NationStates Jolt Archive

OOC: If MF doesn't show up then this might turn into a modern day Munich Conference ...







Hosting a conference on your own soil was never easy, especially when several of those in attendance were on hostile relations with each other. But this one had to take the cake. A rogue state breaking away from the United States nearly triggered a nuclear war, and now Jaime Wolfe had foolishly offered to host a conference to settle the matter once and for all. Most of the nations in attendance were smaller, fiercer nations, eager to prove their value to the international community. However, there were also to be delegates from such nations as Anagonia and Maraque, nations that could crush all those involved without batting an eye. Thinking about it, he supposed Haraki was one of those nations, as well. Imposing on other nations' business just to maintain their own interests, or, in this case, try and avert a nuclear showdown.

And so here he stood, waiting for delegates from other nations to arrive so they coudl discuss the future of a smaller nation. A nation threatened with invasion, apocalypse, and protection all in the same day. Sometimes protection by some nations was the worst choice you could be offered. Sometimes it was the best. In a way, this conference would help determine which was which.

The conference was to be held in the port city of Susa, in northern Haraki. An entire floor of a luxury hotel in the heart of the city was reserved for the foreign delegates, and a large meeting room in the same hotel was already set aside for them. Now all that was left to do was to wait for them to arrive.




Current list of attendees:

Haraki
Quaon
Maraque
Bronzeland
Theryman
Anagonia
(?)Minnesotan Federation
(?)United States of America
Kippl
Azazia (United Kingdom)

OOC:Theryman, not mine. This could mean war... jk.
And my nation isn't too small.

IC:Ryan M. Harp was the first to arrive. He would usually have sent an aid, but he felt like going this time. It sounded like it would be a blast. Hopefully not literally, though.

He entered his hotel room. It was very nice, although maybe a bit small. He ordered some liquor from the hotel, and ordered his guards to stand watch at the door. He was weary from the long flight.

OOC: I could squash you like a bug! Just kidding. Sorry about the mistake, edited post above.



All guests have the same hotel room, which is a large but simple room. All the standard hotel fixings. Wall between the sitting room and bedroom, bathroom tucked into the corner. The delegates will arrive and settle into their hotel rooms, then tomorrow (NS time) the conference will actually start.

i regonize mf as a free and indepentent nation.

ooc: MF asked the UK for formal recognition before the whole situation developed, and so in order to decide whether or not to establish full relations the UK wants to ensure the saftey and sovereignty of MF, which is why I hope you don't mind the UK attends the conference./ooc

In his late fifties William Argyll relaxed in his leather seat, which had been tilted back to a comfortable reclining position so that he could close his eyes and sleep. It had only been hours ago when word had reached the Ministry of Foreign Affairs that the state of Minnesota had declared its independence and asked for formal recognition by the United Kingdom, and with that an exchange of embassies and personnel. However, the image of ambassadors being incinerated by nuclear weapons haunted not just Argyll, but the rest of the government and so he had been dispatched to Susa, Haraki where a conference was to be held in the hope of settling the issue.

Your Lordship, a soft feminine voice called out.

Argyll slowly opened his eyes, warm and brown though set somewhat deep in a face that had seen the result of decades of fine living as the Earl of Chatham. For some twenties years he had been serving the government in the capacity as an ambassador of goodwill to foreign countries, being sent to numerous conferences such as these where he represented King and Country. Yes, he managed to force out, not knowing he had slept for over five hours.

The pilot would just like to inform you that we have begun our descent.

Shortly afterwards, Argyll pushed his rotund personage up from the comfortable seat, which now had a near-lasting impression of his presence, before gathering his briefcase that contained the pertinent information regarding Minnesota and the recent events. As he gripped the railing from the door’s stairwell with his free hand, Argyll smiled at the sight of the waiting limousine that would whisk him to the luxury hotel that would be his home for the next few days. And as the last of his aides piled themselves and all the luggage into the automobile Argyll leaned back into his new seat and decided to look out the tinted windows at a city he had never seen before.

Argyll was taken in the limousine through the edges of the city on one of the main roads. The airport, within sight to the north of the city, was right beside the coast. About a kilometre from the airport, waves crashed against the cliffs that were the shoreline in this area. The highway closing the distance between the city and its airport was traversed in short order by the limousine with Argyll and his entourage in it. There were few outlying regions of the city out here, and in any case the city of Susa frowned on subdivisons. No suburbs were present. instead, there were larger detached houses forming affluent neighbourhoods in the north of the city, stretching up and away into the apartment buildings and office skyscrapers of the downtown core.

The limousine had been driving for about ten minutes through traffic and lights when it finally slowed down and stopped in front of one of the hotels in the core of the city, at least fifteen stories tall. A man in a black suit stepped up from where he had been standing on the sidewalk and opened the door for Argyll and his entourage. He showed them in through the lobby, explaining the eighth floor was reserved for dignitaries. He first took them to the fifth floor, where he showed them the conference room set out for this meeting, then to the eighth floor where he showed them their rooms.





OOC: The hotel is complete with swimming pool, restaurant, bar .. You name a high-class feature of a hotel, it's got it.

As the King and the President walked off the plane, followed behind by 10 Imperial Agents, they made there way to a waiting Bentley Arnage RL limousine.

As they made their way through the city and to the hotel, they couldn't believe how beautiful this country was, their eyes kept busy by the wonderful surroundings they were seeing. They finally got to the hotel, and went to the room with the other leaders.

The Prime Minister of Quaon, Quin Orbor, exited his flight as it landed. Flanked by two ambassadors and four security guards, he hired a limo and checked into his hotel. Once he checked into his room, he took his cell phone out and called his wife.

"This is the Quaonese Capitol Building. How may I help you?" a secretary answered.

"Hey, Anna. Can you get my wife on the phone, please."

"Of course, Mr. Prime Minister."

Quin talked with his wife for about a half hour, mostly about the fact that she was pregnat. After the conversation was over, Quin left for the conference.

He arrived flanked by the other diplomats, and took a seat.

To come to this conference was the most mysertious man in all of the Anagonian Spectrum, Caster Oblivion. At one time, he was very open on foreign policy, exposing his face, and being polite. However, nowadays, he concentrated mainly on the matters themselves, and his life. It was a good day for him to come to a conference, one to delegate the future of a smaller Nation. The Motherland was already rebuilding Red Frozopia as these events unfolded, and another Nation under its wing would be somewhat complicated.

But Caster knew better, he knew Anagonia could take many Nations under its wing. Of course, two right now was enough, and the People were at their limit currently for war. So, obviously, he was both representing the Peoples interest, and Anagonia's interest at the same time. The Peoples, as always, came first.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Many hours later Caster came in through the hotel doors, going up to the meeting area dressed in a casual suit of dark red. It was his favorite color, and presented his personality well. How they would take it, was unknown.

As President Christine Gregoire arrived at the hotel, she wondered about how the U.S should react to the secession. Just a year ago, Cascadia, which was made up of Washington, Oregon, British Columbia, and the Alaskan panhandle, had seceded. It was peaceful, unlike this attempt. Also, the Secretary General of NATO, Jaap de Hoop Scheffer, was along to ask if Minnesota wanted to join NATO.

OOC: Sorry for the short, pointless post, but I'd rather not individually RP each of you going to your rooms.

Also, Cascadia, what's NATO like these days? I was one of the founding members, and from what I hear it's mostly degenerated into a rather loose mutual defence treaty.





The delegates from the different nations were showed to their various rooms, all on the eighth floor, and informed the conference would start at nine in the morning the next day. Still, no delegates from the United States or Minnesota itself had arrived. If they didn't show up, signs pointed to the Susa Conference being a modern-day Munich, where the fate of Minnesota would be decided without them being represented there.

Having only been in power for a year, Ryan had not been to too many summits. However, this one was the best of the whole two he'd been two. Little sausages! And the cooks even agreed to make him gourmet salami and cream cheese. Yum.

If he ever had to choose one country to not blow up, this would be it.

OOC: When will we actually start? Tommorrow morining?

Quin sat down on his bed, sipping a bottle of Pepsi. He had quite enjoyed this nation's restuarants, and was exhausted. He turned onn the news, just to make sure nothing had happened, than went to sleep.

OOC: If it's okay, I'll represent the Canadian territories and provinces of Alberta, Saskatchewan, Manitoba, Ontario and Nunavut; as well as Greenland (included in the Roman protectorate of "The Republic of Canada"). I typically RP including British Columbia but that's already taken, so I won't.

For the record, I posted in the other thread that Minnesotan Federation started.

I'll also RP my own arrival if I can get in. I won't be online until tommorow afternoon at the latest.

IC:

Since the Roman Empire wishes for the continued safety and stability of North America, Rome wishes to send representatives to the conference for both the Empire and its protectorate in Canada.

Thank you.

As Rome has already been involved in this incident, we welcome your delegate to our nation.





OOC: We're just going to wait until other people arrive here before we start the conference. Because everybody would arrive the same day, we'll just assume that until they do arrive it's still the first day.

If all approve, given that my nation is the closest equivalent to the US, I'll rp as the US. If not, ignore this.

Robert B. Zoellick, Deputy Secretary of State, checked in at the hotel. He swore under his breath when they rejected his credit card, and swore again when they demanded that he exchange currency prior to paying. He continued to swear as he walked into his room. What right had Minnesota - or nearly the entire West Coast, for that matter - to secede, and why did all these nations he had never heard of before suddenly want to stick up for these secessionist states? At least warn us that you're thinking of leaving...

Whittier Foriegn Minister Heigel Schenzoff arrived at the hotel. His government having good reason to be worried about US intentions in light of Minnesota's recent move toward independence.
Heigel had only recently become Whittier's foriegn minister after the reunification that had followed the chaos. His thoughts wandered, from Minnesota, the US reaction, to missing nukes, and the need to rebuild his nation's badly damaged economy and infrastructure. At any rate, he thought to himself, his mission at the conference was simply black and white: support Minnesotan independence. If the US were allowed to retake Minnesota, he'd been told by the Secretary General, what would stop the US from trying to retake other nations such as Cascadia or even Whittier itself. Fortunately, he had one secret, that the remnants of Whittier's forces were being moved to eastern borders of New Mexico, Colorado and Wyoming, Whittier's eastern border with the US to guard against an American invasion. But as much as he thought it best to keep such moves secret, he was told to notify the other participating governments of the move. The move was a defensive gesture in light of Whittier's fears of an American military invasion. It was imperative to get US assurances that they would not invade any of the seperatist states. Above all, he was to make clear that an invasion of Minnesota would be seen as an invasion of Whittier.
His aid having brought up his stuff, Heigel found his to the bar/lounge.

Caster Oblivion had just reviewed the recent news on Anagonian Foreign Affairs, and its Activities. He sighed, having been showed to his room a few hours before, he had plenty of time to review, and to look at his notepad and play a few games. Of course, he logged a report concerning the situational happenings. In his conclusion, Caster believed that the Minnesotan Federation was well worth the fight. Of course, he noted that the United States was a well-kept ally.

Sighing as he rubbed between his eyes, he closed his notepad computer, and layed back on his bed. Yawning, he cut out the light, having already set the clock, he fell fast asleep.

OOC: Just gonna get started. Anybody arriving after this will be arriving late. That includes Minnesota, sadly enough.









Morning had come and nine o'clock was already upon them. As millions of people outside the hotel started their workdays, the doors to the meeting room opened for the first delegate, who walked in shortly before nine o'clock to the conference room, where a long table was sitting. At the far end a massive man in a grey suit was sitting, leaning on the table with his fingers steepled together in front of his face. At first glance one may have mistaken him for some manner of security, but upon closer inspection he was actually the prime minister of Haraki, Jaime Wolfe. He nodded to the delegates, greeting them individually by names as they shuffled in.

A few minutes after nine, when all the delegates had arrived, Jaime reached down into a briefcase located beside his knees and pulled out a small file of papera, placing them on the table in front of them. He turned away from them to face the assembled international representatives, all looking to him for some sort of guidance, and so he started off the meeting simply. "As you all know, we're here because of the recent rash of splinter nations forming out of North American territory. Although not all our nations are North American in location, we all have our interests here and so we are all present here today.

"Our main topic of discussion is the catalyst for this conference and also a nation not represented here today, because of their choice not to attend the meeting. The recent breakaway by the Minnesotan Federation from the United States of America. I'd like to ask Deputy Secretary of State Robert Zoellick to address us on behalf of the United States and give us their viewpoint on the situation. Mr. Zoellick?"

OOC: Since no one has Quebec, I'll take that too.

The Roman delegates- Governor Lucius Marius Rodemari and Canadian Consul Gilles Duceppe listened intentively as the conference began. They arrived yesterday with high expectations. The Romans were most interested in averting a war, and saw themselves as mediators. They had already bailed out Canada before following the collapse of Paul Martin's government, and the last thing they wanted was a costly war.

Duceppe, on the other hand, wondered why he was there. Duty called, but the Quebecer still hadn't yet adjusted to ruling Canada. He was chosen only because the Romans believed no one else was fit enough for the job, and while every day he grew more and more comfortable with it, he just wasn't at the stage where he could call himself a Canadian nationalist. He hoped this conference would be the catalyst...

OOC: I am talking about the real NATO. I hope you don't mind if I RP them.

Caster Oblivion sat a few seats down from the US Represenitive in the talks, he intentivley watched and listened to everyones emotions and expressions, even the slight mumbles that went on here and there. He coughed, covering his mouth to make it silent. It was a bit too quiet in here....tooo quiet.

OOC: I am talking about the real NATO. I hope you don't mind if I RP them.

Right. Sorry, I thought you meant the New Alliance Treaty Organization, an alliance I was one of the four founders of over two years ago. No problem with you RPing the real NATO at all.

Zoellick stepped up to the microphone, then briefly spoke.

"The United States has remained a unified whole for almost 150 years. Now, however, certain divisive elements of the country mean to split us off and ruin our long-standing democracy. They stand against democratic traditions; not one is the fairly elected head of their state. Yet they desire recognition from us, as if giving up half the country is something any nation would reasonably accept.
"Why have these self-proclaimed 'nations' even chosen to leave? Do they not like our government? Well, ours is a Federal Democracy; states can choose to pass their own laws as they see fit, barring a few guidelines, and unpopular governments can be thrown out of power. Do they see our government as dictatorial? We are not dictators; we believe in and support democracy. Indeed, that is why we do not recognize these so-called nations that seceded from the Union; the duly elected democratic governments of these states have not voted in favor of secession.
"We do not recognize these so-called nations, and will not do so."

With that, he sat down.

President Christine Gregoire stood up and said, "Cascadia seceded from the U.S because we wanted to handle issues at a local level. Also, 69% of the voters voted for independence in a fair election monitored by the UN. I would also like to say that I think that the voters of Minnesota should be able to vote in an election monitored by the UN on the issue of independence like we did."

Se then sat down. Then the Secretary General of NATO, Jaap de Hoop Scheffer, stood up.

'As the Secretary General of NATO, I would like to invite Minnesota and Whitter to join NATO if they want to. As they share many ties with the U.S, everyone would benifit from this. The U.S could provide military protection for both countries, while the U.S gets military bases and a place to base the Pacific Fleet, which has been forced to move to Hawaii and Cascadia. Also, 3M, an important contactor for the U.S military and one of the largest companies in the U.S, is based in Minnestoa. Cascadia still has many U.S military bases in it. This has been very successful, since it lowers Cascadia's defense budget, no jobs are lost near the bases, and the U.S can still defend a strategic area that is important both militarily and economicly."

OOC: To the American states: did any of you hold referendums for soveriegnty?

Zoellick stepped up to the microphone, then briefly spoke.

"The United States has remained a unified whole for almost 150 years. Now, however, certain divisive elements of the country mean to split us off and ruin our long-standing democracy. They stand against democratic traditions; not one is the fairly elected head of their state. Yet they desire recognition from us, as if giving up half the country is something any nation would reasonably accept.
"Why have these self-proclaimed 'nations' even chosen to leave? Do they not like our government? Well, ours is a Federal Democracy; states can choose to pass their own laws as they see fit, barring a few guidelines, and unpopular governments can be thrown out of power. Do they see our government as dictatorial? We are not dictators; we believe in and support democracy. Indeed, that is why we do not recognize these so-called nations that seceded from the Union; the duly elected democratic governments of these states have not voted in favor of secession.
"We do not recognize these so-called nations, and will not do so."

With that, he sat down.

Duceppe was quick to reply.

"For a nation that has talked so much about honour it is simply amazing how much you don't act it," stammered Duceppe. "You talk of democracy and yet you remove democratically elected governments that do not suit your need. You believe the world should act on your whim, and you are very much the dictators you say you are not.

"Furthermore, all these secessions have been popular ones. These are not opportunists Mr. Zoellick- these are people working for the people, and you won't win them back by acting tough. The ball is your court- it is up to you to please them."

Upon hearing Duceppe's words, Zoellick grew enraged. He bellowed, "What are you talking about, 'removing democratically elected governments that do not suit your needs?' We are not removing democratically elected governments; we are creating democracies overseas."

Calming down a bit, he thougth, then spoke:
"Ms. Gregoire, if you wish to handle local needs and interests, handle them the way any other state of the union does and just pass your own laws. There was no need to secede. However, apparently you did vote fairly for secession. Therefore, we will consider recognizing your independence.
"As for Minnesota, had their duly elected government approved secession, we would consider a UN referendum. Yet the state government of Minnesota has not voted in favor of secession. Governor Pawlenty himself has informed me that he is a staunch unionist and rejects the notion of secession.
"As for the secessionists in Minnesota, they have done no harm and committed no crime, so they will be treated as ordinary citizens of Minnesota and of the US. We will not harm them, but will not consider recognizing their independence."

With that, he sat down.

Upon hearing Duceppe's words, Zoellick grew enraged. He bellowed, "What are you talking about, 'removing democratically elected governments that do not suit your needs?' We are not removing democratically elected governments; we are creating democracies overseas."

"That is why you funded a force to remove Daniel Ortega from Nicaragua," said Duceppe. "That is why you aided government rebels to remove Jean Bertrand-Aristide from Haiti. I could name more but I don't have the time."

Before Zoellick could reply, Rodemari cut in, trying to draw attention away from Duceppe's words. "Listen, Mr. Zoellick, I understand you're a bit disturbed that you are losing states," said Rodemari, "but understand that you are walking a very fine line. We are worried that a lack of dialouge will lead to massive insurrections, which is something that we wish to avoid. You must be open to the fact that these states no longer wish to be a part of the Union, because we fear that an unwillingness to see in that direction could cause another Civil War.

"Our aims are, nevertheless, to see that the wishes of the people of the United States and its successor states are met. North America has had a peaceful existence for the last two hundred years- let's keep it up."

"The people of Minnesota have spoken. Why is this so hard for the US to understand? I propose that the people of Minnesota vote in a UN monitered election to see if they would like to continue as a member of the US. The US represents democracy. Now take that further. Actually show democracy. Let the people decide."

Zoellick, frustrated, saw that the conference was slipping away. He had to make a conciliatory gesture of some sort; losing Oregon and Washington would be tough, but bearable. Losing everything, however, would not be. He spoke, entirely ignoring Duceppe's remarks:

"Gov. Rodemari: We, too, want peace on the continent. We are willing to recognize the independence of Oregon and Washington; they have already held a referendum in favor of independence. For the moment, until a similar one is called for by the government of the state of Minnesota, we will not be able to recognize the independence of that state. However, if such a referendum were called for, and passed by, let's say, a 2/3rds majority, then we'd probably recognize them.
"Secretary-General Scheffer, we feel that your recommendation of our maintaining bases in Cascadia would be most appropriate. Thank you."

With that, Zoellick hoped to turn the debate towards the issue that he felt most comfortable with: Minnesota. Hopefully everyone would ignore Duceppe's remarks.

Heigel listened intently to the US ambassador then responded:

"Fellow delegates, the states that form Whittier, did in fact hold referendum on independence several years ago. Yet, the US has still not recognized us to this day. And let me remind the US representative of some of the reason we seceded: the establishment of a theocracy in Washington with federal law enforcement imprisoning people for violating laws that were based off nothing but some minority group's interpretation of the bible. The fact that poor Elian Gonzalez's family was brutally beaten nearly half to death by the American's ATF and then the child was abducted at gun point by the same government and deported, several incidents were nonchristian groups were not only harrassed but exterminated by federal agents and troops, for example Waco, the fact that the federal government continued to steal state land for illegal national parks and kick people out of their own homes and off their own property to create legacy national parks that had nothing to do with wild life preservation or even conservation but rather was nothing more than a grab for raw power at the expense of the people of the states of California, Arizona, New Mexico, Colorado, Wyoming, Nevada and Utah. Need I also remind the US delegate of the match that lit the Western independence fire? The fact, captured on video and televised around the world, of federal justice department agents beating the crap out of several youth because the color of their skin. While the agents got off scott free, the youth, who we all now know were innocent of any crime, were carted off to prison on false charges of drug trafficking and being Al Qaeda sympathizers. Charges we now know were false as evidence by findings that the evidence used against them was falsified by the American regime in Washington.
Let there be no doubt, that we will never return to American tyranny and it is our policy, that if any other states, having held a referendum, choose to walk a different path from Washington, we will support them through all means necessary. Should America, try to forcefully reintegrate or use any other methods of violence against the people of Minnesota, my government has ordered to me to make clear, such an act on the part of the US will be taken as an act of war. Let me also make clear to the American delegate, that my government believes his government to be behind the assassination of our last Secretary General and that, due to concerns about our territorial integrity, we have begun to move troops to the Whittier/America border area. Further, we have mobilized our anti-aircraft batteries to defend our skies. You have a few troops illegally on Whittier territory Mr. Ambassador, I call on you to remove them. If, as you say, your government accepts the outcomes of referendums, then why doesn't your government recognize our soverignty and remove the forces it has on our lands?"

He sat down to hear the American response.

President Darius Shulze stands up

"The people of Minnesota have had no visible opposition to the break away from the United Stats. Yes, I believe that a referendum should considered, but it is blatently obvious the people of Minnesota are not eager to be a part of the Union of the United States any longer. They had every right to do what they did."

The President sits down.

Heigel listened intently to the US ambassador then responded:

"Fellow delegates, the states that form Whittier, did in fact hold referendum on independence several years ago. Yet, the US has still not recognized us to this day. And let me remind the US representative of some of the reason we seceded: the establishment of a theocracy in Washington with federal law enforcement imprisoning people for violating laws that were based off nothing but some minority group's interpretation of the bible. The fact that poor Elian Gonzalez's family was brutally beaten nearly half to death by the American's ATF and then the child was abducted at gun point by the same government and deported, several incidents were nonchristian groups were not only harrassed but exterminated by federal agents and troops, for example Waco, the fact that the federal government continued to steal state land for illegal national parks and kick people out of their own homes and off their own property to create legacy national parks that had nothing to do with wild life preservation or even conservation but rather was nothing more than a grab for raw power at the expense of the people of the states of California, Arizona, New Mexico, Colorado, Wyoming, Nevada and Utah. Need I also remind the US delegate of the match that lit the Western independence fire? The fact, captured on video and televised around the world, of federal justice department agents beating the crap out of several youth because the color of their skin. While the agents got off scott free, the youth, who we all now know were innocent of any crime, were carted off to prison on false charges of drug trafficking and being Al Qaeda sympathizers. Charges we now know were false as evidence by findings that the evidence used against them was falsified by the American regime in Washington.
Let there be no doubt, that we will never return to American tyranny and it is our policy, that if any other states, having held a referendum, choose to walk a different path from Washington, we will support them through all means necessary. Should America, try to forcefully reintegrate or use any other methods of violence against the people of Minnesota, my government has ordered to me to make clear, such an act on the part of the US will be taken as an act of war. Let me also make clear to the American delegate, that my government believes his government to be behind the assassination of our last Secretary General and that, due to concerns about our territorial integrity, we have begun to move troops to the Whittier/America border area. Further, we have mobilized our anti-aircraft batteries to defend our skies. You have a few troops illegally on Whittier territory Mr. Ambassador, I call on you to remove them. If, as you say, your government accepts the outcomes of referendums, then why doesn't your government recognize our soverignty and remove the forces it has on our lands?"

He sat down to hear the American response.Quin Orbor shook his head. Well, looks like diplomacy is over.

The President stands up once more

We are here to prevent war! Not promote it!

The President stomps his hand on the table, and sits.

Zoellick, extremely mad, shouted, "A theocracy! That's what you think we are? We are not, nor will we ever be, a theocracy!" Realizing that raging against Whittier's delegate would not help, Zoellick calmed himself down, then said, "We apologize for the actions of the previous administration. We will probably recognize your regime, and right now ask you to stand down your troops. As for your accusations of false evidence in the case of Abu Hamid Sayyaf, these are wholly untrue. Sayyaf was a dangerous threat to national security; although force was used, a full FBI investigation revealed that the amount of force used was not unnecessary. However, all that is immaterial.
"What is material is that no referendum on possible independence has been held in Minnesota. Failing this, we cannot recognize the independence of that state; if the people of Minnesota do not choose to leave our nation, then we will not force them out."
Zoellick knew, even as he said his remarks, he'd be fired the instant he returned to Washington; no matter, he would simply deal with that when the time came. Hopefully, he'd avoid warfare; with the army as overstretched as it was, despite what Rumsfeld said, Zoellick knew that a war would be a disaster. Speaking of disasters, there was one more card left to play...
"Of course, you all realize that these secessions will ruin the economies of North America, right? After all, the stock market will surely plunge the instant we recognize your independence; it's currently staying afloat due to the confidence placed in our nation's government. And with us goes everyone else, in terms of the economy..."

"Ignoring the truth won't make it go away," said Duceppe, who knew he was being ignored, "one day you will own up to it. I'm not going to let you take away these states' rightful independence like your government has done to others in the past."

"Gentlemen, is this a conference hall or a playground? We come here to find solutions, not to throw barbs," said Rodemari. Man, if this is the best they can do across the Atlantic, I pity the people, he thought to himself.

Heigel, realizing that his statement might have caused more apprehension among the delegates than called for, spoke to disarm the situation:

"I must apologize to my fellow delegates if I sounded somewhat rash and running forward into war. My government does not want war nor do I. I was only instructed to make my government's position clear to the US. While I appreciate Mr. Zoellick's intent, I must question his authority to make such a statement on the behalf of his government. We want confirmation from the regime in Washington that they will accept our right to exist. Further, the youth I spoke were Arams Johnson, and Mike Douglas, both African American males from South Central Los Angeles. I remember the case of Mr. Sayyaf and he was indeed a terrorist who was preparing to blow up Disneyland. The case I spoke, the two men were found, by the American Supreme Court, to be innocent and I note, the Court also ordered the American government to pay them tens of millions of dollars in restitution.
Furthermore, Mr. Zoellick has not responded, to charges that have been ciculating in my nation, that the administration he represents, was responsible for the assassination of the departed Secretary General Breznekov.
As for a force stand down, I cannot give that. America would have to do two things before we stood down our forces: 1. remove all American forces and agents from Whittier land, 2. Recognize our right to exist a seperate nation and as equals in the community of nations of the North American continent. Only then will I be able to get my government to stand down its forces."

Zoellick knew he had to confront Duceppe, and figured that, given the momentum shift in his favor from his shows of generosity and diplomacy, now was as good a time as any. He stood and spoke:

"Mister Duceppe, we do not intend to 'take away' the independence of nations that we have just recognized. They will not need you to protect them. And I would like to note, for the record, that you were appointed to your post provisionally, rather than democratically elected by the Canadian people."

With that said, Zoellick hoped to move on.

"Yes, I was appointed by the Roman Government," said Duceppe, "but if you look at the public opinion polls, they will show you that I have 57% of Canadian support. I have done more for Canada than any of the other politicians have done in years. So do not think for one second that I do not have the support of Canadians.

"However, these ad hominem (sp?) attacks on myself will get you nowhere. We are not here to discuss my status but the status of the United States of America. You have more pressing issues than my legitimacy.

"I do, however, recognize that I may have gotten a little carried away and digressed this discussion, and it is not my intention for this to turn into a fight of barbs. I will not, however, back down my support for the independence of Minnesota, Whitter and Cascadia."

Rodemari just sat there, hoping above hope that some statesmen could be made out of these cavemen...

Zoellick, glad to see that Duceppe was ending his attacks on America's reputation, smiled for the first time today, then said:

"We have just recognized Cascadia and Whittier, and until the democratically elected government of Minnesota decides to hold a referendum on independence, we cannot recognize the demands of secessionists in that state."

"Will your government agree to accept UN sponsored referendum for the people of Minnesota?" asked Heigel.


OOC: I've noticed Minnesota hasn't posted. Anyone know what's up?

"Good then," said Duceppe. "Finally we see eye to eye on something." He smiled. He still didn't like the United States, but he realized it would be counterproductive to turn the discussion into a yelling match.

"If a decision is to be reached allowing for a referendum on Minnesotan independence, Canada will offer to monitor it."

"As will Rome," chimed in Rodemari.

I'm not sure what happened to MF. I'll TG him tonight; if he doesn't reply, who knows?

"When they call for a referendum; the UN can come if it chooses to do so. A referendum for independence will probably be on the Minnesotan ballot this November; if Minnesota wants to secede, it will vote in favor of it." Zoellick, relieved, and about to be relieved, replied. At least he had avoided war, and possibly kept Minnesota in the union.

President Christine Gregoire was relieved that they had a good solution. Meanwhile, the Secratary General of NATO stood up.

"I would like to thank all of you for finding a peaceful solution. But there is one more thing. Whitter, have you considered my offer for you to join NATO?"

Caster Oblivion, having no actual reason for being here, just sat back and listened, watching, taking it all in. He really didn't have an opening, and somehow, he thought H enever would. So, with a silent sigh, he kept sitting, and observing.

President Christine Gregoire was relieved that they had a good solution. Meanwhile, the Secratary General of NATO stood up.

"I would like to thank all of you for finding a peaceful solution. But there is one more thing. Whitter, have you considered my offer for you to join NATO?"
"I have to consult my home government on that matter."

"The USA is congratulated for finding a peaceful solution to this split. Thank you."

Jaime Wolfe watched the argument rage back and forth. He had become lost in his own thoughts on the matter, and had legitimately forgotten to mediate the discussion and prevent a shouting match. As it seemed to have calmed down by now, he saw no reason to offer a reminder to remain civil. However, he had to satisfy his own curiosty by this point, and turned to Zoellick. "Mister Zoellick," he said calmly, in stark contrast to the other man, who, at least to Jaime, appeared to have ruptured a blood vessel, or at least looked the part.

"I'm interested to know how your government would react if more states decided to break away. Say ten states all independently held referendums and seceded from the nation at the same time, how would the United States respond?" He reached down into his briefcase and pulled out a tape recorder, placing it on the table with the microphone end of it pointing towards Zoelick. "Please be aware that I am taping your answer."

"Also, you claim your nation never imposes its will on other people, and never oppresses others. I will not bring the subject of slavery to the table here, as your nation abolished that practice long ago. However, during World War II Japanese-Americans were placed in internment camps for fear of domestic spying while German-Americans were not. Racism seems to flourish within your nation more than anywhere else in the world, as can be seen by the somewhat biased arrest and trial of Mumia Abu-Jamal, or the imprisonment of people from other nations in Guantanamo Bay for supposed but never proven ties to invisible terrorist organizations. At the same time you seem determined to remove your citizens' civil rights, with such things as the Patriot Act, or this most recent illegal wiretapping of supposedly dangerous cityizens. In the south of your nation, the Confederate flag is flown as part of the flags of multiple American states, and the South is so proud of this fact that when a governor ran with one of his policies being making the Confederate flag smaller in his state's flag - Not removing it, mind you, merely making it smaller - he lost by a landslide unpredicted by anyone. The Confederacy, I might add, was founded so that slavery would be a lagal practice, and was responsible for the deaths of nearly three hundred thousand American lives. Al Qaeda has been responsible for about one hundredth of that. If someone were to place an Al Qaeda flag on their state's flag, they would lose by a landslide, and rightfully so. But trying to make the flag of one of the greatest traitors in American history smaller warrants a similar result? Correct me if I am wrong, but should your people really be proud of a racist who killed three hundred thousand Americans? I am confused by all this. The state of your nation makes me ... confused, but at the same time I can see the appeal of seceding from such a nation."

With that he sat back and smiled slightly as he watched Zoellick's reaction.

Amalsuth Mohammed, one of the other ambassadors from Quaon, and one of Arab decent, knew it was time to speak up. He had been casually taking notes for the earlier part of the conference, but the Prime Minister had coached him on what to do in this moment, and he was going to do just that.

"And tell me also, Mr. Zoellick, why the US decides to torture suspected terrorists in Cuba, where the American public won't see? And please tell me, why the hell is the US in Iraq. Saddam Huesain had no "Weapons of Mass Destruction, and was a strict dictator. In general, Dictators hate terrorists. They cause desent. Now, please also tell me why you violate the princepals of a fair trial with the abomination known as "The Patriot Act." Is a man not a patriot if they actually want to uphold the consituition? And the US is a member of the UN. Why does it ignore it basically everyday. Do answer, Mr. Zoellick, I am extremly interested."

Zoellick was indeed annoyed. However, as soon as he heard the words "taped," he calmed himself down, and said, simply,
"I'm sorry; this is a private meeting. Further, I am only authorized to talk about events currently occuring, not those that occurred in the past or could occur in the future. Further, given that the issues we have gathered here to discuss are settled, I move that we end this meeting."

Zoellick was indeed annoyed. However, as soon as he heard the words "taped," he calmed himself down, and said, simply,
"I'm sorry; this is a private meeting. Further, I am only authorized to talk about events currently occuring, not those that occurred in the past or could occur in the future. Further, given that the issues we have gathered here to discuss are settled, I move that we end this meeting."
"Uh huh. Mr. Zoellick, you are in a country which made this conference not just to talk about the suceeding of Minnesota, but America itself. Now please answer the questions."

"Sorry i'm late" Said Grand Kippl Kommander Talon, "I was tied up with a war in my region." "I believe that Minnesota should have full rights away from the US and be able to be its own nation." Started GKK Talon, "And to add to it I will send my extra troops that aren't fighting against the traitorisous Orgistin Liberals...And to clarify this I didn't start the war Orgistis did." "I will also send 1,000,000,000 dollars to Minnesota as a starter for their nation."

Prime Minister Quin Orbor shook his head. Whispering to the nearest diplomat he said "Who invited him? Didn't he threaten to nuke anyone with any connection to Minnesota?"

Zoellick felt like he was being blindsided. It took everything within his power to keep his cool. He mentally reminded himself, They're recording me, they're recording me...
"Amalsuth Mohammed, I understand your concerns about our foreign policy. However, we are here to discuss issues pertaining to the North American continent, rather than the counterterrorism policies of the US. If you have concerns about these, I'm sure there will be time after this meeting ends for you to talk to me in private. I apologize, but this is not a matter for public discussion, like any other diplomatic meeting.
"Mister Talon, you were not invited to this meeting. Please leave, now."

Hoping to end the meeting on a good note, Zoellick added, "I am glad that we have managed to work out an equitable solution to the problems facing North America today."

"Oh yes. Because if I actually found out about the deep dark secrets of the US, you'd invade Quaon. Don't give me this bull, you-"

He was cut off by the Prime Minister. He had just lost his job.

"I'm terribly sorry, fellow leaders. Mr. Mohammed has had a bad experiance with an American soldier in Iraq. We both deeply apologize."

Heigel interrupted to back and forth:
"Gentlemen, I must agree with the American representative that we are here to discuss matters of concern to North America. If it is not related to North America it does not belong here.
Mr. Zoellik, my government also wants to know how the US would respond to more states choosing to break off from the union?

SCENE: Imperial Palace, Shaz City
"Why wasn't i informed about a conference on Minnesotan Independance?" Galen yelled as he walked into the room of his top advisers. His face was beat red and you could see the vein on his forhead sticking out several centimeters. Everyone stopped talking and looked over at him shortly after he entered the room

"Sir. We thought it wasn't at all important for the Empire. I know that your parents were..." Galen cut him off.

"It is important because I FUCKING SAY it is important. Now it's been going on for some time. Goddamnit! I am surrounded by fucking morons here." He stormed out of the room and walked back to his office. He punched a few walls as he was walking, which made office workers poke their heads out their doors after he passed by them. When Galen was in this mood, people knew not to get in his way, so everyone walking down the hall stepped into side halls or into other people's offices so that they wern't in his way. One person though didn't move and galen shoved him into the wall, knocking him unconcious. "Won't you people get the FUCK out of my way?"

He opened the door to his office and the knob slammed into the wall, creating a dent in the drywall. Looks like the facilities crew will have to come down again and repair it. They were just contemplating putting a door stop an inch off the wall so the door didn't damage the wall again, but they wern't allowed to. Galen then quickly typed up a message to the nation hosting the conference.

***OFFICIAL PROCLIMATION***
To: Leadership of the Nation of Haraki
From: Galen Q. Leotardia, 2nd Emperor of the Pure Socialist Holy Empire of Shazbotdom

It has just been brought to my attention of the conference that is taking place in your nation. Now while i am busy with national affiars at this time, I do wish that my nation take part in this conference in support of the Minnesotan Federation. I request that a small deligation be present at the conference, it will be lead by my darling wife, Miranda. I will have 2 armed guards though with her at all times (except in the conference room) to make sure that nothing happens to harm her. Although if it is too late for another deligation to arrive at your conference then I request a video system be set up so that I can be a part of the conference while I am working on my duties here in the Empire. I hope that either one of these options is acceptable to you.

Zoellick finally relaxed. He spoke:
"In response to your question, Minister Schenzoff, assuming that the referenda held were done through legal means, I don't see any reason why we would not necessarily recognize such nations. However, I cannot comment on the policy of future administrations, though I would hope that they would do as I would."

With that, he sat down, hoping that this ordeal was over. He made a mental note to talk with Mr. Mohammed; perhaps Zoellick might be able to ease Mohammed's mind.

The Harakian prime minister remained calm. Zoellick was scared, he could tell that much. The man was in over his head, and had now resorted to now answering questions to try and save face. So, in a further effort to get his questions answered, Jaime Wolfe continued. "I'm sorry, Mr. Zoelick, but this conference is not just on the Minnesotan secession, it is on the current state of affairs in and the future of North America. As the Minnesotan issue appears to have been settled, with the solution that a public referendum will be held, overseen by international observers, I suggest from all present nations, I suggest we move on. The conference is far from over, gentlemen.

"And so I must ask you to answer my previous question, or at least address it. As the United States is still at least one of the dominant powers in the region, the American policy viewpoint and diplomatic stance is incredibly important to the stability of the entire continent. Since we may be seeing the downfall of the American Empire, with all these breakaway states, I would very much like to see and hear the American viewpoint on the crumbling of its domestic holdings. Mister Zoellick, if you would?"

He hoped to set the man off again. Although the entire conversation so far had been taped, the revelation of the recorder's presence had made a significant change on Zoellick's mannerism. Jaime hoped to set him off again. He'd hoped the American Empire statement would do at least part of the work.

Noon had come and lunch trolleys were wheeled in by servants who began to hand out food to the delegates. Mildly extensive research had been done to determine at least what they were willing to eat, and so each was served with something appealing to them.


*


[To:] Galen Q. Leotardia, 2nd Emperor of the Pure Socialist Holy Empire of Shazbotdom
[From:] Vanessa Spence, Deputy Prime Minister of Haraki

Your delegation is more than welcome to attend the conference on the independence of the Minnesotan Federation. Either of the options outlined in your message is acceptable to us, so please feel free to choose which one you will abide by. We only urge that you hurry as the conference has already started.

The security measures outlined in your prior message seem entirely acceptable. Your delegation will be met at the Susa airport and dirven directly to the meeting place.

Vanessa Spence

OOC:
Will post arrival 10 to 12 hours from this post.

A delegate sitting next to Darius Shulze taps him on the shoulder

Wha - what? Oh, sorry! I fell asleep!

His aide summarizes the recent shouting match to keep him up to date

As the shouting match wore on, Rodemari's thoughts conflicted. On the one hand, he knew very well that Zoellick was using the periods of calm to push his own views and dominate the other people assembled there. On the other hand, if order wasn't restored, he feared the consequences would be much worse- like an actual war.

"Gentlemen", said Rodemari. "Are we children or are we statesmen? This shouting match will solve nothing- it will only lead to more animosity and that is not what we need.

"I will say that the concerns raised here are legitimate concerns, and I do believe they must be addressed. These states broke away from the Union because they felt threatened, and this feeling alone is a grave security risk. So far, the United States has stated it will recognize these states- now we must go a step further, hopefully to reach some sort of diplomatic or even an economic or political agreement.

"Most importantly, we need dialogue, because without it, all we'll be doing is fighting each other, and I wish not for that to be the future of North America."

President Christine Gregoire stood up and started to speak.

"I would like to propose that the nations of North America form an economic union, like the European Union, except it will have only economic powers, not political powers. We could have a common currency and no tariffs on trade between members. It would also allow us to have a single economic policy designed to help all of us, while leaving each member free in their political affairs."

Wolfe turned to Gregoire. "Sadly, such an agreement has already been established, albeit to a smaller extent, in the North American Free Trade Agreement. It didn't work. The principles of free trade only benefited the corporations which could move their manufacturing base to Mexico, with worse regulations environmentally and personally. The Mexican environment was destroyed because of it, and their economy crippled, while at the same time over one million jobs were lost in Canada and the United States. Not only that, but the United States did not even recognize the rights of the agreement in disallowing softwood lumber, one of Canada's main exports, to cross the border without tariffs. No, an economic union is not the way to solve this problem, which is wholely political anyway."

Those of us who have relatively recently acquired our independence do not really desire to give up any of it.
You know what they say, first economic union, then political union.
Not for us at this time.

Zoellick, upon hearing the words 'American Empire,' smiled slightly. He knew that Wolfe was trying to set him off; he knew not to do so. So he spoke:

"Prime Minister Wolfe, we want only peace on the North American continent. Obviously, the suddenness of these secessions has surprised us; however, given the semi-autonomous nature of states of the US, I expect that people will only barely recognize the changes. As for the issue of a possible economic union, I understand there is opposition to it; however, nations are free to join NAFTA if they so choose."

The food cart came then; Zoellick took his hamburger and set it down on the plate on his desk, then continued,

"Governor Rodamari, we are interested in the idea of a political, economic, or at least diplomatic alliance with the new nations of North America. It is our hope that North America should stand together on the world stage; we work best together and worst apart, as the recent secessions in America, scandals in Canada, and joint successes in Afghanistan all show."

With that, he sat down and ate his lunch.

SCENE: Conference Room in the Nation of Haraki
A technition walked into the conference room wearing a red jumpsuit with PSHEoS on his sleeve. He walked quickly and quietly to the end of the room and put a camera there. He then opened a briefcase and turned it toward the other deligates. He then hooked up a LAN cable to the wall and pushed an ON button. It was sophisitcated technology, using no computers to set up a teleconference. He then walked out of the room. The same thing was happening in the Office of the Emperor at that exact moment, and when the ON button was pushed at that location, the Emperor and the Deligates came face to face, per say.

Galen: "Hello Gentlmen. I'll be presiding in this conference for the interests of the Pure Socalist Holy Empire of Shazbotdom. I am Galen Q. Leotardia, the Emperor of the Pure Socalist Holy Empire."

"If possible, I would like to send a delegate, but as an observer, not a participant."

--Imperator J.L. I--

"I believe an economic deal of some sort is in order here," said Rodemari, "if only to restore the economic network the old United States had. We must face the reality here that none of the states here are really self-sufficient, and that the American model has survived for so long that the transition from it will be a long, painful and potentially devastating process."

"Well, I won't sign any deal that's one-sided," replied Duceppe. "NAFTA worked to the benefit of the United States and no one else, and I'm not going to be suckered into another deal like that. Perhaps, for the sake of North American stability, if we can negotiate a better deal here that would be ideal. I just fear that without an economic arrangement we may plunge North Anerica into war because of a competition for resources."

"Agreed. What we need here is treaties, not war. Mr. Zoellick, the Empire of Quaon had predicted such an event, and prewrote a treaty. If you would like to see it and think on it, I have it with me."

OOC: It can say whatever you want.

Free import/export of goods and services (w/o tariffs), removal of preexisting tariffs, anything anyone else would like to add; Quaon, please don't respond to this post for two hours to allow time for others to weigh in.

Zoellick, truly pleased, replied, "We would indeed be interested in seeing this proposal."

Free import/export of goods and services (w/o tariffs), removal of preexisting tariffs, anything anyone else would like to add; Quaon, please don't respond to this post for two hours to allow time for others to weigh in.

Zoellick, truly pleased, replied, "We would indeed be interested in seeing this proposal."
OOC: I won't be on then, so just roleplay me giving you the proposal.

OOC: nations should be able to pass and enforce safety and health laws even if those laws prevent products from other nations from entering their borders. And once in nation, the products and or services become taxable at just like all other stuff in the nation, at the same rate as domestic products or services of the same kind are taxed.
And they should be able to pass environmental preservation laws to protect their national environments too.

Jaime leaned forward, addressing the entire table, including the screen set up by the technician. "Mr. Duceppe, you left out an important part of NAFTA, and one of the main beneficiaries. NAFTA benefited the United States and it benefited multinational corporations, which resulted in the Maquiladora factories that have become so infamous. But yes, you have a definite point. NAFTA was one-sided. Its benefits and drawbacks were too unbalanced in favour of the corporations that caused all NAFTA's downsides.

"If an agreement is to be made, it must first be thought out. We have seen the successes and failures of NAFTA, and also of such things as the European Union, and so we know what we can do to amend those things in any new treaties formed. With an ecomonomic agreement on the table, I believe we need to do a lot more work than we have so far to establish the rules and guidelines for such a treaty, so as to avoid the same parts of NAFTA that were responsible for so many ... bad things."


*


[To:] Imperator J.L. I of Roach Busters
[From:] Vanessa Spence, Deputy Prime Minister of Haraki

Your delegate is welcome to attend the conference, either as an observer or a participant, which is your choice. In either case, we urge that you hurry, as the conference has already started.


Vanessa Spence

OOC: The availability of resources in one country by another is up to the sole discretion of the resource owner. At no time is a country obligated to provide a resource to another country.

(I suppose we're making this whole thing up as we go, though I think Beltway's and Whitter's posts are contradicting each other)

OOC: The availability of resources in one country by another is up to the sole discretion of the resource owner. At no time is a country obligated to provide a resource to another country.

(I suppose we're making this whole thing up as we go, though I think Beltway's and Whitter's posts are contradicting each other)
OOC: In what way?
If they are, it might be in with the character of the relationship between the 2, with Whittier being suspicious of the US. Maybe we should role with it. See where the disagreement plays out. What do you think.

OOC: In what way?
If they are, it might be in with the character of the relationship between the 2, with Whittier being suspicious of the US. Maybe we should role with it. See where the disagreement plays out. What do you think.

OOC: Beltway's provisions calls for "Free import/export of goods and services (w/o tariffs) and the removal of preexisting tariffs". Yours calls for those goods to be able to be taxed upon entry, which amounts to a tariff (or it could be construed that way).

I say we roll with it- the discussions will be livelier that way.

OOC: Beltway's provisions calls for "Free import/export of goods and services (w/o tariffs) and the removal of preexisting tariffs". Yours calls for those goods to be able to be taxed upon entry, which amounts to a tariff (or it could be construed that way).

I say we roll with it- the discussions will be livelier that way.

OOC: Interesting interpretation. Actually my proposal was that the agreement could not bar nations from placing taxes on the foreign stuff that they place on the domestic stuff. I was talking stuff like sales taxes, regulation taxes (rt's include health and safety stuff).
But the discussion would be more interesting with the misinterpretation.

OOC: Interesting interpretation. Actually my proposal was that the agreement could not bar nations from placing taxes on the foreign stuff that they place on the domestic stuff. I was talking stuff like sales taxes, regulation taxes (rt's include health and safety stuff).
But the discussion would be more interesting with the misinterpretation.

OOC: Yeah, but what is a tariff? A tax imposed on imports. What are imports? Foreign goods. Usually tariffs are assigned upon entry, but it still amounts to a tax imposed on foreign goods- hence, potentially, a tariff.

OOC:

So, since I had absolutely no use being here, should I go?

OOC: If you really must, Anagonia, but isn't there some way your character could just get involved instead?



Also, guys, try and kill the OOC talk. If you want to talk about tariffs, take it IC. After all, this sort of discussion is the reason we're having this conference.

OOC: If you really must, Anagonia, but isn't there some way your character could just get involved instead?



Also, guys, try and kill the OOC talk. If you want to talk about tariffs, take it IC. After all, this sort of discussion is the reason we're having this conference.

OOC: I didn't really think that my nation would raise the tariff objection so I didn't; but fair enough.

IC:

"This is one confusing document," said Duceppe. "On the one hand, we are told that we cannot impose tariffs, but on the other hand, we are told we can assign taxes to foreign goods once inside our country. Correct me if I'm wrong, but are those not tariffs?"

Zoellick read the proposed document, furrowing his brow, then was about to speak when Duceppe spoke. Zoellick thought for a moment, then said:

"We, too, are concerned by this proposal. No tariffs means no tariffs, and allowing taxes on foreign goods, separate from ordinary taxtation on goods, seems to be a violation of the proposal. We should clear up the text; we would suggest removing the section of the proposal permitting taxes on foreign goods, other than those levied on specific goods from all sources. Otherwise, however, the draft proposal seems fine."

Caster Oblivion rose another interesting point.

"What if we wanted Minnesota?"

Zoellick, surprised by the sudden shift in topic, replied, "We've already come to the conclusion that Minnesota's status as a state of the United States will be changed if and only if the citizens of that state choose to do so."

Caster Oblivion rose another interesting point.

"What if we wanted Minnesota?"
"You would be in a war with the Federation of Minnesota. Simple as that."

"Just like Georgia was to Nodea Rudav," he smiled, "I see. Well, either way-" he considered both represenitive views "-I believe that you do have a point. Its the same way with Tarriffs, either view has different opinions on it, and either way should be decided by the people."

He pointed a finger up, "You see, letting the PEOPLE decide is a must, for it is their money going into that trade. For us to take Minnesota, would require the Peoples permission. Same with War, our People must decide."

Caster nodded happily, "This is how the tarrif problem should be decided."

"I have another question. If New York attempted to break away, and they held a referundum, would you try and stop them?"

Caster shook his head, "Nope. If the People decide, we cannot intervene."

Caster shook his head, "Nope. If the People decide, we cannot intervene."
"Mr. Oblivion, I was actually talking to Mr. Zoellick. I have no intention of stopiing any country from going on its merry way, but what about America?"

"I'm not going to agree to free trade," said Duceppe. "At least not in the manner of NAFTA. If we can allow the governments to determine what can and cannot enter our nation- and in what quantity- then I will accept."

"Mr. Oblivion, I was actually talking to Mr. Zoellick. I have no intention of stopiing any country from going on its merry way, but what about America?"

Caster hurfed, saying under his breath: "You looked at me...beh."

OOC: Yeah, but what is a tariff? A tax imposed on imports. What are imports? Foreign goods. Usually tariffs are assigned upon entry, but it still amounts to a tax imposed on foreign goods- hence, potentially, a tariff.
OOC: It's not a tariff if it also applies to domestic goods.
Tariffs are taxes are levied only on foreign goods.

OOC: I didn't really think that my nation would raise the tariff objection so I didn't; but fair enough.

IC:

"This is one confusing document," said Duceppe. "On the one hand, we are told that we cannot impose tariffs, but on the other hand, we are told we can assign taxes to foreign goods once inside our country. Correct me if I'm wrong, but are those not tariffs?"
IC: Heigel spoke,"Our proposal is not for a tariff, but rather to say that foriegn goods are subject to the same taxes as domestic goods and that their foriegn origin does not exempt them from such taxes."

"You would be in a war with the Federation of Minnesota. Simple as that."
"And the Union of People's Republics of Whittier" added Heigel.

Heigel gave the Whittier position on trade:
"Our government, through the Secretary General, approves trade deals. From there, the Politburo must approve it. For us, we have no need of a popular referendum.
Our position on this deal is that it must not an instrument for intervening in the internal affairs of member nations by bigger stronger nations as has happened with such trade deals in the past.
Therefore, we must insist, that foreign origin not be usable as an excuse to exempt products from normal taxation that domestic goods are subject to.
Further, we will not agree to any trade deal, that promotes or tolerates inadequate living wages or unsafe/unhealthy working conditions. Nor will we agree to any trade deal that would allow corporations to destroy the environment."

Zoellick spoke:

"I apologize for misconceptions about our position on trade. We also support the idea that foreign and domestic goods should be taxed the same; we simply want to ensure that no tax can be levied on foreign goods alone.
"If New York attempted to secede, and a referendum were held through legal means, I don't see any reason why we could forbid them from seceding, as painful as it would be. Seeing as how other seceding states have gained international support, it seems unlikely that New York would not. However, this is rather immaterial."

Zoellick spoke:

"I apologize for misconceptions about our position on trade. We also support the idea that foreign and domestic goods should be taxed the same; we simply want to ensure that no tax can be levied on foreign goods alone.
"If New York attempted to secede, and a referendum were held through legal means, I don't see any reason why we could forbid them from seceding, as painful as it would be. Seeing as how other seceding states have gained international support, it seems unlikely that New York would not. However, this is rather immaterial."
"Really? New York is the place where half of your economy works. Would you truly leave well enough alone?"

"Really, I don't know; if the same kind of international support arose for NY as for MN, Cascadia, and Whittier, we might not find even NY to be worth it. But enough with hypotheticals - let's get back to discussing the trade pact," Zoellick, mildly flustered, replied.

"The big thing for me is the protection of resources," said Duceppe. "Under the old NAFTA agreement Canada was hog-tied to providing resources even when we needed them. We will not relinquish them this time unless there is a surplus."

"Governor Duceppe, that seems to be more of an internal policy concern, given the proposal on the table; the free trade agreement being proposed says nothing about requiring companies to sell goods. If you could elaborate on your concerns..."
Zoellic, relieved to be back on topic, replied with a noticeable smile.

"Under NAFTA, if something is sold once as a commodity, the government cannot stop its sale in the future," said Duceppe. "We do not want a similar provision in any new agreement."

"Under NAFTA, if something is sold once as a commodity, the government cannot stop its sale in the future," said Duceppe. "We do not want a similar provision in any new agreement."
We believe that exemptions to such a rule should be made for purposes of national security.

We believe that exemptions to such a rule should be made for purposes of national security.

Duceppe looked at Heigel with astonishment. "I'm not sure what you mean. I think you misinterpreted what I said- I said I do not want to be forced to give up commodities if I need them. I think that works in the interest of security, no?"

Duceppe looked at Heigel with astonishment. "I'm not sure what you mean. I think you misinterpreted what I said- I said I do not want to be forced to give up commodities if I need them. I think that works in the interest of security, no?"

Heigel responded. "I know what you mean. I agree with it. Its just that it would be easier to get if we put it in the context of national security. There may be times when my own nation will be needings its own resources. Therefore, such an arrangement would benefit not ony your country but mine as well. As well as those here who may in the future face such problems."

Heigel responded. "I know what you mean. I agree with it. Its just that it would be easier to get if we put it in the context of national security. There may be times when my own nation will be needings its own resources. Therefore, such an arrangement would benefit not ony your country but mine as well. As well as those here who may in the future face such problems."

"I understand that you may not want a deal that's easy for your trading partner to back out of," said Duceppe, "I just fear that if we put restrictions on when we cannot trade a resource it will be more debilitating, since the nation will be hamstrung in its decision-making due to bureaucracy. Resource trade and availability should be up to the country, period."

Zoellick smiled broadly. Finally, something important he and Duceppe could agree on! However, Zoellick had to clarify something in Duceppe's statement:

"I agree with Governor Duceppe. However, to be more precise, resources should be made available based on the decisions of the companies owning the resources, as long as those decisions do not conflict with the laws of the country where the resources in question are found. Just a clarification, really..."

After sitting and listening to the conversations for a while, Galen finally spoke up via his satelite linkup through the laptop computer that was set up in the room near one of the sitting chairs.

"Now, I may not know much about 'Free Trade', but I feel that there should be safeguards to make sure that no illicit substances are being brought across boarders without proper concent from the local athorities."

Zoellick smiled broadly. Finally, something important he and Duceppe could agree on! However, Zoellick had to clarify something in Duceppe's statement:

"I agree with Governor Duceppe. However, to be more precise, resources should be made available based on the decisions of the companies owning the resources, as long as those decisions do not conflict with the laws of the country where the resources in question are found. Just a clarification, really..."

OOC: Duceppe should actually be referred to as "Consul Duceppe". He's not the Governor (which in this case oversees the protectorate for the Romans)- Rodemari is.

He always seems to want to one-up me, thought Duceppe. Hmmmnnn.... "I am going to tell you no company will be able to interfere with the needs of the Canadian government, because I will not let them," replied Duceppe.

Zoellick, flustered by his accidental error but also bemused by Duceppe's indignant reply, gave a reply of his own:
"Governor - no, wait, sorry, Consul; my apologies for mistitling you - Duceppe, as long as you do so in a legal manner, then that is acceptable. We would prefer free trade, of course, but it is not our decision what you will do..."

Heigel's computer phone rang and he answered.
He spoke to the other end and listened.
"Right sir, I understand." haning up the handset.

He spoke to the delegates, "I have just confered with my government. Whittier will not be joining any alliances at this time until home gets more information.
As for this trade pact, home base has just stated they will not agree to a treaty creating a trade block. It is Whittier's preference to establish free trade agreements on a bilateral nation by nation basis rather than a multilateral regional basis. My instructions from my capital do not permit to agree to this new trade block you are talking about."

Zoellick, flustered by his accidental error but also bemused by Duceppe's indignant reply, gave a reply of his own:
"Governor - no, wait, sorry, Consul; my apologies for mistitling you - Duceppe, as long as you do so in a legal manner, then that is acceptable. We would prefer free trade, of course, but it is not our decision what you will do..."
OOC: I forgot to differentiate between "OOC" and "IC" there. The title correction should be completely OOC- ICly, I've said nothing on that regard.

Unless you want me to make that correction IC (in the interests of RPing).

IC: Rodemari intervened. This seemed to be more of a matter of international politics than just simply a North American affair.

"The policies of the Roman Empire are quite clear- the borders are open to foreign companies, but once they are inside Imperial territory, they are subject to Imperial law. No company is allowed to subvert that, and we will pursue no treaties that supports that."

He then took a look at the proposal itself:

Article 1: Free import/export of goods and services (w/o tariffs), removal of preexisting tariffs.
Article 2: Nations should be able to pass and enforce safety and health laws even if those laws prevent products from other nations from entering their borders. And once in nation, the products and or services become taxable at just like all other stuff in the nation, at the same rate as domestic products or services of the same kind are taxed.
And they should be able to pass environmental preservation laws to protect their national environments too.
Article 3: The availability of resources in one country by another is up to the sole discretion of the resource owner. At no time is a country obligated to provide a resource to another country.

"This needs to be expanded and clarified. I shall add from our discussion:

Article 1: This treaty shall create a free-trade zone across North America, allowing for the free import and export of goods and services (hereafter labelled "products"). No tariffs will be allowed to be placed on these imports and exports.
Article 2: Nations will be permitted to place taxes on these products upon arrival into the country, provided that these taxes are not exclusive to the imports themselves.
Article 3: The availability of the products shall be up to the sole discretion of the owner in question, provided it does not contravene the laws of the nation in which the resource is being extracted from.
Article 4: All 'branch plants' of companies are subject to the laws of the host country.
Article 5: In times of national crisis, resources are allowed to be monopolized by the resource-holding country. Under no circumstances is a nation obliged to yield access to its resources."

I assumed that Zoellick was quietly told of his mistake by an aide.

Zoellick looked over the proposal. He then smiled slightly, and said simply, "We're happy with this proposal."

I assumed that Zoellick was quietly told of his mistake by an aide.

Zoellick looked over the proposal. He then smiled slightly, and said simply, "We're happy with this proposal."

OOC: Ah, okay.

IC:

Duceppe smiled, partly because he had to since Rodemari was his boss and partly because he genuinely liked the proposal.

"I agree with the proposal."

Heigal's phone rang and after a few minutes, he hung up.

"This proposal is acceptable to my government."