him go into hiding and return later.

2. Hide him among the grangers.

See? The opportunities are endless.

Launch a PR campaign against Duff to turn public opinion on him.

The government overthrow the young generations opinion of their rock icon?

Read up on Kurt Cobain.



He'd admit to it and say he was using his powers to try and destroy the "system" from the inside. Then the grungers would hate the government for doing something against Duff.

[QUOTE]Accuse him of being a facist, compare him to Hitler in preserving the 'McKagan way'

He's not trying to preserve it. He's fighting FOR it. McKagan is highly corporate too. He's fighting for CHANGE.

Sorry McKagan, I think provoking CBBC and not expecting a response is just a bit n00bish don't you think?

I think it's a bit n00bish for people to act like nothing is fun on this website unless it turns into a World War.

Sorry McKagan, I think provoking CBBC and not expecting a response is just a bit n00bish don't you think?

He did expect a response, such as CBBC attempts to kill Tratain, kidnap him, or discredit him. He did not expect or agree to this whole thing turning into a war RP (which is what it is, give him to us or go to war).

Also, his CBBC posts were quite good, excellent RPing (very funny), and contributed positively to the CBBC thread (and got it moving again). There was nothing n00bish about any of it!

1. Fake Tratain's death, have him go into hiding and return later.


He'd just feel like he was being persecuted. Then he'd feel like he isn't able to fight against Corporate Enemy #1 while in hiding.

2. Hide him among the grangers.

I... don't get it.

See? The opportunities are endless.

You're still trying to force me to do something or be attacked.

No.

Also, his CBBC posts were quite good, excellent RPing (very funny), and contributed positively to the CBBC thread (and got it moving again). There was nothing n00bish about any of it!

It just seems that people are pretty immature about this. Nothing is expected to have substance. It has to be BIG ASS WAR or it doesn't work. Political science? Political power plays? Hell no! We want stuff to blow up!

I refuse to be part of that.

You're still trying to force me to do something or be attacked.

Way to call the kettle black, my friend.

It just seems that people are pretty immature about this. Nothing is expected to have substance. It has to be BIG ASS WAR or it doesn't work. Political science? Political power plays?

Not true at all. Political power play? That's what Allanea is doing. He's putting you in the same situation (virtually) you put Allanea in, albiet a bit more extreme. This is how Allanea is. You should have known that if you play with fire, expect to be burnt.

Again, the McKagan government sanctions these killings of Allaneans, right now. THat is reason to go to war. It is up to you to change that. Asking Allanea to back down is asking to change his entire culture.

Y'know what? I don't care. You can whine about this all you want. I told you why I'm not doing this RP.

You can hold onto "victory" and tell youself that it'll hurt my "reputation." That's a way to have an ego. I've been told that no one will want to RP with me 2 times before. I'm still here.

Go figure.

Bye.

I would like to point out Derscon that Mckagan did not have to do anything on the CBBC thread, he could have simply ignored it and thus ignored the CBBC having a pressence in his nation (if he did not comment the CBBC would have never been in his nation). But he decided he wanted to use it to explore one of his nations subcultures and one of his characters while shining light on Mckagans domestic situation (which he has seldom posted on in the past)... In other words contribute positively to the RP, which was about a multinational fast food giant.

His actions were strictly within that RP and at no point did Allanea say "you know this could lead to war" IC or OOC until now.

His actions were strictly within Mckagan/an exploration of Mckagan within in the boundries of a cultural RP. To quote Allanea's OOC "post your nations reaction to it." Mckagan posted his nations reaction to it, anarchist subcultural elements working for change led by a drugged up billionaire self-hating rockstar attack the CBBC branches within Mckagan. It was one reaction of out of over thirty (so far), and the most recent post on the CBBC thread (the final push so to speak) was supposed to be one of the last ones as he rapped up his involvement.

I would also like to point out that I think taking things in RPs to the extreme stiffles creativity like Mckagan showed with his grunger movement. It destroys subtilty and transforms RPing into a contest of who is the biggest. Many want to RP societies, people, and governments of complexity and not have the whole thing simplified by extremity.

Also, the arguement that it is not in Allaneas culture to do overkill in a manner that is covert/unofficial is entirely disingenous (overkill can be covert, the CBBC sent one thousand dectives to search for dirt on Duff, why could they not send 1000 hit men with enough fire power to level a small country and enough special forces training to kill a man with their thumb...they certainly have enough money). There have been many occasions when Allanea has been more then willing to do things by means other then threatening war (such as the Liberty Alliance or those various non-government paramilitary bragades that are secretly headquarted in Allanea). Allanea also has those covert prison breaking units... The cultural arguement for maximum force is nonsense. The Allanean government or the CBBC did not have to act in the ways Allanea has claimed they did.

It just seems that people are pretty immature about this. Nothing is expected to have substance. It has to be BIG ASS WAR or it doesn't work. Political science? Political power plays? Hell no! We want stuff to blow up!

I refuse to be part of that.

OOC:
It doesn't have to be a big ass war, It could be you simply arresting the party in question. If you are afraid to do that because it will create unrest then I think it indicates a problem with your government. If people break the law they need to be arrested, likewise of influence.

The Allanean government or the CBBC did not have to act in the ways Allanea has claimed they did.

...okay.

So observe this.

You receive a videotape threatening you or your employees with violence if things don't go someone's way. You... logically enough, forward this to law enforcement.

Now, I've listed 8 separate ways this could go from here withou listing a war. This in itself already means war isn't the only way, because I'm sure someone can come up with 183454 more ways.

For example, I could unload a truck full of explosives from one of the ships, drive it towards the nearest Tratain concert, and blow it up. Nothing says don't mess with the bunny like 2000 kilos of hexogene in the morning.

But this isn't the point.

The point is that there's no reason why this should be a war RP. Damn there are Tratain fans in Allanea, you could try using them to stop me.

But this isn't the point.

The point is that there's no reason why this should be a war RP.

I believe this current thread (which was made to be a war RP) is pretty much dead whatever decision is reached. A new one would probably have to be started.

In fact Allanea and Mckagan might as well tear down whats happened so far and rebuild with a consensious as to the scope of the conflict (three of Mckagans complaints, 1) no one had asked him anything about this before hand, 2) anything major would disrupt several other far older RPs he already has going, taking them in directions he does not want them to go and 3) a lack of time. All legitamate complaints).

And here is the new thread to discuss matters...

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=485184