Romania 21c Rp [Archive]

Cenanan

22-02-2006, 18:38

***************************************************
Romania and Bulgaria to ally in this time of unrest
Today, Prime Minister Popescu and President Purvanov of Bulgaria have signed into existence a full alliance between the two countries. Standing before an ecstatic crowd in front of the Palace of the People Prime Minister Popescu gave a rousing speech.
"Today, in this time of unrest thorough the world, President Purvanov and myself have entered a complete alliance of states. We hope that our show of unity will set an example for the world and allow tensions to calm."
President Bush upon hearing the news was reported to have said
"Romania... that’s where vampires come from, right? Unholy devils!"
We assume he was joking.

In other news, The lone tree in Alaska's Kotzebue Nation Forest appears to have gotten trunk rot. If the tree were to die it would sadly decrease the number of trees in the forest to 0.

This is Fox News (theme Music) Up next is Hannity and Colmes

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/IC PM
To: Russia
From: Romania
The Romania/Bulgarian alliance would like to invite our fine Russian friends to meet with the Prime Minister of Romania and President of Bulgaria. We would hope that this meeting would open the door for an exchange of Arms and possibly a strengthening of ties between our Nations

Naktan

22-02-2006, 18:46

France remains a staunch supporter of Romania's peaceful affairs in the Balkans and further hopes that they can provide a stabilizing effect in the region. We offer a toast to the success of Romania's

SECRET IC:

Our intelligencec reports suggest that the government of Albania may be involved in a plot to overthrow and connquer the Greek state. We request the support of Romanian and Bulgarian authorities in the monitoring of the situation. [For further details, review this thread (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=470050)...]

Our intelligence also reports that President Bush was "not joking" about vampires; your authorities should note the increased CIA presence in the Transylvanian and the Wallachian country, all armed with silver bullets and stakes.
[this message will self-destruct someday...]

Cenanan

22-02-2006, 20:06

Naktan

22-02-2006, 22:24

Secret IC
To: France
From: RBA
As a note of good news they will not find any "Vampires" in our territory, unless of course you are refering to our supply of S-75 M3s'
On this note we would like to inquire if you would be willing to sell us a supply of newer "vampires" as the ones we currently have are getting on in years.
We would of course be more then willing to negotiate especially if they included high speed delivery systems such as the Rafale.

Secret IC:

We simply said that the CIA was conducting the investigation; just like WMD, their basis for action is unfounded.

We will consider a proposal onn the lines as the Romanian government sees fit. Perhaps when we visit Bucharest or you visit Paris, we could discuss these things in detail...

Cenanan

22-02-2006, 23:21

Omorfia

23-02-2006, 03:29

Message from the Hellenic Republic

Republic of Greece would like to negotiate the possibility Balklands Alliance or Treaty for nations in our area (ooc: for now, just us). Greece would be willing to offer military protection to your country as long as Economic Support and other services.. However Romanian imports to Greece would still be taxed by the EU tarrifs, unless Romania is accepted into the EU.

My mistake your country joined the EU in 2007, seeing as it is now 2008 you can disregard what I have said about the EU.

Naktan

23-02-2006, 03:49

IC Message
From: RBA
To: France

As PM of Romania I would like to invite our fine country. Perhaps between discussions we could interest you in a tour of our Capitol.

Private Message
We hope that these discussions can lead to a beneficial arms deal between our countries.

Communique to Romanian government:
We accept the proposals, and President Jacques Chirac will be planning a tour of the Balkans region [Bucharest, Sofia, Istanbul, Athens, Tirana, Belgrad, and Sarajevo] to encourage the fellow nations to offer solutions to diffuse the tensions there.

PM: We have suitable arms deals to offer to the Hellenic Republic of Greece, including top of the line aircraft, naval vessels, and various infanry and armored vehicles.

Sel Appa

23-02-2006, 03:49

OOC: Romania is in the EU. Are Romania and Bulgaria now one country?

IC: Russia recommends that Romania leave the EU and join the more supportive, powerful, and fairer Commonwealth of Independent States.

Cenanan

23-02-2006, 04:17

/ooc I'm treating Romania and Bulgaria as one unified alliance of states, but its simpler to treat them as one country. I've been going with the name RBA (Romanian Bulgarian Alliance)

/IC

As Prime Minister of Romania I would like to thank Russia for its invitation to the Commonwealth of Independent States, however at the current time RBA would like to remain in the EU

/PM
From: RBA
To: Russia
Depending on the outcome of our arms trade with France, RBA may be interested in the fine Commonwealth of Independent States.

/IC
To: Greece
From: RBA
We will take the idea of a Balkans Alliance into consideration, at the moment however we would prefer to maintain our own security and armed force.

Sel Appa

23-02-2006, 04:25

Naktan

25-02-2006, 09:28

Cenanan

26-02-2006, 06:49

/ooc Romania and Bulgaria both would have joined the EU in 2007 thus i would assume they are members at the present time.

Naktan

26-02-2006, 06:55

/ooc Romania and Bulgaria both would have joined the EU in 2007 thus i would assume they are members at the present time.

if that is as what we decide, it will be likewise updated... :)

Cenanan

02-03-2006, 18:02

*CNN*
Today, Bulgaria and Romania enhanced their previous alliance by forming the CBSS,(Coalition of Black Sea States) this coalition will serve as a full military and social alliance between all of its members. A constitution is in the process of being drafted and invitations to join are being sent to its nearby neighbering countries. The CBSS president Victor Alexandru has been quoted as saying "We feel that the formation of these states was nessicary. Lately there has been an increase in turmoil worldwide and rather then stand as independent countries we have decided to stand as one."

So far all of the countries petitioned to join have declined except for Turkey. While declining to give their reason for joining Prime Minister Çiller said this during his most recent speech to his people "Citizens. Today is a day that we will forever look upon as a glorious day. With our joining of the CBSS we will show a true democracy. Putting aside religious differences the joining of the Romanian states and ourselves will give us greater protection as well as an increased amount of pull on the world stage. Of course, none of this would have happened if it were not for the record turn out to vote at the elections that allowed the invitation to the alliance to pass. This day will lead us into a new era of technology, commerce and happyness!" The speech was met with a standing ovation. While we have not yet heard the response of the rest of the world we will of course report it as soon as it comes in.

Next up, we denounce President Bush's final days in office and make emblished remarks on President Clintons first days.

/ooc I asked Sel Appa if it was alright.. I think he said it was.. it was right before the forums went down. I'll post a "State of the Coalition report after I get some work done ^.^

Cenanan

03-03-2006, 05:24

*MSNBC*
A clip from a previously recorded speech from the president of the CBSS.
"With the majority of the world seeking Fusion power and trying to reach the moon, the CBSS has decided to put our research focus towards our homelands. It is on this note that we will begin extensive research towards genetics, cybernetics and microbiology. We welcome scientists from other countries to join us in this research and will be building a labratory complex for this explicit reason.
The Complex will be located Bulgaria to allow for easier trade between our states. That is all"

Regional Map
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f50/dvader12/region.gif

Location Map
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f50/dvader12/location.gif

Sel Appa

03-03-2006, 22:14

Foreign Affairs Minister: "Romania, Bulgaria, and Turkey have joined as one. It is an interesting development."

President Putin: "How will this affect us?"

FAM: "Well, it could help us...but they might provide competition. And their confederation allows them control of a large part of the Black Sea. If Ukraine were to join...which is unlikely...then...I don't know. We rely quite a bit on the Black Sea. If we come at odds against them..."

President Putin: "We will play it by ear then, I suppose."

Official Statement: Russia hopes this confederation will help have continued peace in the world and provide better economic conditions.

Cenanan

05-03-2006, 22:32

State of the Coalition
"People of the CBSS, this year has been a great one for us. We have added the great state of Turkey to our coalition, greatly increasing our size and strength in the world. We have established a new center for research and devolipment which we hope will allow us to lead the region in new technology in the years to come. On a the military front we are happy to report that another year has gone by without any major conflicts within our borders or on our borders. We have happily aided our Yugoslavian friends in controling the amount of arms passing through our borders in order to aid them in establishing a solid government. We will also be constructing a new Black Sea naval yard. This new facility should allow for a good number of new jobs in the region and will allow us to modernize our navy as well as construct new ships.

Our national debt is decreasing again for the third year in a row, while our unemployment is steadily decreasing. We have explored new alliances with our nearby countries and have made new friends worldwide. On a local front We have plans to begin construction of a high speed magrail line between the major cities of Ankara, Instanbul, Izmir, Sofija and Bucharest. These rail lines will allow rapid transit for citizens and goods between these locations. We would be more then happy to extend the rail lines to our border countries if they wished to join us in this endevour.

Thank you to the people of the CBSS and goodnight.

Cenanan

06-03-2006, 18:45

Construction has begun on an array of new Hydro-Electric power plants across the CBSS. These are going into production to counter the drain on the power grid due to more and more people becoming energy dependent.

On the production front a modified method of creating ceramic plates has been found. These plates of honeycombed ceramic and titanium with rubber insulation, have shown the capibility to withstand direct impacts from 100 MM shells while mostly retaining their shape. The plates made to date are only 25mm thick while weighing only 100g for a 600mm square pannel are layered with the insulation. It causes the force of the impact to be spread across the entire surface which is then diffused. the process for constructing these plates and molding them is fairly simple once established thus it allows for rapid construction of product. The material is to begin testing for use in various projects.

On a domestic note, construction of the mag-rail lines between the cities has begun. It is hoped that it will be done within 2 years. Construction on the naval yard has been started as well, planners estimate one year if all goes well.

Naktan

07-03-2006, 15:26

The Republic of France sends an invitation to CBSS, for the construction of a rail project, pending the approval of other European nations [Germany, Czech Republic Austria, Hungary, Yugoslavia, and finally ending in Istanbul]. We intend to extend TGV service along this line to improve infrastructure in the EU.

This rail will run from Paris to Leipizig, Prague, Vienna, Budapest, Belgrad, and finally in Istanbul, with various tributaries to be added at later times.

[ooc: this is pending Yugoslavia and Germany's acceptance.]

Naktan

07-03-2006, 15:45

Cenanan

07-03-2006, 17:27

Pending the approval of the other countries, we would be happy to link the rail lines.

Naktan

08-03-2006, 02:08

Yugoslavia has agreed to the rail plan, as have the other countries. There seems to be lag from Germany...

Cenanan

08-03-2006, 23:08

The CBSS Navy will be in the Mediterranean doing naval excersizes for the next few months. There will be live fire exercizes using some of the uninhabited islands off the coast of Turkey. These excersizes are to ensure the smooth workings of the now joint forces. Any private or trade traffic through this area will be required to have valid destinations and manifests.

Thank you.
Atabey Battal - Head of CBSS Military

Cenanan

09-03-2006, 04:11

Due to Turkey suddenly leaving the CBSS, Naval excersizes have been Canceled.

Cenanan

09-03-2006, 18:25

The CBSS recently announced that more money was going to be put towards reserch, education and military devolimpent. They are also looking to hire any willing engineers in the fields of cybernetics and human biology.

CBSS engineers have created a new portable harness system. This harness system allows a person to lift nearly 3 times what they could normally lift. By attaching to the legs, torso, arms and head of the user a small yet powerful computer reads the motions of the user and moves in response. The harness unfortunatly is currently required to be plugged into an exterior power source. Until an internal source is found it will be limited to civlilan uses. There has been discussion of combining this technology with the previously discovered ceramic plating. This harness system will allow people to do many times the amount of physical work then they normally did. Testing of these harnesses is expected to begin within the year.

In military news, a new semi-portable railgun system is being tested. The gun system, weighing roughly 27 kilograms fires solid iron slugs at speeds aproaching mach 6. A power source for this system is still being sought. It is thought that Batteries (http://pcworld.about.com/news/Dec262005id124073.htm) may work but the high energy requirement makes them unlikely until the battery capacty is increased.. The CBSS military is however building the railgun prototype in multiple sizes, from the fairly small 27kg version to the massive 200kg version that should mount on vehicles. Previously only being researched by the Militaries of Russia and the USA the CBSS military has declined to answer as to where they got the base schematics.

They will be opening sale of these guns to the world early in 2015 if all works out.

Harness Exoskeleton (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artificial_powered_exoskeleton)

Cenanan

10-03-2006, 01:36

The CBSS Naval yard has begun working on a new nuclear powered frigate. No information on its purpose has been released and the construction is being done in the enclosed drydock. The only information leaked was found on a random webpage that somebody posted, it was the picture of the ship to be constructed (http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f50/dvader12/frig.gif).

Naktan

11-03-2006, 06:11

SIC: If prompted, would the CBSS support military action against Australia in Somalia?

Cenanan

11-03-2006, 06:42

CBSS press conference prior to the Israeli Summit
President Alexandru speaking, he has just finished the bulk of his report on the economy and state of the coalition and has now opened up the floor to questions.
"Mr. President, As of late there has been a good deal of warfare going on in the world. With the invasion of Africa by Austrilia and Italy attacking Tunisina the people would like to know how our government stands on these issues."

-Alexandru "Well, that is a fairly complex question. The invasion of Africa is a deplorable act. however, the fact that they have been upgrading the technology of Somolia, increasing the standard of living and aiding the impovished people there we cannot help but praise them for what they have done. thus, at this time we will choose to remain neutral on the matter of Austrilia. Italy however is a completely unsuitable situtation. the attack on tunisina is totally unacceptable and deserves sanctions. That is all i will say on this issue. I have to go now, my flight is waiting for me. I have...a meeting"

Cenanan

13-03-2006, 20:36

State of the Coalition 2011
"People of the Coalition, last year was a good year and I personally hope that this year will be the same. The CBSS has made great strides in technology in the past year. The Mag-Rail program across our country has gotten close to completion. Within the year we will have high speed rail crossing our country and quite possably linking to Turkey and the greater EU. A recently launched gun platform will be active in the Black Sea for the next few months. If you hear any odd sounds coming from the area, dont worry. They are just doing their live fire tests. On the domestic science front, we are continuing our study of cybernetics. With the success of the strength increasing harness system last year we have worked in combinging the technologies together into a strength increasing limb replacement. We belive that this will help a great deal in civillian life. Remember, for all of you high school and college students out there. If you graduate with a degree in certain fields the government just might want to hire you at our lab. Due to the increase in research costs we are cutting back on our military budget. We are also increasing the budget for education so that in the future we will have a highly educated workforce.

Thank you, and goodnight

/SIC research
We are also studying human biology to attempt to find a type of chemical stim that could increase the speed and strength of the average soldier. We are expanding our study of magnitism to gauss weapons and magnetic coil weapons. We are primarily hiring the engineers from the mag-rail project to work on the mag-weapons projects. We have also started building a pair of pebble bed power plants to keep our country at full power and to allow us to cut back on the costs of oil.
If i think of anything else i'll post it later today.. its lunch time

Geneticon

13-03-2006, 20:38

State of the Coalition 2012 (its 2012.. right?)

OOC: It's 2011. You can find out on the first page of the OOC thread.

Cenanan

13-03-2006, 20:51

/ooc ah.. I thought he just might not have updated it yet.

Cenanan

13-03-2006, 23:00

The CBSS is happy to announce that because of the increase of border security from watching the Yugoslavian border and due to the crackdown on human trafficking through the country, the amount of said trafficking has been reduced to nearly 0. Security checkpoints on primary roads and the close monitoring of back roads and airports has stopped the ability of slavers to move people thru ought the country.
In other news, a wanted man was caught trying to cross the Yugoslavian border today. Vladimir Pelic, was captured attempting to sneak back across the border with a supply of stolen weapons. CBSS Police have begun tracking the weapons back to their supplier but it is unlikely that the source will be found. Pelic, was handed over to Yugoslavian police soon after his capture. The lucky border patrolwoman Elena Florica was reported to have said "I certainly hope that the government allows me to accept the reward, I would love to retire from the force and go back to school. I mean, 60K Euros? I could live off that for a while." The government of course said that they would allow her to have the reward, as it was her keen eye that recognized his face from the wanted posters. They have recommended studying Criminal Justice, as excellent police are always welcome.

Cenanan

14-03-2006, 17:22

/ooc thats it.. i'm backin up this page.

Cenanan

15-03-2006, 00:49

/SIC

(Aide) "Mr. President, The campaign to rally our neighboring countries has begun to work. We have started new partys that are rallying to join the CBSS. If they can work up to a majority we will soon have additional countries under our control."
(President Alexandru) " That is excelent news. Which countries have started leaning towards our side?"
(Aide) " Despite the fact that they are Not black seas states, Hungry and Greece have started leaning in our direction. Apparently the people of Greece are still somewhat unhappy with the way the government handled their last border conflict and are looking for somebody new. As for hungry, I have no idea why. They just seem to like us. Hopefully we will know within the year if they will be joining( /ooc hopefully one of them will.. just depends on what the admins say. Hungry has been unclaimed, and greece has been absent for a very long time.)
(President Alexandru) "Great. so, how has the testing on that ship been going?"
(Military Aide) "Sir, the ship tests out as seaworthy. The new hull material to be working perfectly. We need to do more tuning with the guns but thats to be expected with any new weapon. We can however begin Design on additional ships, we can simply leave the weapons off of them until we get the kinks out. Because of the modulare system we are using we can always install them later. That is one of the benifits of building them with interchangable parts. It also means that if nessicary we can simply change some of them into missile frigates or AA frigates at a later date. I'm quite glad we have been testing and building in secrecy, I believe a few navies might be intersted in purchasing some of these from us once word gets out"
](President Alexandru) "Well, I doubt we will be selling them for a few years, I would not want our government to be blamed for selling faulty equipment. Besides, I would like to see how they handle acual combat situations. Thank you for the update. "
(Aides) "Sir!"*both Aides salute and leave the office*

Cenanan

15-03-2006, 07:23

It was the early hours of the morning. Three Type 22 Frigates were waiting in the Akroteri Bay. Fully crewed and armed the frigates were waiting for their new counterpart to launch from their docks.
It was not long before they spotted the new gun platform. The CN-Daniela departed from the dock silently in the early morning light. The gun platform rode low in the water, as to reduce its identifiablity . "All systems are online" reported one of the ensigns. They met up with the trio of Type 22's, The Regele Ferdinand, The Regina Maria and the Mărăşeşti. The 4 frigates set off towards the Strait of Istanbul at full steam.
There was no radio chatter between the ships on that early morning. The crewmen were at high spirits thinking they were setting out to practice exercises. The captains of the ships knew differently but due to the secret nature of both the pair of new ships and their mission, they were unable to speak a word of it, even to each-other.
As they approached the Strait, the convoy of frigates was met by the Turkish Coast Guard. They escorted the frigates into the strait.
One of the ensigns on the Daniela looked up from his post, risking a glance at his Capitan he noticed a tear running down his face.
"Sir?" he asked, "Is there a problem?"
"No Ensign, I was just thinking. The Capitan of that Turkish Corvette. He's been a friend of mine for a long time. I've had him to my house as a guest after some of the training we used to do with their Navy. He's a good man. Yet, I know, if worst comes to worst... soon, I may not be able to call him friend anymore. I would consider that a great loss." The Capitan straightened up. "All ahead full"
"Yes Sir!" replied the ensign, while wondering... What was that about?

Cenanan

15-03-2006, 22:12

The sun rose for the 4 frigates in the mediteranian Sea. They had cleared the Strait of Istanbul nearly a day earlier. They had passed Cyprus and the southern border of Turkey quite quickly and were fast aproaching Israel. The Capitans of each individual ship took the moment of calm to announce to the crew their true mission. "We, as some of you have probably guessed by now, are not on a training mission. We are here to support Israel during their movement of the Rock of Dome. Hopefully, nothing will happen during the move and we will return to our previously planned training excersizes but be aware. From this point on all crews are are to be ready for battle."

Cenanan

16-03-2006, 00:35

/SIC
President Alexandru was hard at work. The movement of the Rock of Dome had been going smoothly and it appeared that it would not be nessicary to send CBSS troops to the area to aid Israel.

His military Advisor -General Alexis Majere was scheduled to arrive any soon with his report on the status of the CBSS Military. There was a knock at the door. The president looked up from his desk. "Enter."

The General stepped into the room, portfolios tucked under his arm. He saluted his President and moved to sit, the President returned the salute."So, what do you have for me today Alexi? asked the president"

The general laid out the portfolios onto the desk. "Sir, the reports are promising. The Alexander class frigates design is coming along well. We have have yet to fire its primary weapons but the Capitans report that the ship's power plant is stable, " He paused to turn the page.

"Our ground forces are doing quite well with the XM8 Rifles we have been building and are at full readyness. I hope we dont have to use them anytime soon. Devolipment of a Tank version of the naval weapon we designed is under way. We expect to hear something out of it within 5 years. The personal version works, but is somewhat under powered. We have experimented with hydrogen batteries but the gun needs more energy to fire properly. We have started constructing a basic exo-skeleton. The one we constructed before was functional and we will begin to use it sometime next year for basic military purposes, but, we are looking for something bigger. The current design idea that the engineers have come up with is a 4 legged walker. It should be able to maintain a decent speed, nearly 70 KMH. The engineers believe that a hydrogen engine would be the most efficent as we can include a device to convert water into fuel inside of the bot."He again paused to turn to another page, this time with Diagrams labeled (Thanatos Class) (http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f50/dvader12/railcrusier2.gif). This is the design for our new cruiser. Its big and as such we will have to build a new drydock to construct it. Of course it will be done in an inclosed dock as I dont really want anybody to steal our designs. We hope to begin construction in 5 years. Once construction begins we expect the entire build to complete within 2 years. We will finalize the construction plans of the new Alexander class frigates as scheuled. Once the designs are complete we will lay the first hull. Construction of the first ship will probably take a year but after the first is done and tested it is expected to take 5 months to complete each frigate so we should produce 4 of them each year (5 months each, 2 drydocks). We hope to build 8 more of them to add to our navy and afterwards we will open sales of the ship to any country who is interested in purchasing them."

The President smiled" Thats excelent news, is there anything else?"

Alexi looked through his portfolio "hm.. I do not believe there is. So, how is the wife?..."

Clan Smoke Jaguar

17-03-2006, 02:33

/ooc #1 Railguns are simple to build. there is not a lot of "R&D" needed to build one. Hell, there are full guides online on how to do it which include parts lists. Thus, requiring that i start from "scratch" to create one is bunk.
#2 Even if i had to build one from scratch, if you look back a page you will see that the CBSS planned for that contingency. we acquired a copy of the diagrams from the US's rail gun construction facility. I'll say it again, if you dont think that type of subterfuge works, you need to read "the Art of Deception or the Art of Intrusion" by Kevin Mitnik.
#3 The Ships were construted not out of metal, but out of the titanium-ceramic plating that was previouly devoliped. we tested the ships for seaworthyness and constructed them out of that materiel.
#4 yes, Liberty ship type construction. These are prototype ships. they do NOT currently have the best radar, the best sonar insulation. they are essensially A powerplant with a hull and guns. They were built to test if the ships design worked. These ships will be deconstructed and analized. The ships are modular, thus if some part of it is found lacking we can bring it back to the dock and remove what parts are wrong, such as the power loss during the test firing.
#5 Pie is good.
#6 We do have the engineers with the knowledge on how to build things like this, we built a mag rail system, same principal.
#7 One of the first things the CBSS did was build a lab. A good amount of funding has been going on there for projects like these. If one were to go back and read the entire thread they might find a few more. All of these projects are taken from real-life things being built. Most of them are far from completed but they will continue being researched.
#8 Funding- The CBSS's economy is growing at a good pace. before Romania and Bulgaria joined they already had a growing economy. Less money has been spent on purchasing more equipment, more has been put into education, border defense and Military research. I believe i mentioned all of this in previous "state of the coalition"s

Just wanted to add. The CBSS is not looking to expand its borders VIA military. With our location being so close to the CIS and the primary islamic nations, we are devoting more time and energy into the construction of new weapons. Weapons that could be used for defense and that could be sold to our friendly allies to aid in their defense.
#1 Lab rail guns, yes. Military guns, no. There's a huge difference in making something that works in lab conditions to show a concept compared to one that can take the rigours of miltiary use. You would still have to spend a great deal of time developing the weapon. Otherwise, it will likely fail on you in field conditions.
#2 You can copy the facilities, but that doesn't mean you can copy what they produce. It also doesn't mean you can afford the components. And military grade railguns need expensive components
#3 That might actually be more expensive and time consuming. Those aren't the easiest materials to work with, especially on a large scale. And plus, new materiels mean new research needed. Build time, not reduced.
#4 RL weapons trials ships are outdated vessels that would otherwise be decommissioned. New build ships for that purpose don't exist because it's not cost effective. And speaking of that, you should certainly not have several traials ships for one weapon. It goes the other way around. Several weapons for one trials ship. Again, cost is too big an issue. RL trials ships are also not combat vessels. They don't stray, and they don't demonstrate by going off and firing weapons that have not completed testing.
#5 Depends. Pumpkin and Blueberry are nice, but I don't care for Apple for some reason
#6 Same principle, different dynamics
#7-8 It's still a very expensive thing and might very well eat up more than your combined nations can afford.

The bottom line:
You cannot have a single ship with rail guns on it right now. I would say you cannot have a test vehicle until at least 2015, and I wouldn't see the first operational vessel until at least 2020. And that's probably being generous.

Kyanges

17-03-2006, 03:01

also.. US military that they show us tends to be 20 years behind what they acually have.

(OOC: But is all that "20 years ahead" stuff ready for combat? Plus, unless you've been working on rail guns for as long and as hard as the US has, you still wouldn't have them working by the same time.)

Clan Smoke Jaguar

17-03-2006, 04:26

OOC: You're still going to need to test it, design a ship for it, build said ship, iintegrate it into said ship, test said ship, etc. Even if you got a complete working prototype and all the blueprints, you'd still need years to get an operational system. If you have everything the US does, and they expect it by 2011, I'd say you can have it by 2015 at the earliest, not before.

Kyanges

17-03-2006, 04:39

Right. i dont have a working ship. I have a hull, with an engine and guns. its a prototype weapons platform. why do you think it sailed with escorts and not alone. it was made to test the guns themselves. they tested out fine. if you read what happened during the testing you can see that apparently we dont have enough of a battery power currently so it will have to be modified.

The US will show the world that it has the gun in 2011. It more then likely exists fully operational now in 2006.

(OOC: I doubt that in RL, but for me here, I'm not having that happen. The only black projects I've got are... *End Transmission.*)

Naktan

17-03-2006, 04:43

Right. i dont have a working ship. I have a hull, with an engine and guns. its a prototype weapons platform. why do you think it sailed with escorts and not alone. it was made to test the guns themselves. they tested out fine. if you read what happened during the testing you can see that apparently we dont have enough of a battery power currently so it will have to be modified.

The US will show the world that it has the gun in 2011. It more then likely exists fully operational now in 2006.

even granting that the USA has a fully functioning weapon, that doesn't mean that they're going to share it with you...you will still have to develop it...

Kyanges

17-03-2006, 04:48

hahaha >.< gotta love black opps. IRL tho.. i've had it confirmed by people that i know that were in the navy.

If it makes it any easier for you guys to accept.. think of it this way.
The ships that destroyed the convoy in lebanon were like the death star in episode 6. it required shielding and protection from other ships. the only thing functioning was the gun.

(OOC: TBH, I'm not too happy with the one man RP thing or stealing the blueprints. I personally would call that godmodding. However, I like how you're willing to listen (unlike some other nation.), and I hope that by bringing this concern up with you, you'll reconsider having a rail gun program this far along.

Granted, I wasn't controlling the US at the time you made that post, and therefore didn't really care. But now that I'm here.)

Cenanan

17-03-2006, 04:51

Kyanges

17-03-2006, 04:54

Yes. i'll push it back a few years I would like to keep the fact that i have a working prototype but god knows i wont be able to deal witht he battery power issue for a while. but if you dont believe that one man can do that kind of thing. PLEASE. go read the art of deception by kevin mitnik. that Can happen. and it does happen every day.

(OOC: I'll try and get a copy sometime.

For the nature of RP'ing in NS however, while such things happen, here, thing like that must happen with the agreement of both sides. Same as why someone can't say that they've now have terrorists in someone's nation because it was done secretly, and "happens every day."

You get what I'm sayin? ^_^.

EDIT: By now, you would have had a working prototype of some form I'm sure. I just don't agree with the means.)

Kyanges

17-03-2006, 05:00

your predicessor wouldnt sell me a prototype.. i needed one.. so i "attained" it ^.^ you gotta do what you gotta do. Btw.. did you know that with 3 phone calls a person could get your credit card #? Usually just by knowing your name.

(OOC: I understand, but please, just delete that happening. Please? As compensation, I agree to you having a prototype of some form (Preferably something different than the US model.), since by now you most likely have one anyway, with or without stealing blueprints.

As I said, I only have a problem with the means.

BTW, already happened to me, thanks.)

Naktan

17-03-2006, 05:06

Naktan, please. Unless your going to read the entire thread.. dont comment on it. It was explained in an earlier post how i "attained" a copy of the blueprints.

[ooc: I said even granting...I don't believe that there is a fully functioning warship that you could even get your hands on...

and I did read that post...having blueprints means you have to build it...there is no way that you wouldn't be building that ship in total secrecy... satellites can pick up almost anything, especially "secret" docks...the United States would have stopped your building or forces you to pay a whole bunch of money for that...they wouldn't have shared the technology with you...

in any case, the development is unreasonable, especially with your claim of using a prototype in action...that exceeds what your researchers and/or your shipyards can construct...]

Clan Smoke Jaguar

17-03-2006, 05:08

1) I should make a call and say that you cannot possibly have the blueprints for the US railgun since that would be an intelligence coup far beyond what your nation(s) should be capable of, and they'd never sell it. I'll let that slide.
However, even if you do, you need to construct the facilities to construct the gun, you have to design the ship and integrate the gun onto it, etc. This is not a two-year process, and if you somehow did this, the term "shoddy" should apply to what you have accomplished. It can't be that effective.

2) Test vessel equals one vessel, with one gun. No "if"s "and"s or "but"s about it. Anything more is an operational unit, especially for a navy as small as yours. Incidentally, your nations don't have much history in designing and building larger military vessels, which means a prolonged process. As I said, you shouldn't even have one yet. And if you can manage to get away with that, it's still probably going to be well beyond 2015 before you have an effective combat unit. The last Romanian attempt at a major surface combatant didn't go so well.

3) A liberty ship was a transport. That's simple and can be built a lot more quickly. Your post specifically stated the vessel type as a frigate (combat unit) and gave a class name, which means an operational unit. A test vessel is designated as a "test" or "trials" ship. Maybe "training." An experimental unit is known under the project name, and is again usually one of a kind. But you did give a clear impression that these were formally commissioned combat vessels. You then used them as such. Thus, your posts and claims seem to be quite different.

4) Assuming the one vessel you might get away with having, you just added several months to your project by having some tests overseas, and also deserve (and should receive) massive international condemnation for testing your weapons against another nation. You will then get protests from your own people for using an untested weapon in combat. That's how these things go.

I will let you get away with a single vessel with a single gun, but nothing more beyond that. You simply cannot claim more. I should not see a vessel commissioned, and effective, before 2020, unless you have significant help from modern nations with the technology and shipbuilding knowledge to participate. And even then, 2017 would be appropriate. You could have one launched by maybe 2016 or 2015 if you RP problems that need a few years to resolve though, but it still won't be an effective vessel even if it does get commissioned prematurely.

Kyanges

17-03-2006, 05:15

ah.. works for me. I'll clean up the means. Can we agree on a trade of tech then? I'll trade you the ceramic plating for the railgun. that way, both of us have some benifit from this.

sorry bout the credit card thing. didnt know.

(OOC: Thank you! ^_^. As for your trade proposal, I'll deal with this tomorrow. Need to read this thread some more and figure out what you're talking about.

-Credit Card thing, np.
-Rail gun means issue: Resolved.
-Everything else: I'll let CSJ, and Naktan work it out with you. I'm sure they will too. You seem reasonable so far.)

Naktan

17-03-2006, 05:22

your predicessor wouldnt sell me a prototype.. i needed one.. so i "attained" it ^.^ you gotta do what you gotta do. Btw.. did you know that with 3 phone calls a person could get your credit card #? Usually just by knowing your name.

When i got the tech.. nobody was playing the USA so i had to improvise.

[ooc: that's a very good reason to steal the technology...]

Naktan

17-03-2006, 05:31

#3 I used the term frigate for the size of the ship. ~300 ft long. Liberty ships had guns as well if you read about them.. not entirely transport eh?

[ooc: most merchant vessels carry armed personnel for civil defense...Liberty ships were built during WWII, with the height of the German submarine campaign - they had reason to arm them. Even so, they were transport vessels nonetheless. Putting military armaments on a transport vessel is alright, but it doesn't make it top-notch or even safe for your crew in combat. in the first place, these ships were built for mass-production, not survivability...]

Naktan

17-03-2006, 05:32

nak.. if there was a tech out that you KNEW would drasticly change the way a form of war was fought.. and when you asked if you fellow NATO ally would share it with you.. and they said essensially "Eat Me".. would you just drop it, let them create the weapon first and dominate the market?

[ooc: I'd make my own...France doesn't normally do overseas contracts...]

Clan Smoke Jaguar

17-03-2006, 06:16

#1, its not an intillegence coup. hell, the guy who got the prints for me was not even from my country. You want to know how it would happen? The government goes online. finds somebody who is interested in a good deal of money for a simple social engineering job. He does what he does. He gives us the information. usually on a dead drop on a chinese website or something. We wire him money to an offseas account. done.

#2 we have designed our own ships before. and its not like the one we used for this test was a really major design. engine, hull, frame. guns. If your sending something into the field for testing.. is usually wise to have a backup. isnt it?

#3 I used the term frigate for the size of the ship. ~300 ft long. Liberty ships had guns as well if you read about them.. not entirely transport eh?

#4 We had tested our weapons in our own waters first. In the state of the coalition message from earlier that year there was a warning about it. This was the first test against a live target and also a demonstration for a potential coustomer.
#1 That's actually a really lousy excuse for how you got them. The US would exhaustively screen anyone with access to that kind of material. Full blueprints are not something you tend to get from intelligence sources. They're too well protected, and for obvious reasons. But, as I said, I'll let it slide, even though that's completely absurd.

#2 Actually, they tend not to have a backup for ships. It's too expensive. If something happens on the ship, it's probably a fault of the weapon. If you put the ship in a situation where it might be something else, well you did a bad job of choosing the test. This isn't like it would be with an aircraft.

#3 As stated, Liberty ships were transports, and were given light guns to help fend off U-Boats. Every ship and its sisters at that time was expected to carry some guns if possible. U-Boats were causing absolute havoc in the Atlantic. Frigate is a term for a combatant, and your using that term, combined with how you used the vessels, are in stark contrast to how you seemed to think they were. It was these two facts that brought everyone down on you. If you'd just RPed you were testing rail guns at one of your own firing ranges and using a rickety old ship, most of us wouldn't care. The issue is, you had them deploy overseas and fight.
And for that matter, according to what you're claiming now, you shouldn't have the fire control capability for first round hits against such a small moving target. It needs some decent processing power and software to properly control the rail gun and aim like that.

#4 You demonstrate by showing off tests in your own waters. If these ships were not intended to be deployed outside your waters, you wouldn't be deploying them outside your waters. You don't have reason for that. If they were intended to be, than they have to be operational units.
And again, a test ship would only have one gun.

I have little wrong with you having rail guns, just not so many so soon. ONE gun on ONE test ship is all I could really accept. Any more is just absurd, especially with what you're trying to claim to make it acceptable.

Clan Smoke Jaguar

17-03-2006, 07:43

OOC: Well, I think we're both getting a bit touchy, so I'll end it here with 1 ship and two guns that's not finished testing just yet. I'll work towards the proper condemnations for your violent actions.
As long as I don't see a commissioned ship for a five or six more weeks, I'm okay. I'd also again look into someone to work with you with this. Italy, France, the UK, the US, or Germany would be best, but others like Spain and even Israel could help.

If I'd actually read what you were doing, I'd have mentioned it then and there, but I believe the only posts came before I did, and while I was away. It's difficult just to keep up with this after all.

Clan Smoke Jaguar

17-03-2006, 09:16

Remember that neither of your nations has built a frigate of its own in some time, and the last decent-sized one wasn't much of a success. You don't have a ship to integrate it on right now, so you need to build a new one. And no, the two years would probably only cover the construction of the operational ship, and would only work if it all went perfectly, you had it already designed, and you didn't need any more research done. And then, it still wouldn't be commissioned for probably another few years. The reality is that you have to design the production unit too, but you can't design a ship for these until you have the all the data from the tests. This will take at least two years. Then, after construction, you need to put it through trials, which can be anywhere from a few months to, more likely, a year or more. You could conceivably have an operational unit by 2015 or 2016, but it would be a seriously rushed job and would need a few more years of tuning (think like the trouble the French had with the Charles de Gaulle), and you certainly won't be building another ship until that's done.
Ships, especially major undertakings like this would be for you, do not pop up as operational units within lest than half a decade of the project's initiation. Heck, it took that long for Japan to get its first Kongo out from when it was ordered. Individual design work (recurring), construction, fitting out, and trials took 5 years. The trials and fitting out for the ship alone lasted 18 months, actually longer than the actual construction time, and that was for a ship that worked and was based on a proven design. This pattern is followed by most Japanese ships. It's usually about 5 years from the plan for a destroyer to the commissioning of the ship as an active unit. Even small frigates like the Abakuma took 3 & 1/2 to 4 years. The trend is followed by Russia and most of Europe. Just for an individual ship, it takes at least 5 years from start to finish. 2 years preconstruction, and 3 years for construction, fitting out, and trials. Sometimes much more (HMS Newcastle took 3 years between launching and commissioning, or just for trials and fitting out). The first Daring class will have undergone over 10 years of development upon commissioning (UK split in 1999, it goes operational in 2009. It was just launched last month). The Horizon is only slightly better off. The Charles de Gaulle took 11 years from being laid down to commissioning, and is still unsatisfactory. That's why the French are looking into the UK CVF program instead of building another. For the US, it took 5 years from the ordering of the original Ticonderoga to commissioning. Arleigh Burkes regularly took 6 years a vessel. Even OHP Frigates were 4-5 years. The DD-21s are expected to go 7 years for the first vessel, and 6 for each additional one. A matter of looking this up shows that it doesn't go through that quickly, even for the big, powerful nations that can just throw money at it. If you were just converting a ship, that's one thing, but the only ship you've got that would be good for this, is a pretty lousy unit. It also shows the kinds of problems that you might have designing your own. The Romanian designed and built Marasesti was laid up immediately after launch due to instability related to topweight, and was extensively modified over 4 years before being commissioned, and is still a problem. That took over a decade to get into operational status, and still sucks.

I'd say 2015-2016 at the absolute earliest, with help from another nation that knows what it's about. If you don't have that, you should tack a few more years on. Your nations don't have that good a history in designing their own warships.

Edit: some links for those who don't know for certain:
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/japan/kongo.htm
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/japan/takanami.htm
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/japan/murasame.htm
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/japan/abukuma.htm
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ship/cg-47-list.htm
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ship/ddg-51-unit.htm
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ship/dd-21-unit.htm
http://www.hazegray.org/worldnav/europe/romania.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_45_destroyer

And note that these links are just for construction of individual ships. Actual projects start earlier with preliminary design and acquisition. That lasts several years too.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horizon_CNGF The Daring went through over 15 years from initial development to commissioning. Granted, that was a joint project, but only for about 1/3 of that time.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DD-21 The DD-21 time frame is also shown there quite well. It includes three years of design work prior to work being started, and 10 years from program start until the first ship is launched. Then you have trials and fitting out for two years.

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