NationStates Jolt Archive

Eldtonia is searching for a new MBT. Our aged and ragged fleet of M-60A3 MBT's is at the end of its long rope. Of the 5000 units our nation has , only 1500 are operational at any given point. The Senate has voted that it is a better use of taxpayers money to do a cumulitive upgrade of the nations Tank force. The Requirements are:
-105mm Main gun
-Under 65t
-Capable of 30 MPH Cross country, 50 MPH on roads
-400 Mile Range
-Minimum of 38 rounds of Ammunition sortage internaly
-Explosive Reactive Armor

Eldtonia will supply fire control systems and communications.

Eldtonia is searching for a new MBT. Our aged and ragged fleet of M-60A3 MBT's is at the end of its long rope. Of the 5000 units our nation has , only 1500 are operational at any given point. The Senate has voted that it is a better use of taxpayers money to do a cumulitive upgrade of the nations Tank force. The Requirements are:
-105mm Main gun
-Under 65t
-Capable of 30 MPH Cross country, 50 MPH on roads
-400 Mile Range
-Minimum of 38 rounds of Ammunition sortage internaly
-Explosive Reactive Armor

Eldtonia will supply fire control systems and communications.

Their is not a tank that can go 50 mph on roads. The faster ever recorded has been 42-45 mph. If speed is your main properity then we suggest a wheeled vehicle like the Centauro Wheeled Tank Destroyer or the Ratel- both of which can be found among many other items to choose from in our storefront. (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=471334)

Since you are upgrading your tank fleet we also suggest you upgun them to 120mm, their are a wide selection of tanks that have good protection and a 120mm gun for under 65 tons.

Although this doesn't specifically fit your requirements we wish to point you towards our newest main battle tank, the Nakíl A1, which we believe you will be quite pleased with. You can see the statistics here (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=478771), and general information can be found on post 4 [skipping the lengthy write-up, since not a lot of people like to read that].

Their is not tank that can go 50 mph on roads. The faster ever recorded has been 42-45 mph.
I'd like to see a source on that. The M1 abrams is limited to 45mph by an electronic governor, but it is capable of 70 mph ungoverned on road.

I'd like to see a source on that. The M1 abrams is limited to 45mph by an electronic governor, but it is capable of 70 mph ungoverned on road.

Ask and you shall recieve- and its 30 mph cross-country not 70.

Source 1- http://www.fprado.com/armorsite/abrams.htm

Source 2- http://www.army-technology.com/projects/abrams/specs.html

MAV-1A1 Moblie Gun System
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v293/grunt74/NS1/MAVMGS.jpg
The MAV-1A1 is a part of the Modular Armored Vehicle System.
which features 7 Distinct turret options, All MAVS' feature Hybrid Deisel-Electric engines and an electronics suite shileded from EMP by faraday cages. The track system has quick release latches and the wheels can be removed with minimal tools for easy repair. There is a spacous drivers compartment with easy to master controls, and a removable radio system.
The MAV-1A1 was created specifically to compete for this contract from Eldtonia and will be equipped with ERA.
Wieght: 50 tons
Speed: 50 MPH(top road speed )/ 35 mph crusing
Crew: 3 (Driver, Gunner, Commander)
Armament:
[1] 105mm Light Cannon with 45 rounds carried
[1] .50cal or 15.5mm Machine Gun
[1] 7.62mm Machine Gun
[1] 40mm smoke grnade discharger
Engine: PD-MAV001 Diesel Electric Hybrid
Price: $2.5 million

Ask and you shall recieve- and its 30 mph cross-country not 70.

Source 1- http://www.fprado.com/armorsite/abrams.htm

Source 2- http://www.army-technology.com/projects/abrams/specs.html
your sources do not prove anything it says "maximum governed speed"
I said 70mph ROAD ungoverned, not cross-country, thank you.

If you're budget minded we can offer to fully upgrade your current M60A3 fleet to meet these specifications.
Included in this would be the new Type 3610-105-85 hypervelocity 105mm smoothbore gun, new engine, and a number of other additions.
All of this will be done to best use the chassis of your existing vehicles and allow you to perform the upgrads yourselves, as well as allow for easy maintenence of your vehicles.

[OOC: Not to nit-pick, but that should be armored gun system. The mobile gun system has an external turret configuration. Or would have had it had the Stryker MGS project not been put on hold because of the fact that burrying the crew in the hull and uncovered tank guns are deemed.... bad.]

OOC: since we are TPM and not America we have no knowledge of the Stryker MGS which is unrelated.

OOC- I suggest you go with the Nakil, which A:Rocks, and B: Would Replace the M60 as your Main Battle Tank(Which the Patton is)

your sources do not prove anything it says "maximum governed speed"
I said 70mph ROAD ungoverned, not cross-country, thank you.

I read your first post wrong- however, 42/45 mph is the fastest the tank will go governed or ungoverned. All sources say the same thing- so, after checking over 10 I going go with what they say and have its speed at 42 mph for the M1A2 SEP or 45 for the first version. Thank you.

I read your first post wrong- however, 42/45 mph is the fastest the tank will go governed or ungoverned. All sources say the same thing- so, after checking over 10 I going go with what they say and have its speed at 42 mph for the M1A2 SEP or 45 for the first version. Thank you.
You have nothing to support your claim, all of your sources only give the governed speed. I have a former 19K who says it went 62mph routinely ungoverned in germany in the early 90s and topped out at 70mph

-105mm Main gun
-Under 65t
-Capable of 30 MPH Cross country, 50 MPH on roads
-400 Mile Range
-Minimum of 38 rounds of Ammunition sortage internaly
-Explosive Reactive Armor


Karchozian Ground Technologies, the leading supplier of Karchozia's military units, has been given permission by the government to manufacture your desired amount of tanks.

The newest model developed by Karchozian Ground Technologies is given the label KGT-M6B2. The generalized statistics are as follows:

-125mm Turret Gun
-7.62-mm Coaxial Machine Gun
-46.5 Metric Tons
- Road Speed: 65 km/h
Cross-Country Speed: 45 km/h
-550 - 650 km Range
-43 Transportable Rounds
-Armor Volume: 11.04 m3

It also includes various add-ons, such as a mine-clearing attachment. And, obviously, air-conditioning is present within the system.

If you wish to order the KGT-M6B2, just inform us of your desired unit count and we will start production after the first payment, or negotiated payment method. We hope to do business with you soon!

OOC: since we are TPM and not America we have no knowledge of the Stryker MGS which is unrelated.

Umm, under that technicality then you should have no knowledge of what English is and thus not even use American denominations for their armaments.

(OOC: OK, maybe a bit expensive and heavy, but hey, I couldn't resist to try. ;) )


FROM: Müller Panzerwerke B.V., Van Luxemburg
To: Eldtonian MoD
Subject: MBT Requirement

Dear Sirs/Ma'ams,

We would like to offer our BdC-15 "Éléphant" Heavy Battle Tank for the MBT Requirement the Eldtonian Ministry of Defence has made. We are aware of the high price, and the size of it's weaponry. We however hope you'll be able to consider our offer, as we might be able to cut some off the pirce when you would like to install your own firec control systems. We however prefer to install those at Müller Panzerwerke in Innsbruck, Van Luxemburg, as we would like to prevent any mistakes or failures to be made. We're, at this moment, unwilling to release detailed schematics for the vehicle, and the Van Luxemburgian Ministry of Defence has effectively banned us from supplying them to foreign buyers. We however once again would like you to consider our offer.

Signed,
Hans Müller
Müller Panzerwerke CEO

Attachment: BdC-15-folder.pdf






BdC-15 "Éléphant" HBT

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b76/VanLuxemburg/BdC-15VFOR-22.png

Type: Heavy Battle Tank
Manufacturer: Müller Panzerwerke B.V.
Crew (5): Commander, Gunner, 25mm-Gunner, Technician, Driver

Weight 90 Tons
Power plant: VLT Automotive VV24 Multi-fuel/ Bio Diesel 2400 HP
Air-Assisted Transmission 6 Speed Forward
2 Speed Reverse

Speed - Maximum 79 km/h (Governed)
Speed - Cross Country 56 km/h
Speed - 10% Slope 37 km/h
Speed - 60% Slope 20 km/h
Acceleration
(0 to 79 km/h) 15 Seconds
Cruising Range 576km

Main Armament: 150mm Müller Panzerwerke B.V. Smoothbore with Auto-Loader
Secondary Armament: 25mm VDZ & VL Auto-Cannon + 7.62 Minimi MG Co-Axial
Commander's Weapon: 7.62 Minimi MG + HOT 3 AT/Starstreak AA missile.
Coaxial Weapon .50 M2 Machinegun
MG-Gunner's weapon: 7.62 Minimi MG

NBC System: NBC-2000 with Airconditioning - San Gimignano Aero N.V.

Unit Replacement Cost: $13 Million USD.


The BdC-15 is Van Luxemburg's answer to the need for a heavy Tank/ Tank destroyer. It has been in development since 1998, and the project was started by Müller Panzerwerke B.V., which has it's factories near Innsbruck. The heavy vehicle was expected to reach full production by 2003, but this was postponed to 2005.
Nowadays, over 5,000 vehicles have been built, to supply several divisions of the Van Luxemburgian Army. (To be exact, 11 divisions)

Propulsion

The BdC-15 is supplied with VLT Automotive's masterpiece, the VV24 engine. This engine, which are in fact two V-12 engines joined together, delivers 2400 HP, while running on several possible fuels, of which Bio-Diesel is encouraged to use. it also uses a VLT Air-assisted Transmission, built to assist the driver to make higer speeds. 6 forwards gears and 2 reverse gears are built-in. the engine of the BdC-15 is located in the back, surrounded by sound-isolating materials and a layer of titanium armouring.

Armour

the armour of the BdC-15 consists of a layer of Chobham Armour, and a layer of Cermet Armour. This combination, reinforced with depleted Uranium rods, makes it almost 623mm (400mm Chobham, 223mm Cermet) thick, making a total RHAe value of about 1440mm. This can be reinforced with an Enhanced Appliqué Armour kit of 100mm thick, upping the RHAe level to an absolute maximum of 2440 mm.


Main Armament

The main armament of the "Éléphant" was supplied by Müller Panzerwerke, and consists of a 150mm Smoothbore gun, supplied with an autoloader. this gun can fire both APFSDS as HEAT. As it has been supplied with an Autoloader, one crewmember could be removed from the list. the autoloader has been covered in a Titanium protection, with service hatches, to forecome accidents like those happened in the T-72. The main storage for APFSDS and HEAT rounds is located just above the engine, also using it's own armoured case, to prevent explosion during a strike. The main gun uses a digital stabilizing system, to make sure rounds are fired straight at the target indicated.
The gunner also has the Fire Management system FM13B, allowing to track targets, set the max number of shots in a minute, fire the gun, automatically aim the gun, and switch between rounds and the Co-axial MG.

Secondary Armament

The BdC-15 is also called "The Basher" by it's crews. This is because of a wide range of secondary armaments and the powerfull main gun. The BdC-15 has a 25mm Autocannon mounted on the top, with a Co-Axial 7.62 MG, and the commander's post on top. On top of that, the commander is supplied with an 7.62mm FN Minimi MG, aswell as an HOT 3 AT or Starstreak AA missile launcher. More in front is the weapon of the MG-Gunner/Technician. This is a 7.62mm FN Minimi aswell. Every crewmember is also supplied with the MP-7 PDW, aswell as a SIG P226 pistol.

Crew

The crew is quite large, for an HBT only one meter longer than an Leopard 2A6. This was mainly done to supply the BdC-15 with as many weapons as possible. The commander and the 25mm gunner share the highest turret, while the technician and the gunner share the
front of the turret. The driver is alone, located in the front of the hull.

Systems

The BdC-15 is equipped with as many systems as there were available as of 2003.
Here is a small selection:

Anno-2 EOCMDAS
Anno-2 consists of a specialized computer/control panel, two electro-optical interference emitters located on each side of the gun, four laser sensors located on top of the turret, and racks of dedicated anti-laser smoke grenades.
The Anno-2 has two combat roles. In the first role, it works against IR guided ATGMs, by aligning the turret front to the incoming ATGM and using IR emitters to send false signals which scramble the ATGM guidance system. The principle involved is the following.
Wire-guided missiles such as the American TOW are guided to the target by means of a wire and a flare on the back of the missile. The flare is used to keep a 'reference point' of the missile in relationship to the target lock held by the operator, and the guidance computer tries to put the flare on the reference point. Anno-2 emitters create a large hotspot, essentially tricking the missile guidance into following the Anno-2 hotspot instead of the flare hotspot, resulting in faulty course corrections by the ATGW computer. In fact, the computer shall usually believe that no horisontal course correction is necessary since the false flare comes from the same direction as the targeted tank, while vertical corrections shall cause ATGM to either dive into the ground or climb into the sky, depending on whether the operator holds the lock below or above the emitters.
The second part of the system defeats laser guided weapons. When a laser beam is detected the Anno-2 informs the crew with light and sound; it then launches laser defeating smoke grenades, which enshroud the tank and break or degrade the lock. The tank commander can also press a button that will turn the turret front to the laser to meet incoming ATGM with the best protected section and to engage the laser beam source with the maingun. This system is roughly a modernised version of the Russian Shtora-1 system.

FM-3
The FM-3 systems is used to make the gun more independent from the gunner. The FM-3 system takes over the role of target-finding, Aiming, and firing. It is equipped with advanced IR sensors, aswell as Day/night vision, thermal night sights, Rangefinders and a fully automated computing system.

CHS Cees-1
The Commander-Help-System is used to assist the commander by giving orders. It has stored many known strategies and Anti-Tank systems, aswell as most known vehicles, such as the Abrams or the Leopard, but also the ST-37K1, for example. It also scans the horizon and make spossible threat assesments. E.g.: If a T-55 tank comes from the East, and an Abrams from the West, the CHS will advise the commander to open fire on the Abrams first. It will also advise how to engage that Abrams, and which gun/round to use. This is all based on Day/Night vision, thermal sights, rangefinders and IR systems, aswell as a military internet, to connect to HQ, or other tanks.

Price: $13 million USD/ 7.35 Million Van Luxemburgian Euros
The price of the BdC-15 is high, but the vehicle is worth the money. Becuse of the highly advanced systems and dangerous weapons included in the package, Müller Panzerwerke B.V., in cooperation with the Van Luxemburgian Ministry of Defence, has decided to make this the Foreign-sales price. Inquiry about price cuts can only be done when their will be the security of a large sale, or the trust of a known nation.

The Abrams is governed at 42 nph, because at higher speeds it will throw a track.

Umm, under that technicality then you should have no knowledge of what English is and thus not even use American denominations for their armaments.
We use Australian denominations.


The Abrams is governed at 42 nph, because at higher speeds it will throw a track.
No, it is so it can save fuel, the engine sucks gas like you wouldn't belive ungoverned, I am just saying it is easily possible for a tank to go 50mph on a road.

No, it is so it can save fuel, the engine sucks gas like you wouldn't belive ungoverned, I am just saying it is easily possible for a tank to go 50mph on a road.

No, the beauty of the Abrams turbine engine is that it burns the same amount of fuel all the time. It's both a strength and weakness.

http://www.g2mil.com/abramsdiesel.htm

Normally, I loathe to link to anything conected to Carlton Meyer, but he raises some good points there.

I asked and he seems to think the tank treads start to fly off only at speeds of 75mph or more. Since he served 8 years on an M1 ill go with his information..

United Earthlings gets it, I ordered 400 Merkava Mk 4s from them.

So why ask for a 105mm main gun and order a tank with a 150mm one..

We would like to submit the UDEC Lion MBT for your contest. It was a joint-project designed by Isselmere, ourselves, Omz222, and Praetonia as a main-line combat tank. It is one of the most advanced tanks on the NS and capable of taking on other main battle tanks with ease. We are willing to take out the electronics from it and sell the rest of the tank at a reduced cost from the $20 million.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread....0#post10983560

Thank you for your interest, and we hope you will place an order in time.

So why ask for a 105mm main gun and order a tank with a 150mm one..


OOC: Psst the Merkava 4 has a 120mm gun, not 150mm.

its way to expensive...like 13 million, and the merkava is 6....less than half. That and my country is small, so my budget is small, and the merkava at the moment is the best bang for the buck. I will come back to the BdC-15 when funding permits.

OOC: Psst the Merkava 4 has a 120mm gun, not 150mm.
whops read the BdC-15 "Éléphant" HBT description :eek:

[OOC: Not to rain on your parade, but why do you even bother buying RL tech from storefronts when since they're RL, you can actually produce them domestically?]

[OOC: They might lack the production base to construct their own tanks, even if they are real life mirrors. What would be wrong is buying production rights for said equipment.]

[OOC: Ah, I see. Anyway, since this is free-form role-play, I can disprove that - you might as well produce them yourself since too many storefronts have them already, and this is free-form role-play, as said already.]

[OOC: ? How is it relevant how many storefronts have the tank? That should be better for him, because maybe one sells it for cheaper. The point is that he might not have the industry in his nation to produce the tanks on his own, no matter who owns the technology.]

TO: Van Luxemburg
From: Eldtonia MoD

We are now interested in purchasing 2000 of your BdC-15 "Éléphant" HBT's. The total that comes to is 26 000 000 000 at 13 000 000 per unit.

(Signed)
Fredrich Rienhoff, Chancellor