NationStates Jolt Archive

NCubed S (News Network of Nation States)

Today, Infoclypse Industires surprise everybody when what was supposed to be the simultaneous keel-laying of five of Infoclypses Super-dreadnaught class ships turned into the announcment of the largest and most powerful warship ever to plow the seas, the 'Appollyon' class warship will be more than 8 kilometers long and will feature the largets guns of any modern Warship, a full 50 40 inch naval guns will be supplemented by a variety of smaller weapons to deal with threats ranging from battleships to small frigates and corvettes. The revolutionarily large new warship, classed as a 'Mega-Dreadnaught' will be completed in about eight years while later addittions to the class will be added at shorter intervals as the shipwrights gain experience in construction on such a massive scale.

OOC - Eight kilometers is probably too big to be seaworthy, and almost certainly too big to go more than, say, 10 knots; besides, the draft on a ship that size would preclude its being used in all but the deepest of waters.

Jenrak now laughs as Infoclypse has now just crippled them into a minimum of a decade depression.

NCubed S (News Network of Nation States)

Amid Allegations and speculation that not only could the 'Appollyon' class ship not possibly be sea-worthy, but also that construction costs could cripple the corporate state, Prominent managers of the team responsible for the massive warships constrction have released a small press package assuring investors that there money was well spent.

Excerpts from Infoclypse Industries Press Release

...Not to worry, The Corporate State's defense budget, along with income from our various store fronts is more than enough money given the time frame, The defense budget alone is nearly four trillion dollars a year and the expected cost of the project is not expected to be greater than three trillion, and that will be spread over EIGHT years!...

... Our best Naval Engineers have spent a few yearsworking ont he problems assosciated with the project and as things stand now, we do not anticipate any problems witht he Appollyon's design or desiganted role. The 40inch guns alone, with Extended Range munitions already developed, have plenty of range to hit even on-shore targets from beyond the continental plateau, enemy super-dreadnaughts will cower in fear that such a mighty warship has been purchased by a competitor...

OOC - You do know that, with massive guns, you run into the law of diminishing returns? Further, what's the point of a ship carrying these massive guns, given their range - especially when the ship in question is probably only barely seaworthy and certainly not going to be able to go anywhere near land after it's launched...

OOC: The largest guns every built were the 36 incher mortar built by the Americans called 'Little David' That thing was terribly inaccurate and suffered from range problems. The shells were far too large and actually created significant friction. I suggest the maximum gun size of 30 inch ETC guns. More guns too.

IC: Republic of Red Algeristani Strip

We laugh at your mad venture and hope your corporation collapses from this.

OOC: That's impossible. Unfloatable, and those guns... well, if you actually hit a city-sized target, I will be suprised.

IC:

Pythogria laughs at your mad venture, but encourages you to cancel the poject, as, even if possible, it will be useless.

The Dominion hopes you follow through with the warship, so that we may have the honor of blowing it up in spectacular fashion with high-flying bombers.

The Dominion hopes you follow through with the warship, so that we may have the honor of blowing it up in spectacular fashion with high-flying bombers.

Actually, Pythogria quite likes tht proposal. Please complete it, Infoclypse.

Actually, Pythogria quite likes tht proposal. Please complete it, Infoclypse.

OOC: Tungsten Needles will actually destroy this ship, we actually have enough time for an unguided needle. Also I suggest an alternating red and white camoflague scheme then sell more versions to stupid nations.

Official Diplomatic Channel

Have fun, we'll be glad to pick up the ship for scrapping when you are bankrupt and selling everything left and right to pay for it.

VVV OOC: Enjoy your $3-4 Trillion USD Bullseye.

the PLANTs are currently under are own venture of a ship on a massive scale and we wish you good luck with your ship

IC:

In all honesty, we would be more than glad to sink your 3 trillion USD warship with a sqaudron of 1 billion dollar Lancaster IIs. Or prehaps the experience of having our "fearful" super-dreadnought crews outrange, outflank, and outfight your "warship" would be enough to reconsider such an idiotic idea as a 8 km. ship.

the PLANTs are currently under are own venture of a ship on a massive scale and we wish you good luck with your ship

Ah, we'll sink yours too! Give us some coordinates!

Ah, we'll sink yours too! Give us some coordinates!
like we would be stupid enough to tell you were a ship yard is the place is heavily defended you would never make it to the ship

Can't hide from satellites, my friend.

*Points at spy sats. Grins. Points again, this time at THOR hammers. Grin widens*

my ship be FT and deep in my territory on the far side of one of my many military ship yards

like we would be stupid enough to tell you were a ship yard is the place is heavily defended you would never make it to the ship

Oh well. If we see it, we'll note it for weapons testing. Besides, how will you defend against Rods of God? Orbital missiles?

my ship be FT and deep in my territory on the far side of one of my many military ship yards

Oh, in that case we can't know you exist.

*waves hand* this is not the nation your looking for

MT commonwealth shows up

"good luck we would happily send it to the bottom of the ocean that is if it doesn't sen it self there

[tag for later post]

you would have better luck at making an 8k island. by the way you have to be crazy. if you build this thing it will be destroyed by a massive fleet of sub,arines or planes or something. that or you will be thrown out of every pmt rp on the grounds that this has to be godmodding.

every nation will just band together and blow it up

3 words: massive coastal railguns

those things would just take it out from the coast and your ship would be gone 1 salvo below the hull and that thing is on the bottom.

OOC: The largest guns every built were the 36 incher mortar built by the Americans called 'Little David' That thing was terribly inaccurate and suffered from range problems. The shells were far too large and actually created significant friction. I suggest the maximum gun size of 30 inch ETC guns. More guns too.

IC: Republic of Red Algeristani Strip

We laugh at your mad venture and hope your corporation collapses from this.

OOC: *cough* (http://user.mc.net/~hawk/biggun.htm)

[OOC: What people are referring to when they claim diminishing returns on larger guns is based on the size of the round you're firing and the natural increase in propellant size. Barrel length is limited due to the fact that an unsupported barrel that is too long will suffer from crack and fatigue at faster rates, meaning the guns will last less. Shorter guns proportional to the amount of propellant needed to push the round at its maximum energy allowance means that the propellant will probably not expand in time to provide this energy - it's similar to why the Germans recently increased barrel length from a L/44 to a L/55 on the Leopard 2A6 - the longer barrel gives more time for the solid propellant to fully expand. Expansion of a solid propellant is based on temperature and how quickly the gas can expand under any given temperature. The same rules don't apply for electromagnetic acceleration and liquid propellants, although even liquid propellants may have problems having enough of the propellant readily available to expand [since a liquid propellant expands the most at the end of the barrel], and electromagnetic acceleration would require a huge source of energy, especially with so many guns, as compared to guns of smaller size. Furthermore, depending on weight and density, the recoil of so many guns firing during a broadside can cause severe roll on the vessel, and given time firing may cause the ship to capsize.

In any case, a ship of eight kilometers would not be able to manuever in time to avoid potentially lethal strikes, and smaller ship with the same number of guns in smaller bore may actually have an advantage since it would be able to provide the same amount of firepower and with the same range [assuming base bleed or rocket assisted shells and the fact that the propellant is fully expanding, meaning it gets the same energy as your larger shell], meaning your adversary will have a cheaper ship with the same capabilities of yours. There's also the problems of berthing such a large ship - you would need a specially prepared port to deal with the massive tonnage and draft of this monster, and finally, you risk poor density and exponentially increasing fatigue of the hull; in other words, this ship might crack in half.

Just some food for thought.]

OOC: *cough* (http://user.mc.net/~hawk/biggun.htm)

[OOC: The Little David is larger. The largest German gun, the Dora, was 800mm in bore diameter, while the Little David was 36 inches, or 914.4mm in diameter. Difference was the Dora was a full fledge artillery cannon, while the Little David was a huge mortar, and the Dora actually saw combat while the American counterpart didn't. That said, the Germans had a plan of putting the Dora on a chassis, powered by a diesel engine from a submarine and creating what would effectively be the largest self-propelled gun in the world. It never got off the drawing board - the Anat, which is now moving slowly in Zarbia, is the recreation with a few advances [major...very major...advances]. For those that are insane, I would not suggest it and actually suggest you go for something more...original. I obviously failed in that respect. :D ]

3 words: massive coastal railguns

those things would just take it out from the coast and your ship would be gone 1 salvo below the hull and that thing is on the bottom.

i perfer linear cannons they work better then a rail gun because it fires both kinds of shells

i perfer linear cannons they work better then a rail gun because it fires both kinds of shells

[OOC: So does the railgun; you'd just need to make sure you choose the right fuse for the armoured piercing high explosive shell so that the massive G forces don't prematurely set off the fuse.]

OOC: do you even know what a rail gun is?its a weapon which uses electromagnetic forces, rather than gunpowder, to fire solid projectiles at very high velocities. A railgun consist of two conductive rails, to which an electrical current is applied, and a metal projectile which fits between them and completes the electrical circuit. The current flowing through the rails produces a powerful magnetic field, which interacts with the current running across the projectile to create an immense outward force that accelerates the projectile down the weapon's barrel

Of course. And that prevents use of HEAP shells... how?

[OOC: That's wonderful, and it's more or less common knowledge. In any case, that doesn't constrict the type of round being used on the gun. The only problem currently with using non-APFSDS munitions is the fuse. The G forces withstood by the shell when moving at such massive velocities would cuase the fuse to prematurely detonate, which presents the major problem, but within itself a fuse controlled weapon would have no problem leaving a railgun, or a coil gun, or any other variation of gun that uses electromagnetic propulsion as opposed to a solid propellant or a liquid propellant. Post-modern fuses or even protected fuses for the modern world would and might be able to withstand said forces acting on the shell, meaning it would not premature detonate, meaning non-APFSDS rounds would be able to be fired from a gun using electromagnetic acceleration. By the way, linear guns use electromagnetic acceleration as well, the only difference is that it works more like a Gauss rifle which would apply different laws of physics [Gauss' Law as opposed to Lorentz' Force]. The same problem with forces on the shell would apply to the Gauss rifle since it still provides massive velocity increases to the round being fired. And please, next time you provide an argument, adress what's in question, not provide information to attempt to manifest your 'knowledge' that, by the way, failed completely to be relevant to what I said.]

OOC: collage kid eh? well am not about to get into a debate i know i cant win

[OOC: The Little David is larger. The largest German gun, the Dora, was 800mm in bore diameter, while the Little David was 36 inches, or 914.4mm in diameter. Difference was the Dora was a full fledge artillery cannon, while the Little David was a huge mortar, and the Dora actually saw combat while the American counterpart didn't. That said, the Germans had a plan of putting the Dora on a chassis, powered by a diesel engine from a submarine and creating what would effectively be the largest self-propelled gun in the world. It never got off the drawing board - the Anat, which is now moving slowly in Zarbia, is the recreation with a few advances [major...very major...advances]. For those that are insane, I would not suggest it and actually suggest you go for something more...original. I obviously failed in that respect. :D ]

Larger in bore diameter, perhaps, but it's hardly fair to compare a 914mm/7.79 mortar to an 800mm/59.125 railgun. The Gustav's projectiles alone weighed more than 4x that of Little David's. When you look at the ranges of the two guns (9.65km vs 37.2km), it's certianly no contest.

3 words: massive coastal railguns


[OOC: This thing wouldn't be able to get close enough to shore to do any damage.]

Larger in bore diameter, perhaps, but it's hardly fair to compare a 914mm/7.79 mortar to an 800mm/59.125 railgun. The Gustav's projectiles alone weighed more than 4x that of Little David's. When you look at the ranges of the two guns (9.65km vs 37.2km), it's certianly no contest.

[OOC: Yes, but the comparison was more or less about bore diameter, not projectile range or weight. I would rather have the Dora to the Little David any day, but alas, technically the David was larger. Difference in type of munition and how the munition was fired would be irrelevent in this case.]

NCubed S (News Network of Nation States)

Speculation and Derision continue to plague Infoclypse Industries plan to construct an 8 kilometer long 'mega dreadnaught' although now, the project seems to have a more deadly opponent. Earlier today explosions were seen at the shipyards where the 'Appollyon' class ship was being built. whether these were caused by an industrial accident, terrorist action or some other happening is not yet clear, although images from the scene seem to indicate that large portions of superstructure that had been well underway have been destroyed including the completed housings for several of the massive 40in. guns. While Infoclypse is being very circumspect about the actual explosions, they apparently have no problem discussing the consequences for the project. 'Due to Budget and time constraints' said one spokesperson, 'we will not be rebuilding the destroyed 40in. guns but will be replacing the destroyed mountings with triple mounted 32in. guns, leaving only 2 of the double mounts for 40in. guns on the final design', a money saving move that another spokesperson stated would allow the company to invest more research into making the guns as deadly as possible, fighting off criticism of their unwieldy size and the diminishing returns of modern large-caliber weapons by saying that new methods of propulsion are in the works that will enable the guns easily 'scale up' from smaller weapons, giving them vastly increased accuracy and range over both the initial proposal and other existing large caliber naval weapons. Still mired in controversy, the ships schedule has been moved back to an undetermined date several years passed the original estimate