NationStates Jolt Archive

Alright heres an OOC thread for the comments.

[[Alright seeing as SS's SDs aren't the typical million pounders which I'm familiar with when I hear the term on NS I'll allow it and redo the post, since I didn't RP the whole radar deal. The warheads in the nuclear weapons aboard the subs are just under 1 Megaton each, but seeing as the missiles are moving at that speed I'l edit it a bit and repost here.

Meant this link (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=9586417&postcount=373) for the SDs.

Alright and I admit I possibly did mess up with the missile attack so I'll redo that now.]]

Also statistically/logistically 75% of your ships would be non-combat but they're probably out there anyways. Alright time to repost.

[*Blinks* One megaton? In a SAM?! The Nike Zeus missile had a 20kt warhead and was not what one would call small. In fact, it would be unlaunchable even by the SLBM tubes my navy uses. While allowances can be made for a smaller missile size in relation to the warhead, for a non-ballistic missile, especially a SAM, to have a warhead that large would require a massive missile. For a naval SAM, 1kt might be more appropriate.

http://www.paineless.id.au/missiles/NikeZeus.html
http://www.paineless.id.au/missiles/Spartan.html

Note the massive size of the Spartan with its 5Mt warhead. It's taller than most modern submarines are, I had trouble modifying some of my SSBNs to fit a 10m tall cruise missile. For the Spartan to be even theoretically deployable in the largest VLS I have, dual-length Strategic, it'd have to lose the fins. Also, keep in mind that radar is going to take up volume normally reserved for missiles, the fire control for that radar is further going to cut into the volume for missiles, and the large size of any SAM with a nuclear warheads is going to cause the tubes to take up more volume than cruise missile VLS (which will, you guessed it, cut into the available number of missiles). Oh, and that same radar is going to make your submarine a lot more detectable and would almost have to be a dedicated anti-air unit; that kind of waste would be foolish for a nation with my economy and size, it'd be even worse for a nation like yours.

But hey, I'm not stopping you, it's your nation and your navy, I'm just pointing out the pitfalls of such a design and the effects that it will have.]

In my nuclear submarines. The fall-out will be pretty bad though, as my Sanscions are only used for nuclear strikes, while I rely on Agua class submarines for defense against missiles.

http://www.nationalterroralert.com/readyguide/nuclear.htm

Each Sanscion submarine is capable of holding eight of those missiles. They're really just submersible nuclear weapons platforms. They're larger and bulkier than my Aguas and are really just there to commence nuclear strikes. They'll probably be replaced after the war regardless of what the outcome is.

Who said logistics ships have to make up 75% of a navy? Whoever it is, I want to smack them. Support ships, maybe, but support is a broader term than logistics. Of course, most of NS is populated by teenagers who've never been in the military and don't understand a fine distinction like that.

However, as it happens I screwed up on my fleet list and didn't have a class of vessels. Total fleet strength is actually 5,470. Also, my Gehennas were being counted twice in the budget, so my naval funding is now closer to 6 trillion than seven. Of that number, roughly 15% of my navy's ships are support vessels; of course, if my navy wasn't completely nuclear-powered, it'd probably be closer to 50%.

You said your submarines carried eight nuclear SAMs, right? I mean, you mentioned a 1Mt yield. Or am I losing something in the translation.

No I said the Sanscion Nuclear Submarines are carrying 8 1MT SAMs each. I edited it to make it less insane and ramble-worthy. They were retrofitted in Red Tide since I more or less planned to use them for something other than killing massive quantities of missiles while subjecting people to immense fall-out. Since your missile shield looked as if it would more or less kill that entire wing of the fleet they fired.

*blushes* Sorry, but people have tried using conventional SAMs in the past, almost always citing the short-range SAMs the Soviets mounted on the masts of some of their SSNs, so I have the counter-argument down verbatem.

However, with nuclear SAMs, throwing them up in the air and breaking out the worry beads to say some Hail Marys would likely have the effect you described the second time. Something would survive an attack like the one I launched with the kind of defenses you described, but whatever crew lived with their boats would probably die from radiation overdoses within a couple days.

And you were wondering about my SDs? Well, after I corrected everything, it came out that 22 of my multi-million ton SDs cost the same to fund per year as 168 of the smaller six hundred fifty thousand ton SDs. So, yeah, having that many of the big mofos (as SDs go) would be crippling economically.

Deadly amounts of radiation never hurt anyone!

The Military of Antanjyl never expected the Eastern Fleet to survive long enough for any radiation poisoning to kill them all. Though in a best case scenario they would not have needed to use the nuclear weapons, they still have a few to complete their original purpose. While attacking your fleet with nuclear weapons would almost assuredly bring about a nuclear war, the fall-out created from such could hardly be considered a weapon.

Though yes, I was expecting more help from some of my mysterious allies. Ah well, in the long-run having my government undergo mass-executions and be forced towards being a Republic*shivers* isn't too bad on the short term. >_>

Well, you don't necessarily have to go the French route. After all, my nation has managed to combine a powerful aristocracy unified under a very strong Empress with a working democracy and classical liberal philosophy. But, executing a bunch of bloodthirsty bastards would perhaps be best. Want the executions to be amusing? Let me get ahold of some of them.

Most of the leaders are either already taken out by the top Elite Military Daemons which are now controlling the new Emperor(Which is easy). They're currently wiping away most hints of the old delegation, such as General Albeleo, who is now dead or dying of intense radiation poisoning at sea.

The executions are amusing since we have some of our ideas from Kraven Corporation which has had its eye on Antanjyl for some time now, though Emperor Galf has managed to keep em away. The primary method of torture/execution is using a chisel and yeah... jaw... dentist chair.

Well it would have to be a Republic with Allanea there, since thats his sinister plot to corrupt my poor uneducated people.

So far those killed...

Emperor Galf (Not by the Military).
General Albeleo.
Most of the Old Ministers and Staff.
Slave Master Sirius is rotting in prison somewhere awaiting an execution.
General Gares will also be killed, but they think hes already dead.
The Foreign Minister Daemon Farwell will also be liquidated.
Anyone else who had anything important to do with the previous government.

Its all happening underground though, which is what most of the Imperial Army has been up to at this time while the war effort is happening.

*snorts* Didn't AMF destroy Kraven? Or is he just... *cough* AMF's working girl.

Haha Kraven is a cancerous Corporation. AMF is still invading the original nation though, yes.

Scandavian States... I agree, I'm going to have to call godmode on this.

You mentioned that you spend $6 trillion per year on your navy. Very well. Putting aside the fact that an SD takes on average eight years to build and an entire shipyard, thus—depending on how many shipyards you have—it could take between eight and over a hundred years to build just your SD fleet if you were building nothing else during that time... Your average Super Dreadnaught costs about $40 billion a year to maintain. So basically, with your 112 SDs, you'd be spending $4.5 trillion maintaining them. Then you have over 5,000 other ships you're maintaining as well. There is no way you can afford to have that many ships—both maintenance and building.

My military budget is almost twice yours (for the offencive army only—this is saying nothing of defending the homeland). I arrived at my figure of about 4,500 combat ships through calculating the average maintenance costs per year, and assuming that the Imperial Navy receives about $12-13 trillion a year (including aircraft, after I got rid of the IAF and IAG)... then figuring in the prospective building costs for new ships, port maintenance etc. ... 4,500 is about the maximum I can throw in for my budget, counting every one of my twelve Super Dreadnaughts and six Hyper Carriers. Seriously... I think you need to take that ship list down a notch. Especially SDs, but everything else too... try recalculating maybe.

Also, exactly how many missiles can your heavy cruisers fire? Do you have stats for any of these things? (Yeah, I'm certainly one to talk... *rolls eyes* anyway...)

http://s7.invisionfree.com/FDI/index.php?act=idx

Banduria, you're talking out your ass, man. It costs 1.75 billion per year to upkeep a Halcyon class SD. Upkeeping 168 of them costs 294 billion. It costs 15 billion per year to upkeep a Gehenna class SD (a close cousin of the Doujin) and upkeeping 22 of them costs 330 billion.

Don't make up stats when you don't know a damn thing about my ships. None of you all have asked, you're just presuming. If you'd have asked before shooting off your mouth, I'd have told you everything you wanted to know. Frankly, I want to see the SD that costs more than a Doujin to upkeep in a year, it must be some kind of fucking monster.

psst...SS...what's your nuclear policy?

*snorts* Didn't AMF destroy Kraven? Or is he just... *cough* AMF's working girl.

Please.... I will never be anyones "Working Girl" even as AMF hounds at my gates, the Corporation grows stronger!

Banduria, you're talking out your ass, man. It costs 1.75 billion per year to upkeep a Halcyon class SD. Upkeeping 168 of them costs 294 billion. It costs 15 billion per year to upkeep a Gehenna class SD (a close cousin of the Doujin) and upkeeping 22 of them costs 330 billion.
Apologies there... I was looking around the various storefronts, I guess some people aren't exactly accurate that way...


Frankly, I want to see the SD that costs more than a Doujin to upkeep in a year, it must be some kind of fucking monster.
Here (http://s14.invisionfree.com/PIW/index.php?showtopic=1).

It's apparently a pocket SD, too. (Unless that's the running costs for, say, 10 years and not 1.)

I have just one question then... how long exactly did it take you to build all of these SDs? Because the tech hasn't exactly been around forever, unlike what some NSers seem to assume.

And while we're here and critisizing budgets, how do you afford the budget you claim? You realize that you're not only taxing people out of their ass, but you're doing so while spending more than half of it on defense, another quarter on your security services, fifteen percent on commerce, and what's left on administration. You're providing exactly zero services for what you claim, your people have no money between paying taxes and paying for what is necessary to live. There's nothing left to drive an economy from the private sector and your government isn't doing it.

So, you know what, you might outspend me on defense, but I'm doing what I claim with a 15% flat tax rate and a realistically thriving economy while you're in your corner of the world immitating North Korea.

Apologies there... I was looking around the various storefronts, I guess some people aren't exactly accurate that way...


Here (http://s14.invisionfree.com/PIW/index.php?showtopic=1).

It's apparently a pocket SD, too. (Unless that's the running costs for, say, 10 years and not 1.)

I have just one question then... how long exactly did it take you to build all of these SDs? Because the tech hasn't exactly been around forever, unlike what some NSers seem to assume.


Well, the latest batch (140) I did in one fell swoop, but it's taken me roughly 500 years to get the capability to do that.

As for Sarzonia's SDs, there has to be a reason his are that expensive. I've never noticed it before, but I'll have to ask him about it.

psst...SS...what's your nuclear policy?

Use one nuke on my military or holdings and I'll wipe your nation from the face of the earth. And then I'll occupy what used to be your nation to kill off the cockroaches so no viable ecology can regrow.

Ah now that the war is almost over everyone will just need to stick around for that durned election. I'll wait till later tonight to start with it. O_o

However I may give more time for it later on.