NationStates Jolt Archive

So it seems that we've come to the conclusion that colossal ships aren't always the best buy?

I have a kind of mixture in mind. My navy has one colossal starship, the Independent, and nothing else. I like having a big ship because it has longer range and is better when it comes to logistics or beating off hordes of very light ships. But in combat, it will usually separate into 40 battlecruisers for flexibility, manueverability, and stealth.

I haven't come to that conclusion at all. I still maintain that the best buy are squadrons of capital ships, with screening units.

I'm FT and have a quite a few large vessels. Why? Because in my tech scheme reactor power goes up very rapidly with size so I can get massive amounts of power and fuel into a massive ship and still keep up good acceleration. And as such I can mount hundreds of thousands of guns and powerful enough shields so I can take on thousands of lesser vessels and win. My large ships simply produce too much power for the smaller ships to handle.

For example it would take 6000 ISDs to overwhelm one of my Nightingale-class Star Dreadnaughts, and that's assuming it only hits 10% of the time when fighting back.

Of course in the real world that doesn't work.

Oh and Athiesism transforming ships suck. Don't bother with them.

EDIT: And there's no such thing as stealth in space unless you use technobabble. Your ship will be radiating at all times from waste heat which would be easily detecable, and your drives will be visible from anywhere in the solar system if they're worth they're salt.

Save your breath arguing with Mini Miehm. As this conversation we had yesterday on MSN shows, the only reason he even uses wedges is to god-wank... even if you run away, he'll just use the magical Protoss recall to make your ships get rammed anyways, and if you shoot, somehow they deflect everything (despite the fact that even in the books, wedges can be penetrated by sufficiently powerful energy weapons).


Berrik: BTW, I havn't thought of a good counter to wedge ramming that doesn't require black hole cannons, so I think if we end up fighting my ships will probably just run away into jumpspace :P
Mini Miehm: Heh.
Mini Miehm: You CAN'T.
Mini Miehm: There's no ESCAPE...
Berrik: Sure there is. Detect your ships, open jump point, run through.
Mini Miehm: FTLi.
Mini Miehm: Always.
Berrik: One stated feature of my version of the jump point thing is that FTLi does not affect it. However as a result it uses a great deal of power and is somewhat slower than more conventional FTL drives.
Berrik: (thus my ships can take days or weeks to travel, and most certainly cannot cross the entire galaxy easy)
Berrik: However, I CAN easily move many ships at once, provided enough of my jump-capable ships are there to create a big enough jump point.
Mini Miehm: I see.
Mini Miehm: How about if I simply Recall a ship in front of the Gate?
Mini Miehm: Then you end up ramming a Gravity Wedge.
Berrik: Recalls use a lot of energy too
Mini Miehm: Nah.
Berrik: also, generating a second space time vortex in proximity to a jump point would make Bad Things happen
Mini Miehm: They're gonna be alot cheaper than what YOU use at least..
Berrik: I don't want to RP with people who concern themselves with having the uberest of uber tech :P (thus why my ships don't fly around at 99.999% of lightspeed and have superdimensional shields)
Berrik: I accept that gravity wedges worked, but if you did nothing but harrass me with your recall + wedges I'd just stop RPing out of frustration
Mini Miehm: I have gravity. Gravity pwns all.
Mini Miehm: Plus, ?Recall is fun.


As you can see, arguing with him about wedges is a complete waste of time, as he thinks they're just an invincible uber pwn-all shield.

Re the heat thing, you could get rid of excess heat with cooling lasers... thus you'd only be emitting excess heat in one particular direction.

Save your breath arguing with Mini Miehm. As this conversation we had yesterday on MSN shows, the only reason he even uses wedges is to god-wank... even if you run away, he'll just use the magical Protoss recall to make your ships get rammed anyways, and if you shoot, somehow they deflect everything (despite the fact that even in the books, wedges can be penetrated by sufficiently powerful energy weapons).



As you can see, arguing with him about wedges is a complete waste of time, as he thinks they're just an invincible uber pwn-all shield.

Re the heat thing, you could get rid of excess heat with cooling lasers... thus you'd only be emitting excess heat in one particular direction.

It is stated quite clearly in various Honorverse books that even the wedge of an LAC was tough enough to stop ANY weapon.

They are invincible. You CANNOT penetrate the Impeller Wedge of a starship. You may penetrate the sidewalls, and since I don't use the Bow walls, you can shoot up the kilt and down the throat with ease at any range. Assuming you can maneuver ships into that position of advantage. If I REALLY wanted to God-wank I'd combine Apollo, the Mules, and Moriarty, and start throwing tens of millions of missiles in a salvo.

Should we raise the issue of your Aniwank shields and armor then?

I also believe you left out the rest of that conversation...

wedges are inpenitrable. sidewalls are not. it's stated several times. of course, one can avoid the wedges [combat in whatever they call their FTL enviroment is.. interesting because the wedges become sails, wich don't protect much at all.]

Fecking Future tech.

First, lets be quite clear, Gravity is supposed in its current incarnation not proven---I said NOT proven.

Now addressing it from its current incarnation, it is the WEAKEST of the Four natural supposed forces---yes the weakest.

If some shmuck Scifi writter ignores all the laws of physics and supposes that wave form is invincible---for goodness sakes, that word is just stupid.....

But there is NOTHING which has been supposed as the be-all end-all which has made good on that claim.

NOw I am certain our little childrens book writter makes his special wittle toys the bestest toys in whole widlle world, but it isnt hard science so stop talking like it is--it isnt even based off of Hard science.

UFT, never heard it mentioned, resoved the quntum issues with gravity--could you post his equations? His theory in laymans terms?

Anything other then "It is the bestest, I am super, you suck" HUH? Didnt think so.

How does he manipulate the Gravity to reach strengths that would be found in black holes? If the gravity shield(impellar wedge, pancake stack...whatever) is so concentrated nothing can move through it--like a black hole--because short of that matter passes through gravity fields...well ALWAYS.

If it is indeed that powerful how does he munipulate it so it doesnt just act exactly like a black hole?

......and dont say it just does---or name some magical device based off some other fake azz quasi-science that you will preach to be some reality.




Most RPers here try to stick with at least some reality----some real theory, not something that according to all current physics is completely impossible.

It is WANK--anything Invincible is WANK--of the highest order. If i say my entire race is particle size and you cant kill them until you find them but they still effect the macro world as if unchanged it still not be nearly the WANK as anything claiming to be invincible is---you RP to win, boring.

Now I had reasonble post for the actual question posed of this thread but now I am just irratated by taint of this discussion.

wedges are inpenitrable. sidewalls are not. it's stated several times. of course, one can avoid the wedges [combat in whatever they call their FTL enviroment is.. interesting because the wedges become sails, wich don't protect much at all.]

In one of the books it states that Warshawskis are still impenetrable, just less useful for combat. I wanna say it's Short Victorious War, or the one that immediately preceds it, though I may be wrong.

Should we raise the issue of your Aniwank shields and armor then?

I also believe you left out the rest of that conversation...


The PSA and Geschmeidig Panzer I use make my ships and strike craft tougher, not invunerable. As for the positron deflector shields, they either get penetrated or they don't, and have rather significant downsides, and unlike wedges, actually have varying power levels to what they can deflect as well as a weakness to continually applied force (such as a drill or something pressing against them). Not to mention the whole pointing in only one direction at a time like a knight's shield thing.

Fecking Future tech.

First, lets be quite clear, Gravity is supposed in its current incarnation not proven---I said NOT proven.

Now addressing it from its current incarnation, it is the WEAKEST of the Four natural supposed forces---yes the weakest.

If some shmuck Scifi writter ignores all the laws of physics and supposes that wave form is invincible---for goodness sakes, that word is just stupid.....

But there is NOTHING which has been supposed as the be-all end-all which has made good on that claim.

NOw I am certain our little childrens book writter makes his special wittle toys the bestest toys in whole widlle world, but it isnt hard science so stop talking like it is--it isnt even based off of Hard science.

UFT, never heard it mentioned, resoved the quntum issues with gravity--could you post his equations? His theory in laymans terms?

Anything other then "It is the bestest, I am super, you suck" HUH? Didnt think so.

How does he manipulate the Gravity to reach strengths that would be found in black holes? If the gravity shield(impellar wedge, pancake stack...whatever) is so concentrated nothing can move through it--like a black hole--because short of that matter passes through gravity fields...well ALWAYS.

If it is indeed that powerful how does he munipulate it so it doesnt just act exactly like a black hole?

......and dont say it just does---or name some magical device based off some other fake azz quasi-science that you will preach to be some reality.




Most RPers here try to stick with at least some reality----some real theory, not something that according to all current physics is completely impossible.

It is WANK--anything Invincible is WANK--of the highest order. If i say my entire race is particle size and you cant kill them until you find them but they still effect the macro world as if unchanged it still not be nearly the WANK as anything claiming to be invincible is---you RP to win, boring.

Now I had reasonble post for the actual question posed of this thread but now I am just irratated by taint of this discussion.


Ok. Address this question then. Explain to me how these things work, using science:

A Hyperspace Motivator.

A Federation Warp Drive.

A 40k Warp Cathedral.

You can't?? Oh, right, because NO ONE can. FTL is, so far as we know, impossible(the theoretical Warp Drive is still just that, theoretical).

You have NO IDEA what you are talking about right now, so do us all a favor and remove your ignorance from this thread before you lower the collective IQ of everyone involved by your simple presence.

@Axis Nova:

And for you as well, can YOU explain how your tech works? Without using references to Anime?

In one of the books it states that Warshawskis are still impenetrable, just less useful for combat. I wanna say it's Short Victorious War, or the one that immediately preceds it, though I may be wrong.

i didn't say they weren't. they are just not in such a conveniantly protective place, as part of the ship [at least] is exposed from any angle in that configeration.

Actually, I can explain perfectly how a Warp Cathedral works, but you aren't going to like the answer, what with the magic and all...

i didn't say they weren't. they are just not in such a conveniantly protective place, as part of the ship [at least] is exposed from any angle in that configeration.

Ah. Misunderstanding on my part then.

And for you as well, can YOU explain how your tech works? Without using references to Anime?


Can you explain how all of your tech works, without reference to a sci-fi novel series or a Blizzard game? Dismissing something due to it being from a source you dislike goes both ways, you know.

My objections to your wedges are how you portray them and intend to use them, not how they actually work.

Fecking Future tech.

It is WANK--anything Invincible is WANK--of the highest order. If i say my entire race is particle size and you cant kill them until you find them but they still effect the macro world as if unchanged it still not be nearly the WANK as anything claiming to be invincible is---you RP to win, boring.

Now I had reasonble post for the actual question posed of this thread but now I am just irratated by taint of this discussion.


well, it's not that bad [the wedges at least] when you take into account that they can only Ever protect two sides of the ship. anything else, and BAD THINGS [trade marked by someone at asome point, apparantly] start happening. even worse things start happening if you try and use sidewalls over the ends of your ships while in motion.

on the other hand, this is FT RP you're talking about. it basicly IS sci-fi. arguments about realizem are irrelivant when parts of reality pretty much go out the window when and as needed. it's the nature of the beast

Can you explain how all of your tech works, without reference to a sci-fi novel series or a Blizzard game? Dismissing something due to it being from a source you dislike goes both ways, you know.

My objections to your wedges are how you portray them and intend to use them, not how they actually work.

I can explain SEVERAL of the things I use without referencing SF, or Blizzard. Bomb-Pumped Lasers, Lasers in general, certain types of my armor. YOU on the other hand have to refer to Anime in order to explain your armors and shielding. I can at lesat explain some of my armors without referring to egregious fiction.

Ok. Address this question then. Explain to me how these things work, using science:

A Hyperspace Motivator.

A Federation Warp Drive.

A 40k Warp Cathedral.

You can't?? Oh, right, because NO ONE can. FTL is, so far as we know, impossible(the theoretical Warp Drive is still just that, theoretical).

You have NO IDEA what you are talking about right now, so do us all a favor and remove your ignorance from this thread before you lower the collective IQ of everyone involved by your simple presence.

@Axis Nova:

And for you as well, can YOU explain how your tech works? Without using references to Anime?

OK I understand you are wanker--but everyone of those thing s are based in real scientific theory no matter how remote---you wittle childrens book directly defies physical law.

Star Trek warp is based off the work of Alcubierre, and his suppositions on using large gravity wells to move an object through space by "warping" space time around the object--the flaw? In order to actually do it, the object would be smashed by the forces--as it would require mass as great as stars on the front and back of the vessel.

Star Wars FTL---
Is very simple, the suppostion is that the Hyperspace motivator uses a built up charge most likely of Zero Point Energy to go beyond our four dimensions to a dimension where these two things are true A. FTL does not defy pysical laws, and B. you are not forced to move across the massive curvature of our space time....again real theories(unlike your tripe in your little kiddies book) The flaw, mathmetically it appear according to string theory(unproven) that these additional dimentions are ....squished, and not truly Spatial, like our three of four.


40k what is that? Some cartoon or something--meh.

The point is the one you made your self---those are based in some real mathmatical theory where at the minimum there is a potential according to at least some members of our current scientific community--

Your little "its invincible whah whah" is not only not based on any real science what so ever--it is directly in oppossition to it. You slack jawwed feeb, dont presume to insult my intelligence because I question the validity of childs book writter, and the gen pool of some twit who presume to place on the same table with potential reality.


So, instead of dodging my questions toby, answer them?

Show one signal theory that even remotely supports the slightest possibility for that crap to work in our universe governed by our physics.

You cant, becasue it is all ready known to be completely impossible--now or ever.

And on the matter of invincibility, entertaining this garbage for a moment--the smae tech used to make the broad "Wedge" could be used to pin point the same amount of energy as a weapon--hence piercing the invincible by making the energy use more efficient---butthen that thinking conforms to some natural laws so more then likely doesnt apply to candyland.

I can explain SEVERAL of the things I use without referencing SF, or Blizzard. Bomb-Pumped Lasers, Lasers in general, certain types of my armor. YOU on the other hand have to refer to Anime in order to explain your armors and shielding. I can at lesat explain some of my armors without referring to egregious fiction.


Guess what most FT is?


Fiction.

well, it's not that bad [the wedges at least] when you take into account that they can only Ever protect two sides of the ship. anything else, and BAD THINGS [trade marked by someone at asome point, apparantly] start happening. even worse things start happening if you try and use sidewalls over the ends of your ships while in motion.

on the other hand, this is FT RP you're talking about. it basicly IS sci-fi. arguments about realizem are irrelivant when parts of reality pretty much go out the window when and as needed. it's the nature of the beast

No, its not that bad if someone say "Yeah, its FT magic, not hard science--it works really well" but when someone tries to act like it is based in any type of reality--that threatens to get every other other slack jawwed moron who reads this thread thinking this shit is really possible.

Second, INVINCIBLE--this is an RP site, once something becaomes INVINVCIBLE you claim that NO MATTER WHAT, your shyt cant be harmed--Wank, doesnt give any respect to intelligence or the efforts of other players(speaking only of FT players) who go to great lengths to stick as close to our physics as posible.

So it deserves no respect, yes it is indeed INVINCIBLE, all total fiction is.

No, its not that bad if someone say "Yeah, its FT magic, not hard science--it works really well" but when someone tries to act like it is based in any type of reality--that threatens to get every other other slack jawwed moron who reads this thread thinking this shit is really possible.

Second, INVINCIBLE--this is an RP site, once something becaomes INVINVCIBLE you claim that NO MATTER WHAT, your shyt cant be harmed--Wank, doesnt give any respect to intelligence or the efforts of other players(speaking only of FT players) who go to great lengths to stick as close to our physics as posible.

So it deserves no respect, yes it is indeed INVINCIBLE, all total fiction is.

Do you even know anything about the Impeller wedge or its Geometry and form? Didn't think so.

Read this, idiot, then see just how "invincible" you think it is.

http://infodump.thefifthimperium.com/Harrington/hh_wedge_geometry.htm

OK I understand you are wanker--but everyone of those thing s are based in real scientific theory no matter how remote---you wittle childrens book directly defies physical law.

Star Trek warp is based off the work of Alcubierre, and his suppositions on using large gravity wells to move an object through space by "warping" space time around the object--the flaw? In order to actually do it, the object would be smashed by the forces--as it would require mass as great as stars on the front and back of the vessel.

Star Wars FTL---
Is very simple, the suppostion is that the Hyperspace motivator uses a built up charge most likely of Zero Point Energy to go beyond our four dimensions to a dimension where these two things are true A. FTL does not defy pysical laws, and B. you are not forced to move across the massive curvature of our space time....again real theories(unlike your tripe in your little kiddies book) The flaw, mathmetically it appear according to string theory(unproven) that these additional dimentions are ....squished, and not truly Spatial, like our three of four.


40k what is that? Some cartoon or something--meh.

The point is the one you made your self---those are based in some real mathmatical theory where at the minimum there is a potential according to at least some members of our current scientific community--

Your little "its invincible whah whah" is not only not based on any real science what so ever--it is directly in oppossition to it. You slack jawwed feeb, dont presume to insult my intelligence because I question the validity of childs book writter, and the gen pool of some twit who presume to place on the same table with potential reality.


So, instead of dodging my questions toby, answer them?

Show one signal theory that even remotely supports the slightest possibility for that crap to work in our universe governed by our physics.

You cant, becasue it is all ready known to be completely impossible--now or ever.

And on the matter of invincibility, entertaining this garbage for a moment--the smae tech used to make the broad "Wedge" could be used to pin point the same amount of energy as a weapon--hence piercing the invincible by making the energy use more efficient---butthen that thinking conforms to some natural laws so more then likely doesnt apply to candyland.


1: You are a moron. David Weber is NOT a childrens author, too much cursing and violence for one thing.

2: You didn't actually explain how the Motivator worked, you just said what it did.

3: You have just lost any semblence of credibility, you obviously know nothing about FT. Warhammer 40k is the third of the Big Three FT Tech bases. You have cemented your moron status.

4: First tell me, which theory of Gravity do you subscribe to? This works off of Newtonian "all pervasive instantaneous field" Gravity.

Weber wanks to gravity, so you just work around it. You want to beat a wedge? Simple, just smack it with enough momentum to tear the nodes clear off the ship. Which is a lot of momentum, roughly about 1.3x10^16 kg*m/s, which is a 20 ton missile at 99.99% c or so or a 1.3x10^24 Joule energy blast. Get it higher than that and the nodes will come a tearing off the ship, wedge goes down, ship goes boom.

Easy peasy.

Weber wanks to gravity, so you just work around it. You want to beat a wedge? Simple, just smack it with enough momentum to tear the nodes clear off the ship. Which is a lot of momentum, roughly about 1.3x10^16 kg*m/s, which is a 20 ton missile at 99.99% c or so or a 1.3x10^24 Joule energy blast. Get it higher than that and the nodes will come a tearing off the ship, wedge goes down, ship goes boom.

Easy peasy.


You realise just how hard most of that would be to pull off, right? The energy blast would be extremely massive, likely so much so that it would destroy the ship firing it. I mean, yeah, it'd WORK, but at what price?

You realise just how hard most of that would be to pull off, right? The energy blast would be extremely massive, likely so much so that it would destroy the ship firing it. I mean, yeah, it'd WORK, but at what price?

Not too hard at all with SW+ level tech. Anything else than you're better off just shooting through the sidewall.

Not too hard at all with SW+ level tech. Anything else than you're better off just shooting through the sidewall.

SW is actually the entire reason I use the Wedge. Their reliance on energy weapons makes the Wedge much more effective, I mean sure, an Axial or a DS will do the job, but I THINK that's all SW has that can do the job.

SW is actually the entire reason I use the Wedge. Their reliance on energy weapons makes the Wedge much more effective, I mean sure, an Axial or a DS will do the job, but I THINK that's all SW has that can do the job.

Nope, the 800 meter long Munificent-class Star Frigate can dump 66 petatons into it's heavy guns, although that does take 30 minutes. And that's 213 times more energy than the wedge can handle. The big heavy guns of an ISD could easily put a petaton into the wedge, which is 4 times more energy than the threshold. That's upper limit though, you'd probably need a Star Cruiser or more to actually put out a petaton in its heavy guns normally.

But that's rather inefficient. An SW ship just has to use its vastly better acceleration to maneuver into a good position and shoot through the sidewall or a kilt/throat shot.

Nope, the 800 meter long Munificent-class Star Frigate can dump 66 petatons into it's heavy guns, although that does take 30 minutes. And that's 213 times more energy than the wedge can handle. The big heavy guns of an ISD could easily put a petaton into the wedge, which is 4 times more energy than the threshold. That's upper limit though, you'd probably need a Star Cruiser or more to actually put out a petaton in its heavy guns normally.

But that's rather inefficient. An SW ship just has to use its vastly better acceleration to maneuver into a good position and shoot through the sidewall or a kilt/throat shot.


Yeah, but when you put all that power into guns, something suffers usually speed or shields, since you're dumping power into weapons SOMETHING has to suffer.

Also, maneuverability is debatable, acceleration is quite possible. Remember, maneuverability is decided by the laws of physics, you can't just go and instantly change directions, you have to dump your acceleration, and change your vector as well. The better acceleration will help there, but...

Yeah, but when you put all that power into guns, something suffers usually speed or shields, since you're dumping power into weapons SOMETHING has to suffer.

The Munificent requires 30 minutes of dumping it's entire reactor output into the gun. So it is a weakness. Star Cruisers and above have enough reactor power to pump that out without suffering.

Also, maneuverability is debatable, acceleration is quite possible. Remember, maneuverability is decided by the laws of physics, you can't just go and instantly change directions, you have to dump your acceleration, and change your vector as well. The better acceleration will help there, but...


In ESB and ROTJ we see capital ships turn with incredible speed. They're quite maneuverable, they can fly circles around Honorverse ships.

1: You are a moron. David Weber is NOT a childrens author, too much cursing and violence for one thing.

2: You didn't actually explain how the Motivator worked, you just said what it did.

3: You have just lost any semblence of credibility, you obviously know nothing about FT. Warhammer 40k is the third of the Big Three FT Tech bases. You have cemented your moron status.

4: First tell me, which theory of Gravity do you subscribe to? This works off of Newtonian "all pervasive instantaneous field" Gravity.

I have to interject and say that the only one who as dropped to 'jackass' status being you, since you're argument was basically, "you're a moron." Anybody loosing credibility is you, and next time, I suggest you offer a different perspective instead of just "stop typing idiot!".

The Munificent requires 30 minutes of dumping it's entire reactor output into the gun. So it is a weakness. Star Cruisers and above have enough reactor power to pump that out without suffering.




In ESB and ROTJ we see capital ships turn with incredible speed. They're quite maneuverable, they can fly circles around Honorverse ships.

But is that realistic? Physics still apply to Honorverse ships when it comes to maneuvers, so it has to be the same for SW tech. Remember, if I have to obey the laws of motion, so do you.

I have to interject and say that the only one who as dropped to 'jackass' status being you, since you're argument was basically, "you're a moron." Anybody loosing credibility is you, and next time, I suggest you offer a different perspective instead of just "stop typing idiot!".

Good for you. He was a moron. He tried to say I was using BS, but he couldn't explain how the rest of FT BS actually works. If he can't PROVE that Honorverse can't work, he can't talk, since I can't prove the other techs can't work, and I don't say they can't.

But is that realistic? Physics still apply to Honorverse ships when it comes to maneuvers, so it has to be the same for SW tech. Remember, if I have to obey the laws of motion, so do you.

More powerful engines = more acceleration and quicker turning rates. SW ships just have more engine power.

See here:http://www.mrpoesmorgue.com/usvsd/maneuv/falconturn6.avi

For Rebel cap ship maneuverability.

More powerful engines = more acceleration and quicker turning rates. SW ships just have more engine power.

See here:http://www.mrpoesmorgue.com/usvsd/maneuv/falconturn6.avi

For Rebel cap ship maneuverability.

Ok. I'll give on that one.

People; it's freeform RP. Sure FT is wanky and improbable; but that's the bloody point! No one sits down to watch Star Trek and says "That teleporter would never work; the amount of energy needed to break him down to molecules; would destroy the ship"; no one guffaws half way through a Star Wars movie and says "Why, that focused energy sword is highly unlikely to exist in real life!"

FT runs on different rules; and once you apply hard science to it; the illusion would crumble; fall apart.

Would I be able to galivant around the galaxy with immense vessels of war, genetically engineered super soldiers and extra-dimensional daemons? No. But I do it anyway :P

No. No momentum transfer from impacts to a Honorverse wedge. None whatsoever, or missiles would just have to ram. Momentum is magicked away.

Yes, I find this a suspension of disbelief problem, but I want anyone who's forgotten it to recall that Weber made up his technobabble in order to make the Honorverse work. It's your responsibility to make it work in an NS context if you want to rip it off.

The proper attitude to take is hardly combining it with upgunned gizmos from RTS games, or to bring in numbers sifted from the fever dreams of Wossface Saxton.

Oh, and the Trek warp drive is hardly based on Alcubierre's work. It's just that the description fits.

er, i could outmanouver you, if i played E.E."Doc" Smith's tech (famous author, space opera on a grand scale...) cos he uses netralisation of inertia and cosmic energy for his godly weapons. I actually use none of said, btw.

anyway...

Using FT and magicing away anything that would stop your tech working is fair. magicing your ship invincible or your weapons unstoppable is what will end up with people ignoring you. simple solution, use your ludicrous FT tech that would be horribly unbalanced in a fight with person A if the laws of physics applied, but use them so that your tech is even with that of person A, unless person A says that his tech is backwards, and wants to RP either swarm tactics or losing horribly. end of story...

No. No momentum transfer from impacts to a Honorverse wedge. None whatsoever, or missiles would just have to ram. Momentum is magicked away.

Not so, if a wedge didn't transfer momentum to the ship it wouldn't propel it. Sidewall's also transfer momentum to the ship, it even says to in The Short Victorius War.

The proper attitude to take is hardly combining it with upgunned gizmos from RTS games, or to bring in numbers sifted from the fever dreams of Wossface Saxton.

I'm tired of people badmouthing Saxton. He arrived at his numbers from working with the filmic material and backstage material from Lucasfilm itself. He didn't pull them out of his ass. Deal with it.

Uhm...does it really even matter that much?

Not so, if a wedge didn't transfer momentum to the ship it wouldn't propel it. Sidewall's also transfer momentum to the ship, it even says to in The Short Victorius War.

I heard it was more like a surfer on a perpetual wave.

I heard it was more like a surfer on a perpetual wave.

And surfing works because the wave transfers momentum to the surfer. If it didn't the surfer would just sink and drown.

[random aside]10+ pages of random arguements on the reality of FT when the thread is meant to be about whether SDs are clever or not is quite foolish really...[/random aside...]

If he can't PROVE that Honorverse can't work, he can't talk

That'd be the Burden of Proof Fallacy (http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/burden-of-proof.html) there.

People; it's freeform RP. Sure FT is wanky and improbable; but that's the bloody point! No one sits down to watch Star Trek and says "That teleporter would never work; the amount of energy needed to break him down to molecules; would destroy the ship"

Well no, because if transporting used huge amounts of energy it'd vapourise whoever it was trying to transport. Since that doesn't happen, transporting things obviously doesn't use huge amounts of energy.

I'm tired of people badmouthing Saxton. He arrived at his numbers from working with the filmic material and backstage material from Lucasfilm itself. He didn't pull them out of his ass. Deal with it.

That doesn't by itself mean the numbers aren't silly and OTT. And since we'd IIRC never seen a heavy turbolaser actually hit anything when he came out with those figures, what did he work with?

That doesn't by itself mean the numbers aren't silly and OTT. And since we'd IIRC never seen a heavy turbolaser actually hit anything when he came out with those figures, what did he work with?

Sacling up from light turbolasers, scaling down from the Death Star reactor, analysis of the engine's to get their power, BDZ operations.

Read his site for better explanations.

Sacling up from light turbolasers, scaling down from the Death Star reactorThe funny part is that using this methods IRL, the british u-boat bunker busters in ww2 had three times the yield of the hiroshima bomb XD

Now, disregarding the idiocy of trying to analyse widely inconsistant science fiction meant to be entertaining - Rather than scientifically correct - because a few warsies feel that a bunch of adolescent trekkies could have bigger penile compensation options, by way of using (At best) questionable methodology, and quietly going 'Respect the canon! Especially few-and-far in between pieces of it that are generally inconsistant with the vast majority of the available material * (The one that includes engagement ranges roughly equivalent to ww2 fighters for TIEs. Where the hell are their 'kilotons' going?), is it possible for people not to argue how $Source beats $Different_Source, instead going to try and make things work in a vaguely balanced fashion in NS?

* Courtesy of Renate

The funny part is that using this methods IRL, the british u-boat bunker busters in ww2 had three times the yield of the hiroshima bomb XD

Har, har, har.:rolleyes: It works in Sw because ISDs have the same kind of reactor as the Death Star only smaller, and light turbolasers use the same mechanism of larger turbolasers.

A more accurate IRL analogy is comparing a Davy Crocket nuke to the Hiroshima bomb. Not a nuke to a chemical warhead.

Now, disregarding the idiocy of trying to analyse widely inconsistant science fiction meant to be entertaining

We all have our hobbies.

(The one that includes engagement ranges roughly equivalent to ww2 fighters for TIEs. Where the hell are their 'kilotons' going?),

Shields, even basic TIEs need to have some form of shielding to keep themselves from being destroyed from colliding with space debris.

Right and remember Der Angsts, Tech wanking never beats RP, no matter how many kilotons you put in to it. However in counterpoint ships playing dragonball character and jumping around like crazy, with vastly superior systems and no RP also suck.

er, i could outmanouver you, if i played E.E."Doc" Smith's tech (famous author, space opera on a grand scale...) cos he uses netralisation of inertia and cosmic energy for his godly weapons. I actually use none of said, btw.

I actually know a couple nations in my region alone that do use that tech. Galactic Patrol, for example, is one of them, when he can get on-line at least.