NationStates Jolt Archive

Alright, so, I'm browsing II earlier today, and a few things came to my notice. People love to rant, and as one of the people who have what could be termed 'expierence' in the world of NS, I think I'm am able to do one of my own. Where to start? OH YES!

It's not so bad in anything like MT, but FT... oh, that's a whole other story. The reason? Simple. All the techs clash. Star Trek does not work well with Star Wars, which in turn does not work with Babylon 5 or Farscape or Battlestar Galactica. The list is endless, and that's just things you can draw from. OK, having established this very basic fact, you would have thought that those who insist on RP'ing in FT (I enjoy it, by the way), would have come up with a way to work on this. It's people like Mini Miehm or Chronosia (sorry guys, just two examples), who use stuff like warp cannons and other such weapons, insisting that 'there is no defence!'. Yeah, it's this sort of attitude that ruins the whole basis of FT. For once, I would love to see an RP that has different techs, and yet runs wonderfully, because they come to an agreement, like saying,"All shields can defend against these weapons." That would level the playing field, and truly seperate the ones who can RP from those who rely on nigh-godmodding tactics.

Alright, my next point. Those who choose to ignore their nations populations, or build uber ships... to me, it defeats the point of actually having an NS page, which tells you how many people you have. Pages like NSeconomy are a godsend to me. It tells me, in definate terms, how much I have to spend on my military and other things like that. Alright, I put my hands up and admit to ignoring certain things that NS tells me, because the system on NS, as good as it is, is vastly over exaggerated. Of course, I can hear Max Barry, [Violet] and Salusa Secondus grinding their teeth in the background, as if to say 'But then it wouldn't work!' Yep, that's true... but I think that the choices I've made would give a slightly different picture, so I go with that. SE, in my mind, is not a perfect nation. Highly advanced, a strong military, good economy, and resonable rights for it's citizens. But with the same underlying problems that afflict todays nations, such as crime, government corruption and the like. So, what was the point here? Oh yes, sorry, I was digressing. Returning to the topic at hand. People who claim to have populations in the trillions, or control of an entire galaxy, and spaceships some 20-30km long... it just doesn't work for me. I'M NOT FLAMING! I'm just expressing my views. If you don't like them, that's fine.

Alright, I'm done here... for now.

I agree with you mate, i really do. As a FT player with his own. (Non-stolen) tech it's hard, really hard.

I would like to note that not only do I no longer use Yamato Cannon, but no one ever even TRIED developing a defense specifically against them. I can think of several wys to do it, but no one ever tried at actually do anything about it. No offense SE, but they just complained about it.

Now, I stick to my population, I take several hits as a result of that, mostly military size. I cannot possibly equal nations your size in sheer numbers. I've responded in the only manner I can, and that's by taking the Tech route. It's the only way I can make any compensation for my small size, though it does occasionally lead to issues when nations decide to equate size with tech.

I agree with you, that's the same reason that my foray into FT (Years ago, probably back in late-2003) was very short-lived. Then again, I kind of regret turning back to MT as nobody seems to play it anymore, leaving players like me (None-EII, E20, AMW and 21C) all on their own.

I agree with this, i've tried several times to get into FT, but unfortuantly there is no room really for my quirky Tech, such as Lazer being stored in old fashioned style shells and fired from howitzers... but meh... its always well your tech is not as good as my tech, so i pwn j00!... or people turn up with 200km + vessels, that i cannot possibly destroy with my 5km grand battlecruiser.. hmmm....

I find FT very difficult to get into, without using one of the Generic Techs

Ah, boys.

It would appear that all anyone needs is a little innovation...or maybe numbers would work better?

Velocity of missiles, how much force a shield can take, etc etc ad nauseum.

Then no one would really want to play. Or they'd invent new ways of godmode.

It's no good whining about people that have tech too powerful, because they'll only try to defend it.

It does no good, in the end.

~snip~
...

I think you misread the point. It wasn't that you specifically used weapons which no one could defend against, or that no one would bother to try making a defence. It was that it kinda ruins the expierence. I was suggesting that, maybe, everyone could say that all shields could defend against all weapons. It would level the playing field like nothing else, don't you agree?

Theres quite a few MT wars going on, including the AMF invasion of Concremo, the battle for Czardas, the Juum' Colonial War, etc.

Theres quite a few MT wars going on, including the AMF invasion of Concremo, the battle for Czardas, the Juum' Colonial War, etc.
The problem is getting into them. I'd love to RP as an MT nation once in a while, but because of time difference and school/work commitments, my time is limited.

I dont like FT because there seems to be no fair structure to it.
I dont like MT, because everyone invents uber weapons that are probably not going to be available for another 50 years, which is PMT to me.
I like PT.

I dont like FT because there seems to be no fair structure to it.
I dont like MT, because everyone invents uber weapons that are probably not going to be available for another 50 years, which is PMT to me.
I like PT.
Well, MT is defined as anything that is currently in service or to come into active service with any military within the the next decade.

I've dabbled in some PT, and it's good fun, especially when you combine it with Fantasy.

I agree with this, i've tried several times to get into FT, but unfortuantly there is no room really for my quirky Tech, such as Lazer being stored in old fashioned style shells and fired from howitzers... but meh... its always well your tech is not as good as my tech, so i pwn j00!... or people turn up with 200km + vessels, that i cannot possibly destroy with my 5km grand battlecruiser.. hmmm....

I find FT very difficult to get into, without using one of the Generic Techs
I agree. the main arniment of my forces are nukes, classic old style nukes in play with ym idea of being a new space nation. (massive ships, old style fighters, weak lasers, no hyperspeed, colonial activty...) Appartntly arming my ships with CPU guided nukes is cheating. My ships (Fighrters are armed with two homing nukes and weak lasers. They have limited sheilds, but the nukes make up for that. Then I pointed out that SW sheilds don't black solids they got kinda annoyed and said a I cheated!

...

I think you misread the point. It wasn't that you specifically used weapons which no one could defend against, or that no one would bother to try making a defence. It was that it kinda ruins the expierence. I was suggesting that, maybe, everyone could say that all shields could defend against all weapons. It would level the playing field like nothing else, don't you agree?

Shields are efective at stopping Yamatos, the way it works is that the combined power and EMP of a single shot is great enough to drop an ISDs shields. But no one ever tried simply making more powerful shields, except for one memorable incident where someone godmodded them into existence. Anyway... All shields SHOULKD defend against all weapons, but some have built in weaknesses, like the SW issue with solid shells, or the Trek issue with phased energy weapons(assuming the phase matches the shields frequency). Gravity Wedges(my preference) are wide open at either end, and have issues with attacks from the broadsides. Point is, every shield has a weakness, you just have to find it, or know it, and act on it.

I know that SW ships are gonna take every contact nuke I can throw at them, and then some. Other than that, we'll see how things go.

Shields are efective at stopping Yamatos, the way it works is that the combined power and EMP of a single shot is great enough to drop an ISDs shields. But no one ever tried simply making more powerful shields, except for one memorable incident where someone godmodded them into existence. Anyway... All shields SHOULKD defend against all weapons, but some have built in weaknesses, like the SW issue with solid shells, or the Trek issue with phased energy weapons(assuming the phase matches the shields frequency). Gravity Wedges(my preference) are wide open at either end, and have issues with attacks from the broadsides. Point is, every shield has a weakness, you just have to find it, or know it, and act on it.

I know that SW ships are gonna take every contact nuke I can throw at them, and then some. Other than that, we'll see how things go.

I suppose you know this from experience, because we so often have wars in space, hurling lasars and nukes everywhere and crafty shields.

Oh wait we arent that good at space battles in RL, are we?

I suppose you know this from experience, because we so often have wars in space, hurling lasars and nukes everywhere and crafty shields.

Oh wait we arent that good at space battles in RL, are we?

You aren't good at crontributing much to conversations either. There's enough canon evicdence that I know what I'm talking about.

People love to rant, and as one of the people who have what could be termed 'expierence' in the world of NS, I think I'm am able to do one of my own. Where to start? OH YES!

You spelt experience wrong, turning a new look on irony.

You spelt experience wrong, turning a new look on irony.
It's great when stuff like that happens, no?

Sorry mini, just me being unhelpful.

It's great when stuff like that happens, no?

Truly is, and duly so.

I agree with Snake Eaters... and also give thanks to the fact that I use a custom tech.

People that claim they control entire galaxies never cease to irk me. People that defend their claim that they control entire galaxies under some guise of 'you would too!' sentiment irk me more.

Although I will admit I fall under the category of people with 30km uberships, but I only have three... and its mostly gizmos... however, even I have limits COUGH Ultra-Star Destroyer COUGH HACK WHEEZE...

I must admit that seeing the nations whose core of their space forces is 20-30km ships is a little frightening. I'm alright if you've only got one or a few of those ships (My flagship's 22.7km) but when that's your entire Space navy, that's not exactly right.

Hold on there boyo, I never said there was no defence to my warp cannons. Canonically, I've read they ignore shields, but I always adapt that for RPs and have shields frequently resist. You want a note of how often I compromise, ask Godular. My weapons are far from unstoppable, and it's obvious that if people enjoy making rants, its nearly second to making bullshit claims they can't back up, or making annoying blanket statements. Next time you even want to invoke an argument against me, and put my name beside any deplorable generalisation, you come and ask me first.

It's the only way I can make any compensation for my small size

At last, somebody admits it!

Thats why I use Homeworld tech. I got one type of shield that only blocks projectiles, a maximum ship length of 10 KM (I only have 1 of these.) a couple of 7 KM ships and the rest are no more than 2 KM long. And the shields I use have to be mounted on an entire ship with only a light cannon.

I use my own hybrid shields for FT. They are basically unstoppable until you figure out their one weakness, mass. For FT nations the task is surprisingly simple when you do it. All you need to do is hurl an object with greater mass then the shield can asborb (or collectively more in the same spot) then the 'uber-shield' is absolutely useless. Since the shield is so weak against high-velocity, ultra-dense mass the ship itself is built to take a strong hit, but not even reenforced adaman plates do it....only on my capital ships or higher can they withstand a few holes caused by them.

*My shields function with a Sea of Dirac, the better versions have their own energy shields to them. Think a black hole without the suction or time alterations.
**When an object passes through the shield it creates a bubble in the Sea of Dirac and can be avoided, or if the Sea of Dirac can't absorb more it passes through to.
*** Adaman is unbreakable. Doesn't mean a high velocity shell impact won't burn through it with friction and heat and slam the round through the ship anyways.

I don't really know what my tech's gonna be; right now we have bastardized Miehm tech, and an unspecified, but totally awesome Flagship; Icecrown, which I see as being somewhere between a massive Battlecarrier, a Necropolis/Black Citadel and the Icecrown Glacier itself :D

Gonna be awesome; though right now I'm more focussed on ground troops; Undead warriors, Soldiers, Ghouls, Necromancers, modified and bastardized races that we conquer; Abominations, all that good stuff and MORE!

I am cautious, and you could say dissapproving of people like Asbena, who throw around words like 'unstoppable' and 'unbreakable' so callously

Oh, and on pop I've expanded mine from 6 billion to 10 billion, just to take in i control a Solar System+ a few colonial worlds. It's reasonable thinking I have what, 12 planets under my control. and my etch isn;t great. my ships are MASSIVE though.

I don't really know what my tech's gonna be; right now we have bastardized Miehm tech, and an unspecified, but totally awesome Flagship; Icecrown, which I see as being somewhere between a massive Battlecarrier, a Necropolis/Black Citadel and the Icecrown Glacier itself :D

Gonna be awesome; though right now I'm more focussed on ground troops; Undead warriors, Soldiers, Ghouls, Necromancers, modified and bastardized races that we conquer; Abominations, all that good stuff and MORE!

I am cautious, and you could say dissapproving of people like Asbena, who throw around words like 'unstoppable' and 'unbreakable' so callously

Proproganda....the conventional methods of FTL are impossible. Is that not what we believe in the world today? How about diamonds are the hardest thing in existance.....doesn't mean they don't melt or fracture nicely....

Being the creator of my own ship...naturally I'll brag about the benefits of the system. Though its one fatal flaw is the shield itself. ^-^;

For some reason, Asbena's comments make me want to hug my Fractal Renders and Tachyon Torpedos...

Aust: But do you still use your NS pop to determine military strength? That's the key thing here. People who bloat their populations and then try to use it to get away with crap.

Weird...I have that affect on Godular. ^-^;

Bloating a national population is a little cheap, I'll hand you that. Since no definitive version of what a FT nation needs to be, we have these discreptancies.

Just enjoy your uniqueness...but don't wank yourself out of a good RP. Even though you CAN have maybe 100x population, don't send endless amounts of ships at the enemy. No nation should fully recognize each others true power or need a total war to realize the costs of a battle.

FT has been a crappy way to avoid diplomacy and regime problems by disregarding it as not being an issue. Don't do that! A perfect empire does NOT exist. You always lose something to gain something.

The most annoying thing, in my opinion, is when people in FT ignore the extent of a normally devastating attack on basis of size*numbers.

As I recall, in NS War 1 bringing down an entire city block down on Cassiopeia's droid army (demo charges) yielded almost no damage. Same with using an entrenched position - machinegun-type weaponry, rockets, etc.


Asbena - that's probably the trouble. If your shields are weak to one thing there's not much people can do to overcome that by watching what's happening - and they call godmod. On the other hand, if you made your shields immune to maybe two or three things, and resistant to others, it may be seen as more fair.

Hold on there boyo, I never said there was no defence to my warp cannons. Canonically, I've read they ignore shields, but I always adapt that for RPs and have shields frequently resist. You want a note of how often I compromise, ask Godular. My weapons are far from unstoppable, and it's obvious that if people enjoy making rants, its nearly second to making bullshit claims they can't back up, or making annoying blanket statements. Next time you even want to invoke an argument against me, and put my name beside any deplorable generalisation, you come and ask me first.

Oh calm down. Would an apology help? If so, then I'm sorry.

However, you can't really call my comments bullshit. They do have a valid point, although attaching your name was an oversight on my part.

Oh, and on pop I've expanded mine from 6 billion to 10 billion, just to take in i control a Solar System+ a few colonial worlds. It's reasonable thinking I have what, 12 planets under my control. and my etch isn;t great. my ships are MASSIVE though.

...

I RP with a total control area of about... oh, six or so plantery systems, with my normal population. Thinking about it, it's not impossible.

I know what you mean about the army and stuff. Velocity is a bitch, and combined with weight (not always mass) you can rip anything apart easily. Those Jedi that destroy droids with force push are either extremely powerful or the driods are very weak...and I think its both.

My shields on fighters and crap are immune to laser fire, but still they get swapped down like flies when you put other fighters on them. Though it does offer a little protection again shrapnel. On capital ships or larger they are godlike, immune to laser fire for the most part, but against a heavy missile it will slam through the shields and down the ships in what... four hits? Against many many units they are incredibly powerful unless its concentrated. Or an Artemis cannon (Like the Yamato cannon, but a hard shell missile that is like an AP bullet being shot through jello...)

Though what...capital ships have a density of 1 or 2 ton shielding and a distance of shielding of 200 meters? Anything that has a mass of over 20 tons per square meter will smash through the shield.

Meaning...suicidal fighters = jokes. BUT heavy missiles and compact rounds = godlike. That's the fatal flaw. Star Wars shields don't block mass....mine do, but they have their limits on the shielding.

For some reason, Asbena's comments make me want to hug my Fractal Renders and Tachyon Torpedos...

Aust: But do you still use your NS pop to determine military strength? That's the key thing here. People who bloat their populations and then try to use it to get away with crap.
No and yes. I use my etch level to determine it. My ships are large'coloney ships' sent out in massive convoys to seek out new lands and colonise them. One of these big ships is quite strong, but is very low tech. (Nuclear missiles, no lasers, weak shealed). My millitary is not very strong but it's quite large becuase (technically) every single Austian colonist is a soildier. that makes the millitary 60% of my pop.

For some reason, Asbena's comments make me want to hug my Fractal Renders and Tachyon Torpedos...

Aust: But do you still use your NS pop to determine military strength? That's the key thing here. People who bloat their populations and then try to use it to get away with crap.
No and yes. I use my etch level to determine it. My ships are large'coloney ships' sent out in massive convoys to seek out new lands and colonise them. One of these big ships is quite strong, but is very low tech. (Nuclear missiles, no lasers, weak shealed). My millitary is not very strong but it's quite large becuase (technically) every single Austian colonist is a soildier. that makes the millitary 60% of my pop.

...

I RP with a total control area of about... oh, six or so plantery systems, with my normal population. Thinking about it, it's not impossible.
The way I work it is that Aust (earth) has a population of 5 billion-roughly what it is now.

Then you have another 500,000 throughout this solar system.

I then have Ti-Ios, another system with 3 habitable planets which I concored and absorbed there native people, this brings my pop up to 10 billion.

...Meaning...suicidal fighters = jokes. BUT heavy missiles and compact rounds = godlike. That's the fatal flaw. Star Wars shields don't block mass....mine do, but they have their limits on the shielding.
Actually, SW shields do block mass...that's what a particle shield is, in comparison to Ray Shields. Ray shields block energy, particle shields block mass.

Actually, SW shields do block mass...that's what a particle shield is, in comparison to Ray Shields. Ray shields block energy, particle shields block mass.

Not really... If people can walk through them, or Fighters can fly through them, ten they must not stop solid weapons or objects.

What happens there is the shield control is linked to hanger control. When a shuttle is launched, shield computers drop the shield around the hanger for a split second, allowing the craft to leave without being vaporized. The hole is than closed back up again to reduce most chances of weakness.

-paraphrased from the New Essential Guide to Weapons and Technology

What happens there is the shield control is linked to hanger control. When a shuttle is launched, shield computers drop the shield around the hanger for a split second, allowing the craft to leave without being vaporized. The hole is than closed back up again to reduce most chances of weakness.

-paraphrased from the New Essential Guide to Weapons and Technology

And the incident on Hoth? Explain the ATs and Troopers being able to assault the generator, or even getting through the shield at all.

Thats why I use Homeworld tech. I got one type of shield that only blocks projectiles, a maximum ship length of 10 KM (I only have 1 of these.) a couple of 7 KM ships and the rest are no more than 2 KM long. And the shields I use have to be mounted on an entire ship with only a light cannon.
You win.
Twice.
Once for using Homeworld tech (Homeworld tech users unite! (Seariously, we should rp together sometime))
And twice for having no ship larger than 10 km (I have no combat ship larger than 5 km, with the motherships being very large, but almost never used)

I generally don't really care much about stats. If the enemy fires a full fleet salvo at one ship, I don't rush off to check whether so and so can breach my shields. I lose the ship.

No, what really erks me about FT is tech combination. SW versus ST? Fine. SW and ST versus other SW and ST? Still fine. SW/ST amalgamated nation? Umpleasant. Sw/ST amalgamated ship? Get it away from me!

That, and noobs who want shiny stuff gravitate to FT, so in general, I've been trying to give more time to PMT and MT play.

Although I am an FT race, I actually focus more on my race than anything else. My race is my own invention and is well detailed through an ESUS Wiki factbook as well as numerous RP's adding some interesting tidbits on Sskiss life some of which are rather humorous. Why do I focus more on my race? Because I simply love biology and especially evolutionary biology, that's why. My tech is mostly my own invention along with a smattering of Larry Niven thrown in. The rest of my tech is what I often call "sci-fi staples" -- plasma, partical, and matter disruptor based weapnary for example.

Largest ship -- a mere 4km and there are only three of them. However, sinse our race evolved from pack hunters, we possess craploads of potent smaller craft and our battle tactics mimics our evolutionary heritage. We possess no planetary shields, FTLi based techs, teleporters/transmat beams etc, no psionics/phykers and so on. Our FTL drives are relatively slow. We're pretty hard sci-fi for the most part. Our shields are electro-magnetic based -- very scientific and theory sound. Nothing too fancy, as I try and keep things within reasonable limits.

Furthermore, as a result of the often overblown fleets (innumber and ships size, often both at once!), ubertechs etc, etc, I've for the longest time tend to RP with people I know who are (at least) reasonable good RP'ers and just as importantly, know my race as well.

Alright, my next point. Those who choose to ignore their nations populations, or build uber ships... to me, it defeats the point of actually having an NS page, which tells you how many people you have. Pages like NSeconomy are a godsend to me. It tells me, in definate terms, how much I have to spend on my military and other things like that. Alright, I put my hands up and admit to ignoring certain things that NS tells me, because the system on NS, as good as it is, is vastly over exaggerated.

I think capping your population below it's NS level is perfectly legitimate. It would be impossible to play a small island (or even a continent) if you're an established player who has several billion people. My current population level on game play is over 6 billion but i've capped my RP population to 45,800,000 or so. Although i do take advantage of my large ecnomy by transferring the potential labour production i'm ignoring into capital production (eg instead of RPing that i have 5 billion workers i will [to an extent] maintain that i have a steller ecnomy becuase my industry is as effecient as the labour would be beyond my cap.) Of course it's all a matter of being reasonable and playing fair.

Oh and maybe i should mention that i'm a non-human nation?

Snake Eaters would be referring to INFLATING your population, which is a definite sign that some guy named Guido should come to your house and do some "persuading." There's absolutely no problem with deflating it, in fact, I tend to admire people who do, as they intentionally give themselves a rather blatant soft-spot.

Though what...capital ships have a density of 1 or 2 ton shielding and a distance of shielding of 200 meters? Anything that has a mass of over 20 tons per square meter will smash through the shield.

Meaning...suicidal fighters = jokes. BUT heavy missiles and compact rounds = godlike. That's the fatal flaw. Star Wars shields don't block mass....mine do, but they have their limits on the shielding.
Question: What would happen if one slammed a singularity into the shields? I assume they'd fail, correct?

This is why I play [P]MT. :p

Our Tech is my own creation and I try to keep it as feasable as posable even if it does ignore some real world physics, its FT real world physics no longer apply, HARD fi fanatics are kind of annoying I don't play to win or to have something uberly powerful I love a good story. as Nova said; "I don't go look up the stats, if an entire fleet just bombared a ship, I lose the ship" likewise if I've just pounded the hell out of a enemy I expect the same.

as for ships, currently our largest ship is a Revenant class which is 2900meters long and is our bigest capital ship class; our main ship is only 500metesrs long and we have many many of those.