NationStates Jolt Archive

Welcome. This is where we will discuss our preparation and launch of our hopefully international station. If anyone has ideas, i will listen. I will also post assignments for each nation.

Space Partnership

Australia
Spain
Poland
Italy

if you wish to join please state your nation and make a formal request, thankyou

http://www.warsawvoice.pl/view/3576/

ic: The Kingdom of Denmark would like to point out that joining the ESA would make much more sense for Poland than starting up its own program.

ooc:I am going to have to question Poland's ability to have a national space program. It doesn't make economic sense.

ESA's budget, 2004: 2,7 billion euro

PLN to Euro, now: 1 pln = 0,25something euro

Polish revenue, 2004 estimate: 154 (or so) billion PLN

Polish expenditure, 2004 estimate: 188 (or so) billion PLN

The ESA already works quite slowly, but has established launch sites and so on, which Poland needs to either update or build. So assuming that Poland needs to have the same budget to be of any value (considering they want a national space program), it's probably going to take up more than 5% of their revenues.

And Poland needs a news/diplomacy thread.

Besides that: people have complained about Australia, lots, in case you haven't noticed.

OOC: Stop bashing. Also he does have a point about the R&D thread...though this can be international...so just reference and you should be fine.

SIC:

"Australia wishes to begin its own space program in Australia. Perhaps both nations could work together. If Poland is looking for a partner, it is possible that we will be able to help." ~Alexander Andersong, Prime Minister's Aide.

Spain retracts its offer of aid should Australia be included in the space program. We have no interest to see Australia gain capabilities outside our atmosphere.

[OOC: Entrance into a highly controversial space program is hardly SIC.]

ooc: am I bashing? I am pointing out valid information - proceeding with this program will quite possibly bankrupt Poland. It could be international, but why would the US, Russia, Austria, Belgium, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Ireland, Italy, Luxembourg, the Netherlands, Norway, Portugal, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, and the United Kingdom join when they already have space agencies or programs that they are funding? It would make far more sense for Poland to join the ESA (European Space Agency) as they are part of Europe and have space ambitions, but probably do not have enough resources to start up one by themselves. If they want international, why make a new agency that will be badly placed to launch?

Spain retracts its offer of aid should Australia be included in the space program. We have no interest to see Australia gain capabilities outside our atmosphere.

[OOC: Entrance into a highly controversial space program is hardly SIC.]

OOC: You have no IC knowledge of this, you can't say that ICly.

Spain retracts its offer of aid should Australia be included in the space program. We have no interest to see Australia gain capabilities outside our atmosphere.

[OOC: Entrance into a highly controversial space program is hardly SIC.]

ooc: I am going to have to side with Australia on this one. They are not actually in the program until Poland allows them to be. What Australia did was send a secret message to Poland and it is up to Poland whether to keep it secret or not. Sorry for an ooc post.

OOC: hey what can i say, Poland is amazing. lol. we have been working hard, and we have diverted some resources.

IC: why cant we all just get along? If the three of us work together, we could land on the moon. LAND ON THE MOON. Spain could give the scientists and technical equipment. Australlia could be our R&D base and lauching pad. We will give whatever we've been working on and we could bring in a few other partners.
Please, put your differencse aside. We could do very well together, Atleast try it.

The Kingdom of Denmark would like to remind Spain that it is not allowed to undertake space programs without inviting the ESA:
The financial contribution of each member is determined by the projects it wishes to support, and no member may undertake a project without inviting ESA's participation.
But considering that Spain has already expressed its unwillingness to participate in any projects with Australia (this is IC now, Poland made it so and besides, it's quite obvious), it does not seem to be necessary.

Still, Denmark again extends a wish for Poland to join an already established space agency rather than make a new and expensive one.

OOC: Groan....you are doing it now to. Spain's comment is not valid. Can you also please use a formal tone for IC posts, they should sound different and not have 'I, me, you' in them unless it is between people. Mind redoing it?

does dennmark want to join or not.

No, Denmark already spends enough money on the ESA. It is absolutely pointless for Denmark to join a program that will inevitably go bankrupt due to the state of the Polish economy.

It would make sense for Poland to join the ESA, which would give them a major boost in space technology (Ion thrusters are already in full development) and also allows them to avoid construction times.

Finally, it would give Poland more control over how much to spend on its space programs.

The Kingdom of Denmark would like to remind Spain that it is not allowed to undertake space programs without inviting the ESA:

But considering that Spain has already expressed its unwillingness to participate in this project with Australia (this is IC now, Poland made it so), it does not seem to be necessary.

Still, Denmark again extends a wish for Poland to join an already established space agency rather than make a new and expensive one.

Can you both stop this? Its how things get mixed up and screwed up very easily.
Spain had no knowledge ICly and cannot do any action ICly about it, though he could say OOCly that Spain would be against it (obviously). Poland can't go an turn an invalid post and call it ICly unless he specifically releases the SIC to the world (not good for building trust).

Take a step back.

Poland and Australia are communicating SICly.
Spain has no knowledge
ESA (which Spain is apart of and Poland is not, hence Spain doesn't need to be for or against helping anyways.)

No, Denmark already spends enough money on the ESA. It is absolutely pointless for Denmark to join a program that will inevitably go bankrupt due to the state of the Polish economy.

It would make sense for Poland to join the ESA, which would give them a major boost in space technology (Ion thrusters are already in full development) and also allows them to avoid construction times.

Finally, it would give Poland more control over how much to spend on its space programs.

OOC: He is quite right, Australia would be like the 85% donor of money and would put more power on Australia as their space program more then Poland's. Though going to the moon is a dangerous project indeed. Considering with the UN resolution passed recently.

OOC: Asbena. Spain had no right to the IC communication. Poland had every right to the IC communication. Unless Poland writes SIC, then Australia is communicating to Poland SICly but Poland is communicating to Australia ICly.

Finally, who is quite right?

Landing on the moon is actually not that impressive anymore.

Secret:
To Australian MOD
From: PM of Poland

Dear CaC of the Austrailian military. We would like to invite you and some of your government to warsaw to view what we have done and possibly enter into a pact. We hope you will join us if we work with spain.

OOC: Asbena. Spain had no right to the IC communication. Poland had every right to the IC communication. Unless Poland writes SIC, then Australia is communicating to Poland SICly but Poland is communicating to Australia ICly.

Finally, who is quite right?

Landing on the moon is actually not that impressive anymore.

Spain made an improper IC post, Poland used that IC post which was basically OOC knowledge and cannot use it. He knew something that he possibly couldn't have and said that our three nations work together, when Spain has no knowledge of it and no way to know. Just ask Sel if you care that much.

SIC:

"I will attend on behalf of Aramaki, just say when you want the meeting to occur." ~Alexander Andersong

Secret Message:
To: PM of Spain
From: PM of Poland

Dear Prime Minister, We hope you will join us in our space program. We are in negotiations with Australia. There maybe problems between your 2 nations, but in this pact, you may be able to settle your differences. Please come to Warsaw to view our progress.

OOC: could both of you please reply in that same form.

OOC: You sent it only to Spain....not to me, I can't RP it.

Welcome. This is where we will discuss our preparation and launch of our hopefully international station. If anyone has ideas, i will listen. I will also post assignments for each nation.

Space Partnership

Australia
Spain
Poland

if you wish to join please state your nation and make a formal request, thankyou

[ooc: what happened to Poland's cooperation in the ESA? And what about the International Space Station? geez, these threads get better every time I get back...]

[ooc: what happened to Poland's cooperation in the ESA? And what about the International Space Station? geez, these threads get better every time I get back...]

(OOC: That's EXACTLY what I was thinking. Honestly, do people even try to RP their nation's realistically? Anyone?)

OOC - Poland doesn't even really have the technical know-how to go into space; a few years of research can't really make up for it. Look at how long it took China, which has built its own ICBMs, to get into space.

OOC - Poland doesn't even really have the technical know-how to go into space; a few years of research can't really make up for it. Look at how long it took China, which has built its own ICBMs, to get into space.

(OOC: Exactly. Poland, please, be reasonable. 5 Years just doesn't do it. Even with international assistance, there would still be at least 30-50 years of research, planning, building of infrastructure, design and testing of a manned space craft, then work on progressively larger crewed vessels, then planning of first EVA, then design of a space station, etc...

Look, China had help too, and just look how long it's taken them to even get their first manned space craft flying.)

OOC - Poland doesn't even really have the technical know-how to go into space; a few years of research can't really make up for it. Look at how long it took China, which has built its own ICBMs, to get into space.

[ooc: that's not their only problem...

once the research is done, they need to have facitilities to build for the mission control, spacecraft hangars, research and development, launch sites [VERY IMPORTANT], and even the resources to send a rocket into space [fuel and such...].]

OOCwhy must you complain? if Australia can invade countries , then i can work on space program. If no one else works with me i will stop, but if Australia and Spain want to work with me, then i dont see your problem. We have our secrets, you have ours.

Australia, look at the top of the 2nd page, i sent you a letter 2.

OOCwhy must you complain? if Australia can invade countries , then i can work on space program. If no one else works with me i will stop, but if Australia and Spain want to work with me, then i dont see your problem. We have our secrets, you have ours.

Australia, look at the top of the 2nd page, i sent you a letter 2.

ic:

The Kingdom of Denmark is very interested in knowing where Poland will situate its launch sites if it desires to continue through with its ludicrous project.

ooc: we complain just like we complained about Australia invading Somalia and thinking that Somalia likes that. We're complaining that Italy thinks that Tunisia will voluntarily submit themselves to Italy. And so, we also complain that this simply isn't possible for Poland. We do so not just OOCly, but also ICly, in case you haven't noticed.

And you still haven't addressed the fact that such a space program would take up a massive amount of your budget.

btw - just curious, I was wondering if I could get a link to your n/d thread. It would make more sense to communicate to you directly there (ICly) rather than clutter up this thread.

OOC: if you arent going to join the organization please stop posting here.

IC: as i have stated in other places the republic has been working on this for more than 5 years. The truth is.... well we arent ready to divulge all our secrets. Lets just say we have been saving up. that is all, if you are interested in joining my endeavour please post.

Are Spain and Austrailia still interested?

my n/w link is:
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=10594288#post10594288

OOC: if you arent going to join the organization please stop posting here.

IC: as i have stated in other places the republic has been working on this for more than 5 years. The truth is.... well we arent ready to divulge all our secrets. Lets just say we have been saving up. that is all, if you are interested in joining my endeavour please post.

Are Spain and Austrailia still interested?

ooc: I need an n/d thread then. Could you please link me to the polish n/d thread? (edit: ty :) )

its above you

OOC: if you are going to complain make your own forum, this is for interested people who wish to work with us. We have our national secrets you have yours.

IC: NON SECRET MESSAGE:
To: Prime Ministers of Australia and Spain and Italy
The Republic of Poland extends an invitation to meet in Warsaw to discuss the future of space exploration for our countries. We wish for you to RSVP and we will then set a date. We hope you can attend even if you are uncomfortable surrounded by certain nations. We still hope you can make it. Again, please RSVP.

OOC: i plan for it to be this week or next weekend. If you get back soon, maybe earlier.

OOCwhy must you complain? if Australia can invade countries , then i can work on space program. If no one else works with me i will stop, but if Australia and Spain want to work with me, then i dont see your problem. We have our secrets, you have ours.

Australia, look at the top of the 2nd page, i sent you a letter 2.

[ooc: last post here...

willing to work and will work are two totally different things... countries can be willing to work on a project that will cure death, but there isn't that much of a chance that they will work...

that said, I'm not opposing it because it's completely unreal...you've just got a whole bunch of problems, among them being the fact that your member states are separated by many nations and thus a lack of a central command for this...easily resolved...now you've got to get on research, launch site, facilities, and the resources to make it work...

good luck nonetheless...keep it real...]

OOC: if you are going to complain make your own forum, this is for interested people who wish to work with us. We have our national secrets you have yours.

(OOC: Omfg, the whole point is that this "national secret" isn't possible.

You don't see me suddenly say the US can make it to Mars in a year simply because we've been at it secretly for 40 years... :headbang: We're trying to help you're IC game with OOC advice. Please just take it.)

IC:

The United States would like to assist Poland with its space program. We are certain that our unrivaled expertise in the field of manned space flight will prove invaluable to your efforts.

We also urge that you return to the ESA. You will find that increasing your participation in existing programs will help you achieve your goals far sooner, and cheaper than through a purely national program.


(OOC: Basically, I'm doing what I can IC'ly to help you reach your unrealistic goals. Please make good on the last part. You pull out of the ESA now, and you definitely won't make your deadlines.)

OOC: Poland thanks the United States for their offer. Maybe in time we will be able to work together, but as you continually state, we are nowhere close to completion. Maybe in a few years.

(OOC: You see, I'm trying to make it so you are closer to completion. FASTER. In all honesty, I'm only hopeful that I can help you meet your expected goals. Keep in mind however, the US intends to be on the Moon again within the next 10 years. To make things realistic, please don't expect to be on the moon before 2025.

EDIT: I win? oookkay... I hope I didn't hurt any feelings?)

OOC: fine, you people win happy.

IC: The Republic of Poland will continue working on its space program and in 2012 we will give a report infront of the whole EU coucil. We still hope other nations will join us to discuss their own space programs, and maybe Poland will be able to help them. *glares and sighs* Poland will stay in the ESA.

The meeting in Warsaw is now open to all European nations to come and discuss what our plans to travel into space will be.

Please RSVP if you would like to come to Warsaw.

IC!

Despite the fact that the invitation to the Warsaw meeting is to European nations only, the United States respectfully requests that there be positions open to the US for observer status.

very well

IC: you are fully invited to participate in this meeting, though it may be just the two of us.

Also Australlia is also invited, as is Israel(if either see this)

OOC: We said we would come already >.> So yes.

the conference will start on friday(real time). That give all of us plenty of time and if anyone has school work then they wont have to worry about doing it during the week.

OOC: Huh!? Why not now...today on SATURDAY.

fine. though lets do it on sunday. when i wake up(im on USA east coast) i will make the forum link in this forum. and we can then start the conference when everyone signals that they are ready. Cant do it right now, hw and ****

fine. though lets do it on sunday. when i wake up(im on USA east coast) i will make the forum link in this forum. and we can then start the conference when everyone signals that they are ready. Cant do it right now, hw and ****
OOC: How about tomorrow?

that is tomarrow

Warsaw Space Conference Link

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=10599599#post10599599