NationStates Jolt Archive

rather than clutter up the flow of the story which is building nicely I've started this off so we can discuss ideas, the levels of technology and the politics of that part of the world.

Despite hunting the internet high and low i haven't been able to find a map of the pacific area for this era of history. Since i'm playing this as alternate history with NS nations involved as well here are somethings that could well give you RP ideas.

Kirisubo would have enemies in the region; Imperial Cathay (China) and Chosen (Korea).

Known friendly nations would be Portugal and Spain due to their trading links. England and The Netherlands are also involved in trading with Kirisubo at the moment.

Topal, that means if you fancy a bit of piracy outside the empires waters you can attack any nation listed (except Kirisubo or Kirisuban ships off course). If Cathayans or Chosen ships are attacked Kirisubo won't mind too much :).
Portugal also has a base on the port of Macao which is off the coast of China, not far from where Hong Kong would eventually be founded. So if you fancy another viking style raid feel free.

There is also existing Cathayan pirates out in international waters and the Wako, the Kirisuban pirates that prey on coastal shipping in home waters.

The Kurile islands i'll place 50 sea miles NNE from Yokose point which is a days sailing from there. North of the Kuriles is the territory that will eventually become part of the Russian Tsars Empire and currently up for grabs.

ok cool. Would you RP the opponents in pirate/viking raids or combat of any kind?

no probs Topal.

I could RP most nations in the area since i understand the history. However the portugese and spanish have access to canon and black powder weapons.

since these are early 17th century cannon they'll be small caliber weapons and the muskets and pistols will be the matchlock variety. There may however be some flintlock pistols around as well.

I'll need to research what was going on north of Japan first but I know enough of the rest of it to start to the ball rolling.

I will probaly start such raids when I drive off the romans.

any online maps of the kurile chain aren't much help to us. They're far too small to make sense off.

the 56 islands (that includes the ones the russians own) seem to vary in size from the 3 ones the empire know about to smaller ones no better than volcanic jungles.

the 3 islands that have been discovered are in the hot waters. the other islands further north are in the cold waters near the russian far east.

I have located a large map of japan which will mark the boundaries of the empire. Yokose point is the most northernly point on the main island of Hokkaido where Wakkanai is.

http://www.ease.com/~randyj/japanmap.htm

OOC:Driving off the Ostian's(Romans) will not be easy...i had 2 ships return to Ostia to get reinforcements and supplys. It will not be a massive force or nothing like that..perhalps a Legion, but im going to need somwhere to dig in, somwhere to launch attacks from.

the Ostians and the Frozopians prospective war would not be looked on kindly by the Bakafu government.

The Ostians are still at Anjiro in Hokkaido for now but i'm sure a more permanant home could be found for the fleet.

I got Frozopians coming to. This should be interesting.

this will be fun :)

Especially since the Kirisubans want to retain their neutrality. After their own war they don't want to have to fight another one quite so soon.

thats why politics is fun :)

with Jolt being down last night I was able to do more research.

Further north is Siberia, the island of Sakalin and the rest of the Kurile chain.

in the early 17th century the Russians hadn't yet got this far and theres a mix of various indigious tribes, the Tartars, some Mongol tribes and not much else.

The terrain would probally be only suitable for raising food animals like goats or sheep which these nomadic tribes are doing already.

there are rich fishing grounds up there as well.

sorry for the OOC post on the IC, I had an idea on how I could get involved, tell me if you think it's alright, so a small band (say 5 Toops and their servants) land in Kirisubo on a fake diplomatic mission which is actually a rouse to steal what they can from noblemens houses, important places, etc, what do you think?

What is the purpose of stealing petty things as the items that would be in some ones home..? i don't understand could you explain better? i am just interested...

well if they pick purely on the houses of Nobles and Aristocrats (assuming there are either) then they could expect to pick up some hefty loot, if not then weapons sell just aswell on the black market as loot, maybe a kidnapping could be involved also.

Not bad..not bad...,

Topal, when excepted by the Senete there will be 2 Ostian Legions comming to the East...it will not be an attack by 20 thousand strong! they will be spread out through the east after awhile...an army like that is overwhelming...the numbers are insurance for a period of time...just to clarify that :)

Toops, lets say you land and carry out the plan. the samurai will soon catch you and serve up your heads. they're already edgy about foreign visitors.

Why not be merchants and you can try and establish relations first before trying to fleece a Portugese or Spanish merchant at a treaty port?

that would be fun

well my guys are evil at heart but I guess merchant could be an easier way to both flog off black market gear and improve relations, when can I start?

I agree, it sounds good...i wouldn't wander near the Ostian camp if i were you though..although we can do nothing..we can turn you over to the Empire...

Toops, would your goblins have a homeland in the region?

if they don't why not start in the far north, on the coast of Siberia or Sakalin island. that way you'll also have a good chance of running into the Frozopians as well in the future.

all you would have to do is sail due south until you hit Hokkaido island where the Ostians are currently based.

i've information for Topal.

the names of the Kirisuban women are as follows:

Akane
Azumi
Cho
Emi
Hana
Haruka
Kaede
Keiko
Natsumi
Sakura

they all range from 16-24 years off age and look pretty much the same with long black hair, dark eyes and small with a light build. some are prettier than others although.

they are experienced farmers and if they ever get building paddy fields they'll be the main ones who look after them unless the Frozopians want to help out.

I'm thinking that given a week or so you'll see tham pairing off with some of the unmarried men if thats agreeable with you.

Regarding the rest of the island further investigation will show that there has never been settlement or development on the southern island.

yeah that seems like a good place, should I start now?

you could start with a lone merchant ship which was caught in a typhoon and blown out to sea. If you base your race on Sakalin island that would make a lot of sense.

Eventually they'll make landfall in Hokkido in a bad way. Just expect a hot reception if you cause any trouble.

theres no magic and the maximum tech level is late medieval.

if you can give me a physical description, what clothes they wear, wargear they use and any languages they speak that would be great and then you can start.

k, there are two types, first are the Pure Toop who are lanky and thin, they have pasty green skin and wear whatever scraps of animal fur they can find, some of them may be covered in poxes which are purely harmless and non-contagious, next are the Grobble who are smaller in size due to their lack of feeding, they make up the servants who do things which no Toop would touch with a very long Toop stick, they might be traded off, the national language is Toopan Cyrillic but they will understand Russian aswell.

It looks like there's going to be a language barrier straight away then but i supose that a talented translater could pick it up eventually.

i would assume that if your wargear is going to be primitive weapons and wooden shields that will fit in nicely.

Only the Portugese, Spanish, English and Dutch have access to matchlock firearms. The Kirisubans have seen them but choose not to use them.

feel free to post being shipwrecked a few miles away from Anjiro and waking up on the beach with some fishermen and local samurai looking at you.

Im sure Ostian's would..some what enjoy seeing somthing of your race's sort..it never would have been seen before, so they will be the first Ostians ever to see it.. :)

Topal i need some information on your people such as, Weapons...beliefs...descriptions...same goes for me if you need information on the Ostian's i will let you know upon request.

Hello, All!

I'm planning to make accidental contact with Kirisubo, seeing as how many of us are in the same two RP's. Specificlly, I'm probably going to accidently get in the way of [NS::]Reallydrunk on his way to the Kurlie islands.

It's been suggested that I make contact with Kirisubo in the northern province of Hokkaido using a trading fleet or something of the sort.

Raveans are white, generally tall with black hair, and speak a dialect closely related to Modern-Day Serbian. Ravea itself is a mountianous region far to the east full of wide plains and tall peaks, as well as several giant forests.

Here's some stats on the Ravean Military.

Ravean Military Forces
Army
Ravean Heavy Calvary-Skilled Ravean horsemen armed with heavy lances and large bows.
Ravean Jeagers-Lightly armored, Very well trained, and versitile soldiers armed with long, light lances and curved sabers.
Ravean Jun'ta-Armored Infantry armed with hand-and-a-half swords and large shields. Slow moving, but very strong.
Yojimbo-Veteran mercinaries from other nations. Very skilled but difficult to control. These soldiers use a wide variety of weapons.
Crossbow infantry-Well-trained Crossbowmen who can also be used as a mobile but unarmored infantry; armed with crossbows, short swords, and spears.
Siege Engines:Trebuchet, Bastilla, Rams, Seige Towers, and Ongers.

Ravean Heavy Calvary-19,000
Ravean Jeagers-51,000
Ravean Jun'ta-79,000
Yojimbo-31,000
Crossbow infantry-14,000
Siege Engines:Several Hundred

Total Land Forces:154,000 troops

Navy
Ravean Frigates-Well made and incredibly quick, these ships are well armed with a variety of missile weapons.
Ravean Ramships-Self explanitory. Ramships are loaded with skeleton crews and explosives and driven into groups of enemy ships for massive damage.
Ravean Skiffs-Small and quick warships equipped with a small crew and a heavy bastilla.
Ravean Fireships-Spouting Greek Fire from a special cannon and housing many archers, these ships provide deadly covering fire for the rest of the navy.
Raven Galleons-Massive and incredibly well-made, well-armored, and well-armed, but very, very slow. These ships are huge floating fortresses that can withstand many attacks before sinking.
Ravean Boarders:Well armored and fast, but without much weaponey. These ships are loaded with soldiers with the intent to board and take enemy ships. Can also be used as an effective landing craft.

Ravean Frigates:160
Ravean Ramships:40
Ravean Skiffs:200
Ravean Fireships:120
Raven Galleons:40
Ravean Boarders:100

Total Combined Navy:640 Ships

Look forward to pairing of the men.
BTW Really drunk We both have equal time to bring men to the island, so expect fiercer resistance when you land (with me bringing in more reinforcements.)
Soon I will have my first naval landing after Williams crew. Expect a few 1000 troops with horses etc.

Topal i received the information i needed, now..when my troops arrive they will be branched off of course. The troops that will be traveling to the Kurlie islands are:

100- clerks, secretaries, maintenance workhorses, smiths, and sometimes cooks. Mercatores, Latin for "merchants", bought, sold, and traded booty with the soldiers.

12,000-Legionaires will arrive in the east.

1,000- Legionaires will attack the Kurlie Islands

42-Standard Bearers(Roman Army Mascotts)

600-Heavy Cavelry

200-Heavy Cavelry that will be branched off to the Kurlies

Legionaires are expected to cover 25 miles per day as a Roman set standard for marching. My formations are based off the standard Roman box formations, my Vanguard will form in my center as it was in those days..Vanguard being my best of the best. This is just general information on Roman Tactics as you probably already know. My General will come to lead this war but Maximus will be placed "Legati" or lieutenant general.

The Roman Camp was easily built in about six hours. The first step in building the city is contructing the walls. The camp would be surrounded in fossa (ditch) and an agger (wall). This ditch and wall system made it difficult to attack, and often would slow down the enemy. The fort is shaped like a square aswell.

All the soldiers were quartered inside cantebernium, which were tents that could hold eight men at a time. The general's tent, called the Praetorium, was located in the center of the camp,

hi Ravea,

where in the modern map would your lands be located?

further east would proablly leave you somewhere on the north american east coast. knowing this would give me an idea of how everyone got to the pacific.

since its medival past tech the most advanced weaponry would be the matchlock musket or small ship mounted cannon.
Maybe your Yojimbo could have access to fire arms?

remember the kuriles are outside the boundaries of the kirisuban empire so Ravean and Ostian forces will only based in Hokkaido, the nearest province.

Hi again, I know that my single ship that came to your lands is pretty much out of the picture by now, but the large Western Fleet for exploration will be nearing your lands soon. I'm thinking of possibly getting involved in the Ostia-Frozopia War on one side or the other.

Hi again, I know that my single ship that came to your lands is pretty much out of the picture by now, but the large Western Fleet for exploration will be nearing your lands soon. I'm thinking of possibly getting involved in the Ostia-Frozopia War on one side or the other.

You will have a chance to meet the Ostian's upon arrival, we have a camp set up on the beaches of Kirisubo as it stands now. Our main fleet is 15 miles off the cost and is moving in, they will move farther north once Maximus gets to speak with the empires goverment. It is really up to you which side you pick but i am open to new allies.

hi Ravea,

where in the modern map would your lands be located?

further east would proablly leave you somewhere on the north american east coast. knowing this would give me an idea of how everyone got to the pacific.

since its medival past tech the most advanced weaponry would be the matchlock musket or small ship mounted cannon.
Maybe your Yojimbo could have access to fire arms?

remember the kuriles are outside the boundaries of the kirisuban empire so Ravean and Ostian forces will only based in Hokkaido, the nearest province.

Very possible. The weapons of the Yojimbo are so various that there are bound to be a couple of ranks of primative muskets here and there.

I think I'm going to land near the Ostian with a small trade fleet(Five, mabey six ships guarded by a frigate are two, with about a hundred soldiers at max) and quickly establish ties with both the Ostians and Kirisubo. I'll see how things go with the Frozopians; I might join either side depending on what is offered or what seems more profitable.

If things don't look too good in the war instead of risking getting drove from If things don't look too good in the war instead of risking getting drove from the East i have plans simply to retreat and organize colonys and trade routes using my remaining armed forces to guard such establishments. I am looking for Allies as i already have an agreement with Kirisubo.


I don't need any more armys making things more difficult. So the best way i can establish colonys without the fear of being destroyed is defeat the Frozipans and hopfully gain some allies on my campaign. If my campaign goes according to plan..all my allies will have access to my trade routes i establish..they will be guarded by what ever i happen to have left after the war and if things go well..more soldiers will come over a period of time.

If this war is won any of my allies will have direct trading privilages with Ostia,

Hell I aint gonna give up that colony. Frozopians have the desperation factor. But allies would be useful.

True, you need it but it would be useful to my Empire if i had it. I know your men will fight twice as hard sence they need the land...that is why i don't need another nation fighting me.. haha

Well, I'm a largely naval-based power, so I won't be a whole lot of use in a land confrontation.

On the one hand, I could use a strong land-based power like Ostia, but on the other hand Frozopia also seems naval-based so he might be a good ally too...

Well, for now, I'll just wait and see how the war goes.

Hi again, I know that my single ship that came to your lands is pretty much out of the picture by now, but the large Western Fleet for exploration will be nearing your lands soon. I'm thinking of possibly getting involved in the Ostia-Frozopia War on one side or the other.

I don't think you're out of the picture. lets says once relations are estabished with the local samurai chief then rumours will reach you off tensions further north. These will be conformed when you reach Hakodate, the most northernly trading ports to commence trade.

I know it's a bit late, but any chance I could get involved?

sure

Callisdrun, this will run for a long time yet :)

if you can post up details of your nation such as the apparance of your people, languages spoken, some information on the culture and an indication how they got to Kirisubo and how long it took them we'll be able to sort something out. an idea of where you would be on a modern map is also helpful.

theres already a mixed bag of cultures (romans, vikings, feudal japan, late med. portugese, spanish and greenskins) but magic needs to be left out.

I'm just curious, but as a nation orginating from China or Cathay as you put in the first post in this thread. Wouldn't your forces be made up of soldiers from the Han period and not of Samurai? Since Japan is Japan and China is China. You're aware that from the middle 1550s to the late 1800s China and Japan refused to directly trade with each other. That and Japan are fiercely independant of china, and had in the past tried to take over Korea and then through there China.

So...your whole thing with using Samurai and stuff as your main force seems rather...misleading? Or did your nation originate from fuedal Japan and then proceed to take over China?

Your story is a little confusing. Perhaps you could make it clear.

Kirisubo is based on Japans feudal period so there will be Samurai and Asishgaru.

Theres few samurai compared to the ranks of peasant spearmen and most of the archers and cavalry are samurai as well. I've set the rise of the Kirisuban empire at the end of the civil war period so there would still be a lot of peasant troops around.

I'm not using blackpowder weapons either although they would have been used in Japan during the civil war period.

Just like in the history books there Portugal and Spain (since they can't trade directly with China) in the picture and the English and Dutch are beginning to make their presence felt.

Theres still no William Adams (Muira Anjin) yet and the Korean campaign has already taken place.

So its similar to Japan but there will be some flexibility since theres nation state countries involved.

The great peace may never happen or take a different form in Kirisubo but i'll see where the RP leads us.

I don't think you're out of the picture. lets says once relations are estabished with the local samurai chief then rumours will reach you off tensions further north. These will be conformed when you reach Hakodate, the most northernly trading ports to commence trade.
Okay. Once my eastern fleet is done with Terror Incognita they'll be heading there.

Two squadrons of Caladonnian warships are now off the Kurile Islands.

Two squadrons of Caladonnian warships are now off the Kurile Islands.

I'll leave the Frozopians the honour of welcoming you then.

The Kuriles might need its own thread at this rate.

i've done some sums and am basing Kirisubo's population on a ballpark figure of 10 million people.

The navy is made up of Lorca (large kirisuban two masted ships with modern sail), war junks (same size of ships, a single mast and large sails) and coastal galleys (small ships with a single large sail and 15 sets of oars in total).

Lorca's and War Junks would need a crew of at least 30-50 people each and galleys could get away with 30 rowers and 5 crew to handle the rest of the ship.

I'm thinking that the Imperial fleet would have about 20 Lorca's, 40 War junks and about 100 galleys scattered around the Empires navy bases. Coastal galleys are also found at most ports since they are also used to guide ships into a safe harbour.

the army would be transported to battle and i reckon that anything from 15,000 to 30,000 troops could be readied depending on the warning given.

they're normally in castles or garrison towns at strategic parts of the Empire so they could be deployed quickly in the event of invasion.

i've done some sums and am basing Kirisubo's population on a ballpark figure of 10 million people.

How did you come to that figure?

i have 13,500 able soldiers ready to go, mostly veterans but roughly 2000 replacments will be joining the lines. I have to figure out how many of what unit i have. The force i have put togeather is made up of Aux Corps, and Infantry...Most of my Infantry i would imagine can ride a horse too but i will leave that to my Cavelry...If worst came to worst i could manage maybe 300 Cavelry replacements out of my infantry..ones that meet my standards anyways..

Toops, divide your modern population by 100 and that gives you your past tech population.

even with a battle ready defence force which Kirisubo has (each village maintains its own unit small of peasant spearmen and archers) you still need to arm and feed them and keep them supplied.

thats why i'm thinking abut 15K to 30K army size, the vast majority who will be peasant spearmen.

Those are all the men i have for now...later more will come upon Regulus's request...but 13,000 soldiers is not bad at all...

290,000 O_o

k, that's an average military of 2,900

29,000 if I draft up, but then that'll make me kinda broke on Food stuffs, right, when I come along I'll be comitting 2,900 troops, easier to hide/feed/manuever.

My Legions will not be easy to command because of their size, chances are i will break them down. I think we should have a force land in NZ, i have afew tactical tricks up my sleeve that will be dished out in battle...efective..i have been doing a bit of research on tactics and such.

Reallydrunk']My Legions will not be easy to command because of their size, chances are i will break them down. I think we should have a force land in NZ, i have afew tactical tricks up my sleeve that will be dished out in battle...efective..i have been doing a bit of research on tactics and such.

Well I think the best tactic would be to land on the far Western Coast of Australia, as Spoot I managed to land on said coast with little argument from the naval forces, though my explorers did get themselves killed, then you've got the nomadic Moari as a shield between them and you, after that you can build up an army which could be hidden behind the nomads even drafted some of the nomads into the army, then when the time comes you can just waltz over to the shocked Austians

Agreed, your troops would be perfect for slipping through enemy lines(Toops)and causing a mess...as for the natives..im not sure on how to deal with them, i will recruit some if the oppertunity is given and they will be offered Ostian citizenship if they swear to serve 25 years in the army...im sure Regulus would agree to 10 years of service to live in the Ostian Colonys..not a bad deal if we can communicate with them.

My population I decided to base on Britain, whose population was 4 million in 1600's and 60 million now. So mine is 4/60 Multiplied by 550= 36 million. But since this is greater than every1 else I will make that 20 million. If you want to argue the /100 rule, well I reckon my nation due to harsh conditions has to have a higher base population to reach 550 million by MT, due to the slow growth rate. Its also a large country.

I dont do drafting, unless fighting a desperate defensive war so my army is 400,000 including navy of which I could have fighting in austia fully equipped roughly 60,000? Sound ok? As for the natives, my only use for them would be trackers and scouts, they would have little fighting value.

Of the 60,000 20,000 would be Longbowmen, 30,000 would be infantry, 10,000 Cavalry. All would be commanded by various lords acting as officers, but an overall General would be chosen (probably William).

If we land in the west, wont we have to cross desert or a slow treck along the coast? Meaning we need even more supplies for our armies? And whose to say these tribes will be friendly? Our supply line would be at risk, big time, and any harsh conditions (e.g. desert) would destroy us.

I say we land as close to the Austians as possible, and strike straight for his capital.

Sounds good, my Legions can fight in a city, Where ever the target is Regulus will send as much support as possible. I see where you are comming from with the supply lines and such..the outback is indeed a rough spot. So it will be an all out offencive? will we seperate to the Right,Centre and Left flanks? or march as 1 from 1 direction? also if the Natives cause a problem im sure Regulus would make it no longer an issue as he is known to do.

Lol by the way note I replaced lower base population with higher base population. Mistype.

I say several forces moving within close distance of each other. March divided and fight concentrated? Anyone know that saying? We unite for battles but march divided to prevent confusion and to give us increased flexibility when fighting a force.

Yes! i can see what you are saying... i will have cavelry spread out behind my formations which will not move untill the time is right..it will go, infantry,cavelry, and behind them archers then my reserves...my troops i wouldn't expect to break formation untill their lines are held up in battle...

I could offer help there, although Im sure Kiriusban have more horses than I do.

*shit..i took that part out by accident....it said we could launch a cavelry attack from the side causing the enemy to fight front and protect it's flanks...hopefully the confusion gets the better of them and we can carve right through their ranks...i will have enough cavelry visible to make it look like they are all there...in reality i will have my best along with who ever else's moving to the flank position quickly on horseback. It's risky but can work..also we can give them 1 hell of a artillary barrage and archers too..

I also have afew spare horses..they are rather hard to bring over..im hoping Aust will have lots :)

Kiriusban what you think of strategy?

Agreed, your troops would be perfect for slipping through enemy lines(Toops)and causing a mess

Well I was thinking more along the lines of small scale raids, popping into small front line Towns and Villages, raiding pillaging and causing a mess retreating and then repeating the process, it's a good tactic allowing for my troops to stay happy (based on the constant raiding which is enjoyed) fed (stealing food from Austian settlements) and wealthy (selling off wares when returning home).

Yes you could do that from raiding from the West.

yes, i like it...this is comming togeather good, i am more confident then i was when i was going to war with the Frozopans...4 allys going against a super power. From our catapults we can shoot projectiles while on fire...the Romans had some strong artillary back in the day, i was thinking a combination of Ostian Artillary and Frozo Long bows would be deadly..

raiding would keep the Austians occupied to a point and they would need to spread their forces as well.

the Toopians and some Frozopians could raid on the coasts and the rest of the alliance forces could gather as an army.

having most of the cavalry in one 'wing' of the force would be usefull for hitting forces in the flank and rear and any mounted archers should be in that formation. the rest of the cavalry should be on the right flank to guard against enemy cavalry and some infantry in a defensive square should be able to hold up a flank attack as well.

a mass of longbow archers is an effective tatctic and it would be mainly Frozopians archers in the formation since their bows are powerfull enough to pull the tactic off.

Kirisuban forces are either spear blocks, ninja or mounted skirmishers so they would have specilised tasks to perform.

My Aux troops are capible of preforming many tasks aswell, also i have 200 Praetorian guard..im not sure on what to do with them...they are the most highly trained troops avalible..i was thinking about using them as guards for my fortress because they are more valuble then my regular infantry man. As for your suggestions Kurisubo they seem to make sence. My troops can hold a very tight defencive line and are capible of advancing under heavy arrow fire and always remain in a box formation untill they reach the enemy where as you all know it's hell.

can't make subscribey thingy work. so here. i'm subscribed :D

Incognito, Kirisubo is based on feudal japan up to the early 1600's when the european expansion into the far east took place.

so you'll find the Portugese and Spanish around and acting as the middle men between Kirisuban and Han Empire merchants.

With the arrival of the Ostians from the west and Frozopia and Toops in the north the whole region is opening up.

feel free to send an explorer or merchant to the islands and we'll see what happens. maybe they heard the tales and are curious.

yeah, that sounds cool

I did just have a ship in Qarez, so trading in Kirisubo is consistent. I'll try and catch up with the IC thread, then if we're not embroiled in war by then send something out.