NationStates Jolt Archive

From now on all OOC comments relating to realism, viabilty, cost, or concept of Phoenix Dynamix designs will be made here. I will not read OOC comments posted on the IC threads.

I'll start off. Your Armoured Gunboat is far too unwieldy a design. It has a gun far too big for its size, which will capsize it when fired because of the recoil, despite the outriggers it has. It also has a very limited number of weapons and would most likely shake itself to pieces at the speed it is supposed to go.

It is also not a real threat to anything but unescorted civilian craft for those reasons. Any decent naval vessel will blow this out of the water before it gets anywhere, speed or no speed. A suggestion to redo this design:

Take out the main weapon, strip off the CIWS and missiles. Add in half a dozen .50 Calibre MGs, a few light cannon, perhaps 20mm or so, and a few AT Rocket Launchers, and you've got yourself a fairly decent littoral support vessel. Otherwise, this design is just too unwieldly and far too fragile for the weapons it has.

Do you mean the PB-90 Patrol/Escort or the Armored Gun Cruiser?


Im gonna guess the PB-90
A suggestion to redo this design:

Take out the main weapon, strip off the CIWS and missiles. Add in half a dozen .50 Calibre MGs, a few light cannon, perhaps 20mm or so, and a few AT Rocket Launchers, and you've got yourself a fairly decent littoral support vessel. Otherwise, this design is just too unwieldly and far too fragile for the weapons it has.

That would make it a true gunboat (http://www.mindspring.com/~link.to.travel/panama/Gunboat.jpg) which we already have. It's a patrol boat and it is heavy and armored not light and fragile.

Do you mean the PB-90 Patrol/Escort or the Armored Gun Cruiser?

The PB-90 Patrol/Escort.

Admittedly, given better recoil mechanisms, especially if you consider advances in low pressure 120mm L/44 smoothbores and rifled guns for tanks have been able to reduce recoil for that to around 24 tonnes [Giat's gun specificall]. This should read 24-30 tonnes to be accurate. Now, apply that to shipping and you have something. However, it should be noted that recoil increases exponentially especially since it has a lot to do with the volume of the propellant. In fact, the recoil should be equal to the energy of the round because for every action there is an equal reaction, and then increase that by the amount of gasses that did not fully expand. To be frank, you could probably mount two guns under 200mm on a small patrol boat.

But like Skinny said, I would much rather have a deck launcher for smaller surface to surface missiles. Larger ships will simply outgun this, or hit it with a missile, and then is going to be outclassed... severely. I'm a gun fan for ships, but not for something for the role this is supposed to be used for.

The design on your Armoured Gun Cruiser is freaking ridiculous. A heavy cannon on top of the superstructure will capsize the ship when fired broadside, despite those outriggers.
Furthermore, if a Harpoon hits the superstructure, the entire ship will either go up like a powder keg, or it'll destroy the ammo elevator and make the gun unusable.

Do you mean the PB-90 Patrol/Escort or the Armored Gun Cruiser?


Im gonna guess the PB-90


That would make it a true gunboat (http://www.mindspring.com/~link.to.travel/panama/Gunboat.jpg) which we already have. It's a patrol boat and it is heavy and armored not light and fragile.

Then the PB-90 has no role. Larger ships will outgun it, and small ones either outmanouver it or gang up on it. It has all the disadvantages of the smaller and larger classes, and few, if any, of the advantages.

The design on your Armoured Gun Cruiser is freaking ridiculous. A heavy cannon on top of the superstructure will capsize the ship when fired broadside, despite those outriggers.
Furthermore, if a Harpoon hits the superstructure, the entire ship will either go up like a powder keg, or it'll destroy the ammo elevator and make the gun unusable.

Indxeed. Many of your designs seem to be top-heavy. Now, I'm only a PMT spaceship designer, but I know my basic physics, and top-heavy + big guns with big recoil really is a no-no. Even outriggers won't help it; they'll just be swamped by multiple firings when the main gun gets firing.

RE your MP4 SMG:

The price seems far too high for a weapon of that nature. Other storefronts tend to have lower prices for Submachineguns. Even with production costs taken into consideration, that is several hundred dollars too expensive, and will drive buyers away.

I'd also suggest that it has too many calibres it can fire; that only drives up production costs and makes things far too complex. It might be handy for nations with many calibre types, but no sensible nation will use more than one or two per weapon in reality.

I'm also unsure about adding a grenade launcher. It seems a tad too powerful for an SMG, and might unbalance the weapon, especially when loaded. Grenade launchers are probably better for assault rifles and other bigger weapons.

Or given that submachineguns are for rate of fire and the ability to put that much firepower in a small area, given the size of the gun [as opposed to full blown machinegun]... I'd much rather have a dedicated grenade launcher for these circumstances. If not that, one on an assault rifle variant.

RE your MP4 SMG:

THE REAL LIFE MP-5 COSTS OVER 800$ TO THE MILITARY AND DOES NOT INCLUDE A LASER OR AIMING LIGHT WHICH WOULD EASILY BRING AN MP5 OVER $1,000. I WILL NO LONGER SPEAK TO THE PRICE OF THIS WEAPON.

IT IS A SMALL CALIBER 20mm GRENADE LAUNCHER PERFECT FOR TEAR GAS OR FLASH BANG GRENADES.


YOU CAN ORDER IT IN ANY ONE OF THE CALIBERS LISTED AND MY NATIONS USES ALL OF THEM IN DIFFRENT ROLES.

The design on your Armoured Gun Cruiser is freaking ridiculous. A heavy cannon on top of the superstructure will capsize the ship when fired broadside, despite those outriggers.
Furthermore, if a Harpoon hits the superstructure, the entire ship will either go up like a powder keg, or it'll destroy the ammo elevator and make the gun unusable.
No it wont becasue the superstructure is just as armored as the hull. If you are so worried about firing broad side you dont have to but the out riggers will compensate becasue smaller ships with no out riggers do not capsize.

I WILL NO LONGER SPEAK TO THE PRICE OF THIS WEAPON.
I'll speak to it for you.
Me: "Price, I command you to get lower!"
Price: "Okay!"

Interestingly, that seems to be a diseased carried only by the MP5:


The only major criticism of the MP5 has been its high cost — approximately 900 USD for an MP5N — the same price as an assault rifle. Heckler & Koch has started to complement the MP5 series with the more powerful and cheaper UMP, which is available in .45 ACP, .40 S&W and 9 mm Parabellum calibers

But like Skinny said, I would much rather have a deck launcher for smaller surface to surface missiles. Larger ships will simply outgun this, or hit it with a missile, and then is going to be outclassed... severely. I'm a gun fan for ships, but not for something for the role this is supposed to be used for.
There are two Harpoon Missiles for attacking targets such as destroyers, other wise it will have an easy time taking out other patrol boats, merchant ships, troop transports and naval support ships such as ammo ships

No it wont becasue the superstructure is just as armored as the hull. If you are so worried about firing broad side you dont have to but the out riggers will compensate becasue smaller ships with no out riggers do not capsize.
Smaller ships with no outriggers keep their guns near the waterline. Also, the armor on the superstucture would make it ridiculously topheavy, causing more capsizing.

No it wont becasue the superstructure is just as armored as the hull. If you are so worried about firing broad side you dont have to but the out riggers will compensate becasue smaller ships with no out riggers do not capsize.


That's irrelevent. Whether the ship will capsize or not has to do with bouyancy. The center of mass of the ship is in the hull, not in the superstructure. A top heavy ship will capsize. In fact, the top of the superstructure should weight a lot less than the rest of the ship.

THE REAL LIFE MP-5 COSTS OVER 800$ TO THE MILITARY AND DOES NOT INCLUDE A LASER OR AIMING LIGHT WHICH WOULD EASILY BRING AN MP5 OVER $1,000. I WILL NO LONGER SPEAK TO THE PRICE OF THIS WEAPON.

IT IS A SMALL CALIBER 20mm GRENADE LAUNCHER PERFECT FOR TEAR GAS OR FLASH BANG GRENADES.


YOU CAN ORDER IT IN ANY ONE OF THE CALIBERS LISTED AND MY NATIONS USES ALL OF THEM IN DIFFRENT ROLES.

OKAY

SURELY A DEDICATED GRENADE LAUNCHER WOULD BE BETTER, AS SMG'S ARE DESIGNED FOR RATE OF FIRE? THE GRENADE LAUNCHER WOULD UNBALANCE THE WEAPON TERRIBLY.

OH, AND WHY ARE WE SHOUTING?

There are two Harpoon Missiles for attacking targets such as destroyers, other wise it will have an easy time taking out other patrol boats, merchant ships, troop transports and naval support ships such as ammo ships


Harpoons. :confused: Against NS shipping? I wouldn't want a UGM-84 for real shipping, let alone NS super ships.

Interestingly, that seems to be a diseased carried only by the MP5:
I also have a cheaper weapon known as the MP-3 PHX Sub-Machine Gun which comes in 9mm and 10mm only and a slightly cheaper weapon known as the SMG-X PHX Universal Sub-Machine Gun which can be orderd in 9mm, .40cal, .44cal, 10mm, .45 cal\.454 cal or 50 caliber.

The Talon is a top of the line SMG which outpreforms my other models and comes combat ready with TAC light and laser aiming device which could easily cost over 200$ sold seperately.


Harpoons. :confused: Against NS shipping? I wouldn't want a UGM-84 for real shipping, let alone NS super ships.
I use the AGM-84 :p
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/smart/agm-84.htm

If it's good enough to be the main anti-ship missile of the most powerful navy in the world it is good enough for a patrol boat.

OKAY

SURELY A DEDICATED GRENADE LAUNCHER WOULD BE BETTER, AS SMG'S ARE DESIGNED FOR RATE OF FIRE? THE GRENADE LAUNCHER WOULD UNBALANCE THE WEAPON TERRIBLY.

OH, AND WHY ARE WE SHOUTING?
IN THE LAW ENFORCEMENT ROLE HAVING A TEAR GAS, BEAN BAG OR FLASHBANG GRENADE ON THE END OF YOUR WEAPON IS A NICE FEATURE TO HAVE AND THE SAME SYSTEM THAT MOUNTS THE GL CAN MOUNT other non-lethal weapons like a rubber bullet firing paintball style gun.

cuz i hold shift when i am trying to type FAST

That's irrelevent. Whether the ship will capsize or not has to do with bouyancy. The center of mass of the ship is in the hull, not in the superstructure. A top heavy ship will capsize. In fact, the top of the superstructure should weight a lot less than the rest of the ship.
And you think that the two submarine-like stuctures on the ends of the outriggers do not have balast tanks filled with air? What about if I put helium :p

cuz i hold shift when i am trying to type FAST
That's just a waste of ENERGY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And you think that the two submarine-like stuctures on the ends of the outriggers do not have balast tanks filled with air?
That's a bad idea. If one of the tanks is sheared off (which, being an air tank, is easy to do), the ship would flip right over.

This is true but only if the guns fired broadside w/o that out rigger which you wouldnt do because you have a sensor line leading to the tank which would be cut if it sheared off.

I use the AGM-84 :p
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/smart/agm-84.htm

If it's good enough to be the main anti-ship missile of the most powerful navy in the world it is good enough for a patrol boat.


I really hope the Harpoon II makes a big jump in kill ability because the Harpoon is generally regarded as one of the worst anti-shipping missiles in the real world. I'd think the Yahkont is a more successful killer, or even a TASM-D. IIRC, the TASM-D is reserved for the big jobs.


And you think that the two submarine-like stuctures on the ends of the outriggers do not have balast tanks filled with air?


Why not put the main cannon near the bow, and the secondary turret behind the superstructure, or on a lower 'deck' of the superstructure?

Hey Pheonix, remember me? Anyways I want to open discussion on the T-8 light Tank. Does anyone concur with me that heavy armor is now obsolete?

Hey Pheonix, remember me? Anyways I want to open discussion on the T-8 light Tank. Does anyone concur with me that heavy armor is now obsolete?

Not at all. :) Although I do not agree with TPM's arguments in that thread, and will continue to argue for what I said, I am a firm believer that on NationStates main battle tanks are still of utmost necessity. I am a firm believer that they are still of necessity today. In one or two months I should be off to bootcamp to drive the Leopard 2E. :)

Not at all. :) Although I do not agree with TPM's arguments in that thread, and will continue to argue for what I said, I am a firm believer that on NationStates main battle tanks are still of utmost necessity. I am a firm believer that they are still of necessity today. In one or two months I should be off to bootcamp to drive the Leopard 2E. :)
What country?

Spain.

I really hope the Harpoon II makes a big jump in kill ability because the Harpoon is generally regarded as one of the worst anti-shipping missiles in the real world. I'd think the Yahkont is a more successful killer, or even a TASM-D. IIRC, the TASM-D is reserved for the big jobs.



Why not put the main cannon near the bow, and the secondary turret behind the superstructure, or on a lower 'deck' of the superstructure?
cos then its an ugly destroyer, I might be convinced to swap the 5in and the 14inches BUT it goes agains the orignal AGC design by FLK

cos then its an ugly destroyer, I might be convinced to swap the 5in and the 14inches BUT it goes agains the orignal AGC design by FLK
In the armed forces, utility trumps aesthetics. I'd think that would be obvious.

It would also require doubling the length and adding another turret to get 360 degrees..

TPM would you be willing to design a few things for me? mainly some form of Gunship (helicopter) and a VTOL transport jet thing for like a 7 men? other things would just be small stuff, i just ask since im buying most of my military weapons and designs off you i might aswell as ask to find out if you can design a few things for me. ICly we would be willing to pay for such services.

Certainly, I am assuming you have already deemed my existing Helicopters (http://phoenixdynamix.proboards38.com/index.cgi?board=Aircraft&action=display&thread=1099026929) unsuitable, if you could go into what you are looking for in a gunship I can get started.

Putting air or helium into the pontoons outboard would be a waste of time. Especially if it's hit by a torpedo or low-velocity .50 cal hits.

tell that to submainre designers

tell that to submainre designers

Submarines are generally deep underwater. Your pontoons, on the other hand, aren't, and are extremely easy targets.

The water ballasts on submarines are necessary to submerge the vessel, as it uses the weight of the water to submerge.

Submarines are generally deep underwater. Your pontoons, on the other hand, aren't, and are extremely easy targets.
no, you cant even see them unless you are close as hell and the water is clear carribean water

cos then its an ugly destroyer, I might be convinced to swap the 5in and the 14inches BUT it goes agains the orignal AGC design by FLK


UGH. So your are saying that you would rather have a nice looking destroyer than a capable one ? TPM i seriously do not understand you at all.

We have destoryers and firgates this one is... "extra"

Whats the point of having billions of dollars to spend if you cant develop something that truely looks mean and unique once and a while.

Not at all. :) Although I do not agree with TPM's arguments in that thread, and will continue to argue for what I said, I am a firm believer that on NationStates main battle tanks are still of utmost necessity. I am a firm believer that they are still of necessity today. In one or two months I should be off to bootcamp to drive the Leopard 2E. :)
I feel difernetly, today's battlefeild in RL is one of fast action deployment SF officers in IFV and strategic airstrikes. I have US Army in my blood (the 506th you know:Band of Brothers) and hope to go into the Green Berets following my cousin. But have fun, i think driving a tank would be a blast.

Certainly, I am assuming you have already deemed my existing Helicopters (http://phoenixdynamix.proboards38.com/index.cgi?board=Aircraft&action=display&thread=1099026929) unsuitable, if you could go into what you are looking for in a gunship I can get started.


I'll tell you some of the Things im looking for now:-

Gunships/other helicopters:-

Quick Strike gunship:-

High weapons payload with vary speed, needs a vary good Targeting system, quick to deploy. Armor is not a major thing for these gunships since there moer of a support, fly in fly out sort of thing.

Assault Gunships:-

Lots of weapons, Speed not important, Vary good Targeting system and as much armor as a flying tank can get.

Support Gunship:-
Able to carry troops if need to Retive troops from a warzone (wounded etc) good fire support weapons decent targeting system.

Heavy Lifter:-
well armored and able to carry large amout of supplies to remote regions, able to defend itself from missile attack.


VTOL's:-

Airborn Transport:-
able to carry in 9 people, Vary Fast, armerments not needed but Armor needs to be good so that these Jets can get in and out in combat zones.

Recon VTOL:-

Vary fast, able to take images and other recony things, weapons are not really needed, Armor due to the speeds it needs to get to should be low (im a strong beliver in Weakness and Strengths)

Medical VTOL:-

a transport VTOL with means to get sick, wounded etc to safty fast from one base to another.
Ground Forces:-

Mortors (dont really care what they are, jsut something orginal)
Heavy machine guns (i think i put this in my contracts page)
SAWs (again in contracts page)

bah I sort of already have helicopters for all of those roles, but I will see what i can do...

bah I sort of already have helicopters for all of those roles, but I will see what i can do...


I know but i kinda wanted somthing others didnt have yet (i know im a pain).

on the subject of the PB-90 Patrol "Boat-Tank"

Good for taking out oil tankers, supply ships, drug dealers, cruise ships, speedboats, yachts, gunboats, corvettes, frigates, tugboats, support vessels, troop transports and the like.

good for taking out frigates my foot it would'nt be able to scratch a standerd Jiangwei-II Class missile frigate let alone one of Ato's upgraded ones

So by that logic, the Main gun on the US Navy's Oliver Hazard Perry Class Frigate, Arliegh Burke Class Destoryer, and Ticonderoga Class Cruiser could not destroy a Jiangwei-II Class missile frigate since the US Navy's ships only use a 127mm gun.

The 140mm gun on the PB-90 is a tank cannon which can destroy any main battle tank in real life and most on NS, and your going to say a frigate's armor can defend against that. Lets pretend its hull can, even if it could, its superstructure can't, it wont be much use when its 100mm cannons and 37 machine guns are destroyed in less than 30 seconds.

so by your logic the only weapons that warships have is a gun. no i did not say that it couldn't destroy a Jiangwei-II Class missile Frigate if the Frigate was just siting there doing nothing to stop it. i said that the statement that it would be good at destroying fully combat efective Frigates is compleat Bull. because Frigates have better radars ,a lot more Anti-ship missiles (more than the single CIWS gun on your PB-90 Patrol "Boat-Tank" could handle) and helicpoters capable of luanching torpedos and air luanched anti-ship missiles. your boat tank would be a smokeing ruin long before it got with in gun range. and if by some mirical it did get in gun range who is to say the Frigate isant going to shoot back it can absorb a lot more punishment than your boat tank can

you have forgotten all PD naval ships contain FCLAS.

Full Spectrum Active Protection Close-In Shield (FCLAS)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v293/grunt74/NS1/22fclas.jpg
FCLAS is now included free with most armored vehicles and ships. The Phoenix Dynamix FCLAS features a canister loading system and fires from a single barrel. The FCLAS system uses 4 or more canister launchers tied into a combined RADAR/LADAR sensor system, computer controlled this stystem will detect and calculate the approach speed of a projectile, like a cruise missile, anti-tank missile or even a free-flight rocket. It then lobs the FCLAS projectile out at a specified trajectory, again computer controlled. The round bursts in the air at exactly the right moment, ensuring 80% of the time the warhead
of the incoming missile explodes.



Also frigates are typically LIGHTY armored while the PB-90 has heavy armor. Also helicopters need to get closer to frie torpedos and if the 56mm gun with its 9+km range misses, the 20mm will easily take it out with armor piering and explosive rounds at 4 miles. the missiles would be taken care of by the FCLAS, ieally you would attack a frigate with this ship after it has launched its missiles at more valulable targets but even if it dint they cant launch all of thier missiles at once. The 2 harpoons coupled with the 140mm cannon fire would easily shred it.

ok one CIWS and one FCLAS vs 10 high speed smart anti-ship missiles and 2 air luanched torpedos with the possiblity for a second or even third salvo................ do the math. i will be marking you for neatness and dont forget to show your calculations.

That turret is so impractical (set very high) that one glancing shot could damage the turning mechanisms.

ok one CIWS and one FCLAS vs 10 high speed smart anti-ship missiles and 2 air luanched torpedos with the possiblity for a second or even third salvo................ do the math. i will be marking you for neatness and dont forget to show your calculations.
each FCLAS has 4-16 firing points and can reload rapidly

PB-90 Patrol/Escort Boat
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...1/tankboat.jpg
The PB-90 is basically a Main Battle Tank for the sea. It is highly maneverable, heavily armored and packs a deadly punch. With a 140mm main gun (5inch naval guns are only ~127mm) it can threaten everything from merchant ships to Heavy Cruisers and Aircraft carriers. It's dual purpose rapid fire 56mm AA gun can take out low flying helicopters at long range(at least 4 miles) and can also deal with small, fast moving water targets.( like terrorists in small speedboats) Additonaly it has a radar guided 20mm automatic gatling Close In Weapons System. Since these were designed to act as raiders or serve as picket ships, they can carry two harpoon missiles for hitting longer trange targets in an emergency. These tube launchers can either fire the harpoon missiles, Mk46 torpedos or ASROC anti-sub rockets or a mix depending on mission. Also the ship is protected completly from 25mm machine gun fire and gan take glancing 5 inch shell strikes. Furthermore the superstructure and turret is completely watertight so even if a big wave crashes over it, water will not be taken on.
Power Plant 2 Diesel-Electric Generators powering 5 Submersible Turbines.
Max Speed: 40+kts
Crew: (5) Captain, Driver, Gunner, Engineer, Engineering Assistant/Backup loader
Weapons
(1) 140mm cannon (w/ autoloader)
(1) 56mm rapid fire cannon
(1) 20mm Phalanx II 20mm CIWS turret
(2) Harpoon Anti-Ship Missiles, or (2) Anti-Submarine Rockets or 2 Mk46 Torpedos on side launchers.
Combat Systems:
AN/APQS-2 Radar Dome (for Phalanx)
S/AN-55 360 degree sonar
PD-CMPS GPS
PD-AN/APAC FLIR( in turret)
Full Radio Suite
Price: $200 million


i don't see any anti-torpedo defences so while your trying to destroy the anti-ship missiles you tank boat gets blown to bits by stalion style rocket torpedos. and your magical FCLAS isnt mentiond anywhere

It is mentioned in the main storefront that all phoenix ships and tanks have it as a standard option even if not shown in the picture or description

sonic jamming can be emitted from the sonar

sonic jamming whats that..............oh more noise..........torpedos track noise. thats like jumping into a shark infested pool with a cut on your arm and then emptying buckets of blood on yourself.................... insane. oh and when you post a desgin on the fourms try to include everything that it has in the write up. it stops peaple from geting anoyed

sonic jamming whats that..............oh more noise..........torpedos track noise. thats like jumping into a shark infested pool with a cut on your arm and then emptying buckets of blood on yourself.................... insane. oh and when you post a desgin on the fourms try to include everything that it has in the write up. it stops peaple from geting anoyed
Its a well proven technique used on modern submaines. Its like if a megaphone shouted into your ear and then you tried listen for a bunny in the woods

Your command cruiser is impractical. The decks are incredibly thin and unsupported for such a vessel with carrier landing in mind. Recoil and blast effects from the cannon could wreak havoc with the main deck's systems.

sonic jamming whats that..............oh more noise..........torpedos track noise. thats like jumping into a shark infested pool with a cut on your arm and then emptying buckets of blood on yourself.................... insane. oh and when you post a desgin on the fourms try to include everything that it has in the write up. it stops peaple from geting anoyed


Just give up, just cos you dont like the design dont mean others wont. ITS A FRACKING PATROL BOAT/WATER TANK not a battleship. I can see one reason for this, Decoy or sneak attacker, it might not last long but it would do the job.

Its a well proven technique used on modern submaines. Its like if a megaphone shouted into your ear and then you tried listen for a bunny in the woods

that would need a sub scale sonar and your tini tank boat shure as hell cant fit one on. and if i remember corectaly they don't blast torpedos with sound they release decoys

no

Just give up, just cos you dont like the design dont mean others wont. ITS A FRACKING PATROL BOAT/WATER TANK not a battleship. I can see one reason for this, Decoy or sneak attacker, it might not last long but it would do the job.

And, building off of this - if it won't last long, why waste human lives when fighter drones or dual-stage cluster missiles would do a similar, if not better job?

Just give up, just cos you dont like the design dont mean others wont. ITS A FRACKING PATROL BOAT/WATER TANK not a battleship. I can see one reason for this, Decoy or sneak attacker, it might not last long but it would do the job.

i know its a "fracking patrol boat" i'm just disputing its claim that it is good at destroying frigates which are fully fledged warships

frigates have little to no armor whereas this has literally tons of armor

frigates have little to no armor whereas this has literally tons of armor

which means this tiny patrol boat would have to have ether a displacement greater than a frigate(which would mean it would have to be bigger than a frigate) or its weapons or power plant would have to be smaller than Usual for a vessal of this size. since its Obviously not the weapons the powerplant has to be the one that is comprimised there for the frigate will simply stay out of your gun range but with in its missile range. it will be able to do this due to its greater power to Weight ratio. there for your boat tank will not be very good at destroying frigates. simpley because they will be able to out run it

Your new Viking Command Ship is so top-heavy with those...what I presume to be landing strips...that the whole ship may well capsize in battle, or have the airstrips broken off in battle, rendering them useless.

Thats a mis-interpration due to the technical aspects of the 3d program which i rendered the drawing in. The carrier section is acctualy modeled based on the USS Nimitz

Also frigates are typically LIGHTY armored while the PB-90 has heavy armor. Also helicopters need to get closer to frie torpedos and if the 56mm gun with its 9+km range misses, the 20mm will easily take it out with armor piering and explosive rounds at 4 miles. the missiles would be taken care of by the FCLAS, ieally you would attack a frigate with this ship after it has launched its missiles at more valulable targets but even if it dint they cant launch all of thier missiles at once. The 2 harpoons coupled with the 140mm cannon fire would easily shred it.

Um, no.

Yet another bad design:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v293/grunt74/1947.jpg

Your plane lacks an engine.

Nice try, it has an engine, it is a pusher
like this
http://www.acig.org/artman/uploads/lcra_fly.jpg

or this

http://www.kansasaviationmuseum.org/prescott_pusher_files/image003.jpg


:D

Engines don't go very far without air, and your jet doesn't have any intakes.

its not a jet, can you read? Its a pusher it has a PROPELLER on the rear.. duh

So... you want a plane with no survivability for the pilots in the event of trouble?

It is a proven design, I RP that it was designed in 1947, which at the time it would have been a top of the line aircraft capable of holding its own against any WW2 aircraft, hence the title "Retro Tech"
In the event of trouble, same as with a jet, they can eject.

It is a proven design, I RP that it was designed in 1947, which at the time it would have been a top of the line aircraft capable of holding its own against any WW2 aircraft, hence the title "Retro Tech"
In the event of trouble, same as with a jet, they can eject.
Ejection seats didn't become reliable til 1949. Therefore, if the pilot jumps out, he'll get chopped up by the prop, and if he lands with the plane, the engine block will crush him.

Anyway, the only advantage of the pusher configuration was the fact that, in WWI, pilots wouldn't shoot their prop off. With the creation of the interrupter gear, this advantage is lost.

Ejection seats didn't become reliable til 1949. Therefore, if the pilot jumps out, he'll get chopped up by the prop, and if he lands with the plane, the engine block will crush him.
Even though it was designed in 1947, I'm selling this in 2006 so it has a nice brand new ACES III ejection seat

Even though it was designed in 1947, I'm selling this in 2006 so it has a nice brand new ACES III ejection seat
That doesn't even make sense. Any jet fighter would outmanuever this thing.

dont buy it then, there are alot of nations who RP pre-modern or semi-past tech, I am involved right now in an RP where F-86 sabres are going up against ME-262's for example.

Well your PB-91 is yet another example of your sheer nonsense and ototal lack of even basic understanding of how to design.
Lets take it point by point:

Again it is stupendously top heavy.

it is far far too small for its weaposn load

Its weapons all interfere quite nicely with one and other

It has no visisble antennas for its radar system.

It simply doesn't have room for a sonar system.

It has been said before and it will be said againa nd again, a quick 3d image with a list of weapons and systems does not make a design soema ctual thoughts into proper sizes weight sna dimesions generally helps and makes your design much easier to defend.

dont buy it then, there are alot of nations who RP pre-modern or semi-past tech, I am involved right now in an RP where F-86 sabres are going up against ME-262's for example.
If the nations are RPing in the pre-modern era, how are they going to buy a plane that's being sold in 2006 era? Do they have time machines?

They are pre-modern TECH not that they themselves are in the past, they just never advanced

Well your PB-91 is yet another example of your sheer nonsense and ototal lack of even basic understanding of how to design.
Lets take it point by point:

Again it is stupendously top heavy.

it is far far too small for its weaposn load

Its weapons all interfere quite nicely with one and other

It has no visisble antennas for its radar system.

It simply doesn't have room for a sonar system.

It has been said before and it will be said againa nd again, a quick 3d image with a list of weapons and systems does not make a design soema ctual thoughts into proper sizes weight sna dimesions generally helps and makes your design much easier to defend.
the big white things on top of the CIWS are the main radar system (they are radomes) there is also both Phased array radar (m-56 naval is phased array) and phased array sonar spread out amongst the ship and no the weapons dont, i could show you 6 pictures of different angles with the turrets moving and there is clear line of sight for each weapon.

its again not top heavy since the hull is very wide and actually a true quadramaran so extremely stable firing problem.

stay tuned for the jet powered biplane

CIWS radars are independently linked to a main system.
If it's designed to be a fast patrol vessel, then it'll break apart on firing the main weapon. If it can survive firing the main weapon, then it'll be too slow to be a patrol vessel.
Turning the turret behind at about 110ish degrees to left or right would impact the radomes on the CIWS, as well as turning about 160 degrees and hitting the missile tubes.
The internals for all the guns, the four 40mm autocannon and the three tank cannons would take up more space than is apparently available on the ship.
A good laser-THEL hit or maybe repeated RPG hits on the missiles would probably set them off.

And a jet-powered biplane? Say it isn't so! There's a reason why monoplanes are preferred - because the wings won't collapse on high-speed turning maneuvers.

Strathdonia's statements are correct. Making half-assed ship designs by taking a hull and cramming as much crap on them as you can is not the way to go. Same with making half-assed fighters.

nope

I'm sorry, but I do not understand to which argument you say "nope" to.

Failure to put up good logical arguments shows that your ship designs are vastly incompetent and that you should actually think before you create another aircraft, ship, or weapon. (Yes, I'm talking about your AR-22 series. SAW barrel on AR? Say it ain't so!)

http://colt.com/mil/CAR.asp

I'll give you that one, then.

I refer to your storefront now. The weapon labeled as No.12 makes no sense whatsoever. What is the point of an underslung pistol on a weapon that has about 5 times the fire capability?

The weapon No.6 has not enough room to be a truly accurate weapon. If it uses a rifle round, which it looks like, the weapon has an effective range of less than 15 meters due to the bullet veering out of control during flight.

Minigun: Dear god, what kind of recoil does that thing have? And don't talk about the movie Predator. Please.

Weapons 20, 22, and 23 have incredibly heavy-looking barrels and seem to be very front-heavy, killing the balance in such a rifle. No.22 also has a ludicrously small silencer on the end of the rifle - you'd need to equip a silencer to the whole barrel to effectively stop the sound of your bullet. I think it's a .40 rifle bullet, right?

No.28 has nothing but that flimsy bipod for recoil control. Say hello to broken arms and shoulders.

I've had you on ignore for 2 days but im viewing your post, this is the last one I will answer.

No.12 is a p90 with a 5-7 pistol, they both use the same ammo, the pistol is simply used as a foward grip and is stored there, you run out of the 50, roun clips or are caught reloading u can slide the pistol off and shoot it in defense.

The weapon No.6 uses a double clip of 10 rounds, not as wide as the indiviual clip

Minigun: Tripod mount or vehicle = recoil is negligbile

Weapons 20, 22, and 23: bullpup config thus not front heavy at all
its a suppressor that lowers the sound there is no such thing a true scilencer, there are only about 5 truely silent weapons and they use sub sonic ammo which this does not.

No.28 : you can say the same for the real life M82 .50 cal but this is only 8mm and the M82 is 12.7mm. But mine has recoil buffering springs so no.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v293/grunt74/ofcourse.gif
Quintramaran or Pentamaran?

Pentamaran.

TPM, do you have some aversion to putting actual statistics in your designs, as Questers mentioned? How the hell can people decide whether to buy these things if they don't even know how long it is?

Oh, and RL systems? NS exists for a reason; to create much better systems. This new Missile Boat will be outranged and outgunned against any nation who hasn't just started up and is using RL tech. It'll get blown out of the water before it can fire a shot.

TPM, do you have some aversion to putting actual statistics in your designs, as Questers mentioned? How the hell can people decide whether to buy these things if they don't even know how long it is?

Oh, and RL systems? NS exists for a reason; to create much better systems. This new Missile Boat will be outranged and outgunned against any nation who hasn't just started up and is using RL tech. It'll get blown out of the water before it can fire a shot.
Yes I do, because any numbers are just pulled out of my ass and don't have any bearing unless its a redesign of a real ship like my Iowa modifcation.
I firmly believe that the picture is worth a thousand words.


There is no such thing as "Phalanx IV CIWS" or "Goalkeeper Mk3 Mod 1 CIWS" In real life, the modifers articulate that it is a TPM design based on the Phalanx and Goal Keeper. They do not even look much like their real life counter parts. the SA-101 missile is also my own design, but many navies uses standard weapons since they still hold up in combat so there is an option for those.

It's a small missile boat, not a super dreadnought.

There are at least 3 major storefronts I can think of which sell modern RL tech and have sold to hundreds of nations. This is just as good as any existing real life system if not better. And it comes with the TPM pizzaz :) .

Yes I do, because any numbers are just pulled out of my ass and don't have any bearing unless its a redesign of a real ship like my Iowa modifcation.
I firmly believe that the picture is worth a thousand words.


There is no such thing as "Phalanx IV CIWS" or "Goalkeeper Mk3 Mod 1 CIWS" In real life, the modifers articulate that it is a TPM design based on the Phalanx and Goal Keeper. They do not even look much like their real life counter parts. the SA-101 missile is also my own design, but many navies uses standard weapons since they still hold up in combat so there is an option for those.

It's a small missile boat, not a super dreadnought.

There are at least 3 major storefronts I can think of which sell modern RL tech and have sold to hundreds of nations. This is just as good as any existing real life system if not better. And it comes with the TPM pizzaz :) .

its not, and if it did
those "thousand words" would be an extremly vague discription, unless u start including scales in your pictures

Now, why would you have me on ignore if I'm presenting good arguments? This is supposed to improve your designs right? Unfortunately if you're too incompetent to realise some of the problems that you have, then I'm afraid that it's your fault and not mine that I'm being blocked.

Open your mind.

GO ON THE NS DRAFTROOM

PLEASE

I'm sure you're a nice guy, but it's apparent you don't really know what you're doing here.

Oh, and one more thing.

Ignoring someone just because they present a logical arguement shows a huge lack of both maturity, and intelligence.

How about, instead of defending each of your designs to the hilt (and making yourself sound silly in the process), you take people's critisisms on board, and make compromises?

He did, posted the usual random nonesense, got angry that no one was supporting him, flamed everyone and then got banned.

So much for that.

A bit off-topic, but what is the NS Draftroom? I'm curious.

He did, posted the usual random nonesense, got angry that no one was supporting him, flamed everyone and then got banned.

So much for that.
Wrong.

After asking a simple question about one of my designs, which was actually answered by only one person, someone else told me my design was insanely idiotic", and another(you), said something simmilar, to which I countered "you guys are just jealous", the admin threatened to take action against me and so I left.

And I ignore people based on the severity of the insults they dish out towards me, and I'm not here to get ripped into on a daily basis for a game I play for fun.
I tried to answer some of the questions of the ignored people in here when they ask a good one, but even when I do masterfully they have it their heads already that I am ignorant and don't move on. Luckily outside of this thread I don't have to click the "view post" link because I have no interest interacting with users who are on my Ignore List, unless they are putting pointelss, innaccurate spam in here to which I do my best to weather and adress.

This thread is primarly for those of you who think you are experts to get it out of yoursystem if you have a problem with my ingenoious designs, I'm usually not going to make more than slight changes.

This thread is primarly for those of you who think you are experts to get it out of yoursystem if you have a problem with my ingenoious designs, I'm usually not going to make more than slight changes.

If you're only going to make slight changes, there's no point in having this thread.... to that end, chances are, most RP'er's won't accept your designs in MT, or even early PMT.

As for the realism issue.... people like to RP something they can visualise and imagine, and, as well, something that is possible. Generally, those who RP MT do so to RP "A battle of wit's", rather than a battle of "Technological Imagination" like those on FT do.

I plan to do my first design soon, and it's probably going to be for a "Super-Super-Heavy Tank". I'm going to do it because I feel that there is a tactical "niche" in my countries defence of a certain city. As much as I'd like to God-Mod the design, I do, however, plan to take it to the Draftroom, and I will, when I get the ineveitable critism, plan to change it.

A game that requires everyone to "play-along" is not fun when a person "plays by themself". It's rather like two children playing make-believe, and one telling the other to believe the sky is green. No matter how hard that child trys to believe it, the stark reality will make it impossible for that child to do so.......

Once more, I ask you take everyone's advice on board.

I have been doing this for 3 years. Noone has ever come at me with so much degree of ill negative and un-constructive critisim than in the past week. This thread is so I wont have to deal with it in the IC threads, where it does not belogn...
Once again I ask you to leave me alone.

Umm.. Unconstructive critisism would be like this:

*You are a GODMOD, go and learn simple laws of physics.

Trying to tell you where you can improve, and how to make your designs mro feasible, IMO, is constructive.

TPM, like I said further up the thread, I have nothing against you personally. Its just the fact is you're selling what are essentially futuristic designs as MT or PMT.

Thats cool, and I'll leave you alone, but I think you should know, if someone ever RP's with me using your weapons, I won't acknowedge them.

1. People have said that.

2. Then you can not recognize Omz222, Sniper Country, Anagonia, CorpSac, Harlesburg, Talthia, Hammerite, Sanctur, Ascendotuum, Nazi Weaponized Virus, Kazakhlands, Slinao, Nueve Italia, Anarchy 92, Mirruin, Elephantum, Tinsuvilia, Nuptse, Exetonia Minor, Shazbotdom, Kormanthor, Binthor, Pilot, Golddragons, Shasoria, Nerotika, Exponent, The Aeson, Anubis Coalition 1, Javea, Allanea, Utopria, Axario, P3X1299, Kyanges, Blacktower, Corzia, New Montreal States, Unified Bubnor, Maldaathi, Tanthan, Samurai Clanlords, Poptartrea, Kordo, Irondin, Smarcronesia, Falcania, Mora Tau, Akin Republics, Afslavistakistania, Candana, Dunbarrow, Cotland, Kazakhstania, Lost Dynasties, Chinlanikistan, Pallawish, Calla Brym Rhyn, Vast Principles, Rudolfensia, Skepticism, Lachenburg, Independent Macedonia, The Shadow Phoenixs, Robaria, Socialist Serbia, The Great Sixth Reich, Great Romeo, Gintonpar, Dracun imperium, Ixtar, Kzuu Mai, Harrylandia, Gordenia, AeroSpaceCity, Random Kingdom, Hyst, The Transylvania, DemonLordEnigma and Roach-Busters to name a few.

1) As much I'm sure people would like to say that, I don't actually see those exact words anywhere.

2) OK.

2. Then you can not recognize Omz222, Sniper Country, Anagonia, CorpSac, Harlesburg, Talthia, Hammerite, Sanctur, Ascendotuum, Nazi Weaponized Virus, Kazakhlands, Slinao, Nueve Italia, Anarchy 92, Mirruin, Elephantum, Tinsuvilia, Nuptse, Exetonia Minor, Shazbotdom, Kormanthor, Binthor, Pilot, Golddragons, Shasoria, Nerotika, Exponent, The Aeson, Anubis Coalition 1, Javea, Allanea, Utopria, Axario, P3X1299, Kyanges, Blacktower, Corzia, New Montreal States, Unified Bubnor, Maldaathi, Tanthan, Samurai Clanlords, Poptartrea, Kordo, Irondin, Smarcronesia, Falcania, Mora Tau, Akin Republics, Afslavistakistania, Candana, Dunbarrow, Cotland, Kazakhstania, Lost Dynasties, Chinlanikistan, Pallawish, Calla Brym Rhyn, Vast Principles, Rudolfensia, Skepticism, Lachenburg, Independent Macedonia, The Shadow Phoenixs, Robaria, Socialist Serbia, The Great Sixth Reich, Great Romeo, Gintonpar, Dracun imperium, Ixtar, Kzuu Mai, Harrylandia, Gordenia, AeroSpaceCity, Random Kingdom, Hyst, The Transylvania, DemonLordEnigma and Roach-Busters to name a few.

That a large list of people. Did you have it all save on WordPad or something?

Meh, who knows.

I don't know what the TPM is doing with me IC-ly, but I'd like to invade him and test his RP-ing skills i.e I invade him.

I'm just not sure if it would be worth my effort to do a 4 page suprise attack for him to say:

"I Ignore you because OOC-ly you think I design my products with lego"

Which is a) A lame thing to do, even in free-form RP. b) Not true, I just think you need help with the facts (if you do the CAD youself, then you're good) and c)Lego is cool.

'Neways.. this thread should die, as no matter what a person say's TPM isn't going to change certain things.

Thats cool, and I'll leave you alone, but I think you should know, if someone ever RP's with me using your weapons, I won't acknowedge them.

I use my own weapons. Now follow your own words and leave me alone.

2. Then you can not recognize Omz222, Sniper Country, Anagonia, CorpSac, Harlesburg, Talthia, Hammerite, Sanctur, Ascendotuum, Nazi Weaponized Virus, Kazakhlands, Slinao, Nueve Italia, Anarchy 92, Mirruin, Elephantum, Tinsuvilia, Nuptse, Exetonia Minor, Shazbotdom, Kormanthor, Binthor, Pilot, Golddragons, Shasoria, Nerotika, Exponent, The Aeson, Anubis Coalition 1, Javea, Allanea, Utopria, Axario, P3X1299, Kyanges, Blacktower, Corzia, New Montreal States, Unified Bubnor, Maldaathi, Tanthan, Samurai Clanlords, Poptartrea, Kordo, Irondin, Smarcronesia, Falcania, Mora Tau, Akin Republics, Afslavistakistania, Candana, Dunbarrow, Cotland, Kazakhstania, Lost Dynasties, Chinlanikistan, Pallawish, Calla Brym Rhyn, Vast Principles, Rudolfensia, Skepticism, Lachenburg, Independent Macedonia, The Shadow Phoenixs, Robaria, Socialist Serbia, The Great Sixth Reich, Great Romeo, Gintonpar, Dracun imperium, Ixtar, Kzuu Mai, Harrylandia, Gordenia, AeroSpaceCity, Random Kingdom, Hyst, The Transylvania, DemonLordEnigma and Roach-Busters to name a few.
I've never heard of the vast majority of those people, and those who I have heard of either don't RP here anymore (in fact, some of those have been deleted by the mods) or are total n00bs I wouldn't RP with anyway. There are a couple of good names on there, but I honestly don't ever remember seeing Omz buying from you. I suspect a lot of these are based on orders made long, long ago for equipment which is no longer used, and all of the good RPers on this list would agree not to use your silly tech if it was explained to them how stupid it is.

I've never heard of the vast majority of those people, and those who I have heard of either don't RP here anymore (in fact, some of those have been deleted by the mods) or are total n00bs I wouldn't RP with anyway. There are a couple of good names on there, but I honestly don't ever remember seeing Omz buying from you. I suspect a lot of these are based on orders made long, long ago for equipment which is no longer used, and all of the good RPers on this list would agree not to use your silly tech if it was explained to them how stupid it is.
Omz222 purchased a significant number of my A-36 Apache Attack Aircraft, which I painted naked ladies on the sides of and he got mad about that and painted over them. And I beleive Sniper Country is currently involved in a RP with Automagfreek and his forces make exclusive use of TPM Special Ammo as well as dozens of aircraft types. Most of these orders are from my current storefront, the original store was lost when we moved to jolt, and I might add, the original storefront was quite popular and never recieved such harsh negative and unhelpful critisim (besides the FU-29K and my two large airships )