NationStates Jolt Archive

Ok this may belong here or not, but has anyone noticed that alot of players in the International forum have no idea how politics or history works? I mean some of them ahve excellent ideas on new twists, but they do many fo pa of role playing.

Like OOC and IC. Many don't see a problem of changing between the two. If you make me mad OOC, I do something IC. Last time I checked that was a MAJOR MAJOR no no. Also the fact that many try to play down or work against a person OOCly, and then transfer it to IC, using the prior knowledge as an excuse. Or the problem of people ganging up with no actual rational.

Or another one, I know it's a big list. Has anyone noticed some mods using their place to simply write a story and force the players towards it through subterfuge. Doesn't that get rid of the whole point? Yes this is a rather spurious thing, but I find it full of pet peeves. And a constant in the International Feud. A major problem that makes role playing not very fun. Which is what it's for I gather. Just a general statement, and what do you think.

Or, you know, you could have posted in the proper forum (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/forumdisplay.php?f=1234).

Well I had no idea. Besides this is the place it happens IC, thought I'd move it to an OOC area.

You are right about a lot of things. It is frustrating when somebody doesn't know shit about those topics and when they somehow have these Ouber weapons and act like god. Happen to me once and he was kicked from the thread. Although it can be frustrating at times if you get good Rp'ers that know a lot or at least something about military hardware, politics and other topics then it can be fun. At least thats how its been going for me so far.

Well tell me where, because I am ending up with people who think that it's perfectly normal for a Japanese and Korean person to sign an Alliance against Zimbabwe in the early 20th century. And then say that it's completely normal because Zimbabwe was becoming to powerful based on knowledge that they couldn't possibly know. Where are these good RPers?

I just finished scolding some nations who have made about 10 threads all warring on eachother with one sentence RPs saying they send 'a million troops and 10,000 bombers'. Finding a good RP is guess and check. Ustia and I hooked up for a pretty good RP out of good luck.

I'm always stumbling on n00b threads claiming that their 5 million pop nation has a 3 million man army with noooks. :(

You do relise that the whole point of roleplaying different time periods like that is to do it in your own way not the way it turned out, unless your trying to keep it historicly accarute because if thats the case there either on drugs or completely retarded. Plus I don't usually do real life roleplaying, I usually roleplay as my own nation in the NS world not RL. It's much better and funnier that way.

And what RP is that now? ANd my problem isn't with made up country RP's, it's with those who are doing alternate history and completely ignore the culture of the time. I mean an alternate history for Rome doesn't mean that ROman culture makes this drastic change all of a sudden to fit a 21st century mindset. And also racism works for and against the country that has it. Not just for it. If you don't help me because you think I am nothing, means you will also not help someone fighting me because then what are they to need help to fight an inferior being. But no they only use it with one edge when it's a double edged sword.

ANd no I realize it's alternative. THe problem is that people go completely off the wall. At the eve of WWI France signing an alliance with Germany is impossible. Doing things different and totally screwing with how they thought makes playing that country totally meaningless. Play as your country in a WWI type setting if you are going to do that. BUt if you play real nations then part of the fun is the limitations those nations give. If you completely go against it, you've defeated the purpose.

Grrr...I hate nOObs who somehow conscript 75% pf their pop., really your standing army should be no more than 3% of your pop.

Grrr...I hate nOObs who somehow conscript 75% pf their pop., really your standing army should be no more than 3% of your pop.
Ooh, can I beat this dead horse too? :rolleyes:

Monkey Fights! Its been awhile. Yeah we had a pretty good RP but short. It was called the Battle for Lordis and I think we won, didn't we? Its kind of hard to say considering we did drive Veragon off the island but it was destroyed by a nuclear bomb. Anyways Monkey Fights is right about being lucky. Thats why you check out the thread first before joining but I did say before I have had good luck when it comes to threads but I guess acronding to this thread you've had super bad luck.

Grrr...I hate nOObs who somehow conscript 75% pf their pop., really your standing army should be no more than 3% of your pop.

Not quite right, according to the NS stickies (found in the NS forum the one above II) state that although there is not an official limit (there are but they vary way too much) you should follow certain rules, one of these rules stated that a new country could have up to 5% (if it were surrounded by enemies) and a large nation 2% (if it too was facing a plethora of enemies) though you also have to take into account budget, so an official number is way too difficult to pin on everyone.

fo pa

Faux pas.

I agree with the OP. NS roleplay has taken a swandive in the past year. Personally, I think it has to do with the inevitable flux of new players, while lacking the older, more experienced generation, to bitch-slap them into line long enough to learn proper RP etiquette.

Solution? Pogrom.

Not quite right, according to the NS stickies (found in the NS forum the one above II) state that although there is not an official limit (there are but they vary way too much) you should follow certain rules, one of these rules stated that a new country could have up to 5% (if it were surrounded by enemies) and a large nation 2% (if it too was facing a plethora of enemies) though you also have to take into account budget, so an official number is way too difficult to pin on everyone.
hehe, everyone over 18 (with few exceptions, mainly religous) in my country is in the National Defence Force (like Switzerland) whcih emans that I have hudnreds of millions of peopel at my disposal to defend the Motherland

my standign army is 7 million, plus 500,000 men in the Foreign Legion, and 1 million in the Jamillian Army (he is too poor to have hsi own, so I train it for him and I'm allowed to use it except when he is at war)

Solution? Pogrom.

I like the way you think, man.

What does that mean again?

hehe, everyone over 18 (with few exceptions, mainly religous) in my country is in the National Defence Force (like Switzerland) whcih emans that I have hudnreds of millions of peopel at my disposal to defend the Motherland

Not quite, see you couldn't use all these millions in an invasion cos the logistics would decapitate you, but you could supply them with a gun, bullets and send them packing in your own country, they'd be able to feed themselves pretty well so no real need for logistics, but trouble with such a large army is they'll be weak to bombing runs, better off with guerilla warfare.

Not quite, see you couldn't use all these millions in an invasion cos the logistics would decapitate you, but you could supply them with a gun, bullets and send them packing in your own country
Hence "defend the motherland"...

What does that mean again?

A massacre of a certain group. Much like genocide. I think Pantera and I are thinking the same 'Pogrom'. If so, then he could be talking about a genocide against new players.

Grrr...I hate nOObs who somehow conscript 75% pf their pop., really your standing army should be no more than 3% of your pop.

Robonic you don't know how right you are my friend.

Wooshaba']Robonic you don't know how right you are my friend.

It all depend on whether your country handle it. For optimal military and economic performance a 5% army is recommended at most.

Well this was orignally for the historical alternative thread, but I suppose this goes into the heart of the issues.

It all depend on whether your country handle it. For optimal military and economic performance a 5% army is recommended at most.

Anywhere from 3% to 6% of your population is reasonable depending on your type of government. 70% however is completely unreasonable.

Wooshaba']Anywhere from 3% to 6% of your population is reasonable depending on your type of government. 70% however is completely unreasonable.

Indeed. Unless you're role-playing nomads with AK-47s.

Most nations, most of the time, should not have even 1% of their population under arms, and should consider that they're likely to have a draft in place if they've even that many. I don't have a problem with nations having four, five percent in the military, so long as they can justifiy it. Not just by making up nonsense about their economy, and claiming that everyone loves the Dear Leader, but by actually backing-up those claims in some sort of established RP history and creating a sufficiently rich context. Everyone running around with 5% in the army just because it's an unwritten rule that they 'can', that is really lame.

However, to the original poster, I think that you're seeing much to narrow a picture of NS RP. If people want to have France associated with the Central Powers, they can jolly well do it. It's not like there'd be any love lost with Britain, after centuries of war, or even Russia, after that nation's original Patriotic War (ref. Napoleon).

People should* build as much depth and have events supporting events, or situations supporting trends, or whatever else, but, if they do so, they can have any end result they please- it's their nation, and free-form RP.


*Should, but don't have to- it doesn't stop the rest of us doing things better if we want/are able to.

Indeed. Unless you're role-playing nomads with AK-47s.

I can't see how nomads would get tens of dollars per every head of the population, just for guns, before ammo and transport, and... yeah, 70% would be daft for cavemen with fire-hardened spears.

THe problem that gives is the linear format it gives. People work OOC to then screw a single person and eventually it defeats the purpose of the RP and becomes a three person storyline. THat's the major problem.

I can't see how nomads would get tens of dollars per every head of the population, just for guns, before ammo and transport, and... yeah, 70% would be daft for cavemen with fire-hardened spears.

Raids on more 'civilized' nations. Sell the unneeded resources (or possibly slaves) on black market or even through corporate routes. The largeer the number of people involved, the larger the possible operations, the larger the success.

[OOC: Erm, aren't newbs essentially the future of NationStates, Pantera? And there is a difference between a newb and a n00b. A newb is someone that is new to the game but makes an effort to learn about it. A n00b is someone, regardless of age and duration of stay on NationStates, someone that constantly godmodes, spams and makes virtually no effort to try and learn about how the game works.

I mean Pantera, look at your good old friend Automagfreek - his posts weren't the fine quality ones you all see him churning out from the very beginning of his time on NS, wasn't it? Writers are made, not born. Besides, it isn't always neccessary to pull an 'Operation: Righteous Smackdown' like Melkor Unchained and a whole coalition of nation-states did with Sigma Octavus, you can always do it the polite way via OOC courtesy and explaining highly-detailed-and-easy-to-understand info to the individual.

And before some inquistive person asks, no, my join date is correct. I am a June 2005 nation (soon to be celebrating my first anniversary, yay for me!), I just know this info by searching into the deep history of the forums and checking out NSWiki.]

Grrr...I hate nOObs who somehow conscript 75% pf their pop., really your standing army should be no more than 3% of your pop.

I simply wanted to point out one tiny flaw in that remark. My nation was apart of Kraven onec, and got exterminated--that leaves a definate psycological effect. Paranoia over Kraven is high in my land and fear of another extermination leads to me recruting 5% of my people into the armed forces. Most are on the reserve--but still.

OOC:

5%, well, egad that's big. But that's total military personnel right? Not front line troops which should be quite a bit smaller. Can anyone realistically expect my nation with a pop over 7 billion (perhaps I should just pick a cap and stay with that) to have a standing military of over 350 million? That's more than the entire population of the United States and France combined.

How do you cope RP-wise with the enormously rapid population growth that NS gives? I am a very new nation but my population is already double that of the UK!

One of the bigger issues is the very nature of NS. A single nation can have 7 billion people. These huge numbers allow some people to create these doomsday armies and proceed to rape the hell out of the little guys. It sucks getting pwnd by a guy who doesnt even know Navy or Air Force ranks, let alone how fast a carrier can go, or how long the service life of a rifle is.

5%, well, egad that's big. But that's total military personnel right? Not front line troops which should be quite a bit smaller. Can anyone realistically expect my nation with a pop over 7 billion (perhaps I should just pick a cap and stay with that) to have a standing military of over 350 million? That's more than the entire population of the United States and France combined.

Never. I have to cut that 5% down in many halves to cout for logistics, administration, command, and the other things. All in all, for each branch I have around 22 million to us. In my homeland, at any one time only 4 million troops are standing--mainly in bases doing nothing but training. I could activate 8 million men in Home Defense Districts, but that would take some time to activate 8 million men. Reserves also don't have nearly as good equipment as the standing army--for economic purposes. 22 Million for my navy is excessive--but I have a huge logistical force taking up most of those numbers. Maybe 4 million in total on my ships (that includes marines for raiding). My Air Force, is again, mainly maintenance and logistics, with only a fraction of that 22 million being activate pilots.

Now you ask--I cut my men in half already, why would I continue to add logistical troops. Due in part because my men can get supplies to almost any location--because its basically a walking army with supplies. Needless to say, I think logistics are very important. Administration is also very large--allowing for smooth transition of orders between commands and thats very manpower consuming. Not to mention I have to cut some men for vast training programs.

I see very good points, I'll work on improving my own stuff and what I do considering certain issues with my nation and how I'm also roleplaying the war I currently have.

I enjoyed these posts in the thread. Very eye opening for a "newb" like me, so I understand moreso how things work.

As a long time RP'er, I understand the problems many face. I remember when I was a newbie, I sucked royally at RP. I guess, when you start, no one expects you to be the greatest thing since sliced bread. In fact, most of the people I've come across have taught me something new. Chron, for example. He and I don't see eye to eye, but I respect his ability, and he's taught me to write slightly differently as well, even if he doesn't realise it.

On the subject at hand, I use National Service, but that's only for two years. In this manner, although I have a standing military force (please note, I deem standing as including all the logistical support) of some 4.5-5%, I can rapidly turn my nation to a war effort. However, I find it unnecceserry (sp? Sorry, it's bad) to bump my population, especially as I normally play FT, and I normally never have to alter the military. Also, I've never felt the need to invade people, or attack for no reason.

OOC:

5%, well, egad that's big. But that's total military personnel right? Not front line troops which should be quite a bit smaller. Can anyone realistically expect my nation with a pop over 7 billion (perhaps I should just pick a cap and stay with that) to have a standing military of over 350 million? That's more than the entire population of the United States and France combined.
If you find a way to justify your $120 trillion military budget IC without ending up with no economy whatsoever or anything, yes, you conceivably could. Just remind me to keep my more prosperous borders open for your rebelling citizens once they have insufficient food, shelter, clothing, and they have to join the military. :p

If you find a way to justify your $120 trillion military budget IC without ending up with no economy whatsoever or anything, yes, you conceivably could. Just remind me to keep my more prosperous borders open for your rebelling citizens once they have insufficient food, shelter, clothing, and they have to join the military. :p

Hence why I have my military at 1% and the reserves at 0.5%. And my combat troops tend to be a fraction of what you see. I go overboard on logistics perhaps, but I have a support ratio of at least 1:5 to 1:10 (in some cases more). So....

7 billion * 0.01 = 70 million
70 million/10 = 7 million front line (all branches; army, navy, airforce, space, etc...)

That gives you a rough idea as far as size. As well, I used to be a big fan of calculators, but am becoming less enthusiastic about them. I've decided to fix my tax rate at about 60% and use a GNP per capita of about 34000 (or some other figure that I can justify. 34000 is thirdgeek, Sunset has 13600, CSJ in one thread uses 50000). I keep the same percentages as far as government budget break down.

Therefore:

7 billion * 34000 = 238 000 000 000 000
238000000000000 * 0.6 = 142800000000000
142800000000000 *0.48 (my defense budget percentage) = 68 544 000 000 000

So, wheee. 68.5 trillion for defense.

68.5 trillion / 70 million total personnel = 979 200/military personnel. Which translates into me being able to afford the latest toys and probably more than most other nations. Probably.

I do apologize for the stats, but it's the only way I can keep it straight without conjuring up things. It's also another reason why I wonder how nations can afford zillion of front-line troops and superdreadnaughts coming out of their ears when they are a fraction of my size. Dunno.

I do apologize for the stats, but it's the only way I can keep it straight without conjuring up things. It's also another reason why I wonder how nations can afford zillion of front-line troops and superdreadnaughts coming out of their ears when they are a fraction of my size. Dunno.

That's called bumping your population and stats, whilst keeping the balance of percentages the same in an attempt to justify it. It's done to try and compete with the 'big boys and girls'. I disapprove of it, but it seems to be spreading.

I see that this is an experienced NS Rper's thread. I was wondering what you guys thought of my thread: http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=486122. I like to think of myself as a "newb", so I am seeking to improve. Should I RP my secession from the US? Also, suggestions?

How do you cope RP-wise with the enormously rapid population growth that NS gives? I am a very new nation but my population is already double that of the UK!

Some nations have predeteremined populations in the game that they prefer to use. For example, I have 3.5 billion (give or take) in NationStates stats, but my country holds an actual number of 10-12 million Jenrakians and a couple hundred million slaves.

All in all my nation's entire empire reaches to about 990 million, though it is by no means 3.6 billion. It stays like that in an RP.

I see that this is an experienced NS Rper's thread. I was wondering what you guys thought of my thread: http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=486122. I like to think of myself as a "newb", so I am seeking to improve. Should I RP my secession from the US? Also, suggestions?

I suggest more in-depth RP. How did you succeed? What problems did you face? Why did you turn into the system of government you became?

I suggest more in-depth RP. How did you succeed? What problems did you face? Why did you turn into the system of government you became?

Seconded.

I've decided, to illustrate the points regarding military and population, I will post my own stats.

I've made the decision to reduce the standing power, which in my mind includes all logistics, to 2.5% of total population. Thus:

4,503,000,000/100 = 45,030,000

Ans x 2.5 = 112,575,000

This is total military strength, including all Army, Navy and Air Force units (as an FT nation, Navy is classed as spacefleets.)

The distribution is: 50% Navy, 30% Army, 20% Air Force.

Thus, the serving numbers in each branch are:

Navy = 56,287,500
Army = 33,772,500
Air Force = 22,515,000

Given that the total spending on the military is $13,597,578,417,897 to the nearest whole number (according to NSEconomy), it follows that each individual should have:

Defence Budget/Serving Force = 13,597,578,417,897/112,575,000

= $120,787 to the nearest whole number.

Thus, I believe I am justified in being able to afford high-tech weapons, starships, and the like, as it is highly unlikely that this much will be spent on a single man or woman in any branch, irregardless of their profession.

Hmmm.. I'll do a rough estimate of my navy...

Let's say.. 250,000 per battlegroup that are shipboard... x18.. 4.5 million, factor in logistics.. 10:1 ratio that's 45 million employed in the Navy. Round that off with stuff like R+D, eval, strategic command etc, lets make that 50 million. Including national guard and reserves.. army maybe 50 million, airforce alot less, say 5 million.. 105 million, thats 1.7% of my nation in the armed forces.

And yet I still mantain the largest navy in the world. Cool.

EDIT: add 30 million for coastguard, makes 2.2%.

One of the bigger issues is the very nature of NS. A single nation can have 7 billion people. These huge numbers allow some people to create these doomsday armies and proceed to rape the hell out of the little guys. It sucks getting pwnd by a guy who doesnt even know Navy or Air Force ranks, let alone how fast a carrier can go, or how long the service life of a rifle is.
btw, how long is the service life of a rifle? Wouldn't it vary with different rifles? Wouldn't it vary with amount of use, and care? I figure the service life of an M-16 in the hands of an Afghan nomad would be shorter than the life of an AK-47 in the hands of a trained soldier from any halfway civilised army.

Seconded.

I've decided, to illustrate the points regarding military and population, I will post my own stats.

I've made the decision to reduce the standing power, which in my mind includes all logistics, to 2.5% of total population. Thus:

4,503,000,000/100 = 45,030,000

Ans x 2.5 = 112,575,000

This is total military strength, including all Army, Navy and Air Force units (as an FT nation, Navy is classed as spacefleets.)

The distribution is: 50% Navy, 30% Army, 20% Air Force.

Thus, the serving numbers in each branch are:

Navy = 56,287,500
Army = 33,772,500
Air Force = 22,515,000

Given that the total spending on the military is $13,597,578,417,897 to the nearest whole number (according to NSEconomy), it follows that each individual should have:

Defence Budget/Serving Force = 13,597,578,417,897/112,575,000

= $120,787 to the nearest whole number.

Thus, I believe I am justified in being able to afford high-tech weapons, starships, and the like, as it is highly unlikely that this much will be spent on a single man or woman in any branch, irregardless of their profession.

But your numbers, if I'm reading this correctly, for each branch does include your logistics. So, your frontline is about a tenth of your numbers (i.e. 33 million in the army is 3 million front line combat troops). I'm assuming 1:10 combat support ratio.

I think you will be surprised at how much is actually spent per soldier, actually. Take a look here (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=297064) to see where I'm coming from. And once you start throwing in starships, I would think that the cost per soldier would be quite high, although I can't say what the threshold would be - if one is inclined to do the math.

But your numbers, if I'm reading this correctly, for each branch does include your logistics. So, your frontline is about a tenth of your numbers (i.e. 33 million in the army is 3 million front line combat troops). I'm assuming 1:10 combat support ratio.

I think you will be surprised at how much is actually spent per soldier, actually. Take a look here (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=297064) to see where I'm coming from. And once you start throwing in starships, I would think that the cost per soldier would be quite high, although I can't say what the threshold would be - if one is inclined to do the math.

Hmm, I guess you're right. And you're about right on the combat support ratio. I'm not too inclined to do the math right now... reciprocal trignometry is death. Sec, Cosec and Cot... gah. If anyone here understands these terms, you will know the horror!

How do you cope RP-wise with the enormously rapid population growth that NS gives? I am a very new nation but my population is already double that of the UK!

My population is over 300 million, which is way too large for a terrorist group (which is what the Razatians really are). So, I've decided that though the population of the whole country is huge, the Razatians are merely the strongest faction in the country, and their numbers are probably 70-80 million (still big for a bunch of terrorists, but better than 300M).

Hmm, I guess you're right. And you're about right on the combat support ratio. I'm not too inclined to do the math right now... reciprocal trignometry is death. Sec, Cosec and Cot... gah. If anyone here understands these terms, you will know the horror!

I think it's Cosin, Secosant and Cotang...

...I could be thinking of the wrong trigonometry, though.

I think it's Cosin, Secosant and Cotang...

...I could be thinking of the wrong trigonometry, though.

No, I'm thinking of 1/sinX = cosecX,
1/cosX = secX and

1/tanX = 1/sinX/cosX = cosX/sinX = cotX

No, I'm thinking of 1/sinX = cosecX,
1/cosX = secX and

1/tanX = 1/sinX/cosX = cosX/sinX = cotX

Ah, my mistake then.

Sorry, we've been moving off topic.

Coming back onto topic... someone.