NationStates Jolt Archive

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v145/KGBFaTaLsHoT/Gun%20Pictures/78587copy.png

Weight: 4.2 Pounds/LBS
Length: 1030 mm
RPM:
Slowest Clock - 600 RPM
Normal Clock - 1800 RPM
Fasted Clock - 2000 RPM used on 3 round burst
Magazine: 60 or 120 Detachable Flat Mag
Barrel lenght: 650 mm, 24 Inches
Action: Full Auto, 3 Round Burst, Semi-Auto, Manual, Safety
Caliber: 4.7 x 33 Caseless
Maximum Range:
1470 meters W/ Armor Piercing-incendiary-tracer
2400 meters Ball standard FMJ
Barrel Twist Rate: once per 9 inches
Maximum Wear and Tear: Every 560,000 rounds
Effective Range: 1000 Meters

Composite Structure Explained: Using highly durable plastics such as Kevlar, and Vectran Re-enforced plates to make corrosion almost a thing of the past even in the most harsh environments. Alumna-Oxide makes up the barrel, chamber and other integral internal parts for it's super lightweight and insanely high melting temperature. Near that of diamonds, and as for the 60 round clip the minimal 4.7 millimeter is very ergonomic as well as keeping it's deadly abilities. Even at it's maximum range in testing at 3400 meters the bullet plowed through a American Military standard issue helmet because of the immense muzzle velocity as none of the escaping gasses are let out. It is also extremely reliable due to the fact that it is impossible to jam; doesn't use the complex bullet mechanism used in the G11, and has ample room for parts to move in and the immense heat or super cold temperatures it can withstand. Also because of it's lower than 2000 RPM clock rate for sustained fire you no longer risk mis-fires. Also ample room behind the grip and trigger is given to the magazine so loading is an easy and quick task. It also comes with a delayed recoil system in which the barrel reciprocates separately from the gun into the body of the gun to have the recoil softened by a small set of springs and air. Which, when the barrel is forced back from recoil; the air is compressed and softens the blow. After which is let out under the butt stock killing recoil dead; well on single shot or 3 round burst that is. To make for more accessability and conveniance it also sports a universal sling mount similar to that of the M60 Mk.2 . Also a Muzzle Break similar to the ground breaking and so far at the forefront of Muzzle Break technology similar to that of the AK-101 or something to that effect as it is in the Kalashnikov series which points the gasses at a 45 degree angle compensating for recoil and for the rise of the gun. When coupled with all of these other systems it manages to almost fully kill recoil dead leaving to feeling the power to that of a low end low grain .35 special bullet.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v145/KGBFaTaLsHoT/Gun%20Pictures/tgp250_Black.jpg

Great Grip Features:
Developed by our competition shooter to improve shooter accuracy, these are a must have for Military and Law Enforcement personnel. The anti-slip surface provides a friction grip that makes take-away or loss of control in violent situations less likely.

• Unique Semi-Permanent Anti-Slip Material
• Works in All Weather Conditions: Water, Mud, Snow, Slime
• Excellent for Sweaty, Oily & Gloved Hands
• Install or Remove in Seconds
• Leaves No Sticky Residue on Weapon
• Applies easily over factory grips and plates
• Made in the Valens
• Pack of 3 Spares

Colors: (03) Black; (06) Sand/Tan

The grips are made from a patented and undiclosed material; this grip makes up the foregrip and stock as well as regular grip areas.

(Sorry for any spelling mistakes, and or cloudy sentence structure... I'm just really fucking tired and stressed out right now.)

Price: $2,000 USD

Accessories: Anything mountable upon a RAIL/Pincatty mount. Which includes scopes and bayonettes.

and or for an extra 5k

A 6x computerized sight; easily interchangeable in magnifaction of the lenses and can be mounted upon the RAIL system. Is to make this rifle one of the most firesom on the battlefield. Using dual core AMD 3.6 Gigahertz chipset at full clock coupled with TTFT's to minimize size; heat, possible damage, and weight to make a targeting computer 10x + faster than any other targeting computer. IR Sights are included/built in as well as NV. After aquiring size, threat, and range of a target a threat assessment is made as well as a cursor over thier bodies which compensates for distance; speed, height, range, windage, bullet-bore etc, etc all you do is have to put your sights over the cursor and pull the trigger..

OOC: Can't belive nobody wants an assault rifle which can spit out bullets near the speed on a Minigun with Sniper-Accuracy and little to no recoil, a 60 round clip, light weight and more reliable than an AK-47

OOC: That's exactly why. Doesn't seem all that feasible, unless it's PMT.

OOC: Try getting a better picture of the rifle. That might help.

OOC: Can't belive nobody wants an assault rifle which can spit out bullets near the speed on a Minigun with Sniper-Accuracy and little to no recoil, a 60 round clip, light weight and more reliable than an AK-47
That's because we can't believe that it is possible :/

OOC: It's entirely feasable because
1. The G11 faces many complications on simple fact the bullet turning system, at 3 round burst it fires at an astounding 2000 RPM but at full auro it decreases to 600 RPM. Getting rid of the bullet turn system risks misfires AT 2000 RPM or more, at 1800 RPM it's safe for full auto though shoots 200 rounds slower than when on 3 round burst and doesn't risk mis fires, or lowering RPM's.

2. Can shoot at sustained fire and take 560 hundred thousand rounds as it's life span because Alumina-Oxide is 3x stronger than steel and has a melting temprature near that of diamonds.

3. Because of it's rather large size and 24 inch barrel it is hugely accurate and because of it's small bullet caliber though it lacks the range of .50 BMG rounds.

4. Because it isn't gas operated like other assault rifles and because the casing falls out rapidly escaping gasses are lost which can contribute to much higher muzzle velocities

5. Delayed recoil systems are already on many guns, tanks, and IS on the G11...

Modern Tech...

That's because we can't believe that it is possible :/OOC: "I've already had an arguement with you about this and you lost, horribly, and started crying about the 6mm rifle cartrige and then I proved you wrong. You made an entire topic about it remember. On my Sparta Infensus account...."

OOC: It's entirely feasable because
1. The G11 faces many complications on simple fact the bullet turning system, at 3 round burst it fires at an astounding 2000 RPM but at full auro it decreases to 600 RPM. Getting rid of the bullet turn system risks misfires AT 2000 RPM or more, at 1800 RPM it's safe for full auto though shoots 200 rounds slower than when on 3 round burst and doesn't risk mis fires, or lowering RPM's.

2. Can shoot at sustained fire and take 560 hundred thousand rounds as it's life span because Alumina-Oxide is 3x stronger than steel and has a melting temprature near that of diamonds.

3. Because of it's rather large size and 24 inch barrel it is hugely accurate and because of it's small bullet caliber though it lacks the range of .50 BMG rounds.

4. Because it isn't gas operated like other assault rifles and because the casing falls out rapidly escaping gasses are lost which can contribute to much higher muzzle velocities

5. Delayed recoil systems are already on many guns, tanks, and IS on the G11...

Modern Tech...
Now how many times would you have to pull the trigger to get 2000 rpm with 3-round bursts...
It'd have to be made out of something probaly expensive to have that high a melting point.
It's accuracy would get jarred anyway by firing that many rounds, recoil or no, even sniper rifles move when you fire them.
Why would you have a sniper MG anyway, since regular MGs do the job of spraying down areas for a much cheaper job. Snipers serve their own purpose.

well, it fires a bullet that my country doesn't have any stocks of, and it is trying to compete with the $50 AK-47 and $60 M-16. Both of which use fairly common ammunition.

4.7 mm caseless

A lightwieght Heavy Machine gun or Sniper rifle on the other hand might sell at the price you are offering.

Simple math:
for $2,800 USD (the price of one of your guns)
I could get
30 or so M-16s

and let's say 25% of them, due to shoddy workmanship, jam by the second clip. (8) and take 10 seconds to clear their chambers.

22 M-16 firing at a modest 11,000 rpm (500 rpm each M-16) and 660 rounds in their clips (30 round clips)

And 30 soldiers to kill to silence the 'gun' And can engage multiple targets at once. (about 15 directions covered)

Vs

One gun firing at 1600 Rpm, jams on every 10000th round, and needs another clip change every mere 120 rounds.

And one well aimed bullet puts the gun out of action. And may only enfgage the enemy one clump at a time. (one direction at a time)

Of course this is ignoring the logistical tail for feeding and training those 30 men vs the one, and the much higher 'signature' a 30 man group would leave marching around on covert operations.

This last bit mentioned, PROHT shall 'evaluate' 150 examples of your gun in urban warfare enviroments. May you give it a belt feed kit (lke the Peterson kit issued for the M1903 Springfield SAW/standard bolt action rifle)

OOC: Multiperpose rifle, 24 inch barrel for sniping; 3 round burst is extremel accurate watch the G11 sniping video. Google the G11

http://www.rense.com/1.imagesC/clearalum.jpg

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Thats Alumina-Oxide, it's 3x stronger than steel 42% lighter, and has a melting point near diamonds. Also costs cents literally, to make... Google shit before you talk... Please Amazonian Beast?

Ok, now you just really turned me off...

It'd also probaly weigh a bit more...and the XM-29 seems like a better buy for a standard infantry weapon.

well, it fires a bullet that my country doesn't have any stocks of, and it is trying to compete with the $50 AK-47 and $60 M-16. Both of which use fairly common ammunition.

4.7 mm caseless

A lightwieght Heavy Machine gun or Sniper rifle on the other hand might sell at the price you are offering.

Simple math:
for $2,800 USD (the price of one of your guns)
I could get
30 or so M-16s

and let's say 25% of them, due to shoddy workmanship, jam by the second clip. (8) and take 10 seconds to clear their chambers.

22 M-16 firing at a modest 11,000 rpm (500 rpm each M-16) and 660 rounds in their clips (30 round clips)

And 30 soldiers to kill to silence the 'gun' And can engage multiple targets at once. (about 15 directions covered)

Vs

One gun firing at 1600 Rpm, jams on every 10000th round, and needs another clip change every mere 120 rounds.

And one well aimed bullet puts the gun out of action. And may only enfgage the enemy one clump at a time. (one direction at a time)

Of course this is ignoring the logistical tail for feeding and training those 30 men vs the one, and the much higher 'signature' a 30 man group would leave marching around on covert operations.

This last bit mentioned, PROHT shall 'evaluate' 150 examples of your gun in urban warfare enviroments. May you give it a belt feed kit (lke the Peterson kit issued for the M1903 Springfield SAW/standard bolt action rifle)OOC: Lern 2 reed

4.7 CASELESS nuff said....

Just quoting the open market on NS.

And the cost I used was the one you gave.

Still planning on buying 150 G-11s because of the reasons presented in my earlier post.

And would like to hear about the possability of a dual feed option kit (belt or clip).

Ok, now you just really turned me off...

It'd also probaly weigh a bit more...and the XM-29 seems like a better buy for a standard infantry weapon.OOC: Lern 2 reed

It uses Alumina-Oxide and highly durable plastics both of which are retardedly light; if anything it should weigh less but then recoil would be a bit more of a problem; all of you guys spamming MY topic is really going to F'up sales thank you. You might want to read the article; also there is no way you people produce XM-29's for cheaper. It's impossible without not making any profit.

I don't get why you people argue realism why you buy and shell crap a lot more unrealistic. While this on the otherhand if you actually read the article instead of spamming my god damn topic, is entirely feasable.

Just quoting the open market on NS.

And the cost I used was the one you gave.

Still planning on buying 150 G-11s because of the reasons presented in my earlier post.

And would like to hear about the possability of a dual feed option kit (belt or clip).OOC: I'll make a belt feed ability with a 1000 round box just for you alrighty hunneh?

It's also not a good idea to insult potential customers...nonetheless, arguing with you I see is a completely pointless waste of my time.

OOC: You started the arguement; argueing with a person whom you plan to buy from means that you never had the intent to buy. ;)

Seriously though, people on this site think and or google before they speak. Please just next time when you see something you don't know about just google it. Thats what I do, and it saves bandwith, and from future flaming. I never intended on argueing with you. Or with anybody on that matter but the flames just started flowing in and I got peeved off having to re-instate my self several dozen times.

Not neccessarily. A decent, persuasive explanation can easily win over a customer (whoops, sorry, that's business!).

OOC: I'll make a belt feed ability with a 1000 round box just for you alrighty hunneh? Oooh, could I get some of those? I could use a few LMG's. I'll buy 10,000 off you.

I saw no insult, (at least not directed to me, even after some rather harsh critisisms) PROHT is wiring the money now. Plus tips.
$420,000 SRP

$500,000 wired.

PROHT shall undoubtedly make good use of these fine specimens... er... guns.

Oooh, could I get some of those? I could use a few LMG's. I'll buy 10,000 off you.

Several C5 Galaxy's loaded to the brim with these weapons in wooden crates started off towards Kubra also waiting for the sum of these weapons being.

$ 28,000,000 USD

Meanwhile they were taking care of other orders.

Several C5 Galaxy's loaded to the brim with these weapons in wooden crates started off towards Kubra also waiting for the sum of these weapons being.

$ 28,000,000 USD

Meanwhile they were taking care of other orders. In Kubra, the bank was preparing the money. It would be sent via ship to Valens Res Republica.

I saw no insult, (at least not directed to me, even after some rather harsh critisisms) PROHT is wiring the money now. Plus tips.
$420,000 SRP

$500,000 wired.

PROHT shall undoubtedly make good use of these fine specimens... er... guns.
As 15 guns were sent, they were sent with 15 electronic scopes meant for computing sniper shots on the go with NV, IR, and treat assessment computer valued at 2k each, were sent because of the tip for free.

These were sent in C5 Galaxy's to PROHT as well.

The ship carrying the money sialked across the ocean. It's destination was a Valens Res Republica port. Very soon, it would reach its destination.

OOC: Pretty unrealistic. While having no ejection port increases muzzle velocity, it also increases recoil. You make a really light gun, with a style that increases recoil, that fires faster than all other in use assault rifles in the world, and you must use a large amount of powder to drive the bullet that far, that accurate. The recoil would be, felt, probably around that of an ak-47 per bullet, since the G11, using the same sized bullet, with a nearly same sized barrel, only got a 400m effective range. You are more than quadrupling the range on it.

Money has reached your docks safely. We hope you have a nice day.

Money has reached your docks safely. We hope you have a nice day.

a bunch of drivel

yea ok .... anyone who uses this rifle which has "the accuracy of a sniper rifle and the rate of fire of minigun" is going to be ignored as are you.... And I won the last argument hands down and you just CRIED about it.
So I will not be talking with you any longer as I have added your nation to my ignore list, again. :p

OOC: Pretty unrealistic. While having no ejection port increases muzzle velocity, it also increases recoil. You make a really light gun, with a style that increases recoil, that fires faster than all other in use assault rifles in the world, and you must use a large amount of powder to drive the bullet that far, that accurate. The recoil would be, felt, probably around that of an ak-47 per bullet, since the G11, using the same sized bullet, with a nearly same sized barrel, only got a 400m effective range. You are more than quadrupling the range on it.OOC: Hence I have a delayed recoil system. Which instead kills recoil dead.

lern 2 r33d

yea ok .... anyone who uses this rifle which has "the accuracy of a sniper rifle and the rate of fire of minigun" is going to be ignored as are you.... And I won the last argument hands down and you just CRIED about it.
So I will not be talking with you any longer as I have added your nation to my ignore list, again. :pOOC: Somebodys jelous that I actually pulled off 'having the accuracy of a sniper rifle and the rate of fire of minigun' =P

the Dleayed recoil doesn't 'Kill Recoil Dead' it just DELAYS it (maybe you should 'lern 2 read') so while, in a 3rd burst or automatic fire mode (esp. 3rd burst, because of the uber high RoF) the recoil of the first round or two is not felt until after the third round has left the chamber. wich means that the first three rounds will be unaffected by recoil. the recoil, while lessened by the delay and by shock absorbing features built into the G-11, still happens.

You can't totally do away with recoil unless you expell something with equal KE (mass*velocity) in the opposite direction to the firing of the bullet.

OOC: All a delayed recoil system is; is springs. My delayed recoil system includes air which compresses as the energy from the recoil is applied. When enough force is applied the air is let out so that it's not felt.

As I said, mine kills recoil dead; it's coupled with a normal delayed recoil system.

the G-11 recoil delay system is atually rollers+springs, the rollers let the 'action' physically move backwards in the case (which gives the G-11 its funny apperance)

compressing air won't get rid of the recoil, their is still physically mass moving in reaction to the firing of the bullet and unless that momentum is applied somehow externally to the weapon then there will be recoil, you can't beat the Third Law of Motion, trust me, its been tried.

OOC: Well compressing the air would help eliminate the recoil; no? Here I want to continue this arguement; and I will pick it up tommorrow as for now. I'm tired and am going to sleep. Thanks for the insight though.

it would help yes, but it would be pretty inefficient, espescially in size and weight, and it still wouldn't completely eliminate the recoil

What i would like to know is how you take a round that is more or less stops beign effective at a max of about 400m and make it effective over 3kms...
(from what i can see the common effective rnage for a round is the one at which it still retains 500ft lbs of energy also the 4.7mm roudns tops being super sonic at about 1000m which isn't great)

So unless you have managed to improve the powder charge by about 5x giving your weapon more muzzle energy than a .338 lapua magnum i really don't see where you get your perfromance figures.

Of course if you have tragectory and ballaistics data please feel free to prove me wrong.

Also what exact loading/feeding mechanism does your weapon use? and how do you clear a dud round?

I'm not professional enough to start debating the details with anyone, but this gun still appears to me as a nice, original design, in which several problems of the RL guns have been pretty well solved.

The effective range is something what I'm not so sure about, though. As stated above, to make a bullet fly further and faster than before, you need to put more pow(d)er into the cartridge. Which increases weight and recoil, making it less useful in close quarters. You haven't done that, and I just can't see where does all that thrusting power come from.
Other than that, I do think this is a well-working consept and would indeed purchase some, if there wasn't this issue with the cartridge. See, even though the caseless has proven to be highly effective in assault rifles (less so in higher calibre weapons though) I, like many others, happen to have stunning stockpiles of some other ammunition. To completely change the standard calibre of my army, I would need several other weapons - most notably a real GP machinegun - using 4.7mm also due the logistical difficulties that come with having too much variation in the used ammunition of one unit.
So, if we'd give up of our 6.5mm it would require the whole scale of infantry weapons beign designed. And be just insanely expencive.

By the way, I have never really understood the idea of trying to put all three - a sniper, light MG and assault rifle - into one weapon. If you want them all, it will not be THE BEST in none of them. Best machineguns are indeed made to be machineguns from the beginning, and that's equally true with sniper rifles, submachine guns and assault rifles as well. Or atleast that's my opinion of it.

Anyways, keep up the good work!

What i would like to know is how you take a round that is more or less stops beign effective at a max of about 400m and make it effective over 3kms...
(from what i can see the common effective rnage for a round is the one at which it still retains 500ft lbs of energy also the 4.7mm roudns tops being super sonic at about 1000m which isn't great)

So unless you have managed to improve the powder charge by about 5x giving your weapon more muzzle energy than a .338 lapua magnum i really don't see where you get your perfromance figures.

Of course if you have tragectory and ballaistics data please feel free to prove me wrong.

Also what exact loading/feeding mechanism does your weapon use? and how do you clear a dud round?OOC: A simple P90 style feed under the stock and a Bullpup load. The grains are upped by about 4-5x because the chamber can take such heats while the bullets stay extremely light because of the composite choice of grainage.

I'm not professional enough to start debating the details with anyone, but this gun still appears to me as a nice, original design, in which several problems of the RL guns have been pretty well solved.

The effective range is something what I'm not so sure about, though. As stated above, to make a bullet fly further and faster than before, you need to put more pow(d)er into the cartridge. Which increases weight and recoil, making it less useful in close quarters. You haven't done that, and I just can't see where does all that thrusting power come from.
Other than that, I do think this is a well-working consept and would indeed purchase some, if there wasn't this issue with the cartridge. See, even though the caseless has proven to be highly effective in assault rifles (less so in higher calibre weapons though) I, like many others, happen to have stunning stockpiles of some other ammunition. To completely change the standard calibre of my army, I would need several other weapons - most notably a real GP machinegun - using 4.7mm also due the logistical difficulties that come with having too much variation in the used ammunition of one unit.
So, if we'd give up of our 6.5mm it would require the whole scale of infantry weapons beign designed. And be just insanely expencive.

By the way, I have never really understood the idea of trying to put all three - a sniper, light MG and assault rifle - into one weapon. If you want them all, it will not be THE BEST in none of them. Best machineguns are indeed made to be machineguns from the beginning, and that's equally true with sniper rifles, submachine guns and assault rifles as well. Or atleast that's my opinion of it.

Anyways, keep up the good work!OOC: I do have all three

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v145/KGBFaTaLsHoT/Gun%20Pictures/G6-Support.png

G6 Support

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v145/KGBFaTaLsHoT/Gun%20Pictures/SG552-CaselessV2.png

G5 Assault

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v145/KGBFaTaLsHoT/Gun%20Pictures/552-Caseless-Mini.jpg

G4 Mini
(Yes I made these images)

Though, my country is small and I cannot afford to make all 3 seperately. I
need a gun that varies to fill out all three areas effectively.

I dont care what others say...I like this design. Infact how much for production rights? this way instead of relying on your small country to produce them they can be sent over to a Nerotikan Arms manufacturing plant and built.

I was also wondering, is there a posibility for interchangable ammo. Could I put maybe a 7.62 bullet into this thing and fire it the same way I could maybe a 5.56 (I may be off on that last number). If this gun could somehow utilize that feature im sure lots of people will buy them

OOC: A simple P90 style feed under the stock and a Bullpup load. The grains are upped by about 4-5x because the chamber can take such heats while the bullets stay extremely light because of the composite choice of grainage.


A P90 system isn't really goign to work when the magazine is underneath the weapon and the P-90s chamber and barrel design are pretty much idenitical to the conventional design which were been proved not to work with caseless ammuntition and are in thier own way more complex than than the G11s.
I never commented about heat or even chamber preasure (which would actually be a bit more important than heat in terms fo design), my main concern is why you claimed to use exactly the same ammo as the G-11 yet claimed imposisble performance for it, what you have hear is a new round which will be at least twice as long as 4.7x33mm and at least 3 times the weight. To be honest the light 4.7mm round is Ok for short range but if you want into the 1000m+ range you really need at least 6.5mm 144grain bullet.

What you ahve hear is a very nciely drawn rifle with soem nice idea that is unfortuantly let down by soem big errors.

I dont care what others say...I like this design. Infact how much for production rights? this way instead of relying on your small country to produce them they can be sent over to a Nerotikan Arms manufacturing plant and built.1 Bill for manufacturing rights. That or 20% of all future sales profits go to us.

A P90 system isn't really goign to work when the magazine is underneath the weapon and the P-90s chamber and barrel design are pretty much idenitical to the conventional design which were been proved not to work with caseless ammuntition and are in thier own way more complex than than the G11s.
I never commented about heat or even chamber preasure (which would actually be a bit more important than heat in terms fo design), my main concern is why you claimed to use exactly the same ammo as the G-11 yet claimed imposisble performance for it, what you have hear is a new round which will be at least twice as long as 4.7x33mm and at least 3 times the weight. To be honest the light 4.7mm round is Ok for short range but if you want into the 1000m+ range you really need at least 6.5mm 144grain bullet.

What you ahve hear is a very nciely drawn rifle with soem nice idea that is unfortuantly let down by soem big errors.OOC: Yeh; your right. I'll edit the specs and add the G7 Assault/Sniper rifle which uses 6.8 SPC.

OOC: A simple P90 style feed under the stock and a Bullpup load. The grains are upped by about 4-5x because the chamber can take such heats while the bullets stay extremely light because of the composite choice of grainage.
Ummm, you realize that grains is a measurement of weight, just like pounds or ounces, right? No matter what you make it out of, a 130 grain bullet still weighs...130 grains. Just like a pound of lead weighs just as much as a pound of feathers.

Ummm, you realize that grains is a measurement of weight, just like pounds or ounces, right? No matter what you make it out of, a 130 grain bullet still weighs...130 grains. Just like a pound of lead weighs just as much as a pound of feathers.OOC: There are different types of grains hence the weight varies. There are standard issue grains but there are also high quality grains which are expensive unless your the one manufacturing them. Being like me; though I realized I could go the rout of using much more grains or just use the G7 which uses 6.8 SPC.

OOC: Join the NS Draftroom (http://s13.invisionfree.com/The_NS_Draftroom) VRP, as you have potential as one of the more better designers on NS....

OOC: Thanks; guns are a real passion of mine and I try to learn. A community of teachers and me learning as well as teaching sounds good. Thanks for the link again.

OOC: There are different types of grains hence the weight varies. There are standard issue grains but there are also high quality grains which are expensive unless your the one manufacturing them. Being like me; though I realized I could go the rout of using much more grains or just use the G7 which uses 6.8 SPC.


[OOC: Source? The grain should be exactly the same since it's an Imperial unit of mass. Grains should also be the same changing from avoirdupois, troy and apothecary... so, grain wouldn't change with quality. The number of grains would, since a higher quality propellant could get similar velocities with less weight [in grains]... but the grain is a steady weight... it does not change.]

What happens when your gun runs out of compressed air?

As long as you use a good bipod/tripod, muzzle brake, sling, and a good solid grip, and limit the gun to bursts/semi-auto (to let the recoil chamber refill itself). It would be fine. Heck, if al the above recoil management techniquies where used, it would be 'the most accurate MG around'

Muzzle brakes work by deflecting exhaust gasses in the direction you don't want the gun top go (backwards for recoil, up to compenate for 'climb'). And can reduce recoil by 25%.

Bipods and tripods would dig into the ground like a recoil spade, you'll ave to wiegh the gun down to keep it from 'jumping' out of its rut though, this prevents recoil travel.

Slings allow a better grip of the gun, and increase accuracy by 20% on average.

Delayed recoil, and slower burning powders (coupled with longer barrels). Allow greater muzzle velocities with less felt recoil. (Acceleration of bullet/gun slowed down, meaning easier to compensate for recoil yourself)

Force=Mass times Acceleration
KE= M*V^2

another good figure for range and penetration is sctional density.
Frontal area of projectile (generally Pi*R^2)*KE

I thought I purchased 150 G6 Rifles, not 15.

I belive you are reffering to types of proppellant (grain sizes F, FF, FFF, and FFFF) while everyone else is talking about grains as in wieght and measures.

OOC: Though the G7 using 6.8 SPC should be sufficient as a Sniper Rifle or Assault rifle though I already think my 4.7 by 33 sounds fine too. Besides if I reduce the range to what it should be. Which would be a few dozen more meters than what the G11 got since the barrel on my gun is much longer. I'll have ranges similar to that of Gas-Operated 5.56, or 6.7 Remmington.

OOC: Interesting concept, but there are legitimate arguments that have been made here. I also checked your nation out, nice flag btw. Anyways, speaking as an infanteer I can say that not many infantry would want this weapon. The insane rate of fire is not a good thing, as infantry have to haul their ammo, and even a quick click on full auto will burn through a fair number of rounds. Also, the accuracy, to be perfectly honest, is unrealistic. Sniper rifles achieve that accuracy because of long heavily rifled barrels and large cartridges, but a 4.7 simply wouldn't be able to pull it off. Also its quite frankly, unnecessary, as most small arms engagements are within a couple hundred meters, and without a dedicated sniper scope you would never spot an enemy to make use of the range. Also, the 24 inch barrel is a major drawback in urban environments. Something more like a 16 inch barrel is far preferable. Knock the barrel down to 16 inches, and cut back the range, and I might just buy a few for my special forces.

What happens when your gun runs out of compressed air?

As long as you use a good bipod/tripod, muzzle brake, sling, and a good solid grip, and limit the gun to bursts/semi-auto (to let the recoil chamber refill itself). It would be fine. Heck, if al the above recoil management techniquies where used, it would be 'the most accurate MG around'

Muzzle brakes work by deflecting exhaust gasses in the direction you don't want the gun top go (backwards for recoil, up to compenate for 'climb'). And can reduce recoil by 25%.

Bipods and tripods would dig into the ground like a recoil spade, you'll ave to wiegh the gun down to keep it from 'jumping' out of its rut though, this prevents recoil travel.

Slings allow a better grip of the gun, and increase accuracy by 20% on average.

Delayed recoil, and slower burning powders (coupled with longer barrels). Allow greater muzzle velocities with less felt recoil. (Acceleration of bullet/gun slowed down, meaning easier to compensate for recoil yourself)

Force=Mass times Acceleration
KE= M*V^2

another good figure for range and penetration is sctional density.
Frontal area of projectile (generally Pi*R^2)*KE

I thought I purchased 150 G6 Rifles, not 15.OOC: Also you can't run out of compressed air. The air is already and and gets filled in because Earth isn't a vaccum like space. When the gun shoots there is an air-tight seal between the gun and the air chamber and so when the barrel is pushed back it compresses the air effectively killing recoil... Super effectively... Spelling mistake I was tired; missed the zero key and I thought I hit it and god damnit I fucking love you. Thanks for all of these sources I'll be adding them ASAP. Though I already have great grips and a Bi-Pod as well as my complex delayed recoil system. I just need a decent muzzle break and a universal sling mount.

Force=Mass times Acceleration
KE= M*V^2

KE = ½mv²

OOC: Interesting concept, but there are legitimate arguments that have been made here. I also checked your nation out, nice flag btw. Anyways, speaking as an infanteer I can say that not many infantry would want this weapon. The insane rate of fire is not a good thing, as infantry have to haul their ammo, and even a quick click on full auto will burn through a fair number of rounds. Also, the accuracy, to be perfectly honest, is unrealistic. Sniper rifles achieve that accuracy because of long heavily rifled barrels and large cartridges, but a 4.7 simply wouldn't be able to pull it off. Also its quite frankly, unnecessary, as most small arms engagements are within a couple hundred meters, and without a dedicated sniper scope you would never spot an enemy to make use of the range. Also, the 24 inch barrel is a major drawback in urban environments. Something more like a 16 inch barrel is far preferable. Knock the barrel down to 16 inches, and cut back the range, and I might just buy a few for my special forces.OOC: Smaller Round = More Accurate - Reason: It cuts through the air easier because it's so small compared to a 5.56 x 45 NATO bullet.
Smaller Round = Less Distance

Thanks mac...

Smaller round, bigger cartridge = much more recoil and flatter shooting.

The ultra-small caseless rounds will also wiegh much less than NATO 5.56 mm.

Being a long and thin bullet it is almost garaunteed to tumble upon impact at even long ranges too. Causing horendous injuries.

US military chose the 5.56 mm because it was lighter, fired better bursts, and they found that for every soldier injured , two or more men would be put out of action, whereas a fatality would only put out one. and pound for pound, you could carry 3 clips of 5.56 mm vs one of .308 cal NATO.

Also the moral loss of seeing 'walking wounded/dead' cross the paths with replacements with horror stories is free propoganda.

OOC: Smaller Round = More Accurate - Reason: It cuts through the air easier because it's so small compared to a 5.56 x 45 NATO bullet.
Smaller Round = Less Distance

Not necessarilly. My Hali-42 uses a .221 round, which should have a similar or greater distance to the .224 [standard 5.56mm] because it has greater muzzle velocity, which is achieved through a binary liquid propellant. A bit of a different case, but less mass is not invariably less distance, although yes, normally mass does change at greater percentages than velocity.

My apologies, I used accuracy because I was to lazy to write 'effective range'. Smaller rounds have less effective range as they lack the mass for larger momentum, and also without the powerful sniper scope, even a 3.4x optical sight won't be able to make use of it.

Not necessarilly. My Hali-42 uses a .221 round, which should have a similar or greater distance to the .224 [standard 5.56mm] because it has greater muzzle velocity, which is achieved through a binary liquid propellant. A bit of a different case, but less mass is not invariably less distance, although yes, normally mass does change at greater percentages than velocity.OOC: Cool; my high Muzzle Velocities are achived through being a caseless ammunition which does not waste the expanding gasses though gas operation or opening the chamber and letting out gasses and the casing so my bullet would have similar Muzzle Velocity to your weapon if not a bit less.

Thanks mac...

Smaller round, bigger cartridge = much more recoil and flatter shooting.

The ultra-small caseless rounds will also wiegh much less than NATO 5.56 mm.

Being a long and thin bullet it is almost garaunteed to tumble upon impact at even long ranges too. Causing horendous injuries.

US military chose the 5.56 mm because it was lighter, fired better bursts, and they found that for every soldier injured , two or more men would be put out of action, whereas a fatality would only put out one. and pound for pound, you could carry 3 clips of 5.56 mm vs one of .308 cal NATO.

Also the moral loss of seeing 'walking wounded/dead' cross the paths with replacements with horror stories is free propoganda.OOC: Thanks? I guess... I don't see how that applies here much besides that my round does collateral damage without fatality putting 2 out of action instead of 1 from a fatality.

More like 15 men out of combat for every wounded (unless he was cornered)

More like 15 men out of combat for every wounded (unless he was cornered)OOC: Will you please birth mah babies? I never thought of it that way! O.O I LOB3 J00z!!!11 I want you like a fat kid wants pudding! xD

OOC: Sales plez?

My apologies, I used accuracy because I was to lazy to write 'effective range'. Smaller rounds have less effective range as they lack the mass for larger momentum, and also without the powerful sniper scope, even a 3.4x optical sight won't be able to make use of it.

Wind speed and direction, humidity, and temperature all affect the accuracy of a round. Therefore, having less mass decreases accuracy as well, as the projectile has less momentum to counter these effects.
Long to short, you would be right if you used either 'effective range' or accuracy.

Having a higher-powered scope does not guaranteed accuracy either, it just makes it easier to read mill dots. I could shoot as accurately with a 3,4x scope as I could with my 40x Barska. It's just one hell of a lot harder. Emphasis on both hell and harder.

Helps if you can see what your target is behind the crosshairs though.

Helps if you can see what your target is behind the crosshairs though.OOC: xD Read the Valens Res Publica electronic scope description. It makes a Vietnam Veteran Marine Sniper look like a shooter who is a retard whom has teretts and is trying to hump a doorknob.

Not just see what it is in your crosshairs, but see anything in your crosshairs. A good optical sight won't do shit at half a klick against trained soldiers with any concept of cam and concealment. Even with your electronic scope, the problem is you won't be able to SEE a target until your a few hundred meters away. Unless you're a sniper, in which case you've spent a good amount of time dedicated to enemy detection, concealment, and you're probably conducting operations outside of normal combat, or just before an assault when an enemy's likely to have his head up and you have time to spare finding them. While your sight is impressive, it's just to much to make general issue and would be really expensive to produce. Also, the NV and IR systems have limited range on a rifle platform, a large dedicated thermal sight could be procured, but would also have limited range though be more effective (not to mention epensive). Keep in mind, a second generation rifle scope with just night vision costs $2000, a more up to date 3rd generation closer to $3000, a fully integrated 3.6 ghz thermal imaging, adjustable range, and night vision suite that also possesses effective battlefield reliability would rack up toward 15 to 20 thousand. A joint night vision/thermal goggles (not scope, and not a 3.6ghs integrated computer, just goggles) cost about 13 thousand.

Oh, one more thing. This would make a poor machine gun. Accuracy for a machine gun is not a good thing. The effectiveness of an MG is it's ability to lay down heavy volumes of spread out suppressive fire and to produce a 'beaten zone', a wide area of pure lethality for anything unfortunate enough to be caught in it. That is why machine guns have less rifling than rifles, because less rifling decreases accuracy, allowing the bullets to spread out more and generate a cone shape when firing. I believe there was an instance of one type of machine gun being to accurate, and had to mount a vibrator to shake it and decrease accuracy. This isn't against your weapon in specific, but applies to all rifles that serve as machine guns, you need to mount a new barrel and downgrade the accuracy in other ways to accomplish it.

Oh, one more thing. This would make a poor machine gun. Accuracy for a machine gun is not a good thing. The effectiveness of an MG is it's ability to lay down heavy volumes of spread out suppressive fire and to produce a 'beaten zone', a wide area of pure lethality for anything unfortunate enough to be caught in it. That is why machine guns have less rifling than rifles, because less rifling decreases accuracy, allowing the bullets to spread out more and generate a cone shape when firing. I believe there was an instance of one type of machine gun being to accurate, and had to mount a vibrator to shake it and decrease accuracy. This isn't against your weapon in specific, but applies to all rifles that serve as machine guns, you need to mount a new barrel and downgrade the accuracy in other ways to accomplish it.OOC: Maybe if somebody weren't smart enough to change out the barrel to a smaller 14 incher then yes you'd have a problem. Smaller barrel's can be changed in if more spread is needed; and change the ammunition to hollow points which dented cavities cause severe spread. Good MG.

As for the processor, it's 400 bucks <--- Deal with AMD. The TTFT systems up to about 20 bucks as they extremely cheap for us to manufacture. All I am paying for is a for a some-what decent IR, and NV sight system. About 2k each. Not something meant for super long distance shots; well the IR and NV aren't anway. Just for shooting through walls and rooms infensted with hosties. The scope has a computer which tells you where to aim after it couculates the distance bore; etc, etc.. And places a small red dot on the scope; as thats where the bullet is going to go when the trigger is pulled not the red dot at the center of the scope.

You are thinking of Sir Richard's original Gatling gun. It wasn't a vibrator. At was a cammed tripod that slowly traversed the gun from left to right as it was cranked.

This was necesary because the gun was mounted on a carrige designed to fire a 25 pound rifled shell with dead on accuracy.

The gun mount was way too stable.

BTW VRP double posted

I think the gun I'm thinking of was something more WW2, though it probably is the gatling. Anyways, it doesn't overly matter. And an all out computer system that calculates where you need to aim is quite complicated and expensive. The clarification of the TI/NV system helps but that still means a total production cost (not to mention integrating them all) of about 4500, closer to 4750 or 5k. That's still to much for general issue, unless you want to have a smaller, better equipped force, and it doesn't address other issues such as a 24 inch barrel is ridicously long and cumbersome (the C7s 20 inch barrel is considered a bit much). As for your weapon, I'm not saying it isn't theoretically possible, because I'm sure crazier shit's been done (the US did land on the moon) but it doesn't change the fact it isn't overly practical, if the sight fails an infanteer is not near smart enough to perform a battlefield repair and only specialized computer techs could fix it, and if its all that the sight will be large and bulky at best. Also, an issue with the processor is that a 3.6ghz processor creates a lot of heat, requiring fans or liquid cooling for dissipation, liquid cooling wouldn't be ideal for battlefield use due to the fact that it could easily break under stress and the sights now useless, and a fan would require openings for dirt and water to enter and mess things up.

OOC: TTFT's produce 1% the heat generated by Silicon; and transfer information 10x faster. Thank the University of Berkley for inventing this stuff which will soon replace Silicon for computers. The only thing producing heat will be the processor but the heat will be absorbed by the TTFT's which have been applied to small Alumina-Oxide layers which will absorb the heat with ease and can take it being left on for dozens of years and used heavily without a single overheat malfuntion. TTFT's can also withstand insane heats while dried and can operate perfectly fine at super cold and hot tempratures.

Fine I'll up the price to 5k, but they will be nowhere near bulky. NV has been incorperates insanely small camera devices and still have effective ranges. While IR doesn't have to be extremely expensive and the size of the IR can be reduces by about 50 or more % though the use of TTFT's

The only other 'odd' gun I can think of is the Vickers.

It didn't have enough natural recoil so they added a 'backwards muzzle brake' called a recouperator so that it would have enough 'kick' to cycle to the next bullet.

The recouperator was that little vented cup/ball shaped thing at the end of the water jacket.

OOC: How much does this penetrate? In the world of insane body armour, battlesuits, and genetically engineered supersoldiers, will this round just fly straight through its fanatical opponent, injure his comrade and they keep running.

They are running into a problem in Iraq and Afghanistan is that the crazy insurgents don't go down even with a 5.56 in the chest.

Also, I'm not exactly dealing with an enemy that cares about its wounded too much.

And this gun would only be good for more advanced small armies that would field this weapon. A larger conscript army like mine would prefer a strong suitable weapon with no fancy gimmicks on it. A firing computer and fancy sights is great, but when the range is 45 metres in a destroyed city block, accuracy won't be very important.

In other news I wish to purchase production rights and will give 20% of the profits to you automatically when my new storefront opens up.

OOC: How much does this penetrate? In the world of insane body armour, battlesuits, and genetically engineered supersoldiers, will this round just fly straight through its fanatical opponent, injure his comrade and they keep running.

They are running into a problem in Iraq and Afghanistan is that the crazy insurgents don't go down even with a 5.56 in the chest.

Also, I'm not exactly dealing with an enemy that cares about its wounded too much.

And this gun would only be good for more advanced small armies that would field this weapon. A larger conscript army like mine would prefer a strong suitable weapon with no fancy gimmicks on it. A firing computer and fancy sights is great, but when the range is 45 metres in a destroyed city block, accuracy won't be very important.

In other news I wish to purchase production rights and will give 20% of the profits to you automatically when my new storefront opens up.
OOC: Hurtful Thoughts made a excellent fucking point a while back is after a few hundred meters the bullet begins to tumble meaning collatera damage without fatality and the kick-back of a ball .45 cal bullet.

OOC: How much does this penetrate? In the world of insane body armour, battlesuits, and genetically engineered supersoldiers, will this round just fly straight through its fanatical opponent, injure his comrade and they keep running.

They are running into a problem in Iraq and Afghanistan is that the crazy insurgents don't go down even with a 5.56 in the chest.

Also, I'm not exactly dealing with an enemy that cares about its wounded too much.

And this gun would only be good for more advanced small armies that would field this weapon. A larger conscript army like mine would prefer a strong suitable weapon with no fancy gimmicks on it. A firing computer and fancy sights is great, but when the range is 45 metres in a destroyed city block, accuracy won't be very important.

In other news I wish to purchase production rights and will give 20% of the profits to you automatically when my new storefront opens up.OOC: Level III Armor when using API; of course doing buisness with you sounds like a pleasure. Deal agreed upon on my part.

OOC: Hurtful Thoughts made a excellent fucking point a while back is after a few hundred meters the bullet begins to tumble meaning collatera damage without fatality and the kick-back of a ball .45 cal bullet.

A long thin bullet going up against body armour, I can see it bend then the back, still has the momentum keep going, and shoving hte soldier back. The soldier then gets back up and keeps going.

Maybe I phrased it oddly, lets say the rifle was goign to be used in a sort of antimaterial mode. How much RHAe can it penetrate then? And because of its accuracy, eventually it'll be able to punch through.

While an injury is great, with the most fanatical, bloodthirsty enemies you can imagine the military wants to see a good solid kill.

A long thin bullet going up against body armour, I can see it bend then the back, still has the momentum keep going, and shoving hte soldier back. The soldier then gets back up and keeps going.

Maybe I phrased it oddly, lets say the rifle was goign to be used in a sort of antimaterial mode. How much RHAe can it penetrate then? And because of its accuracy, eventually it'll be able to punch through.

While an injury is great, with the most fanatical, bloodthirsty enemies you can imagine the military wants to see a good solid kill.OOC: Instead of using hollow points you API. Bullet gets loged in the body and burns for a while and then gives mercury poisoning. Dead no matter what.

Are you sure that this Alumina-Oxide can be rifled? Remember that Alumina is very brittle and I don't think it's suitable for the barrel, at least. It may be useful for the other parts, though.

OOC: Yes, it can be rifled. Though even if it were too brittle to be rifled the gun could perform almost as fine as smoothbore. Though lets say it had to be rifled. I could use a femtosecond laser and make more metallic bonds instead of covealent thus making it more malleable.

A bullet in the head will kill, as could be a spear, rock BB gun or .22 rimfire. They'll be just as dead as if you shot them with a .50 cal in the head...

But yes, for large conscript armies, read my first post about buying the $50 AK-47s and $60 M-16s, a few crazy stores are selling M-14s for $75 each.

This is more of a commando raid deep into enemy territory gun.
(I could have made great use of thes in Alidor)

Now please, no more redundant criticisms...

I have no idea how seperate nations can produce COPYRIGHTED WEAPONS, protected by trade-marked names and internation treaties yet they sell the exact weapon for 75$. Maybe I should RP Colt and sue them for everything they have... Thanks Hurtful you are extremely knowledgeable about guns. Jesus Christ. I shudder to think of me weilding so much knowledge at one time yet you manage to do it. It's truely impressive.

RL gun designs and companies are open domain in NS storefronts.
(I thought everyone knew that)

So here you CAN see a Ford/Chevy/Toyota conglamerat

And please, do not patronize me.

OOC: Hmm... Now I am very interested to infringe on multiple copyrights and mix patented gun concepts <.< .... >.>

Though I still fail to see how they can manufacture a thaousand dollar gun for 75 bucks... Thats cheaper than a Colt 1911! and that thing is more mass produced than the bullets made for them....

take your pick
Slave Labor

Joycamps
Death Camps
Concentration Camps
POW camps
Correctional facilities
Prision Labor
Penal Colonies
Gulags

PROHT has decided to lk the other way when it comes to this issue, since it means cheap merchandise. Then we use the guns we bought from them to 'liberate' the slaves, and put them to work in 'luxery joycamps'.

And yes in RL China does sell AK-47 clones for $50 a gun.

the price you see for the M-16 is really a crapload of markup for profit and to pay government tolls on selling and amrketing military type weapons to anyone but america. the Price for the Army (and allies) is like 150-300 dollars. In nation states, where labor laws can and are pretty often ignored and where weapons can be uber-mass produced, 60-80 dollars for a gun as cheap as an M-16 is prety reasonable.
and the AK-47 is cheap even compared to the M-16 and is probably the only weapon in RL to ever be hyper-mass produced.

take your pick
Slave Labor

Joycamps
Death Camps
Concentration Camps
POW camps
Correctional facilities
Prision Labor
Penal Colonies
Gulags

PROHT has decided to lk the other way when it comes to this issue, since it means cheap merchandise. Then we use the guns we bought from them to 'liberate' the slaves, and put them to work in 'luxery joycamps'.
OOC: I love you. Thanks for the information. Though the bad thing about slaves is they get slopply. Machines are much faster and efficient... And expensive... So machines after a while pay them selves off; in the long run. Though in the short run Slaves win...

whispers sound of silence: use slaves to build the machines an uber-hyper-mass-produce the stuff...

whispers sound of silence: use slaves to build the machines an uber-hyper-mass-produce the stuff...
OOC: Keep this shiznit. Top secret... http://graphics.gaiaonline.com/images/template/smiles/icon_ninja.gif

Well I havn`t read much of anything here sense my post about I dont know like 2 pages ago. Anyway the production of this weapon could easly be done by utilizing overseas work. Find a country with a low population, poor people, and a weak government. Tell them that you will pay the people money to build the guns, your exchange rate should do the rest. By the time they produce the weapons (They would be non-slave workers so they would actually try to make the best gun they could) you would have made a crapeload of money, helped a small economy and yet only shoveled out like I dont know I would say $1000 dollars.

Like I said before as well we would be glad to have the production rights sent to our companies, we have a large arms industry. We can produce the guns here and for a small compesation fee ship them to you so you can ship them to other consumers.

Well I havn`t read much of anything here sense my post about I dont know like 2 pages ago. Anyway the production of this weapon could easly be done by utilizing overseas work. Find a country with a low population, poor people, and a weak government. Tell them that you will pay the people money to build the guns, your exchange rate should do the rest. By the time they produce the weapons (They would be non-slave workers so they would actually try to make the best gun they could) you would have made a crapeload of money, helped a small economy and yet only shoveled out like I dont know I would say $1000 dollars.

Like I said before as well we would be glad to have the production rights sent to our companies, we have a large arms industry. We can produce the guns here and for a small compesation fee ship them to you so you can ship them to other consumers."I already confirmed that you could build them as long as we received 20% of future profits. :) "

the price you see for the M-16 is really a crapload of markup for profit and to pay government tolls on selling and amrketing military type weapons to anyone but america. the Price for the Army (and allies) is like 150-300 dollars. In nation states, where labor laws can and are pretty often ignored and where weapons can be uber-mass produced, 60-80 dollars for a gun as cheap as an M-16 is prety reasonable.
and the AK-47 is cheap even compared to the M-16 and is probably the only weapon in RL to ever be hyper-mass produced.
um no
You forget civillan companies make it, and they dont do it out of a sense patriotic duty or the goddness of thier hearts. They do it for profit and m16s costs the government a little over $500 each. Although if a soldier loses one he has to pay about $2300 for it, go figure =/

yeah, they are civvie companies, whioch is why they have to pay the cash if they want to sell to non-american military types.

it might be 500 with all the add ons, but the base price is around 150-200.

yeah, they are civvie companies, whioch is why they have to pay the cash if they want to sell to non-american military types.

it might be 500 with all the add ons, but the base price is around 150-200.
m16a2 no rail system no addons $586

where does that figure come from? I'd love to know if I'm wrong, but I need a source.

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/m16.htm

looks like you're right, Usually FAS prices are FY96-98 cost so I wasn't sure that the 586$ was right. but apparently it is

how much of the $586 is labor costs?