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http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=477909


rules
1.no flaming
2.we will do math
3. constructive critism please like i said before no flaming.
4. no reverse enginering.


we still use plasma weapons but this is another weapons system. 1 penny's weight in anti-matter is powerfull enough to lanch the sapceshuttle 60 times.

50 billion an pound

currently in storage-5000 lbs.

production facilties-5 billion
storage facilties-5 bilion capable of holding 500 lbs

so much, for so little of such a weak power sorce...

OOC: witht the tech my stuff is based on we can go from the Galaxy Ida(sp?) to the Milky Way in about 10 minutes...

weak?? ya right! its also hard to get.

Rather weak, actually, compared to FT stuff like ZPMs. Sucking the energy out of alternate universes has never been so fun. For modern tech, there's no real way to keep it from evaporating, so it's pretty much useless.

Rather weak, actually, compared to FT stuff like ZPMs. Sucking the energy out of alternate universes has never been so fun. For modern tech, there's no real way to keep it from evaporating, so it's pretty much useless.

FALSE! Fulerene can be used to encapsulaste AM(we think), so it's a practical weapon if you can break the Fulerene once you have it encapsulated.

In other news, if you wanna stay in real space, AM is the way to go, 100% mass to energy conversion.

[ Antimatter is the most powerful substance (or is that non-substance?) in existence. There is no way to produce a higher yield, figuratively and literally.

On another note, with something this monumental, I'd like to see a little more roleplaying to announce it. Also, it might be wise to sell the manufacturing components, instead of selling such a small amount (regardless of how powerful it is) for the equivalent of an entire fiscal budget. ]

Yes, but then there's the problem of getting it into the Buckministerfullerine in the first place, which is nearly impossible, given the general lack of holes. That and I'm pretty sure it still spontaneously evaporates occasionally.

You could get it into a Penning Trap, but that requires forming it at near absolute zero, and you need to keep the trap running or *boom*

When it comes down to it in MT, nukes are much, much, MUCH more efficient.

Antimatter is the most powerful substance (or is that non-substance?) in existence. There is no way to produce a higher yield, figuratively and literally.

Most powerful realspace method. ZPMs technically have a higher energy density, but they're supposedly tapping alternate realities, so it's tricksy.

Yes, but then there's the problem of getting it into the Buckministerfullerine in the first place, which is nearly impossible, given the general lack of holes. That and I'm pretty sure it still spontaneously evaporates occasionally.

You could get it into a Penning Trap, but that requires forming it at near absolute zero, and you need to keep the trap running or *boom*

When it comes down to it in MT, nukes are much, much, MUCH more efficient.


Most powerful realspace method. ZPMs technically have a higher energy density, but they're supposedly tapping alternate realities, so it's tricksy.

[ I don't understand why a higher dimension would have free energy running around, free to be harnessed by something. Just because we add a dimension, doesn't mean physics doesn't exist there, or something.

That, unfortunately, is a myth that some science fiction plays on, since almost none of their target audiences know what the hell is going on.

Now, if we somehow found a way to enter a quantam universe, things might be different. I say might, because I'm not as knowledgable as I'd like to be in quantam mechanics. ]

i am working on the genarator to sell and the other things to contain it.

[ I don't understand why a higher dimension would have free energy running around, free to be harnessed by something. Just because we add a dimension, doesn't mean physics doesn't exist there, or something.

That, unfortunately, is a myth that some science fiction plays on, since almost none of their target audiences know what the hell is going on.

Now, if we somehow found a way to enter a quantam universe, things might be different. I say might, because I'm not as knowledgable as I'd like to be in quantam mechanics. ]

Two words: The Warp. In FT that's a dimension of PURE ENERGY.(and Daemons, and Magick, but, I digress!) The Warp could definitely make a VERY good powerplant...

The exact mechanics of zero point energy escape me also, although for some reason or another it does work, the Casimir effect proves that. In the words of Terry Pratchett, it's probably quantum.

Two words: The Warp. In FT that's a dimension of PURE ENERGY.(and Daemons, and Magick, but, I digress!) The Warp could definitely make a VERY good powerplant...

[ Very true. However, this was the quantam reality I was earlier referring to.

Alternate dimensional universes simply mean that instead of x,y,z axises, there are x,y,z,zz axises, and so on. Nothing really changes. ]

A little information on anti-matter, courtesy of CERN. (http://public.web.cern.ch/Public/Content/Chapters/Spotlight/SpotlightAandD-en.html) I'd especially pay attention to the part about the total amount of AM being produced to this date being about enough to light a light bulb for a minute, as well as the problems with storing it.

A little information on anti-matter, courtesy of CERN. (http://public.web.cern.ch/Public/Content/Chapters/Spotlight/SpotlightAandD-en.html) I'd especially pay attention to the part about the total amount of AM being produced to this date being about enough to light a light bulb for a minute, as well as the problems with storing it.

yes but i am a future tech nation so i have the tech to make and store large amounts of it.

a new techological breakthrough that allowed us to scrap all our ships and biuld small ships with anti-matter engines and weapons. 1 penny's weight in anti-matter is powerfull enuf to lanch the sapceshuttle 60 times.

50 billion an ounce.

this may seem like a lot but this stuff is powerful.

You realise that it takes more power to make antimatter than you get back out of it in the end.

A little information on anti-matter, courtesy of CERN. (http://public.web.cern.ch/Public/Content/Chapters/Spotlight/SpotlightAandD-en.html) I'd especially pay attention to the part about the total amount of AM being produced to this date being about enough to light a light bulb for a minute, as well as the problems with storing it.

Well, yes, but right now my MT nation has found ways to improve that production rate impressively - to one gram every two years.

yes but i am a future tech nation so i have the tech to make and store large amounts of it.

However, your tech level is irrelevant - no technology could contain any more than (at maximum) 1/10 of a gram at a time if that - it is simply impossible to have that much pure positive or negative energy in one spot.

let me see.... of ya this is SCIFI! that means Science FICTION ie fiction defintion: fake,not real,made up.

b
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changed price and amount of AM

OOC: I lament that the reaction to anyone using, or rather "selling" anti-matter is to gloat about how superior your stuff is. Anyone can come up with a superior power source (though of course, all the ones posted so far are rip-offs - ZPMs (Which for the record, while they're highly comically explosive, don't actually produce all that much. An upper limit of about eighteen thousand kilotons per second, a large antimatter reaction could match that quite handily.) and "the warp" (in other words, magic)) but seriously, what's the point. Does it give you great pleasure to try and annoy anyone who's being vaguely realistic?

Now, Yallak:
However, your tech level is irrelevant - no technology could contain any more than (at maximum) 1/10 of a gram at a time if that - it is simply impossible to have that much pure positive or negative energy in one spot.

This is incorrect. I don't think you understand antimatter. It's not any more inherently powerful than normal matter, the stuff you're made of. I bet you weigh more than a tenth of a gramme, no? The reaction of anti-matter and matter is what you need to be worried about, not the existance of the anti-matter itself, which on its own, is no more dangerous than your blood.

Seek Crest of the Stars information.

Btw. Anti-matter has about 95% harnessable energy, its not 100% from the reaction. Containment of anti-matter is also pretty easy for a FT nation, and difficult for a PM nation. Just realize it is a superior fuel if you want to be realistic.

Now, Yallak:

This is incorrect. I don't think you understand antimatter. It's not any more inherently powerful than normal matter, the stuff you're made of. I bet you weigh more than a tenth of a gramme, no? The reaction of anti-matter and matter is what you need to be worried about, not the existance of the anti-matter itself, which on its own, is no more dangerous than your blood.

I do - but it appears you don't. Matter is balanced (made of positive and negative parts), therefore you can have any given amount of it in one place as long as you can fit it there. Anti-matter on the other hand is purely positive (for positrons) or purely negetive (anti-protons). Any more than about a tenth of a gram of purely negative or positive substance cannot be contain in one spot bucause of the repulsive forces between all the particles. (And you can't mix the positive and negative antimatter either because it loses its charge and can then no longer be effected by magnetic fields - ie. it is still uncontainable).
And if you can contain the stuff when you make it,it will react with matter and kaboom.

I do - but it appears you don't. Matter is balanced (made of positive and negative parts), therefore you can have any given amount of it in one place as long as you can fit it there. Anti-matter on the other hand is purely positive (for positrons) or purely negetive (anti-protons). Any more than about a tenth of a gram of purely negative or positive substance cannot be contain in one spot bucause of the repulsive forces between all the particles. (And you can't mix the positive and negative antimatter either because it loses its charge and can then no longer be effected by magnetic fields - ie. it is still uncontainable).
And if you can contain the stuff when you make it,it will react with matter and kaboom.

*points at Anti-Hydrogen.* Here we have Positrons and anti-protons. I can contain it quite easily. Here we also demonstrate that you don't know what you're talking about. Antimatter does not just come in sub-atomic particles, it also comes in anti-elements. Elements always have positronsand anti-protons, so explain exactly WHY I cannot contain them again?

*points at Anti-Hydrogen.* Here we have Positrons and anti-protons. I can contain it quite easily. Here we also demonstrate that you don't know what you're talking about. Antimatter does not just come in sub-atomic particles, it also comes in anti-elements. Elements always have positronsand anti-protons, so explain exactly WHY I cannot contain them again?

*points to my previous post which you didn't read properly*. As it says above - anti-elements have no charge. They are completely neutral. They cannot be held by magnetics fields or other such methods you would use to contain positrons and anti-protons.

So, care to explain how exactly you "quite easily" contain them?

*points to my previous post which you didn't read properly*. As it says above - anti-elements have no charge. They are completely neutral. They cannot be held by magnetics fields or other such methods you would use to contain positrons and anti-protons.

So, care to explain how exactly you "quite easily" contain them?

Well, there's always the Hyperfulerene option. AM inside a bucky ball, held in place by the repulsive field of the fulerene. ANYTHING in a bucky ball is isolated from everything else, including the bucky ball itelf.

And if you can't affect neutral elements with a magnetic field, explain why Iron, and other ferrous metals are affected by magnets? They're all neutral elements... And actually, ANYTHING can be moved by a powerful enough magnet. This is FT, we have kickass magnets out the ass.

I admit to knowing nothing about anti-matter but if anti-matter elements exist (I had never knew that anti-particles could exist beyond the subatomic level), might also charged anti-matter ions exist which could be affected by a field and concentrated? Or would making ions not solve the problem?

Edit:

Apparently, and correct me if I am wrong, only antihydrogen atoms and antideuterium nuclei have been produced so far, which I guess rules out making ions in either case (we'd be back at square one once again, with a single antiproton).

Well, there's always the Hyperfulerene option. AM inside a bucky ball, held in place by the repulsive field of the fulerene. ANYTHING in a bucky ball is isolated from everything else, including the bucky ball itelf.

That would work for anti-protons and positrons - in minute quantities, but not for anti-elements, in all logical sense.

And i now quote from researchers at CERN: "If an antiparticle is electrically neutral then electric and magnetic fields have no hold on it at all. Therefore, there is no easy way to contain neutral antimatter particles, i.e. no way to keep them away from the normal-matter walls of the vessel in which they are. They therefore almost immediately come into contact with normal matter and annihilate."

And if you can't affect neutral elements with a magnetic field, explain why Iron, and other ferrous metals are affected by magnets? They're all neutral elements...

Anti-hydrogen, (although opposite - being just like hydrogen) would not be effected by the field produced by a magnet.

If anti-matter elements exist (I had never knew that anti-particles could exist beyond the subatomic level), might also charged anti-matter ions exist which could be affected by a field and concentrated? Or would making ions not solve the problem?

I don't think it would solve the problem because containment problems are made simply from the inablility to keep more than minute quantities of the negative or positive particles together. Ions, still having charge would have the same failings.

Apparently, and correct me if I am wrong, only antihydrogen atoms and antideuterium nuclei have been produced so far, which I guess rules out making ions in either case (we'd be back at square one once again, with a single antiproton).

I believe that you are correct. I have only heard of those two anyway.

That would work for anti-protons and positrons - in minute quantities, but not for anti-elements, in all logical sense.

And i now quote from researchers at CERN: "If an antiparticle is electrically neutral then electric and magnetic fields have no hold on it at all. Therefore, there is no easy way to contain neutral antimatter particles, i.e. no way to keep them away from the normal-matter walls of the vessel in which they are. They therefore almost immediately come into contact with normal matter and annihilate."



Anti-hydrogen, (although opposite - being just like hydrogen) would not be effected by the field produced by a magnet. Normal atoms like Iron and anti-hydrogen also have completely different structures.

You're still thinking in MT. This is FT we speak of. And even in MT we can move ANYTHING with a significantly powerful electromagnet. That includes NON-FERROUS items as well. If we can make a magnet capable of moving something like wood for example(not ferrous in the least), FT can certainly make a magnet to contain ANY type of AM you wanna crank out.

A thought just occurred to me. I use Honorverse, that means Gravity Control like nobodies business. AM has mass, so just use a gravity containment field to keep everything together. If a sidewall can stop anything "solid" at any range, it can stop AM, which has to have physical presence, from meeting anything outside the bubble. All hail creative manipupulation(perversion?) of the l;aws of physics!

I do - but it appears you don't. Matter is balanced (made of positive and negative parts), therefore you can have any given amount of it in one place as long as you can fit it there. Anti-matter on the other hand is purely positive (for positrons) or purely negetive (anti-protons).

That was pretty mind numbing. Let me explain to you.

Positrons are anti-electrons.
Antiprotons are anti-protons (shock horror).

Anyone wanting to reduce inter-particle repulsive charges would simply combine them. Just like normal electrons and normal protons. Then you have anti-hydrogen, and that has no overall charge.

Now, I hate to point this out to you, but NS future tech is "Sufficient." You don't seem to get that, in comarison to FTLing super-uber nations, CERN and its ilk are beyond primative. What's more, even if they didn't want to make antihydrogen, NS FTers, who routinely break the laws of physics as we know them, up down and sideways would have no difficulty generating 'sufficent' energy to overcome the forces involved and make a working antiproton bottle.

I was going to say roughly the same thing. According to what MT science knows of physics, FTL ships are impossible, yet FT nations have them. Harnessing anti-matter is in the same category.

Positrons are anti-electrons.
Antiprotons are anti-protons (shock horror).

Anyone wanting to reduce inter-particle repulsive charges would simply combine them. Just like normal electrons and normal protons. Then you have anti-hydrogen, and that has no overall charge.

I'm well aware of that.

What's more, even if they didn't want to make antihydrogen, NS FTers, who routinely break the laws of physics as we know them, up down and sideways would have no difficulty generating 'sufficent' energy to overcome the forces involved and make a working antiproton bottle.

Anyone can make an antiproton bottle. An anti-atom bottle on the other hand - not so easy. But if your going to ignore the laws of physics thats a different matter and this discussion becomes pointless.