NationStates Jolt Archive

[OOC Note: All technology in this RP is completely feasable within the next five through ten years, and it appears to me to be a very effective design for an AMDS. For more info on it, see the end of this post.]

Breaking News

"Miniutes ago, a press conference was called by the Emperor himself claiming Cravan is finally safe from attack by missiles and aircraft. The press conference will be starting any miniute now, and we will finally see what- Oh, wait. It appears we have activity in the Imperial Palace's press room. Let's go live to the scene, now."

The camera view shifts to one of an ornately decorated room, and a podium set up with the Crest of the Empire engraved in it. Green and black banners adorn the walls to either side of it. Seconds later, the Emperor of Cravan walked out to the podium, and looked out at the audience of reporters. The room grew deathly silent as he cleared his throat.

"People of Cravan and the world. I come to you today bearing the news that Cravan is finally safe from attacks by aircraft, intercontinental ballistic missiles, cruise missiles, and the like. Finally, we can stop living in fear from attack, especially that of a nuclear sort.

"As many of you may have noticed, there has been an increase in the number of satellites launched into orbit, and there have been many "relay-towers" constructed all across Cravan. These are in fact a part of a massive undertaking which has been kept secret for the past thirty years. Of what I speak is Project Divine Shield, a massive undertaking on our part that has finally freed us from fear of nuclear ICBM attack.

"These satellites of which I speak are in fact armed with high power chemical oxygen-iodine lasers, and they are designed specifically to take down ICBM missiles, and are capable of firing on enemy satellites in space. Meanwhile, these "relay-towers", as we have called them, are in fact massive ground-based chemical oxygen-iodine lasers spread all across Cravan. They form one of the most advanced and effective air-defense webs seen to date. It is estimated out of a flight of two-hundred fifth-generation aircraft... Two would survive the initial barrage of these weapons.

"To show their effectiveness, we have decided to perform a demonstration to the international community. Now, since our satellite weapons of course require time to recharge, we will show you our ground based weapons, which are each powered by an independent pebble bed reactor, allowing for near unlimited shots."

He paused, and an image of a tall spire in the countryside appeared on the screen. It promptly began to give off a slight glow at the very top, and within mere moments of activation, seven shots were put off in quick succession. It was given two seconds to cool down, and seven more shots were fired off into the air.

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c381/crave22/Cravan/amds.jpg

The image went back to that of the Emperor at the podium, who was smiling at the success of the weapon.

"Of course, all necessary precautions have been taken. The system is on an isolated network to prevent hacking, and is guarded by a team of elite hackers all the time. The exact location of the system's control console are a closely guarded secret, and each time it is brought online it must be authorized by an officer. There is no way to get around these safeguards due to a multitude of internal firewalls, since as I said it is on an isolated network.

"Each one of these defense towers, which there are approxamately one every mile along the coastline and approxamately upwards of sixty located inside our borders, are heavily protected by a contingent of infantry, Imperial Guards, armored units, and constant sweeps of the area by recon aircraft. Nothing gets through. Each satellite is in a group of three, which offer mutual defense, and there are several still top-secret defensive systems for our satellites."

He paused looking around.

"In conclusion, Cravan is forevermore safe. Our country no longer needs to live in fear of attacks by strategic, tactical, and any other airborne weapons."

He took off his glasses, and leaned forward on the podium.

"Are there any questions for us?"


[OOC: As I said, if you want more information on an OOC basis, go here (http://ns.goobergunch.net/wiki/index.php/Project_Divine_Shield#Ground_Defense_Chemical_Oxygen-Iodine_Laser_Web). Note that this thread is strictly for informational purposes. Any military action taken against me to test the web's effectiveness will promptly be met by chemical oxygen-iodine lasers tweaked for IGNORE attacks. Thou hath been warned.]

Wow, really impressive. Not. Welcome to where we were about three years ago.

-Reich Foreign Ministry-

OOC: No offense, but this seems to be a little god-moddy. I mean, you're almost completely immune to all air attacks, and they can attack ground targets?

OOC: No offense, but this seems to be a little god-moddy. I mean, you're almost completely immune to all air attacks, and they can attack ground targets?

It's possible. He's explained it. And you know, I'd like to buy this.

OOC: I know, which is why I did set several limitations. And I did have a few technical problems planned that would make for some setbacks in this thread... Besides, it's mainly just to be used as a deterrent for nuclear attacks without having to simply IGNORE them.

Also:
@Tocrowkia
No constructive criticism? Then don't say anything at all.

It's possible. He's explained it. And you know, I'd like to buy this.

Does he have a source that says this could be possible in the next couple of years? He's linked to a picture, and a Wiki he put together...

It's possible. He's explained it. And you know, I'd like to buy this.

Thank you, and I know it is entirely possible. The US military has been busy researching these chemical lasers since the 60's.

OOC: I know, which is why I did set several limitations. And I did have a few technical problems planned that would make for some setbacks in this thread... Besides, it's mainly just to be used as a deterrent for nuclear attacks without having to simply IGNORE them.

Also:
@Tocrowkia
No constructive criticism? Then don't say anything at all.

OOC: Which would these limitations be?

Thank you, and I know it is entirely possible. The US military has been busy researching these chemical lasers since the 60's.

Here, how much would I need to pay?

OOC: I know, which is why I did set several limitations. And I did have a few technical problems planned that would make for some setbacks in this thread... Besides, it's mainly just to be used as a deterrent for nuclear attacks without having to simply IGNORE them.

Also:
@Tocrowkia
No constructive criticism? Then don't say anything at all.


((OOC: That was an IC comment. My nation is arrogant like that. If all you wanted was constructive criticism, you should have said something.))

Wow, really impressive. Not. Welcome to where we were about three years ago.

-Reich Foreign Ministry-

OOC: Hey, don't be so mean.

@ Cravan:
What about projectiles weapons that have no electrical circuit and can be deployed in hundreds of numbers, like my Vizi-Turrets?

What about ground forces?

OOC: Which would these limitations be?

OOC: You were right about attacking ground. That was very god-moddy, so I have deleted that. However, the orbital lasers can only fire officially once an hour, but due to cool downs, they can really only fire once every two days. I was going to mention it later, but I guess I'll say it now.

@Tocrowkia
Sorry, I misunderstood you. I'll get an IC comment in right away.

Here, how much would I need to pay?

For the entire network? More than a few trillion dollars... For a single tower? A few billion. Like Wy said in the other thread, I would suggest you get your funding straightened out first. The I'll be glad to sell you a few of these towers.

[OOC: You know how I'd counter this? Think of satellite warfare for a few months. Then imagine something acting like the Arkbird from Ace Combat 5 parking overhead and knocking each of the ground based lasers out one by one.]

OOC: You were right about attacking ground. That was very god-moddy, so I have deleted that. However, the orbital lasers can only fire officially once an hour, but due to cool downs, they can really only fire once every two days. I was going to mention it later, but I guess I'll say it now.

@Tocrowkia
Sorry, I misunderstood you. I'll get an IC comment in right away.

OOC: Ah. I'm glad that's cleared up. Complaint withdrawn.

OOC: Out of curiosity, how does the system target supersonic targets?

Wow, really impressive. Not. Welcome to where we were about three years ago.

-Reich Foreign Ministry-

"Well, considering we are a slightly smaller nation who is younger than your nation, I'd say it's a pretty big accomplishment."


*************************************
OOC @All:
http://www.afrlhorizons.com/Briefs/0009/DE9902.html
http://www.fas.org/spp/starwars/program/abl.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemical_Oxygen_Iodine_Laser
http://www.military.com/soldiertech/0,14632,Soldiertech_ABL,,00.html

As you can all see, the chemical oxygen-iodine lasers are already being used for military purposes.

OOC @McKagan:
And then I'd just shoot that thing down with the F-798. The cycle of warfare continues...

OOC @Malkyer:
It uses radar systems already used by anti-missile missiles, which are entering service in the US arsenal. The laser itself already almost travels at the speed of light.

OOC @McKagan:
And then I'd just shoot that thing down with the F-798. The cycle of warfare continues...

OOC: IMAF wouldn't waste an asset like that until they owned the satellite space around the area and had a few hundred air superiority fighters flying cover for it. It would be like taking out a fortress.

Lone Alliance Response:
Impressive, however we would like to put your weapon to the test against a little used type of Orbital Projectile, To improve your laser defenses perhaps we can come to a discussion on how to counter the weapon we have in mind.

OOC: Out of curiosity, how does the system target supersonic targets?
OCC: considering that Lasers travel at the speed of light, the only thing would be to have a targeting computer to judge the speed of the Supersonci aircraft and place the Laser right where the Aircraft would be upon firing the laser. Lots lots of Timing so a supercomputer could do it.

A better solution for preventing ICBM attack would be a Brilliant Pebbles system. Far cheaper too. As it is, your system has several problems:


"An elite team of hackers watch the skies 24/7 in a bunker in the mountains of Cravan. If a missile launch is detected, they go to work, flooding it with EM signals and trying to reprogram the missile's targetting coordinates. If this does not work, phase two is put in progress."

ICBMs cannot be reprogrammed. Once they're on their way, they've got a set course (a little bit of fuel may be carried for limited maneuvers). Modern ICBMs take only 3-5 minutes to boost at most iirc, which means you're going to have to try and hack them and change coordinates in a very brief amount of time, probably not even enough time to confirm an enemy launch and get the team ready to work. You also can't jam ICBMs for the same exact reason you can't jam an artillery shell. There's no seeker to jam.


If EM warfare does not work, a burst of two ICBMs armed with conventional warheads are launched at the oncoming ICBM. If this does not work in destroying the missile, phase three is activated.

There's no reason for a conventional warhead, you'd need to hit the ICBM for those to do any damage, and kinetic impact alone would destroy it. Furthermore, this would take far too much time, it'd already be at your phase three defenses. If you're going to use any sort of warhead, I'd recommend a neutron bomb. Neutron flux does bad things to nuclear warheads.


The orbital laser web is used when the ICBM has passed the first two defensive webs successfully, and this phase rarely fails. The satellites in orbit are armed with newer, more powerful Chemical Oxygen-Iodine Lasers, and are used to take down the missile while it is in its space stage. although each satellite can only afford one shot per every hour while it recharges. It uses a high powered blast to target the warhead's main systems, making the warhead inoperable. Also assisting the laser satellites are a squadron of F-798 fighters scrambled when the launch was detected. They are armed with tactical nuclear warheads, and are ready to fire when the missile reaches orbit. Rarely will a missile make it past this stage.


The warheads main systems are deep inside the RV, the heatshield of which is normally made of uranium if I remember correctly. Uranium is a pain in the rear to burn through.


The final stage is the use of an Chemical Oxygen-Iodine Laser which is ground based. The ground based Chemical Oxygen-Iodine Lasers are the same high-powered ones in orbit, but they have a unique advantage. Due to the pebble bed reactor hooked up to each laser defense site, they have near unlimited shots and are extremely rapid fire. They can reach extreme long distance into the atmosphere (far, far less than those in space, but still long distance), and are also useful against oncoming cruise missiles.
One of their main purposes is bombarding the oncoming missiles with constant laser blasts. As the missiles re-enter the atmosphere, their heat shields are put to an extreme test. Firing upon them during this time almost guarantees a kill.

See above about trying to melt through uranium.


In the unlikely event that a missile would make it past all four phases, every Cravanian military asset would rip open on the incoming missiles, effectively guaranteeing their destruction. In the highly unlikely event of a missile making it through at all, a full scale nuclear assault on the aggressor nation would take place, completely destroying the aggressor nation.

Unlikely. You'd need a fantastic data net for that. The only things that might be able to knock them down are long-range high altitude SAMs.


There's a couple of other weaknesses in this. Cruise missiles, especially stealthy ones, as well as regular bombers will be able to penetrate this (you have the problem of the horizon with cruise missiles; even if you mounted the laser on top of Mt. Everest it would have a maximum range of only 208 miles with a perfectly flat plain below the laser, more typically they'll be at ~1000 feet or so, so 38 miles). SLBMs launched from short range will give you an extremely short reaction time, on the order of no more than 5 minutes. Bombers have the added advantage of having electronic jamming available, and you can't hit what you can't target.


Besides, it's mainly just to be used as a deterrent for nuclear attacks without having to simply IGNORE them.

Why not just back down if nuclear weapons release looks likely then?

Why not just back down if nuclear weapons release looks likely then?
If I had followed that rule I would be under the control of another nation right now.

If I had followed that rule I would be under the control of another nation right now.

Then you use your own deterrent if they launch. What's the point of nuclear weapons if everyone simply ignores anything other than "ZOMG, I usde nuklar boms!!eleventyone!!!!"?

Why not just make a cruise missile that can maneuver small amounts to make the laser miss and have to adjust to fire again?

For the entire network? More than a few trillion dollars... For a single tower? A few billion. Like Wy said in the other thread, I would suggest you get your funding straightened out first. The I'll be glad to sell you a few of these towers.

OOC: Well, a network for Pythogria. At any rate, I'm posting the factbook in another window right now.

Why not just make a cruise missile that can maneuver small amounts to make the laser miss and have to adjust to fire again?

You mean like an autonomous, expendable drone? They already exist in NS play, my nation has a couple thousand at the moment as anti-ship missiles, from Isselmere's Detmerian Aerospace storefront.

What happens when someone floods the orbital plane of your satellites with thousands of ball bearings?

Lone Alliance Response:
Impressive, however we would like to put your weapon to the test against a little used type of Orbital Projectile, To improve your laser defenses perhaps we can come to a discussion on how to counter the weapon we have in mind.

Very well. What do you have in mind?

************************************
A better solution for preventing ICBM attack would be a Brilliant Pebbles system. Far cheaper too. As it is, your system has several problems:...

...
Why not just back down if nuclear weapons release looks likely then?

OOC: I do thank you for the constructive criticism, and I will adjust my design accordingly. (I also thank you for actually deciding to read the article.) I also have to brush up on my research on ICBM systems. I spent so much time researching the laser itself I forgot to brush up on what it was meant to counter. :p Again, thanks. Also:

There's no reason for a conventional warhead, you'd need to hit the ICBM for those to do any damage, and kinetic impact alone would destroy it. Furthermore, this would take far too much time, it'd already be at your phase three defenses. If you're going to use any sort of warhead, I'd recommend a neutron bomb. Neutron flux does bad things to nuclear warheads.
I know, it's just I have read up on some AMDS and I did read a few systems planned to use nuke warheads. I just wanted to clarify it didn't use a nuke. I will consider the neutron warhead, though.

The warheads main systems are deep inside the RV, the heatshield of which is normally made of uranium if I remember correctly. Uranium is a pain in the rear to burn through.
And these lasers are a pain in the rear to defend against when it comes to heat. They are commonly used to decommission nuclear reactors. Then again, I'm just a 15 year old who hasn't even had a proper physics and chemistry class, so what the hell do I know?

Unlikely. You'd need a fantastic data net for that. The only things that might be able to knock them down are long-range high altitude SAMs.
I thought it would be implied that only assets capable of attacking it would be used...

And it isn't exactly possible to back down from Kraven and his slave states once you get into it. Release of this system was meant as a pre-cursor to a new ideology on the use of nuclear weapons.


Why not just make a cruise missile that can maneuver small amounts to make the laser miss and have to adjust to fire again?
Well considering the missile would have the entire web on it, and the web fires in rapid bursts, cools, then fires again. BTW, why are you so gung-ho on countering me and attacking me? We're both at war with Kraven. And did you notice how similiar our nations are...?

What happens when someone floods the orbital plane of your satellites with thousands of ball bearings?

Huh wha?

My ASATs work by spraying a cloud of ball bearings along the target satellite's orbital path. When a ball bearing hits the satellite, the velocities involved mean it turns into junk.

This also has the nifty side effect of keeping that orbit unusable for a little while, at least until the orbits of all the ball bearings decay and they fall into the atmosphere and vaporize.

Also, how would your SDI system react to a rock about 100 meters in diameter being tossed at it?

My ASATs work by spraying a cloud of ball bearings along the target satellite's orbital path. When a ball bearing hits the satellite, the velocities involved mean it turns into junk.

This also has the nifty side effect of keeping that orbit unusable for a little while, at least until the orbits of all the ball bearings decay and they fall into the atmosphere and vaporize.

Also, how would your SDI system react to a rock about 100 meters in diameter being tossed at it?

That is actually a very good idea. There really is no defense against those tiny ball bearings except prayer. Then again, that more or less goes for every satellite...

How do they react to a rock 100m in diameter? Depends. How was it launched?

That is actually a very good idea. There really is no defense against those tiny ball bearings except prayer. Then again, that more or less goes for every satellite...

How do they react to a rock 100m in diameter? Depends. How was it launched?

Attach some throwaway boosters, set the GPS coordinates, fire, forget.

Attach some throwaway boosters, set the GPS coordinates, fire, forget.

Not bad.

How exactly would that rock not burn up upon reentry? (I'm not being skeptical or anything. I am just curious.)

Not bad.

How exactly would that rock not burn up upon reentry? (I'm not being skeptical or anything. I am just curious.)
Size.

Not bad.

How exactly would that rock not burn up upon reentry? (I'm not being skeptical or anything. I am just curious.)

Rocks that big usually don't.

Assume for the purposes of this discussion that it's mostly a nickel-iron mass and not a carbonaceous asteroid full of voatiles.

Very well.

Again, I haven't had any formal training in this kind of stuff, so I've probably made a huge ass of myself already. If I have, just ignore me and let the thread die. I already feel like an idiot.

Yeah... I think I might just forget about it and pretend I never invested in it. I spent a while designing it on paper, too.

I will be keeping the ground based lasers as an AA weapon. Just cuz they're that cool. :p And Rosdivan, where can I find Brilliant Pebbles? I've heard it mentioned many times before, but I don't know where I should go to find it.

In any case, consider this retconned. I already feel stupid. :p

Yeah... I think I might just forget about it and pretend I never invested in it. I spent a while designing it on paper, too.

I will be keeping the ground based lasers as an AA weapon. Just cuz they're that cool. :p And Rosdivan, where can I find Brilliant Pebbles? I've heard it mentioned many times before, but I don't know where I should go to find it.

In any case, consider this retconned. I already feel stupid. :p

This actually may work... I think I'll build it.

Oh and...

Brilliant Pebbles-

Desined by the USA. Never built/used. Fires watermelon-sized projectiles at Mach 10 from sattelites at enemy sattelites/missiles/spaceships. On NS, has been vastly improved. Pytrhogria has 200 of these sattelites.

This actually may work... I think I'll build it.

Oh and...

Brilliant Pebbles-

Desined by the USA. Never built/used. Fires watermelon-sized projectiles at Mach 10 from sattelites at enemy sattelites/missiles/spaceships. On NS, has been vastly improved. Pytrhogria has 200 of these sattelites.

Go for it. I'll sell you the lasers. You just have to create the tracking systems and that stuff. I'll work out a price for them in a little while.

Rocks that big usually don't.

Assume for the purposes of this discussion that it's mostly a nickel-iron mass and not a carbonaceous asteroid full of voatiles.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v186/Nightbane/ortillery.png

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v186/Nightbane/ortillery.png

HOLY KAS NARADAS!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v186/Nightbane/ortillery.png

LOL!

I think I might have to invest in that stuff, now. Axis Nova, you're inspiring me to jumpstart my research programs. :D

How would they fair against Axis Nova's so-called indestructible air force?:rolleyes: With the stealth and the impenetrable armor and what not.