NationStates Jolt Archive

Ok, here's the deal. I always spend a really really long time messing with my military, and I end up screwing it up anyways. Like, I'll get the numbers wrong, or I wont have enough support staff. So, I would like the good people of NS to help me build a military based on RL equipment that I can build in my own factories without having to go to a storefront. Contracts are cool too. here's what I need.


A navy that can successfully defend a coastine about the size of Saudi Arabias in an area bound to be fililed with navies with naval superiority.
An airforce that can have air superiority in the home land, while haveing strike force capibilties, stealth and spy capabilities, and ground troop reinforcement overseas
An infantry that can operate in urban settings as well as heavily forested areas, swamps, mountains, and farmland
and A mechanized calvary that can easily defend, reinforce, and move the ground troops

I would really like this to be able to grow with my country, like each branch of the military broken into divisions or brigades so I can just increase the size by fractional increments.

Thank you very much for your time.

Okay, you have eight million people. One percent of that, which is reasonable for a nation's military, is 80,000 military personnel. Splitting between the three branches gives 30,000 army, 30,000 navy, and 20,000 air force - although you can flip those last two if you like.

Army:
30,000 men, so one infantry division and one armored division, with each division having two infantry or armored regiments and one armored or infantry regiment, respectively; or, one infantry division, with two infantry brigades (each with two infantry regiments and an armored regiment) and one armored brigade (with one infantry regiment and two armored regiments).

Navy:
20,000-30,000 men, most of which will be involved in maintaining your ships and ports. You'll want a brown-water navy: missile boats, corvettes, diesel subs, and, in general, anything with a low draft.

Air Force:
20,000-30,000 men, most of which will be involved in maintaining your planes and bases. You'll have to focus on air superiority in your nation first; start small. In the air, quality tends to beat quantity (as long as quality has enough missiles).

I hope this was useful.

Okay, you have eight million people. One percent of that, which is reasonable for a nation's military, is 80,000 military personnel.

Some nations accept you to have a military at 5 percent of your nations population. Meaning that you can take your nations pop. and multiply it by either .01, .02, .03, .04, or .05, depending on the percentage of population you want in your military. Define that and we can build a military around that.

Sweet!
Thanks for the help. That actually only leaves me with 4,285 men left considering a 1-7 ratio for support staff. God I wish I just ressurected my old nation.
EDIT-I think I'll go with the .05 ratio which gives me 400,000 total and 57,142 for combat.

Ok, now for the equipment. I have a military budget of about 3 billion (I think, third geek is being mean), but remember I've completly privitized the production side of the military.

Forgot to add this to Air Force - Buy F-35s; they tend to be a good deal cheaper (about $45 million instead of about $95 million) than F-22s and are not much less capable.

Good point. I was looking at F-35's before I think, but that was when I had a huge budget and I decided to go with one of those rediculously expensive NS versions. Oh well.

bump

Well I have a weapons for 5,000 soldier storefront thing. All the guns are based on a game but are comparable to regular weapons. They're mostly Auto Rifles, sniper rifles and explosives though. For urban combat infantry, I suggest supressing fire guns, close range guns, and sniper rifles.

Navy: Brown water navy is good, subs should be a low priority. Depending on how much inland you want to have you navy go, it's a toss up between how many Patrol boats you want compared to how many of the other types.

For an armored division, I suggest a few Main Battle tanks, but remember that a Tank division has many support vehicles, the Tanks are sometimes in the Minority when it comes to them. As others said, Quality over quanity. For a small nation with few trained men, a Tank with a high crew Survival rate would also be good. You don't want to lose the few trained Tank crews you have.

For the navy, we'll offer the following:
6 PG-1 Hampton Roads
2 HEC-1 Patrol (Heavy version)
PG-1 Hampton Roads
Abstract: Named after the site of the battle between the Merrimac and the Monitor, this inexpensive patrol craft is meant for anti-pirate operations. Its speed and armament make it a perfect weapon to ambush pirate nests, while its small size and crew requirement makes it ideal for navies on a budget.

Length: 164.04 feet (50 meters)
Beam: 32.81 feet (10 meters)
Draft: 16.4 feet (5 meters)
Displacement: 500 tons
Speed:
Cruising - 30 knots
Max - 45 knots
Propulsion: Two diesel engines; two shafts, 2,400 shp
Range: 800 nm
Armament: two 76mm guns (forward-mounted; traverse of 60 degrees), two 0.5" machine guns, two 12.75" (324mm) torpedo tubes
Electronics: one AN/SPS-54 Surface Search Radar
Crew: 33
Price: $10 million
HEC-1 Patrol:
Based on the USCG's 378' Hamilton-class cutters, this design is slightly larger. We sell two versions: the basic cutter and the heavy (uparmed and uparmored) cutter. Both come with one rescue helicopter; we provide the HH-65 Dauphin.

Length: 385 feet (117.35 meters)
Beam: 43 feet (13.11 meters)
Draft: 19.75 feet (6.02 meters)
Displacement: 3,250 tons [3,400 tons for Heavy cutter]
Propulsion: 1 GE LM2600 Small Gas Turbine; two shafts, 10,000 shp
Maximum Range: 14,000 Nautical Miles
Speed: 29 knots
Armament: One Mk. 75 76.2mm (3"/62 caliber) Gun, two 25mm Bushmaster cannons, one 20mm Vulcan Phalanx CIWS, two .50" (12.7mm x 99) machine guns [Heavy cutter adds two Mk. 32 324mm triple torpedo tubes with six Mk. 46 ASW torpedoes, 16 VLS cells, and one quadruple Harpoon SSM mount (or one quadruple MM.40 Exocet mount)]
Electronics: 12 Super Rapid Blooming Offboard Chaff launchers; one AN/SPS-40E Air Search Radar; one AN/SPS-73 Surface Search Radar; one AN/WLR-1H Electronic Support Surveillance System; one Mk. 92 Fire Control System [Heavy cutter adds one AN/SQR-19 Towed Array Sonar System, one AN/SLY-2 EW system and one AN/SQQ-89 ASW Integration System]
Aircraft: One rescue helicopter
Armor: (none) [Heavy cutter: 0.1" (2.54mm) RHA steel]
Price: $80 million [Heavy cutter: $145 million; subtract $210,000 to replace Harpoon with Exocet] ((both cutters) add $9 million to replace HH-65 with HH-75)
The price of this package, less a 5% discount due to your low population (under 100 million), is $332,500,000.00 US, which just about wipes out this year's procurement budget for the Navy, but gives you a good start to work with.

weapons for 5,000 soldiers
4850 Uniforms. (In buying Nation's colors)
100 Sniper heavy camo Uniforms
50 Officer Uniforms
3500 Raptor Assault Rifles 3000 Rounds(M-16 clone, 7.62 100 round extended clip)
10,000 HE grenades
500 Vulture Shotguns 1800 shells (Combat shotgun)
250 Locust Rocket Launchers 500 rounds (6 round Dumb fire rocket launcher)
5000 Falcon Pistols 1000 clips
150 Condor Chain Guns or .55 Machine guns 8000 rounds
100 Pierce Sniper Rifles 500 rounds (7.62 Sniper rifle)
250 Kestrel Grenade Launchers 800 Impact Launched Grenades (Revolver type Grenade launcher)
Cost $50 Million

IC: Thank you!
Money wired from the Florintine Naval Bank Account

Admiral G. Hopkins

OOC: Thanks for the advice, I really haven't had a small nation in a long time. It's different not having much to work with. But I have my doubts about brownwater. While it might be good for my bays, inlets, and rivers, there are an awful lot of areas around me that are very stormy. As for submarines, I never liked them anyways. There's really no point for a stealth operation in NS, since everything is out in the open, no matter how "Secret IC" it is.

Edit: Thank you TLA, but I just found my old spreadsheet for my old infantries! That part worked very well in the past, its mostly the mechanized calvary, navy, and airforce I've had trouble with.

I could, if you're interested in striking an IC deal, prodive you with patrol and missile boats. They are capable of opperating in areas like the Medeterranian and Arabian seas, and are relativly cheap.
If you're interested that is.
I'll be setting up a Littoral Shipyard storefront sometime soon too.

Thanks for your business! All of your ships will arrive by the end of 1 NS year.

Ok. I always liked missle boats, they seem to work very well, especially against someone who thinks all they need is a good navy, airforce and a whole lot of tanks.

In such a point, I can offer you your choice here then.
All ships come with weapons and supplies for roughly 6 months opperation. If you want production, or more standard weaponry, then they can easily be modified to accept RL NATO or Warsaw Pact weapons.

Elam Class Fast Attack Boat: (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v322/Dostanuot/Navy/Elam.jpg) - $8,000,000 USD Each
Dimensions:
- Length: 44m
- Width: 8.5m
- Draft: 2.5m
- Displacement: 250 tons
Propulsion:
- Engines: 2x DMED Diesel Engines, 1x DMNE17C Gas Turbines
- Drive System: 2x Water Jets
- Thrust (SHP): 1,800 (Diesel) 18,000 (Gas Turbine)
- Cruising Speed: 28km/h (15 knots)
- Top Speed: 100 km/h (54 knots)
Compliment:
- Officers: 5
- Enlisted: 20
Armament:
- Cannon: 1x 75mm Hyper Velocity
- Missiles: 2x Mk.13 Launcher (8x AIM-417)

--------------------------------------

RMM-12 Large Missile Patrol Vessle: (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v322/Dostanuot/Navy/RMM-12.jpg) - $10,000,000 USD Each
Dimensions:
- Length: 56m
- Width: 10m
- Draft: 3m
- Displacement: 540 tons
Propulsion:
- Engines: 2x DMNE18R Gas Turbines
- Drive System: 2x Water Jets
- Thrust (SHP): 34,000
- Cruising Speed: 63km/h (34 knots)
- Top Speed: 78km/h (42 knots)
Compliment:
- Officers: 10
- Enlisted: 36
Armament:
- Guns: 1x 90mm Hyper Velocity Cannon
- Defence: 2x 30mm CIWS, 4x AIM-97 SAM
- Missiles: 4x AIM-350 ASM

------------------------------------------

RMM-18 Missile Patrol Vessle: (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v322/Dostanuot/Navy/RMM-18.jpg) - $4,000,000 USD Each
Dimensions:
- Length: 38m
- Width: 8m
- Draft: 3m
- Displacement: 250 tons
Propulsion:
- Engines: 2x DMED Diesel Engines
- Drive System: 2x Water Jets
- Thrust (SHP): 8000
- Cruising Speed: 56km/h (30 knots)
- Top Speed: 69km/h (37 knots)
Compliment:
- Officers: 6
- Enlisted: 24
Armament:
- Guns: 2x 30mm Rotary Gatling Cannons
- Missiles: 4x AIM-350 ASM

OOC: Should I assume that the cost of 8 grand for that first boat is a typo? :D

Ok, I'll buy those with tommorows money, because I don't have any money left for the navy this year, but to make it simple I'll get them today. Did that make sense? I hope so.
IC: The Allied States of Florintine would like to purchase 5 Missle patrol vessles, a Large Missle Patrol boat and 20 Fast Attack boats.
Money has been wired tommorow.

Ok, I'll buy those with tommorows money, because I don't have any money left for the navy this year, but to make it simple I'll get them today. Did that make sense? I hope so.
IC: The Allied States of Florintine would like to purchase 5 Missle patrol vessles, a Large Missle Patrol boat and 20 Fast Attack boats.
Money has been wired tommorow.

Alright, enjoy, they're on their way.

And yes, 8 grand was a typo. *Goes and fixes that*

Well back when I was playing in my nation as Kjata Major (used in Tanthan), I really didn't have a big budget or a high population. I cut corners EVERYWHERE on the military and saved billions by doing so. So I had a super-inflated military that cost very little. 100 of my tanks for a single abrams.

Instead of Humvees (which have a tendancy to explode if damaged in the rear due to the gas tank placement) I used Ford trucks with a gatling gun and slapped on some steel plates and fixed the engines to provide more torque. Add some skirts in the front to protect the wheels from gunfire.

Seriously with a small truck with added power WILL be a threat. The US military budget (and all countries) is HORRIBLY inefficent. In a dash for the TOP stuff they use expensive defense contracts when a new nation can not afford it. Don't skip too much on weapons, but skip alot on armor. A missile will destroy a humvee just as well as a truck or a $100 mil F-22. Protect your military vehicles and boats with slabs of steel sheets or whatever.

Make your own weapons and vehicles if possible, let's see:

Ford Excusion 2004 Model: $30,000 (This think is a TANK if you hook up it right)
TOW Launcher x2: $8000
Gatling Gun x2 + 20,000 rounds: $13,000 (use AP bullets)
Scrap metal armor: $500 an inch (or so) (I'd add 5 inches)
RPG-7 + other Tank-Killer weapons: $30,000

For around $90,000 I now have a strong vehicle that can go toe-to-toe with tanks or other ground vehicles. Tanks will have a hard time hitting such a fast vehicle and the armor is pretty thick so bullets (even AP rounds) will have a hard time piercing the armor and then the natural truck frame. The weapons are the most expensive part, but if you can't destroy what your trying to attack what's the point of even trying!? Nice part, the Gat's can be held in the back with the ammo and could be swapped out to carry infrantry or goods. The Tow can be mounted on the top inbetween the gats for extra power. It gets better mileage then a tank or a humvee (though expect all the extra weight to bring it down to about 15-20 mpg, the SPEED is what seals the deal for me. This thing is light fast, pretty agile for the weapons (not as good as a humvee, but would be able to manuever decently or give a good chase).

The same can be done for old russian tanks to make them stronger. Though that is just my take on it for a new nation or a nation with a small budget and a LARGE area to defend.

Use mortars more than towed or self-propelled howitzers, there cheaper, lighter and easier to use, there almost poor-mans artillery. Just put one in the back of a jeep

Holy crap its Tanthan!
Remember me as Ramissle?

Anyways, thats an interesting way at looking at it. But just surviving isn't what I'm trying to do here. I want to get my nation to the semi not really greatness I used to have. SUV's aren't really going to do it for my federal military.

But for the People's Militia that my goverment allows, thats a whole other story. That would be perfect for them, in so many ways. Thank you for the brillient idea.

To provide a few RL examples:

In the 1980s, Chad and Libya went to war over some random strip of desert in Northern Chad. The Libyans were armed with standard Soviet gear, yet they lost to the army of Chad, equipped with Toyota trucks armed with ATGMs.

In the early 1990s, during the Somali civil war, one of the more dangerous weapons used was the 'technical,' a pickup truck fitted with a machine gun.

Finally, to go way back, in 1914, the French army commissioned taxis to transport troops to the front, helping them win the Battle of the Marne. Further, in 1940, the British evacuated 350,000 troops from Dunkirk using both regular navy ships and a fleet of civilian craft, occasionally given machine guns, as troop transports.

Holy crap its Tanthan!
Remember me as Ramissle?

Anyways, thats an interesting way at looking at it. But just surviving isn't what I'm trying to do here. I want to get my nation to the semi not really greatness I used to have. SUV's aren't really going to do it for my federal military.

But for the People's Militia that my goverment allows, thats a whole other story. That would be perfect for them, in so many ways. Thank you for the brillient idea.

Omg! I had no idea where you went!

If SUV's won't cut it for the federal military just go all out on that. For the People's Militia (which perfectly suited the type of military Kjata had) it is seriously great. Cause you can transform a regular car into one of these armored beasts in just minutes if you decide to have latches for the stuff. Armor can be added like clothes on a person if you have it pre-fitted. The gats only need a steel support in the back cabin to reduce strain on the roof from the power. My trucks had two 50 caliber machine guns in the front by the radiator which the driver controlled by a modified wiring of the headlights. Switch 1 is lights, flip the switch and the circuit changed to a rigged up gun which fired about 100 rounds total (whatever bananna clip you used). If a 100 bullets won't take care whatever you come across in any every day situation what will?

I wish I could make a new nation and play with yours again! FT has been rough, Jenrak is still not replying to the thread we just started. Getting bored.

You always could come to my continent Irathria with a new nation. It should be pretty good, better than my last time I tried it. I really need more people there, and theres tons of space left. And there should be some real good RPs there.

Anyways, I think I'm all set. I found my old infantry thing, got the navy set for now, and the airforce I got some ideas coming up anyways. Thanks for the help!

Sure. I'll start work on it after I finish up my homework. ^-^

I am reading this and it's is still not clicking for me.

I thought a miltary is on auto-pilot.

But I am new. so,:confused:

Lemme guess, you've been playing the actual game for awhile, stumbled on the forums, and now your completly confused? Well, let me explain.

In the actual game, there is no military. You just make political decisions. But here, on the forums, its a little bit different. You make decisions by roleplaying, and doing various things a real country would do. The thing is, on the forums we tend to have war a bit more than a real country would. My suggestion for you? Read the stickies at the top, and find out what this forum is all about.

My suggestion for all of your military is to build your own stuff, I have found that it makes things a lot easier especially if you plan on Rping FT as well as MT because there isn't conflicting statistics, whatever your specs are, that is what the weapon does. I am currently converting my entire military over to stuff I created myself, granted most of it is based on RL stuff but eventually all of the designs will be original ones. Anyway, this post was really about your airforce not what I do with my nation's military. I would suggest going with an aircraft like the SU-47 as your primary fighter. It's not as fast as say the F-22 or the F-35 but it more than makes up for it in maneuverability and you can always alter the design and put in some engines that will give it a higher speed if Mach 1.6 isn't fast enough for you.