NationStates Jolt Archive

((OOC: Forgive the crude nature of the explanation. Weapon summaries aren't my strong suit.))


http://usera.imagecave.com/mobrule132001/GS-11.bmp.jpg

Alexian design works have always adhered to three ideals in producing weapons for the Empire and the world: versatility, accessibility, and ingenuity. Designed as the Generian counterpart to the revered, Doomingsland made DAC-91 series of weapons, the GS-1 machine pistol represents the true combination of these ideals.

The GS-1 is designed to serve as a compact, lightweight personal defense weapon for law enforcement, military, and civilian personnel. Sporting a helical magazine that can hold either 50 or 100 caseless 4.8x33mm rounds, it also guarantees high ammunition capacity and stopping power. The helical magazine is constructed largely from plastics, and the rounds inside follow a groove with a central ‘follower’, operated by a spiral spring, assisting to guide the rounds along the track. The magazine is equipped with a winding handle allowing the magazines to be stored in unwound configuration, and then to be quickly rewound before loading. When not in use, a spare magazine can be easily attached to the rear of the weapon for use as a buttstock.

As the weapon is intended for law enforcement and personal defense purposes, it has been designed with as few parts as possible to allow for easy disassembly, repair, and maintenance, as well as increased reliability.

The 4.8x33mm round, despite its small size is through extremely high velocity capable of piercing most modern body armor and making short work of other soft targets, making it ideal for heated close quarters fighting.

For better stopping power against unarmored targets, a model chambered for the 9x19mm round is also available.

Statistics:

Caliber: 9x19/4.8x33
Weight: 1.5kg
Length (with stock/without stock): 300mm/500mm
Rate of fire: 800 rounds/minute
Magazine capacity: 4.8x33: 50/100 9x19: 64
Effective Range: 150 meters
Fire Modes: Single, Automatic

Cost per unit:

150 USDs

[OOC: The small calibre really concerns me in terms of its ability to kill someone at short range. Number one, I don't think any pistol is going to have much luck against armour per se, but number two, but an .19 calibre pistol is going to be hard pressed to have the sort of stopping power you need.

Then again, that's just my first impression. Doom would be able to tell you a lot more about the subject than I can.]

[OOC: The small calibre really concerns me in terms of its ability to kill someone at short range. Number one, I don't think any pistol is going to have much luck against armour per se, but number two, but an .19 calibre pistol is going to be hard pressed to have the sort of stopping power you need.

Then again, that's just my first impression. Doom would be able to tell you a lot more about the subject than I can.]

((OOC: It's the same caliber Doom's MP uses. If he's supposed to be the expert...

And compliment me on my awesome MS Paint drawing.))

[OOC: This is quite a nice weapon in the style of the P90, but a small round is hardly ideal for a close combat situation. You'll make short work of body armour with your small, high velocity round, but the wound it makes isnt going to be particularly large, and it will probably lack short range stopping power. It will also go through plasterboard walls with relative ease, which isnt very good for close quarters combat in buildings because you can easily spray bullets at a target and inadvertently hit someone you dont want to hit (civilian, your own troops, whatever) on the other side. On the other hand, as I said the small, fast round wont be troubled by body armour, and you can store far more ammunition than you could with a larger round.]

((OOC: It's the same caliber Doom's MP uses. If he's supposed to be the expert...

And compliment me on my awesome MS Paint drawing.))
[OOC: If he uses it, I'd defer to his expertise. Like I said, I'm no firearms expert.]

OOC: The G11 used a 4.7x33mm caseless round, it had similar stopping power to the 5.56x45mm cased, not sure if that's good or bad. P

[OOC: This is quite a nice weapon in the style of the P90, but a small round is hardly ideal for a close combat situation. You'll make short work of body armour with your small, high velocity round, but the wound it makes isnt going to be particularly large, and it will probably lack short range stopping power. It will also go through plasterboard walls with relative ease, which isnt very good for close quarters combat in buildings because you can easily spray bullets at a target and inadvertently hit someone you dont want to hit (civilian, your own troops, whatever) on the other side. On the other hand, as I said the small, fast round wont be troubled by body armour, and you can store far more ammunition than you could with a larger round.]
Well, the same could be said of the P-90. If one were to 'stack' rounds, that is, alternate in the type used (have one round be a hollowpoint, the next be AP, the next hollowpoint, ect.), you can effectively tackle both armored and unarmored targets. This technique is used in alot of police departments (in fact, I first heard of this from a SWAT officer) Besides, a military SMG is going to want armor piercing capability, something a .45 or 9mm SMG isn't going to give you, seeing as most NS nations issue their troops body armor.

[OOC: Indeed, and such criticisms have been levelled at the P90, but overall I agree. In an environment where practically everyone has body armour, it's better to be able to injure your actual target than to be able to drop in one shot a similar target that isnt armoured. I personally use a .45 pistol in my military, which although caseless isnt much shorter than a normal .45 round, so gets a higher velocity for better AP characteristics, but that has associated recoil problems.]

i would put the role as a special operatives smg.

it would go throught armour and hurt but not blast walls or hostages up.

OOC: The G11 used a 4.7x33mm caseless round, it had similar stopping power to the 5.56x45mm cased, not sure if that's good or bad. P
OOC: Similar ballistics, not stopping power. However, considering how body armour has been so prevalent among NS ground forces, I would rather put my bid on armour-piercing capability.

OOC:OOC: The G11 used a 4.7x33mm caseless round, it had similar stopping power to the 5.56x45mm cased, not sure if that's good or bad. PIts "stopping power" was inferior to that of 5.56x45mm ammunition, but part of that was due to the projectile's design. You could modify it to do much more damage, but if you went for maximum stopping power that would compromise its armor penetration capability. You could use armor-penetrating 9x21(ish)mm ammunition for greater stopping power, but armor penetration will likely be inferior. Anything you put in a machine pistol will likely be incapable of penetrating the body armor used in some nations, including Nianacio, though.

OT but answerable by people posting in this thread: Is the InvisionFree server that hosts Lineartinc and The NS Draftroom down?

Edit: Actually, I only have some penetration info for 9mm AP ammunition. Its stopping power may be just as bad as 4.7x33, or even worse with the stubby bullet.

((
my gun go:mp5: :sniper: heaps weeeeeeeee.
well i think who ever posted that should be shot with his own gun eh chaps eh

well i think who ever posted that should be shot with his own gun eh chaps eh

Ah, the newbie's second post is a direct and uncalled-for insult and a poor stab at humor. Touche.

[OOC: Nianacio - Yes, the whole s13 server is currently indefinately down.]

The G-11's 4.7mm has poor stopping power on its own, but the weapon is meant to be fired in extremely rapid (2000 RPM+) three round bursts which force multiplies for the weapon and its small round.
Anyway, I bought limited producton rights to Doom's DAC-91 so I could produce a 9mm variant as I agree that in its self 4.8x33mm isn't enough for CQB/counterterror situations.

I added a 9mm variant, so you can all stop your bitching now.

Your idea is good, and the disign is about as good as you will be able to get.

the PDW is a very hard thing to design, look at the P90 and MP7 both are real weapons that are very capable and made by very talented profesinals but they both suffer thier own faults, the problem is that no gun is the perfect weapon.

But your's is good

Is the "helical magazine" idea from the Bizon or the Calico?

Also I think what they want is a heavy 9mm bullet put in place of the smaller 4.8mm bullet but retaining the same propelent ( 9 x 33 caseless ). (Doing so could reduce capacity, and would at least double recoil)

But subguns have always been critisized for poor stoping power...

The idea is how do you use the weapon, with a light bullet at high velocity, you have good penatration but poor leathality (most pistol bullets are considered poor in leathality compared to compaact rifles). But the weapon is contolable on full auto fire.

Use it like the SAS are known to use the MP5, fire from the hip full auto and walk the rounds to your target if you miss. This way multiple bullets provide the neeeded stopping power. Though this would not be acceptable use by police...

It could serve paramillitary, Spec Ops, and people who would not wish to be burdened with even the most compact of assault rifles (like my Type 106 SMG, heavier then your gun, fire rifle ammo so capacity is poor, it is far more expensive, in most compact form is as long as your weapon is with the but extended, and considerable heavier, not to mention you gun will probobly have a longer barrel).

I only have one thing which i think would be an improvment. Up cost. The weapon is an advanced and complicated design with requirments of tight control of production, as it is a caseless design. I think $350 would be a good number. If you do that then you can also brag about accuracy and quality of the weapon as well (this comes from the fact that the percision required for caseless [in the modern millitary small arms idea of caseless] must be much higher due to the requirment of a perfect seal, also means that the weapons would have to be well made and most probibly would be very accurate for there type).

Sorry for all of the typos

I think GE took the helical design from the PP-90M1. When I designed the DAC-91, I got the idea from the Calico.