NationStates Jolt Archive

The Hellbringer-PMT
A 68-ton all-electric tank with enhanced lethality, survivability and mobility. It includes a three DREAD weapon systems for close-in weapons and a 120mm electromagnetic rail gun, Active armor, electric drive transmission and electro-mechanical active suspension. It has a crew of two, a very low signature with active protection and 250 RHA armor. This is a highly mobile armored vehicle is much more versatile than the M1 Abrams tanks series .The tank uses a automated loader in place of a loader. Using a AIVOA (Artificial Intelegence Vehicle Operating System) the tank is almost capable of running on its own. Using AIVOA the tank can track over 500 targets at one time. The tank is fully EMP hardened.

Manufacturer: The Tokera
Crew: 2 (Gunner, Commander/ Driver)
Weight: 63 Tons
Propulsion: Rascal D-2 diesel engine,
Battery: 600V regenitive battery for the main gun
Length: 32.5
Width: 12.0
Height: 8.0
Maximum Speed: 65 Mph
Speed Cross Country: 45 Mph
Speed 10% Slope: 30 Mph
Speed 60% Slope: 10 Mph
Range: 300 miles
Armor: 3,000mm RHA, carbonite armor
Main Armament: 120mm Electromagnetic Rail Gun
Secondary Armament: 2 .50 cal machine guns, 1 .308 cal machine gun, Replacable with MK-23 40mm Grenade Machine Gun, 66 mm smoke granade launcher, 2 next generation stinger missiles.
Basic Load: Main Gun 50 rounds,Commander's weapon system 5,000 rounds of .308 Cal., or 2,000 rounds of .50 Cal. ammo (COAX)/automated 5,000 rounds of .308 Cal.(one is automated for missile and aircraft defence), or MK-23 automatic granade launcher, 66 mm Smoke Grenades 24 rounds
NBC System: CleanCool NBC Filter System.
Cost: $12,000,000

This is not currently for sale, this is just to see if the design works out.

[OOC: 1) Considering the railgun and automation, I would call this PMT.

2) What is a "Shockwave electric engine"?

3) What is "carbonite"?

4) DREAD is somewhat dubious. As far as I am aware, it has never been demonstrated and the developer is refusing to answer questions on its operation. Most of what yuo read is propaganda put about by his company.

5) Is you armour rating RHA or a nominal value? If it's a nominal value then it isnt very useful and if it's RHA then it's way too low.]

[OOC: 1) Considering the railgun and automation, I would call this PMT.

2) What is a "Shockwave electric engine"?

3) What is "carbonite"?

4) DREAD is somewhat dubious. As far as I am aware, it has never been demonstrated and the developer is refusing to answer questions on its operation. Most of what yuo read is propaganda put about by his company.

5) Is you armour rating RHA or a nominal value? If it's a nominal value then it isnt very useful and if it's RHA then it's way too low.]

1)yes this is PMT I forgot to add that
2) Shock wave electric engine is a high grade electric engine(its just my brand)
3) Carbonite is a strong material that is composed of enhanced carbon, it is aproximatley 10 times stronger than steel
4)well its not really that exact version but my own version
5) I guess it is normal value but im not sure, that is what this thread is for, to help me work out the kinks.

just let me know what needs to be changed or improved, I would appreciate any suggestions you could give

1)yes this is PMT I forgot to add that
2) Shock wave electric engine is a high grade electric engine(its just my brand)
3) Carbonite is a strong material that is composed of enhanced carbon, it is aproximatley 10 times stronger than steel
4)well its not really that exact version but my own version
5) I guess it is normal value but im not sure, that is what this thread is for, to help me work out the kinks.
1) kk.
2) How does an "electric engine" work?
3) Never heard of it, but PMT weirdness will probably explain it.
4) In what way is it different?
5) Ah, use RHA. Most MT advanced NS tanks have a maximum of around 3,000mm RHA ont he front turret (usually the most heavily armoured bit of a tank).

[OOC: DREAD is known to be a very iffy application, including some problems in the description that go against the laws of physics. Other than that, it's also a very innacurate weapon, meaning a more standard CIWS would probably better, and for anti-infantry application a simple machinegun. An ETC alone takes around 600 volts of electricity; a rail gun would be at least three times the power requirements, and so highly non-applicable on a MT or PMT tank. You're going to have a lot of problems powering a 67 ton tank, with such electricity eating weapons, with an all electrical engine.]

1) kk.
2) How does an "electric engine" work?
3) Never heard of it, but PMT weirdness will probably explain it.
4) In what way is it different?
5) Ah, use RHA. Most MT advanced NS tanks have a maximum of around 3,000mm RHA ont he front turret (usually the most heavily armoured bit of a tank).

2) im not really sure how the engine works.
3) It is a made up material, it is mined in my nation.
4)Its just improved, better acuracy, lower power requirements..etc.
5)ok so 3,000 RHA

[OOC: DREAD is known to be a very iffy application, including some problems in the description that go against the laws of physics. Other than that, it's also a very innacurate weapon, meaning a more standard CIWS would probably better, and for anti-infantry application a simple machinegun. An ETC alone takes around 600 volts of electricity; a rail gun would be at least three times the power requirements, and so highly non-applicable on a MT or PMT tank. You're going to have a lot of problems powering a 67 ton tank, with such electricity eating weapons, with an all electrical engine.]

well its not just a electric engine, there is a back up diesel engine. What about the electric engine powers the rail gun and electric parts and the disel engine is for propulsion, or is that a little too much having two engines?

[OOC: Well, it would be much more effecient to have a diesel engine (or bio diesel engine), and have a 600V regenitive battery for the main gun, as well as for other applications on the tank.]

[OOC: Well, it would be much more effecient to have a diesel engine (or bio diesel engine), and have a 600V regenitive battery for the main gun, as well as for other applications on the tank.]

what is a bio diesel engine?

so instead of having the electric engine a 600v regenitive battery. What else would help?

[OOC:

http://www.biodiesel.org/

I would reduce round stocks from 10,000 rounds to around 2,000 maximum; you really don't have enough space, assuming that those statistics are in feet (if in meters, the tank is too big). But, apart from that, it looks okay to me.]

oh ok, well that is what several sites said the capacity for the dread gun is for .50 cal. Also they are not normal rounds, they are like .50 cal tungsten golf ball shaped balls. I assume the ball shape allows for more ammunition storage.

OOC: I would strongly recommend hardening this for EMP, one well placed pulse and your primary weapon system and engine are gone.

oh ok, well that is what several sites said the capacity for the dread gun is for .50 cal. Also they are not normal rounds, they are like .50 cal tungsten golf ball shaped balls. I assume the ball shape allows for more ammunition storage.

Yes, but a circular shape creates more air resitance, which makes the range shorter. In addition, a ball shaped round is less accurate than a traditonal round because of it's non-aerodynamic shape. Finally, a ball would have a harder time piercing armor due to it's shape.

Yes, but a circular shape creates more air resitance, which makes the range shorter. In addition, a ball shaped round is less accurate than a traditonal round because of it's non-aerodynamic shape. Finally, a ball would have a harder time piercing armor due to it's shape.

1) that is what the "dimpples" on the balls are for, ever wonder why golf balls have thoes little indents. The dimples "scrub" the air behind the ball reducing resistance.

2)again with with the indents, they make it more aerodynamic

3) the dread system shoots the balls out at 5,000 - 8,000 fps

OOC: I would strongly recommend hardening this for EMP, one well placed pulse and your primary weapon system and engine are gone.

Yah i forgot that, thanks

anything else?

anything else?

Umm, other than DREAD is a farce, use something that works, no, nothing.

ok sounds good, Im going to keep the dread gun though.

You do know the DREAD is pretty much godmodding if you use their company stats...

The gun is not accurate. That video was a short range firing and there was a huge dispersal pattern on the ammo. And that's with the magical dimples.

Also, the 8000 fps is the MUZZLE velocity. Do you have any idea how much it will slow down?

"My calculations for the ballistic coefficient of .308 dimpled tungsten balls arrived at roughly .055. A .308 smooth lead ball (44 gr.) has a ballistic coefficient of .043 (just for comparison). Obviously, the BC changes with velocity, but .055 is a good, and fair approximation of the BC. So a .308 tungsten dimpled ball would weigh about 50 grains and would have 999 or so ft/lbs muzzle energy when traveling at 3000 fps. Not bad until I saw the results under STP (Standard Temperature and Pressure). By the time it has reached 25 yards, its velocity was 2579 fps and ME in ft/lbs was 738. At 50 yards: 2195 fps and 535 ft/lbs. 100 yards: 1537 fps and 262 ft/bs. 200 yards: 914 fps and 93 ft/lbs. 300 yards: 711 fps and 56 ft/lbs. At 300 yards it has dropped 84 inches. those results are very telling. At 300 yards, the projectile would have as much stopping power as an airgun (albiet a VERY powerful one). The poor penetrating power of spheres (the USS Constitution and eary iron clads can attest to that) only adds insult to injury. Even if you boosted velocity to 5000 fps, the projectiles would only have 88 ft/lbs of KE at 300 yards. Do the math, and you will see the truth. The Dread is Dead. There is no way that the military is going to deploy a weapon sytem that is SO INEFFICIENT in ballistics test, and ultimately killing power. Muzzle Energy is one thing, but terminal energy is another."

Taken from http://www.defensereview.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=526 . Scroll down, and you'll find out why the DREAD is nowhere near effective as it as advertised.

its not godmodding there is one crucial failure that the tank has...its crew driver and captain at same time uhhh ok. By its very nature a mbt needs at least 3 crew one comander, one driver and one gunner. You cant really do double duty because A you cant see, B its hard to control and C its entire C&C systems are controlled by the same guy that drives it and commands it. The tank is actually no good at all. 3 man crew minimum otherwise its simply going to be outmaneveured and smashed to pieces by any properly crewed tank. Now if you want one man Combat vehicles or even two man think walkers. Thats what they are for.

1) no it is not the companys, I just used the link to explain it, It is just a cetrifuge gun. My own design

2) The tank driving systems are aided by a advanced AI sysetm, which prety much drives the tank, finds targets and other functions. The Commander/driver simply selects waypoints or a destination and the AI system takes over and finds the easiest way there. There are several other options that the commander can choose.

1) no it is not the companys, I just used the link to explain it, It is just a cetrifuge gun. My own design

2) The tank driving systems are aided by a advanced AI sysetm, which prety much drives the tank, finds targets and other functions. The Commander/driver simply selects waypoints or a destination and the AI system takes over and finds the easiest way there. There are several other options that the commander can choose.

So? The same thing applies to any centrifuge gun, no matter who designs it. It doesn't work as a weapon because of its spherical ammunition, especially not against airborne targets (which will be much farther out than the 200 yards a centrifuge gun will be lethal at).

ok

Tannelorn only ever used one tank and it was a failure so they stopped. WE prefer much higher techitems, likegiantrobots smaller ones all using fusionengines and "hoverskates" they ride on plumes of air. Also our Version of a Tank company is ten 500meter cruisers armedwith alot ofnasty weapons carrying 1000 men and 150 support vehicles and 40fighters lol. Still an AI wouldnt cut it, once again thats the domain of robot suits, the AI no matter how advanced is still a drone. Mightas well make it a drone tank. is this MT? or PMT?

If you could figure out a way to mate a proper barrel to a centrifuge system, ala the SOC thing i tried a while ago then I can imagine it being used as a good ciws, but i doubt you could get some of the wankish rofs of DREAD.

Also, 2 man crews, even when aided by AI (always more falable than humans in anything less than a FT setting), make this tank horribly unweildy and complicated. Even with AI, 2 man tanks require so much focus to control that for any extended operation could exhaust the crew and leave them vulnerable to poor decision making, even with an advanced AI. Such a situation on an advance would require refresher crews for tanks; fresh bodys who aren't as worn out; effectivly doubling logistical requirements for every tank - making them more expensive to run. Two man crews would be better suited to tanks in a well defined defensive role, where one side is always in your hands, freeing the crew to focus elsewhere. But a role like this makes tanks expensive anti tank weapons.


And no matter how many fancy detection gizmos you stuff on your tank, it's unlikely to see 500 targets on a battlefield. There isn't enough radar, lidar, acustics, or SaB penetration in the world to see a well planned ambush. 500 targets will likely lead to priority issues anyway.

Oh, and NE - Not all centrifugal systems must be limited to ball ammunition. (not willing to explain all the details on SOC here though)

ok that answers the pmt question, Tannelorn is full on Interstellar FT lol.and he is right you need 3 crew or make it a drone tank. no modern or even post modern AI is as good as a crewman no matter what.