NationStates Jolt Archive

The year is 280 BC, and there are several rising nations looking to make a name for themselves. The foremost of the new powers is Carthage, or perhaps Rome. These two competing nations have worries besides each other, as although the kingdom of Macedonia has begun to decline it may yet rise again. There are many other nations such as the powerful Gaulic tribes, and the former glory of Greece, which might also pose a threat to all three of these powers. Only time will tell...

Rome would like to extend an offer of military protection to Iberia in exchange for mining rights to some of your iron. We look forward to your reply.

We would rather not give up the rights to mine our own iron. We would, however, regularly trade iron we mine for military protection and an alliance.

If you will trade it at a price roughly equal to the costs of mining, shipping, etc, then it is a deal.

Deal then.

King Antigonus II Gonatas has announced that he is to host the Royal funeral of the Macedonian-Epirot King Pyrrhus on the first day of spring in Corinth. The festivities are a tribute to the great King and powerful opponent of Greeks, Macedonians and Romans alike who was greatly respected. The King was killed attacking Argos by an alliance of Macedonians and Spartans, and these festivities will help bring together those allies who won the battle.

The Aetolians and other Acheans are also invited as well as the Romans as King Antigonus hope to foster better relations with each nation. The festivities are to conclude with the beginning of the Olympic games which Antigonus' own son will be racing in.

In addition, Antigonus announces that as soon as the summer season arrives, his army will be marching into Epirus to occupy the land of the king he has defeated. He calls for the successor of Pyrrhus, Alexander II, to lay down his arms and receive a vaunted position in the Macedonian court.

Meanwhile, in the steppes of Mongolia, the Hunic Tribes are united by a new, great leader, Raitius the Hun. The Huns are, at this time, content with the land of Mongolia, but eventually, conditions will become unfavorable. They will march on other nations and try to gain new lands.

OOC- I assume we are using an alternate history, right?

Rome appreciates the gesture and assures that several of its senators shall be attending.

OOC: Of course, but don't expect to arrive at the gates of Rome in fifty years.

OOC- Of course I won't be at Rome in fifty years, I plan to do many other things before I even reach Rome.

The King of the Iberian tribesmen demands that Carthage withdraw from the Iberian peninsula. Failure to do so will result in our disfavor and possibly open hostilities. Do not take this as a light threat, we have allies and we will use every resource at our disposal to remove you from our homeland. We await your reply.

OOC: I don't know if anyone has Carthage yet....:D

The Strategos(leader) of the Aetolian League has announced that he will attend the Royal Funeral hosted by King Antigonus. Several members of the inner council will also be attending and there is talk of a possible alliance with Macedon. Top athletes will also be there attending the Olympic Games.

Also, the League will be extending its hegemony over the northern part of the Peloponnese Peninsula around Corinth(basically they'll be protectorates). The League has called on these states to accept their hegemony peacefully, but in case they don't accept, the League is calling on its on member states to start mustering the troops.

Rome demands that the Senons withdraw north of the Po. If you do not there will be consequences.

how are we supposed to deal with the non-players in this situtaion, such as I am to occupy Epirus, but if there was a response from them, as there was in real life should I just rp that? Or if I invaded Asia Minor, for instance, how would we do that? a non-involved player?

Carthage refuses to move from the Iberian peninsula unless proper reasons can be brought as to why we should give up one of our premier colonies.

OOC: Have someone else rp them for you. I would be willing to do it. Give me a good enough reason why they would accept your demand and I will have them do it. If you can't give me a good enough reason (which seems likely, considering that it would be unusual for a king to give up his throne without a fight) then I will rp their side of the fight. You would of course have to provide me with information on their current military and economic situation if such a fight were to occur.

ok, well, trying to piece together info, which isn't easy, heres my synopsis:

Antigonus was the Macedonian King before he was defeated by Pyrrhus, has regained his title. Since he just got the crown back, he still is organizing his kingdom, but he does have the Macedonian army, which has recently killed Pyrrhus at Argos.

Alexander II historically took his father's place as king of Epirus, and actually defeated the Macedonians for some time before he was finally driven out and Macedonia took Epirus.

Armies: both Macedonian and Epirot armies are similar, composed of phalanx with slinger and archers as auxiliaries and small contingents of cavalry and even some war elephants. The Epirot army is more experienced than the Macedonian, but not extremely, while the Macedonian army is flush off victory, the Epirot Army just lost their king and suffered a major defeat. The Macedonian army is larger and has more allies, but their king is no tactical mastermind.

Macedon offers Alexander governship of the province of Western Thrace if he allows the Macedonians to take over. His army is wounded and disheartened and smaller. It is up to him (Elite Battle...)

The states of the Northern Peloponnese(Achaean League) have turned down the Aetolian League's request that they become protectorates, and therefore the League's army prepares to march. Sparta has promised its support against the Achaeans and these extra soldiers should help.
(OOC: i'm not that sure how good the army of these states would be, but from what i've gathered the League would probably win, though after a long and hard fight. also i think i'd have sparta's support as they were enemies of the Achaean League a little later on.)

Also, the League offers support to King Antigonus of Macedon in his war against the kingdom of Epirot.

OOC: I will agree that Sparta will support you on the grounds that they would divide the spoils fairly. As for Epirus, I think Alexander might prefer a counterproposal such as becoming a protectorate/client state. I don't know, it depends on how much smaller his army is, and how important a province is Western Thrace? He would want to be in a situation where he had a chance for advancement. For example, if WT is important enough, in the event of your death (with no proper heir) he will stand a good chance at taking your place.

King Antigonus II Gonatas is willing to support the Aetolian league in their fight against the Achaean League but will not be able to join the fight until the region of Epirus is occupied. The King thanks the Aetolians for whatever help they send to aid his army. His army is currently north of Thessaly and preparing to march into Epirus, hopefully in a rapid campaign so it can return back to Attica.

The King asks one favor, that as a prize for this war that the Macedonian Kingdom may claim and capture the city of Thebes, long an enemy of Macedon and not a part of the Achean League

OOC: Weyl, Antigonus already has an heir. Western Thrace is -fairly- prosperous, but has big opportunities as it is near Byzantium and the link to Asia and the Black Sea (which would have to be conquered). It is probably a better territory than Epirus, but would make him something like a duke instead of a king, with the lessened powers.

The Macedonian army was always bigger and now is much bigger. The Epirots won battles before this due to their tactical military skills, some genius

If he is not up for a dukedom, he must become at least a client - up to your answer

OOC: I think he would go for being a client. (I am assuming that as a client he would remain in control of Epirus as opposed to taking WT?)

agreed

Alexander II will be the client king of Epirus and half of his army will be incorporated into the army of Macedon . An annual tribute and homage will be given as well.

A portion of the Macedonian army is being garrisoned in Atara while the rest of the combined army is being sent south to rendezvous with Aetolian troops somewhere around Delphi, unless those troops have already left for Achaea.

Rome demands that the Senons withdraw north of the Po. If you do not there will be consequences.


We are insulted that you would even consider that we would give up our homeland. Our great nation shall never bend to your perverted will.

Messengers to all Celtic Druids:
We have been threatened by Rome. We request that a unified Celtic army is raised again to crush this arrogant civilisation.

Specificaly to the Celtibereans:
We are aware of your recent problems with Carthage, and urge you to come to a reasonable agreement. Carthage has always been our ally and this is not the time to change that, as war with Rome approaches us. But, if it comes to war with Carthage, be assured that you will have all the support we can give.

To Carthage:
We are on the verge of war with Rome! Shall we fight together again, that this time we may crush them once and for all?

OOC: I'll have a proposal with regards to the greeks too

The Huns are leaving Asia, as conditions are unfavorable. Any nation that opposes us will be given two choices- give in to our demands, or be destroyed.

OOC-Does anyone have Hungary or any other region around it?

To Macedon:
Advance elements of the Aetolian Army have already left, but the rest will wait for the Macedonian Army. Also, you may have Thebes as the Aetolian League is after the Achaean League. The Spartans will receive part of southern Achaea for their support.

OOC: The SW of Hungary is Celtic. Romania is Dacian. Further north is just small tribes. (maybe Germanic?) I'm not really sure.

OOC: Hey, I have an idea, maybe Breitenburg should sorta be two civs. He can be the Huns and keep us posted on their migrations, but meanwhile take over someone immidiately important, like the Seleucids, Egyptians or Gauls - or something.

That would make things move faster and he could take back over the Huns whenever they hit major resistance or appeared onto the scene

IC: Macedonian troops have reached Delphi and are prepared to strike wherever the Aetolian army is most in need

The men are dressed in their finest, proud to march off to war. They trudge through the green fields of Greece in summer, the astonished glances of people in the fields making the heat more bearable. The battle season in Greece has been long these last few years and the soldiers have seen much of war, in many different lands and with many kings. Yet they now have a king they trust, and somehow they believe that Alexander's legacy can be resurrected. No matter their thoughts, they march into the field, on to destiny and tales to be told of their valour in Greece for ever on.

To Carthage: Iberia is our homeland, and we feel threatened by your presence there. We ask again, will you withdraw?

I don't know if anyone is rping the achean league, and thebes?

Carthage will not withdraw from Iberia for the fears of inhabitants. Our colonies are for the defense of the homeland, and shall not invade further into the penisula. Therefore we shall not abandon our current colony, nor shall we send an army into the deeper stretches. The status quo is what we support.

Rome has been at war with Carthage before, and we currently at this time are not prepared for war with Rome. Our fleets remains sluggish at best, our soldiers are made of mercenaries from all over the continent. We wish to state that we wish to build our economy and army before we should ever spar with rome.

(OOC: Anyone got a map?)

Rome has raised two armies to deal with the Senons. The first, 56k strong, consists of 17k principes, 17k hastatii, 8k triarii, 8k velites, 6k light cavalry, 15 onagers, and 50 ballistae. The second, 40k strong, consists of 10k principes, 10k hastatii, 5k triarii, 5k velites, 5k light cavlary, 5k cavalry javelineers, and 25 onagers. The armies are both marching north from near Rome to meet the Senon threat.

OOC: I like Titicus' plan. You should pick someone else in the mean time.

The Carthaginian Economy will now raise a bounty for any hoplite soldiers to be recruited for our Iberian colonies. The asking price is regular Carthiginian Mercenary pay along with any plunder taken. At this time you are expected for the protection of our colonies.

Another project shall be to build a fleet of 60 ships in order to protect the home state, these ships shall be commanded and fought with Carthaginian sailors. The home state will not be protected by mercenary troops.

Rome would like to extend an offer of alliance to Macedonia. Our nations are much more similar to each other than to the Senons. Together we can push them and there allies out of our spheres of influence.

OOC: Titicus, no one is playing The Achean League or Thebes.

OOC- Okay, I'll be some one else for now. Name a nation you want me to be, I really don't care who it is.

IC-The Huns have finally left Asia. They are heading West. As of now, they have just stopped near the borders of Asia Minor and Europe, and will stay there for a small amount of time.

Rome has raised two armies to deal with the Senons. The first, 56k strong, consists of 17k principes, 17k hastatii, 8k triarii, 8k velites, 6k light cavalry, 15 onagers, and 50 ballistae. The second, 40k strong, consists of 10k principes, 10k hastatii, 5k triarii, 5k velites, 5k light cavlary, 5k cavalry javelineers, and 25 onagers. The armies are both marching north from near Rome to meet the Senon threat.



OOC: Are you sure those figures are realistic? 40000 men max is what i'm getting for Rome... but as I can't find sennon figures, I'll go allong with you. (and you're training raising your army, you haven't sent it out yet.


As a response, the main Senon army (8 000 swordsmen, 8 000 cavalry, 4 000 spearmen, and 4 000 auxilaries) is sent down to a camp on the plain below Sarsina. 16 000 more soldiers (12 000 spearmen and 4 000 auxilaries) are meanwhile recruited and gathered around Bologna.

The Ligurians, meanwhile, threatened by Rome's agresive moves towards cisalpine gaul have brought an army of 20 000 men (8 000 swordsmen, 8 000 cavalry, and 4 000 auxilaries) to La Spezia. They also start preparing 12 000 spearmen to be sent there as well.

The Venetes are also threatened, and send 4 000 swordsmen, 8 000 cavalry and 4 000 auxilaries towards Bologna. They prepare 4 000 swordsmen, 8 000 auxilaries, and 4 000 spearmen in Padua.

Other Celtic armies are also forming, numbering 20 000 and mainly based on spearmen, but their arrival will be belated by distance.

OOC: 124 thousand I think. Plus the Gauls. Remember that, being barbarian, I should outnumber rome by a fair margin.

Celtiberians are also Celts, West Corinthia, just so you know. I haven't counted what you might want to send.

Breitenburg: might I suggest a Celtic tribe?

OOC: I don't have any alliance with the Iberians - I am the Macedonians

And you should play as the Egyptians, Seleucids, or Acheans, in my opinion (though the last might be too hard as they are being attacked).

There is a map on the previous forum for this rp

IC: Macedon is currently occupied with pressing matter including reorganization of the kingdom and incorporation of new territories to go with the current war and is in no position to make alliances or travel overseas at this time. In addition, the Senonian allies, the Gauls recently attacked here and the kingdom is not willing to chance another such attack, at least for some time.

The Macedonian Army north of Thebes and Delphi numbers some 48,000 - mainly hoplites, but with a contingent of 8,000 cavalry and some mercenary archers. Also, 17,000 men are garrisoned across Macedonia and Epirus

To Macedon: Your soldiers are well known for their bravery and training, we would like to recruit any that may wish to join the Carthiginian Army for pay.

OOC: I have to believe that both sides are using too large of figures. The Roman army, given enough time, could reach large numbers, but that would be huge and unwieldy for the legions and most armies were smaller. And If I am counting right, the Celts are assembling an army of about 200,000? That is too large, especially since all of the tribes probably wouldn't ally.

Hannibal and Rome fought at Cannae with the the Carthiginians having 50k and the Romans 60k. Alexander's army just 60 years earlier never went over 100k.

IC: The Macedonian army may be willing to send some of its troops to Carthage, but wishes to know what it will be returned?

In addition, the Senonian allies, the Gauls recently attacked here and the kingdom is not willing to chance another such attack, at least for some time.


True, and so you witnessed first hand the power of the Celts. I am now offering an alliance. If you are still uninterested, then we express our sincere regrets and wish you well in your war.

They would all ally, but they're not all sending their full forces. And this is just about all of Central-Western Europe we're talking about. Though I agree the numbers are too high for both, as I said in my original post, so we should both lower them. I would however have many more soldiers just because of being a bellistic barbarian nation, while Rome is semi-decadent.

The Macedonian kingdom choses not to get involved in this war at this time.

OOC: Rome is not decadent, it is just starting to rise to power. Your armies would be bigger. I think a fair split would be some 70 or 80 k for Rome, and maybe 120-130 for the Celts

OOC: Lower your total to 100k or so. My new numbers will be: first army; 12k principes, 12k hastatii, 6k triarii, 6k velites, 6k light cavalry, 12 onagers, and 40 ballistae. Second army; 8k principes, 8k hastatii, 4k triarii, 4k velites, 4k light cavalry, 4k javelin cavalry, and 20 onagers.

IC- The Huns are now moving into Northern Hungary. Any tribes there can either become members of the Hunnic Empire, or be destroyed. You have been given a choice. Make your answer now.

OOC- One, can I play as the Gauls? Two, will some one tell me what Hungary was called back in those days? Three, will someone play as the tribes in Northern Hungary that I intend to attack? Thanks.

The Aetolian League army numbers about 40,000 men mainly hoplites with some archers.
To Titicus:
Advance elements of the Aetolian and Achean armies have met near Corinth and skirmished, but for the time being have withdrawn. The rest of the army will be arriving there soon, so that is where your help would be appreciated.

OOC: if someone wants to rp the Achaeans for the duration of this battle/war it would be appreciated.

To Breitenburg:
I'm pretty sure Hungary was called Dacia. here's a map:http://www.unrv.com/provinces/dacia-map.php

OOC: Celtiberians are also Celts, West Corinthia, just so you know. I haven't counted what you might want to send.

OOC: If you're talking about sending troops against Rome, out of the question;) I may even be forced to defend them if they need me.

IC: Iberia dispatches messengers to Rome. They offer to step up iron production to export to Rome if they will send commanders and armorers to train and better equip the Iberian army. Right now we are only slightly above the level of other barbarians, but we wish to widen the gap.

Rome accepts the latest proposal of the Iberians.

OOC: You can be in control of several Gaulic tribes, but you are going to have to make a decision. That is, are you going to send troops (and how many) to support the Senons?

OOC-Thanks for the map, the Huns are in the Northern part of that ara, will someone RP as the natives there in a battle or do I just take it over without fighting?

IC-To the Senons, We, the people of Gaul, will send aid to you against Rome. They have angered us in the past, and we seek vengence. We will send 5k swordsmen, 5k skirmishers(spear thrower with short sword and small shield) and 2k horsemen. These will have to do until more can be mustered.

OOC: hm, the Huns just arrived on the scene 600 years before they did in real life, I dunno if this works.

IC: The Macedonian Army, some 50,000 strong has crossed the Straits and is now near Argos.

OOC: I have to agree, the Huns are moving a little too fast. Also, if that is all Gaul sends the Senons will get bulldozed.

I edited my original numbers. Are these better?

To Iberia: Traitors!
OOC: Your religious/judicial leaders, the druids, go to Gaul once a year to meet up with all the other Druids (not all of them, but at least 25% will go). By helping Rome, you're probably angering your entire religious and judicial system...

To Gaul: We thank you for the aid you have been willing to send us, and urge you to send more. (What I call auxilaries are what you call skirmishers btw)

To Carthage: From the Ligurians: We would like ask that our navy may be allowed to use your colonies in Sardaigna as a naval base.


OOC: Go ahead Rome, send forth your armies. (be precise, not just North)

OOC-Don't wory, the Huns are stopping there for a good long amount of time.

IC-To the Senons, we have mustered enough men to give you 15k swordsmen, 15k skirmishers(auxilaries) and 8k horsemen. We hope this is enough, and if we can send more we will.(OOC Note- these figures include original troops) I advise you not to use these warriors in frontline battles. Rather, uses them to ambush Rome in forests of other areas hard to march in.

OOC: what should i do about the fighting the Achaeans, since no one is rping them? with macedon and sparta helping me i'd probably win, but i'm not to sure how strong the Achaeans are.

Why certaitinly you may use our ports to hold your navy. However, due to the risk that it may incite Roman "justice" we ask for monotary compensation.

TO Macedon: In relation to each soldier that is sent, we are willing to compensate with 500 drakma's per ech soldier for a time of 3 months. Plunder and success shall allow for such continuation. We also offer citizienship to any soldiers who wish it.

OOC: I'll allow you to have the 140k, but that must include all the troops Gaul sent you; and if you lose these troops it will be some time before you can raise any more. I would get more specific about where my troops are going, but I don't know. Could you find a map of Senon cities?

No Taxes, I will be the Acheans if you can figure out what their military strength/composition was.

Can't find a map, here's a description, the modern names are in brackets:

The main Sennon cities are:
-Reggio [Reggio]
-Sesto Calende [Como]
-Verona [Verona]

captured ex-etruscan towns:
-Bologna [Bologna]
-Spina [Po delta]

-there is a fortified town of importance called Sarsina on a mountain pass West of San Marino [Sarsina]

-La Spezia is the main Ligurian city in the area.

-Venetes have Padua as their main city.


Carthage, we will consider your proposition when it becomes necessary. In the meantime, we encourage you to maintain the treacherous Celtiberians in distrust, and possibly help us blockade the Celtiberian trade with Rome.

The Ligurian navy has been placed on patrol between Massilia and Sardaigna. They are instructed to attack any Roman or Celtiberian transport ship, but avoid heavy combat with military vessels.

OOC: Ancona seems to far south to be in Senon control at this time. Apparently the Dorians (who live there) allied with the Romans against you in 295 BC http://www.teatrodellemuse.org/-2-inglese/TEATRO/CITY-OF-AN/index.asp

Hearing news of many mustering armies, the Celtiberians have mobilized their own force. They are being trained by the officers Rome sent and equipped with weapons made by the Roman armorers. We have recruited and trained:
6k Scutarii (our equivalent of Roman princepes)
1k Bull Warriors (more fanatical swordsmen)
12k Iberian Infantry (lighter infantry armed with a sword, round shield, and light armor)
2k Skrimishers (javelins, short sword, shield)
2k Light Cavalry
Untold many other mercanaries.

We take offense to being called traitors and now we will bar any men from going to Gaul to take part in your war. And we shall defend ourselves and our allies accordingly.

OOC: Hmm... possible, but the future fortress of Senigallia, which is just a couple miles further NW was definitely in Senon teritory (just look at the name), so I guess the border would be the Esino River. Ok, that's fine, I'll edit.


West Corinthia, being neutral would have been fine, but you have just effectively declared war on your entire religious and judicial system. Hmm...

At this moment Carthage wishes to show it's freindship and remain neutral. We simply wish to protect our colonies in Iberia from the barbarians there, and nothing further.

OOC: Hmm... possible, but the future fortress of Senigallia, which is just a couple miles further NW was definitely in Senon teritory (just look at the name), so I guess the border would be the Esino River. Ok, that's fine, I'll edit.


West Corinthia, being neutral would have been fine, but you have just effectively declared war on your entire religious and judicial system. Hmm...

We just want to defend ourselves. Druids can still go to Gaul if their intentions are strictly religious and not to fight the Romans. Some may sneak through but they won't be significant. I'm sure the rest will understand our relationship with Rome has forced us to do this. We have to hope they're too honorable to go fight an ally.

As for the conflict, we are still officially neutral. We will not take kindly to our trade being bloackaded however.

OOC: Apparantly you know j**k s**t about the Celts. I posted a summary of Celtic history on the OOC thread.

OOC: From what I can find (wikipedia, other stuff), the Achaean League and Aetolian leagues were bitter enemies and since their founding had fought each other. The Aetolian League allied with Sparta, but the Achaean League was strong enough to hold those two off, barely. Then the Spartans asked the Macedonians to help and the Macedonian army arrived and destroyed the league, capturing the capital at Corinth.

All sides have similar armies, hoplites aided by archers and light cavalry. The Achaean and Aetolians are similar structurally while Sparta and Macedon have much more organized and experienced armies, but Sparta is fairly small.

OOC: Apparantly you know j**k s**t about the Celts. I posted a summary of Celtic history on the OOC thread.

The Phoenicians established their first colony on the Iberian Peninsula in 1,100 B.C. and probably made contact with Iberians then or shortly thereafter. The Iberians learned writing from the Phoenicians and developed a system for recording their own language. Later, the Iberians incorporated elements of the Greek alphabet into their writing system. The Celts arrived in Spain in two waves in the early first millennium B.C. The Celtic culture dominated the Northern and Western Spain while the Iberians held the South. In the center, Celtic and Iberian culture mixed to produce the Celtiberians. This group, which fused both cultures, spread to the Eastern coast of Spain.

OOC: So you see we aren't pure Celts.

The Acheans have raised 30k hopilites, 5k peltasts, 3k archers, and 5k light cavalry. Upon hearing that Macedonia and Sparta were going to be joining against them they quickly marched their army to engage and defeat the Aetolians before help could arrive.

OOC: Assume the Acheans began marching a few days after Macedonia did. Shouldn't someone be rping Sparta? TKT, don't worry, he said he is going to be neutral.

OOC: Ok, my smaller army heads for Sarsina while my larger army heads for Bologna. Both will ravage any town they come across on the way, and avoid heavily forested areas like the plague.

The people of Gaul are insulted by the Celtiberians. We decide who can go into our lands and who can't. You will let the Senons in for their religious matters, or we will declare open war on you. Consider yourself warned.

We have already stated our people can travel for religious purposes. We just don't want our people leaving to join someone else's army. And we never said we would say who can enter your country, just who can leave ours.

We have already stated our people can travel for religious purposes. We just don't want our people leaving to join someone else's army. And we never said we would say who can enter your country, just who can leave ours.

Our mistake. We were and are on the edge due to the threat of war, so we took things the wrong way. Now, however, that if you go and attack the Senons, we might take action.

We assure you if any action is taken it will be in defense.

We assure you if any action is taken it will be in defense.

Excellent. Let's hope no misunderstandings happen again, and our nations enjoy a solid peace.

The Macedonian army is some two or three weeks behind the Aetolians and so will not be able to arrive until then. You guys will haveto survive until then, or win the battle alone

We assure you if any action is taken it will be in defense.

Very well, in that case we respect your decision to remain neutral, though we cannot claim that we are not disappointed to not have a force of bull wariors to assist us. Accept my apologies, I took your rallying of an army as a direct threat to other Celts. However, would it be possible for us to hire some of your soldiers as mercinaries? As such you could avoid direct implication in the comming war. Our blockade between you and Rome shall however continue, as we must prevent them from getting high quality Celtic Iron.

An allied Sennon/Venete/Ligurian force has been assembled to the North of Pistoia, on the road to Bologna, and now sharpen their weapons for the expected battle. It comprises of 8000 Venete swordsman (naked with 80 cm long swords and 140 x 50 cm rectangular shields); 4000 Ligurian Swordsmen (hide armor, 1 m swords, 100 * 60 cm oval shields); 12000 Sennon spearmen (naked with 3 m spears and 100 * 50 cm rectangular shields); 8000 Venete cavalry (pants, 2 m spears, 90 * 50 cm rectangular shields); 8000 Ligurian cavalry (hide armor, 1 m swords, 100 * 60 cm oval shields); 8000 Senon and Ligurian auxilaries (50 * 40 cm rectangular shields, 3 javellins, 50 cm swords); and 8000 Venete auxilaries (50 * 40 cm rectangular shields, 3 javellins, handaxes). They build a 1500 m long 1 m high platform for that the spearman might stand on near the top of the pass. 8000 Sennon cavalry have also been sent across from Sarsina (light bronze armor, 2 m spears, 70 * 50 cm oval shields)

The Sennon army has holed itself up in Sarsina and prepare the defenses. It comprises of 8 000 Sennon swordsmen (naked with 80 cm long swords and 140 x 50 cm rectangular shields); 4 000 Sennon spearmen (naked with 3 m spears and 100 * 50 cm rectangular shields); and 4 000 Sennon auxilaries (50 * 40 cm rectangular shields, 3 javellins, 50 cm swords).

OOC: I'll post where the reinforcement armies are later, but the battles will start before they arrive anyway.

OOC: So you see we aren't pure Celts.

OOC: But the druids did arrive later and thus probably imposed their supremacy...

FYI: Dacia is Romania. No one in particular owns northern Hungary, just indipendant small tribes.

As long as you blockade our trade routes to Rome you will never get your hands on Iberian troops, and we shall continue running the blockades.

The Roman army encounters the Celtic alliance on the road to Bologna. First a palisade is set to protect the artillery which begins firing while the rest of the forces set up a camp. A few scouts are also sent out to find an alternative route. The artillery is concentrated on taking down the center of the 1m high Celtic fortification.

The second Roman army arrives at Sarsina and surrounds it. They then begin to focus their artillery in damaging the fortifications there.

OOC: What are the fortifications at Sarsina? Also, just to make sure you know, javelineers don't have anywhere near the range neccesary to hit even onagers much less ballistae.

OOC-Do I RP as the troops I sent to the Senons, or does he?

OOC: That depends on if you want him to win or not. With generals it is the same as cooks, too many spoil the broth/battle. I mean presumably the troops you have would have their own commander, but once you meet up with his troops your commander would become subordinate to his.

The Acheans have raised 30k hopilites, 5k peltasts, 3k archers, and 5k light cavalry. Upon hearing that Macedonia and Sparta were going to be joining against them they quickly marched their army to engage and defeat the Aetolians before help could arrive.

OOC: Assume the Acheans began marching a few days after Macedonia did. Shouldn't someone be rping Sparta? TKT, don't worry, he said he is going to be neutral.
OOC: From what i've found the Aetolians and Achaeans would have had comparable armies, so i think the Aetolians would be able to hold off or at least not get defeated by the Achaeans, although i think they would need the Macedonians and Spartans to win.

IC: When the lead parts of the Aetolian army saw the Achaeans, they were surprised and easily driven off by the Achaeans. Although, luckily the whole army had not yet gathered. The survivors of the skirmish fled back to the main part of the army with the news, and upon hearing it the commanders decided to stop and set up camp to wait for the Macedonians and Spartans. They also sent out scouts to watch for the Achaeans, and begin to set up basic fortifications. Messengers were sent to the Macedonians and Spartans to ask them if they could come with haste.

OOC: To Elite Battle Hordes: Does this sound plausible to you?

Carthage sends about 4k mercenaries to bolster the 6k already in the colonies of Iberia. Attempting to raise more in the colonies itself to protect those holed in the fortresses.

Naval fleet of 120 Triremes to protect coast from hostile intent. Mercenaries from outer reaches of Carthage to be raised. Prospective army of around 50k men. Total time alloted, unknown.

Iberia has begun construction of blockade running ships. These ships are fast enough to escape most heavy vessels but therefore can only carry limited amounts of goods. We are also building up our navy. If we have to we shall try to break the blockade on our ports. We ask the Senons to lift these blockades peacefully to avoid an unnecessary naval confrontation. Our position in the war remains neutral, therefore a blockade only grants you our disfavor.

The inner council of the Aetolian League has voted to began the construction of a navy to defend the League's interests. It will start out with many small, fast ships and be mainly based in the Aegean Sea, but there are long term plans for bigger ships. Any expertise about shipbuilding that another kingdom would be willing to offer in exchange for something else would be appreciated.

OOC: i know that Aetolians were thought of as pirates, so they should have some shipbuilding knowledge and ships already.

OOC: you have to remember that tribes such as the Sennons and Iberians had little naval strength as they were mainly inland empires. The Romans didn't have much of a navy now either.

IC: King Antigonus Gonatas is prepared to release one phalanx to Carthage on the conditions that a direct payment appropriate be given to Macedon and that it be used properly as a hoplite should. This force of 8,000 men is a powerful force and the soldiers will be payed as you have prescribed, taking home plunder as well and shall be returned in some 5 years after the contract expires.

The Macedonian Army now numbering some 54,000 men has passed Athens on its way to the Peloponessus

OOC: No Taxes, the Achean forces should have no problem engaging you before the Macedonians or Spartans arrive. We will rp that out and see what happens. I agree with Titicus that the Iberians and Senons should not have much of a navy (they are both welcome to try to build one though), and although the Romans don't have much of a navy at this time it should still surpass anything the Senons can muster.

OOC: I agree with Titicus that the Iberians and Senons should not have much of a navy (they are both welcome to try to build one though)

OOC: Exactly. I doubted I would have much of a navy to start but now that I'm being blockaded I think now is as good a time as any to build one.

To The Senons- We have already supplied you with troops, but we will be willing to build you siege weapons as well. However, these will cost you. We can build you onagers and ballistae.

OOC:
The Roman army encounters the Celtic alliance on the road to Bologna. First a palisade is set to protect the artillery which begins firing while the rest of the forces set up a camp. A few scouts are also sent out to find an alternative route. The artillery is concentrated on taking down the center of the 1m high Celtic fortification.

If your artillery got close enough to fire, I would have charged you down. Why would I ever in heaven or earth allow you to build up fortifications that close? :rolleyes: If you're within range, start a new thread for the battle. (get a mod?) And your also trying to cross the Apenines. Their won't be another route for your siege weapons. The rest of your army can go wherether it wants.

Sarsina is originally an important Etruscan fortress. Whatever they would have built, I'll try to find out, but definitely stone walls.

OOC-Do I RP as the troops I sent to the Senons, or does he?

It takes longer to go from Gaul to Bologna then from Rome. You can theoretically control your forces, but you can give me control (plz?). And you decide how they're armed.

OOC: you have to remember that tribes such as the Sennons and Iberians had little naval strength as they were mainly inland empires. The Romans didn't have much of a navy now either.

The Ligurians did have some sort of navy though, but i'm not saying this blockade is likely to be efficient.

To The Senons- We have already supplied you with troops, but we will be willing to build you siege weapons as well. However, these will cost you. We can build you onagers and ballistae.

Since when do the Celts make efficient siege weaponry?

IC:

The 12 000 reinforcements from Liguria are in La Spezia.
The 12 000 reinforcements from Gaul are passing central Liguria.
The 16 000 reinforcements from Vetetzia are in Padua.
The 10 000 reinforcements from Southern Germania are in Sesto Calende
The 10 000 reinforcements from Austria and Illyria are in Padua.

The defenses of Sarsina prepare for siege. The walls are only lightly garrisoned with lookouts as they are being bombarded. The army is placed in wait below the walls, ready to run up the ladders to the walls should the Roman army commit to an assault.

The Ligurians are worried about the buildup of Celtiberian ships and increase their shipright's production. They would like to ask Carthage if they might be able to buy some Triremes.

OOC: I can't do anything until the Aetolians and Acheans fight or avoid fighting for a weeks time or so

Rome could advance his artillery behind his infantry and then set them up while watching out for a counterattack

When, the Aetolian General received word that the Macedonians and Spartans would not arrive for a while, he told the men to prepare for battle since the scouts had spotted the Achaeans. The army was made up of 30k hoplites, 5k peltasts and 5k archers(cavalry were routed in that skirmish earlier)

OOC: To Elite Battle Hordes: I assume that the Achaeans are attacking? also we could probably use a mod for our battle.

OOC: Like Titicus said I advanced my artillery behind my infantry. Sorry, I went so fast with that. You have an opportunity to respond as my infantry advances. I don't want to start new threads for battles though as I think having them here will help keep this thread more active. Titicus, do you want to mod my battles with the Aetolians and Senons?

The Roman forces are advancing as such:

The left wing is made up of 3k hastatii and 3k principes. The center is made up of 3k hastatii, 3k principes, and 400 triarii. The right wing is made up of 6k hastatii, 6k principes, and all 6k velites.
There are 2,800 triarii guarding the flank of each wing, and 3,000 cavalry on the triarii's flanks. The 12 onagers and 40 ballistae are behind the center.

The Acheans form up opposite the Aetolians:

There are six groups of hopilites, each numbering 5,000. The left five are only arranged four lines deep/1,250 long, but the rightmost group is 25 lines deep/200 long. The 5k peltasts are on the left flank, the 5k light cavalry are on the right flank, and the 3k archers are spread out behind the hopilites.

The Aetolian Forces have formed up on a ridge as follows:

The 30k hoplites are split into 10 phalanxes of 3000 men, and 6 are in the center lined up 5 men deep and 600 wide. One is held in reserve behind the line and two are lined up on the left flank 3 men deep and 1000 wide. The last phalanx is on the right flank and is also 3 men deep and 1000 wide. The 5k peltasts are in front(to skirmish) and the archers are spread out behind the phalanxes. The Aetolians are waiting for the Achaeans to attack as the Aetolians have the high ground, and they're the defenders.

OOC: all right, I will moderate.

Roman front: The Sennons are defending the walls of their fort as the Romans advance, firing artillery - I believe.

Greek front: Someone has to attack. The Aetolian line is longer and thinner and the Achean line is thicker and shorter, weighted on the left.

Greek front: Someone has to attack. The Aetolian line is longer and thinner and the Achean line is thicker and shorter, weighted on the left.

OOC: i'm pretty sure it's the other way around as my hoplites are 5 deep and his are 4 deep. Also, the Aetolians aren't going to attack seeing as they hadn't wanted to fight now because they were waiting for the Macedonians and Spartans, so the Acheans should attack since they want to fight before reinforcements arrive

ok, well he has a long left and a thick right

The Acheans advance, with the cavalry making swooping around to the right so they can come up behind the Aetolian line. When the hopilites are twenty meters from the Aetolian line they stop, except for those on the right flank. The peltasts continue on to fire on the enemy hopilites from their left flank, while the archers fire into the enemy line.

OOC: I did the math and my line is 6,450 long and his is 6,600 long, so there is no real difference. Some notes; I would expect my cavalry to arrive behind the Aetolian line around the same time my right flank hopilites engage his. Also, my peltasts should do somewhat more damage than normal since they are firing from the side.

OOC: Who said I would defend and let myself be bombarded?

IC:The Allied Celtic army moves in front of their wall as the Roman forces approach.

Auxilaries:

- The 8 000 Sennon and Ligurian auxilaries move forwards againts the right side of the Roman line, to try to attack the ounumbered and outmatched Roman Velites, then toss their javelins at the main lines.

- The 8 000 Venete auxilaries go further left and start pelting the Triarii.


Main Forces:
(From left to right of my line)

- The 8 000 Sennon cavalry move forwards on the left flank of my line to try and take on the Roman Equites.

- The 12 000 Sennon spearmen take the left of the line and start marching towards the main Roman line.

- The 8 000 Venete swordsmen start moving on the right of my line towards the left of the main Roman line, they are to attack in two shortly spaced waves, each of 4 000 men. The first is to disrupt the Roman line, the second to make it waver.

- The 4 000 Ligurian swordsmen are sent as a third wave to break the line.

- The 8 000 Ligurian cavalry are sent to attack between the Triarii and the Equites on the left of the Roman line.

- The 8 000 Venete cavalry are sent to attack the flank of the Equites on the left of the Roman line.

(Remember, for the troops that are naked, the ones with the most to show go in the front)

everyone is attacking the Roman right flank? Isn't that a bit chaotic? and leave your right flank completely unguarded? And Romans are known to have big shields = arrows/spears not as effective. Just some advice.

I'll make that clearer... I am attacking both flanks. I'll reword some of that. Remember, my right = roman left.

I know that arrows and spears are not as effective, but they're still annoying. And 2 800 Triarii getting 24 000 sticks thrown at them would be very annoyed.

Clearer?

Carthage raises 15k more troops as well as about 150 elephants. Sends them to Iberia.

OOC: So, where are those Sennon spearmen heading?

In response to increased Carthaginian military presence on the continent we have mustered another 1k Bull warriors and 5k Scutarii.

yes, clearer

Macedonian troops have entered the Peloponnessus on their way to the battlesite by Corinth (I believe)

To counter the Achean cavalry going around the Aetolian's left flank the phalanx previously held in reserve will move to guard against the cavalry. After skirmishing with the Achean peltasts in front of the hoplites, the Aetolian peltasts moved to the flanks of the line to further harass the Acheans(though obviously not where the cavalry are). The hoplites also begin to engage the Acheans, while the archers still fire arrows at the Achean hoplites, with some shifting to fire at the cavalry.

OOC: Also don't forget that i have more archers than the Acheans so i could put more arrows into the air.

1k of the Achean cavalry heads around the Aetolian reserve force and towards the Aetolian archers.

OOC: Anyway, unless NT does something unexpected this is what probably should happen with our hopilites

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Leuctra

OOC: yes i agree, the only thing that could shake things up would be your 1k of cavalry that got behind me.

Carthage wishes to ask why Iberia raises offensive troops. Carthage sends defensive troops to protect it's colonies from barbarian hordes. Why does Iberia raise troops of offensive capabilities?

ok, NT and EBH - I looked at the battle and after initial contact this is what I think would be happening:

The Achaean cavalry would have problems flanking the Aetolian line due to its sheer length, but if they did they would have to be seperated from the rest of the army by quite a bit. The length of the Aetolian line would mean that the Achaean left would be in serious danger of being turned by the rightmost Aetolian phalanxes. And the Aetolian line would be pushed hard on the left where the Achaeans positioned the most and heaviest of their forces.

OOC: So, where are those Sennon spearmen heading?


Towards your right

We realize Carthage is much more powerful than we are. Raising defensive troops would be a waste, as you could easily overrun us if you chose to.

Does Carthage? Currently a war of immense preportions is brewing on the continent. We might be attacked by Rome, using this as an excuse to attack, or we might even have other nations attempting to harm our colonies. Defense is paramount.

The moment the Sennons begin to advance the Roman velites head right in order to avoid the Sennon and Ligurian auxiliaries, instead intending to protect the Triarii by engaging the Venete auxiliaries. Meanwhile, all 6k of the rightmost hastatii group advance to engage the Sennon and Ligurian auxiliaries. The triarii and Roman cavalry on the right flank head to engage the Sennon cavalry. The 400 triarii and half of the hastatii in the center head left to hit the swordsmen on the flank as they engage the left wing hastatii and principes. The Roman onagers also lend their support to defending against the swordsmen. The cavalry and triarii on the left flank take up a defensive position against the 16k cavalry heading their way and prepare to hold until aid can arrive, with the triarii arranged to take the blunt of the blow. Update: Actually I am going to send my 3k principes and 1 of the 1.5k remaining hastatii from the center to help the triarii and cavalry against the enemy cavalry on the left. Also, I am going to send my 6k principes on the right to attack the 12k Sennon spearmen so they can't aid his cavalry there against my other forces.


OOC: Titicus, since NT doesn't have any cavalry he has no troops that can catch my cavalry, or stop them from flanking his line; especially since the troops on his left are engaged with my hopilites. As for my left being in danger; there is a reason I held them back. He said he is engaging my hopilites, I forgot to respond to that. All the hopilites only four lines deep retreat as his forces advance. They will stop retreating either when he stops following or when they reach flat ground.

I was just saying that if your cavalry wanted to flank him, it would have to separate pretty far from your army.

And so you are attacking on the right and falling back on the left? Forming a sort of upside down "L", right

OOC: Yeah, something like that.

The Sennon and Ligurian auxilaries, once the hastati start moving towards them, move back behind the line of spearmen, then turn and head towards the other side of the battle to attack the troops flanking the swordsmen from behind. The Venete auxilaries engage the aproaching velites head on. The spearmen split: 8 000 of them engage the aproaching hastati while the other 4 000 move to help the swordsmen along with the auxilaries. The cavalry on my right flank try to destroy the cavalry before the arival of reinforcements, while the cavarly on the left flank keeps as mobile as possible, attacking the cavalry while trying to avoid the triarii. The swordsmen are irrationally delighted that they are being attacked because it gives them an opportunity to fight a proper melee battle instead of trying to break a line, so they continue attacking and the third wave turns completely to face the force flanking them.

(I think it's time for Ticitus to decide what's happening)

OOC: I agree, but just let me note that since your spearmen split the 6k principes that where after them will now join the 6k hastatii against your (is it 8k?) spearmen helping the auxiliaries.

Yep, but as it is a battle with spearmen, it will be slow and sluggish (though I will lose it) while the swordsmen one will finish much quicker. Just compare hoplite battles to cavalry battles to see the two extremes.

---------------------------
| Titicus, the floor is yours |
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all right, from what I can get, both sides are atttacking the Roman Right/Sennon Left. Here I believe the superiority of the Roman legion would show along with the roughly equal numbers and artillery. The Sennon forces would be quickly driven back, their left slowly coming apart.

On the other hand, the attack on the Roman left is very powerful in relation to the defenders, who are defending, having some advantage. The Romans did send reinforcements there, but were forced to thin their center.

Status: Romans in better condition, winning on their right, but the Sennons are pushing them back on the left. The Romans need to finish the Sennon left before their own left flank is overrun, which it will if the Sennons commit any more forces there.

Sound good? Tell me about any complaints

OOC: Ok, my understanding of the situation is as follows. On the far right he has 8k cavalry versus my 2.8k triarii and 3k cavalry. On the right he has 8k Venete auxiliaries versus my 6k velites. Also on the right he has 8k spearmen versus my 6k hastatii and 6k principes. Near the center he has 8k Ligurian and Sennon auxiliaries and 4k spearmen versus my 400 triarii and 2k hastatii (I am adding those .5k hastatii who were staying in the center to the battle). On the left he has a total of 12k spearmen versus my 3k hastatii and 3k principes. On the far left he has a total of 16k cavalry versus my 3k cavalry, 2.8k triarii, 1k hastatii and 3k principes.

My analysis: I imagine that on the far right the situation should be roughly equal. On the right his Venete auxiliaries should have a fair advantage, but considering both sides are skirmishers that battle should take some time.
Also on the right; my hastatii should be slightly better than his spearmen, and my principes quite a bit better, add the 4k number advantage and (despite what Keltoi says about spear battles lasting long) this should be fairly quick because I can flank/surround them. Near the center is where he has the greatest advantage, I am going to add my ballista fire to the defense here so I think it should take slightly less time than my battle on the right with the spearmen. On the left is another place he has an advantage, but not as much of one. This battle should take a while, so when he wins in the center the battle here should still be going strong. On the far left should also be about equal, seeing as how the hastatii and principes can also function as spearmen (3m pila).

I didn’t have any problem with your analysis, I just felt like getting really specific.

Ticitus, I agree with your judgement, just remember that the spearmen are not ordinary barbarian wariors, they move forwards in neat lines, and let the legions come at them (Samnite influence). So they wouldn't really be "quickly driven back".

EBH, one or two comments.
-Why would a skirmisher battle neccesarily take a long time? Well, you could defend that, but it wouldn't take as long as a spearman battle.
-You can't flank my spearmen because it would send you into my other troops.
-The center battle is 2 400 vs 12 000. You'd be overrun and my troops would hardly slow their originally planned charge into the left battle.
-The cavalry and Triarii on the far left were hit long before the reinforcements came, so they would have been mostly destroyed before the arival of the hastati and principes. And a pilum is a javelin, not a spear.

well, from what I hear from you guys, you are just wanting to play out things are they are...? At this rate, both flanks (or middle) will collapse and you will both lose half of your armies - then possibly turning your wings to finish each other off in mutual destruction

I have other armies comming in, he doesn't. So, works with me. But, if lines break up and it goes to melee without lines, organization or anything, the Celts would destroy the Romans, as the Roman advantage in their organization.

OOC:
-Well, you have three javelins per aux, that is not enough to take out most of my velites; after that those forces would have to engage in melee.
-I would argue that your focus on my flanks would create some gaps in your lines, especially since your aux have to charge my velites in order to finish them off.
-Well it is true that those troops wouldn’t last long, you have to remember that your aux are crap compared to my troops. Also, flanking would be difficult.
-It is true that the cavalry and triarii were hit before reinforcements came. But since they were defending (their right flank was protected by my other forces) the reinforcement would have arrived before their left was completely overrun. I mistakenly said the pila was 3m, is more like 2, but it was more than light javelin and could be used as a spear.

I doubt either of us would lose half our armies. At most I would expect us to lose half of those where they lose. That is, I should be expected to lose nearly all of my 2k hastatii and 400 triarii, but less than half of the 3k hastatii and 3k principes on the left. He should be expected to lose about half of his 12k spearmen on the right. Once they route only cavalry will be able to really get them. It has hard to hunt down and destroy troops as fast as you are.

Carthaginian Army of Iberia
Total Arms: 25k men

Libyan Infantry: 17k spearmen
Berber Cavalry: 1500 Men
Balearic Slingers: 570 Men
Numidian Archers: 720
Numidian Javelin: 285
Elephants: 150
Numidian Light Cavarly: 3k
Libyan-Phonecian Heavy Calvary: 1k
Local Levies: 925

Current Carthiginian Navy

200 Triremes On Duty

60 Under COnstruction

So I guess neither of you are interested in any more manuevering. So whatdya say we resolve the battle by saying that both flanks collapsed and those troops were driven back, at some 33% casualties. So you are both left with your victorious portions facing each other (exhausted) - some 20,000 for the Romans and 25,000 for the Sennons, plus routing troops.

End battle. Enter reinforcements and second stage.

The Macedonian forces have split and have ambushed Aetolian forces across central Greece while the Aetolian Army is away. Macedonian armies numbering almost 20,000 each have laid siege to the three largest cities in Aetolia, Delphi, Opus, and Larissa. This move is to make sure that Greece remains Macedonian. While the Achaeans and Aetolians fight to a bloody standstill, the Aetolians shall return to a burnt and fallen homeland. Forces have also seized control of the passes in Thermopolyle. King Antigonus Gonatas leads the main force to destroy the Aetolian capital.

OOC: Holy shit. Remind me never to ally with you. Anyway, presumably all his forces on my right, including the cavalry, have routed? In turn, all my forces on my left have also routed? So that leaves me with the remains of my 6k hastatii, 6k principes, 2.8 triarii, 3k cavalry, and 6k velites. And him with the remains of his 12k swordsmen, 4k spearmen, 8k aux, and 16k cavalry? Is that all right? What should the revised (remaining) numbers for each of these groups be?

IC: In light of the recent battle outcome, Rome decides to break with tradition and raise 8k hastatii, 8k principes, 4k triarii, and 8k cavalry from the landless masses.

well, take off 10-15% of the victorious forces, in my opinion (don't want to do the math)

Carthage shall raise 1500 Numidian Archers for defence of the Iberian colonies.

Rome would like to borrow 5k phalangites from Macedonia for one years' time. We will, of course, pay their salaries during this time. This will be beneficial to you as it is burdensome and wasteful to pay soldiers when you do not need them. We will also, however, reimburse you ten years’ pay worth for every soldier that is lost while under our service.

In light of the recent battle between the Romans and the Senons, Gaul has decided to enter the war. Together with the Senons, we believe we can keep Rome out of our lands. Exact army details will come later.

OOC: I was pretty sure you were already at war with Rome. Also, Rome is not in any of your lands.

OOC: I was pretty sure you were already at war with Rome. Also, Rome is not in any of your lands.

OOC- I only supplied the Senons with troops, I was never in the war myself.

Macedon is willing to loan troops to Rome for a short period of time for the proper pay.

Meanwhile, where is no taxes

Rome agrees, and will send over a fleet to transport them.

OOC: I think he quit on the grounds that you owned him.

Then I will finish it myself

The Macedonian Kingdom continues its attacks and by now most cities across central Greece are on the edge of falling with their troops away from home and large armies attacking. The Aetolian League is expected to not exist in a matter of weeks.

Carthage wonders if anyone may wish to communicate between the parties to enable peace?

huh?

Carthage is offering itself as mediator because it seems that war will escalate even more between the powers on the mainland of Europe. That's what I meant.

Greece needs no mediator as Macedon shall soon rule the entire peninsula as it did before and will again. The Macedonian armies shall be the only force in the region. Major cities have fallen across Greece and the King is marching personally on Athens and Thebes, non-alliance cities to end the resistance there. Delphi has fallen.

I think we can agree that the Achaeans defeated the Aetolian army, taking heavy casualties.

OOC: Maybe the Romans want help though

OOC: Where did everyone go? Keltoi, No Taxes, not many people are posting.

OOC: Sorry, I've been really busy lately. Also, I guess my forces were defeated although it doesn't really matter since Macedon stabbed me in the back. I'm not really sure what to do now.

IC: When the remaining Aetolian forces received word about Macedon, they hurried back to their homeland to try and defend it. Though, by then it was too late, and the greatly weakened force had no hope of taking on the Macedonian Army, so the men quickly began to desert, and the small army began to dissolve.

With not much involving them lately, Iberia organizes an athletic event similar to the Olympics, but sporting more "barbarian" sports like drinking and knife fights. All are invited to send athletes.

heh heh heh

Well, I thought you were gone, but yeah, I think you were done anyways.

Macedonian troops are slowly mopping up the remains of the Aetolian League and its few remaining cities and are planning on moving on the rest of the Achaean League, starting with Athens

Greek athletes are pleased that their idea is being expanded upon and will be delighted to play in the games. They hope Gauls can also come to their games whenever

Gallic athletes will come to the games in Iberia and Macedonia. Also, the Gauls have raised an army in their homeland, just in case. The many battles across the continent have made us worry about our homeland's security.

OOC: Well for me it almost seemed that the entire forums got booted.

OOC: No Taxes, if you want to you can take over another nation now. I would suggest the Egyptians, Selucids, or since The Parthians hasn't posted since we started, the Parthians. But whatever you want you can have.

uh, Macedonian forces lay siege to Thebes and Athens? Hope to end the resistance by Greek forces? The world will be ours.....

OOC: Come on, someone start a war or something. I would if I weren't already in one.

Not yet. I am waiting a little bit. WHy attack in force when I have no excuse too at the moment. At least a legitimate one. Or one that appears legitimate. I will soon.

OOC: Come on, someone start a war or something. I would if I weren't already in one.

OOC-If you want I can bring the Huns out off hiding.

OOC: Sorry, I was on holiday, but I'm back now. I've read over everything in the thread and will be posting shortly (tommorow, I don't have time today). Sorry again.

OOC: No, I don't need you to bring them out. I just am hoping for some happenings that will keep everyone interested.

OOC: We could RP out my barbarian olympics.

well, my wars are winding down now. Should I rp the final attack on the Achaean League or does someone want to rp that defense?

Macedonian forces now hold firm control of Northern and Central Greece up the the Peloponnessus along with the cities of Corinth and Argos on the peninsula. Sparta is warned to back down and submit as a puppet.

Soon Macedon will be as large as it was just before Alexander.

OOC: Go ahead and rp the rest yourself. As for the Olympics, sure, why not?

Monster olympics?

The opening ceremonies for the Iberian Olympics will begin in one month. Other nations have that time to send athletes. All civilians are welcome to spectate the games but note we will not tolerate unruly behavior between citizens of warring nations. We want to keep these games civilized. The first event is the drinking contest, followed by the feats of strength.

Carthage has remained at peace and would like to send sportsmen to this event.

Macedonian and Greek athletesw ill participate and in order to arrive in Gaul on time are leaving now by ship to round Italy and reach the location. These are the best athletes from the ancient Greek olympics and expect to do well.

**********************************************

In the Peloponessus, the final battle nears as the Macedonian army, fresh from taking Athens, has nearly reached Sparta where the combined Spartan and Achaean Army awaits. The two armies watch each other across the broad flat field, perfect for phalanx fighting. The proud and powerful Spartan hoplites, 22,000 strong are positioned on the left with the Achaean Army on the right. It is 32,000 strong, a mix of Argives, Corinthians, and others, all mainly equipped with sarissas but a fair number of skirmishers and cavalry.

The Macedonian Army, swelled by recruits numbers some 77,000 men, formed in highly organized, tight rows of phalanxes. The army is weighted on its left, with the majority of a strong cavalry contingent, 6,000 strong also on the left. They move forward to crush the allies and end Greek resistance

Wait a second, I did the maths, and by the outcome we agreed on, I have almost twice as many troops left as Rome does! My troops would head straight into the fray before the Roman army had time to reorganize, and probably rout the entire army. Not back off.

To the King of Carthage:
The Sennons, on behalf of all the Celts, would yet again like to invite Carthage to join our war. Rome is already at its knees in front of us, and will soon be crushed. However, for the completion of the war, we will need your help. First, your siege weaponry will probably be necessary for us to destroy the fortified Roman cities, notably Rome. And after our victory, we wish to destroy Rome once and for all, and for that we will need your help. Our army is temporary, and will soon need to be sent back, so alone, we may be able to burn the city, as some 100 years ago, but it will be rebuilt, as some 100 years ago. Your army is permanent, and your system of government is more adapted at controlling a defeated nation. It would take a very long time for us to impose a druidic system on a nation such as Rome. As such, we would like to offer you Campania and Latium. For the cities that voluntarily allied with Rome, we will decide later what to do with them. The rest of the land will be split up into more Celtic tribes, like Samnium and Etruria, which we will implant druids in.

OOC: Ok anyone else who wants to participate can just say their people are here by now.

IC: The drinking contest begins. All athletes sit at a long table with huge mugs of ale placed before them. Plenty of attendants are present to refill the mugs once the "athletes" down them. The Iberian favorite, a huge man named simply "Maccus," is expected to do well. Drinking is one thing barbarians are universally good at.

OOC: My main army never left the battlefield; I was waiting for you to post as I wasn’t sure if you were planning on continuing the battle or not. Anyway, there is no need to take so much off either force. I would suggest 1/3 off the routing side and 15% off the remaining. This would leave you with something like the following remaining forces: 7k aux, 4k spearmen, another 9k spearmen, and 14k cavalry. I would have 4k velites, 6k hastatii, 6k principes, 2k cavalry, and 2k triarii. To me it looks we are in the same situation as we were in the start of the battle. Of course, you are still welcome to attack. Also, I have my artillery, which upon realizing the battle on the left was lost hurried towards the right. My troops should be able to meet up with the artillery before you can catch them.

As for my second army, they assault Sarsina before any reinforcements can arrive. The 20 onagers rip holes in the defenses and then my 8k hastatii, 8k principes, and 4k triarii attempt to break though while the onagers support them with flaming pitch.

The numbers of the two armies remaining on the battlefield are 34 000 for the Celts and 19 200 for the Romans. The rest are routing on both sides. Before the Romans can reform, the "Wild men from the north", being on average less tired, mainly due to their lack of metal armor in the hot Italian sun, charge at whatever Roman forces they can find.

- the 6 800 Sennon and Ligurian auxilaries take out their swords, and go straight in as light infantry, the odd one with a remaining javelin using it whenever he can.
- the 3 400 Sennon spearmen take the time to reform a line, but charge down eagerly as soon as they can.
- the 10 200 Venete and Ligurian swordsmen charge straight into combat, their huge swords wreaking havoc.
- the 13 600 Ligurian and Venete cavalry charge the flanks of the remaining body, massacering any units that try to move away from the battle to reform and making sweeps at the Roman troops of the main body before moving back to start again.

The routing part of the army arive to the small fortification and collapse in their camp. Upon seeing the battle going well for the Celts, more and more of them want to go back and join in.

OOC: For Sarsina, how are you attacking? Through the holes made by catapults? Ladders? Battering Ram? This town is designed as a front line of defence againts Rome, it has walls.

OOC: Well, the armor makes my men more tired, but I would in exchange have less wounded men. Also, my troops would have time to reform seeing as how you are coming from the opposite side of the battlefield. Unless of course you ran, which would make your troops as tired as mine if not more so. My formation (unless you decide you did run) from left to right: 6k principes, 6k hastatii, 4k velites, 2k triarii, 2k cavalry. My artillery form up behind my principes just as your forces arrive.

As for Sarsina; I am attacking through holes made by onagers. I also have some battering rams, but won’t use them yet. Are the walls wooden? (Barbarians are cheap.)

My force alligns with the cavalry on the left, then the auxilaries, then the swordsmen, then the spearmen; the left flank moving faster. The idea is to sweep the roman army down the slope.

As for Sarsina, as I've said before, it's an Etruscan fortified town. The walls are stone. My spearmen move forward to clog the holes in the walls against the Roman advance. 2 000 of the auxilaries are given 6 javellins each, while the remaining 2 000 wait further back with the swordsmen.

And Celts are not barbarians per se. They have a written language, trade over large distances, a primitive road network, some kind of architecture, vast knowledge of medicinal herbs, exceptional metalurgy, etc.

Carthage finds this continuation of the war despicable and finds Rome guilty of continuisly attempting to degrade peace. Rome should therefore cease all hostilities at this time.

Rome would like to remind Carthage that we did not start nor do we wish to continue this war. We merely made a suggestion that the Sennons withdraw beyond the Po. They were the ones to mobilize armies; Rome is merely protecting herself. We are willing to return to our own lands if the Sennons disband their army.

OOC: I am going to let you attack, Keltoi. As for at Sarsina; Titicus, or someone, will you mod?

Gaul agrees with Carthage, and has finally organized a full army. The army is marching now to aid the Senons. The army consists of 14k Gallic Swordsmen, 13k Warband(Spearman with large shield), 7k Skirmishers 6k Foresters(Spearmen with a bow), 4k Warhounds with handlers, 4k Naked Fanatics, 9k Barbarian Cavalry, and the Warlord's personal guard consisting of 6k Chosen Swordsmen and 3k Elite Barbarian Cavalry. The army is preparing to show Rome the limits of their power. We "barbarians" may not have the technology of you "civilized" Romans, but we a fearless, and a terrifying sight to behold.

To the Senons, where are we needed? Just tell us where to go, and we will march there.

To the Carthaginians, we hope to meet you as allies on the field of war. Your technology and our hordes will crush the Roman forces!

And Celts are not barbarians per se. They have a written language, trade over large distances, a primitive road network, some kind of architecture, vast knowledge of medicinal herbs, exceptional metalurgy, etc.

OOC: If you're not Roman you're a barbarian. Just felt like contributing, it's been awhile.

well, once again both of you have overloaded your flanks, but I think that this time the Romans have the advantage. Reformed and partially on the hill, they are defending the by-now tired yet running Sennon forces. It is my opinion that the Sennon right (Roman left) would be quickly annihilated by the superior Roman forces. While the Sennon and Roman cavalry dueled on the Roman right (Sennon left), the infantry would take the shock and fall back, but not rout. From what I read I think that the Romans would then be in position to completely flank the Sennon army from their left and end the battle.

In Sarsinna, I doubt the Roman abilities to take a heavuly fortified city by storm. The catapults could not do too much damage, but if they did they would only create several smaller holes. To take these gaps would cost the Roman army very heavily. It is better to lay siege to a barbarian (non-Roman) army anyways, they will usually starve quikcly without adequate supplies and unable to send more or attend their crops.

here's a kind of map of the battle:
---------------------------Hill---------------------------


[13 600 Cavalry] -------------Charge------------->_[2 000 Cavalry]
_____________________________________________[2 000 Triarii]
[6 800 Auxillaries] ---------Charge---------->______[4 000 Velites]
[10 200 Swordsmen] -Wait then Charge->__________[6 000 Hastatii]
[3 400 Spearmen] -----Advance----->_____________[6 000 Principes]


--------------------------Valley-------------------------

I'm not charging up the hill. I started the battle up the hill. My wall is up there.

My right flank is fairly evenly matched with the Roman left flank. They might beat me, but after a long fight. As for my the other side... well.

Breitenberg: Send them to La Spezia via Liguria, it's the quickest passage. I don't know where they'll be most useful yet. Probably in the final strike at rome ;). We'll see what the outcome of the current battles works as. And you play RTW don't you.

Sukiaida: Rome did not "suggest" for us to leave, they "demanded". That's an ultimatum if I've ever heard one. Here's the quote:
Originally Posted by Elite Battle Hordes
Rome demands that the Senons withdraw north of the Po. If you do not there will be consequences.
And now that we have gathered an army, they will either die or return home victoriously. We cannot disband them beforehand, even if we would want to.

To Rome: Your constant bullying of your neighbors has not gone unseen. THough we have tried peace, it seems that no side wishes it. We are therefore forced to fight a war with you. To demand that a country leave itself undefended is ludicrious at best. You wish for them to leave themselves open for your invasion. Carthage will not stand for this.

To Sennon: We are on the way to help, unforunitly our navy is all that can help at this moment directly. THe Carthaginian Army of Iberia will have to make a long march towards Rome itself. Please occupy them for as long as possible as we are preparing more armies to come to your aid.

To Gaul: We will be passing by your land. Please give our Army of Iberia safe passage.

To Iberia: We will be marching an army through your land. Our soldiers are under strict orders not to attack or to harm any land in itself. Some minor foraging may occur, with payment enacted to your people in full costs to the food or supplies taken.

To Carthaginian Army: Command to be shifted to Hannibal (The former, not the famous Hannibal, his father. Was alive at this time.) THe army is to then march towards Rome itself in the penninsula and to be conquered. Leave a 2,000 man contingent in Iberia for colonies as well as all your levies.

Carthaginian Army of Iberia moving on Rome (Travel Time 2 to 3 Months)
Total Arms: 23k men

Libyan Infantry: 16k spearmen
Berber Cavalry: 1500 Men
Balearic Slingers: 570 Men
Numidian Archers: 720
Numidian Javelin: 285
Elephants: 150
Numidian Light Cavarly: 2k
Libyan-Phonecian Heavy Calvary: 1k

To Carthage Navy: You will take 50 ships and supply them with an army of 10k Libyan Spearman that have been prepared beforehand. (This is from the standing army as well as the men I had raised.) You will then harrass the Roman navy and bring them out of their harbors. Prepare the other ships for a drawn battle in order to destroy Roman Naval Power.

Rome is defenceless! Attack from the South, take them on two fronts! We still have more troops comming on the north anyway. And bring siege weapons. We don't have any.

I think that the Roman army at the Passo de Collina should have collapsed. But, Titicus is mod, so tell us what happened.

Temporary military access is granted to Carthage for however long their army takes to enter and exit Iberian territory.

OOC: Breitenburg, I agreed could Keltoi have 140k on the grounds that Gaul had sent all available troops to him already. You could raise more troops, but this would require that many of your farms go unattended. If you raise that many troops you will have a really difficult time feeding them, or anyone else for that matter.

Titicus, Keltoi, let me suggest that our flanks collapse simultaneously.

Sukiaida, I didn’t mean that all his forces had to disband, just that his forces lower to peacetime levels. Meaning that his foreign troops would return to their own lands.

OOC: I know that, but I wanted a nice little excuse to go to war and take some property. LALALALALALLA!!! WAR!!! YAY!!!

OOC: Breitenburg, I agreed could Keltoi have 140k on the grounds that Gaul had sent all available troops to him already. You could raise more troops, but this would require that many of your farms go unattended. If you raise that many troops you will have a really difficult time feeding them, or anyone else for that matter.
.

OOC-I only sent Keltoi a certain number of troops, to avoid officially entering the war. Now however, I've decided to jump into the fray with a full army. So prepare yourself, I look foward to facing you in battle.

Rome raises 12k hastatii and 12k principes to add to the 8k hastatii, 8k principes, 4k triarii, and 8k cavalry already being trained.

OOC: Ok, you can say you sent him only a certain amount, but then his 140k must be lowered by about 25k.

Hey, you're recruiting way more toops then Rome did, why can't we. If he can't send me more reinforcements, you can't have your latest additions.

Our agreement about how many troops we could rally extended to both of us. Not just the Celts. And I'll remind you that this is not so long after a Celtic army, without Carthaginian help, overan Rome, so with Carthage to help us, it's fairly logical that you're going to lose.

OOC: Rome has plenty of manpower, it is just a matter of how many men can be in the field at once due to limited supplies. All troops I am raising are only to replace losses. They will not take to the field until some of my current troops are gone.

As for me being beaten by your combined forces: I can protect myself from Carthage with my navy. By the time they arrive coming through Spain (a few months) some of your forces will have to return to their nations. Besides, Rome's greatest advantage was actually in her stubborness, as demonstrated in the second Punic War.

OOC: I think that the Roman Army would triumph in a long battle where their discipline came out and the enemy (Sennons) were tired out. I believe that the Roman equality on their left flank would destroy the Sennon flank, while the Romans held on on their right, eventually flanking the Sennons. But if you guys think another collapsing of the flank makes more sense, go ahead.

IC: Macedon is concerned about the actions of Carthage and are censuring that nation along with withdrawing its Macedonian mercenaries from that army.

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The final battle had come to this. The 72,000 men in tight phalanxes of the Macedonian army stared across the fields of Tarros north of Sparta. The Army was arrayed with longer flanks than the enemy and had weighted the right and placed the 6,000 cavalrymen on the left. The enemy was arrayed in similar formation, hoplites in formation in the center, but the 58,000 men were split in two forces, Spartans on their left, Achaeans on the right.

The battle began with volleys between the Macedonian mercenary skirmishers archers and the enemy Cretan archers. Then the advance was called. The Macedonian right wing attacked first, trying to flank the Spartans who fought valiently. Then, when the battle was fully joined, the Macedonian left wing attacked. The cavalry rode around the field and hit the Achaean from behind. This was all that was needed. The Greek Army could not stand and while the Spartans fought to the death, the battle was lost.

Macedonian casualties amounted to some 12,000 men while up to 30,000 Greeks were killed. Many Greeks were afterwards convinced to join the Macedonian Army as mercenaries.

Soon after, Sparta and Athens surrendered. The war had come to an end and Macedon reigned supreme over Greece.

The Carthaginian Navy of 50 ships sailed from it's harbor beyond the coast, landing without harrassment from any Roman naval ships, (As you never posted naval patrols as I did.) The 10k Libyan spearmen got off the boats on the edge of the Italian border to the north-west of Rome itself. Slowly they started this grand raid against the empire, moving quickly to burn down food stores, and to harrass the Roman army behind it's lines. When a ROman army would present itself, they would disappear into the woods, meeting at an older location to regroup. One long harrassing war of manuever for which the Libyans fought well in when under the correct command.

THe Carthaginian Navy sailed from their landing point towards the boot of Rome's territory. Sailors picked small fishing hamlets around the coast to burn to the ground while sailors clammored back onto their ships, preparing to see the ROman navy bearing down upon their expiditienary force.

The three Macedonian soldiers blinked at the command coming from Macedon. What soldiers did they want to get out of the Carthaginian army? The wholesale recruitment of Macedonian soldiers had never gone through. For all they knew, they're army was filled to the brim with Africans. THey thought about leaving for home themselves, but how much damage could taking a handful of soldiers do to the army now bearing down on Rome, or the one being recruited in Carthage?

A messenger from Iberia has taken great care to come to Rome undetected. In a secret conversation, he tells the Romans, "If you require us, Iberia shall answer your call. We're sure Carthage would leave Rome alone if they found us attacking their Iberian colonies."

OOC: There is a reason I never mentioned any naval patrols; it would be a waste to use them. My navy is not powerful enough to defeat yours in a direct fight.

IC: As soon as the Carthaginian forces land, Rome sends out hired pirates (supplemented by her own navy) to disrupt Carthaginian supplies. The 8k principes recently trained in Rome depart to shadow the Carthaginian army. They transport all food (and burn what they cannot) around the Carthaginian landing site to further deprive them of supplies. They then wait for the 5k phalangites hired from Macedonia, who have just arrived on the east coast of Italy.

Iberia, Rome gracefully accepts your offer.

"Brave Libyan forces. It seems out contigent of naval supplies has been destroyed. COnsidering we are a raiding force, I wonder if we can supply ourselves." The officer spoke to his own men, the group of mercenaries grinning from ear to ear as they heard him speak. Living off the land didn't seem that bad to them. They did it quite often when not filled with a large supply train. The supplies the Carthaginian navy gave them were only a small percentage of their full foodstuffs anyways. WIth 8 thousand troops surrounding them, they didn't feel that bad as the army split into four peices, slipping into and through the gaps the Roman's made. From the sound of it, one of the contigents got caught during the escape, the clash of about 2k Libyan soldiers smashing into the Roman troops seeming to be a loud distraction. Too bad they would probably all die, but in the end it was for the great good of 8k soldiers slipping out of the ROman trap, to pillage and slaughter ROman citiziens.

It probably surprised Rome to here of a marauding group tearing down towns, and killing small garrisons around their northern sector. Carthage constantly wondered why it's navy couldn't get the enemy navy out of Rome. But in the end it didn't matter. Carthage herself remained safe, and their armies were marching to a well harrassed enemy. They just wished that Hannibal could get his army moving fast enough. The army itself was bogged down in the northern expanses of Iberia. The Alps sure did seem to stall things. He might have to return to Iberia when the weather might be warmer. The invasion of italy might have to be put off. Thankfully the Libyan soldiers were causing chaos in the enemies backyard.

More troops were being recruited as Carthage forced it's taxes even more on it's people and neighboring peoples. The only reason that peace was maintained was that more and more mercenaries could be recruited with that money, making many of those who were taxed receive the money directly back by joining the large armies already forming. Carthage herself loved using ROman lands to feed it's army. And with the speed her soldiers held in their very unconventional forms, she thought victory would be sweet. The problem being that slow army stuck at the edge of the Alps. Reports from Hannibal were that he'd encamp himself at the edge of the mountains before attempting it. Damn him for preventing the invasion from accomplishing it's goal. That was 23k men stuck in northern Iberia, doing nothing but waiting.

(Hannibal's father actually was much more caustious and less willing to take risks than his son.)

Upon hearing that the Libyan spearmen managed to get away from the principes Rome abandoned the attack on Sarsina and sent the force south. The missile cavalry separated fromt he rest of the force so they could catch the spearmen with ease.

After much deliberation and discussion by King Antigonus Gonatas and his council, there was agreement that Macedon could no longer stand by and watch this action go unacted upon. The only question was what was Macedon to do and which side to join. But the King had decided. It was better to have a friend in the rising power of the Mediterrannean than be in danger from a powerful alliance that was divying up the Italian peninsula.

King Antigonus sides with Rome and pledges his support to the Republic. Macedonian Armies are mobilizing and the combined Greek fleet is being readied

The raiding soldiers looked towards the army following them. THey gained rather quickly as the Libyans started to head east. They caught up rather easily, but the proble arose again to their location. Northern Italy is filled with hills, and to the east is a mountain range. Not very suitable for cavlary, slingers or not. THe Libyans used the terrain to move slowly, but definetly more surely forward. Manuever and counter manuever as they tried to keep the cavarly in terrain that would be beneficial to them.

THe problem arose in the fact that this meant no attacks into deeper Rome. The flatter ground of southern Italy would definetly leave the Libyan spearmen with a distinct disadvantage. So they prefered to lay waste to Northern Italy while being trailed. Libyan soldiers falling back and falling back, and moving around in areas that cavalry took twice the time, waiting for the enemy horses to be worn out as they relaxed on higher ground.

Carthage kept sending messages to their Iberian force to move forward. But it continued to send reports back of harsh winter Alps, and refusing to move til summer. THe report of the raiding party of 1/4th of the army being destroyed put Carthage on extreme alert. They rushed their secondary anvil with even more flourish, trying to force merchant ships to promise support of an invading army to be shipped. Now news from Greece seemed even more detrimental. SHould they try and broker peace with Macedon? Or attack early to crush their fleet.

The news came to the fleet outside Rome, Macedon was trying to go to war. It seemed rather nasty to the 50 ships waiting for a ROman fleet to come meet them. It seemed boring with little pay. THe huge navy patrolling must be getting larger by now. The admiral of the fleet looking at his wooden vessels bob in the ocean. SHould he do something? THis news was by now a month old. Should he bring his fleet to bear. At least to harrass the enemy fleet? He'd be stuck watching the ROmans. Of course he must stay to keep an eye on the ROman fleet. He sighed, wondering when they'd get glory.

THe 60 new ships floated on the shoreline. Carthiginian sailors looking at their new fleet. Most of them were there for the stable job. Patriotism had nothing to do with it. After all they weren't used to it. But with the rigourous training they were getting, it might seem they'd be better prepared. Besides they would just free up the more exprienced ships to go take care of the Macedonians. Sink the Greek fleets and everything would fall into place.

THe workers of the docks looked in horror as they saw the new orders. 100 more ships to build. THe mobilization of 60 had been exhausting. Now in a rush Carthage was willing to bulk it's fleet even more. And with the look of the army preparing to leave and tear up the European pennisula, it might be of little use.

Second Fleet: You are hereby to watch all fleet actions on the western side. THis request for a return of all mercenaries from Macedon is a coming cloud of more war. We must crush the Greeks quickly so we may concentrate on Rome. If the Greeks refuse to settle, we must crush them as well. Prepare to fight the fleet of the city states of greece. We shall reverse the fate of Salamis.

Rome had been building her fleet at a slow pace for years now. Due to the recent outbreak of war with Carthage naval production was stepped up. Rome currently had fifty five ships in Rome itself, and another dozen in the heel of Italy. Rome also recently recruited nearly two dozen pirate ships. Rome was now ready to launch an attack on the Carthaginian navy. At night the pirates were ordered to surprise attack the Carthaginian fleet and then quickly retreat south around the tip of the Italian peninsula and meet up with the dozen ships already in the heel who would then all meet up with the Macedonian fleet. Meanwhile, the fifty five ships in Rome were to sail to Sardinia with the 8k principes who had been chasing the Libyan spearmen, and the 5k phalangites hired from Macedonia.


OOC: Sukiaida, if it is as you have said, winter, then how are your spearmen living off the land? Presumably you are raiding Roman storehouses. Well, let’s just say I have all of my grain moved to central storehouses that are safe from attack.

After a month the Macedonian Army had been readied. King Antigonus Gonatas grew more and more impatient as his fleet assembled slowly. Many ships straggled in through the month from far corners of the Greek colonies, but too often the ships arriving were in smaller numbers than expected. Sometimes a colony sent no ships. The disparately spread Greek city-states had been apart for too long, though King Antigonus - he would have to bring them back under Macedonian control. But first the war in Italy.

After five weeks, King Antigonus could wait no longer. He arrayed his forces in Corinth and had a grand review, and not since the Asian conquering armies of Alexander had such a sight been seen. The main contingent of tough battle-hardened Macedonians glittered in the sun, their long lines amounting to 43,000 men precisely. To the left in succession stood the 8,000 Theban and 15,000 Spartan mercenaries who had joined the army in search of glory. To their right stood the 18,000 man Athenian contingent, 5,000 Corinthians, 7,000 Argives, 5,000 Aetolians, 6,000 Cretan and 4,000 Lydian mercenaries. The long ranks were an amazing sight, sure to create fear in any enemy. The gold and silver glinted and shone brightly in the early spring air

76,000 thousand infantry, 11,000 cavalry, 3,000 archers, the largest Greek force raised since Alexander was intended for the aid of Rome. All of the rest was to guard Greece from invasion, the majority of this force the Allied Greek forces. The fleet had assembled in the Gulf of Corinth, some 125 ships, the majority transport-oriented. The wind blew softly from the Adriatic,, softening the low rumble of strength and storm brewing.

The ships left Greece sailing west...

After much training and recruiting, the Gallic army is finally ready. We have also managed to make 100 battering rams. They are crude, just a log sharpened at the end, but they take only two men to carry. Also, we have hired 10k German Axeman and 3k Berserkers to add to our forces. These German mercenaries will aid us in our conquest. We are moving down into Italy itself to attack while the Roman army is preoccupied.

(Uhh who said anything about ROman storehouses. There are small hamlets and towns in Northern Italy that are ROman. I am simply wiping out ROman's Northern population by stealing their food and supplies. Aka what I am using for supplies is your people. As in removing your storehouses or not, you only starve your people even more. In the end if you don't take this more seriously, the Northern Italian pennisula is going to lose a large chunk of it's population, and that means less men to incorporate into your army. See the point of how 8k men can be detrimental?)

THe pirate ships smashed into three of the Carthaginian ships, sailors pitched into the sea as the Carthaginian fleet reeled from an attack. Only one ship out of the three stayed afloat, trying despertly to just hang on. THe rest of the fleet turned upon the pirates, a night action being rather confused. The ships were overcaustious, making sure not to attack their own ships. THis meant that most of the pirates escaped, the fleet turning and only able to lock in two of the enemies ships. Of course the entire fleet surrounding those ships ended the lives of the pirates on the remaining ships. Rome was trying a breakout. THe Carthaginian admiral glowered at the night attack, thinking at least he could kill every last sailor on the pirate ships. They had no rights after all.

Of course the Roman fleet's breakout didn't prove as smooth as they wanted. The outer ring of the Carthiginian fleet spotted them at the rims, forcing them to turn about. That meant a harrassing attack on the rear of the enemy column. Carthaginian sailors being way way way (Oh god did the ROman sailor suck) better than their enemy were able to cause extreme chaos in the rear of the line as the majority of the Carthiginian fleet turned.

The Second Carthage fleet of 60 heavy trimes (They were actually some of the biggest triemes ever built) looked oddly as they neared their point of observation. What in the hell was happening? THey were simple sent to observe the Greeks to see if they were sailing out. THey didn't expect a large fleet of ships starting to float towards them in one huge line. THe Carthiginian captains started to spread out into line, their ships preparing for battle formation. It looked rather odd to their admiral, his old age showing as he let out one long sigh. The fleet itself knew what to do, though he let one long and aged smile cross his lips as he saw the heavier ships in the middle. Transports normally looked exactly like merchant vessels. Many time they were merchant vessels pushed into service. The small ships of the fleet seemed to move forward quickly as they reached the fornt, preparing to slip through as the heavier warships took care of the enemy warships. Their sleek forms would destroy the transports, making sure to send the grand army it obviously held into the sea.

Soldiers of the army of Carthage chafed under garrison duty. Merchant ships took forever to make into transports and this left the army of Carthage on their own shores without plunder. It also meant further taxes that Carthage had to spend in relaxation. At least seeing some of the ship builders filled with remorse over another fleet being built made them laugh.

THe LIbyan forces went through another ROman hamelt, tearing it down, killing the men and in many cases raping Roman women as they tore out individual food stores. The Roman government took away the huge government foodstores, leaving many to starve. SO the soldiers simply were more ferocious in towns, stealing personal foodstocks and burning anything they couldn't take with them. It got easier as the principes started to leave, and as the cavalry continued being inaffective in the hilly region.

ok, wait a second - tell me where your point of observation is. I want to know if you are close to my ships, its a big sea.

By the way - 8k men could not depopulate northern Italy. It is too large and that is too small a force. Most cities any larger than a few thousand would have walls which a small force could not breach.

OOC: Yea, like Titicus said, 8k men couldn't do that. Hannibal had way more men than that and he ran around Italy for ten years without depopulating much of it. As for the fleet thing, if your entire fleet went after my pirates then none of them would be able to go after my other ships.

OOC-8K men can't hurt that much, but my army can.

IC- The Gallic army stopped at the first Roman town they encountered in Italy. It was razed to the ground. Similar battles, if they could be called that, followed, with minimal Gallic casualties occuring. No major battles have occured, and the Gauls mostly move unchecked. We hope that Carthage can supply us with siege weapons, in order to take out the heavier fortified towns.

OOC: If you don't mind, I'm backing out of this RP.

IC: The Chief Warlord of Celtiberia has been stricken by an unknown illness. Despite the constant attention of his healers, he is dying. He has written into his will that the territory of Iberia and all it's soldiers will be left to Rome following his death, for he has no heir.

OOC: Hmm, we only have five people left. I hope we don't lose anyone else. If anyone knows anyone who might be interested in joining go ahead and recruit them. Anyway, Breitenburg, what are your troops, total?

(Ok let's do this in order. The pirates. I never chased after the pirates. In order to attack a fleet the pirate ships would have gotten intermingled in with my Carthaginian ships. My ships simply attacked the enemy ships in front of them. Pirates in a stand up fight would be massacred by the Carthaginians. THis was an ambush. That means you attack, get into my sides and then run. My ships attacked as they could, meaning I got the ships that couldn't retreat quickly enough. I enver chased after your ships. So my fleet was still at anchor outside Rome.

Now onto the second part. Sardinia is an island right across from Rome itself. In order to get there, you'd have had to sneak past my fleet waiting at anchor outside your city. Now I'd have to stay out of the cities defenses, so that gives a little manuevering room. But the flanks of the fleet would have noticed the flank of your fleet. Which means a small little skirmish as the ass end of my fleet attacks the ass end of your fleet, and we don't really do much but damage eachother.

Now to the 8k. Does anyone know of any MAJOR northern Italy cities during the Roman era? No. You know why? Cause I am in the Isanzo region. It's mountains. WHy do you think cavalry has been useless against footsoldiers? Cause I am in the hilly region of Roman territory. During the ROman Republic, which is the time period we are in, Rome had very few LARGE WALLED cities. The reason that Hannibal ran around like a maniac was cause his army was supplied by the hundreds of towns. And he was in all of Italy. I am in ONLY Northern Italy. Which at the time had a few towns, and a large population of what we call Freeman Farmers. Old soldiers and their families who got plots of land in Northern Italy. I am raiding and killing this largly unprotected population of Freeman farmers and towns near them. No major cities existed in Northern Italy. Why do you think Hannibal 50 years later had no trouble passing the mountains of Italy after the Alps. No major city happened to be in the way for him to need to seige. So yes 8k of men in Northern Italy can do A LOT of damage. That's why I chose that region. It's the ROman's major weakspot.

whatever.

Sukaida, I don't think you could find my fleet, its a big sea to just locate someone just like that. I am going through the Gulf of Corinth, not around the Peloponessus.

But if you did find me, then warships are going to the front to take the major blows from the Carthaginian ships, then transports are following behind. These transports are going alongside, dropping broad gangplanks and boarding them ship by ship

Can I join this thread?

I am Yugoslavian, so can I be the Thracian/Illyrian tribes?

(Yes it's a big sea. BUt Macedon even with greek help doesn't have many harbors. WHen I am directly headed to the outskirts of htose harbos. 129 ships isn't easy to miss. SO yes I would see your fleet.)

THe large warships were the best targets for the louding ships. The sailors defending their ships against soldiers who weren't used to fighting. THis allowed the lighter ships to ram into the transports that weren't designed for taking combat. Each warship fought despertly against troops that had numbers, but not water fighting on their side. It all came to a single thing, could the Carthaginian warships hold off the enemy warships long enough while the smaller ones sunk transport after transport as they tried to capture the larger ones. In the end transports would sink with enemy infantry being cast into the sea.

OOC: The Andromedan, yes, you can join. You are the Illyrians then.

Ok, I lost three ships and one more was damaged in the escape. Also, I noticed I didn't mention transports, all fifty five ships are warships of different sorts. I don't know the number of transports, however many are required to transport 13k men.

As for your troops in northern Italy, the rest of my forces from Sarsina arrive. They split into three groups; the 8k principes, the 8k hastatii, and the 4k triarii and velites. They all (plus the missile cavalry) come from different directions, surrounding your forces and closing in.

(Well normally your transports wouldn't be on the flanks anyways, so I doubt I would have found them. So yes that works for me. Is anyone in control of Sardinia?)

The Carthaginian fleet took time to get itself in order. THe Roman fleet long gone, the only ROmans those that were picked up by the damaged Carthiginian vessel.

To Rome: The Seripin has taken a few Roman sailors from the sea. We wish to return them home as we can not return on our own ship. We wish to be capable of dropping them off without fear of being captured. I must be harsh in informing you that if we can not return them to Rome, we must return them to the sea as we are incapable of taking care of them.

THe Seripin waited as it attempted to take care of the 20 sailors in its quarters humanly. THe rest of the fleet having picked up it's surviving sailors and gone to chase the ROman fleet.

THe Libyans decided that the central position wasnt that bad. THe surrounding Roman forces closed off the remaining forces as they closed in. THe Libyan forces found the cavalry closing a point on their right rear. Using the pressure, and the fact that cavarly doesn't like pointy sticks, charged full force against the cavalry. 1,527 fell from the missles of the enemy as they tried to fall back before the Libyans smashed into the cavarly line, using the mommentum to push out before the Roman's could close behind them.

OOC- Elite battle hordes, my army is 89k strong.

IC- The Gauls continue to raid Roman towns. Using the supplies we took, we are still going strong. We will still need siege to attack Rome itself, though.

OOC: Um, you control Sardinia. Yes, you may return the forces. And my cavalry would just move to your flanks as you charged and continue to pelt you with javelins until their horses got tired of chasing you. The rest of my forces would follow you, spread out, and surround you again later.

OOC: 89k? That is a way too many. If the Sennons already have 140k... that is just crazy.

OOC- Only 36k of the 140k Sennons were from me. I also waited a long time before actually joining to war. And the macedonians have 90k men. I think 89k is just fine.

OOC: A mass of humanity coming at you adn you move to my flanks. That means the phalanx in which they fight in would just steamroll away into better terrain. While your system has to change which takes time. Ergo I get casualties, and yet escape. Getting an encirclement to change direction is exceedingly hard.

Cheiftan Rodon of Pheonocia has taken power of the Illyrian tribes.
"My people, we have united into the greatest force in the Adriatic. Let our power reign, andor enemies fall. No more will Macedonia control us, we march, To Macedonia!!!"

An experienced army of 70 thousand men marches across modern day Bosnia, to attack the city of Bitola. Along the way towns are ransacked and Macedonian slaves are freed, some join the invading force, and some return to their families.

OCC: Basically, I have rebelled against the declining Macedonian empire, for our freedom. I plan to ally with all people's against the Macedonians.

OCC: the Illyrians are not total barbarians. Most in the attacking force were trained by Macedonian generals, and their forefathers were trained by Alexander the Great and his generals. So this is an experienced fighting force, most, do not use the Phalanx formation. Illyrians fight mostly with Macedonian spear weapons from their horses. Also, because 1/3 of the army is Phenocians from the north, they use bows extensively. So Macedonia will be fighting...
18K of Horsemen
20k of Horse Archers
20k of Infantry forces with assorted weapons (most have pikes with round sheilds, and others have short swords, javelins, long swords, axes, etc.)
12K of Short Bows

Wait, is this the main thread?

:gundge:

Ok, Sukaida, I wonder about how well your tactics would work, but ok. (By the way, I studied the Punic Wars and how Rome defeated Carthage. They did exactly what I did, using gangplanks to board Carthaginian ships and seizing them - and Greeks are better sailors than Romans. That way Rome defeated the Carthaginian navy, ah well)

Anyways, after taking casualties and losing heavily in their heavy warships, the Greek navy runs back to harbour, which was nearby due to the attack developing soon after launch. Some 9,000 troops were lost along with several hundred sailors.

********************************

Hey Andromedan, you might think Macedon is weak, but it just fought and conquered the rest of Greece - it is very much powerful again. And did I mention I am allied with Rome?

In response to the Thessalan declaration of war, all Macedonian forces are ordered to converge on Thebes. Cities under the control o Macedon are ordered to send troops. After casualties and garrisons the army can be reassessed in size. Fresh recruits have bolstered the Macedonian force to 52,000 men, 10,000 Athenians, 12,000 Spartans, 4,000 Argives, 3,000 Corinthians, 6,000 Lydians, 8,000 Thebans, 13,000 Aetolians, 4,000 Colonials.

This army swelled to 112,000 men is to assemble and march north to stop the Thessalian invasion - they are advised to turn back now.

OOC: Ok, I just have to say that everyone's numbers are getting out of hand. The Celts have raised a combined total of 229k and the Macedonians nearly 200k (I think.) The Celts should limit themselves to 180k total and the Macedonians maybe 140k.

IC: The Iberians launch a surprise attack on the Carthaginian army in norther Iberia.

OOC: Titicus, you want to rp the Iberians (who were recently given to me), as I don't know enough about them.

I have 120,000 men. Thats in all of Greece, which is large and densely populated. That number includes forces I leave at home, so my main army is not that big. The army has assembled to march north.

Anyways. Sure Elite. So the Iberians are on Rome's side now, eh?

***************************

With the death of the Iberian King, there was much sadness in Spain, with the end of an era. But the ascent of a new, aggressive king changed much. King Lothar II had decided to join Rome, shocking many subjects, but they silently followed whereever the glory would lead them. The King made an impassioned speech to convince his army into a battle fury and with that the army set out.

The Iberian Army, some 54,000 strong was composed similar to many Celtic Armies with a core of spearmen, some 26,000 men supplemented by 12,000swordsmen, and 8,000 cavalry.

The Army marches south to deal with the Carthaginian colonies along the Mediterannean and strike a blow to the enemy's capabilities and even help recall Carthaginian dirty mercenaries. The first target is Carthago Nova after destroying the coutryside with roving bands.

OOC: I thought you sent like 70k on the transports, and had and other 100+k to send after the Illyrians.

Anyway, remember there is also a Carthaginian army in norther Iberia. You can easily wipe them out.

THe Carthiginian Army was encamped at the edge of the Alps. It moved slightly as it prepared to get into formation. An army twice its size was nearing, and the Carthaginian mercenaries were ready for a scrap. Camping proved extremelly boring, and soon it would be combatting the enemy. Elephants and everything prepared to move out.

(How do you want to do the battle?)

Elite - my army turned back to meet the threat of the Illyrians - there will be no Macedonian help for at least a little while

Sukaida - my rping Iberian army is marching south, towards the Carthaginian cities, not towards your army

OOC: Ok, that's good. Cause I was being generous with the 140k limit. Why don't you attack his army in northern Iberia though? Once it is defeated and eliminated (and defeating an army this far from its own territory would eliminate it) nothing will stop you from taking all of Iberia.

maybe this will force him to withdraw to protect his colonies.

(OOC: Actually it gives the Iberian's the central position. BUt that's alright. I have a plan. *NOds)

The colonies bells rang in a dozen different tones as the border troops in protection pulled themselves together, and attempted to go behind their walled towns. THe colonies were built to withstand raids, not a conquering army. THankfully their shipping would allow for an evacuation if they wished it, though the civilian populations seemed in an uproar. THe Carthaginian's pulled together levies, getting them behind the town walls.

(I am gathering that it's probably about half the size of the Iberian army, my troops are just less in number.)

OOC: Anyone know what Keltoi is up to. I don't think he has posted as Switzerland in AoI2 either.

(I ate him.)

(thats just not nice)

The Iberian Army is investing the city of Carthago Nova first, building small fortifications around the city to protect against a counterattack. The troops are setting up a siege and hope to at least drive out the Carthaginians.

The Carthiginian's prepare for a seige, waiting as a dozen different messengers are sent to the army in the north. It takes a few weeks, but finally the dozens of messengers, one comes into the camp. It works perfectly to the methodical nature of Hannibal. He grins as he prepares.

THe army of Hannibal is methodical as it starts heading south. Not to releave the beligured fortress, but to have fun with Iberia. THey burn villages, the largest army sent down to seige, the little unprepared areas that meant to slow him down simply get annihilated as the bored soldiers loot, pillage, rape, and swath their army towards the sea. (THink Sherman's March to the Sea, but much much nastier.)

OOC: ooh, clever, and not very nice either

IC: The nearly panicked Iberian Army is forced to head north to the relief of its homeland and against the will of the king who wished to finish the job of the Carthaginian colonies. The Army heads north on a fast pace to catch Hannibal before he ravages the heart of Iberia and the seat at Tarraco

OOC: See, that's why I thought you should go for his army.

(Yeah never leave a large army to your rear. Of course that means that I can reinforce my colonies. MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!)

THe army meant for ROme instantly pushed itself towards the Iberian front. Thousands of soldiers (I'll mess with numbers when they arrive.) headed fro the boats, ready to reinforce the colonies.

Hannibal's Army slowed down as it consolidated, all 23k men taking a few days to rest and refit themselves after stringing out.

(Hey you had an army at your back too. I wasn't willing to sacrifice the Iberian cities though - we could have just exchanged cities.)

The Iberian army marched rapidly north, exhausting many soldiers as they were determined to get back to their families who were under attack. The Army turned to hit the Carthaginian Army is central Iberia before reinforcements could arrive.

OOC: Titicus I wouldn't march too fast, you have a bit of a lead so you don't need to. If you are not too tired your number advantage is great enough that you will easily defeat his troops despite their better training.

(Hehehe of course my troops being rest is also the betterment of it. Not to mention most Iberians have never faced Elephants before which I have. Remember it is advantagagious to me. MWAHHAHAHAHA)

The Carthaginian army started to march again as it consolidated. It's armys slowly moving south again, not dragging itself out as it continued to burn it's way south. After all the armies headed towards them couldn't be that bad. And it kept their elephants well enough rested as they marched south.

After reaching the central Iberian region, the army stopped to resupply and rest for several days. As soon as this was completed, they would march directly on the Carthaginian Army and deploy for battle

THe Carthiginian Army slowly made it's way to Central Iberia. The slow way left the soldiers ansy, as well as better rested. Hannibal wasn't entirely sure where the enemy ahppened to be, so he took it slow to keep his army conglomorated while it raided, and to make sure they were easily rested. The battle appeared to be headed towards the center of Iberian pennisula.

The Roman fleet arrived at Sardinia and 7k principes rowed ashore. Half the fleet (26 ships) then sailed north to Corsica with the 5k phalangites and remaining 1k principes. The remainder of the fleet stayed behind and set up a patrol so they would not be surprised by the Carthaginians.

THe fleet around Sardina was reinforced, bringing it's full compliment to over 100 ships. It's sails fluttering in the breeze as it waited. What for would be left to everyone.

OOC: Sorry, but what does "what for would be left to everyone" mean?

(AHEM!! What for, that would be left to everyone. That better?)

OOC: Yes, it is.

IC: The 7k principes that had landed on Sardinia began to march across the lands raping and pillaging everywhere they went. They headed for the islands' capital. Along the way they recruited 5k mercenaries.

The Illyrians have set their eyes on the city of Bitola. We plan to set seige to the city, if no army arrives to confront the might barbarian force.

OCC: Macedon has more people, and their phalanx's will destroy my primarly lines for troops, but Macedonians have never faced a cavalry force of this proportion. Especially on with horse archers. I believe the battle will be pretty evenly matched.

The elite Illyrian archers use flame arrows, in case of a seige of Bitola (seeing as if I survive the Macedonian force) they will be the primary siege force, along with the catapults and dead animals we throw over the walls.

The Illyrian tribesman have heard of the epic battles and cunning wit of Hannibal. Cheiftan Rodon wishes to ally with Great Carthage and the Gaulic tribes, seeing as we are all peoples, oppressed by intruding armies. Let us all ally against the great oppressors of the world, to free our people!!!

The relieving army arrives in Iberia of about 45k men total. THey all together put around 70k soldiers including the levies in the Iberian penninsula. They march to the relief of the cities.

Hannibal stalls, waiting for his enemy to make the first move as he swings back slightly.

Carthage would love to join in the common cause against the unfair imperial powers who only wish destruction.

The fleet of Carthage splits outside the ROman fleet, sifting over and then catching it between them. They'd stayed off the coast to concolidate, now in a good 2 to 1 odds, they pushed themselves forward to sink all transports and stick the army of Rome inside Sardina. Then they could bring an army to destroy it.

OOC: I set up patrols, my fleet would have left long before you could surround them. You didn't tell me how close your forces had gotten previously, or if you did I didn't understand it cause that last post was confusing.

OOC-Yeah, I'm still here. Can some one throw an army my way? Getting kind of bored.

Macedonia: The Greek Allied Army led by the King of Macedon, Antigonus Gonatas has arrived at his imperial palace at Pella. Hearing that the city of Bitolas is under siege, the army sets out to engage the enemy Illyrians in battle. It is here that it will come. The Army is to deploy in standard Greek formation mainly when it arrives.

Iberia: After having rested several days the Iberian Army marches to attack Hannibal's Army. (OOC: Lets assume it is found)

Finding the enemy army, the Iberians deploy in a formation weighted on eother flank. The Army is arrayed left to right, 8,000 cavalry,11,000 spearmen, 5,000 swordsmen, 15,000 spearmen, 7,000 swordsmen