NationStates Jolt Archive

Baltimore Shipyards hereby requests assistance in designing a new dreadnought for the export market. We need help with the railgun, along with general advice on dreadnought design in general. We will share production and export rights with any shipyards that choose to help. Thank you.
Sincerely,
Adm. Thad Cochrane (ret.), CEO of Baltimore Shipyards
Adm. Michael Mullen (ret.), Head of the Research Department of Baltimore Shipyards

To: Adm. Thad Cochrane (ret.), CEO of Baltimore Shipyards; Adm. Michael Mullen (ret.), Head of the Research Department of Baltimore Shipyards
From: Derek Reisner, CEO, Consolidated Arms, Inc.
Re: Dreadnaught Design

Greetings from Consolidated Arms, the premier arms manufacturer in the Democratic Imperium of Halberdgardia. We have been known more recently for our aircraft designs, but we have also recently acquired a naval works and multiple shipyards both in Halberdgardia and abroad, and are looking to expand into the naval manufacturing industry. As such, we would be more than happy to cooperate with Baltimore Shipyards on its dreadnaught design. We look forward to your response.

Respectfully,
Derek Reisner
CEO
Consolidated Arms, Inc.

To Derek Reisner, CEO, Consolidated Arms, Inc. -
Excellent! Please fly your engineers out to Thurgood Marshall Baltimore-Washington International Airport; we have a charter flight out to our large shipyard in Lewes arranged for you. Thank you for your response.
Sincerely,
Adm. Thad Cochrane (ret.), CEO of Baltimore Shipyards
Admiral Michael Mullen (retired), Head of the Research Department of Baltimore Shipyards

[OOC: Hey, TB, I sent you something regarding the design via TG, so please check your inbox. It's late for me here, so I'll post my engineers' arrival sometime tomorrow. Looking forward to working with you!]

The Shipyards at Wuller and Farthing would be glad to help with your project. Our designers are some of the best in the world, with extensive experience in Dreadnaught class designs. Addittionally. the Camden Bay Shipyards facility in South-East Mondoth is one of the only shipyards in the world tooled to build ships (Including Dreadnaught and Superdreadnaught class) in a stable environment without the need to ever shift construction into the water until the entire ship is completed. Our revolutionary Dry construction docks alow an unparralled level of exactness and design flexibility for large ships.

To Wuller & Farthing Shipyards, Mondoth -
Thank you for signing on! Please fly your engineers to Thurgood Marshall BWI Airport; we have arranged a charter flight to bring them to our large shipyard in Lewes.
Sincerely,
Adm. Thad Cochrane (ret.), CEO of Baltimore Shipyards
Admiral Michael Mullen (retired), Head of the Research Department of Baltimore Shipyards

bump

With the Royal Navy set to begin looking at a replacement for its old yet venerable King John class we here at Carson and Wolff believe that a collaborative design with our new partners in the Beltway could prove extremely useful in developing a new dreadnought. Currently our largest yards can accommodate hulls only up to 200m in length and at this time, with the future of the dreadnought still uncertain given its status as being in the preliminary stages, Carson and Wolff is not yet ready to expand to larger facilities. Nonetheless, should our offer be accepted we will send naval architects and engineers to the Beltway in order to begin planning for the proposed ship.

Michael Carson
CEO and President
Carson and Wolff

To Michael Carson, CEO and President of Carson and Wolff
Your offer is indeed accepted. Fly your team to Thurgood Marshall BWI airport; we've arranged a charter to our large shipyard at Lewes. Thank you for joining the team.
Sincerely,
Adm. Thad Cochrane (ret.), CEO of Baltimore Shipyards
Admiral Michael Mullen (retired), Head of the Research Department of Baltimore Shipyards

To The Beltway:

MP Ordnance Corporation is interested in helping you develop a new Dreadnought. Our corporation has many large naval shipyards capable of handling ships up to two kilometers in length as well as a great deal of expertise in shipbuilding and naval warfare.

To the CEO of MP Ordnance Corporation -
Welcome aboard! Please fly your team out to Thurgood Marshall BWI airport; we have arranged a charter flight to our large shipyard in Lewes. Thank you for joining our design team.
Sincerely,
Adm. Thad Cochrane (ret.), CEO of Baltimore Shipyards
Admiral Michael Mullen (retired), Head of the Research Department of Baltimore Shipyards

-MSGDATA
MSGSENDER: Commodore Lara Raine, Military Export Department, Chief of Naval Exports
MSGRECIPNT: Adm. Cochrane, Adm. Mullen
MSGSUBJCT: Naval Dreadnought Export Program
-BEGINMSG

Admirals,

It has come to my attention that you are seeking assistance with the design and construction of a naval Dreadnought ship, with at least one railgun. I have decided to take on this matter personally. My subordinates are skilled enough in dealing with military organizations seeking to purchase smaller warships, but Dreadnoughts are rare. Therefore, I have decided to function as a liaison in this case personally.

We can design a ship entirely to your specifications, or we can put forth our own designs to allow you a choice. However, before we can design anything, we need to know a few things;
-How big must the ship be? This need not be confined to actual dimensions, if you were to say you wanted "a siege driver roughly half the length of the ship, sticking out the front" we could manage that.
-What purpose must the ship serve? Is it to be a generic naval combat unit, or is it meant solely as a heavy shore bombardment vessel?
-Could you extrapolate on "railgun"? Do you mean you want railgun turrets as main weapon, or do you want a massive Siege Driver firing shells the size of frigates?
-What do you want it to look like? Must it look menacing, or must it appear harmless? Is it to be metallic-grey, or do you want blue camouflage paint, or a deep dark green to blur the contours of the superstructure?

If you would be so kind as to answer the above questions, we can begin designing your warship. I'm afraid I cannot come to your yards personally, nor can I send one of my subordinates; our communications will have to be carried out via long-distance messages.

Yours sincerely,

Commodore Raine

-ENDMSG

To Commodore Lara Raine, Military Export Department, Chief of Naval Exports -

Thank you for joining our design team; even though we are separated by such long distances, you will still be able to contribute. We will ask for input on questions that arise, and will keep you involved via teleconferences.

Sincerely,
Adm. Thad Cochrane (ret.), CEO of Baltimore Shipyards
Admiral Michael Mullen (retired), Head of the Research Department of Baltimore Shipyards

To all participants -
Our dreadnought is intended to carry six to twelve 25" ETC guns; we apologize for any misperceptions we may have put into people's minds. The first, most basic question, we pose for you: What should be the basic design, monohull, twin-hulled SWATH, trimaran, etc.? We are currently planning on using a trimaran design; should we stick with that? Thank you.
Sincerely,
Adm. Thad Cochrane (ret.), CEO of Baltimore Shipyards
Admiral Michael Mullen (retired), Head of the Research Department of Baltimore Shipyards

For further notice, and for ease of discussion, this project is hereby named the America-class Dreadnought.

-MSGDATA
MSGSENDER: Commodore Lara Raine, Military Export Department, Chief of Naval Exports
MSGRECIPNT: Adm. Cochrane, Adm. Mullen
MSGSUBJCT: America-class Dreadnought: First Draughts
-BEGINMSG

Admirals,

Our design team has been working hard on the America-class Dreadnought you wish to purchase lately. They are pleased to announce that they have completed the first draught of the design; they have rendered several images to give you an example of how the ship would look like.

aitp://lwmw.deptmilexports.gov.lunath/naval/designs/dreadnoughts/draughts/america-class/fwstrbrdgun.jpg (http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/6275/fwportgun3pd.jpg)
One of the main railgun turrets. This turret is situated near the prow of the starboard outrigger hull. The ship is equipped with six of these guns.

aitp://lwmw.deptmilexports.gov.lunath/naval/designs/dreadnoughts/draughts/america-class/strbrdsecguns.jpg (http://img83.imageshack.us/img83/248/portsecguns3tu.jpg)
The starboard secondary gun battery. The ship has one of these on either outrigger hull. They are made up by four 8" shell cannons and two large-bore heavy flak cannons per battery.

aitp://lwmw.deptmilexports.gov.lunath/naval/designs/dreadnoughts/draughts/america-class/portdepthcharges.jpg (http://img93.imageshack.us/img93/6341/strbrddepthcharges5uh.jpg)
A view of three of the total of twelve depth charge launchers, designed to give the ship much-needed short-range anti-submarine protection.

aitp://lwmw.deptmilexports.gov.lunath/naval/designs/dreadnoughts/draughts/america-class/porttorptube.jpg (http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/5892/strbrdtorplnchr8gp.jpg)
The port prow torpedo launcher. The ship is equipped with two torpedo launchers, above the waterline, to provide medium-range anti-ship/anti-sub attack capability. The launcher's magazines can house a wide variety of torpedoes, from the standard satellite-guided high explosives to armor-piercing torpedoes to EMP warheads to micro-nukes with limited radioactive fallout.

aitp://lwmw.deptmilexports.gov.lunath/naval/designs/dreadnoughts/draughts/america-class/missiletubes.jpg (http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/7031/missiletubes6bb.jpg)
A bird's-eye view of the 48 vertical-launch missile tubes, capable of launching various types of missiles, from anti-air fragmentation missiles that burst open releasing a swarm of micro-missiles to Exocet Mk.IV ship-killer missiles, Tomahawk VI-B high-yield shore bombardment missiles and even Bullwhip surface-to-orbit guided missiles with high-yield low-fallout nuclear warheads, to destroy hostile ships orbiting above.

aitp://lwmw.deptmilexports.gov.lunath/naval/designs/dreadnoughts/draughts/america-class/maincommandbridge.jpg (http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/2080/maincommandbridge7xe.jpg)
The main command bridge of the America-class Dreadnought. The starboard bridge is the main command center and tactical/strategic control center, the port bridge is the gunnery command and fire-control center and the central bridge is tasked with controlling and monitoring the ship, acting on orders from the main command center.

aitp://lwmw.deptmilexports.gov.lunath/naval/designs/dreadnoughts/draughts/america-class/fullview.jpg (http://img78.imageshack.us/img78/4836/fullview0mh.jpg)
An angled view of the full warship.

I hope you will find this design satisfactory.

Yours sincerely,

Commodore Raine

-ENDMSG

The links refer to "starboard" and "port" weapons, where the descriptions state "port" and "starboard" respectively, this is because I seem to have mixed the two up when rendering

Early thoughts: The secondary should be smaller; it only needs to take out aircraft/missiles, and therefore doesn't need to consist of 8" guns. 5" DP guns was what we had in mind. There should be a larger central hull, in order to fit more VLS cells. There needs to be a number of point-defence weapons, like the RIM-116 RAM or the Phalanx or Goalkeeper CIWS. We think that the depth charges should be replaced/supplemented with torpedoes. We like the thick armor and relatively low profile of the ship; although it's rather ugly, it looks like it could get the job done.

Anyone else wish to comment?

-MSGDATA
MSGSENDER: Commodore Lara Raine, Military Export Department, Chief of Naval Exports
MSGRECIPNT: Adm. Cochrane, Adm. Mullen
MSGSUBJCT: America-class Dreadnought: First Draughts
-BEGINMSG

Admirals,

Thank you kindly for your quick reply. The design team is working hard on improving the design to meet your specifications. Our first priority is customer satisfaction with our products. We will be with you shortly with the second set of draughts.

Yours sincerely,

Commodore Raine

-ENDMSG

Later thoughts: remove the depth charges entirely (if a sub gets that close, you're dead anyways), remove satellite guidance for the torpedoes (too likely to be jammed), add rear torpedoes (to extend the firing arc of our ships), replace the flak with CIWS mounts, remove the 8" guns for smaller DP guns, make bridges be below the waterline (one primary and one backup; harder to hit), and make it less wide.

I would suggst against having the primary bridge below the waterline, an On deck bridge has many advantages under most circumstances. and in a fight all essential personell should be in the CIC anyway...

for Hull, SWATH would be fun, but on a drednaught class ship its impractical, Trimaran is the way to go...

And now for me to plug my stuff for use on this ship!

Rolling Air-Frame Point Defense Missile
Range: 25,000 m.
Ammunition: fits all standard 5 in. air defense missiles
Sensors: Integrated phased array medium range radar, LIDAR/LADAR, all aspect thermal imaging
Price: 30 million per launch unit
Details:
The Rolling airframe missile is the new standard in point defense weapons, capable of longer ranges and higher levels of accuracy the rolling airframe missile is slowly supplanting CIWS as the last line of defense. The Mondoth Arms General Missile Launch System is capable of delivering unprecedented numbers of these highly agile weapons in rapid succession, each launch unit carries as many as 8 missiles at a time and is linked to an internal magazine for rapid automatic reloads. Like the CIWS units, the GMLS is capable of acquiring and prosecuting targets independently or in concert with the ships own sensor arrays.

Black Widow Metal Storm CIWS
Range: 3,000 m.
Ammunition: 2,500 round metal storm canisters of 25mm radar fused caseless.
Sensors: self contained mmw radar, LIDAR/LADAR, all aspect IR and Thermal imaging
Price: 2.3 million per unit
Details:
The Black Widow is a state of the art CIWS system, utilizing 2,500 round canisters of caseless 25mm ammunition, the black widow autonomously acquires, tracks and prosecute targets, it is equipped with its own sensors but is also networked with the ships own systems to provide higher resolution and longer warning periods. The 25mm rounds are automatically fused to detonate in front of incoming missiles or aircraft to shred them with deadly high velocity shrapnel. This system is capable of an incredible 1 million rounds per minute rate of fire and can unleash an almost solid block of hot lead to intercept anything from an incoming fighter to an 10in. artillery shell.

I've also got a pair of nifty under water defenses I'll post later that you can use...

25in. naval gun:
Crew: gunner, turret commander, 17 service personnel (may be shared among multiple turrets)
Gun type: 25in. self contained rifled ETC naval gun
Range: 50 nautical miles
Ammunition:
25in. 3,400 lbs. HE impact fused
25in. 3,400 lbs. Armor piercing
25in. 3,400 lbs. HE air-bursting
25in. 3,400 lbs. Fuel Air Explosive
25in. 3,400 lbs Concrete
25in. illuminating
25in. smoke
25in. guided HE impact fused
25in. guided HE delayed impact fused
Size: Super Dreadnaught
Price: 51.2 million per unit
Details:
The 25in. Naval gun is the new staple of modern naval firepower, Since the introduction of the giant 'Super Dreadnaught' ships, there has been a need for a similiarly massinve weapon, And Mondoth Arms, in assosciation with the Shipyards at Wuller and Farthing have made that gun. The Mondoth Arms 25 in. naval gun features a state of the art bezzle mounted autoloader with blow-out armor plates to prevent even a direct hit from taking the gun completely out of action., two 4,000 pound ordnance lifts and a comprehensive electronics set including a pair of independent thermal imaging sights with integral laser rangefinder/target designators and a powerful magnifying component that can be used in day mode as well as night, similar to the sights on modern battle tanks, this system allows the gunner to select and prosecute a target while the turret commander acquires and designates the next target, leading to an incredibly short engagement time. The turrets fully automated tracking and elevation also reflect modern advances in tank construction, utilizing lightning fast computers coupled with the ships own sensor system, the gun automatically corrects for target speed, windage and distance and is even capable of time on target style repeated firings, placing as many as six rounds on a single target within fractions of a second of each other. And the rounds themselves are no less revolutionary, firing the standard array of HE rounds, armor piercing and concrete filled KE rounds as well as smoke and illuminating rounds, the real genius is in the guided rounds, utilizing a ‘soft launch’ propellant to reduce stresses on electronics components and a thin walled discarding sabot to protect the control surfaces, these rounds carry slightly less bang for the buck but the ability to put the first round on any target down to the size of a single window through the magic of GPS guidance is worth it.


8in. naval gun
Crew: gunner, turret commander, 5 service personnel (may be shared among turrets)
Gun Type: self-contained rifled or smooth bore multi purpose gun
Range: 18 nautical miles
Ammunition:
8in. 1,000 lbs HE delayed impact fused
8in. 1,000 lbs HE impact fused
8in. 1,000 lbs Canister
8in. fragmenting airburst
8in. guided HE delayed impact fused
8in. guided HE impact fused
8in. APFSDS
8in. illuminating
8in. smoke
Size: frigate or larger
Price: 16.5 million per unit
Details:
The Mondoth Arms 8in. naval gun is a state of the art medium range solution to shore bombardment and ship to ship fighting, it incorporates all the major features of our larger guns in a smaller package.
In addition to the tricks of the larger guns this gun has a new feature, totally unique among naval weapons today, the ability to fit a smooth bore barrel and fire APFSDS anti armor rounds, the barrels stay true to the FMCVs by word of modularity, capable of being changed out in under an hour by a suitable support vessel, the smoothbore provides a new level of ability, including canister rounds that deploy a massive variety of submunitions, and of course, the APFSDS. The Armor Piercing Fin Stabilized Discarding sabot was added to the arsenal as an answer to new heavily armored ships capable of withstanding many modern munitions. Capable of punching clear through even the most heavily armored ship this round makes the perfect anti battleship round and is ample deterrence against many super dreadnaughts.

I've also got either a 6in. gun or a 4.2 in. gun if you want to go even smaller

first what I would ask is what the exact purpose of the ship is? Then, what weapon systems are most essential to fulfilling the mission of the vessel. Myself, when I think of dreadnoughts and battleships I don't think of them carrying torpedoes. For one, a torpedo would have to run underwater out to the enemy combatant - which if the dreadnought is acting as a fleet command ship, would be quite some distance (as your own torpedo would have to extend beyond the furthest picket screens of your own fleet.) Personally, I'd nix the idea of torpedoes launched from tubes, if you really are deadset on having torpedoes though, I would go for a vertically-launched and rocket-assisted sort that have an extended range from the first stage booster that clears them of your dreadnought's own defence envelope, including pickets. The same goes for depth charges. If you're relying on depth charges and torpedoes to fight off your enemy from your fleet capital ship... you've already lost.

That said, if you're using a 25" main battery, I think that an 8" battery would be an ideal fit for a dreadnought and I would recommend keeping them. Presumably, your dreadnought will be slugging it out with vessels of similar displacement and less, but with a dreadnought there are still numerous escorts such as destroyers and frigates (I'd doubt so much NS cruisers) that could be dealt effectively with an 8" shell. Additionally, from what I understand, you can carry more 8" shells than you can 25"... and as I said 8" will work against numerous escort ships, which may very well lay within range of your fleet once the two forces join battle (perhaps, not necessarily true.) That and when I look at guns for my capital ships I generally have three calibers, which is somewhat tricky given the tracking of each type of ammunition and such... but I prefer smaller guns in the area of 3" as they can provide limited air-defence as they can fire relatively rapidly as well as fending off small suicide boats that may attack your ship while at harbour or something. And in that case, if your ship is sitting just offshore of a major port, there will be numerous little boats running about and if one slips into your fleet, it'd be a mighty big waste to load and fire a 25" or even an 8" gun against what might just be a yacht or someother ship. In that case, 3" guns should do the trick. Lastly come the air defence guns, in my case I use a custom-designed system called the JGUM (Joint Gun and Missile) system, which features a 35mm gatling gun and pre-packaged short-range missiles all guided by a unit-mounted radar system in conjunction with the other units onboard or even the ship's main sensor system. Lastly, for reasons of tradition more than efficiency the Royal Navy operates its dreadnoughts and such with the LiWRAP gun (Light Weight RAPid) gun. Under armed at only 20mm, the gun can be operated remotely from combat stations within the ship's hull through video and radar sensors (these radar sensors, however, are tied to the ship's sensor network) or if need or want be, automatically by the ship's main tactical processing system. The idea is that these lightweight guns provide necessary firepower to tear apart zodiacs and rafts that would be employed by forces attempting to board the dreadnought as well as serving as an additional close-in-defence system.

For the design of the ship, the centre of operations in the ship should be Combat, or whatever term your nation's navy uses to designate the location where combat operations are carried out, the Royal Navy uses "Combat". Now, again for reasons of tradition, the UK maintains the "Open Bridge", which is set like bridges of yesteryear at the top of the front superstructure where one can find navigational and steering equipment (which is also kept in Combat for actual fighting.) However, it has been found in Royal Navy studies that the crew prefers the Open Bridge command when not in combat as Combat, despite modern open designs with lots of light, is still a cramped compartment deep within the bowels of the ship.

As for the beam of the ship... you don't want to go too wide, but a wider beam would also improve the stability of the ship as a gun platform. Then again, something too-infrequently RPed in NS is the fact that many trimarans and such ships would be difficult to fit through RL commercial canals such as the Suez and the Panama... and in the UK, there are several inlets to the "inland" sea that can be traveled by monohull warships, but not by larger trimarans simply because the shipping channel is too narrow. So in that sense it also depends on how realistic you want to RP your maritime infrastructure and such.

That's just my two cents so far.

Azazia - We're building at Lewes, a shipyard we carved out over three years on the Atlantic coast, so hull-related issues will not be a problem for the shipyard. Whether The Beltway's navy will be able to handle it is the problem of the navy, not of our company. The concept of the open and combat bridges seems like an interesting idea. As for torpedoes, we'll probably just make them optional; people can fill their VLS cells however they want. Would a 5" DP gun be ineffective against light escorts? We could use a 6" or 155mm gun.

Mondoth - We'd rather rely on our own 25" ETC guns, although we'll take advice as to their design, for personal reasons. We're thinking 6" secondaries, and we'll make the Black Widow CIWS optional; we're thinking of using the 30mm Goalkeeper CIWS and your RAM point defence missiles as our standard close-in AD.

sounds good...
I would include at least two traditional style torpedoes tubes, VLS deployed torpedoes are fine but havign a dedicated Torpedo launcher will come in hand if you go up against an enemy that focusses on submrine power, Submariens are one of the greatest threats to an SD, a single well placed torpedo can take out your engines, a salvo could crack your keel wide open, so havign the ability to engage these threats without needing to rely on escorts is essential.

the role of Azazia's LiWRAP guns IS an essential oe, but in modern times you can use your CIWS guns for it, most CIWSs are designed for it.

For a true Dreadnaught/Superdreadnaught class ship width should not be a concern, becasue in reality, it will have too deep of a draught to even consider many water ways already, there aren't many that are too narrow for a Trimaran that are also dep enogh for a monohull dreadnaught

6in. naval gun
Crew: gunner, 4 service personnel (may be shared among turrets)
Gun Type: self contained smooth bore defensive naval gun
Range: 13.5 nautical miles (70nm with ERGM)
Ammunition:
6in. anti-air
6in. HE delayed impact
6in. illuminating
6in. smoke
6in. APFSDS
6in. canister
Size: frigate or larger
Price: 13.4 million per unit
Details:
The Mondoth Arms 6in. defensive naval gun offers a light solution to fire support and light anti ship fighting, the high barrel elevation and the availability of 6in. anti air munitions make it a viable area denial anti air weapon. Includes all the major features of the larger naval guns as well as the ability to fire extended range guided munitions or ERGM's which use the same basic firing system as the normal GPS guided weapons, except that when the round sheds its sabot, a pair of gliding surfaces extend to offer extended range and increased accuracy with only a slight reduction of explosive power.

I need to write up my torpedo defenses.

Mondoth - Might torps be useful for close-in warfare in general? BBs in the early-to-mid-20th century used to carry torpedo tubes, on the off-shot of a short-range engagement. We'll probably put two Mk. 32 mounts on each auxiliary hull, along with (possibly) two on the main hull. Thanks for the 6" DP mounts.

True, but you rarely find that sort of close in fighting with the availability of modern missiles and such that can eliminate surface threats before they get to that range, and espescially with big guns to engage close in targets. Most battleship age vessels were designed to fight on pretty equal terms, and a torpedo up the rudder was a pretty good way to tip the balance. Super Dread's only have to really worry about other super's on the surface, your main torpedo target will be subs.

Welcome for the 6"ers

Mondoth - Technically, this is a dreadnought. We're nowhere near ready to design SDs; we'll put our toes in the water, so to speak, by starting with a DN. We'll keep the torps, but only for ASW.

Everybody - What are standard dimensions for a dreadnought?

Bump. Like a bumper car.

[OOC: TB, one possible definition of a DN, by Scandavian States on the NS Draftroom, is "any ship of the line between 150,000 and 500,000 tons with guns over 16". May not have a fixed-wing aircraft compliment." Of course, that just happens to be his classification scheme; whether or not you want to expand on that is entirely up to you. Another reference point you may want to consider is the specifications of Sarzonia's Independence-class pocket superdreadnaught, which has a length of 758 m, a beam of 175 m, a draft of 19.2 m, and 1.65 million tonnes displacement. Again, how you use that information is up to you. There really are no "standard" dimensions, since different people classify ships of similar sizes and armament in different ways; it's really up to you. Hope that helps!]

We propose that the America-class DN will be 2000-3000 feet long, 400-600 feet in beam, and 50-80 feet in draft, with displacement from 200,000 tons to 1 million tons. This ship will carry no aircraft; it will carry up to ten helicopters (five rescue, five ASW) and 9-12 UAVs (one per gun). It will have 9-12 25" ETC guns (which we finally got to work), an undetermined number of secondary (6" DP) guns, an undetermined number of mounts for close-in AD (RAM/Goalkeeper), an undetermined number of torpedo tube mounts for ASW torpedos, and at least 144 VLS cells. Speed will be between 20 and 30 knots, provided by nuclear fission plants. We are considering using the A4W Westinghouse nuclear reactor, which provides 140,000 shp.

Thoughts?

Thats very nearly a Super Dreadnaught there, a true Dreadnought is only about 800 to 900 feet. a thousand on the outside, pretty much anything that can safely carry anything bigger than a 24in. gun is a super dread

Finally got the torpedo defenses

Sea Wolf Super Cavitating Gun
Range: 300 m.
Ammunition: 40mm Super Cavitating slugs
Sensors: self contained, LIDAR/LADAR, Passive Sonar
Price: 3.2 million per unit
Details:
The Sea Wolf is the next step in below the water line defense. Capable of identifying and destroying enemy torpedoes and sea mines, this system is indispensable to any modern ships. The Sea Wolf weapon tracks in on enemy torpedoes by their distinctive SONAR signature and identifies mines using a special blue/green LIDAR sensor capable of penetrating water. Once identified the Sea Wolf automatically prosecutes with high velocity Super Cavitating slugs form an internal magazine until the target is destroyed. The Sea Wolf is capable of prosecuting and destroying as many as ten targets at once, with a rate of fire of about 600 rounds per minute.

Bass Drum under sea defense
Range: 250 m.
Sensors: contained, LIDAR/LADAR, Passive Sonar.
Price: 4.3 million per unit
Details:
The Bass Drum is the new thing in undersea defense. It is composed of multiple pistons in the outer hull, open to the water. When not in operation the pistons are flush with the hull to avoid causing unnecessary noise or drag. However in operation these might pistons pump several times a second, producing harmonic waves with in the water by carefully synchronizing the pistons. When multiple pistons are operating simultaneously the weapons devastating effect is obvious. It creates an almost solid wall of water capable of destroying any torpedo running into. Because multiple pistons are used, varying the rates and strengths of each piston allow the ‘shield of water’ to be steered, providing complete protection.

Mondoth - Well, then I suppose this is a small SD. We'll still class it as a DN, and just treat it as a massive DN. Our navy might end up not using the term super-dreadnought; to the navy's [OOC: my] ears, it sounds ugly and contrived. By the way, we'll take your systems; suggestions on numbers for the 'undetermined' sections of the blueprints, to which we'll add your systems?

Everyone - Anyone care to mock up pictures for this? It will have a traditional trimaran hull; as neat as Neo-Athenia's pics looked, that design won't work for the proposed DN. Any further suggestions for the design?

hhmm....

A) Start measuring in metric.

B) 9-12 25 inchers? I would go with 20x20 inch guns, because a few large guns won't be able to rack up a high enough RoF, which is actually rather important, because guns are fairly inaccurate, also, given the rather small size of this dreadnought, you won't be able to carry as many 25 inch shells as you would like. Another advantage of smaller guns is that you can make their barrels longer, and thus get better range, muzzle velocity and accuracy from them.

Dimensions in metric: About 610-915 meters long, 120-180 meters in beam, and 15-25 meters in draft. Sorry I didn't include them at first.

So, what does everyone think: twelve 25" ETC guns or twenty 20" ETC guns?

Depends on your naval doctrine; if you strike from far, bigger guns [there's a limit] means longer range; but more guns means more selectivity and more shells, of course. So, it's up to you.

Well, 25 inch barrels on a small SD such as yours wouldn't exactly allow the 25 inch shell to get to its full velocity. A longer barrel with a 20 inch gun will allow you to develop full velocity for the 20 inch round and thus more accuracy and better range.

Unless you sacrificed space for a larger turret [much of the gun will be inside the turret]; but that, again, will decrease amount of firepower - which I don't think can be overset by strength of the shell.

Personally I'd use four seawolves, one on each corner (Front starpoard hull, front port hull, etc.) and maybe two of the Bass Drums, one at the mid point of each outer hull. but thats just a suggestion, you can survive with less, but if you come up against some heavy duty under water threats then you'll be happier the more defenses you have

It seems that 20 20"/72 ETC guns will be our main armament for America. Comments on number of VLS cells, 6"/60 DP guns, CIWS/RAM mounts, and other needed weapons would be appreciated; please note that we are including 10-20 UAVs, 3 HH-60 rescue helos, and 3 SH-60G ASW helos for the America.

bump

[OOC: TB, if you so wish, Consolidated Arms would be more than happy to offer you a special deal on our new UH-60 Black Hawk replacement, the UH-75 "Knighthawk." I've finished the main variant, and I'm working on the other variants of it now, including the SH-75 "Wavehawk." You can find it in the Air Force section of the Draftroom, but for convenience's sake, I'll post the write-up of the Wavehawk here (I've not done the specs yet, but they'll probably be reasonably similar to the Knighthawk's). The price is usually about $20 million per helo, but we would either cut you a nice deal on procuring them from us, or we would work out production rights of some kind, if you were to have the SH-75 replace the SH-60s as the standard birds on the America-class. Let me know what you think!]

[SH-75 "Wavehawk"]

The navalized variant of the UH-75, the SH-75's primary roles include combat search and rescue (CSAR), anti-submarine warfare (ASW), and anti-surface warfare (ASUW).

The Wavehawk features co-axial rotors instead of the main-rotor-and-Fenestron-fan system of the UH-75. The co-axial system is another alternative to the conventional tail rotor system; because the two rotors rotate in opposite direction on the same vertical axis, the opposing torque normally provided by the tail rotor is instead produced by the counteracting forces of the two main rotors, eliminating the need for a tail rotor. An additional benefit of the co-axial configuration is a high resistance to side winds, making it a perfect choice for the navalized version of the UH-75, where side winds are more common and can adversely affect helicopter operations.

The SH-75 features a slight increase of armor -- thirty-five millimeters of amorphous steel, up from thirty millimeters on the UH-75 -- and different weaponry than the UH-75. The Wavehawk retains all three CAM-20s [Consolidated Arms' newly-designed 15.5mm double-barreled Gatling gun], and can additionally mount two stub wings, each capable of holding external fuel tanks or Hellfire, Penguin, or Mk-46 torpedo equivalents.

Please note that we need production and export rights; we'll probably end up making the SH-75 an optional extra. With your permission, we would like to make the SH-75 an option for all our naval ships; if this is unacceptable, that is understandable. Now, about the number of CIWS/RAM mounts, 6"/60 DP guns, and VLS cells...
-Adm. Thad Cochrane, CEO
Adm. David Jeremiah, CFO

[OOC: Oops, forgot to mention that that above post was all OOC. Here's our preliminary deal: we'll sell you production rights for an as-yet-undetermined sum (it'll be reasonable, don't worry), and give you permission to export them with your naval designs. However, Baltimore Shipyards will have to abide by Consolidated Arms' list of blacklisted nations (that is, we wouldn't want you selling the SH-75 to any nation we've blacklisted), and we'd ask you to split all profits from the sale of the SH-75 with us 50-50. Note that this would be strictly for the SH-75, not the Baltimore product it's coming on. How does that sound to you?

Regarding the secondary armaments: six-inchers look good; keep the number of torp tubes relatively small (I'd say 12 or 16 maximum, though others may disagree); and the VLS tubes look about right, though you may want to add, say, 36 more tubes dedicated solely to SAMs.]

Sorry about the IC/OOC mess-up. That agreement sounds fine; how's $40 million for production rights?

bump

bump.

Hello? Bump...

Halbergardia, how about our offer ($40 million upfront and 50% royalties for export rights for the SH-75)?

Specs, version 3.0:
DN-1 America
Abstract: The first Dreadnought built by Baltimore Shipyards, this trimaran ship is a collaborative design with many other nations. Although somewhat slow, it packs a powerful punch, carrying 20 20"/72 caliber guns, 288 VLS cells, 20 UAVs, and 6 helicopters. We provide 20 RQ-1E UCAVs, courtesy of MoCoAutSys, three SH-60G ASW helicopters, and three HH-60F rescue helicopters.

Hull: Normal, trimaran-style, hull
Length: 2,500 feet (762 meters)
Beam: 500 feet (152.4 meters)
Draft: 65 feet (19.812 meters)
Displacement: 600,000 tons
Speed: 25 knots
Propulsion: 3 A4W reactors; six shafts, 420,000 shp
Aviation: 20 UAV, 3 ASW helicopters, 3 rescue helicopters
Armament: 20 20"/72 caliber ETC guns (one twin mount front and one rear of starboard and port hulls; two triple mounts front and two rear on center hull); 288 VLS cells; 80 6"/60 caliber twin DP gun mounts; 60 16-cell GMLS for Rolling Air-Frame Point Defence Missiles; 60 30mm Goalkeeper CIWS; four 21" (533mm) twin torpedo tube mounts; four Mk. 32 324mm (12.75") triple torpedo tube mounts; four Sea Wolf Super Cavitating Guns for underwater defence (front and rear of starboard and port hulls), two Bass Drum systems for underwater defence
Armor: (RHA steel)
Belt - 20-24 inches
Bulkheads - 22-28 inches
Barbettes - 24-28 inches
Turrets - 26-28 inches
Decks - 8-10 inches
Electronics: SPS-40 Air Search Radar; SPS-48 3D Air Search Radar; SPS-67 Surface Search Radar; 3 AN/SPY-1D Radars; 3 SQQ-26 Sonars; 8 Mk14 Weapon Direction Systems; 1 Mk74 Missile Fire Control System; 8 Mk86 Gun Fire Control Systems; 6 Mk114 ASW Fire Control Systems; 4 SPG-51 Radars; SLQ-25 Nixie; one AN/SLY-2 EW Suite; 60 AN/SWY-2 Fire Control Systems for GMLS
Price: $90 billion (add $30 million for SH-75 ASW helicopters in place of SH-60Gs, add $750,000 for EH-101 Merlin in place of SH-60Gs, add $30 million for HH-75 rescue helicopters in place of HH-60Fs, subtract $10 million for RQ-1D Predator UAV (the unarmed model) in place of Predator UCAVs), subtract $1 billion to replace all twenty 20"/72 ETC guns with twelve 25"/60 ETC guns (mounted in pairs in the center hull and in single mounts on the port and starboard hulls), add $5 billion for titanium armor)

Thoughts?

Final specs, pending last-minute changes:
DN-1 America
Abstract: The first Dreadnought built by Baltimore Shipyards, this trimaran ship is a collaborative design with many other nations. Although somewhat slow, it packs a powerful punch, carrying 20 20"/72 caliber guns, 900 VLS cells, 20 UAVs, and 6 helicopters. We provide 20 RQ-1E UCAVs, courtesy of MoCoAutSys, three SH-60G ASW helicopters, and three HH-60F rescue helicopters. Further, it is protected by up to 28 inches of steel-titanium composite armor.

Hull: Normal, trimaran-style, hull
Length: 2,500 feet (762 meters)
Beam: 500 feet (152.4 meters)
Draft: 65 feet (19.812 meters)
Displacement: 600,000 tons
Speed: 25 knots
Propulsion: 3 A4W reactors; six shafts, 420,000 shp
Aviation: 20 UAV, 3 ASW helicopters, 3 rescue helicopters
Armament: 20 20"/72 caliber ETC guns (two twin and two triple mounts front and rear of center hull); 900 VLS cells; 80 6"/60 caliber twin DP gun mounts; 60 16-cell GMLS for Rolling Air-Frame Point Defence Missiles; 60 30mm Goalkeeper CIWS; four 21" (533mm) twin torpedo tube mounts; four Mk. 32 324mm (12.75") triple torpedo tube mounts; four Sea Wolf Super Cavitating Guns for underwater defence (front and rear of starboard and port hulls), two Bass Drum systems for underwater defence
Armor: (Steel-Titanium composite)
Belt - 20-24 inches (equivalent to 22-26 inches of RHA steel)
Bulkheads - 22-28 inches (equivalent to 24-30 inches of RHA steel)
Main Gun Turrets - 26-28 inches (equivalent to 28-30 inches of RHA steel)
Secondary Gun Turrets - 8-9 inches (equivalent to 10-11 inches of RHA steel)
Decks - 8-10 inches
Electronics: SPS-40 Air Search Radar; SPS-48 3D Air Search Radar; SPS-67 Surface Search Radar; 3 AN/SPY-1D Radars; 3 SQQ-26 Sonars; 8 Mk14 Weapon Direction Systems; 1 Mk74 Missile Fire Control System; 8 Mk86 Gun Fire Control Systems; 6 Mk114 ASW Fire Control Systems; 4 SPG-51 Radars; SLQ-25 Nixie; one AN/SLY-2 EW Suite; 60 AN/SWY-2 Fire Control Systems for GMLS
Price: $95 billion (add $30 million for SH-75 ASW helicopters in place of SH-60Gs, add $750,000 for EH-101 Merlin in place of SH-60Gs, add $30 million for HH-75 rescue helicopters in place of HH-60Fs, subtract $10 million for RQ-1D Predator UAV (the unarmed model) in place of Predator UCAVs), subtract $1 billion to replace all twenty 20"/72 ETC guns with twelve 25"/60 ETC guns (mounted in three-gun turrets on the center hull), add $5 billion for titanium-depleted uranium alloy)

Pending any final requests for changes to the design, we will move on to legal affairs (posting which nations this may not be sold to, due to bans) Sunday.

I like it.

Okay, the design is finalized, so it's time for legal affairs. Please inform us of any nations to which you wish to forbid the sale of this ship.

none at this time, but we would like to maintain the ability to add nations to a list of nations that we would deny this vessel to.

None here. By the way, if anyone is interested, Baltimore Shipyards is selling stock at $32.00 US per share; 13.3 million shares remain available to purchase here (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=464764). Thank you.

Change in policy -
Currently Banned Nations:
The Fascist Republic of Kravania (under the provisions of the Gutierrez-Van Hollen Embargo Act)

I really think you have too many 20" turrets for the displacement and length of this ship, especially with the huge amount of verticle launch blocks and sixty (!) close-in weapon system platforms. The displacement of this should probably break a million tonnes at this rate, while it would probably have to be designated a superdreadnought as opposed to a dreadnought. Remember that electro-thermal chemical propulsion systems are much bulkier than a conventional system, and much more expensive, although I'm not arguing you shouldn't employ them - the more velocity you can get off that shell, the better.

How much longer do we need the ship to be? We'd rather keep the existing armament fit; this ship is rather defensive-minded (note its relatively low speed).

By the way, Baltimore Shipyards will not use the classification of Super-Dreadnought; we prefer to call all ships larger than a battleship a Dreadnought, although we might use "Juggernaut."

I use Juggernaut for my overly huge artillery platform which makes use of eight rather large 800mm guns; it's actually not mine - it's for the nation of Gerfaanlich, a puppet. I normally give the nomenclature of Super Dreadnought to anything >1,000,000 tonnes, and dreadnought to anything 100,000<x<1,000,000. While battleship is anything below that, which serves the role. That said, you can probably get away with the length, but I really think that displacement is low. I know Super Dreadnoughts that have less armament than this, but displace more. You'd displace more, as well, if the ship is shorter proportionally to the weight of the armament it expends. Do you know the height of this ship below the waterline? Meaning the length from the waterline to the bottom of the keel.

I don't know the height of this ship below the waterline; is it related to the draft? I don't quite know much about how to determine the dimensions of ships; I'm a bit better at determining how to go about arming my ships.

Personally, I'm opposed to the name Super-Dreadnought on the basis that anything that has to call itself "Super" is not necessarily super. Thus, this remains the DN-1 America-class Dreadnought.

Well, actually I wouldn't take my word for it. I was going to figure out displacement by using the height to the waterline, so it would effectively be height [to the water line] x beam x length. Why not put the design up, with the original displacement, on the draftroom?

I did; the issue of displacement never came up.

Here's the link. (http://s13.invisionfree.com/The_NS_Draftroom/index.php?showtopic=913&st=15)

So, it's probably not a problem then. I just thought that 20 20" guns was a lot.

So the original displacement should stand?

Yes, since I seem the only one worried about it. I really don't know if I'm wrong or right, but until someone with more experience comes along, I would say stick with the original displacement.

Current banned nations list: Kravania

Nations that have submitted responses to our query: The Beltway, Mondoth, MassPwnage, Neo-Athenia
Nations yet to reply: Halberdgardia, Azazia

Thank you, and please reply as soon as possible.

Sincerely,
Rear Admiral James McPherson (retired), esq., Corporate Attorney for Baltimore Shipyards

--Excerpt from The Baltimore Sun--
Legal issues continue to stymie the planned release of the America-class dreadnought. According to Rear Admiral James McPherson (ret.), corporate attorney for Baltimore Shipyards, "We've finished the design; all that remains is finalizing contracts." The specific issue appears to be that of limiting sales of the dreadnought; neither Halberdgardia nor Carson & Wolff have contacted the Shipyards with regards to the nations to which they feel the ship should not be permitted to be sold.
--End of Excerpt--

Dreadnought released!

DN-1 America
Abstract: The first Dreadnought built by Baltimore Shipyards, this trimaran ship is a collaborative design, developed with aid from Consolidated Arms, Carson & Wolff Shipyards, Wuller and Farthing, MP Ordnance Corporation, and Neo-Athenia. Although somewhat slow, it packs a powerful punch, carrying 20 20"/72 caliber guns, 900 VLS cells, 20 UAVs, and 6 helicopters. We provide 20 RQ-1E UCAVs, courtesy of MoCoAutSys, three SH-60G ASW helicopters, and three HH-60F rescue helicopters. Further, it is protected by up to 28 inches of steel-titanium composite armor.

Hull: Normal, trimaran-style, hull
Length: 2,500 feet (762 meters)
Beam: 500 feet (152.4 meters)
Draft: 65 feet (19.812 meters)
Displacement: 600,000 tons
Speed: 25 knots
Propulsion: 3 A4W reactors; six shafts, 420,000 shp
Aviation: 20 UAV, 3 ASW helicopters, 3 rescue helicopters
Armament: 20 20"/72 caliber ETC guns (two twin and two triple mounts front and rear of center hull); 900 VLS cells; 80 6"/60 caliber twin DP gun mounts; 60 16-cell GMLS for Rolling Air-Frame Point Defence Missiles; 60 30mm Goalkeeper CIWS; four 21" (533mm) twin torpedo tube mounts; four Mk. 32 324mm (12.75") triple torpedo tube mounts; four Sea Wolf Super Cavitating Guns for underwater defence (front and rear of starboard and port hulls), two Bass Drum systems for underwater defence
Armor: (Steel-Titanium composite)
Belt - 20-24 inches (equivalent to 22-26 inches of RHA steel)
Bulkheads - 22-28 inches (equivalent to 24-30 inches of RHA steel)
Main Gun Turrets - 26-28 inches (equivalent to 28-30 inches of RHA steel)
Secondary Gun Turrets - 8-9 inches (equivalent to 10-11 inches of RHA steel)
Decks - 8-10 inches
Electronics: SPS-40 Air Search Radar; SPS-48 3D Air Search Radar; SPS-67 Surface Search Radar; 3 AN/SPY-1D Radars; 3 SQQ-26 Sonars; 8 Mk14 Weapon Direction Systems; 1 Mk74 Missile Fire Control System; 8 Mk86 Gun Fire Control Systems; 6 Mk114 ASW Fire Control Systems; 4 SPG-51 Radars; SLQ-25 Nixie; one AN/SLY-2 EW Suite; 60 AN/SWY-2 Fire Control Systems for GMLS
Price: $95 billion:
+ $30 million for SH-75 ASW helicopters in place of SH-60Gs
+ $750,000 for EH-101 Merlin in place of SH-60Gs,
+ $30 million for HH-75 rescue helicopters in place of HH-60Fs
- $10 million for RQ-1D Predator UAV (the unarmed model) in place of Predator UCAVs)
- $1 billion to replace all twenty 20"/72 ETC guns with twelve 25"/60 ETC guns (mounted in three-gun turrets on the center hull),
+ $5 billion for titanium-depleted uranium alloy