NationStates Jolt Archive

OOC: Hey, this wouldn't be my first war, but I was just reading over the Napleonic Wars and War of 1812 (for alternate history purposes) and I got to thinking there aren't that many 'decent' wars anymore. Most of the time people just slug it out with technology, not trying to get into the tactics, personal-level, dramatic war we all love. I personally feel tactics with a bit of drama and a lot of personal-level writing would make for a good RP.

Problem is finding people who are willing to RP like this, some people just fight to win, others fight with too much technology, and some are newb and just launch a nuclear strike and call it a win. Though there are those I've seen, some of the more experianced players who still RP on a personal-level with tactics and drama and such. Well thats my goal. (Note: You don't have to have 1,000 posts to RP in this, just be dedicated to giving a good RP)

Well the idea of this RP is generally just to have two sides (or three) get a general idea of why the two sides are fighting, what gains. Then get the battlefields (maps and such) set up, and then RP this decently. Honestly, I don't care if I loose (I'd perfer not to loose my country, but if I do I get a 2 billion one I can return to).

This does seem like Operation: Hellfire, I know. I was semi apart of that, and from what I hear that kinda went down hill. I'd like to keep this one from going the same way.

Remeber, the idea is Drama, Tactics, Good RP. All I want is a good old fashion slug-fest war which could be put down in NSwiki are one of the best Team wars ever fought. And honestly, if your joining with the intention of 'winning' and your bent only on winning, don't bother joining. Heck, if I loose I will probably go down in one of those climatic battles which makes you wonder what the world would be like if I had one. The idea is just to put down in the NS History books this Great War.

Then agian, this idea may be too advanced for a 9-10 month player to achieve, but I'm willing to try.

I'd like suggestions and all those wanting or willing to sign up. Remeber, I would like dedicated people who are going to stick with this even if for some unknown reason I have to bail out (i.e. death in the family) for a period of time.

So, suggest away.

Bump.

I'm up for it. Havn't been in a war for ages. But back when i joined was in them a lot. I prefer the wars on a RPable level, i.e foot soliders and the war settles around groups as they take on the war on a personal level. Makes for much more intense RP. Otherwise its just hardcore chess really.

I'll play good or bad, whichever suits the RP better.

i'm interested. what era? umm, yeah... i'm pretty new at this, but i think i could keep up so long as it weren't future tech. i'm not sure i have the knowledge to do modern tech well, but i could do it. past tech i could do, at least pre-ww1. the bit inbetween there is a little sketchy.

doing something in the napolionic era would be cool. better if it weren't actually set en europe on earth as we know it.

I’m up for it but I think it is only fair to warn now; I am eyeball deep in schoolwork most days so it may be some time between my posts. I will endeavor to make them of quality but I thought the warning was only fair.

I’d be willing to take some heavy losses for a paltry amount of territory. I am currently working on a new thread that will see the ousting of my landed nobility, so having them commit troops in an imperial action would be good fodder to reference to. I’d even go so far as to return the territory (way down the road) once the nobility is no longer in power.

Interested in me?

I'm definitely interested, and here's a good napoleanic era war: american civil war. Read "The Killer Angels". We could roleplay it. Plenty of drama, heroism, and whatever else available. What do you think about that?

I'm also interested. I've been FT for a while, and I'm sick of how everyone keeps throwing out huge numbers of ships and saying "I win!" just because of it, or I have this big fancy laser and you don't. Very tiring.

Perhaps we could rp this in WWII tech? That in my opinion was the last great war where tactics and as you say 'level rping' characters really can come out.

I dont mean to say as in "I'm the Germans and your the Allies!" but instead using their technology. I created a nation that used WWII german army tech, but I forgot the password and let the puppet die. Its an option anyway.

heh.. i do a bit of wargameing, and ww2 is mostly about the numbers more than stratgy, at that level. not sure how much that bears out in RP. napolionics and ACW are more about tactics and formation. the lack of comunication made true stratigy hard.

Im game for anything upto MT. A decent war would be nice for once, and preferedly without a naval side to it (I hate naval battles, unless they are extremely oldschool with swords and muskets and boarding enemy ships lol).

I'm interested, a nice PMT war of epic proportions rife with betrayals, tragic characters fire and flame explosions left right and center, oh and not forgetting an intense war of rivalries.

Harratio Hornblower and Richard Sharpe are cool.. Sharpe more so.

it's kind of hard to have a war with NO navel elements, but from what i've seen of Nation States, things go a bit overboard a lot of the time. heh... several thousand ships and subs in the arctic = overkill/overcrowding, much? that got very silly.

oh, i am reminded of the other reason i like pre-ww1 better: air superiority is a non-issue. defencive works actually Work, etc.

Er in a PMT setting defenses actualy work as well, however though they arn't completly uber forever lasting things either.

"uber dforever lasting things".. hehe. it's amuseing. anyway: castles weren't either, once seige weapons were brought into play, nor forts to cannons. infact, the only times defences have been stupid were world war 1 style trenches, and the modern "nothing actually works while still being practical" situation [as it appears to me]

True, though in PMT there are as many ways to be strong despitae lack of air superiroity as there are ways to be stong with air superiority.

hornblower was anything but cool. Sharpe was awesome. I hate PMT defence, you cant send in anything, there's always counter everything......

and the problem with that is?

It means you have to use Tactics and it also would allow for things to be focused on a smaller scale with the rest of the war playing second fiddle to characters.

truth. however, in the "real" world, if that's really it's name, if you were going to claim something were "broken" as it were, what would you chose? personaly, i'd go for anything that was both supersonic and stelthy, thus, aircraft. i can't think of a single thing throughout history that would be harder to counter, nor more out of reach of anyone in the position to need to. the nearest things would be the roman legions in briton, or the late 19th centurey when the europeans had machine guns and, well, most of the random little countrys they were invadeing were lucky to have rifles. wich reminds me, machine guns were next on my list of "would be broken if life was a card game" military weapons.

yeah.. rant over :)

edit: i should remember to quote things when replying to a specific issue.

anyway, in the napolionic era everything had it's counter too. on the other hand, all the counters had counters, and even a counter could be defeated by the thing it was ment to protect against, if it were done right. so it came down to how you USED them. the situation where you get things like "automated laserguided anit missile rapid motion tracking turrets" and the like... just gets silly. not to mention rediculously expencive. though the 7 day war was amuseing.

What had counter anything in the napoleanic era? Do you mean formations and stuff? Like square beats cavalry, line beats infantry, disciplined line beats columb blah blah.

But the thing with PMT you just need to cram a piece of land with every sort of anti-something system there is and BAM. You are screwed. They have all these rediculous system that sends 10000's of missiles, lasar everything at what you are throwing at them. Its just stupid, not strategy. Anything but strategy.

that was ment to be my point :P

hornblower was anything but cool. Sharpe was awesome. I hate PMT defence, you cant send in anything, there's always counter everything......

Anything can be countered though. The archer equivalent in the MT/PMT era are anti-air missiles and rockets/possibly bombers. Though in the older time periods you could defend yourself against arrows with enough armor...

or terran features, or sneaking up on and ambushing the archers while someone else distracted them, or through haveing better archers yourselves, or setting fire to grass or trees if they were hideing, or makeing use of buildings, or flooding the vally they were in [that required a bit more preperation though] or causeing a rockslide.. lots of things. none of wich work on missiles or aircraft.

Yes but those counters are just......more fun!
I mean whats fun about saying: "I fired 1000 Class A ZYX32 Missiles that can blow up all aircrafts of any kind no matter their stealth system." Compared to "I sent forward 300 heavily armoured warriors to distract your archers while my light cavalry encircled them and rode in from behind.."

I take it you don't like PMT from that statement the situation is anything but that, especially if someone claimed to have fired a missile with such capabilities I would ignore it point blank for godmodding and powergaming.

the whole missile swarm thing would be cool, except each missile is so good!

humm, i do much prefur past tech, you know. i was trying to argue that side, if it appeared to be the other way.

but.. yeah, modern war is all about technological supremacy. even the american military can't seem to stuff it up anymore [befor someone flames me for that opinion, take a look at what the history books have to say about the american airforce in ww2. even their own ground troops would fire on them if they went past, they were so bad.]

"I fired 1000 Class A ZYX32 Missiles that can blow up all aircrafts of any kind no matter their stealth system." Compared to "I sent forward 300 heavily armoured warriors to distract your archers while my light cavalry encircled them and rode in from behind.."

Let's look at that from another point of view.

"I fired my Trebuchet at your archers killing them instantly," compared to "I sent an armoured division supported by attack helicopters at your front line while a second armoured division went round your flanks to attack you from behind, during which I sent in a commando team to sabotage your airfield."

Ok true true Novacom BUT you cannot argue that cases like "I fired 1000 Class A ZYX32 Missiles that can blow up all aircrafts of any kind no matter their stealth system" happens alot more often in PMT than in PT.

And I dont like technological superiority. It is far less of a problem in PT: Where discipline and skill can be more easily utilised than what musket/sword/armour/club they are using.

I have no problem in accepting that, though a similar situation could come up with people arguing that there training is better, people will always find something to godmod or powergame with.

Either way, that's not really what we're looking for. I thought the point of this was to have some sort of heroic/dramatic war, and I don't see much of that in modern times. The main wars I can see that have great epic novels written about are ACW (or other Napoleanic-era war), something along the line of "De Bello Gallico", or something like a Trojan War (which might get a tad bit complicated).

now, see, the trebuchet example falls flat when you realize that all the archers have to do is Move and they live, and that trebuchets were huge and took forever to set up, as well as not being as accurate as you might think, so the archers are probibly happy enough.

meanwhile the missles can generaly track, by the time you know they're there they've got you, and.. well, basicly don't have any of the problems.

The worse thing about MT aircrafts is that dog fights are a thing of the past. You just fire a missile at distance and hope it hits, which it probably will. Oldschool WW1 and WW2 dogfights were cool.

i think the best bet is probibly fuedal or napolionic. with decent maps and ficticious nations, if at all possible.

I like Medieval, decent maps and fictional. My first RP I did with a nation I have long since lost was Medieval with magic (we had a magical type of unit each, me dragons, him psychic frogs). That was fun.

hehe.. psychic frogs. bet that got silly quick. i'd say to avoid the magic this time though, it's as prone to abuse as future tech.

I left last night with only be posting, I come back and I got three pages. The quote: "You build it and they will come" rings to mind.

Interesting ideas from all of you. Napeleonic would be good, so would WW2. Though, I've always wanted to see a strictly conventional Modern Tech (if thats even possible), where tanks and troops bash it out. Some technology is ok, but I don't want people saying "Well...I got more tech cause I'm bigger...so yea...I win".

This is the kind of war that forges hatred and heroism. I think Modern Tech could achieve this is people didn't focus solely upon the Technological aspect of it. AMF for example used phycological fear in Kahanistan (sp?), when he chopped up the people of won time, put their limbs in a dump truck and drove them into the next time to scare the people there (which probably worked). I want to focus on all things from phycological, to tactics, to drama, to heroism, to just sluggin it out between armies.

Also, I'd like some 'Home Front' roleplaying to go on. This kind of war could either ensure Democracies crumble, Dictatorships fall, or it could lead to Communist/Facist coups. Not saying you have to have your government collapse on you. But if your fighting in a far off land and word gets back to your people that out of the 100,000 man force you sent, that about 75,000 are dead, they probably aren't going to line the streets with joy. Or just talk about the political instability caused by the war. At the very least, for those of you who don't have time to rp a domestic front, or simply aren't good at it, just make some paragraph references to how the people feel about the war ever so often. Cause like in WW1, the Russian Army was pwned but it held out until the very end, the people of Russia broke first.

Now, even while we're ironing out the Tech we'll RP in (since my nation was isolated prior to 2006 rl, which makes my history hard to create if I jump into a Napelonic Tech Rp). We should also choose WHY we're fighting.

This doesn't have to be a "Democracy Vs Dictatorship" and I'd perfer that such generic plots be left out, or "Freedom vs Communism". I'd like a rather complex reason as to why. Nationalistic reasons, or Fanatical Internationalism. Because in real-life a nation just doesn't get a phone call about a war and say "OFF TO WAR!", they look for a pre-text to enter the war, even the most fanatically-loyal dictatorship populations need to be told why their going to war to die. Droloon might enter this war based on securing economic assests from any enemy, or may join the war to gain the wealth and plunder of enemy lands. Its all about pre-text, cause pre-text makes for a good historical writing about the war, pre-texts often give the name of the war also. Cause if two nations are sluggin it out for Poland, they aren't going to call it the "Germanic-Russo War" they'd probably called it "The Polish War".

So also some suggestions as to why we'd be fighting, why we'd align together. If nessecary we can all tempoary, or magically, be in the relatively same area.

if you could whack up a world map for the perposes of this particular RP [doesn't have to be earth] and include things like strategic resorces on it, and people listed their government type or whatever, you could do it risk style, with everyone haveing a different goal. some seeking teritory, some specific resorces, some just to make a buck, some forceing their idiology on the world, some defending their own. that way, alliances would constantly shift as interests met and diverged. would be more.. interesting.

and given that we'd pretty much be playing in a different world, could it not be said that you would also have a differnt history? think of it as an "AU" history for your nation, or some such. that's pretty much what i'd be doing.

How about this, we can have it in Napleonic Times. Not many of us have a posted and 'set in stone' history, this war could be a past where in which it simply fills a space on our nations history. Allows you to play MT and get your history to be more realistic and fun.

Sound good?

sounds good to me. i have some history Prior to that point, and some in modern tech, but nothing in the gap there. . . though the early history is specificly set on earth, while the later is kind of unspecified.

but, yeah. good idea.

I have a fair deal of my history worked out, if we had been looking for a pretense for war you could always have had my invasion of Xharn as the catalyst, that way it would also be fairer since me having forces tied up elsewhere would allow for a better chance and more balanced numbers.

If it's Napoleonic it'll mean a completly different pretence, one that could be difficult to cook up.

Aircraft generally defeat almost any type of strategy before it begins. Theres almost no way to go up against them without using technological superiority or missile-wanking.

Hey this is Droloon, this is the 2 billion nation I pointed out earlier. I've returned to it, and I'm still willing to have this war thing.

In terms of pretexts, its up to those involved. If its Napleonic, it could be the ideal of "Our culture and civilization is better than yours!" or simply "Your people are disgusting and we must bring civilization to them". That was actualy used in Napelonic times I believe...heck thats used in RL today.

Give us a map or general description of where I am, who's on my borders etc. and I'll try to create a history with a reason to hate someone.

yes. a map. chop it into little terrirtorys [rather than whole nations] and then distribute the terirotrys in a semi-random fassion. heh... that would give you the "you're between me and .. umm.. ME!" as a reason to conqure someone..

but yeah, this was ment to be charicter based.. humm.... yeah. a map and fixed era and i'm sorted. blah. i had a point when i started....

Is this dying or am i being impatient?

And I like the risk type idea. It can work out nicely.

Not dying. Its just I'm rather poor at making maps, so I'm trying my best with Paint. If anyone here would be so kind as to also make a map, and present it, I would be very thankful.

less helpful than it could be: in a thread around somewhere, someone put a link to a map makeing program. i've got it, but it's a serious pain in the butt to use. the only thing it's really got going for it is that it MIGHT be better than paint, and it creates fractle coast lines nicely. gah.. if i could remember where it was, i'd give you a link. i'm Not volunteering to make the map though.. still cant get the stupid thing to work quite right.

If you want me to I'll make it if you find the link. Or we could each make a map and vote on the best one.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=453192 << now i haven't checked, because the thread is LONG but i belive the link is in there some where. if not, it at least has an example of what i ment by chopping the map into teritorys. i don't think that map was created useing the program i was refuring to.. wich is "auto realm" [only spelt right if i got it wrong, may or may not have a space in there] so, if all else fails, google it or something.

http://img146.imageshack.us/my.php?image=mapi7we.jpg

well?

Very excellent Keltoi Tribe. I've really got to learn how to make maps. But anyway, thats the map we'll use then. On the map could you mark the provinces 1 threw whatever to make it easier. People can nation their provinces what they wish.

So we've got Maps, Setting (Napelonic), Reasons for War can be anything, I'll let some sporadically make some claim.

So once you get those numbers up we'll allow claims.

oo oo Im in. One section each?

Numbered Map (http://img268.imageshack.us/my.php?image=mapi1bg.jpg)

How much land can we claim? Any restrictions, like max two connected or something?


oops, call the 6 furthest east 6' or something.

45 and 46, I'll do some digging round for what sort of things the equipment back then could do.

We're claiming already?!?

Ok, then I say 43 + 44

what's up with section 6? it's there twice with an unnumbered section in between.. oh, and i'll take 8 and 9. 7 as well, if i may. if not, well, we all know what's falling first :) that is a rediculously good map, btw.

Its not there twice! That's 6 and 6'! Yeah, I noticed, but its a bit late to fix. And that's not a border in 6', it's a river.

Ok, I never gave anyone permission to start claiming, but I'll accept whats already been given. I choose provices 6 and 6'...just to solve that little confusion.

All this will be put on the front page btw.

*prods the thread several times*

anyone even still interested in this?

I am, but we do need more people.

ahh. true point.

Hello, is no one else claiming?

hmmm, interesting

it'd be more interesting if more people were interested :D

so... this is dead then?

apparently