NationStates Jolt Archive

The recent elections had brought an exciting race between the African National Congress and the Democratic Alliance party. However, the ANC had won and captured a majority. Thabo Mbeki easily won re-election with Tony Leon as vice president. At his inauguration,Thabo Mbeki said: Our country is undoubtedly one of the strongest nations in Africa. Our mineral wealth surpasses most nations, and the rand is a strong currency. However, we must look to the situation in Africa. We must help our friends in near countries with more than just aid. Thank you for your confidence in me to allow me to continue to rule this fine country

To: Thabo Mbeki
From: Prime Minister Aramaki

Mr. Mbeki, as a representive of Australia, I wish to congratulate you on your re-election. Upon hearing of the plan for the future, I wish to reveal a plan to you and only you.

Australia is currently conquering Africa on a mission to free them from the woes of anarachy and corruption, hunger, HIV and AIDS, poor drinking water, no education, no militiary, and corrupt leaders that thrive on the weak peasants.

Though South Africa is clearly different, we have no plans to conquer or fix our rights and beliefs on your people, but I would personally like to extend trading between our two nations to boost economic success. Also we will provide South Africa with some wonderful high-tech businesses and if you buy into our 'Garbage Deal' we will sell crude oil to you for cheaper then regular imports.

To: PM Aramaki,
From: Thabo Mbeki
South Africa is glad to have an ally in fighting the disease and poverty in Africa. South Africa is interested in increasing trade, as our two nations have common goals in Africa, and we would like to know more about your garbage deal

Russia asks that South Africa condemn Australia's forceful crusade against Africa's problems. We had several humanitarian programs in Somalia that were disrupted and we had to move many of the humanitarian troops into Ethiopia and Djibouti because of fear of conflict. We fear that there may be African retaliations against our peaceful non-combat troops in several "Horn" countries.

To: Thabo Mbeki
From: Prime Minister Aramaki

The deal is quite simple, allow Australia to build a plant on your ground or sell garbage to us, and we can turn oil out for you by the price of garbage you sell to us, as long as our plant can handle the amount.

Though since our unemployment is low, would you want to set up a work visa for some of your people, so that they can live and work in Australia and share citizen ship of both our nations under a work program to make sure both our people are taken care of.

Russia asks that South Africa condemn Australia's forceful crusade against Africa's problems. We had several humanitarian programs in Somalia that were disrupted and we had to move many of the humanitarian troops into Ethiopia and Djibouti because of fear of conflict. We fear that there may be African retaliations against our peaceful non-combat troops in several "Horn" countries.

OOC: You know I checked your list, Somalia wasn't on the list for aid, it was Ethiopia. That's why I said I'd avoid it for awhile till your programs ended if they failed.

To: Prime Minister Aramaki
From: Thabo Mbeki

We would be glad to sell our garbage to you in order to produce it into oil. We would also be glad to send some of our unemployed people over to work in Australia, and perhaps some of our scientists can work with yours to produce new technological advances.

To Russia: South Africa cannot condemn a nation that is helping needy African nations. Russia is welcom to help African nations as well, and South Africa would be glad to provide them with whatever help they need

To: Thabo Mbeki
From: Prime Minister Aramaki

Wonderful, we will enjoy this, it benefits both our nations. Australia is currently researching green power and alternative energy sources for the whole world.

OOC: You know I checked your list, Somalia wasn't on the list for aid, it was Ethiopia. That's why I said I'd avoid it for awhile till your programs ended if they failed.
OOC: It is on the list in the OOC thread. I's on the 14th page I think or its reply #314...one of those two.

To: Prime Minister Aramaki
From: Thabo Mbeki

We would be glad to sell our garbage to you in order to produce it into oil. We would also be glad to send some of our unemployed people over to work in Australia, and perhaps some of our scientists can work with yours to produce new technological advances.

To Russia: South Africa cannot condemn a nation that is helping needy African nations. Russia is welcom to help African nations as well, and South Africa would be glad to provide them with whatever help they need

[ooc: just an FYI, Australia is currently invading Somalia...while I respect your opinion, I believe that South Africa would be reluctant to give aid to such a country...

and Russia is right about giving aid to Somalia...]

[ooc: just an FYI, Australia is currently invading Somalia...while I respect your opinion, I believe that South Africa would be reluctant to give aid to such a country...

and Russia is right about giving aid to Somalia...]
Not anymore though. Our troops and a few thousand refugees fled to Ethiopia.

OOC: Post #313 I see it...

I'm not the kind of person that would invade an ally or anything over such a stupid reason. South Africa isn't 3rd world anyways...

oh. he invaded Somalia. I need to read some more info i guess. So is Australia invading a country or what?

Military Affairs

1 Mechanized Brigade
3 Motorized Brigades
9 Light Infantry Brigades
1 Paratrooper Brigade

Naval Force: 4 Frigates, 3 Submarines, 4 Missle Boats
Air Force:

Equipment: parenthese denotes number of them
Rooikat AC: (160)
Eland AC: (1,100)- this number may be a little big because it was being phased out
Ratel APC: (1,200)
G6 SPA: (20)
G5 artillery: (75)
G7 light artillery: (120)

Air Force: Transports: (300)
Helicopters: (100)
Fighters: (20)

Total Military Strength: 74,000
Reserves: 706,000
Police Force: 110,000

Economical Affairs

GDP: 527.4 billion dollars
Labor Force: 15.23 million employed
Unemployed: 25%
Population below povert line: 50%
Main exports: minerals


In an effort to curb the large number of unemployed, President Thabo Mbeki announced a massive work program that would put nearly 500,000 unemployed people to work making roads, factories, bridges, and other public works projects, although he acknowledged that the program would take some time before it was fully running. He also announced South Africa's intention to upgrade South Africa's military, as it was woefully under equipped.

OOC: Yes I am. Its conquered really....just upgrading the life-style and giving them a good life. It'll be a few years before I can move onto a larger nation.

IC:

From: Prime Minister Aramaki
To: Thabo Mbeki

As of South Africa's unemployment is high and so many live below the poverity line, Australia wishes to employ 250,000 South Africans in agricultural projects in Australia. While another 100,000 we are seeking to work in the Thermal Depolymerization Plants to bring the Australian green business up to full speed and help our Operation Humanity.

OOC: Yes I am. Its conquered really....just upgrading the life-style and giving them a good life. It'll be a few years before I can move onto a larger nation.

IC:

From: Prime Minister Aramaki
To: Thabo Mbeki

As of South Africa's unemployment is high and so many live below the poverity line, Australia wishes to employ 250,000 South Africans in agricultural projects in Australia. With another 100,000 we are seeking to work in the Thermal Depolymerization Plants to bring the Australian green business up to full speed and help our Operation Humanity.

To: Prime Minister Aramaki
From: President Thabo Mbeki

South Africa would be glad to send 350,000 workers over to work in Australia. This would greatly help solve our nation's economic problems. However, we must voice our concern over your nation's invasion of another African nation. We would ask that you instead work on stopping genocidal dictatorships or help on installing democracies through other ways, not invasion

OOC: sorry for double post, but it's very much different

President Mbeki calls for Southern African conference

President Thabo Mbeki today called for a meeting involving several nations in Southern Africa, as well as Russia and Australia to try to work together to achieve peace and economic prosperity in the area. participants that have been invited include:

South Africa
Russia
Australia
Mozambique
Lesotho
Swaziland
Madagascar
Namibia
Botswana
Zimbabwe
Zambia
Angola
Malawi

These nations are invited to join, and any naton not included may ask to enter. The conference will address:
1. Economic problems
2. Security Problems- specifically rebel groups and fighting between ethnic groups
3. Achieving peace and stable democratic government in Southern Africa, and eventually in all of Africa itself

OOC: You do know only the three of us (Russia, Australia and South Africa are Players here)? It's not exactly effective or possible to RP a summit with NPC nations on such a scale anyways.

IC:

From: Prime Minister Aramaki
To: Thabo Mbeki

We are unable to stop from helping the third world nations, they are better off in the end, but it is the most effective way to stop genocide and the spread of disease and problems in all of Africa. We extend the same help to you, but your nation is peaceful and is not breaking any known humanitarian law for us to take action on.

OOC: yea i know, but it seems kind of stupid to announce an African conference with only 3 members, and if anyone else joins, they can be a part of it. The conference will probably break down as many of the leaders are corrupt or dictators but it looks good.

IC
To: Prime Minister Aramaki
From: Thabo Mbeki

As long as your nation is not causing unnecessary killing of innocents, then South Africa has no objection to these moves.

To: Thabo Mbeki
From: Prime Minister Aramaki

We assure you, doubling the life expectancy and erradicating disease from countries unfit or unable to handle their own people, problems or even want to change that, let alone stop fighting themselves. We will fix the problems.

Southern African Conference Collapses

After several days of arguments and several nations actually leaving the conference for a large number of reasons, President Thabo Mbeki finally ended the conference in disgust, but rumors have begun spreading that he is toying with the possinility of establishing closer economic and military ties with
nations that were willing to work together; Namibia, Lesotho, Madagascar, Swaziland, Botswana, and Mozambique. Information is vague at this time but it is expected that the president will announce his plan soon, and the plan will bring the nation much closer together

President Mbeki announces new economic and military alliance with surrounding nations.

President Mbeki today announced a new Economic and Military Union with Namibia, Lesotho, Madagascar, Botswana, and Swaziland, with Mozambique having announced it would wait to see how succesful the Union was. The Union was to be called The Alliance of Southern African Nations (ASAN). The ASAN would exist to:
1. create a small joint military force to be available for conflict in any nation
2. To create a single currency at a later date
3. To attempt to solve tribal and ethnic disputes which are not limited to inside the ASAN's borders
4. To create a better economy for all member nations through open borders, lowered tariffs, and a group of financial heads to create new industries

President Mbeki announces new economic and military alliance with surrounding nations.

President Mbeki today announced a new Economic and Military Union with Namibia, Lesotho, Madagascar, Botswana, and Swaziland, with Mozambique having announced it would wait to see how succesful the Union was. The Union was to be called The Alliance of Southern African Nations (ASAN). The ASAN would exist to:
1. create a small joint military force to be available for conflict in any nation
2. To create a single currency at a later date
3. To attempt to solve tribal and ethnic disputes which are not limited to inside the ASAN's borders
4. To create a better economy for all member nations through open borders, lowered tariffs, and a group of financial heads to create new industries
OOCish: Nice plan...I can't say how realistic it is, but it seems fine for the most part. You might want to start with getting that Mugabe out of power...

yea, there are a few people that have to be "removed" so that the process can continue. i don't know if you want to put this on your map of blocs or not, but maybe this fits the criteria

Robert Mugabe killed by rebel

Robert Mugabe was killed today be an unknown freedom fighter, who shot Mugabe several times before being killed himself. There is no news about Mugabe's assasain, nor will there be, as a car bomb exploded 1 minute later, killing many of Zimbabwe's top officials. The country is in dissaray and several rebel groups have already risen up. The spokesperon for the ASAN said the killing was an act of desperation by a freedom fighter and promised support for the rebels.

In other news, the ASAN agreed to join their military forces together, with a single standardized set of military weapons. ARMSCOR in South Africa was named as the head of weapons manufacturing, and other grouos were to work together to standarize the weapons. Early reports indicate that:

The Rookiat and Ratel will be the standard AC and APC respectively
The Olifant will be worked on to try to put a 115 mm gun in the turret, which is the common tank gun.
The 1,500 older AC in the ASAN nations will be replaced with 1,500 Rookiats, and the 300 existing Rooikats will be upgraded to carry 105mm guns, and models better suited to carry a 105mm gun
The R4 assault rifle will be standard issue

The economic counsel came out of a sesion today with several agreements. First, a single currency had been agreed upon, but the name had yet to be decided upon. Bringing the new currency into effect in all nations would take 2 years at most. The economic counsel also proposed that the large amounts of unused land be turned into farm land with the new irrigation methods, or factories to turn out more and better manufactured goods. The plans would put at least 2 million people to work, with more being employed later on as the plan became more widespread

Russia wishes to know if the ASAN military requires any of our fine weapons, planes, etc.

OOC: Is ASAN one country now or an organization? I need to know for the map and if anyone want one of those countries.

OOC: The ASAN is still formally seperate countries, however, they are closy linked with unity coming later on in a few years. It's the equvalint of the EU is guess.

IC: The ASAN would be interested in purchasing 200 Su-35's, 150 S-300 PMU1 Air Defence launchers, and 50 Moskit-E launchers as well as all the necessary ammunition. The ASAN will pay a reasonable amount, whether in cash or in Minerals

*officials ponder whether ASAN can be trusted to pay for all of that...*

"We would prefer payment in the form of stock in your respective mineral industries as well as oil(if there is a significant amount)."

Upon agreement, the equipment will begin shipping and should complete within two years.

The ASAN will begin shipping minerals and oil immediatley. The ASAN thanks Russia for doing business with them
OOC: what happened to the SA-11 SAM stuff? has the name changed?

OOC: I have no idea. I don't even know what your asking for. I know Su is a plane, but you could put Xo-82 and I would say: "Sure, we'll ship them straight away!" I really should learn about Russian weapons. Also, I meant we get stock in the companies, not that you ship minerals. I mean we get investment for free in the industries. You could, however, supply us with uranium...

OOC: Su-35 is a fighter-bomber, S-300 is Surface to Air Missle, and Moskit are anti-shipping missles. I'll send you uranium or stick, whichever you prefer

OOC: Su-35 is a fighter-bomber, S-300 is Surface to Air Missle, and Moskit are anti-shipping missles. I'll send you uranium or stick, whichever you prefer
Some free uranium(we'll transport it) and maybe 5-10% stock in the URnaium industry...

OOC: Sel Appa, if you want a quick reference that will cover just about everything sold by Russia, check http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/russia/index.html
If you want more in-depth information (ie prices), I can dig that up as needed if you'd like. (for example, the S-300PMU1 goes for about $150 million for a battery of 12 launchers, the Su-35 for about $40 million,

Incidentally, this order is going to hurt the economy quite a bit end end SA's foreign procurement for awhile. The total deal there is worth at least $10 billion, which is nearly 5 times the combined defense spending of all the nations in there. I said that it's going to be a weak economy and military and I meant it.
Even accounting for the economic growth between now and 2009, it's unlikely that those combined nations will exceed $300 billion GDP (incidentally, over $250 billion of this will be South Africa). Combined military spending, at current figures, is $2.1678 billion. All but two of these nations are only in the tens of millions, and one in the two hundred million range. South Africa completely dominates, but still spends less than $1.7 billion right now.
Even if you tried to increase military capability, I don't see an annual budget of much more than $5 billion being workable, with only $2-2.5 billion (and shrinking as time goes on) available for procurement. That other extra money would be going to improving existing forces, as almost all outside of SA are in sorry shape.

I don't think the economy will be as badly hurt as you think, I'm not actually using the military budget, as neither Uranium or the stocks for it is part of the military budget. The military budget for ASAN nations will be used to standardize the weapons, and not much else. I figure that its better to get equipment now and then help the economy, which may be a bad decision, but several economic plans are underway, or will be starting soon. The rest of the nations have a very poor economy, but hopefully that can be changed eventually. By the way, do you happen to have a link to the South African forces? I can't find it.

IC: The ASAN finds those terms acceptable

OOC: Actually, you're wrong. The funds have to come from the budget (I seriously doubt you can get private funding for that), and are being used in military spending. That means, even if it's not officially stated, they're part of the military budget. And if they don't come from the regular military budget, they still have to come from somewhere, so that's $10 billion less for something else. Money doesn't just appear out of nowhere. That's the point. No matter what, that level of spending increase will hurt you, especially in such a short period. That's why you rarely see nations like this procuring advanced hardware in any significant numbers. They eventually do get them, but spread it out over a significant period with multiple contracts.

To be frank, you should presently focus all the money you can into projects to promote economic growth. You don't want to bother with acquiring expensive military hardware unless you need it. And since there's no one who's going to really bother you right now, you don't need all that much. Really, what nation involved in Africa is going to 1) attack you and 2) use modern aircraft? The answer is none, even in the 21C climate. The reason South Africa currently has minimal air defense is because they have no potential opponents that would warrant any. Their domination over their neighbors in that area is so great that it could be considered akin to the US in North America. The same is true for armor. The Olifant is a joke compared to most armies that have tanks (other than those stuck with the T-54/55 and T-62 anyway), but thre's no one likely to fight there with anything even approaching it. You already have what you need to dominate all your neighbors, why bother with any more? All you're really doing is setting your economic growth plans back a considerable amount of time, possibly years.
And don't forget: in addition to the procurement costs, you have to deal with training and operating and maintaining those units, which will probably cost hundreds of millions each year.


As for South African forces, they're a somewhat more difficult one to dig up. I have a few fragmented sources, but nothing complete. Given time, I might be able to compile something though. They were actually one of the projects for my economy & military thread, but I put them on hold because it was too difficult to get enough info. Still, I have a few new sources, so I'll see what I can do.

Alright I see your point. Sel Appa, I'm going to hold off on the military deal for now, and the new deal later on will be revised

different topic altogether
ASAN Presidential and parliamentarian elections
The ASAN nations yesterday voted on an ASAN president, who would serve for 2 years, and a 200 person parliament. The winners are:

Sam Nujoma: 51% and now president
Pakalitha Mosisili: 37%
Didier Ratsiraka: 12%

Parliament Seats

ANC: 130
Democratic Alliance: 37
UAS: 29
Other:4

The ASAN economic counsel also put forward the following proposals to help ASAN's economy:

1. A single currency within 2 years
2. Expand the mining industries in all nations
3. Privitization and liberalization of several industries
4. Large increase of agricultural farming through irrigation of unused lands and the increase of farm production in existing areas with modern farming equipment
5. Reduction of tariffs and trade barriers in ASAN nations

All proposals were met with general approval and are expected to be passed by the parliament

Update from Australia by Aramaki

The work visa program is working extremely well. The average GDP per capita for each South African worker is $27,000 per year. (Just $5,000 under the standard Australian worker) For helping Australia become an economic world power, Australia wishes to build a nuclear power plant in South Africa to allievate power concerns. The constrution is expected to cost a mere $1 billion and will be completed in just a year if no legal action is taken against Australia to slow the business. Just pick a place for it.

Also Australia's business boom is pushing for even more workers and some have asked to build franchises in South Africa, which you may already know about. Australia thanks you for allowing extra workers to spend time in Australia under the program.

South Africa will send as many people as Australia needs, and will gladly welcome any and all industries that wish to create businesses in South Africa. As for the nuclear power plant, South Africa will also be glad to build that here

OOC: South Africa used to have a nuclear power plant if that cuts cost or affects this in anyway

Russia will be able to build a plant for $1 billion which includes training of all necessary staff to the fullest possible extent. The plant itself would cost about $800-900 million.

Russia will be able to build a plant for $1 billion which includes training of all necessary staff to the fullest possible extent. The plant itself would cost about $800-900 million.

This is a gift to South Africa, its a going to be a small 700 Megawatt nuclear reactor. Giving South Africa something that few nations have....its a present for helping each other out. That's what allies do. The cutting of costs for a power plant will be the fact that your nation already has people who can power it, bringing higher-tech industry and nuclear-related technologies back online.

South Africa will accept Australia's deal, however, Russia may build a nuclear power plant as well if it wishes, South Africa thanks both nations for their willingness to help us.

Australia is more then pleased and will be using its newest diamond-chip technology in the reactors main-frame and control system, offering more data at faster speeds with higher resistance to the heat. Allowing for a superb data center and ultra-fast harddrive access.

out of curiosity, how many more workers will you need, and how many will be employed with Australian businesses coming here?

OOC: I have a question about that diamond chip thing. Is that something you made up or is it actually being researched in real life? Or is it theoretical? I doubt Australia would get something like that that easily. You have Israel, the US, Japan, South Korea, possibly India and China, and some European countries. Also how is Australia going to build a nuclear plant? Do they even have any of their own?

If Australia didn't have a reactor, South Africa has knowledge and plans for one since it had nuclear power and weapons at one time

Australia has nuclear reactors...and yes the chips are real, though it would be 2009 at the earliest before they should be produced.

OOC: Just for curiosity, do you know a site about those chips?

http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/11.09/diamond.html

http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/11.09/diamond.html

very cool.

very cool.

Our businesses will also produce the jewerly at a later date...if South Africa doesn't mind.

Our businesses will also produce the jewerly at a later date...if South Africa doesn't mind.

[ooc: hate to bust your bubble but producing diamonds under high pressure plasmic environments are not "genuine" diamonds. real diamonds are produced under different circumstances. but considering that they are nearly chemically alike, mass-producing diamonds will deflate the value of diamonds as they become more available, especially your artificial variety. and BTW, they produce them now - they've been producing diamonds for at least 10 years [i believe longer...] - they've used them in almost anything: diamond-grit saw blades, dentist drills, the coating of the window panes on most space-craft...]

South Africa will accept any bussinesses that wish to come to South Africa. In other news...
Several African nations to be given partial member status

Mozambique, Angola, Tanzania, Malawi, and Zamibia will be given partial member status, and their acceptance will be voted upon later in 2010, however polls reveal that acceptance is almost certain

[ooc: hate to bust your bubble but producing diamonds under high pressure plasmic environments are not "genuine" diamonds. real diamonds are produced under different circumstances. but considering that they are nearly chemically alike, mass-producing diamonds will deflate the value of diamonds as they become more available, especially your artificial variety. and BTW, they produce them now - they've been producing diamonds for at least 10 years [i believe longer...] - they've used them in almost anything: diamond-grit saw blades, dentist drills, the coating of the window panes on most space-craft...]

Correct, but these are black diamonds and possess a lot of carbon in them (hence the color) and are the waste products of machines for producing jet engines and the like. Though ours will be cheap and in all sense more perfect then a real diamond, it will be extremely hard to tell the difference.

Though the diamond waffers made into chips will be the real profit of the technology, now that it is in Australia.

South Africa will accept any bussinesses that wish to come to South Africa. In other news...
Several African nations to be given partial member status

Mozambique, Angola, Tanzania, Malawi, and Zamibia will be given partial member status, and their acceptance will be voted upon later in 2010, however polls reveal that acceptance is almost certain

in what?

OOC: I know about fake diamonds...I want to know about diamond computer chips...that is what you mean right?

OOC: I know about fake diamonds...I want to know about diamond computer chips...that is what you mean right?

[OOC: Diamons have always been used in the construction of computer hardware. If they think that diamond computers is anything revolutionary, it's not - what they may be referring to are carbon computers, which explains why they want this black diamond. What the carbon would be used for is to make nanotubules which conduct electricity, and given enough of these connecting different parts of the computer, a computer can compute things at higher velocities, and so is faster in general.]

[OOC: Diamons have always been used in the construction of computer hardware. If they think that diamond computers is anything revolutionary, it's not - what they may be referring to are carbon computers, which explains why they want this black diamond. What the carbon would be used for is to make nanotubules which conduct electricity, and given enough of these connecting different parts of the computer, a computer can compute things at higher velocities, and so is faster in general.]
OOC: Oh I see...I still doubt Austrailia's ability to have gotten it first. Doesn't matter much though.

OOC: Oh I see...I still doubt Austrailia's ability to have gotten it first. Doesn't matter much though.

He's wrong....that's not the same tech. The business uses making diamond wafers and cutting the chips out of them.

He's wrong....that's not the same tech. The business uses making diamond wafers and cutting the chips out of them.

[OOC: This has been done for a while now; I don't know why it would be such a large issue.]

in what?
The ASAN: Alliance of South African Nations, founded in 2009

New nations admitted into Alliance
Yesterday, the people in ASAN nations voted 63% in favor of allowing several new nations into the alliance. The nations include:
Mozambique
Angola
Tanzania
Malawi
Zamibia
More in depth information will follow concernong the total GDP and such. Another election is planned in 2011, which will increase the number of parliamentary seats to 500

OOC: Hanseatic, you should really slow down a bit here. I see what you're trying to do, and like it, but you wouldn't get this far along in less than half a year. In fact, you shouldn't even be half this far in a full year. Leagues like this require more than a few months to prove themselves to outsiders, and you're getting into things that you should be waiting at least a week for based on the time frame. If I was going at this rate, I'd have almost completed my plans by now, rather than barely gotten started.

If you need something to do between the big steps, focus on the little things. Talk about problems and successes with integrating the military. Talk about issues with equipment. Give it some flavor instead of just barreling down the path at a breakneck speed. Feel free to let yourself get side tracked a little bit.

It's really nothing more than a fancy name and a half integrated military. i've barely even started to try to fix the economies of the nations because many of them are screwed up, the monetary unit hasn't been fixed yet (partially casue I haven't really looked around), the military is weak (which is okay), and only partially joined together. I'll begin to start to work out language problems and that stuff eventually. It's a lot of bluster and talk, little action, but that will be fixed soon. I'll slow down, because of internal problems (lots of ethnic tencsions, rebel groups etc.) and then the alliance will start to actually become something.

[OOC: Diamons have always been used in the construction of computer hardware. If they think that diamond computers is anything revolutionary, it's not - what they may be referring to are carbon computers, which explains why they want this black diamond. What the carbon would be used for is to make nanotubules which conduct electricity, and given enough of these connecting different parts of the computer, a computer can compute things at higher velocities, and so is faster in general.]

[that stuff isn't made from diamonds...it's completely different...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allotropes_of_carbon]

New nations admitted into Alliance
Yesterday, the people in ASAN nations voted 63% in favor of allowing several new nations into the alliance. The nations include:
Mozambique
Angola
Tanzania
Malawi
Zamibia
More in depth information will follow concernong the total GDP and such. Another election is planned in 2011, which will increase the number of parliamentary seats to 500

I'd be concerned about endemic tribes, the one thing that got the post-colonial African countries on their edges. One of the major reasons for instability is because the countries that formed were not nationalistic, and they often included hundreds of tribes without any kind of real political entity in the government, leading to numerous factions vying for power in one state. Of course, South Africa hasn't seen that much of that stuff, but it's still a major source of dissent from many other African nations today, a persistent menace from the colonial period.

I'm surprised to find an election in which one country gets a 63% majority anyway to do something - most often, the way to do things is by military force [i.e. Rwanda, Angola, Uganda, Congo, Sudan, etc...]

[that stuff isn't made from diamonds...it's completely different...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allotropes_of_carbon]

The link doesn't work...

It's really nothing more than a fancy name and a half integrated military. i've barely even started to try to fix the economies of the nations because many of them are screwed up, the monetary unit hasn't been fixed yet (partially casue I haven't really looked around), the military is weak (which is okay), and only partially joined together. I'll begin to start to work out language problems and that stuff eventually. It's a lot of bluster and talk, little action, but that will be fixed soon. I'll slow down, because of internal problems (lots of ethnic tencsions, rebel groups etc.) and then the alliance will start to actually become something.
I'm afraid that's rather unrealistic. The problem I have is that you wouldn't get other nations joining until you solved those problems and showed that this could work. Nations don't just jump onto the bandwagon unless they see some benefit from it, especially in this region. You shouldn't have other nations beyond the first few looking to join until you've proven that it can work. You've simply gotten too many nations involved too quickly.

You have made no mention of lingering disputes among those nations, no sign of dealing with internal tribal conflicts, not dealt with the economic and political situations (save for one assassination). These are exactly what you need to do before expanding, and are not something you can wait until afterwards for. You can't possibly have gotten so many nations in the region together without having shown clear benefits. Most of them can barely hold themselves together to begin with. What you appear to be doing is completely ignoring the political situation there because it would hinder you too much.
I felt it was a major stretch just forming this to begin with, and you're expanding it when you should be spending at least a week, probably several, just getting the first batch worked on.

Now, you might manage to explain this away somehow, but even if you did, what you can't do is avoid several weeks of just getting this to the point that it's workable. At the rate you're doing things, you can't achieve that without years of hard work, and the expansion rate would hinder you far more than you seem to think. That's why you start small, get things going well, then expand, which is how it would go with the political climate anyway. I'll say again that this is wholly unrealistic and would not only not happen this way, but would significantly hinder your efforts. I said from the get-go that it would be a long and hard road to get a major power out of here, and I meant it. There are no shortcuts, and you need to remember that the rate this moves is only one year a week. It's clear that you're a bit impatient here, but you have to take this slowly to be realistic. RP dealing with the problems for several days, then expand. Then RP more problems, and expand again.



And Naktan, there has been ethnic tribal infighting in South Africa. These conflicts are what the white minority used to maintain control of the nation through most of the 20th century. They often weren't that violent, but the hatred was definately there, and they just couldn't work together for that very reason. If not for those, the regime would have easily been toppled.

The link doesn't work...

google "buckyball" you'll get there :)

google "buckyball" you'll get there :)

Nope....still wrong....it was in the original link I posted about how it will be used and is done....not buckyballs.

Secret IC to SA

Israel would like to know what SA's stance on the Middle East, terrorism, and Islam is.

Nope....still wrong....it was in the original link I posted about how it will be used and is done....not buckyballs.

you were talking about diamonds in that one...someone else was talking about carbon nanotubes...there's a biiiiig difference in the chemistry of the two...

you were talking about diamonds in that one...someone else was talking about carbon nanotubes...there's a biiiiig difference in the chemistry of the two...

Carbon nanotubes are not made with buckyballs. Buckyballs have 60 carbon atoms and are produced in a low oxygen combustion burn. They are spherical while carbon nanotubes are cylindrical.

-----------------------

Australia wishes to again expand its work visas to 2,000,000 people for a six month work visa with a possible 2.5 million in the following year. Australia is relying heavily on Somalia and South African, Bangladesh and Vietnam workers to boost their economic powerhouse.

[ooc: I know about the chemistry of buckyballs...the discovery of buckyballs lead to a vast diversification of stable carbon allotropes...they are cylinderical, but the basic bond structure is similar for most of these allotropes, as compared to diamond and graphite structures...btw nice work with the migrant workers :)]

To Israel: We condemn all forms of terrorism, and hope that peace and stability can be achieved for all people in the middle east


Military Fiasco prompts tribunal, more unrest
A military task force sent to quell a rebel group in Zambia, known for its internal problems after the death of their leader, was ambushed and took heavy casualties. The commanders vehicle was hit by an RPG and exploded. The task force, comprising of 4 seperate nations panicked, going in all different directions. The chaos presented easy targets for the rebels, and nearly 300 soldiers were killed or wounded in the fighting. Many of the rebels managed to escape. The damage shows the weakness in the attempt at forming multinational forces, and has prompted an ASAN lead commitee to investigate what should be done to solve the problem. However, the inability to stop the rebels has caused several small scale riots and even small fighting groups to begin to appear, and the situation can only get worse. Botswana, Madagascar, Mozambique and Zambia have called up reserve forces

[ooc: I know about the chemistry of buckyballs...the discovery of buckyballs lead to a vast diversification of stable carbon allotropes...they are cylinderical, but the basic bond structure is similar for most of these allotropes, as compared to diamond and graphite structures...btw nice work with the migrant workers :)]

Lol thanks, easiest thing I could do for more workers. Buckyballs are just that....spheres. A diamond's chemical structure is vastly different. Graphite is also LAYERED, that's why when you rub them (in pencils) it leaves it behind, but when you rub a diamond it doesn't leave diamond dust behind lol.

sorry to SA for cluttering your thread into a carbon allotrope discussion...

and that said, if this discussion absolutely need resolution, I would suggest opening another thread to discuss it...or moving the ooc thread... but my last attempt to clarify myself...when I said that they are cylinderical, I was referring to the nanotubes...when they first discovered the buckyball, there were only two allotropes [the said]; when they started doing experiments with buckyballs, they made a new class of allotropes, based on the buckyball bond configurations [hexagonal and pentagonal interlocking figures], among those being the nanotubes, which is essentially adding buckyballs end on end and extending the structure into a long tube [although essentially does not mean that that is how they form...I'd have to reread it before I could say any more...] If I am just completely screwing my point up, tell me and I'll get a new thread out to discuss it...

Sure Naktan...

Also. Haneastic is that IC post acceptable for new worker contract visas?

yes, the deal is acceptable

yes, the deal is acceptable

Remember in the next NS year the nuclear power plant will be completed also in South Africa. ^-^

excellent *gets quivers* we'll be sure to give it extra security (2 battalions)

Rebel groups grow bolder, heavy fighting occurs
Heavy fighting continued as more rebel groups came out of the woodwork to begin fighting government forces. Several of the new ASAN nations withdrew their members at the parliament after an explosion killed 2 guards. All ASAN nations called up their reserve units to quash riots and rebel groups. Although fighting was fierce, and nearly 2,500 people had been killed or wounded, generals were confident that their superior firepower would win the day

Fighting on the wane, government forces begin to come back

After several weeks of hevy fighting, the rebel forces and their attacks began to taper off, as government forces of all ASAN nations began to take back control. Officials estimated another week or so was all it would take before the rebels would be eliminated. However, the fighting has prompted cals for closer links and more ties within ASAn itself, and a conference of ASAN nations has been called

Australia wishes to send troops to aid in quelling the rebellion. As an ally of South Africa, Australia is willing to help protect its ideals. They only ask for the number and where to deploy.

South Africa thanks Australia for its concern but the fighting is ending. If you wish to send a battalion of soldiers to help protect the nuclear power plant that will be built, that would be acceptable

OOC: Are you going to carry on RPing Tunisia? I scrubbed the surrender message so we can carry on

South Africa thanks Australia for its concern but the fighting is ending. If you wish to send a battalion of soldiers to help protect the nuclear power plant that will be built, that would be acceptable

OOC: Correction is being built. Wait till 2011 and you will have it operational.

Australia has redirected a battalion of its best soldiers to South Africa to defend the nuclear power plant that is in the late stages of construction. The battalion is expected to arrive in just 10 days.

(OOC:That is lightning fast for our movements lol!)

South Africa will also send 3 battalions of our best soldiers to defend the reactor.

OOC: yea, I'll RP, I was just busy the past few days. let me just find the thread again

Since its been awhile that I have held Somalia, things will cool down just like they are in Iraq. Though I don't know if its a good idea to send them for long lol!

Public support for Australia fades

After more knowledge of Australia's involvement in Africa, coupled with reports of Australian naval forces engaging Spanish and Italin naval forces, public confidence has eroded to only 59%, down from 63% more than a year ago. However, Thabo Mbeki has laughed these matters off as only momentary:It's just because of what has happened within the past few weeks. We respect Australia as a friend and we will not betray that friendship

Public support for Australia fades

After more knowledge of Australia's involvement in Africa, coupled with reports of Australian naval forces engaging Spanish and Italin naval forces, public confidence has eroded to only 55%, down from 63% more than a year ago. However, Thabo Mbeki has laughed these matters off as only momentary, and has pledged that the nuclear power plant will be built, and cordial relations with Australia would continue


OOC: Umm...I don't think Italy is attacking...and Spanish haven't engaged our ships. Little early for an event that hasn't happened.

[OOC: Asbena, look at the Tunisian thread...your ships have been engaged.]

look at the Operation Africanus thread, Macabees posted his units opening fire. besides the "reports" don't have to be true, people just have to believe them

look at the Operation Africanus thread, Macabees posted his units opening fire. besides the "reports" don't have to be true, people just have to believe them


My ships can't be opened fire upon first that's invading and saying you get first strike when WE control that are and sea everything for miles around! Its godmodding otherwise. Need to do a seperate thread and preferably get this stupid situation sorted out cause no one is doing anything right. NOW USE THE PROPER THREADS.

My ships can't be opened fire upon first that's invading and saying you get first strike when WE control that are and sea everything for miles around! Its godmodding otherwise. Need to do a seperate thread and preferably get this stupid situation sorted out cause no one is doing anything right. NOW USE THE PROPER THREADS.

[OOC: You started the 'stupid situation', now live with it. Do you know the definition of invading? Do even have any idea of what you're talking about? Seriously guy, get a clue. You don't control that sea; your naval force that you sent into the Red Sea doesn't match mine. Somalia doesn't even touch the Red Sea. You are godmodding. Jesus Christ, this is so damn annoying.]

[OOC: You started the 'stupid situation', now live with it. Do you know the definition of invading? Do even have any idea of what you're talking about? Seriously guy, get a clue. You don't control that sea; your naval force that you sent into the Red Sea doesn't match mine. Somalia doesn't even touch the Red Sea. You are godmodding. Jesus Christ, this is so damn annoying.]

By my map....we are with Saudi Arabia getting oil up and down the red sea at a rate of 10 million barrels per day for imports. The Red Sea (according to my map) is still at the peak of the Somalia/Djibouti line, where we built our radar dishes.

By my map....we are with Saudi Arabia getting oil up and down the red sea at a rate of 10 million barrels per day for imports. The Red Sea (according to my map) is still at the peak of the Somalia/Djibouti line, where we built our radar dishes.

[OOC: I urge you research on what you say before you say it, because you're making no correct point, at all. You said you built Australian radar on the peak of Somalia, and they're those long range, over the horizon radars. You do understand that OTH-R has a mininum range, correct? Since you are putting radio frequencies in the air and reflecting them off the ionosphere - you are obviously not going to get feeds for a certain range, depending on the angle of reflection of the EM wave. In any case, I would have rather used satellites, but just because you have a fancy radar in the area doesn't mean you control the Red Sea. Control of the Red Sea would come through naval occupation, which you absolutely haven't done. The fact that Saudi Arabia puts ships in the Red Sea is irrelevent, so does Iran. Now respond to the goddamn post.]

Use this thread and stop spamming this one up:
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=10568248#post10568248

Stop ignoring ALL but this one.

There's nothing in that thread, currently, to respond to.

There's nothing in that thread, currently, to respond to.

STOP SPAMMING AND ADDRESS YOUR ISSUES THERE!

[OOC: I beg your pardon? I'm not spamming, I was respond to your out of character post. At the time of the link, there was nothing to respond to in that thread. So please, stop making false accusations and attempting to prove your point by attacking irrelevent arguments.]

[OOC: I beg your pardon? I'm not spamming, I was respond to your out of character post. At the time of the link, there was nothing to respond to in that thread. So please, stop making false accusations and attempting to prove your point by attacking irrelevent arguments.]

Stop it...take it to the thread no more here, I mean it. We'll never get this solved any other way.

(Taking back my thread)

New Currency named, other economic plans to begin

The new currency that will be adopted by all ASAN nations has been decided to be called the Kwanza, after Angola offered it as the currencies name. The ASAN parliament also propsed changing the name of ASAn to The Union of African States (UAS). The new currency is expected to begin circulation in 2013 or 2014, first be replacing all money in banks and stores with Kwanzas, and then spreading the money from there. It is unsure what the exchange rate for Euros or dollars will be, but officials are hopefull it will be good. The UAS Parlaiment also approved of a massive public works program that would put nearly 10 million workers to work building public works projects, working in new factories, irrigating or farming new land (It won't be 10 million immediatley, it will start slow and build up, eventually reaching 10 million)

The economic counsel also released the combined GDP and budgets of ann UAS nations

Combined GDP: 685,75 billion
Budget: 86,128,690,000
Average Growth ( i took all the UAS nations and averaged the growth together, which is odd and might not work, but if you have a better alternative, let me know): 4.2%

The military council also began discussing the possibility of having a rapid reaction force comprised of 15,000 soldiers from all nations, although the language barrier may prove to be a problem

OOC: What did you do?

added all UAS budget's and GDP's together. The growth, I added the growth's (South Africa grew 4.5%, Madagsacar grew 6.1%) and averaged them together, and I'm not sure if this is fair, or if it works

What is this UAS....its not listed anywhere.

The name changed from Alliance of South African Nations (ASAN) to Union of African States (UAS) since the group was growing out of what would normally be considered Southern Africa

The name changed from Alliance of South African Nations (ASAN) to Union of African States (UAS) since the group was growing out of what would normally be considered Southern Africa
What nations are in it?

South Africa, Lesotho, Swaziland, Madagascar, Namibia, Tanzania, Botswana, Zamibia, Malawi, Zimbabwe, Angola

added all UAS budget's and GDP's together. The growth, I added the growth's (South Africa grew 4.5%, Madagsacar grew 6.1%) and averaged them together, and I'm not sure if this is fair, or if it works
That's not an effective means, and it's likely to be quite different from that. What you do, though admittedly a bit time consuming and difficult, is figure out what their combined GDP would be in a year by combining the projected GDP of each nation. For example:
(South Africa now times 1.045) + (Madagascar now time 1.061) + etc
Then divide that GDP by their current combined GDP.
That would give the actual growth rate for the combined nations.

South Africa, Lesotho, Swaziland, Madagascar, Namibia, Tanzania, Botswana, Zamibia, Malawi, Zimbabwe, Angola

Too many nations....sorry, doesn't fly with me! That's alot of Africa!

[ooc: What happened the African Union?]

If you mean ASAN the name was changed because it was growing out of the normal South African boundries

added all UAS budget's and GDP's together. The growth, I added the growth's (South Africa grew 4.5%, Madagsacar grew 6.1%) and averaged them together, and I'm not sure if this is fair, or if it works

[ooc: That is unreasonable, since the GDP is a algorithm of the economic productivity of that nation, the population, the number of people working, the trade investements, and all of that other junk...simply adding the numbers won't give you a reasonable number...]

If you mean ASAN the name was changed because it was growing out of the normal South African boundries

[ooc: In RL, there is the AU, which serves as a world conference for African nations [something like the EU, except that it doesn't work as effectively...]...and if you really think that you can get all of these nations to combine under one flag, most of those nations listed have problems trying to keep their own nation under one flag...and many of the nations don't even share the same language...
try your best though; I'd expect some internal resistance to the merging political identities by the people if not the governments...]

I'm going to change the GDP thing, it will take a few days though because of time restraints. As fof the AU, i know there's some form of that in Central Africa, but I didn't think it reached there. As for resistance, it's happened once and is likely to happen a few more times