NationStates Jolt Archive

This is going to take place around 280 BC. All nations around the Med (and a few others) at this time are available:

Rome: Elite Battle Hordes; claims: Italian Peninsula
Carthage: Sukiaida; claims:
Nubia
Egypt
Delian League: No Taxes; claims:
The Peloponnesian League
Macedonia: Titicus; claims: Northern Greece, Macedonia, and ThraceGaul (may be split into several tribes)
Germania (may be split also)
Britannia (may be split also)
Parthians: The Parthians; claims:
Senons:The Keltoi Tribe; claims: Cisalpine Gaul
Huns: Breitenburg; claims: Mongolia
Iberia: West Corinthia; claims: western, central, and northern Spain
And more (just name a Med nation that existed around this time and I will accept it)

Time will pass at a rate of one year every real day. Some nations will be more powerful than others. There are two determining factors of how many armies you can raise. They are income and manpower. Some nations have more income, others have more manpower, and a few have more of both. Since there are many nations such as Rome that had vast empires everyone is going to have to limit their claims somewhat.

That’s pretty much it. Here are some more options:

The Seleucid Empire
Pontus
Armenia
Pergamon
Scythian tribes
Sarmatian tribes
Illyrians
Bithnya
Bactria

You just started yes? How about I take Carthage?

Carthage is yours. What are your claims? I am sure that modern Tunisia, Morocco, northern Algeria, and southern Spain are among them, but what about islands?

Cool. I get Carthage. Elephants and Hannibal. Groovy. Or something to that effect.

Doesn't anyone else want to help "rewrite" classical history?

Yeah it seems like people just don't care about Classical History. FOr shame.

umm, can I be the Huns? They weren't Med., but were influential in the fall of Rome.

Well, the Huns (as far as their involvement with Rome goes) were more like 300 AD, not BC, but depending on your claims I suppose I could let you have them. You are going to have to be further east at this point.

Can I be Iberia? Carthage occupied a little of the south in Spain around that time but the north was controlled by barbarians of celtic descent.

Ok, you are Iberia.

Could I be the Celts? They're not usually considered a civilisation, but they often banded together against Greece, Rome and such... the druids from all over the place even met up anually in Gaul to discuss stuff. There's the one downside of Iberia having been claimed... But they were slightly detatched from the rest. In which case I'd be Gaul, Southern Britain, Helvetia, and Cisalpine Gaul, with Illyria, Iberia, Ireland, Scotland, Wales, and Galatia as friends (not quite allies).

you know, I'm pretty sure that Rome didn't own all of Italy in 300 BC. And there are so many celtic tribes that you'd have to pick one, not just all. That would be too huge and wouldn't make any sense.

They didn't all band together, and certainly not all the area you claimed. And the Parthians didn't arrive for another 25 years, they were controlled by the Seleucids at the time. Trying to get things right, but being picky



but can I have the Macedonians anyways? claiming: Northern Greece, Macedonia, and Thrace.

Well, the Huns (as far as their involvement with Rome goes) were more like 300 AD, not BC, but depending on your claims I suppose I could let you have them. You are going to have to be further east at this point.

okay, I claim Mongolia

i'd want to be minoen crete if i thought i had any idea what i was doing in this context. my idea of 'rewriting' classical history is for minoen crete and celtic western europe to have never fallen and rome to never have arrisen, as would have been if some demented time traveller hadn't messed things up by giving the etruscans the stirrup and the flying wedge.

like i said, IF i had the slightest idea what i was doing. not real interested in wars, but i like to wedge that bit in about an alternative history without rome whenever i can. the consiquences of that comming forward could be very interesting. primarily for one thing, a LOT LESS belligerent of a world.

one in which some developments might have been slower but without loosing a thousand years to fanatiacism to have to be made up in the dizzying hurry later we're all too familiar with.

=^^=
.../\...

I have to agree, you can only be one Celtic nation. As I mentioned, I was even considering splitting up Gaul, Britannia, and Germania, so that is too much. But, go ahead and pick one of those three, or someone else entirely.

Yes, I know Rome did not have all of Italy at this time. I said about 300 BC because I knew that things would have to be stretched a bit. When you see 300 just think between 450 and 150. Macedonians it is. (By the way, you missed the Delian League issue.)

You can have Mongolia, and some other surrounding territory, but not China.

I don't think I will accept the Minoans; one, because they are too ancient, and two, because I am going to divide Greece between two factions, the Delian League and the Peloponnesian League. You wouldn't want to be the Minoans anyway, as they would get wiped out by the first person to attack them.

The Celtic tribes were indipendant from each other, but they quite commonly sent unified armies at Rome, Greece, Carthage, Dacia etc. But, if you won't let me have the Celts as slightly unified, I'll take the Senons, in Cisalpine Gaul. They controlled all the Po valley, down to around the area of San Marino up to the Adige River in the NE. Alps to the North and West. Appenines to the South.

I'll take the Parthians

And if you want a more long list of nations that are avalible around 250 BCE

Rome
Carthage
Numidia
The Ptolemaic Empire (Egypt)
The Seleucid Empire
Pontus
Armenia
Pergamon
Scythian tribes
Sarmatian tribes
Illyrians
Bithnya
Syracuse
Bactria
Aetolian League
Sparta
Achaean League
Macedonia
Gaul (may be split into several tribes)
Germania (may be split also)
Britannia (may be split also)
Parthians
Huns: Breitenburg; claims: Mongolia
Iberia (Technically a collection of tribes)

Senons and Parthians, check.

The Iberian tribes (technically Celtiberians) were more unified than the Greek City States ever were, so "technicaly a collection of tribes" doesn't really give the right impression. So might have all the Celts been, at some points, but no one's actually sure, not enough data.

well, the maybe you play as the Sennons, and when you need help or aid for an army, other celts can come help you.

And Greece stands no chance against the Macedonian hegemony - leagues, hah

It would be better if I had any nearby player enemies though

Here's a list of the main Celtic tribes for people to take:

Caledonians: Scotland
Gaels: Ireland
Bretons: Central Great Britain
Belgians: Belgium + SE England
Nervians: Holland
Cheruskans(sp?): Baveria
Keltoi: Rhenania
Gauls (special case of Celts): France
Celtiberians: Portugal + Northern Spain
Ligurians: Provence + Liguria
Senons: Cisalpine Gaul
Venetes: Venezia
Illyriens: Illyria
Getes: Western Roumania + Northern Yugoslavia

Titicus, the Celt's second Brennus defeated Macedonia around this time, so you do have some enemies to worry about. Interestingly enough, the Celts tried to sack Delphi after that, but failed. So I wouldn't underestimate the Greeks either.

279 BC. You have 21 years.

Even if no one else chooses a Celtic tribe I will allow you to assume that some of them send you aid depending on certain things such as their proximity (I don't see many forces coming all the way from Ireland) and motivation. Their level of motivation will depend on the overall percieved threat or gain involved. If I, as Rome, were to send a force that seemed to be large enough to totally conquer and occupy Cisalpine Gaul, then nearby tribes might send a fair amount of forces due to worry that I would be eliminating what they see as a buffer state.

Which should happen in 298 BC.

ok, I'm confused. Are we playing in 300 or 250? beacause it makes a difference. Macedon was the power of Greece for some time with occasional hiccups including during that Celtic invasion which eventually passed on into Asia Minor

Neither, both, it doesn't matter. The official year is 300 BC as far as technology and the like, but the territory and political situations can vary between 450 and 150 BC. This variation is in order to balance the game. I don't want all nations to be equal, but I don't want Rome, Macedonia, or whoever to run over everyone else. Think of your power level this way: If the Peloponnesian and Delian Leagues unite they should be able to fend you off without too much trouble. But if you try to take one of them you have a good chance. Of course both leagues have good defensive situations. First, there is Thermoplye. For the Spartans there is the Peloponnesus. And for the Athenians there is the fact that they can hole themselves up in Athens and keep their economy "afloat" with their fleet. Of course, there is also the factor of how good the person rping each nation is...

Hum... that's vague. In 450 BC, the Celts were limited to the Keltoi tribe. In 386, Irishmen were marching victoriously in Rome. In 150, the Celts are starting to split up and the Senons, Ligurians, Venetes, Illyrians and Getes have been conquered by Rome or another nation...


What do you suggest for me?

Yes, it is somewhat vague. Maybe the 450-150 is a bad way to think about it. Think about it as 250 BC with slight modifications in territorial size. The largest modification being that the Greeks are still near their height, and comprised of two main factions.

No, Senons took a major whack from Rome in 283. They were still independant, but greatly weakened, so I wouldn't choose them.

And the Samnites are still around, so Rome doesn't even have all the Italian penninsula. I don't know much about them though.

They wouldn't have to be so weak. Like I said, there will be territory modifications. You can have the same land you would have had in 300 BC. I would advise against being any southeastern Gauls though, as they are likely to wiped out by the Romans quite early on.

So when is the actual RP going to start?

As soon as we get enough people signed on. Two more should be enough to start. I am hoping for at least one of the Greek leagues to be one of them.

Yes weren't they rather small.

I was just saying that because in 323 BC the Macedonians owned much of the known world. Their military was the best, and they defeated the Greek cities over and over. In 200 BC they were still the power of the Aegean and Rome only defeated them after winning and losing several very costly battles (Pyhrric Victory).

ok, we're going to say that the Greek alliances are powerful together but either one is weaker by itself. (while meanwhile Rome and the Seleucid Empire are nearby and strong as well)

I'm ready to rp whenever

can i be the delian league

Okay, you are the Delian League.

hey, another Greek player

and I was looking this stuff up and it really matter what year we start - there was a lot of turmoil and rising/falling powers in Greece between 300 and 200 BC. THe first 25 years were al Macedonian, then Greek and Epirot, then Macedonian again

hey, another Greek player

and I was looking this stuff up and it really matter what year we start - there was a lot of turmoil and rising/falling powers in Greece between 300 and 200 BC. THe first 25 years were al Macedonian, then Greek and Epirot, then Macedonian again

if we start out with macedon ruling greece then maybe i can rp for independence, or start out like a protectorate and then later gain more independence

so do we have enough people now?

Ok, we will start with an official date of 280 BC. All technology, military and otherwise, will conform with this date. There will be certain other modifications though. For instance, the Samnites will not exist. Rome controls all of the Italian Peninsula except Cisalpine Gaul. Macedonia and Delian League, you will have decide between yourselves what the situation over there is. (The final decision is up to the Delian League though, seeing as how it is supposed to be his land.)

I was planning on having at least one more person before starting, but I guess we can start now and hopefully more will join soon. I am creating the IC thread now.

Just to clear up one thing in my mind, Iberia owns all of the Iberian peninsula except a bit in the South which is Carthaginian right?

http://www.wsu.edu:8080/~dee/ROME/CAREMMAP.HTM

Carthage owns something close to this.

Speaking of which, everyone who hasn't, make your claims.

HERES A GOOD MAP
The Rise of Roman Power in the Medeterranean, 270 BCE
3rd map - Map of 270 BCE
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.houseofptolemy.org/graphics/300bce.gif&imgrefurl=http://www.houseofptolemy.org/housemap.htm&h=500&w=1150&sz=35&tbnid=93xsPWuwfHiPiM:&tbnh=65&tbnw=150&hl=en&start=38&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dancient%2BMacedonia%2Bmap%26start%3D20%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26sa%3DN

and ok, I have a site that says a lot about Greece at this time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antigonus_II_Gonatas

It will be interesting rping

In 282 BC, Lysimachus was defeated by Seleucus, who was defeated by Ptolemy Ceraunus Nicator in 281, who was defeated by the Gauls in 279, who were defeated by an alliance of the Aetolian League(Delian League) and Antigonus Gonatas in 277. Then Antigonus took the throne, was defeated by Pyhrrus in 275, but took back the crown in 272.

Antigonus was allied with the Aetolians who had helped him, but had a lot of power in southern and central Greece and was resented for largely dominating the league.

So its complex and might be easier to let the Greek states start in 272 BC, whatever everyone else thinks.

HERES A GOOD MAP
The Rise of Roman Power in the Medeterranean, 270 BCE
3rd map - Map of 270 BCE
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.houseofptolemy.org/graphics/300bce.gif&imgrefurl=http://www.houseofptolemy.org/housemap.htm&h=500&w=1150&sz=35&tbnid=93xsPWuwfHiPiM:&tbnh=65&tbnw=150&hl=en&start=38&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dancient%2BMacedonia%2Bmap%26start%3D20%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26sa%3DN

and ok, I have a site that says a lot about Greece at this time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antigonus_II_Gonatas

It will be interesting rping

In 282 BC, Lysimachus was defeated by Seleucus, who was defeated by Ptolemy Ceraunus Nicator in 281, who was defeated by the Gauls in 279, who were defeated by an alliance of the Aetolian League(Delian League) and Antigonus Gonatas in 277. Then Antigonus took the throne, was defeated by Pyhrrus in 275, but took back the crown in 272.

Antigonus was allied with the Aetolians who had helped him, but had a lot of power in southern and central Greece and was resented for largely dominating the league.

So its complex and might be easier to let the Greek states start in 272 BC, whatever everyone else thinks.
272 works for me, although, it sounds like if i start out as the Aetolians(Delians) i'd be basically a protectorate of Macedon or at least we'd have some kind of alliance.

OK, and I'll play as though the Senons never allied to the Samnites in the third samnite war. I'm ready to go.

Sooo is there a map?

I like Titicus' map. I like it so much that I am going to drop my claim on Messina. Anyway, I started the IC thread. It is easy to find; just look for Classical Mediterranean RP (IC). Anyway, everyone remember that 1 real day equals 1 year, unless everybody thinks this should be different.

thank you

and "No Taxes", yes I have some protectorate power, but like ten years later the Aetolians allied with the Acheans and Roman to throw off the Macedonian hold, and Macedon has made many enemies so you have some options if you wanted them. An alliance at the moment doesn't seem so bad to me

A few people have not yet made claims. As far as the Delian League goes, I could let you be the entire Hellenic League if nobody signs up for the Peloponnesians. Otherwise you should get all Greek land except the Peloponnesus and Sicily, I think.

A few people have not yet made claims. As far as the Delian League goes, I could let you be the entire Hellenic League if nobody signs up for the Peloponnesians. Otherwise you should get all Greek land except the Peloponnesus and Sicily, I think.
that's fine with me, i mean if no one else showed up to be a Greek player i'd probably be able to dominate Greece anyways.

To Titicus:
An alliance sounds good with me.

West Corinthia: Now is not the right time to tick off Carthage! They're long time allies of the Celts, remember?


Edit: Sorry, I got confused with names a while back, which might be apparent.

The first historical mention of the Celts, was in about 450 BC by Herodotus. Keltoi was the name of a barbarian tribe in South Western Germany. This tribe had developed a strong military force of Swordsman which they used to subjugate, sometimes peacefully, the other tribes around them, and imposed their language, culture and religion. They did not, however use the classical government system of that time. Instead, they imposed a caste system, in which the Keltoi setlers formed an upper class, later known as the druids.

The druids were both religious leaders and an intelectual class. While the local Kings retained the political and military power, the Druids took control of the religion, and could thus use the gods wills as a way to get rid of troublesome or inadequate kings. They also worked as historians, scientists, judges, diplomats, generals etc. A druid is even said to have studied alongside Pythagoras.

The main Keltoi tribe remained around their local area, but also took direct control of Rhenania. The Druids, meanwhile, would bring various tribe's armies together to take more land, eventually conquering a massive territory. Because of the distance, many of the Druids grew apart from each other, but they made it a custom to hold yearly meetings in a designated location in Gaul. Almost all would have made the pilgrimage at least once, and many repeatedly, so a Iberian Druid may well have been friends with and Irish druid.

While Celtic tribes often sold themselves as mercinaries, they didn't often all join together. Notable exceptions are the battle of Allia (387 BC), the invasion of Illyria (310 BC) Haemus (298 BC), the invasion of Greece (279 BC), Alesia (52 BC).

The druids, who would train their entire life, could prove a formidable force by themselves, as they would train as fighters and had a secret code between them. They remained a problem for Rome long after Gaul had been defeated, as they made guerilla assaults while living among the locals.

This is still open to new comers, just to let anyone checking this thread out know.

put that in the title.

I don't know how to edit titles, just posts.

Don't you just change the Title of the first post?

Maybe, I'll try that.