NationStates Jolt Archive

(OOC: based off of http://www.giat-industries.fr/asp/us/prod_bonus.asp )

IC:

Axis Nova is proud to announce the latest addition to our antivehicle arsenal: the Self Forging Fragment top-attack system. It works by having a submunition select a target, then using an explosion to convert the case into a molten penetrator, hitting the target from above and penetrating the top armor, at a speed that ensures evasion is impossible.

The sensor systems employed are simple laser ranging and multiband IR sensors, and the munition can be deployed from artillery shells, cruise missiles, ATGMs, and (most promisingly) mortar rounds. As the weapons system is completely self-contained, it requires no modifications to the firing system-- just launch the carrier over your target, wait for the submunitions to deploy, and watch enemy vehicles go up in smoke.

There is no defense against this weapon system but having top armor sufficient to shrug off the penetrator, which modern main battle tanks lack. Even the vaunted electric reactive armor cannot stop this munition.

This technology may be available for sale to certain select nations. Feel free to send a communique to our State Department if you are interested.

Iiinnnnterrrresting....

With any luck, this development will help shirk off some of the stagnation in Main Battle Tank design.

If this technology enters widespread usage, discerning militaries may pursue more unconventional AFV design, such as our own A1 Admiral series.

Speaking of which, how are the old boys working for you these days?

Or perhaps some sort of... tank roof?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v387/Praetonia/HopliteIIPhalanx-TankRoof.png

EDIT: In fact, the tank roof should work even better than against a regular top-attack ATGM, which could conceivably enter under the struts of the roof, although that would require precision guidance which is often not feasible at speed.

Praetonia, you are the biggest killjoy in the world. You know that?

Ha. I'd LOVE to see you drive a tank fitted like that through any sort of forest, or have it sneak up on anything.

Also I'd watch out for low bridges and power lines if I were you.

Anyways, not too hard to deal with. Just mix in normal HE shells along with the self-forging rounds-- that thing has got to be rather light weight if it's to be easily attached and carried. If it's a solid armor plate, then the rods holding it up will be under a lot of stress and thus easily broken.

Anyways, the majority of NS doesn't use tank roofs, so it's still quite a useful weapon.

Ha. I'd LOVE to see you drive a tank fitted like that through any sort of forest, or have it sneak up on anything.

Also I'd watch out for low bridges and power lines if I were you.

Anyways, not too hard to deal with. Just mix in normal HE shells along with the self-forging rounds-- that thing has got to be rather light weight if it's to be easily attached and carried. If it's a solid armor plate, then the rods holding it up will be under a lot of stress and thus easily broken.

Anyways, the majority of NS doesn't use tank roofs, so it's still quite a useful weapon.

Generally, tanks aren't that stealthy, and using them in forests really is asking for an AT Missile into its rear, so those objections are moot at best. The roof would seem to be a viable and relatively cheap defence.

Ha. I'd LOVE to see you drive a tank fitted like that through any sort of forest,
Why? The height is irrelevent for avoding trunks, and branches would simply be pushed aside.

or have it sneak up on anything.
If you're close enough to see it clearly, it's probably already shot at you.

Also I'd watch out for low bridges and power lines if I were you.
It's much lower than powerlines and it would make any difference even if it struck them. Bridges are a fair point, but it's not like it has to go under bridges very often.

Anyways, not too hard to deal with. Just mix in normal HE shells along with the self-forging rounds-- that thing has got to be rather light weight if it's to be easily attached and carried.
*shrug* Now you have to hit my tank twice to kill it. A fair trade for the minor inconvenience and expense of strapping a metal plate to the top of my tank, dont you think?

If it's a solid armor plate, then the rods holding it up will be under a lot of stress and thus easily broken.
The kind of accuracy required to hit the supports from any range would be astounding.

Anyways, the majority of NS doesn't use tank roofs, so it's still quite a useful weapon.
Spose.

Argh, I hate quoting posts all broken up in chunks like that :s

Re the forest thing: My point is that with branches large and thick enough, it will significantly impede progress if not snag.

Also, blowing out a few supports doesn't need anything particularly accurate-- a few shell fragments or sheer blast damage could do it.

Forest: True, but whatever.

Supports: Yeah maybe, but you still have fire two shots rather than just one, so I've still succeeding in making you fire more stuff just by bolting a steel plate onto the top of my tank.

The roof does not endear itself to small, compact, low-weight, or low silhouette tanks. The roof idea has already been suggested to help protect tank in real life. Also a roof that offered considerable protection would be heavy and or expensive (due to the cost of more exotic armor materials). Most of these are not big issues for NS tanks (many of which already have armor of sufficient thickness) as people are willing to have tanks that are much bigger, heavier, and more expensive then RL tanks.

I still like the idea behind BONUS

The submunitions are guided by multi-band infrared sensors, so technically they could be taken out by hard-kill Active Protection Systems (APS).

I still like the idea behind BONUS

Well it is hardly a new idea, self forging or explosively formed projectile weapons have been used in top attack applications for a good couple of years now, the most common being the BLU-108/B submuntion that can be delivered by a range of weapons such as the CBU-105 WCMD, tomahawk, ATACMS, JASSM etc etfc and was first issued in 1992.

truely i hardly see the point of even mnetioning this sort of tech as an anouncement i assumed just about everyone used them...

[OOC: Well, most tanks are outfitted with shortstop; even I, outfit in complimentary light vehicles, and since this is most certainly fuze operated, most will be rendered useless through the use of it. Nonetheless, I don't see the advantage of this over a SADARM artillery round.]

OOC: My question would be how or from where would you fire this. Specially designed arty piece? Helicopter?

I think this and/or something similar to it can be useful against most NS opponents that I'd expect to face. Fortunately, I don't think there's much chance that Praetonia and Sarzonia will ever fight against each other.

The roof does not endear itself to small, compact, low-weight, or low silhouette tanks.
My tank is not small, compact or low-weight anyway. Why does it matter? Survivability > stealth.

The roof idea has already been suggested to help protect tank in real life. Also a roof that offered considerable protection would be heavy and or expensive (due to the cost of more exotic armor materials). Most of these are not big issues for NS tanks (many of which already have armor of sufficient thickness) as people are willing to have tanks that are much bigger, heavier, and more expensive then RL tanks.
The point of the tank roof is not to actually stop the enemy projectile - that would be prohibitively heavy and impractical - it is just to deform the penetrator or, in the case of a HEAT round, prematurely detonate it. When you add ERA blocks onto the top as well, you get a pretty powerful yet low-weight system.

When you add ERA blocks onto the top as well, you get a pretty powerful yet low-weight system.
ERA blocks are quite heavy, actually.

ERA blocks are quite heavy, actually.
Not nearly as heavy as solid armour of the same RHA equivalent.

The submunitions are guided by multi-band infrared sensors, so technically they could be taken out by hard-kill Active Protection Systems (APS).

Hm. Perhaps a millimeter wave radar could be tossed in the larger ones?

edit: Majeristan, the system could be deployed from pretty much anything-- mortar rounds, missiles, bombs, artillery, you name it. That's what makes it so useful.

Well it is hardly a new idea, self forging or explosively formed projectile weapons have been used in top attack applications for a good couple of years now, the most common being the BLU-108/B submuntion that can be delivered by a range of weapons such as the CBU-105 WCMD, tomahawk, ATACMS, JASSM etc etfc and was first issued in 1992.

truely i hardly see the point of even mnetioning this sort of tech as an anouncement i assumed just about everyone used them...
Actually, the BLU-108/B SFW I recall was only fielded in a dumb submunition dispenser (aka cluster bomb) and perhaps its WCMD counterpart, and perhaps the JSOW if I recall correctly... The problem with SFW, when compared to smaller submunitions such as the CEM (widely deployed in bombs as well as cruise missiles, but less potent in terms of anti-armour capabilities), is that it is fairly big and heavy, which means that you can only deploy it in very limited quantities (and in some cases you can't really deploy them in a practical fashion at all, i.e. in small mortar shells.

The BONUS I believe is very similar to the SADARM, which is also quite big. Really though, as Macabees suggested, there isn't anything overly special - both fires an EFP from the top, which might still be degraded in its effectiveness with a tank roof. However, I also don't think it is overly tricky to stop with an active anti-missile/projectile defence system (since things like the ARENA can already engage top attack missiles). With shortstop, it depends on the fuze as Shortstop only stops proximity-fuzed artillery rounds; on the other hand, if deployed in missiles, there is still a possibility that the missile itself may be destroyed by accompanying SPAAGs with short-range radar guided missiles. Thigns like the BONUS, SADARM, and the SFW are not things will guarentee you mass tank kills, but instead adds improved anti-armour capabilities for artillery shells as well as standoff munitions at the cost of weight and quantity carried.

Fair enough. Still, it beats the 'ol cluster bomblet.