NationStates Jolt Archive

ooc. Just for General Info, Naval Strength of the IJN in the South Chinese Sea.

1st. Fleet-Yokohama/Combined with 3rd. Fleet in the South Chinese Sea roughly between Hainan Dao and Taiwan
4 Dreadnought Battleship
8 Battle Cruiser
3 Pre-Dreadnought Battleships
4 Armored Cruisers
5 Protected Cruisers
10 Light Cruisers
30 Destroyers
20 Submarines
20 Motor Torpedo Boats
2 Sea/Airplane Carrier

2nd. Fleet-Sasebo/ Currently at Sea, Destination Unknown
10 Dreadnought Battleships
8 Battle Cruiser
2 2nd. Class Battle cruisers
4 Pre-Dreadnought Battleships
4 Armored Cruisers
10 Protected Cruisers
10 Light Cruisers
4 Sea/Airplane carrier
35 Destroyers
25 Submarines
35 Motor Torpedo Boats

3rd. Fleet-Hainan Dao/Combined with 1st Fleet in the South Chinese Sea roughly between Hainan Dao and Taiwan
6 Dreadnought Battleship
9 Battle Cruiser
2 2nd. Class Battle cruisers
3 Pre-Dreadnought Battleships
1 Coast Defense Ship
4 Armored Cruisers
10 Protected Cruisers
15 Light Cruisers
2 Airplane/Seaplane Carrier
35 Destroyers
40 Submarines (20 of These with 2nd. Fleet)
20 Motor Torpedo Boats

The Republic of France is startled and saddened by the incident in the Asia but can offer no condolences to an enemy of the Republic. Now that Great Britain is at war with Japan, it urges Britain to be wary of the allies of Japan, namely China. The British should also know that Germany is allied with Japan and worked with that nation to defeat Russia.

Perhaps it is time for Britain to truly enter the fray - France can continue to hold the bulk of the Western Front while Britain helps and controls the seas as well as the enemy colonies. France could use help in the Channel.

**************************************

The French ports have been reinforced with more divisions to protect from enemy attacks. The bulk of the air force is also being sent in a desperate attempt to bomb the enemy fleets with all they have, sinking what they can. Coastal guns are being zeroed in on the ships attacking the French cities, as they have been preparing for this since the fleets left for the Mediterannnean.

IC:
Telegram to the British Empire:
In light of your unprovoked attacks upon the Japanese Empire and the British support of the French aggressors against the German Empire we feel we have no other option than to make our declaration of war against you.

Singed
Mehmed V

SIC:
The orders that troops in Somaliland and Israel have been waiting for have been sent. New orders have been sent to the Ottoman Fleets.

OOC:
Orders will be sent to Sharina tonight.

ooc. You first have to pass my fleet GB ;) Whats the exact Strength of your fleet in the east? You Fact Book says that the only ships in the Far East are 3 Destroyers "based in China".


[Haha, I haven't even posted half of the royal navy's strength :D

Those three ships are reserve 'home guard' ships.]

--- Official Press Release from the Ministry of Defense: 11 May 1918 ---

In response to the escalation of tensions between His Most Britannic Majesty and the nations of the Central Powers, the Union of South Africa, in order to defend the livelyhood the general populace and its territories, and in compliance with the wishes of the office of the Prime Minister, is calling for the general mobilization of the South Africa Defense Forces, both active and reserve units.

Furthermore, all male citizens 18-24 are to report immedeately to local government recruiting offices or post offices to recieve their orders for deployment.

All those not in compliance with the orders stated above are to be treated as criminals and promptly detained for conviction and sentencing on the grounds of treason.

May the Empire be victorious.

OOC: Orders to be submitted and an Order of Battle Created as soon as possible.

OOC: Sounds fair. BTW, Hindenberg will die shortly, but for now his condition is being kept under wraps to keep morale up.

Sharina, almost done with the land simulation in Europe?

OOC: ALright we have a fair agreement. And yeah I was hoping for that, but thanks for putting any worries to rest. So we have an agreement. Now I gotta get to the secondary thing. I'll post it in a little bit.

[Haha, I haven't even posted half of the royal navy's strength :D

Those three ships are reserve 'home guard' ships.]

ooc. Where's the rest? I'm quite curious what I'm facing. :p

Just an update, the Eastern Portion of the Congo has been taken by Rebel Factions, the Force Publique, though inflicting heavy casualties on the various Rebel Factions, have been forced into the Western Portion of the Congo River Basin, and are grossly outnumbered by Echan's (Rebel General), the ARC's (Separate Force) and the local militia's forces. The numbers match up somthing like 5,000 to 28,000. However, I RP'd Belgium dispatching an expeditionary force of 15,000 some time ago, and they have arrived to reinforce the FP. (These 15,000 being European Soldiers, not FP, or the Colonial 'Soldiers' that acted more like raiders and mercenaries than soldiers.)

OOC: Sounds fair. BTW, Hindenberg will die shortly, but for now his condition is being kept under wraps to keep morale up.

Sharina, almost done with the land simulation in Europe?

Yes- instead of doing just the summer, I'm going to be doing the rest of 1918 (to simplify things and to allow us to catch up on stuff).

so do you want further orders, and will the battles be posted soon?

"I swear that these old machines put such a damper on a printer's job." He complained to the man in front of him. He was covered in used ink, trying to pull the posters out. "But they can't trace them like they can modern machines. No identifying clamp like the new machines have. THese old machines are that much closer to impossible to trace. And I was still able to muscle under and print them all. So... do whatever to distribute." He stated as he went back to his normal job, leaving the old antique to lay in the basement.

THe boys sent to spread the posters around were young, barely in their 10th year if a day. THey themselves ran around to dump the posters with propoganda posters for the war effort. The bins were easy enough to infiltrate, after all what major harm would come if someone just stole it? And what harm to a rebel would happen if he blew up little boys. So no one really checked the bins.

The boys who were paid to distribute the posters around town were paid little, and did their work at night. That way the propoganda posters telling everyone to buy war bonds or any other function would be up before everyone was concious.

More boys streamed across the border, some dropping the new poster to Poland and Germany. THe poster coming up along side propogand posters that were stating the evil British Empire.

All this writing for a simple poster that came up, making the boys who put it up snicker with laughter. Other boys felt they might get in trouble, and stuffe dthem into garbage cans. Their friends coming up from behind to put them right where they belonged. That meant when the people of Germany, Poland, or Austria-Hungary awoke, they saw the regular fare of posters. That they needed to enlist with the army, or that the war bonds paid the war. Or that the Serbian threat still loomed.

THen, all of a sudden they'd go to the new poster. Most snickered. A couple mothers covered their children's eyes. Some young men laughed out loud.

The poster itself was simple. The Emporer of AUstria Hungary was surrounded by a dozen guards of his elite squad. THey were all made to look like huge brutes with clubs. All of them had long mustaches that made them look like the villians out of some comedic silent films. THe Emporer himself was crouched in a corner, his arms pushing his knees to his chest, and it was quite obvious he'd wet himself. The single line at the bottom of the poster was this: "His Royal Highness of the Austrian Empire faces the troubling times." With one long laugh, the morning dawned with smiles.

The minute these posters were discovered, they were ripped down by hundreds of loyal citizens, leaving only a handful to be destroyed by the police and soldiers. Soon afterword, several pro-Emperor rallies were held by normal people, villifying the terrorists who attacked the Kaiser, burning effigies and makng their own pro-war posters.

OOC: of course, the people were working for the empire, but mostly it was a few people and the rest joined in

(I just found a neat little tidbit. Austria-hungary was the third largest SLav population in the world. RUssia was of course the first. But the second was Germany. THat means that their is a possible support for the rebellion inside Germany. Just a neat little fact I found while looking at populations)

Of course the man being hung in effigy happened to be a full blooded Austrian, which definetly did exactly what the rebels had planned. Put the cape in front of the bull so that it does not see the sword. The title of the Emporer was what was being cried out.
----

The pharmasist heard a knock on his bottom floor door as he put the last tight lid over the seperated chemicals. He sighed as he finished. Dealing with those chemicals, even when seperate was terrifying. His fingers opened the slip. "I'm sick. Why aren't you open?" THe man asked. "Because I am trying to work down here. WHy are you bothering me?"

"I need to feel better."

"So you need something that will cure your stuffy, sneezing, let you sleep kind of medicine then? Ehh. I have just the thing, but its secret."

"Yeah, secret medicines can definetly get bought by some company and they'd give you a 100 and then end up with millions."

"Please come in." THe man stated as the men outside filed in. That entire conversation had been the secret word. A single word could be repeated. A specific mission had a specific conversation with it. And now he was glad to be rid of this stuff. He felt nervous having it in his basement. The crates. One mistake and he'd be dead as a doornail. THe men knew to be careful as well as they carried the stuff into the night. Damn this was just nasty. Well he better join his family by getting out of town. The whole emperor talk, and what was about to come. It'd be nasty.
------
" ONE TWO THREE FOUR BETTER SAFETY IN OUR STORE!! ONE TWO THREE FOUR, BETTER SAFETY IN OUR STORE!!" THe woman had mounted that morning, (That morning after the earlier part) and started to protest in front of the legislative body building. THey were all young women, a huge banner stating that they wanted better safety precautions in their ammunition factory jobs. "THE EMPORER WOULD BE SHAMED IF HE SAW YOU ALL!!!" A woman in front shouted towards the group. Their banners also held pictures of the Emporer in kind poses that stated his hope for the common people.

Of course the whole protest was a lie. Young men were frightened by the executions down in Serbia, and so were their mothers. THe new recruits to the "Black Hand" were all working women. All of them young girls who were tired of their brothers being carted off to die or being recruited. So the protest had been created. The eyes of the nation were on the Emperor, what attempt on his life would be there. They never thought about the legislative body.

At the same time a few pregnant women were waiting outside the representatives who happened to be SLavic, outside their homes. THe instant they came out they made a commotion in order to draw them in, and distract them. A handful of Slav representatives, being kept out of the legislative building.

"Here." A few spindly men walked between the mass of women protesting. They were all there, about 2 to 3 hundred of them. All of them protesting in front. The police and soldiers manning machine guns preparing to throw them out. THey did allow representatives to go in, allowing them all and waiting to see when the last one trickled in.

"Bendiria?" One woman stated to a large woman who looked like she could carry a sledgehammer in each hand. SHe grinned as she grabbed a bottle of the strange concoction. She was in the middle, reaching back as women gave her room and then hucking it towards the machine gun emplacement. One and then two. Of course they wondered what it was, and aimed towards it, knowing in a few seconds they'd aim right into the crowd. One, two, three shots to hit it.

THe instant the chemicals met the air, they ignited. An old invention with a few modifications. It touched air and ignited, falling as one huge mass of flaming liquid onto the machine gunners. It burned, and stuck to skin, hair, clothes, anything it touched. It flamed in one huge flame as the women reached into the crates and started to chuck the things at police officers and soldiers. The flames licked forward. More women ran forward, holding two bottles each as they rushed. Some women ran out of the crowd with three or four in a belt, into the city. The rest kept a long line of bottles into the air, throwing them into windows, doors, and anything else to start the blaze.

Then the rest ran as the firetrucks came. A few grinning as they knew what was about to happen. One thing the firemen saw was blazing people, some of them women, and a building starting to go. They also learned that the chemical did not get put out with water. In fact water seemed to make it even angrier as it spread even faster, using water as a fuel. (It's a modern rendition of Greek Fire, which can not be put out with water and reacts violently with water. The Confederates used it during the Civil War, and burnt the Barnum Museum in new york. Give it oxygen and it's nasty. That's what they are throwing.)

The girls fanned out into the city of Vienna, at a run as they heard commotions. Some girls ran down the ethnic parts of the street. They shouted that people were coming, soldiers were coming. Slavs, Jews, and other races looked in awe as they saw something blazing outward. Soon the entire city would be in a panic. See the emporer control this.

Other girls ran into the richer sector of VIenna, and started to throw their blazing articles into the wealthy houses. Soldiers shot at them, some girls set on fire as their bottles broke, and then flung themselves at the soldiers to hug them in a deadly embrace.

A group of girls found a large luncheon of their factory owners. THe fact cats looking smug as they dined on food the working girls could only dream of. They ran forward into the resturant to wide eyed tycoons, throwing their flaming contents onto them, and then making sure to bean them on the head with a bottle before running out.

Girls were everywhere, small detatchments of two or three moving around and causing chaos. Then once they'd made sure to get families and one huge refugee line of poor out of the city, they'd bolt from the city.

If Margret Mitchell could see the city they planned to make, it would remind her of Atlanta after Sherman marched through. The few starting a chaotic mess that would try the city.

(With all your attention on the Emperor's life, you never said you upped security around the legislative body in Veinna or the rich. That left them wide open. So I just acted on it. And also created fires that are almost impossible to put out by regular means. So yes I am trying to burn the lovliest city to the ground)

The Emperor spoke today upon hearing of this horrible act, "We stand at the crossroads. On one side is victory, a better tommorrow for us all, with freedom for all. On the other hand is chaos, anarchy, and ruin. The Serb terrorists (always refer to them as Serbians, even when they're not to make a better image) are trying to undermine our nation by destroying our lovely capital of Vienna, even killing members that were elected by the people of this fine nation. We cannot, and will not allow this to happen!"

The Austro-Hungarian soldiers arrested 20,000 able-bodied males from Serbia and took them away. Meanwhile, in Belgrade, in the middle of the night, over one hundred members of the secret vigilante group Justice started hundreds of fires, helping them spread and killing anyone who tried to stop them. it was hard to discern them from normal Slavs because they were Slavs (OOC: Muslims and Croatians were much more loyal to the empire). Austro-Hungarian troops in the city were pulled out and surrounded the city while the fires raged and spread.

Meanwhile, to increase security, Austria-Hungary allowed women to join the police force, and nearly 15,000 joined within a week or so, and 15 divisions were allocated to defending all major cities.


OOC: well, you managed to bring me down to 276 divisions left.

ooc. Where's the rest? I'm quite curious what I'm facing. :p

[The prblem is that the royal navy is f'king huge, and I have to find fleet numbers and names to keep up the good stats I've already posted.

Not to mention that I've posted another thirty-odd ships there including the class-ship Dreadnought.]

[Are there any leaders tot his rebellion? Because Britain has some spare cash and can pay for soem pretty nasty acts of terrorism :D.]

(GOod luck finding them.)

THe problem that the Vigilante group "Justice" found was that no one believed they were the rebels. It wasn't that they weren't Slav looking, it was the fact that they were born with a peice of meat between their legs. Every person was learning from newspapers that those who tried to set fire to Vienna were all female. Not male. THe massive amount of males in "Justice" meant that they couldn't pretend to be the same group at all, and the attempt made people even more suspicious. WHo were these men not fighting for the army at all?

It started to get talking between the Slavs and other ethnic groups other than the Slavs. The Slavs were hearing news that the Austrian Hungarian throne was starting to bother other ethnic groups. Even the Jews of the distract were starting to show a mild support. And the 70% new recruits being female made them that much easier to hide.

As for the female police force, many were Austrian women of higher class skills. Unlike the heavy set working class women, they were much frailer, used to wearing skirts, and not having anywhere near the strength of the female steel workers. THe soldiers outside the city saw many trying to leave the fires. A slew of refugees, many of them Jew, Slav, Austrian, or any other number of races were trying to leave. A huge refugee line left, rebels inside the groups, unable to be distinguished due to the fact they were all dressed the same.

Gernot looked at the news. More men of Serbia were being taken. Did the Emporer not pay attention at all? What kind of moron was he? He wished the Serbians didn't have to suffer so much, but it also meant one thing. THe powder keg was about to explode.

Black Friday:Serbia

It was a normal day, a dozen women reporting to work as young men were frightened to be seen. A tussle began when a soldier grabbed a 14 year old boy. His mother pleaded and the crowd milling started to agree. It all began with a shot. A nervous soldier fired into the crowd, killing the old woman. The group of mixed steelworking women and other factory jobs charged the soldiers before they could respond, literally tearing them apart. Rifles, guns, everything was grabbed as the soldiers found themselves overwhelmed by sure numbers. Not a single person was not in the crowd. Women, young men not growing spines at seeing their sisters go, even old women were apart of the group. Serbia had not done a thing, the rebellion dead. Now it was all begining again. And it was massive. Young men weren't the only ones, it seemed the enitre population of Serbia was again at war, and now they were not at war, they were at a genocidal madness. Women tore at soldiers, taking little patrols apart and draggint ehri bodies through the street. Little enclaves and forts spent to cover a large populationb eing wiped out, those that could held in becoming isolated as railroads and telegrams torn down.

Serbian Front Open.

THe day afterwards a speach was spoken in front of a large group of women workers in Zazgreb, this one publicised as their were a few newspaper people. Her name was Anita. And she was 23 years old, a worker in a munitions factory, her skin a yellow color from the chemicals used.

"The emporer talks about freedom for all. And yet his democratic parliment is filled with nothing but the rich. That is our freedom. He has enslaved the Slav, the Jews, and all other races for a select few Austrians. AUstrians are less than 20% of the populations, and yet they make up 80% of the wealthy. That is our freedom." SHe coughed. "I have worked at the munitions factory. I am a SLav. And the thanks I got was a pink slip that said I was of no more use. That is the thanks our humble Emporer has made. That is our freedom. We women are the backs of this country. OUr men have been sent to dead, and those that didn't die are stolen in the night. They blame Serbia, and steal and execture their young men. And yet what proof do they have? Have they shown any proof to the world? No, they simply jump to conclusions."

"I am here today to say who did it. I did. My friends did it. We bombed the palace. It was not Serbians at all, but the AUstrian Hungarian citiziens. THose who are tired of subjugation. THis empire was built with our blood, and the Austrians have profitted it from it. All we ask is TRUE freedom. Is our own nation. We asked it before, we ask it again. Serbia is turning into a warzone, a war that Austria can never win. Today I simply make a statement. Give us our freedom, or we shall be forced to take it. Be known as the emperor who brought peace by realizing that centuries of subjugation bring nothing but sorrow. If he does, then a world of peace, of healing will be made in our country. No more shall Slav, Austrian, Jew, and Hungarian live in anger. They shall know that a peaceful emperor gave his people a wonderful gift."

She sounded hopeful on the platform, and then her vision turned dark. "Or bring a bloody civil war upon your very doorstep, that shall end in one thing. A day when this land is conquered by Germany and the Ottomans, and a German firing squad throws you and me against a wall, and pulls the trigger. We are getting weaker, do not think others have not noticed. Now we leave the decision up to the Emporer whether he wishes to listen or not. But, everyone here. Prepare for the worst. Freedom or death. ANd if we die, so shall this empire. It ends one way or the other." THe crowd cheered as she held her hand up in the air, coughing again.

OOC: Actually Austrian germans make up 22% of the population, because Serbia is not counted as a province yet. And unless that women was sick, she wouldn't have been thrown out, because war factories are hiring more al the time.

IC:

The Commander of Occupied Serbia read the note that had been delivered to him. One of his distant cousins had been killed when the women had begun burning down Vienna. A second letter told him his best friend had been torn apart by a crowd, and was barely even recognizable. He crumpled the two letters in anger and burst out of the tent, startling the two guards there. He drafted orders to all soldiers in Serbia. They were to pull out of all cities and towns.

Many soldiers had already retreated out of the cities, so the orders were handled rather quickly. Soliders began constructing 2 defensive lines, 1 surrounding the cities and the second father around the protect the rear areas and main trench. Many soldiers had experince, and at leats training to dig trenches, so the task was finished relatively easy, and several rows of barbed wire even went up.

Then came the next order: fire with everything in your arsenal. Hundreds of guns opened fire, pounding the cities and tearing apart buildings, killing thousands of people. After all the cities lay in ruins the guns ceased.

The message was clear: Serbia would remain a Austro-Hungarian province if they had to make it into a desert.

The Emperor reminded the people that they would remain free as long as they did not incite riots, join resistance groups, commit acts of violence or other "seditious acts".

Meanwhile, any attempting entry into any important building would be thoroughly searched by guards, and 10 of the trained divisions of Ukrainian soldiers began moving into Austria-Hungary to reinforce the Occupational army(I think by now there's 30 divisions al together trained, all volunteers)

OOC: If you study on the effects of ammunitions, there is this illness caused with the caustic nature of some of the explosive materials. It turns the skin yellow, and makes them very weak. Being a female worker, she'd be easily replaced when she couldn't do it. Lots of women to take her place. No I don't know the name of the illness. And 22% still isn't the majority.

IC: One problem arrived as the artillery barrage hit. Number one was that only half the expected deaths happened. Population hits being about 70,000 over the total line. That night as teh artillery started to land, the men in their lines heard digging. The next day they could see them, a banner made out of a sheet, another one of the old Serbian flag being hung up, as the women and young men started to dig a line of trenches.

Another thing that the men didn't have was time to remove all the ordinance. Old Serbian guns, some from musuems were pressed into service as the women dug and rebuilt the defenses, making one long line to border the Austrian forces. The message here was clear, if it turns into a desert, Austria will become one as well. Then it came, the city came to life as those not killed, the majority who hid in their basements during the barrage, showed the soldiers that artillery was nice on a non-dug in foe. But that it didn't kill the rage. Suddenly guns that were used 30 years ago opened on trenches that weren't fully developed. (You had like a handful of days. Not enough to make it too big.

THen it came. The Austrians learning one thing. Yes machine guns can stop a charge. Yes you can cause mass death. But when you have a city of over 200,000 people, and you kill 50,000. You can not hold the lines with a brigade. Austrian units despite being dug in were overrun, men clubbed to death, killed in their holes. The army couldn't contain an entire population. And though a million Serbians died, armies of Austrians simply ceased to exist as the entire cities fell on them. Artillery or not be damned. (Ok lets put it this way. You might have three divisions covering a population. But if that entire population attacks. Yeah you may kill 3 out of every 10 people. But that leaves the other seven who still outnumber you 100 to 1 to simply use pure weight of numbers. You have to pause to reload. And Austrians don't have nice 75's.)

Austrian Armies found it doubly painful as their lines of supply were attacked. And then came the end game. The invasion from the north. The Austrian armies were trying to contain the cities of Serbia. THey never watched their rear. The masses of people in Southern Austria Hungary who flooded over the border, smashing their bodies, tools, old guns (some from Napoleons time) And smashed right into the rear of the AUstrian Armies in Serbia. Supplies, governments, it didn't matter when a mass population of people who didn't care about death overran you. One million more would die, but whole Austrian armies would literally have to be taken off the rolls.

And the problem was, the more men killed, the more desertions by non-Austrian soldiers. In the country it got so bad that some regiments simply disappeared. Bosnians who normally were rather moot on the issue saw the newspapers crying over the death of bombed cities full of women and children, and rioted. Quickly cities that had low AUstrian populations found those populations wiped out as the loyal ethnic groups joined their masters. (I put it that the Austrian empire would have disbanded no matter what the outcome. It's pretty much inevitable historically. The question was when and how.)

Even worse were that SLav soldiers brought their wepaons with them. Artillery, machine guns, rifles. They'd steal as much as they could before they dragged, and there became way too many to stop. Young men, women, old men, old women. Austrian soldiers would soon find 10 year old snipers firing at them.

THen came a phrase, very simple on a flag. "Death to the Emporer." The people seeing each atrocity to make the Emporer Satan in their eyes. And the situation was unravelling even further.

(By the way, his health would be failing with all this stress. When is he just going to go kaput?)

OOC: you're forgetting the 5 divisions (75,000 soldiers) posted on the border, the fact that Muslims and Croatians were both very loyal to the empire (if you need evidence on that I will provide it)

I reserve the right to move after this has been clarified

EDIT: A few other things have come into my mind

1. The rebels have no training whatsoever, meaning that assaults that would carry on even after horrendous casualties are simply not feasible because the crowd will get slaughtered and the rest lose heart, even if they are angry. This also means that the casualty ratio is going to be horrendous for Serbians because they again have no training, and the artillery left behind will have little or none ammunition and be ancient.

2. Not a lot of soldiers would have deserted. if this crowd succeded in its attacks, then it wanted blood, and wasn't going to simply let some soldiers go. Also, I doubt the soldiers if being attacked by a bloodthirsty mob ready to tear them limb from limb would be not be surrendering.

3. This is a semi-seperate point. Most of these attacks would have been gutted and there probably won't be a whole lot of people left still ready for battle. The crowds are coming for most of the way across pen ground against well trained soldiers and artillery that's firing over open sights (and even though we may not have 75's, 230mm guns firing over open sights do not make for a pretty situation).

4. The yellow skin condition is I believe called jaundice and most women got over from it after a while, and not a lot were actually fired.

5. The Emperor has been spared the worst of the information by high ranking generals who are taking care of some of it

2nd EDIT:

6. The number of deaths and seriously wounded will be extremly high because not only are the Serbians simply charging, they have no medical care besides a few doctors and nurses

7. The cream of the rebllion and of young men and women will be devestated, because that's who's overwhelmingly charging and the moderates may be pushed to simply reach an agreement with the Austro-Hungarians

This may be edited a few more times, depending on whether or not I get more ideas

OOC: you're forgetting the 5 divisions (75,000 soldiers) posted on the border, the fact that Muslims and Croatians were both very loyal to the empire (if you need evidence on that I will provide it)

OOC: Please, show us this evidence you have. I would be glad to see it.

1. The rebels have no training whatsoever, meaning that assaults that would carry on even after horrendous casualties are simply not feasible because the crowd will get slaughtered and the rest lose heart, even if they are angry. This also means that the casualty ratio is going to be horrendous for Serbians because they again have no training, and the artillery left behind will have little or none ammunition and be ancient.

That's not neccisarily ture. I would imagine that the majority of those participating in these riots would be ex-military personnel from the Serbian Army and members of the Narodna Obrana, which do have limited training in the effective use of small arms.

Furthermore, being that the operation of a standard rifle or pistol is not that complicated and that these battles are taking place in an urban setting, casualties on both sides will be terrible as both sides have never recieved any training whatsoever pertaining to Urban warfare.

Thus, like in the pitched street to street battles between US Army Rangers and Somali Militia in Mogadishu in 1993, superior weapons and organization, if not specifically designed for urban combat (in which the idea of 'Urban combat' does not even exsist in this time period), will quickly fall apart and heavy casualties will be taken.

2. Not a lot of soldiers would have deserted. if this crowd succeded in its attacks, then it wanted blood, and wasn't going to simply let some soldiers go. Also, I doubt the soldiers if being attacked by a bloodthirsty mob ready to tear them limb from limb would be not be surrendering.

They may not be surrendering to the mob per se, but I firmly believe that various units, once their positions were overrun, would break ranks in an attempt to escape that same blood-thirsty mob, thus rendering them useless. Of course, some could have been rallied by more competent commanders, but due to the chaotic circumstances of the battle field, I would imagine that many Austrians would break ranks.

3. This is a semi-seperate point. Most of these attacks would have been gutted and there probably won't be a whole lot of people left still ready for battle. The crowds are coming for most of the way across pen ground against well trained soldiers and artillery that's firing over open sights (and even though we may not have 75's, 230mm guns firing over open sights do not make for a pretty situation).

Well trained soldiers, eh? Again, they could be the creme-de-la-creme of WWI armies, but with only Napoleonic tactics under their belt and slow firing bolt-action weapons in their hands, they will be slaughtered as their lines are broken from all around them.

As for Artillery, you will most likely kill just as many of your own soldiers as you would rioters. I mean a 75mm gun in close-combat operations! That's practically suicidal.

6. The number of deaths and seriously wounded will be extremly high because not only are the Serbians simply charging, they have no medical care besides a few doctors and nurses

And don't think the armies you've deployed here are just bristling full of doctors. After all, this attack was sudden, violent and in a very different enviroment that what is typically expected. Thus, it would be quite some time before any sizeable field hospitals could be established and they would most likely be far away from the action (outside the city).

Plus, I would imagine that the majority of your Doctors are currently serving on the Western Front as either officers or surgeons. Thus, your already medically handicapped right from the get-go.

7. The cream of the rebllion and of young men and women will be devestated, because that's who's overwhelmingly charging and the moderates may be pushed to simply reach an agreement with the Austro-Hungarians

Devastated? Let us take a look back at the Storming of the Bastille in 1789. A bunch of disgruntled men and women charged head on into French soldiers who were equipped with better weapons, were better organized, and had a well-fortified position, but that didn't save them from their fate.

Indeed, I believe it was the French Tri-colour that was raised over the fortress that day, the product of a head-on charge into enemy positions.

OOC: Please, show us this evidence you have. I would be glad to see it.



That's not neccisarily ture. I would imagine that the majority of those participating in these riots would be ex-military personnel from the Serbian Army and members of the Narodna Obrana, which do have limited training in the effective use of small arms.

Furthermore, being that the operation of a standard rifle or pistol is not that complicated and that these battles are taking place in an urban setting, casualties on both sides will be terrible as both sides have never recieved any training whatsoever pertaining to Urban warfare.

Thus, like in the pitched street to street battles between US Army Rangers and Somali Militia in Mogadishu in 1993, superior weapons and organization, if not specifically designed for urban combat (in which the idea of 'Urban combat' does not even exsist in this time period), will quickly fall apart and heavy casualties will be taken.



They may not be surrendering to the mob per se, but I firmly believe that various units, once their positions were overrun, would break ranks in an attempt to escape that same blood-thirsty mob, thus rendering them useless. Of course, some could have been rallied by more competent commanders, but due to the chaotic circumstances of the battle field, I would imagine that many Austrians would break ranks.



Well trained soldiers, eh? Again, they could be the creme-de-la-creme of WWI armies, but with only Napoleonic tactics under their belt and slow firing bolt-action weapons in their hands, they will be slaughtered as their lines are broken from all around them.

As for Artillery, you will most likely kill just as many of your own soldiers as you would rioters. I mean a 75mm gun in close-combat operations! That's practically suicidal.



And don't think the armies you've deployed here are just bristling full of doctors. After all, this attack was sudden, violent and in a very different enviroment that what is typically expected. Thus, it would be quite some time before any sizeable field hospitals could be established and they would most likely be far away from the action (outside the city).

Plus, I would imagine that the majority of your Doctors are currently serving on the Western Front as either officers or surgeons. Thus, your already medically handicapped right from the get-go.



Devastated? Let us take a look back at the Storming of the Bastille in 1789. A bunch of disgruntled men and women charged head on into French soldiers who were equipped with better weapons, were better organized, and had a well-fortified position, but that didn't save them from their fate.

Indeed, I believe it was the French Tri-colour that was raised over the fortress that day, the product of a head-on charge into enemy positions.

The following excerpt is from John Keegan's book, The First World War: "The Catholic Croats had a long history of loyalt to the empire, whic many of them retained; the Poles, hating the Russians, distrusting the Germans, and enjoying large electoral and social priveleges under the kaiser were Kaisertreu; the the Bosnian Muslims, sequestered in special, semi-sepoy regiments were dependable."
in addition, Keegan also mentioned this later on in the book, "...The leading Austrian formation was the First Army, largely composed of Slovaks from Pressburg (Bratislava) and Poles from Cracow, both Catholic" before you make an assumption, here's what happened at the battle, "they fought fiercly for their Catholic Emperor in a three-day battle against the Russian Fourth Army"

1. Most military perosnel are either dead, in prison camps (the Austrians refrained from releasing them until the end of all wars) or have fled, as they did in RL. Also, these battles are not taking place in an urban setting, they pulled out of the cities and began bombarding them.

2. The units would fall back, probably some units collapsing, but would have been rallied, and the rebels were in no condition to follow them.

3. The civilians have no training at all, they're charging across open ground against shell fire, and soldiers are trained to fire 10 rounds a minute. As for artillery, it doesn't hit soldiers, over open sights is when the enemy is close enough that range is useless so gunners fire directly at the charging mass, which again is going against open ground.

6. You'll notice I never said I would have lower casualties, I was poitning out that the Serbians have little medical capabilities .

7. Completely different situation. The Bastille had only 32 guards in the entire place, with muskets, and I have machine guns and artillery. It's interesting to note however, that even though the garrison surrendered, 98 people attacking he Bastille were killed, and only 1 guard was.

double post

Let me give an example. A city has a population of 100,000 with 20,000 soldiers surrounding it. 10,000 soldiers are in the inner trench around the city, while the other 10,000 are in the outer trench. It should be noted that while the 10,000 men in the outer trench have more ground to cover, they have more time to prepare defences and will be bolstered by soldiers retreating. The bombardment kills or wounds approximately 20,000 people (they didn't stop until the cities were ruined, not everyone had basements and the basements wouldn't have been prepared for big gun shellfire) Assumin the rest of the population is angry and wants blood (even 85 year old men and 6 year old girls) they'll all attack. There's now 80,000 men vs. 10,000 with machine guns, artillery and rifles. They're now charging a good distance across relatively open ground packed together. This makes them excellent targets for every gun on the line, and once their out of trajectory, the guns are brought up and fire canister shells slaughtering groups of them while rifles and machine guns do their damage. Now artillery doesn't exactly carry a lot of canister (although these pieces amy have more do to their situation and the fact that many regular rounds are moving to the front, so to make up the ammunition they add canister), so after running out they would probably fire a few regular rounds and then fall back. So now it's people charging against the 10,000 troops. Around 20,000 or so would have been killed while making it there. Then figure 7,500 soldier and 9,000 civilians die in hand-to hand (soldiers have better training and weapons), while the other 2,500 make it back to bolster the outer trench to 12,500 suppourted by some artillery. There are now 51,000 civilians (again assuming the entire population is charging) attacking factor in another 30,000 casualties between charging and hand to hand. This now leaves 21,000 civilians left in the entire city left, with about 5,000 to 7,500 soldiers left and artillery (which would have fallen back once they were in danger because they had no more ammunition).

Now, with 21,000 people left, there wil only be 1 or 2 thousand who are not only in a position to fight but are willing to (the most able-bodied and radical would have led the charge and would have been able to continue on while children and seniors would have fallen back or slowed down).

hmm

MAYBE WE SHOULD JUST RETURN TO RPING OURSELVES

Seems a bit slow around here... I really hope this doesnt die just as I finish RP'ing my ass off to finish the Revolution.

haha

BUMP

One Wekend away and this RP is slowly dying... Sad.

yea, very sad. On the other hand, World War IV is about to break out in E20, so plenty of excitement there

yea, very sad. On the other hand, World War IV is about to break out in E20, so plenty of excitement there

oh, I am ecstatic

and the reason this is dying is because we had Sharina do the fighting for us and he hasn't.

You are also forgetting the massive amounts of rioting behind the lines. And that even with your loyal troops, you are still only talking about 35% of the population. Muslims and Croations were always a small part of the population.

Secondly, Austrian Hungarian troops were extremelly terrible. Russian armies were wiping the floor with Austria Hungarian Armies before Germany took over the war for them. Remember that the victorories of Austria Hungary didn't happen until they got a corp of steel of German soldiers. THis is something you lack entirely. That means you are the leader of a country whose soldiers are THE WORST of all the fighting countries. Even the Turks had better troops. It's a fact of the way the empire worked. And so, with thousands of mobs in your rear, front, back, it's purely simple. yes I'll take horrible casualties, but the popular front against the Emporer will grow because you fired blindly into a city. So those dead will be repalced. While massive amounts of desertions (Look at the Union army to see how easy desertion can cripple an army even if it is a volenteer army.) A handful of men is easy to contain in desertion. Every soldier whose not Austrian, Croation, and Muslim leaving the ranks though, is not containable at all. Therefore you find yourself in a situation. Yes you have every single city in the country under control. But each city is a besieged garrison as soldiers are leaving in droves, and civilians are picking up arms.

And yes if only the charging civilians had been all that attacked, but those in the rear would collapse many of your armies. It'[s simple/ I take heavy casualties, but I wipe out armies with the sacrifice. As Stalin told his commanders, yes you are losing heavily, but we have more people than they have bullets. And with horrible troops, (That 5 years of change couldn't change no matter what you want.) Then it's a simple act. I didn't plan to win this by force of arms. I planned to let the Emporer make himself look like a huge hypocrit, and in the end turn every race besides the most loyal against him. In the end I have succeeded in doing that. Shelling cities without an attempt to seperate regular civilians from rebels is seen as barbaric. And then saying you can keep your freedom as long as you do as I say is hypocritical. In effect you now have a country degrading into one huge gurrilla war with no way to actually keep your men supplied in Serbia. Even if I didn't break through, soon your Serbian troops will have stripped all they can from the area and will starve and run out of ammo. Besieged besiegers. Happens. So that is what I say.

And dying? Hmmm well I tried to do some stuff. And truthfully can the others come on. I really don't like picking on Han it seems. I thank him for responding with such enthusiasm after all.

You are also forgetting the massive amounts of rioting behind the lines. And that even with your loyal troops, you are still only talking about 35% of the population. Muslims and Croations were always a small part of the population.

Secondly, Austrian Hungarian troops were extremelly terrible. Russian armies were wiping the floor with Austria Hungarian Armies before Germany took over the war for them. Remember that the victorories of Austria Hungary didn't happen until they got a corp of steel of German soldiers. THis is something you lack entirely. That means you are the leader of a country whose soldiers are THE WORST of all the fighting countries. Even the Turks had better troops. It's a fact of the way the empire worked. And so, with thousands of mobs in your rear, front, back, it's purely simple. yes I'll take horrible casualties, but the popular front against the Emporer will grow because you fired blindly into a city. So those dead will be repalced. While massive amounts of desertions (Look at the Union army to see how easy desertion can cripple an army even if it is a volenteer army.) A handful of men is easy to contain in desertion. Every soldier whose not Austrian, Croation, and Muslim leaving the ranks though, is not containable at all. Therefore you find yourself in a situation. Yes you have every single city in the country under control. But each city is a besieged garrison as soldiers are leaving in droves, and civilians are picking up arms.

And yes if only the charging civilians had been all that attacked, but those in the rear would collapse many of your armies. It'[s simple/ I take heavy casualties, but I wipe out armies with the sacrifice. As Stalin told his commanders, yes you are losing heavily, but we have more people than they have bullets. And with horrible troops, (That 5 years of change couldn't change no matter what you want.) Then it's a simple act. I didn't plan to win this by force of arms. I planned to let the Emporer make himself look like a huge hypocrit, and in the end turn every race besides the most loyal against him. In the end I have succeeded in doing that. Shelling cities without an attempt to seperate regular civilians from rebels is seen as barbaric. And then saying you can keep your freedom as long as you do as I say is hypocritical. In effect you now have a country degrading into one huge gurrilla war with no way to actually keep your men supplied in Serbia. Even if I didn't break through, soon your Serbian troops will have stripped all they can from the area and will starve and run out of ammo. Besieged besiegers. Happens. So that is what I say.

And dying? Hmmm well I tried to do some stuff. And truthfully can the others come on. I really don't like picking on Han it seems. I thank him for responding with such enthusiasm after all.

okay, this game seems sort of dead (which I sadly don't really mind, another big World War is cropping up elsewere and commands my attention).

Once again, my deepest apologies for delayed war gaming- I have had my hands full with a potential World War 4 in E20 (Earth 1900-2000). Now that the war seems like it *MIGHT* be averted, at least for my nation in E20 I might have more time to attend to other RP's like this one.

Haneastic and Koryan knows what I'm talking about.

Besides, I'm finding it more and more difficult to focus on war gaming for AoI while I have a ton of things to do for E20 and potentially one or two other RP's.

understood

Well I hope it isn't, but I am waiting for stuff to be uhhh taken care of.

I TG'd my invasion orders, but it seems that theyre never gonna be played out.

Sharina is very busy with E20 stuff.