NationStates Jolt Archive


Hosting Issues [closed, Uploaded Minds]

Allanea
23-03-2006, 23:44
Somewhere in Allanea

“You know, those Uploadees... they are onto something.” - Mahmoud Al-Rafti smiled as he layed his Pocket-PC on the table. “Right here it says they have once been all-biological, but have since learned to remove their minds onto computer mainframes.”

“So? How would this help anyone of us?”

“You are silly. Never saw the Matrix, have you? The Wachofski's had it wrong. A digital environment like that is not paradise or hell. It's a real estate program.”

“What?”

“We allow people to upload themselves onto our mainframe. They live there – working their jobs as programmers, lawyers, et caetera. Good lives – living in mansions, playing golf, anything. They'd be effectively immortal, and since we'd charge only, say, fifty bucks a month of it.... if they ever want to come out, they'd be filthy rich if they wanted to.”

“...yes, but how would we work this with the Uploadees?”

“Leave that to me.”

Official Letter from Allanean Coding, Inc., to the Uploaded Minds

Dear Friends!

Would it be possible for you to provide us technological data on the procedures involved with self-uploading? If yes, on what conditions?

Sincerely yours,

Mahmoud Al-Rafti,
CEO, Allanean Coding, Inc.
Uploaded Minds
24-03-2006, 12:39
The Network of Uploaded Minds receives lots of mails each day: death threats by religious organisations, spam, posts from mailinglists the Uploadees are interested in and all differentsorts of scams. Today however, a different sort of mail reached the network: a business proposal from Allanea. The network used that to assemble fully. How to react to a nation, which wants to upload without wanting to join the network. It was a critical issue for the Uploadees: On the one hand there were the ethical issues. On the other hand the network had no money of any sort for exchange processes with the outer world, except for 10 dollars for finding a bug in a supposedly bugfree OpenSource program. We can say that the discussion was long and heated. Moderator1 had a difficult job. Eventually a reply was sent:

Dear Mahmoud Al-Rafti,
while the programs are in principle OpenSource, the license does not say that one must distribute the technology freely. Our first question is the status of the Uploadees in Allanea. Are they considered citizens, do they have the right to vote and the possibility as well? Would they be able to move to a different hosting platform if they desired?
yours sincerely,
Kmndeliq,
trade committee of Uploaded Minds
Allanea
24-03-2006, 12:50
Dear Kmndeliq,

There is no legal precedent as to the legal status of uploadees. A lawsuit is currently pending (Susie MK I Heavy Engineering Platform vs. the United States Department of the Navy) to determine the legal status of Artificial Intelligences, but that does not have any direct bearing on this circumstance. I suspect heavily that the status of Uploadees on hosting hardware in Allanea will be similar to that of tenants in appartments, unless of course an Uploadee owns said hardware as personal property. Please consult databases at URL http://findlaw.com as to Allanea's views on private property. http://constitution.org can help as well.

Sincerely yours,
Mahmoud Al-Rafti,
CEO, Allanean Coding, Inc.
Uploaded Minds
24-03-2006, 15:16
Dear Mahmoud Al-Rafti,

You can understand that we do not want the uploadees to become a new serving class devoid of human rights and basic dignity. We can only give you this technology if we can be sure Uploads have basic rights and are garanteed an internet-connection or a physical avatar to connect to the outside. We must not allow this as technology for imprisonment or torture.
I am sure you understand our problems with this.

Yours sincerely,
Kmndeliq
Allanea
24-03-2006, 16:34
Dear Kmndeliq,

The purpose of my project is to provide Allaneans with a new kind of commercial-quality real estate, which will also enable them to do work etc. in their previous job. (See also attached corporate project and loan application paperwork copies for details of our business process). As you see this is not any kind of prison, and in fact using it in this way would be thoroughly illegal in the United States of Allanea, as this, praise Allah, is a free country.

Sincerely yours,
Mahmoud Al-Rafti.
Uploaded Minds
24-03-2006, 17:18
Dear Mahmoud Al-Rafti,

If a technology exists in a society, it will find different uses. Who says a private prison company wouldn't license the technology from you? New technologies have not just new possibilities but also unexpected dangers to the current system. Even if we have no doubt about your current intentions, we do have doubts about the morals of the corporation with this technology.
This is not an insult to you, it is just that that we did see horrible sttrocies happen in our time in Centersol.

Yours sincerely,
Kmndeliq
Allanea
25-03-2006, 13:45
Dear KmndeliqM,

You are correct. The question is, how do you belive that te industry should self-regulate? How do you think Allanean Coding can act to prevent misuse of the technology? We would be grateful if you made any suggestions to us on this issue. You understand that we are as wary of possible misuse of the technology as you are. Would you like to meet with the representatives of Allanean Coding, Inc. to discuss this issue?

Yours sincerely,
Mahmoud Al-Rafti
Uploaded Minds
26-03-2006, 20:56
Dear Mahmoud Al-Rafti,

As far as I see, the only way misuse can be prevented is harsh self-regulation. There might not yet a legal precedent, but there can be treaties which only allow the usage if the uploadees are granted citizenship and the full status of a sentient being and would force you to destroy the technology and let us reinstate the Uploadees if this can not be legally assured. Proliferation of the technology would depend on this terms being agreed on. Violation of these terms means that the community can and will sue.
But you are right, it might be better if we talked it out via synchronous communication. If you have holographic projectors being able to simulate a representative, we will, the communication will be slightly lagged despite that, but I guess it is easier than meeting in the part of the Home of Many in orbit of Mars, which is designed for biological avatars. There we also can discuss the issue of compensation.

Yours sincerely,
Kmndeliq
Allanea
27-03-2006, 00:25
Dear Kmndeliq !

The Record Industry Association of Allanea handles a large amount of self-regulation and contract enforcement services for the programming community in the United States – both the closed-source programmers and the open-source one. Attached find a high-resolution .avi recording of RIAA operatives enforcing a judge's warrant on the premises of OpenLNX, Inc. Note specifically the smoke coming out of the second floor window. This will give you about the picture about how the software industry in Allanea prevents contract breach and license abuse.

The United States of Allanea in general and myself in particular are quite dedicated to the defense of individual liberty, and as such we are asuring you of our agreement. I will be happy to meet with you to discuss the particulars of the mission. You would be no doubt, however, happy to find out that we filed an amicus curiae brief in Susie MK I Heavy Engineering Platform vs. the United States Department of the Navy, supporting Susie's appeal.

We can discuss the matter further via FTL uplink at a time desireable to you, or I could arrive at the Home of Many in my perosnal ship.


Sincerely yours,
Mahmoud Al-Rafti,
CEO, Allanean Coding, Inc.
Uploaded Minds
27-03-2006, 01:15
Dear Mahmoud Al-Rafti,

We are glad to see the legal contracts protected like this. However we prefer that next time the codec used to encrypt is freely available without having the need to reverse-engineer software, it was a good exercise and challenge though. We do not have FTL-capabilities so unless you find a relay next to us, better come to the Home of Many. Despite some minor differences, atmosphere is like on earth, gravity however lower. Please do not consider it rude if I interact with you via proxy, I am in virtual form and do not fancy being downloaded. Who will proxy for me and the committee depends only on the time you will arrive.

Yours sincerely,
Kmndeliq
Allanea
27-03-2006, 10:37
Several days later

A small Allanean SSUV (space sports/utility vehicle), a powered disc approximately the size of a small house, dropped out of hyperspace only forty kilometers from the Home of Many. It was lightly armed, carrying only one light plasma cannon and two limited racks of light anti-ship missiles, and designed for general civilian use and entertainment. As such, the internals of the ship were decorated with all the consumer electronics one would expect in an Allanean suburban home, and then some. As they approached the HoM, the weapons were unpowered and shut down, and the vessel awaited patiently for contact with the kyleth messengers, after sending out the message of its arrival.
Uploaded Minds
27-03-2006, 19:34
An system, which called itself Qinra (which of course means: Qinra is not a recursive acronym) greeted the vessel and gave short instructions on how to navigate to get to the place to 'link' as qinra said it. If one understands that the Home of Many consiste of huge numbers of independed ships who linked together it is clear how Qinra meant it.

Nfvarj is in a room, which is full of toys of kylethi kids. The biological parts of the Home of Many are primarily for parents with kids too young to be uploaded. She hastily moved some things into the corners looked around and then made a guesture which would equal a sigh and gave some commands to her implants to disguise the toys. The computer in this region reacted by starting a holographic simulation of a forrest in centersol. Dark red and green plants in fantastic forms covered the walls while the room now appears like a clearing. the chair for the guest is disguised as big plant. He exchanged quick messages with Kmndeliq and other members of the committee.

He was checking the scene, but then he saw Qinra calling to tell her about the arrival of the foreign ship and goes to meet him when he leaves
Allanea
27-03-2006, 23:58
The Allanean smiled warmly at the Kyleth. “Good day, Ma'am. I'm Mahmoud Al-Rafti... you have probably been informed by your colleagues of the purpose of my corporation's undertaking. I am here to discuss the issue of self-regulation and of the conditions that need to be imposed to prevent abuse of your software should you decide to sell it to us.”

He extends a hand to the Kyleth – secretly wondering which hand of hers to shake.
Uploaded Minds
28-03-2006, 22:18
OOC: This was RPed in IRC

Nfvarj attempts to shake hand, even though due to the different forms if is only a contanct between the hands. Mahmooud Al-Rafti returns the gesture, smiling.

Nfvarj: I am Nfvarj of the community of Uploaded Minds, you can call me Neff if you struggle to pronounce my real name

Mahmooud Al-Rafti: Neff? Very well. I am Mahmoud Al-Rafti and you can call me Mahmoud. Have you seen the earlier messages I sent?

Nfvarj: I am part of the trade committee, which dealt with your messages. Could you please follow me to our conference room?

"With pleasure," - says Al-Rafti as he turns to follow Nfvarj into the conference room.

Nfvarj tries not to walk too fast, despite the difference in the form as she leads Mahmooud Al-Rafti through the colorful corridor to a door, which opens after a quick guesture. Mahmooud Al-Rafti walks through carefully, studying his surroundings with curiosity. He smiles at the other Kyleth in the room and says: "Hello people."
The other Kylethi bow to avoid the slightly embarrassing situation of the handshake, they saw and introduce themselves.

"Praise Allah for our meeting." - said Al-Rafti politely as he looked for a place to sat down.

Nfvarj points to a mushroom-like plant on the virtual clearing. "This plant conceals a seat for you. It is for us common to sit on the ground." Nfvarj and the other uploadees sit down in a round around a even bigger mushroom than the chair which represents a table
Al-Rafti seats himself on the plant and smiles cheerfully. "Have you arrived at some form of a solution for our problem? I recommend we add a clause to the End User License Agreement prohibiting use in a manner that violates individual liberties as understood by Allanean law and precendent."

"We were thinking in similar ways..." explains Kmndeliq (only the fact that his voice did not come from his exact location proved he was a hologram), "There must be a number of terms in our treaty, which provides legal protection of the Uploaddes and instant reinstatement if these rights can not be garanteed"

Al-Rafti nods. "And, of course, monetary compensation to the Uploadee."

Nfvarj: "Of course, however the person willing to upload in the current legal situation is taking a risk since courts can decide either way"

Al-Rafti: "Well in Allanea we have freedom of contract. If we put in the EULA that persons must respect individual rights, then they are bound to it."
Nfvarj: End User License agreements do not apply to middlemen however, so a certain proliferation clause must be added
Al-Rafti: Umm yes. I have not considered that. Perhaps...
Mahmooud Al-Rafti looks at his PocketPC for a second. "It seems to me we could add something like 'All those involved in the process of distribution on this software are bound as buyers and as Allanean citizens to ensure it is not used in a fashion that violates individual rights as understood in the United States'."

Nfvarj: This sounds well, however equality on a lower position can be reached if ... well... Allanea had problems with people attempting to establish a dictatorship... but this might be a programmer's position. It might be more safe for us to set the amount of civil rights granted to the current amount in case the Ambivalentira gain more influence...

"If the Ambivalentira gain more influence, we are all fucked. There is only one choice, then." - says Mahmoud with a smile. He draws a gigantic handgun and demonstrates it to the Kyleth. "This." He then reholsters the gun.

Qinra explains the Uploadees what this is, most of them never saw any non-coded weapon and their versions looked quite different due to the form of their hands. They did know that the Allaneans are weapon-fanatics, but the fact that Mahmooud Al-Rafti is armed is quite shocking to them.

"You are not in enemy territory here, Mahmooud." Nfvarj said, "And in case of a slippery slope into less civil rights no single incident might be worth a revolution."

"It is exactly because you are not my enemy that you need not fear this weapon. Allaneans had risen up against the State time and time again, and, Allah willing, we will again be wise enough to to so." - replies Al-Rafti. "And of course, one cannot prevent ALL contingencies. The question is only how safe is safe enough."

"This is a valid and relevant question. Especially seeing that a technology introduced ina culture can not be removed without brainwashing the entire civilisation." Nfvarj stated "This makes us of course twice as careful as normally."

Mahmooud Al-Rafti "Very well. How about, 'individual rights as defined in the Allanean Constitution according to the court interpretation known in the year in which the treaty was signed'? Will that work?"

Nfvarj was slightly annoyed that the Allanean just now understood but a quick questure was incomprehensible for foreigners. "This is what I was intending to mean."

Al-Rafti: Most excellent. I assume we have that issue squared away... now what form would you like payment to be in?

Nfvarj: This is the problem seeing that our economies are assumed to be incompatible, due to the different versions. i assume that your corporation will not update itself to economy 2.0 so we need to think about a 'downgraded' deal.

Al-Rafti: Would it fit you if we paid in a large amount of gold?

Nfvarj: This sounds like the kind of 'downgraded' deal, due to the high exchange value of gold.

Al-Rafti: Also, gold can be used in electronics... so, around e tons of gold would do?

Nfvarj: While this is but quite transferrable due to the value nearly only existing in exchange, can we ask you for information in return? The information on Faster than light technology, especially for communication

"Very well," says Al-Rafti. "We will happily supply you with a sample Allanean ship possessed of subspace communication nodes and a huperdrive capacity, as well as computer files containing relevant instruction to build similar technology. Will that do?"

Nfvarj: Yes, this would be ideal!

The Allanean is pleased: "Very well. Are there other things that need to be settled?"

Nfvarj: "No, nothing from our side"

Al-Rafti says: "Very well. Let's sign the deal then."