NationStates Jolt Archive

Every person who enters this room can either take a chair at one of the 12 positions or one in the audience, this room is of intense political debate between scholars and fanatics.

The nice table displays information and logs and other internet and digital web information for all to see.

At the table is currently 9 people debating the existance of a refuge crisis in Asbena.
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OOC: Descriptions and stuff when this comes active.

OOC: Great. Should my guy just walk in?

OCC: I would like to be a part of this, but more info would be nice.

OCC: I would like to be a part of this, but more info would be nice.
OOC: Agreed. You need to start of the topic, then we can debate.

OOC: Yes, starnell. Kulikovo go here: http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=477606

The current members

1. Amuo Xion, a grey haired old man in his late 60's.
2. Lina Geuss, a young woman in her 20's dressed in very formal attire.
3. Kim Hao, another young woman in her early 20's outspoken and loud.
4. Lionheart, a strange man in his fourties, very liberal.
5. Sora Tiamat, a beautiful woman who takes her information more seriously then the others.
6. Leang Laos, a chinese woman who has eyes of fury and a temper to match.
7. Leon Smith, a calm peaceful man who is shy, but intelligent.
8. Arnold Palmer, a man in his late 50's who is outspoke, but sagely.
9. Seth Munster, a young man in his 20's a radical leftist.

OCC: Right. Realize I'm being a bit forward, but I assumed by your first post that anyone can join at anytime.
ICC: Ajac the First, Emperor and Founder of Nerd Rome. Blunt, Forward, but kind young man. Early 20s

Adrian Konovski, young man mid-twenties, socialism advocate, practical, common sense, argumentative.

OCC: This is my guy. He's the Deputy Minister of Propoganda for Kulikovo.

OOC: Fine....but this is really for members only as seen above go here for character creation: http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=477606.

IC:

Sora: "The situation is fine, they have everything they need!"
Leang slammed her fist on the table, "LIKE HELL! You know they are starving basically, every nation does this shit to its refuges, some of them are from my nation to! They are fleeing the civil war, Asbena takes them in and now they are suffering still."
Sora: "They are recieving supplies, but the influx is just outlandish for the supplies sent when looked at the refuges expected."
Seth: "True, though perhaps other countries can pull their weight and help this situation. What is your country doing Ajac?"

Ajac: At the moment, we're going with the best idea. WORKING ON GETTING THEM BACK TO THEIR HOMES! But don't get me wrong. We have to make their 'homes' into 'homes' again.

About five of them sigh and the rest groan.
Seth: "The country is in war and no one can do anything about it, it will be at least six months before anything is done about it. Unless you are going to play Rambo, things won't be fixed there."

Ajac: War is Hell. Welcome to the Tenth Circle, How may we torture you?
Look, Civil War is a contradiction of terms. Our best way to fix this situation is to end the conflict so reconstruction can begin. So yes, in our own way, my nation is playing Rambo. A little shock-and-awe here, a little mediation there, and I predict an end in less than two months.



I hope.

Lynch (My minister of foreign affairs): Bullocks. There is no way that a foreign country will be able to end a civil war, especially within the time frame Ajac suggests.

Leang: "What side of the Arthian war are you on!?"

Lynch: My side, of course. And my side will help the refugees, but we won't engage the belligerents, unless they threaten civilians under our care.

Lynch (My minister of foreign affairs): Bullocks. There is no way that a foreign country will be able to end a civil war, especially within the time frame Ajac suggests.


Leang says to Lynch: "Exactly, wars are not won or lose in mere moments!"
Seth adds, "Although this wouldn't have happened if the government didn't oppress the people, governments that senselessly do so are evil.

Amuo speaks calmly, the others acting like as if the expert has spoken, "Time and time again we see such matters, the civil war will last around 8 months. Though I do wish they would hurry up."

The rest agree and Amuo adds, "What shall we discuss next, anyone have a topic?"

Ajac: Well, pending a better idea, I say we calm down for a bit and get to know each other a little more civily.

Lynch: Come again? Talking and mediation are the same thing.

Ajac: Gee, I thought the 'expert' had spoken. No offense, Amuo.

OOC: Was trying to start the RP....but one last thing won't hurt.
IC:
Amuo: "It is being done, but it is a civil war and the factions will not listen to reason, as a result the damage is done, but it will fine as the international community is acting upon it as usual for these cases."

Lynch: Have you been drinking, Ajac?

Ajac: Sorry for my outbursts. I'm a hands-on sovereign. And I only drink on weddings, and then it's only red wine.

OOC: Can we stop, this was just a side thing, it was meant so that when you already enter it is active and is a moving discussion! You put your own things in for this, and other members are supposed to discuss issues that relate to their nations also.

IC:

The other members look a little annoyed that two of the new members are continuing after the others have reached a suitable understanding of their previously longwinded arguement and wish for a new topic.

Ajac noticed their annoyed looks. "Again, I was trying to move on. And to accomplish that.......
actually, I'm afraid I don't know of any topic to think about.":rolleyes:

A suggestion is passed by Lina, "Since you are one of the newer members here, how about you bring up a concern of your nation, something that is controversial and needs discussion. That is usually the best way for these matters, many officals come here seeking criticism and thoughts of the people here. "

102 walked into the room, with his hacking abilities turned on. He slipped to the side of the room and watched, both invisible and making no sound.

Lynch: Very well. Recently, my nation sent a substantial portion of our forces to aid our ally, Pythogria, against Kraven. Do you think we should have stayed out of this foreign war, against an enemy with weapons that are lightyears ahead of our own? Or would you have considered that cowardly?

Ajac: Well.....I didn't think it was woth mentioning, but maybe you lot can give me some advice. It's the Violetists. They've become millitant in our rural areas. I'm caught between the Rock of Sanctity Acts, my nations bill of rights, and the hard place they're making for themselves in the public eye(as if the public opinion of them could get much worse).
I'm litterally between a Rock and a Hard place.

102 slipped out of hias abilities, but looked as though he came through the door.

"So... what's happening in here?"

Lynch: Are you essentially asking whether you should use military force to put them down?

Amuo Xion, nodded and said softly, "It is never wrong to help, but there is a tradition of those nations sending material aid being thrust into a war if the nation they are defending loses, or in some major cases, being attacked outright themselves.


Lina Geuss added to it, "Though we do have the examples of the United States in World War II which actually traded on both sides and we all know how that ended out."

Kim looked a rather ticked, "You'll get DESTROYED if you do that! I don't see how you can do such things when the nation could be attacked."

Lionheart had to agree also, but only added, "It is not cowardly to be humane, but it can be senseless at times. I find no problem with it."

Leang and Sora decided to excuse themselves from this arguement and decided to leave, allowing two new people to enter into the room.

Leon, Seth and Arnold backed Amuo and basically refrained from the conflict.

Lynch: *looks at Kim and smiles bitterly* Sometimes, doing the right thing means putting yourself at risk. And besides, we've been invaded before, we'll be invaded again.

Ajac zones out, having become lost in the midst of the conversation.

102 decides, This isn't worth my time. He decides to leave.

Kim nods, "Is it not the job of every politican and world leader to put the people of their own nation first though? Almost every nation is like that. They just don't give a damn until it affects them. Do you have any defenses against their weaponry or a way to repulse an attack?"

Ajac: Are we still talking about my problem? I got a little lost a few outbursts back.

Lynch grimaces.
"Not at all. Our air force consists of 140 planes, and they're all in Pythogria. Our soldiers were decimated upon first contact with Kraven forces. So, you see, Pythogria is our only chance of surviving the Kraven war machine."

Ajac: Are you sure? You've exhausted every other possibility? I'm not being offensive, or at least I don't mean too, but you sound like you're on your last resort.

Lynch: Kraven is not a force that can be bargained with. And, by ourselves, we are a proverbial bug on Kraven's windshield. But, in Pythogria, we at least have allies. And what kind of people would we be, if we don't help our allies?

Lynch: Kraven is not a force that can be bargained with. And, by ourselves, we are a proverbial bug on Kraven's windshield. But, in Pythogria, we at least have allies. And what kind of people would we be, if we don't help our allies?

102 sent a PM, "You wouldn't be good people, that's for sure."

Ajac: I see. Alright, what does Kraven want, or claim to want?

Ajac: I see. Alright, what does Kraven want, or claim to want?
Lynch: World domination, of course.

Ajac: Well, at least they're honest.

Amuo nods and displays all the information he has on Kraven, "Indeed they are powerful, though it appears as if Pythogria and your forces would be able to make a stand that should warrent a mighty obstacle for them, standing together would be your best chance at it."

Amuo nods and displays all the information he has on Kraven, "Indeed they are powerful, though it appears as if Pythogria and your forces would be able to make a stand that should warrent a mighty obstacle for them, standing together would be your best chance at it."

OOC: Asbena, LOOK AT THE DW OOC THREAD!

OOC: Asbena, check the character thread. :)

Lynch: True. Does anyone disagree with this stance?

Ajac: Our millitary has an ancient order from the medival period, known as the Ambrosian Guard. Though largely ceremonial, they ARE the most skilled warriors you have ever seen. Name a combat style, and they're masters at it.
I know for a fact, also, that many of them are itching for a fight, and would be more than willing to assist you.

Ajac: Our millitary has an ancient order from the medival period, known as the Ambrosian Guard. Though largely ceremonial, they ARE the most skilled warriors you have ever seen. Name a combat style, and they're masters at it.
I know for a fact, also, that many of them are itching for a fight, and would be more than willing to assist you.
Lynch: *chuckles* That's quite alright, you save those warriors for when Kraven comes after you. (OOC: The thread got closed because there were too many RPers.)

Ajac: I'd rather not wait for Kraven to come to me, thank you very much. I'm gonna get my bud-nipper, and nip this in the bud.

Lynch: I appreciate your heart, but his Capitol Police are superior to any infantry that you could field.

Ajac cracks a coy smile. "What about assasins?"

With a quick flash, a small, semi-decayed child pops out of thin air, fluttering above one of the seats on its tattered wings.

"Assassins probably won't work. Full ceramic body armor, genetic alterations, generations of selective breeding, psychoconditioning, you name it, they got it. And don't even get me started on his freaking Sardukar... Not that I don't applaud your bravado, it's just that getting oneself geeked with no real gain is rather wasteful."

Amuo looks over and see the child and smirks, "Interesting avatar." Noting that everyone else in the room is human and is discussing international politics.

"Well, I could be something else if you wish. I've got quite a few in my library. Cthonian horrors, centerfolds, a rather irate donkey... It's just that this one works best for me. That and using one of the stock avatars is rather boring. No sense of drama. Anyway, where were we... Ah, Kravan. I'm thinking about vacationing there."

Ajac: now, now, my confered-to-the-earth friend, Who said anything about sending them after the top men with the top body guards? Consider the Pyramid of Khufu and it's Golden Capstone. If enough of the baser blocks are pulled out, the capstone will fall, no matter how low the stones are to the ground. Kill a few low men on the totem poll, and Kraven begins to decay from within.

The child rolled its eyes, sighing dramatically.

"Killing low men on the totem pole does jack squat. I've fried a few PRA accountants on-accident-on-purpose, and do you see them toppling? Hell no. Low men are obscenely replacable, and there's hundreds of the drek-kickers waiting in the wings. In order to make a change, you have to hit them where it counts. Cut off the head and the body will die. Of course, it's a bit tougher when the head is wearing milspec battle armor in a bunker buried below a few miles of bedrock."

Ajac: Hit 'em in the liver and the body will poison itself. Low men don't get results? Then hit the middle men.

"Problem is that this body has several thousand livers which tend to grow back in a day or so. Kill a VP and they'll just promote the guy below him after they find you and kill you, which won't be very hard considering the usual situation in territories controlled by the Kraven Corp. Something about a CP on every street corner and a block of soylent green in every pot, I believe."

Jack Romney quiety walks into the room, careful not to draw attention by disturbing those at the table. He walks to the back row of the audience and sits down, taking stock of the rest of the room. Politicians mostly, plus one ugly baby. He checks to make sure his .357 and his knives are strapped securely to his sides, and begins listening in on the topic that is being discussed.

OOC: (Anyone needing more character info check the character thread.) Next post will be in the morning. I'm about to go to bed, so...

IC: Jack feels his eyelids getting heavy. He takes one final look around the room, and dozes off, still half-listening to what's going on. Sleeping with one eye open, as they say.

Ajac: Why don't my advisors tell me these things?
Sigh.
Look, what about the Cobra Offensive, since we're keeping to the body metaphor?
For those of you wondering, the cobra offensive is named so for the way a cobra's venom works. It cuts off the nerves which connect the brain to the body.
Thus, if the brain is in it's bunker miles below bedrock, cut it off. Seal up the capital and bomb it to Hell. Unless you have a better idea?

Amuo intruded a little, "A little rash, what ever happened to diplomacy? Isn't that the best option?"

Leon (*foreign minister of Arkapolis) stands up: The living conditions of the refugees is unacceptable. We the people of Arkapolis believe in civil rights, and people's inherent right to free and adequete health services. We are willing to offer our doctors and volunteers and propose that a health center be built in the refugee camp.

Leon (*foreign minister of Arkapolis) stands up: The living conditions of the refugees is unacceptable. We the people of Arkapolis believe in civil rights, and people's inherent right to free and adequete health services. We are willing to offer our doctors and volunteers and propose that a health center be built in the refugee camp.

OOC: This ended a long time ago. x-x

Ajac: Amuo, for once your wisdom fails you. This is not a diplomatic situation, you heard Lynch. And I refuse to roll over like a dog to Kraven!

Yawning, Jack sees that the same people are still sitting sround the table and talking about the same war, one that he's heard nothing about before now. While this subject is moderately interesting, he decides to wait a little while before entering the debate himself. While he does not go down to the table yet, Jack moves up a few rown in the audience, for a better view of everythihng that's going on.

OOC: Be back later, then I'll join in. Did everyone see my other post on the last page?

OOC: Okay Glitter.
IC:
Amuo sighed and displayed a list of histories wars. "These wars are pointless, over 90% of them could have been solved by war. Your egos are destroying your resources, lives, and dreams. War is hell."

OOC: Okay Glitter.
IC:
Amuo sighed and displayed a list of histories wars. "These wars are pointless, over 90% of them could have been solved by war. Your egos are destroying your resources, lives, and dreams. War is hell."

"If I may interject," Yazu said as he walked into the room, "War is sometimes, actually often, needed. Do you think we should try diplomacy with Kraven? Do you think diplomacy would have got the terrorists that nuked us to stand down? No. That is why we needed to declare war, and hunt down the terrorists."

Seth spoke up, "Amuo is really right, how'd things get this bad in the first place? I come from Asbena which has only forced into one war and ended it with minimal causalties. The lives of 20 people were lost, but they didn't die in vain. Just know that when things cross a line you cannot always return."

Standing up and walking over to the table, Jack takes a seat and says, "This war may be in vain, it may not, I don't know enough about the situation to make that judgement, but violence is one constant in the world. No matter where you are, you will experience violence, needless or not. Why try to stop it?"

Lynch: Why try to stop it? To save innocent lives. As Churchhill said, "We seek not an end to this war, but an end to all wars."

Jack: "If you honestly believe there is a way to end all wars, then be my guest. Continue your little quest for peace. But it won't happen. Same reason as all those so called communist countries went to shit. It's human nature."

Jack: "If you honestly believe there is a way to end all wars, then be my guest. Continue your little quest for peace. But it won't happen. Same reason as all those so called communist countries went to shit. It's human nature."

"Jack is correct."

Lynch: It's an ideal, Jack. We aren't capable of ending wars, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't try.

Lynch: It's an ideal, Jack. We aren't capable of ending wars, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't try.

"Now, I'm all for peace, but it's impossible to truly keep it for long. There's always some psycho."

The others let them talk, preparing their comments for when it next was possible for them.

OOC: Just an update to let you know I am still here. :)

Lynch: That is true. Again, I'm talking about ideals, not reality.

Lynch: That is true. Again, I'm talking about ideals, not reality.

"Just as on paper, Communism is perfect, so are your ideals." He shook his head. "If only it all worked out!"

Seth and Leang scoffed, mocking communism as a dream that could never work do to corruption that exists, even on paper the idea is fit to slaves or computers only.

Seth and Leang scoffed, mocking communism as a dream that could never work do to corruption that exists, even on paper the idea is fit to slaves or computers only.

Yazu looked at them. "I did say 'on paper', you know."

Jack: "Lynch, if you will readily admit that your quest is only an ideal, and absolutely unattainable, then why try? Why make your own life so much harder? Sure, you may save a few lives here and there, but I can save just as many lives on my own without a quest to end all violence in the world."

Jack: "Lynch, if you will readily admit that your quest is only an ideal, and absolutely unattainable, then why try? Why make your own life so much harder? Sure, you may save a few lives here and there, but I can save just as many lives on my own without a quest to end all violence in the world."
Lynch: Are you a coward? Unwilling to make sacrifices to save the lives of others? Boy, I've seen war my entire life, and fought in a fair few of them. The Troubles, the Irish Civil War, and now the war with Kraven. Let me tell you something: war is hell. It's an old cliche, but it has never been wrong.
Not all wars can be stopped, but many can, and should be.

Lynch: Are you a coward? Unwilling to make sacrifices to save the lives of others? Boy, I've seen war my entire life, and fought in a fair few of them. The Troubles, the Irish Civil War, and now the war with Kraven. Let me tell you something: war is hell. It's an old cliche, but it has never been wrong.
Not all wars can be stopped, but many can, and should be.

"Now THAT I agree with."

Leang says, "That is why you must either surpass your enemies completely or not even attempt a war. We're talking laser death if someone takes a dump on our country without being a citizen!"

Seth laughed and the firey Leang laughed to.

Lynch: Are you a coward? Unwilling to make sacrifices to save the lives of others? Boy, I've seen war my entire life, and fought in a fair few of them. The Troubles, the Irish Civil War, and now the war with Kraven. Let me tell you something: war is hell. It's an old cliche, but it has never been wrong.
Not all wars can be stopped, but many can, and should be.

Jack: I am not a coward. I have scars just the same as you, I'm sure. But fighting wars does not help to stop them. You take opportunities, you help people that need it. But you do not do so by fighting a war. You do not kill to save lives. I do not deny that war is hell. But I prefer to keep myself out of hell, and help others out of it. But that cannot be accomplished by joining one side of the war itself. No war has ever ended that did not begin another."

Jack: I am not a coward. I have scars just the same as you, I'm sure. But fighting wars does not help to stop them. You take opportunities, you help people that need it. But you do not do so by fighting a war. You do not kill to save lives. I do not deny that war is hell. But I prefer to keep myself out of hell, and help others out of it. But that cannot be accomplished by joining one side of the war itself. No war has ever ended that did not begin another."
Lynch: Kraven will not seek a diplomatic alternative to military action. War with him is inevitable. If you do not fight him, he will massacre your civilians. His goal is world domination, and he will take the world by force.
Perhaps you are suggesting the appeasement strategy, and you would prefer to be Kraven's puppet?

Leang: "Puppets are good only if they are kept as puppets, though you shouldn't submit yourself to being a puppet while you can still fight!"

Leang: "Puppets are good only if they are kept as puppets, though you shouldn't submit yourself to being a puppet while you can still fight!"

"You do not understand."

"Kraven will kill you if you oppose. War, total war, is the only option against him and his gulags."

Lynch: Kraven will not seek a diplomatic alternative to military action. War with him is inevitable. If you do not fight him, he will massacre your civilians. His goal is world domination, and he will take the world by force.
Perhaps you are suggesting the appeasement strategy, and you would prefer to be Kraven's puppet?

Jack: Yes, because that's exactly what I was saying. Actually, I haven't been saying anything about your war with Kraven here. I already said I don't know enough about it to make any judgements. We're just discussing the general idea of ending all wars. And you call me a coward and a puppet for saying that fighting wars is not the best way to end them, or even to save lives."

Leang: "Puppets are good only if they are kept as puppets, though you shouldn't submit yourself to being a puppet while you can still fight!"
Lynch: Glad to see we get some support from our hosts.

Jack: Yes, because that's exactly what I was saying. Actually, I haven't been saying anything about your war with Kraven here. I already said I don't know enough about it to make any judgements. We're just discussing the general idea of ending all wars. And you call me a coward and a puppet for saying that fighting wars is not the best way to end them, or even to save lives."
Lynch: I didn't call you a puppet, and I only called you a coward when you said... what was it... ah, yes: "Why make your own life so much harder?" after I was talking about making the world a better place, by making sacrifices.

Lynch: I didn't call you a puppet, and I only called you a coward when you said... what was it... ah, yes: "Why make your own life so much harder?" after I was talking about making the world a better place, by making sacrifices.

Jack: "I've made sacrifices as well, to save lives. But I do not pretend to be able to attain something that noone will ever be able to accomplish. That is what makes your life harder. I don't mean to suggest that I haven't made sacrifices, and surely, if you feel that this war with Kraven is necessary to protect your homeland, then by all means, fight. But in many cases, wars are not fought for that same reason, and this is when you must question them as a means of saving lives."

Lynch: Perhaps you could tell me when I said that wars should be fought to end wars, outside of the context of the Kraven war?

Jack: "I was only speaking of a general concept when I came to the table, and that was the fact that violence will never end in this world. You said that even knowing that, your quest to stop all wars is valid. My apologies if I put words in your mouth, I was only speaking in general terms when I said that war was not a means to end war or save lives. I cannot pretend to know enough about your situation to question your actions, I have just been trying to explain my own views on war and saving lives."

Jack: "I was only speaking of a general concept when I came to the table, and that was the fact that violence will never end in this world. You said that even knowing that, your quest to stop all wars is valid. My apologies if I put words in your mouth, I was only speaking in general terms when I said that war was not a means to end war or save lives. I cannot pretend to know enough about your situation to question your actions, I have just been trying to explain my own views on war and saving lives."
Lynch: Ah, I think you may have misinterpreted me. When I was talking about my quest to end all wars, I was speaking of an ideal. In most cases, war is not a means to save lives. There are exceptions, however. The Kravenian war is one of them, WWII was another.

Lynch: Ah, I think you may have misinterpreted me. When I was talking about my quest to end all wars, I was speaking of an ideal. In most cases, war is not a means to save lives. There are exceptions, however. The Kravenian war is one of them, WWII was another.

Jack: "Yes, I did admit that your war with Kraven, since it is being fought for your own homeland, is an exception. I do not deny that there are exceptions, but in general, you're correct. There are much better ways to save lives. I still believe, however, that a quest to end all war is futile, whatever means you choose to use. Violence will always be present, and the most you can hope to do is a save a few lives here and there."

Ajac jumps back into his seat.
"Geez, an Emperor can't even take a break to sleep!
Look, the search for an end to all wars is not futile. Mankind has every possibility to cease being Homeo Ferox and become Homeo Pax. Arthur proved that. Buddha proved that. Muhhamed proved that. Christ proved that.
We just need to work at it. It'll take a couple of millenia, but we have to try. We HAVE to."

Ajac jumps back into his seat.
"Geez, an Emperor can't even take a break to sleep!
Look, the search for an end to all wars is not futile. Mankind has every possibility to cease being Homeo Ferox and become Homeo Pax. Arthur proved that. Buddha proved that. Muhhamed proved that. Christ proved that.
We just need to work at it. It'll take a couple of millenia, but we have to try. We HAVE to."

OOC: WE ARE LONG OFF THAT.

OCC: how d'you figure? I'm just following along with the posts directly above mine.

OCC: how d'you figure? I'm just following along with the posts directly above mine.

OOC: Different subject.

OCC: before i make a complete fool of myself, what did you think i was talking about, and what did you think they were talking about?

OCC: before i make a complete fool of myself, what did you think i was talking about, and what did you think they were talking about?

OOC: About what we were talking about two pages ago.

Ooc: Bump Bump Bump

OOC: About what we were talking about two pages ago.

OOC: I think it had some relevance to the conversation between Jack and Lynch which was going on directly above his post. *shrug* If not, then what's the new subject? I don't see one.

OCC: i think it's all just been one big misunderstanding. right?
ICC:
Ajac wipped out his ringing cell phone.
"Yes? Zephyr? What is it? What's wrong? SLOW DOWN MAN!
Alright. Now, what have you found out from your informents? I see.....I see.....WHAT?!
OK, Ok, You get this to the proper people back home. I'll bring what info I can to the Round Table. What do you mean "why can't you tell them everything?" Because it isn't confirmed yet! Just keep your head, and let me do my job."
The young emperor sighed. "Ladies and gentlemen. My top spy has given me some unconfirmed information that we should re-open the discussion of Kraven. We now believe Kraven has been watching us, and has moved. From what my agent tells me, however, Kraven is focusing on enemy spies, which would explain my agent's fear, if what you say of Kraven is even half true. Again, this is unconfirmed, but worth thinking on."