NationStates Jolt Archive

After extensive and exhaustive research on the Dyson Sphere concept, the Imperial Nycarian Grand Navy of SeaQuest has decided to build its own version on a scale that would be more feasable. This project will entail building a scaffold-like structure around an entire planet. This structure will have a modular design. The entire structure will be able to act as a planetary shield grid, be used as a giant ship yard, have micro-gravity manufacturing areas, carry enough weapons to defend the planet on all arcs, et cetera.

Stage 1: This stage entails the gathering of enough resources and construction equipment in one place to actually construct this planetary scale Dyson Frame around the SeaQuestian homeworld.

Stage 2: This stage will entail the actual assembly of the structure.

Stage 3: This stage will cover the actual finishing of small details, like adding offenses, power plants, defenses, et cetera.

Stage 1 has already begun.

OOC: Feel free to put in OOC comments now. I'll let you know when IC comments can be made. But just give OOC ones for now.

The 'Dyson Frame' idea will add a lot of mass to your planet as it orbits its star. You might want to check and see how that might effect it (I'm not sure personally)

The 'Dyson Frame' idea will add a lot of mass to your planet as it orbits its star. You might want to check and see how that might effect it (I'm not sure personally)

OOC: I'm treating it like the giant space station it is. Oh, and it was a good thing I kept my Gravimetric Technology. Well I may know enough about physics to get by, the deep, DEEP stuff passes me by. Though, I do know that if I don't attach the structure to the planet, the mass of both are not combined.

OOC: Bump.

OOC: Anyone else with any OOC comments on this?

OOC: Anyone else with any OOC comments on this?

(OOC: No, not really. I myself am building something of comparable, or greater size and scope. Though, I haven't made any claims as to the feasibility of its defense yet.)

(OOC: No, not really. I myself am building something of comparable, or greater size and scope. Though, I haven't made any claims as to the feasibility of its defense yet.)

OOC: The structure is part of the defense for the planet.

This image will show the basic design I'm going for.

http://wackel.home.comcast.net/Geometry/5-FreqOctaGeo.jpeg

The structure will have its own shield system, plus each of the triangle shaped openings will be filled with shields by a seperate system.

OOC: The structure is part of the defense for the planet.

This image will show the basic design I'm going for.

http://wackel.home.comcast.net/Geometry/5-FreqOctaGeo.jpeg

The structure will have its own shield system, plus each of the triangle shaped openings will be filled with shields by a seperate system.

(OOC: Well, I was kind of referring to the defense of my structure. A light sneeze in its general direction would blow it up.

As for your structure, I already envision it will be a decent defense against practically anything.)

Well SQ, it's still a big massive thing that's going to be near your planet. And I imagine you're going to want to use at least some gravitational lock to hold it decently distant from the planet in case of accidents. So while it's still technicly 2 masses, they're going to be so close together and all that they would function a lot like one (unless you don't use a lock, in which case a nudge would disturb the perfect gravity balance and send the planet into one side of the frame)

That would be so awesome to see..the planet going into the cage.


Yeah some kind of gravatational device would be the best bet to keep the thing in place. Or some big magnets but then they would need to be huge and thats too low tech. I'd go with the gravatational locks.

As I still have my Gravimetric technology (from artificial gravity to reactors to engines), perhaps I could put some of my Gravimetric Engines on the structure at strategic points.

Anything else?

ooc: Well, have you considered what effects having such a structure would produce on the sunlight which your planet (I would assume) needs to remain habitable? Also, what sort of effect would it produce on your planets rotation, (though, gravimetric tech would allow you to make the gravity it would produce negligible), what sort of affect it would have on your planets magnetic fields (and vice versa), and other sort of effects. It would seem that building such a large structure around a planet would be noticeable. Just my two cents.

ooc: Well, have you considered what effects having such a structure would produce on the sunlight which your planet (I would assume) needs to remain habitable? Also, what sort of effect would it produce on your planets rotation, (though, gravimetric tech would allow you to make the gravity it would produce negligible), what sort of affect it would have on your planets magnetic fields (and vice versa), and other sort of effects. It would seem that building such a large structure around a planet would be noticeable. Just my two cents.

I was waiting for someone to get around to this.

Sunlight can be redirected through the openings into areas that would be blocked by the structure itself through arrays of mirrors around the opening. Low tech, cheap, and effective.

As for the magnetic field, that's created by the molten core's spin. I don't see how the structure will affect that.

Rotation-wise, as it isn't connected to the planet trough any physical or energy methods, it can rotate in any direction and speed I see fit, or not at all.

Main thing is, with the shielding on-line, no more meteor showers.

As for the magnetic field, that's created by the molten core's spin. I don't see how the structure will affect that.
Big HUGE dense metal object in orbit. You'd be putting way more than the mass of an average moon up there.

Rotation-wise, as it isn't connected to the planet trough any physical or energy methods, it can rotate in any direction and speed I see fit, or not at all.
If this is the case, I don't have to do much to screw this thing over. You'd be floating the planet inside a lagrange point in the center of this thing. All I have to do is put enough momentum into the station, and part of it will hit the planet (and with those types of shields, it wouldn't be pretty)

If you lock it to make sure this doesn't happen, you've got to provide for planetary rotation (or you could rotate the station with the planet)

Big HUGE dense metal object in orbit. You'd be putting way more than the mass of an average moon up there.

Who said anything about making it solid. I was going to go with a tube design to save weight and materials. Also, I never said I was going to make it out of Lead. There are a ton of light materials out there (like ceramics, for example).

If this is the case, I don't have to do much to screw this thing over. You'd be floating the planet inside a lagrange point in the center of this thing. All I have to do is put enough momentum into the station, and part of it will hit the planet (and with those types of shields, it wouldn't be pretty)

But, if then the Gravimetric Engines would kick in an move the structure back to its original relation with the planet.

If you lock it to make sure this doesn't happen, you've got to provide for planetary rotation (or you could rotate the station with the planet)

Ahh, geo-synchrunous(sp?) orbit. My most likely plan.

Who said anything about making it solid. I was going to go with a tube design to save weight and materials. Also, I never said I was going to make it out of Lead. There are a ton of light materials out there (like ceramics, for example).
You're going to want it to be able to stand up to a bombardment. So, you're going to need shields, generators, weapons, and big thick armor.



But, if then the Gravimetric Engines would kick in an move the structure back to its original relation with the planet.
What happens if something transfers momentum to the planet and sends it wierd? (even though most everything that could seriously effect a planet's motion would kill everyone onboard) You're still going to want to gravlock the planet in there.



Ahh, geo-synchrunous(sp?) orbit. My most likely plan.
That plus a decent gravlock, and a constant watch/fine-tunage on your orbit, and you'll be fine.

You're going to want it to be able to stand up to a bombardment. So, you're going to need shields, generators, weapons, and big thick armor.

My standard powerplant:

TYPE


QUANTUM SINGULARITY

OUTPUT


9*1016 Joule per. Kilogram

DESCRIPTION


Quantum/Gravitic reactor is the primary power plant utilized by the Minbari Federation. This system uses a complex series of graviton beams to mimic the destructive power of a black hole on a local scale, creating an artificial quantum singularity.
This self sustaining reactor system destroys all matter introduced into the singularity, creating a 100% energy release. Efficiency of a given ship to exploit this energy release varies.
Process begins with a series of high-energy fusion reactors, which are used to manipulate zero-point energy to mimic gravity and create the singularity. Once the singularity is formed, any and all matter introduced into the reactor is destroyed, creating a massive energy release.
As any form of matter can be used as fuel for the singularity, this form of reactor has a near infinite run time - so long as there is matter to be used as fuel, the Quantum/Gravitic reactor will continue to produce power. In addition, a key byproduct of this form of reaction is antimatter, which can be used both as a weapon or a secondary power source.
Key advantage of the Quantum/Gravitic reactor over a matter/antimatter reactor is system is efficiency and stability. The Quantum/Gravitic reactor only uses half the fuel of an antimatter based system and, unlike a matter/antimatter reactor, should this form of reactor breech the singularity will simply collapse with almost no adverse effects.
Once the singularity is shut down all form of mass compression will cease and, with the exception of one final burst of antimatter, energy production stops almost instantaneously.

Though that may get upgrade before its time to install the shields (which I planned from the beginning), offenses, other defenses, engines, and power supplies.




What happens if something transfers momentum to the planet and sends it wierd? (even though most everything that could seriously effect a planet's motion would kill everyone onboard) You're still going to want to gravlock the planet in there.

To get any kinetic or potentional energy to the planet, you would have to get through the shields of the structure.




That plus a decent gravlock, and a constant watch/fine-tunage on your orbit, and you'll be fine.

I got millions of people who currently have nothing better to do. Might as well put them to work.

I got millions of people who currently have nothing better to do. Might as well put them to work.

Because obviously forced labor = quality.

This thing is a prime example of putting all your eggs into one basket. One very easily destroyed basket.

OOC: I just don't understand the "why" behind this whole project. At least a Dyson Sphere was originally intended to harness energy from a star. But this?


This structure will have a modular design. The entire structure will be able to act as a planetary shield grid, be used as a giant ship yard, have micro-gravity manufacturing areas, carry enough weapons to defend the planet on all arcs, et cetera.


Perhaps I should be more clear. I can't understand why you would want to make an entire cage around a planet when you can do all those things listed for far cheaper and less hassle without a big cage.

OOC: Well instead of wasting your resources on a huge cage why not get a planetary shield with an intense grid of Defense platforms. Planetary shields can resist any form of bombardment at least thats what General Veers in Empire Strikes back says when they arrived at Hoth.

I assume the people on this planet of yours, not to mention plants and animals, don't mind going without sunlight?

OOC: Well instead of wasting your resources on a huge cage why not get a planetary shield with an intense grid of Defense platforms. Planetary shields can resist any form of bombardment at least thats what General Veers in Empire Strikes back says when they arrived at Hoth.
Death Star. Alderaan.

Veers just didn't have the firepower in his fleet. You have to realize it consisted of a WHOPPING... 12? star destroyers and an executor? I honestly can't name a single far FT nation that can only put that little firepower on the scene of a full-out planetary invasion. (Maybe SQ, but he's in fleet revampment) I work with the firepower of probably 2-3 SDs just in discovering new races. (point ship (usually frigate) finds new race, calls in all exploration ships in sector, fleet size usually <15 craft, all under 600m)

I assume the people on this planet of yours, not to mention plants and animals, don't mind going without sunlight?

It's not a full Dyson sphere, it's more like a framework. That way he can actually bend the incoming light through the holes, meaning minimal impact on the planet.



However, I'd be worried about the orbital mechanics with all that mass and momentum. Seems to me that even if you DID gravlock the planet inside the sphere and all, you're going to have to deal with the fact that you're adding a HUGE ammount of mass to your planet. That increases the gravitational attraction between that planet and its star, meaning your orbit will degrade if unassisted.

1.) Thanks for the help there, NE.

2.) The main purpose of this structure is to serve as part of the planetary defense. I included the part about shipyards and stuff because it needs a peacetime use as well as a wartime one.

3.) The structure will, in effect, be taking the place of the second moon which was destroyed in Part II of the Shadow War RP arc (still got three left in the Lunar Defense Grid).

4.) By actually putting the planetary shield grid on the structure, it allows me to have more room on the planet below for things that actually matter, like growing food.

5.) I don't believe in forced labor (IC'ly or OOC'ly (unless you count convict labor)). My citizens get paid for their work.

6.) Degrading planetary orbit? Uh, the planet has 4 moons (3 now as one was destroyed during the Shadow War RP arc) and it still keeps going fine. The structure will be replacing the lost moon. And we can't forget about its Gravimetric Engines.

7.) If need be, I can just build a Lunar scale version in former orbit of the destroyed moon.

2.) The main purpose of this structure is to serve as part of the planetary defense. I included the part about shipyards and stuff because it needs a peacetime use as well as a wartime one.

4.) By actually putting the planetary shield grid on the structure, it allows me to have more room on the planet below for things that actually matter, like growing food.

Umm... won't large stretches of your planet be covered with the manufacturing facilities for this thing? I mean, you can run all your hydroponics down there later, but first ya need someplace to build the componets of the sphere.

3.) The structure will, in effect, be taking the place of the second moon which was destroyed in Part II of the Shadow War RP arc (still got three left in the Lunar Defense Grid).

6.) Degrading planetary orbit? Uh, the planet has 4 moons (3 now as one was destroyed during the Shadow War RP arc) and it still keeps going fine. The structure will be replacing the lost moon. And we can't forget about its Gravimetric Engines.

7.) If need be, I can just build a Lunar scale version in former orbit of the destroyed moon.

Well, you're going top have to calculate masses carefully then and balance. What's happened is the planet and its moons is actually lighter now (less momentum but also less gravitational force) because of the missing one. It's like if we decided to take the moon away from the earth, and I'm not really sure what would happen. The effect of placing the additional mass on the planet will probably not do too much negatively (seeing as you're actually repairing a problem in the system)

However, you're going to have to figure that you're putting a LOT of gravitational force into that thing, especially if you're hoping to replace the lost mass from that moon to stabilize your orbit around the star. You'll have to deal with the increased attraction pulling the other three moons closer, as well as the increase in gravitational force on your planet. (at least I believe so for the second one, not posative though)

Easiest thing to do: build orbiral platforms all above your planet. Find some asteroid that's got a little less mass than the destroyed moon and tow it into the correct orbit. Then turn it into Hosk station or something. Hollow it out some, deck it out with everything you want to, and then add weight until it is close enough to the old moon that the orbital mechanics can be maintained with minimal boosting/slowing.

For the matter of construction:

1.) Can either be built in place,
2.) or on one of the three remaining moons.

As for the matter of the destroyed moon:

1.) Most of the debris is still in orbit and settling into a rough ring around the planet.
2.) A few chunks hit the planet below causing ecological damage still not fully recovered from yet.
3.) Taking forever to tractor the few stray chunks still in random orbits to locations that make them not a hazard for ship traffic.

As for moving an asteroid:

1.) Where would I get engines big enough?
2.) See #3 in the above section on the destroyed moon.
3.) It would be easier just to use the debris from the destroyed moon as construction material for the Frame.

As for the Frame:

1.) Would seperate and independently orbiting sections, enough to cover the arcs around the planet, but not one complete structure be a better plan?
2.) I can build a Lunar Scale one with a giant core section added to the design balance out the mass to equal that of the lost moon.

SQ, I believe I have found a better use for your resources that will be less damaging than the frame. This is a loose idea, but the 3 rings are much better than an intricate lattice.

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a161/anomaly149/ringframe.jpg

The three rings still give you tremendous space, but will cause far less problems than a 'dyson frame.' Lower mass, easier to produce, safer to produce, and alltogether probably more realistic, especially if this is to be a prototype.

@NE: Thanks. The design was never locked in stone. The pic I posted was the most likely design for the protype at the time. In fact, I'll think I'll turn the original into what I'll call a Dyson Moon and build the design you proposed as well. Means I can use the stuff I'm moving into the system plus the debris from the destroyed moon (the ring, while nice looking, is a real shipping hazard).