NationStates Jolt Archive

OOC thread

The thread about the star destroyer got me thinking about numbers and different technologies. I have been think can ST or B5 technology compare to the giant ISDs and SSDs. Think about it can a 450 meter ship go against a 1500 meter ship brisling with weapons like the 6 heavy Turbolazers? Or can a photon torpedo(star trek) really hurt an ISD? Or stuff like that?

Library Tech, all the way ;)

Anyway, I generaly consider techs from different universes to be roughly equal. For instance, a dedicated high-end war ship from Star Trek would be roughly comprable to an ISD, weapons might be different, ST phasers being more powerful than SW turbolasers for instance (just my speculation, less weapons means more power can go to each one).
As for fighters...since ST only has shuttles, which would be owned by any SW fighters unless it was a single TIE Fighter running on one engine, meh :P

Size matters not!

Seriously, the larger spaceship isn't necessary technologically superior to smaller one. My own nation, for example, currently relies on relatively small ships (our 'huge' battleships are 'merely' 450 meters long), but Jurai has technologies vastly superior to those available in Star Wars (like Pocket Dimension technology, or Matter/Energy Transformation Arrangement, or recently invented Mass Distortion System), and so it is logical to assume that my shields and energy weapons are also vastly superior to those available in Star Wars, making my smaller spaceship equal, if not superior to Imperial-Class Star Destroyers.

In regard of various ‘cannon’ technologies, Babylon 5 human technologies are indeed inferior to those of Star Wars, but I’d say that capital ships of the ancient races like Minbari and Centauri would likewise be equal, if not superior to Imperial-Class Star Destroyers, even if they are smaller (I don’t remember if size of Minbarian or Centaurian capital ships was ever mentioned in Babylon 5).

I usually go along with the belief that B5 & ST are about even, but can be beaten (most times) by SW; and then SW & WH40k are about even. That being the main four core technologies that comprise the FT world here on NS. 'Bastardtech' as some call it, fits between SW & WH40k; a highly popular and growing form of tech.

But anyway, over all a larger ship means a few simple things when faced with a smaller ship: 1) more weapons, 2) likely to be able to take more damage due to larger space and less concentration of vital parts, 3) Big ship = bigger reactor = more power to certain weapons and shields.

I think the Shadow's warships in B5 would have the Imperial Star Destroyers in SW beat in any real engagment between the two. The Shadow Battlecrab would cut through their shielding and armor like a butter knife through butter…

OOC thread

The thread about the star destroyer got me thinking about numbers and different technologies. I have been think can ST or B5 technology compare to the giant ISDs and SSDs. Think about it can a 450 meter ship go against a 1500 meter ship brisling with weapons like the 6 heavy Turbolazers? Or can a photon torpedo(star trek) really hurt an ISD? Or stuff like that?
FYI, the USS Enterprise-E from Star Trek is 685.1 meters (2,248 ft) long and it has 16 type-XII phaser arrays, over 8 photon/quantum torpedo launchers and 10 shield generators

Photon Torpedos are actually matter/anti-matter weapons and it is said in one episode that it would only take a total of six torpedoes to destoy an entire city.

But anyway, over all a larger ship means a few simple things when faced with a smaller ship: 1) more weapons, 2) likely to be able to take more damage due to larger space and less concentration of vital parts, 3) Big ship = bigger reactor = more power to certain weapons and shields.

I’d agree to it when we talk about more or less the same technological level. But more advanced technology also means, more advanced reactors, which in turn lead to more numerous/powerful weapons and/or more powerful shields.

Also remember, when we talk about hundreds meters long spaceships, ship’s size isn’t that much of limitation of how many weapons the ship can have, it is weapons’ energy consumption, cost and mass (massive spaceships need more powerful engines to move them, which in turn leads to higher energy consumption) which limits number of weapons that can be put on a single spaceship. More advanced technologies will be able to provide more energy and firepower in smaller package, making the ships equal, if not superior to bigger but less advanced ones.

As for fighters...since ST only has shuttles, which would be owned by any SW fighters unless it was a single TIE Fighter running on one engine, meh :P
In Star Trek DS9 the Federation used used Peregrine-class attack fighters during the Dominion War, there are also fighters used by some of the alien races.
In the movie Insurrection Data flew a "mission scoutship" which could be classified as a fighter as well
But Phasers are easy to use against fast moving targets so fighters are not as effective as they are in the SW world.[/trekkie]

EDIT:The Bajorans, Romulans, Remans, Vulcans,Talaxians, the Federation, Orions, the Jem'Hadar and the Cardassians all used different types fighters, either on screen or mentioned in dialouge. One of the battles in DS9 featured the federation perigrinne-class attack fighter playing a critical role in the battle strategy.

In Star Trek DS9 the Federation used used Peregrine-class attack fighters during the Dominion War, there are also fighters used by some of the alien races.
In the movie Insurrection Data flew a "mission scoutship" which could be classified as a fighter as well
But Phasers are easy to use against fast moving targets so fighters are not as effective as they are in the SW world.[/trekkie]

What-ever, the massive amounts of Ties that could be sent against trekkie ships would overwhelm everything! AHAHAHAH![/ignorant and stuborn SW-fanatic]

But I believe that the edge, being fighters, that SW has over ST tech would be decisive. Anyway, I realise that the whole 'I'm bigger so I automatically win' doesn't work and sometimes a small ship can still kick the butt off an ISD...but it doesn't happen often.

http://memory-alpha.org/en/images/9/91/Operation_Return_1.jpg

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b184/Upum/Star%20Wars/attack.jpg

Pwned bitch! bahahahaha!

except mine is canon

except mine is canon

"Damn you, damn you the hell!"

...*runs back to the chalk board to think of another way to take over the world*

[/jk]

Photon Torpedos are actually matter/anti-matter weapons and it is said in one episode that it would only take a total of six torpedoes to destoy an entire city.

...But today's nukes can destroy entire cities as well! [/confusion]

and so that would explain why each photon torpedo is estimated at 65 megatons.

also a single nuke would probably not completely destroy a city like NYC, that would take multiple nukes as well.

Though you have to admit, P.M., that my pic looks a mighty bit more cooler than yours.

*goes into the star trek armada game and builds 40 galaxy class, 50 sovereign and 500 defiant class ships*

and so that would explain why each photon torpedo is estimated at 65 megatons.

also a single nuke would probably not completely destroy a city like NYC, that would take multiple nukes as well.

Yes, but the source of my confusion is that if our nukes are around as powerful as photon torpedoes, wouldn't it be more expedient to use nukes on planetary targets?

maybe, but photon torpedos are good against ships so they carry them anyway, they wouldn't be used on a mission for planetary bombardment if other ordance is avaiable, but to be versaitlie it seems the photon torps are prefered for planetary bobmardment to the more powerful quntum torpedos, and the extremly more powerful tri-cobalt device.

but for the record the largest nuke was only 50 mega ton, and most deployed nukes today are not even 1 megton

Lasers are two generations behind phasers. Phased energy beam. Phasers are directed particle weapons with a controllable charge. Lasers are completely ineffective against star trek shields if you watch the idiotic show. It would be like using a light pen against a battle ship.

Matter/Antimatter weapons are more advanced and dangerous than nuclear weapons. Right now, we can't produce antimatter in great enough quantity to make anything approaching to an antimatter weapon. Antimatter costs $20 million dollars a gram. The concentrated power of an antimatter weapon would destroy almost anything described in the nationstates universe. They must be using very small torpedos. Go back two generations nuclear, then fusion, then antimatter. This is more advanced than an antimatter weapon. Using nukes would be like throwing large boulders with a catapult against a modern battleship. I think the value of a photon torpedo hit is 17 megatons focused in a very small area going at speeds faster than light. Faster than light impacts would seriously increase the damage done. I seriously doubt most nationstates shields would be able to take this.

Star trek has matter transmitters something so far beyond anything in this game, it is ridiculous.

B5 is far behind star trek. B5 technology has to jump gates and does not have warp engine technology. They are using rail guns something buildable in the 21st centuy, as well as regular missiles very antiquated in star trek, and plasma weapons-- also 21st century technology. Star trek takes place after B5 I think. B5 also does not have matter transmitters.

certian high powered lasers do work against trek shields, something like a modern day THEL would be worthless but a high powered laser turret feeding off of a fusion generator would


A standard photon torpedo holds 1.5 kilograms of small anti-deuterium pellets and 1.5 kilograms of deuterium suspended in a magnetic field.The yield can be adjusted by changing the number of pellets.

the actual megaton value of a photon torpedo has not been confirmed.

Lasers are two generations behind phasers. Phased energy beam. Phasers are directed particle weapons with a controllable charge. Lasers are completely ineffective against star trek shields if you watch the idiotic show. It would be like using a light pen against a battle ship.

*imagines the effects of an SW Ion Cannon against an ST ship*
*big grin*
Unless the Feddies recalibrate their shields to stop ion blasts, leaving them open to the turbolasers and assorted bombs of the SW fellows.
Besides, while lasers might be innefective, turbo lasers are significantly more powerful than regular lasers. In Expanded Universe they have varied effects as planetary bombardment weapons, ranging from blowing up entire cities to crushing a block or two. Regardless, they make impressive craters.
Plus, SW has the Force. If Darth Vader happens to be on the ship they attack, he just causes the ST commanders brain to implode ;)

I guess ST has one big advantge matter transportation. other than that from what we have been saying SW beats anything right? Also I found this site

http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/Essays/FiveMinutes.html

that site is grossly inaccurate


If you think about it, The Galactic Empire(SW) are Bad Guys and the Federation (ST) are the good guys, the federation will always win. :p

If you think about it, The Galactic Empire(SW) are Bad Guys and the Federation (ST) are the good guys, the federation will always win. :p

*chokes on Coke that he was just drinking and falls out of the computer chair.*

Well there are two things that are irritate me about Star Trek.

Firstly, once the shields of any enemy ship are down, you can teleport. So why continue flying about trying shoot your enemy when you could just teleport several nuclear warheads and a detonator aboard it?

Secondly, according to Einstein, lightspeed travel is impossible. Enough said. Same for Star Wars.

that site is grossly inaccurate


If you think about it, The Galactic Empire(SW) are Bad Guys and the Federation (ST) are the good guys, the federation will always win. :p


<scratches head in confusion>
Bad guys win all the time. It is just that good guys lose sometimes. Eventually all will Trancend such petty debates between Light and Dark. The SW tech and Star Trek tech are not mutually and exclusively stronger than the other. You may just consider that the SWverse and the STverse are at different stages of evolution. There are some in each that could destroy the other.

However, the main ST Federation is perhaps outclassed by the Galactic Empire. The Future Federation that we see in temporal incursions gould probably be more than equal to the Republic. It is all a matter of scale.

<grins>
'Sides a good RPer would try to limit their own godmod wankery. It is fun sure but jerking off will only get you so far. A group RP requires that you make allowances for the less well endowed "little guys":p :rolleyes: :D

Besides there are Plenty of Other Verses out there...Foundation, Galactic Uplift, Marvel, DC Comics, etc...Just have to remember to "play fair" when you are "playing dirty":D

<scratches head in confusion>
Bad guys win all the time. It is just that good guys lose sometimes.
You never saw the star wars sixogy or w/e nor have you seen any star trek movies have you? ...in hollywood the good guys always win, duh

Well there are two things that are irritate me about Star Trek.

Firstly, once the shields of any enemy ship are down, you can teleport. So why continue flying about trying shoot your enemy when you could just teleport several nuclear warheads and a detonator aboard it?

Secondly, according to Einstein, lightspeed travel is impossible. Enough said. Same for Star Wars.
No idea for number one.

Number two is explained by the fact that I think ST uses space-warping technology to travel FTL, and Star Wars creates a portal to another dimension. ST also makes use of natural wormholes (see DS9)
Besides, Im a fan of the theory that while Einstein was smart, we has also from an era when computers took up entire buildings and could do little more than some fairly basic math. IE: We know things now that Einstien could not even concieve of, and should take that into account.

Klingon and Romulan disruptor technology had far greater range than the original photon torpedos and phasers at least according to the game. It would have been a standoff war with the Romularns slowly decimating the federation until they surrendered or became a vassal state controlled by the Klingons. The only way to stay alive would have been to pit the Romulans and Klingons against each other... diplomacy and subterfuge.

You never saw the star wars sixogy or w/e nor have you seen any star trek movies have you? ...in hollywood the good guys always win, duh
*points to Braveheart and Starship Troopers*

Well, it depends on who you call the 'good guys' in the last one, I personally was rooting for the bugs ;)

In all fairness I knew nothing of the space warping tech or wormholes. *grins*

First point is still valid though! *grins*

*points to Braveheart and Starship Troopers*

Well, it depends on who you call the 'good guys' in the last one, I personally was rooting for the bugs ;)
but the Starship Troopers won -_-

and Braveheart was historical :rolleyes:

Ah...he is of the Upliftverse's Tandu...they superficially resemble said "Bugs" hence his sympathetic response to a fellow arthropod. The Galactic tech of the Upliftverse is also on par and perhaps exceeds that of the main SW and ST universes...just goes to show.

It is all realitive.:p :D