NationStates Jolt Archive

[ooc:] For those of you who know my other nation, I've stated repeatedly that I know very little about naval designs, or nothing. As this nation, however, because of a larger military budget, I'm thus able to afford more stuff. That means a larger navy with more power. Therefore, I purchased a large naval package recently at one of the storefronts.

However, to my chagrin, it appeared to sell no arsenal ships, which are in my mind rather important, perhaps due to the Scellian War. Instead of looking for them in other storefronts, I got the crazy idea of designing one myself... I know, insane, isn't it? ;)

Anyway: I'd like to design a ship with a heavy missile fire, relying extensively on any number of VLS systems, cruise missile launchers, a few SAM batteries, etc. Other armament should include a few secondary guns such as railguns, if they'll fit, and I'm looking towards a sturdier trimaran design, although any suggestions will be welcomed.

Oh, and I'd prefer nuclear power, because of the range...

(Anyone who wants to design a picture is welcome to, as well.)

[bump]

[ooc:] For those of you who know my other nation, I've stated repeatedly that I know very little about naval designs, or nothing. As this nation, however, because of a larger military budget, I'm thus able to afford more stuff. That means a larger navy with more power. Therefore, I purchased a large naval package recently at one of the storefronts.

However, to my chagrin, it appeared to sell no arsenal ships, which are in my mind rather important, perhaps due to the Scellian War. Instead of looking for them in other storefronts, I got the crazy idea of designing one myself... I know, insane, isn't it? ;)

Anyway: I'd like to design a ship with a heavy missile fire, relying extensively on any number of VLS systems, cruise missile launchers, a few SAM batteries, etc. Other armament should include a few secondary guns such as railguns, if they'll fit, and I'm looking towards a sturdier trimaran design, although any suggestions will be welcomed.

Oh, and I'd prefer nuclear power, because of the range...

(Anyone who wants to design a picture is welcome to, as well.)

First off, when you mean arsenal I'm assuming you mean supply ships? If not then never mind the rest of what I say, if I'm assuming correctly then I hope this helps.

First off on powerplant- nulcear would not be your best option for use in a supply ship. A diesel or gas turbine would be better, nuclear would take up to much room thereby decreasing the amount of stores you could carry, to compensate you would have to make the ship bigger, i.e. a bigger target. Next, most supply ships have limited weapons on board. One 3in gun, 20 or 30mm CIWS, and some have a few missile launchers for Stinger missiles. If you add all that missile fire you said above, its no longer a supply ship but a destroyer.

Finally, my storefront has a wide selection of ships to choose from- all MT- we also have a Auxiliaries section. Heres the link UDI storefront (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=458937)

[I'm also Devlyn. If you couldn't tell from the sig.]

No, actually I'm talking about a ship whose sole purpose is to provide enormous amounts of missiles to support other more multi-role ships. Supply ships I will clearly label as such.

Are you intending it to be more or less a missile stuffed cargo ship like the RL proposals or soemthing a bit more robust? also what sort of size/payload are you looking at? (RL was 30,000tons for 500VLS tubes IIRC)

I have made a ship like that called " Raven droppings". The ship has 10x 20 XLAMR ship to air/surface missile, with auto-reload systems, 4x 10in main guns, and 6 H.A.E.S.B.'s. The ship has a minimal crew and can deliver about 200 missiles in about 1 min. Of course It is still in its test phase but it does seem to be doing well.

Are you intending it to be more or less a missile stuffed cargo ship like the RL proposals or soemthing a bit more robust? also what sort of size/payload are you looking at? (RL was 30,000tons for 500VLS tubes IIRC)
Yes, a little bit like the RL ones, although with a few self-defense armaments as well.

I have made a ship like that called " Raven droppings". The ship has 10x 20 XLAMR ship to air/surface missile, with auto-reload systems, 4x 10in main guns, and 6 H.A.E.S.B.'s. The ship has a minimal crew and can deliver about 200 missiles in about 1 min. Of course It is still in its test phase but it does seem to be doing well.That sounds good. Do you have a link for it?

The Freethinkers, one of the few that can design a superior ship to the Doujin (cos he's it's Maker), should be able to make a good one for you....though I doubt that he is free, as he denied my comission for a drawing. Post on his forum-storefront here (http://s7.invisionfree.com/FDI/index.php) to see whether he'll respond.

Or, you can post on Sarzonia's PIW 3.0 thread (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=457777), taking one out of his catalogue or if you don't like it, ask for a custom design or you can broker a contract with the Royal Shipyards of Isselmere-Nieland (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=361894)...he needs more love, as Sarzonia and Praetonia are out-muckraking him and leaving his shipyards in a not so glorious state. Hope I was of help!

I posted a really quick pic on my main war thread called The sound of a thousand jackboots, I think its on pages 14,or 15. I also put basic specs up but I will get the rest later.

Thanks Southeast Asia and Raven Corps, I'll look them up when I have time.

[ooc:] For those of you who know my other nation, I've stated repeatedly that I know very little about naval designs, or nothing. As this nation, however, because of a larger military budget, I'm thus able to afford more stuff. That means a larger navy with more power. Therefore, I purchased a large naval package recently at one of the storefronts.

However, to my chagrin, it appeared to sell no arsenal ships, which are in my mind rather important, perhaps due to the Scellian War. Instead of looking for them in other storefronts, I got the crazy idea of designing one myself... I know, insane, isn't it? ;)

Anyway: I'd like to design a ship with a heavy missile fire, relying extensively on any number of VLS systems, cruise missile launchers, a few SAM batteries, etc. Other armament should include a few secondary guns such as railguns, if they'll fit, and I'm looking towards a sturdier trimaran design, although any suggestions will be welcomed.

Oh, and I'd prefer nuclear power, because of the range...

(Anyone who wants to design a picture is welcome to, as well.)


OOC: Is this the ship you were talking about? http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ship/arsenal_ship.htm

If so, I'd be interested.

OOC: Is this the ship you were talking about? http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ship/arsenal_ship.htm

If so, I'd be interested.
That kind of ship, yes.

That kind of ship, yes.

OOC: Cool. You want to start the IC stuff, or should I?

You can, since ICly I haven't actually known you existed before this...

Although we do not have arsenal ships available, we believe that this ship may prove to be more effective (and less expensive overall) for your fleet.
CGN-1 Rickover:
Abstract: Named after the founder of the nuclear navy, this 17,000 ton cruiser is fitted out with 250 cells of VLS. It also carries two helicopters and two UAVs - we provide the SH-60G and the RQ-1E UCAV, respectively.

Length: 764 feet (232.87 meters)
Beam: 88 ft (26.82 meters)
Draft: 40.5 feet (12.34 meters)
Displacement: 17,000 tons
Propulsion: 3 D2G nuclear reactors; two shafts, 105,000 shp
Aviation: 2 ASW helicopters, two UAVs
Electronics: 1 AN/SPY-1D, 1 AN/SPS-67(V)3 Radar, 1 AN/SPS-64(V)9 Radar, 1 AN/SQS-53C(V) Sonar, 1 AN/SQR-19(V) TACTAS Sonar, 1 AN/SLY-2 EW suite, SLQ-25A Nixie, 6 MK 36 MOD 6 Decoy Launching Systems, 1 AN/SWG-3A TOMAHAWK Weapon Control System, 2 AN/SWY-2 Fire Control Systems (for RIM-116C)
Armament: 250 cells of Mk. 41 VLS, 2 5"/54 (127mm) guns, two 20mm Vulcan Phalanx CIWS mounts, two Mk. 49 21-cell launchers for RIM-116C point-defence SAMs, two Mk. 32 324mm triple ASW torpedo tube mounts, two twin 21" torpedo tubes
Armor: 30.48mm (1.2") RHA steel
Price: $2.1 billion (subtract $170,000 for 114mm guns in place of 5"/54 caliber guns; add $500,000 for EH-101 Merlins in place of SH-60Gs, add $100,000 to replace both Phalanx mounts with one 30mm Goalkeeper CIWS mount, subtract $1 million to replace RQ-1E UCAVs with unarmed RQ-1D UAVs)

Thank you for considering our offer; if you are interested in other warships, please contact us here (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=464764).

Sincerely,
Adm. Thad Cochrane (ret.), CEO of Baltimore Shipyards
Adm. Michael Mullen (ret.), Head of R&D at Baltimore Shipyards

OOC: Here goes.

IC: Allied States of Gun Manufacturers is on the lookout for development partners for the next generation naval warship. Designed to replace the aging battleship design, this ship should be able to serve as the center of a battlegroup. The proposed design will (hopefully) include:

a nuclear reactor for long range autonomy
modular VLS system designed for a customized weapons loadout
secondary weapons system designed to fire unguided munitions
hull shape with reduced radar cross-section
state of the art computerized radar, with real-time data sharing (to other fleet vessels)

The ASoGM has little experience with nuclear reactors, so we will be unable to contribute in that area. If any nation is interested in helping with the design of this vessel, feel free to fax our office with your proposals.

signed,

David Drefrees, Minister of Defense ASoGM

[ooc:] I've looked up a few of the storefronts and did some research on wikipedia and the US Navy's website, so I think I know a little more now than previously.

In response:

[ic:]

Official Message
From: The Oligarchical Republic of Devlyn; National Republican Shipyards
To: The Allied States of Gun Manufacturers
Re: Naval design

Greetings! Hearing of your need for a new naval warship and examining the prospective function and purpose of the design, we wish to act as development partners in this venture, with your permission. Devlyn has also been searching for a similar design.

For the nuclear powerplant, we would recommend a Siegmann-Neukirsch Vardien Mk. IX Pebblebed Modular Nuclear Reactor (PBMR), "a new type of high temperature helium gas-cooled nuclear reactor, which builds and advances on world-wide nuclear operators' experience of older reactor designs" [Kriegzimmer]. A single SiN Vardien Mk IX can propel a ship the size of a light cruiser to 28 knots by generating energy for waterjets placed around the underside of the hull. For a larger ship of battleship size, two reactors will be able to propel the warship to approximately 32 knots.

As for the VLS systems, we would suggest a rotating design; i.e. one in which each vertical launch tube can rotate to expose another cell, allowing not only for a massive number of missiles to be launched in a short space of time, but for a fast reload, allowing the ship to retain a near-constant rate of fire.

For the secondary armament we would recommend electrothermal-chemical (ETC) guns of between 155mm (6.1") and 305mm (12"); while these are fairly expensive, they allow for minimum chemical emissions and recoil. The advanced gun propulsion systems will enable greater accuracy for even the unguided munitions fireable by the guns themselves.

On other points, however, we are fairly inexperienced, and will call for other more experienced developing corporations to work on a joint design.

~ Board of Directors

[ooc:] I've looked up a few of the storefronts and did some research on wikipedia and the US Navy's website, so I think I know a little more now than previously.

In response:

[ic:]

Official Message
From: The Oligarchical Republic of Devlyn; National Republican Shipyards
To: The Allied States of Gun Manufacturers
Re: Naval design

Greetings! Hearing of your need for a new naval warship and examining the prospective function and purpose of the design, we wish to act as development partners in this venture, with your permission. Devlyn has also been searching for a similar design.

For the nuclear powerplant, we would recommend a Siegmann-Neukirsch Vardien Mk. IX Pebblebed Modular Nuclear Reactor (PBMR), "a new type of high temperature helium gas-cooled nuclear reactor, which builds and advances on world-wide nuclear operators' experience of older reactor designs" [Kriegzimmer]. A single SiN Vardien Mk IX can propel a ship the size of a light cruiser to 28 knots by generating energy for waterjets placed around the underside of the hull. For a larger ship of battleship size, two reactors will be able to propel the warship to approximately 32 knots.

As for the VLS systems, we would suggest a rotating design; i.e. one in which each vertical launch tube can rotate to expose another cell, allowing not only for a massive number of missiles to be launched in a short space of time, but for a fast reload, allowing the ship to retain a near-constant rate of fire.

For the secondary armament we would recommend electrothermal-chemical (ETC) guns of between 155mm (6.1") and 305mm (12"); while these are fairly expensive, they allow for minimum chemical emissions and recoil. The advanced gun propulsion systems will enable greater accuracy for even the unguided munitions fireable by the guns themselves.

On other points, however, we are fairly inexperienced, and will call for other more experienced developing corporations to work on a joint design.

~ Board of Directors

David Drefrees looked over the message from The Oligarchical Republic of Devlyn, called his assistant into his office, and had him copy the message, and send the copy to the president. He had the approval to accept any nation into this project, without the need for clearance from the president. He then began his reply.

Secure reply to The Oligarchical Republic of Devlyn

The ASoGM would like to welcome you into this project. We hope that this is the start of a great friendship between our nations, and that our nations can work to create a superior vessel to what is currently available. We would like to keep open the possibility of adding more nations to the development of this vessel, to allow for overlaps in design specialities. On that note, your nation appears to have the technological expertise to handle the design of the nuclear plant(s) needed for this vessel.

The ASoGM plan regarding the VLS system is to have all available missiles in launch position, ready to fire (this would remove any lag due to reloading). The plan is of course, subject to change, and we can consider your option as well.

For the secondary weapon system, we were looking at possibly two 9" ETC guns (one on the bow, and one on the stern). They should provide a better punch than a 6.1" gun, while allowing more munitions capacity than the 12" gun.

If you need any information from me concerning this project, I will be available for contact at my office. My secure office line is (806-555-7312).

Official Response
To: David Drefrees, Allied States of Gun Manufacturers
From: Oligarchical Republic of Devlyn; National Republican Shipyards
Re: Naval design

I thank you for your permission to work on this project alongside yourselves. While we may not have the largest amount of experience in creating warships, Devlyn's switch to nuclear power some years ago enables us to build nuclear reactors capable of producing strong propulsion.

As concerns your proposed VLS design, while this is admirable it will take up a lot of space, increasing the ship's radar cross-section, requiring more armor, and eventually ending up more expensive. Our system was proposed in the interests of economy, although your design is feasible and quite good as well.

The two 228.6mm ETC guns are a good balance between the two other proposed guns, and will provide the warship with enough longer-range ordnance to engage targets from some 30-40 km away. As an anti-aircraft measure as well as an anti-shipping one, we also suggest positioning six 76mm guns, three port and three starboard; these can also serve the function of a CIWS if necessary.

Please let us know what you think.

~ Board of Directors

OOC: Ah, Dev, I found a storefront that has a decent arsenal ship that may suit you. Click here for The Phoenix Milita's naval storefront! (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=376554) Scroll down to look for it.

EDIT: It's called the CG-59 Volcano-class Arsenal Ship.

Official Response
To: David Drefrees, Allied States of Gun Manufacturers
From: Oligarchical Republic of Devlyn; National Republican Shipyards
Re: Naval design

I thank you for your permission to work on this project alongside yourselves. While we may not have the largest amount of experience in creating warships, Devlyn's switch to nuclear power some years ago enables us to build nuclear reactors capable of producing strong propulsion.

As concerns your proposed VLS design, while this is admirable it will take up a lot of space, increasing the ship's radar cross-section, requiring more armor, and eventually ending up more expensive. Our system was proposed in the interests of economy, although your design is feasible and quite good as well.

The two 228.6mm ETC guns are a good balance between the two other proposed guns, and will provide the warship with enough longer-range ordnance to engage targets from some 30-40 km away. As an anti-aircraft measure as well as an anti-shipping one, we also suggest positioning six 76mm guns, three port and three starboard; these can also serve the function of a CIWS if necessary.

Please let us know what you think.

~ Board of Directors

To: Oligarchical Republic of Devlyn; National Republican Shipyards
From: David Drefrees, Allied States of Gun Manufacturers
Re: Naval design

Actually, it will take up less space, as there is no loading mechanisms to worry about. There will also be no launch apparatus sitting above deck reflecting radar waves, as the VLS sits below the deck. Loading time will be non-existant, as all the missiles will be ready to fire in their modular VLS blocks.

The CIWS is a good idea, and we will implement it into the design immediately.

Official Response
To: David Drefrees, Allied States of Gun Manufacturers
From: Oligarchical Republic of Devlyn; National Republican Shipyards
Re: Naval design

Adding the VLS systems below deck is indeed an excellent idea; we simply had the wrong impression as concerns our knowledge of other naval ship designs. As for the radars and electronics, we would recommend speaking to other major military designing companies and arranging meetings for enlightenment on the subject. Please inform us when the first drafts of the design are completed so we can look them over along with you.

~ Board of Directors

Official Response
To: David Drefrees, Allied States of Gun Manufacturers
From: Oligarchical Republic of Devlyn; National Republican Shipyards
Re: Naval design

Adding the VLS systems below deck is indeed an excellent idea; we simply had the wrong impression as concerns our knowledge of other naval ship designs. As for the radars and electronics, we would recommend speaking to other major military designing companies and arranging meetings for enlightenment on the subject. Please inform us when the first drafts of the design are completed so we can look them over along with you.

~ Board of Directors

To: Oligarchical Republic of Devlyn; National Republican Shipyards
From: David Drefrees, Allied States of Gun Manufacturers
Re: Naval design

We hope another nation or two will sign on for this project, to help in the areas you mentioned. If possible, we would prefer a radar system that can relay information (in realtime) to other ships in an arsenal ship's battlegroup. We feel this will increase the effectiveness of the arsenal ship's command ability, by making the entire battlegroup aware of possible threats.

We are working now with ship designers (within ASoGM), to layout the hull's basic shape. We wouldn't mind finding another nation (with more experience) to take over this role, however.

More updates as they are available.

Official Message
To: David Drefrees, Allied States of Gun Manufacturers
From: Oligarchical Republic of Devlyn; National Republican Shipyards
Re: Naval design

With some aid from an international panel of designers The NS Draftroom , we have drawn up a preliminary draft of the vessel. All of the current specifications are included, save electronics, which our teams are still working on. If you have anything to add to this, please let us know.
Overview: Plans for the Arsenal-class Missile Ship were first drawn up by Devlyn National Shipyards at the request of a design from the Allied States of Gun Manufacturers. While it has yet to be tested in combat, it is expected to wield a powerful array of missiles, thus proving itself a formidable opponent against ships of a similar size of even larger. The Arsenal was designed for a single role; to fire ridiculous amounts of ordnance at an enemy fleet, a role in which it is expected to work very well.

Hull Design and Protection: The Arsenal is built upon a cruiser-style trimaran hull, a total of 125 meters in length, 36 meters in beam, and 12.5 meters in draft, displacing a total of 56,250 metric tons. Overall it is covered with 200-600 mm of an alloy of amorphous steel, aluminium, and vanadium, interlocked with a matrix of tungsten to bond the layers of armor together. Void spaces are left around the reactors and main missile and gun magazines, filled with ceramic plates and KERI foam to reduce the impact of a kinetic energy attack. The sturdy titanium honeycomb frame and double-bottomed keel serve to strengthen the hull further, giving it additional protection against attacks from any side.

Armament: The Arsenal's main gun armament consists of two double mounts of 228.6mm/36 caliber ETC guns, one fore and one aft. This particular gun was chosen due to its better accuracy and more rapid fire over the 305mm gun and its longer range over the 155mm gun, both of which were propsed for the initial design but rejected. Each turret holds a maximum of 600 shells per gun.

The vessel is armed with a secondary armament of six single mounts of 76mm/20 caliber rapid-fire rifles, three port and three starboard, for use both as an anti-air and CIWS role. Each turret holds a maximum of 480 shells per gun; reload is automatic.

The Arsenal holds five 16x16 multirole VLS blocks, two per secondary hull and one on the central hull. These blocks are located below deck, decreasing the vessel's radar cross section and allowing for larger launch tubes. Each tube is dual length in design, much like those found on such warships as the Doujin-class Super-Dreadnaught, for a total length of 8.5 m (4.25 m per launch tube). Generally, these are fitted with a mix of anti-shipping missiles, cruise missiles, SAMs, or ASW missiles; a total of 2,560 missiles in all can be carried within this launch system.

The vessel also carries eight four-cell long-range ballistic missile launchers, for missiles that will not fit within the limited VLS space; four port and four starboard. These are capable of launching up to 32 large ballistic missiles or 64 smaller missiles in all.

Propulsion: The Arsenal is powered by two Vardien Mk. IX pebblebed modular nuclear reactors and four internalized waterjets, providing a total of [?] horsepower. All in all this gives it a cruise velocity of 30 knots and a flank velocity of 36 knots. In case of the failure of these reactors, the vessel has a backup power system of one diesel/electric hybrid reactor providing a total velocity of 10 knots (the "Get me home" speed).p

~ Board of Directors

(Also a belated *bump*.)

Official Message
To: David Drefrees, Allied States of Gun Manufacturers
From: Oligarchical Republic of Devlyn; National Republican Shipyards
Re: Naval design

With some aid from an international panel of designers The NS Draftroom , we have drawn up a preliminary draft of the vessel. All of the current specifications are included, save electronics, which our teams are still working on. If you have anything to add to this, please let us know.


~ Board of Directors

(Also a belated *bump*.)

To: Oligarchical Republic of Devlyn; National Republican Shipyards
From: David Drefrees, Allied States of Gun Manufacturers
Re: Naval design

Due to our military (in particular, our navy) going in a different direction, we will be required to withdraw from this project. Since it would be a waste of resources to drop the project completely, all documentation we have on the project will be forwarded to your nation, so you may continue the project on your own. We do apologize for any inconvenience this may have caused.