NationStates Jolt Archive

I have recenly make a storefront for time-travel. people have said it is godmoding. what do you think?

Uh yes... it definately is.

It could be used to basically undo anything, anyperson, or anyevent.

Yes. No defense against it, even in FT. Instead of an actual battle, you go back and assasinate their leader? Pfft.

Well, how is it not likely to spark godmodding?

Well, how is it not likely to spark godmodding?

85%?

if you belive that ftl is possible then why not timetravel? you have to understand that anything that is scifi should be consider godmoding if this is. ftl that is inposible in real life but not here. timetravel is impossible in both. please explain how this makes sense.

Look at it from a gameplay standpoint, though - even if it's no more farfethched than FTL travel, it has a far more powerful impact on things than FTL. Most people in an FT rp will have basically equivelent access to technology. If everyone had timetravel capability, how would you keep track of all the changes in the timeline?

85%?
and how did you make this calculation?

and how did you make this calculation?

Well, seriously, time-travel will spark Godmodding. A lot of it. And fine, maybe like 60%. But still, it will spark it.

People let FTL go because it isn't a super thing, it just makes it so you can get places faster. I mean, what kind of RP would it be if you had to have your people board a ship, go into a stasis chamber for 200 years and then wake up to be at the place you want to conquer? Or if we were all in the same star system, it would become very crowded very quickly. Also, it's not like with FTL you can destroy somebody just by squishing a bug under your foot.

With time travel, all you need to do is go "ZOMG!!! ME=TEH PWN!!!! HERES I GO BAK TO THE FUTURE TO DESTROY YOU!!!!! OH ZORS LOL LOL I WIN YOU LOSE BECAUSE I WENT BACK TO YOUR STONE AGE AND SHOT ALL YOUR PEOPLE NOW YOUR PLANET IS DEVOID OF LIFE, OH ZORS!!!!!1111ROMANNUMERALONE"

It is not that we think it should be impossible, just that it is unfair. If controlled in precise ways, it can be used to completly destroy a country.

fine you win. i will take it off the market and complete destory the 10 machines i've made.

Sure, enjoy time travel. Just wait till a signatory of the Temporal Accord showsup and kills you.

Look at it from a gameplay standpoint, though - even if it's no more farfethched than FTL travel, it has a far more powerful impact on things than FTL. Most people in an FT rp will have basically equivelent access to technology. If everyone had timetravel capability, how would you keep track of all the changes in the timeline?
What he said. Without FTL FT RP is basically impossible. With timetravel FT RP is basically impossible.

fine you win. i will take it off the market and complete destory the 10 machines i've made.

Nothing off our chests.

Time travel has already been tried in NS RP. It hasn't passed muster before and I don't see it starting to now.

fine you win. i will take it off the market and complete destory the 10 machines i've made.

did anybody read this post?

It depends on how its used, I mean if you had characters, and an rp that its entire basis was to go back in time and do some thing, its not unless they are trying to make a nation cease to exist. But really temporal tech needs to be agreed upon both players in a thread.

Time travel is an acceptable PLOT device so long as all parties agree on the various factors.

it is godmoding.

Time travel is an acceptable PLOT device so long as all parties agree on the various factors.

Yes, I was going to say that in my first post in this thread, but I decided not to.


That being said, 1010102 has dropped the issue.

Well, seriously, time-travel will spark Godmodding. A lot of it. And fine, maybe like 60%. But still, it will spark it.
I would've thought it woudl be somewere close to 90%

I would've thought it woudl be somewere close to 90%
90%? Well, maybe, but not likely.

fine you win. i will take it off the market and complete destory the 10 machines i've made.
You can't, I went back in time and killed you in your crib, the time machines are now mine

But surely if you killed the person who made them before they were made they would no longer exist? And the fact they don't exist means the whole idea of killing the person who owned/made the machines is impossible....

Grandfather Paradox

Google it when ur bored next time

I say its not, at least not if certain limits are set.

1.) Only travel to the past is possible.

2.) No mega-leaps through time. Say, only a max of a week, at most.

3.) Mega-leaps through time only if its the core of the RP. Then you must make the trip an accident either due to a power surge or because of some natural phenomenan(sp?).

4.) Only used as a last resort in cases of emergency (ie, save the world from the brink of destruction or alien invasion type stuff).

Just read this (http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=6737192#post6737192).

If Hawkins is correct, time-travel would not be god-modding.

This is the current hypothesis:

Take for instance a ball that goes through a wormhole, it takes a minute to go through this wormhole but gets spit back out 1 minute in the past, right when it initially went into the wormhole.

Imagine this ball would collide with itself as so it would not go into the wormhole to go back in time. This, according to scientist would be impossible, and something would happen to prevent the ball from colliding with itself and the ball would proceed to go back in time.

Similarly, if Nation A was about to be destroyed by Nation B and sent a craft back to the past to annihilate Nation B in the past, somethign would happen to stop them from doing so (not sure what) as the reason they were sent back in time was because Nation B was about to destroy them. If the craft were able to destroy Nation B it would be like the ball hittign itself off course from being sent back to the past.

So if someone went back in time to try and re-write their nation's death they would merely be re-viewing their nations' inevitable ass-kicking over and over and over if they kept going back in time and (by hypothesis) not being able to change anything.

Make sense?

Time travel is godmoding in NS, for obvious reasons. However, for FT, time travel is probably the most possible to actually work Godmod there is. Just don't use it except in a scripted RP, its bound to make a messy RP otherwise.

Totally godmoding, for obvious reasons.

If Hawkins is correct, time-travel would not be god-modding.

This is the current hypothesis:

Take for instance a ball that goes through a wormhole, it takes a minute to go through this wormhole but gets spit back out 1 minute in the past, right when it initially went into the wormhole.

Imagine this ball would collide with itself as so it would not go into the wormhole to go back in time. This, according to scientist would be impossible, and something would happen to prevent the ball from colliding with itself and the ball would proceed to go back in time.

Similarly, if Nation A was about to be destroyed by Nation B and sent a craft back to the past to annihilate Nation B in the past, somethign would happen to stop them from doing so (not sure what) as the reason they were sent back in time was because Nation B was about to destroy them. If the craft were able to destroy Nation B it would be like the ball hittign itself off course from being sent back to the past.

So if someone went back in time to try and re-write their nation's death they would merely be re-viewing their nations' inevitable ass-kicking over and over and over if they kept going back in time and (by hypothesis) not being able to change anything.

Make sense?

Bjornoya makes a very good point.

However, this is why it would lead to intense GMing (people doing stuff that would change the future against what it was that caused them to be sent back). It would also be kind of stupid. Say you went back in time to assassinate a dictator, you would already know that it would fail.

I voted yes; however, there is away to get around it for FT. In Star Trek they developed “temporal shields” which protect a vessel from changes to the timeline. So you can easily say that you have incorporated temporal shielding into your planets, ships, or stations regular shield systems.

Time Travel is a great plot device for pre-agreed outcomes in threads where all parties agree. For open war threads with no forgone conclusion and little communication, they're hell.

So yes and no.

I don't think it is a Godmod.

As long as the person is using it in good health and humour.

But at the same time, you may as well not because this rpg is too complicated because of many Godmodders and non-Godmodders.

So I'd just either edit it to something else or have it closedown.

I say no, because i'm of the belief, like the whole Ball thing, something will happen that will prevent you from altering the past, that, or your action in the past is what caused the future you wanted to change in the first place.

Time travel, in FT, is not generally regarded as a god-mod. What you do with time-travel, however, can be.

According to the Temporal Accord, there are restrictions placed on Temporal Technology.

There is a branch of FT weaponry/science called Temporal Technology. This includes such things as Temporal Cores, Temporal Erasure Weapons, etc. There is also a Temporal Tech Level.

Temporal Technology, at one point, was widely used, however, now that it is no longer regulated, it has fallen out of favour.

From a scientific standpoint, Time Travel is theoretically possible, as it is mandated by supersymmetry in the form of Tachyons, particles of negative mass which cause time to flow in reverse because of a negative gravitational distortion of space time surrounding them. Tachyons travel faster than light (theoretically).

As velocity is less than C, time 'flows' 'forward'. Should velocity equal C, time would theoretically stop (because of complications of relativity and certain circumstances). At velocities exceeding C, or negative masses, time 'flows' 'backwards'.

Think of it as a function whose second derivative is positive left of 0, negative right of 0, and a critical point at 0.

No.

I guess it depends on whether it's being used to enhance the story (RP) or to just avoid something that a player doesn't want to face. In the latter category, there are already mechanisms in place to keep a player's nation from destruction - not picking fights with bigger nations.

For example, I used some weird temporal stuff to do a retroactive continuity on Krioval. Since nobody was involved in active RP with me at the time, I don't see the problem.

If Hawkins is correct, time-travel would not be god-modding.

This is the current hypothesis:

Take for instance a ball that goes through a wormhole, it takes a minute to go through this wormhole but gets spit back out 1 minute in the past, right when it initially went into the wormhole.

Imagine this ball would collide with itself as so it would not go into the wormhole to go back in time. This, according to scientist would be impossible, and something would happen to prevent the ball from colliding with itself and the ball would proceed to go back in time.

Similarly, if Nation A was about to be destroyed by Nation B and sent a craft back to the past to annihilate Nation B in the past, somethign would happen to stop them from doing so (not sure what) as the reason they were sent back in time was because Nation B was about to destroy them. If the craft were able to destroy Nation B it would be like the ball hittign itself off course from being sent back to the past.

So if someone went back in time to try and re-write their nation's death they would merely be re-viewing their nations' inevitable ass-kicking over and over and over if they kept going back in time and (by hypothesis) not being able to change anything.

Make sense?

Which is why the Terminators never worked! :eek:

No.
Considering that over a two to one margin of players who voted in this poll disagrees with you, including several RPers who have an excellent reputation, I'd think you'd need to elaborate on your reasons for why you think time travel isn't a Godmode.

Otherwise, I'll just say "Yes" and be done with it.

Which is why the Terminators never worked! :eek:

LOL, if the ball were about to collide with itself, and thus prevent itself from entering the wormhole and going back in time...

Arnold Schwarzenegger would kick its ass!

Every time a nation goes into the past to change things, they create a new timeline, nothing changes in the original timeline so in effect they just created a new set of circumstances different from the original one. Just an idea, so it can't change what is happening now. This is an answer which can be used.

This allows you to continue using your nation however you want after a time travel incident. It just means your nation was changed for the discussion thread where the time travel occurred.

I think that if you really must you can use timetravel for rp purposes only, no avtually battles or out of country affairs of course but you know, for a bit of extra storyline however it IS impossible by most standards and it'd be hard to convince people to allow it.

Considering that over a two to one margin of players who voted in this poll disagrees with you, including several RPers who have an excellent reputation, I'd think you'd need to elaborate on your reasons for why you think time travel isn't a Godmode.

Otherwise, I'll just say "Yes" and be done with it.

I'd need to elaborate if I was trying to convince someone, but...bah...alright

I just feel that if it's not abused, there's no reason to call it a godmod.

Using it unreasonbly of course would be godmodding.

How do I define "unreasonable" or "abused"? Come now... If the person isn't smart enough to know, then there's no point trying to RP with them in the first place.

Time Travel is a godmod and most temporal tech is a godmod in my personal opinion.

Too durn many paradoxes to bother with and that whole bit about "It all spawns another timeline, nothing is really affected" is just another excuse along the lines of "Its in another universe so nyeah!" to get away with various pipe-dreams. There is too much to keep track of so its better off just not being used at all.

IMO, it's possible to do a good time travel RP. However, doing it without godmodding is almost as difficult as time-travel itself. The potential for abuse is very high. Not to mention what it can do to the space-time continum (sic)

Time travel, in itself is not godmode, but must be used with care, like nuclear weapons in MTRP'S
my core facilities have chronology protection sheilding,
just like my MT aspect has an anti-ICBM network.

Time travel is absolutely impossible.

You can't stop time... so how do you expect to go back in it.

If humans can't even grasp the present moment, how can they escape to previous ones?

Time travel is absolutely impossible.

1.) There is no telling what the future might hold.

You can't stop time... so how do you expect to go back in it.

2.) Easily. Sling-shot around a black hole.

If humans can't even grasp the present moment, how can they escape to previous ones?

3.) As a nation that doesn't RP with humans, one of a few actually, your last statement comes into question.

I dropped the subject!

I dropped the subject!

1.) I know.

2.) Don't care. Its an interesting topic of discussion. One I wouldn't mind getting answered once-and-for-all.

It is, and yet it is not. If a nation Time Travels to avoid an unforseen turn of events he/she does not like, yes, its godmodding. NS is a game, like any other, you have to take the good with the bad.

If its a part of an RP, that all players agree to, and only if its used for one specific purpose, no its not.

As well, My nation started with a Time Travel already occuring. Its how my entire dualistic religion got started.

I have recenly make a storefront for time-travel. people have said it is godmoding. what do you think?
Nothing is Gdmoding in and of itself.
It is how it is RPd, with agreement and properly done no it is of course not Godmoding.

If you simply go back in time on someone and do something to them beyond their control you have godmodded.

Most of the Wankers with invicible tech I see are only Wankers because of how they RP their tech...not because of the tech itself.

That is like saying a gun is a murderer because it shot someone.....whose finger is on the trigger?

2.) Easily. Sling-shot around a black hole.

To slingshot around something you need to be able to escape its gravitational field again, and escaping from a black hole is easier said than done. Your ship will be sucked in so quickly you'd think it was time travel.

To slingshot around something you need to be able to escape its gravitational field again, and escaping from a black hole is easier said than done. Your ship will be sucked in so quickly you'd think it was time travel.

1.) Momentum would carry you out.

2.) A black hole is unexscapeable, only if you cross the Event Horizon.

3.) Or you could perform the old Star Trek style slingshot around a star trick. Or Stargate through a solar flare. Both would cause time travel.

You know, just because a bad sci fi show says something would cause time travel doesn't mean it's true...

Also, it would be technically possible to travel through time by actually diving into a black hole, as you theoretically hit super-luminal velocities past the event horizon. Of course, the trick is getting back out again.

how can you change what has already happened? YOU CAN'T! It's fundamentally impossible!

I don't think it is if you use time traveling properly. It depends on how you use it. If it is used by the wrong person then they can make it into a godmod.

how can you change what has already happened? YOU CAN'T! It's fundamentally impossible!

Sure you can, watch. If you read the Terminator books you'll note that Skynet knows of every unsuccessful attempt, and knows of the ways in whicxh it altered the timeline. But there was still some change.

1.) Momentum would carry you out.
Not even light can escape the gravitic force of a black hole. Maybe if you travelled faster than light, but that's impossible with our current understanding of physics. Besides, why would you go back in time just by slingshooting around a black hole? As it was said, just because it's done in some sci-fi show doesn't mean it can truly be done.

Anyway, as a more possible way of time travel, I read somewhere that time progressively slows down as you approach the speed of light (that's why your watch gets minutely affected when you travel by airplane), so technically time would go backwards if you manage to break the light barrier. However, when you reach it, time's supposed to stop completely, so you'd be stuck there with no possibility of return. You'd be frozen in time for all eternity! :eek:

Y'know i'm pretty sure half the things in FT are impossible, why are you discussing the fact that it wouldn't work?

I think that if it's done right and tastefully it's fine.

Y'know i'm pretty sure half the things in FT are impossible, why are you discussing the fact that it wouldn't work?

I think that if it's done right and tastefully it's fine.

Because half the fun of FT is tech arguments? I dunno...

Because half the fun of FT is tech arguments? I dunno...

yay, I silenced MM, wait, yay I won an argument!!!!

this is the happiest day of my life, wait, yay, I just found a penny!!!

yay, I silenced MM, wait, yay I won an argument!!!!

this is the happiest day of my life, wait, yay, I just found a penny!!!

*shatters your jaw with an 8 pound maul* You were saying? Subtlety is fun. ^_^

Yes, that WAS me being subtle.

Heh heh.

Talk softly and carry a big stick.

(Or Maul)

(Or whatever the case may be)

Heh heh.

Talk softly and carry a big stick.

(Or Maul)

(Or whatever the case may be)

I like my maul. And my 6 pound sledge, and my 2 pound ball-peen.

<_< >_> You think I'm mad, don't you?

I like my maul. And my 6 pound sledge, and my 2 pound ball-peen.

<_< >_> You think I'm mad, don't you?

Well, I think you're mad anyways, because your account is only a year old and already near 6,000 posts...

Well, I think you're mad anyways, because your account is only a year old and already near 6,000 posts...

My, GZ, where have you been? Nowadays, it's common to see one month old accounts with 6,000, 7,000, even 8,000 posts!

Or not. I just like to exaggerate.

Well, I think you're mad anyways, because your account is only a year old and already near 6,000 posts...

I do alot of warring, alot of OOCing, and a bit of Generaling. Basically, I talk alot.

Yes and no. Unrestricted time travel is just as bad as an ueber-gun which instant kills everything or limitless invulnerability shields or 1,000 kilometer ships. If used to just declare "I R TEH WINNAR" then it's a godmod. If used in a fashion to advance the plot in a way acceptable to all parties, then it's fine.
That said, I don't use time travelling or temporal technology, though the latter I at least acknowledge (i.e., that of the Temporal Accord states). In fact, temporal technology is one of the great collective fears of the masses within my nation, very much akin to the Medieval European fear of witches; extreme wariness spilling over into the irrational, with a fiery passion on the part of the poeple to eradicate said technologies (and practitioners thereof, if need be) from existence. There are even paramilitary civilian organizations with this as their primary goal, and a general desire to declare a "crusade" to rid the universe of them - something that, OOCly, I think thats a realistic goal, but something I use because it enriches my nation's background.
The point is, everything can be used to godmod. It is not a quality implicit in the tool that makes it a godmod, however, it is the intent of the OOC user.

Bah. I need to post more. I think I'll go browse the General forum..

Hah! Arizona! I briefly remember something about trying to take over one of your colonies during my Civil War... If that plan is still feasible, TG me, eh?