NationStates Jolt Archive

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Inter-Stellar News Network (I.S.N.N.) - International Broadcast

Newsanchor: "Today, the Imperial Star Navy is in a rare mood. For today, they have launched the first Forschung class (http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10117895&postcount=156) star destroyer. From what they have revealed, the Forschung class is 100% designed and built by SeaQuestians with SeaQuestian technology only.

Here is the recently released video of the launching ceromony. You can clearly see the champagen bottle as it strikes the bow during the christining of the I.S.S. Forschung."

*Video Plays*

*Screen returns to News Room*

Newsanchor: "From what I understand, the Forschung and her sister ships, which they only just started construction on, will become one of the most wide-spread ship types the SeaQuestian Imperial Star Navy fields."

*Screen Fades to black*

*I.S.N. Logo Appears*

OOC: Okay, time for any OOC comments. IC messages to my government also welcome.

((OC- Looking at specs for the ship and all. Two things stick out.

1. A 'lot' of various armament for the vessel, if in mostly singular numbers. Seems like it makes things a tic cramped for the crew.

2. Speaking of the crew, what's the crew compliment? Or is this a Droid type warship?

Looks good otherwise. =^^= ))

OOC: Yeah, I just noticed I had forgotten to list the crew size (its supposed to be 250 for this beauty), so I just added it to the stats a minute ago.

Also, the only androids I use are the kind that qualify as sentient life-forms and form part of my national population (two types (one is the Soong-type (Data from Star Trek: The Next Generation) and the other is the Wayneright-type (Dorothy from Big O)).

Oh, and thanks.

OOC: Bump.

OOC: Bump for the morning.

I like most of what I see, but there are some things which I think you should change. I've been considering to put on the type X phaser arrays on some of my newer TSD designs, but I'm still not so sure.

1) there are too many different types of weaponery for this vessel, sd's like to have at most 8-10 different types (unless that's the idea of this vessel, which case scratch this one.)

2) organize your defenses into the following categories: Shielding, Hull (includes ablative), Tractor beams, FTLi, stealth, ect.

3) OOC: Yeah, I just noticed I had forgotten to list the crew size (its supposed to be 250 for this beauty), so I just added it to the stats a minute ago.

250 people??? I know you use st tech, but listen up for SD's: NEVER have less than 5000 (depending on size). For some reason, people on NS just don't buy that no matter how technologicaly advanced you are, you can't have a number.


That's my tidbit of info. Otherwise, good start.

~Huntaer~

(OOC: I for the most part agree with Huntaer here. The huge variety of weapons may seem impressive, but when when you get right down to it, you've only got a max of 2-20 of each type. I suggest simplifying, or standardizing one weapon type as your predominant weapon, then fill in the niche weapons later.

To be honest, I'm not at all overwhelmed by the number of weapons on this ship, as it's a only a tad over 100, and looking through your notes, none of them seem to offer anything special in terms of capabilities, nor do they seem to add much in the way of things that would be interesting to RP.

I understand that you want to have weapons that can blast through anything, but your over diversity is only complicating that. I guarantee you you will not want to have to explain every time you shoot one of your weapons, what it does, nor will everyone want to spend time reading all of your notes.

If anything, make one weapon, make it do more than one thing, and you'll probably be better off. For example, rather than Electromagnetic Transperancy System, Minbari Stealth Device, Vorlon Sensor Jammers, Chameleon Skin Stealth System, and Sernaix Phase Cloaking Device, just say something like, "Seaquestian 1089-A stealth system: Includes...", and then list all those capabilities that all your multiple systems provides. You get to keep your adaptability, and it make things easier to understand.

Standardizing will help your vessel to the n'th degree. Just my 2 cents.

All in all, not bad.)

I like most of what I see, but there are some things which I think you should change. I've been considering to put on the type X phaser arrays on some of my newer TSD designs, but I'm still not so sure.

1) there are too many different types of weaponery for this vessel, sd's like to have at most 8-10 different types (unless that's the idea of this vessel, which case scratch this one.)

2) organize your defenses into the following categories: Shielding, Hull (includes ablative), Tractor beams, FTLi, stealth, ect.

3)

250 people??? I know you use st tech, but listen up for SD's: NEVER have less than 5000 (depending on size). For some reason, people on NS just don't buy that no matter how technologicaly advanced you are, you can't have a number.


That's my tidbit of info. Otherwise, good start.

~Huntaer~

OOC: Here are my responses:
1.) The whole purpose of this ship was to create a Star Destroyer-type vessel without using Star Wars techonology. Most of the tech I used comes from either the Star Trek universe or the babylon 5 universe.
2.) I will see what I can do (though I really don't have anything in the FTLi department).
3.) Actually, for the most part I operate with a Babylon 5 mentality (ie, big ships, small crew). For example, the Nova class dreadnaught, at 1,502.1 meters in length, has a crew of only 250. This is caused by the immense amount of the ship that is actually taken up by the armor (8-10 meters in the Nova's case) and other systems. Weapons can be mounted externally (like the M.P.A.s (combines sensors and weapons in one unit) which are just strips mounted on/in the outer hull). Though, unlike most ships in the Babylon 5 universe, I do use energy shields on my capital ships and some of my fighters.

(OOC: I for the most part agree with Huntaer here. The huge variety of weapons may seem impressive, but when when you get right down to it, you've only got a max of 2-20 of each type. I suggest simplifying, or standardizing one weapon type as your predominant weapon, then fill in the niche weapons later.

To be honest, I'm not at all overwhelmed by the number of weapons on this ship, as it's a only a tad over 100, and looking through your notes, none of them seem to offer anything special in terms of capabilities, nor do they seem to add much in the way of things that would be interesting to RP.

I understand that you want to have weapons that can blast through anything, but your over diversity is only complicating that. I guarantee you you will not want to have to explain every time you shoot one of your weapons, what it does, nor will everyone want to spend time reading all of your notes.

If anything, make one weapon, make it do more than one thing, and you'll probably be better off. For example, rather than Electromagnetic Transperancy System, Minbari Stealth Device, Vorlon Sensor Jammers, Chameleon Skin Stealth System, and Sernaix Phase Cloaking Device, just say something like, "Seaquestian 1089-A stealth system: Includes...", and then list all those capabilities that all your multiple systems provides. You get to keep your adaptability, and it make things easier to understand.

Standardizing will help your vessel to the n'th degree. Just my 2 cents.

All in all, not bad.)

OOC: I understand standardization may be useful, in some cases. I like to use specifics though. But that idea of combining like systems into an array, like you suggested, sounds like a good idea.

OOC: Okay, I cleaned up the Defense Systems list by merging the stealth systems and shield systems into two Standardized Packages. Any opinions on the Offensive Systems list?

OOC: Okay, I cleaned up the Defense Systems list by merging the stealth systems and shield systems into two Standardized Packages. Any opinions on the Offensive Systems list?

(OOC: I can't really say much there, but if you can, try to cut down on the variety of weapons that you have, or try to categorize what you have through their firepower, and their intended purpose.

When I look at the weapons list, I just see a list of weapons, and I have no clue what does what, and what attacks where.
so something like, "Shield piercers: blah, blah. Long range artillery: Blah, blah, etc." Whatever you feel should be categorized as what, you should do, because the way things are now, I'm not sure if this is anti-capital ship, anti-planetary, a little bit of everything... Yeah...)

(OOC: I can't really say much there, but if you can, try to cut down on the variety of weapons that you have, or try to categorize what you have through their firepower, and their intended purpose.

When I look at the weapons list, I just see a list of weapons, and I have no clue what does what, and what attacks where.
so something like, "Shield piercers: blah, blah. Long range artillery: Blah, blah, etc." Whatever you feel should be categorized as what, you should do, because the way things are now, I'm not sure if this is anti-capital ship, anti-planetary, a little bit of everything... Yeah...)

OOC: Good point. I'll see what I can do.

Of course, the only thing I have that is anti-planetary are my Harpy class anti-planet munitions (5 can waste a standard M-class planet) and this ship is equipped with them.

As for the weapons, its all anti-capital ship. (Though, the intercepter grid could count as anti-fighter even though its supposed to be a point defense system).

Oh, I guess I should mention, my stuff relies more on armor than energy shields. Just like it was in the Babylon 5 universe. I just added the Star Trek style shields on my custom designs, they are not included on the canon designs I use (except for when it was canon, like the Whitestar).

OOC: I added some stuff on the weapons at the bottom.

OOC: I also went through and labeled each weapon as to what type it was (Beam, Beam/Burst, Beam/Pulse, Pulse, or Projectile).

OOC: Looks fabulous man, great ship design.

IC: Beamed Message from Bluntmandia Defense Forces HQ: "Congrats on your new ship type, she is a beauty."

OOC: Id like to make a modded version of your Fighter here (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10117605&postcount=118) into a Veritech Fighter Veraint of mine.

OOC: Okay, as the Forschung class is a design with anti-capital ship weapons, I designed an anti-fighter frigate (http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10125291&postcount=166) to go along as an anti-fighter ship. Good idea, or not? This is just to hold over until I design my next, more balanced, non-Star Wars tech Star Destroyer (not counting the Super Star Destroyer (3 km long) that I designed to just be a bigger version of the Forschung, except with a different hull).

OOC: Looks fabulous man, great ship design.

IC: Beamed Message from Bluntmandia Defense Forces HQ: "Congrats on your new ship type, she is a beauty."

OOC: Id like to make a modded version of your Fighter here (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10117605&postcount=118) into a Veritech Fighter Veraint of mine.

OOC: Please explain what you want to do to my Dark Angel class fighter.

Mmk, here's the ultra-simplified stats I see when I read that list: (just condensing for ease)

legnth: 2.1 kilometers
crew: 250
weapons: 187 of assorted types (22 types)
Embarked craft: 100 fighters, 10 shuttles (You might want some bombers in there)
power: 4 reactors, 3 auxiliary (that's how it looks to me, correct me if I'm wrong)

You had better have some MASSIVE AI on that bird if you ever hope to keep it running. If you'd really like to simplify on gunners/gunner programs, then start slaving weapons together. Drasticly reduces the number of things you can independantly target, but drasticly decreases the number of individual gunners needed. Also, it looks like you're making a jack of trades. With this many weapons, you can't put as much energy to each. (I'm a fan of a few heavy weapons that can do many things rather than a bazillion weaker that are ultraspecialized)

Keep in mind the scale of this thing too. 250 might possibly be enough to RUN this ship in an emergency non-combat situation. (only engines/FTL, life support, and sensors running, shields down, weapons de-activated, etc) In combat, you're going to have situations where a LOT of crew die, but the ship is still quite combat capable. You'll need replacements. Also, you're going to need a lot of people to work on damage that a target this big WILL sustain. It's a good idea to be able to repair damage quickly and be able to function as close to 100% combat effectiveness as possible.

That is why my Aardvark cruisers have such a 'large' crew complement compared to their size. Many think it insane to have 1,960 (1,650 crew) people on a 600 meter cruiser. But I see it as expendability and the ability to keep her running where other ships would be torn to shreds and completly without crew. This is not a technology issue, it's an issue with being able to control and repair your creations under the absolute WORST conditions.

Note that even the Akira class starships you use have more crewmen.

OOC: I'd say star destroyers are too generalised for my taste - A small fleet of specialist ships would perform better.

For instance, your hypergraviton blaster (WMG) is less effective because the shape means that in order to fully employ your armory, you need to fire broadsides. Also, it would be ineffective against most ships - If they're smaller, it's impossible to properly target, unless it's a battleship moving at top speed. If you are moving quickly, it's impossible to turn and fire. If they can move faster than you can turn, same thing.

On the other hand, a cruiser purpose built to use this gun and is otherwise relying on the fleet, would have more powerful turning thrusters and thus has a larger scope of ships to fire at.

Even if it's designated anti-capital ship, it's already a very large ship and is not paticularly well suited to taking on smaller capital ships/ships of the line.

The best sort of anti-capital ship would be some sort of frigate with a devastating weapon that can be fired at long range.

Mmk, here's the ultra-simplified stats I see when I read that list: (just condensing for ease)

legnth: 2.1 kilometers
crew: 250
weapons: 187 of assorted types (22 types)
Embarked craft: 100 fighters, 10 shuttles (You might want some bombers in there)
power: 4 reactors, 3 auxiliary (that's how it looks to me, correct me if I'm wrong)

You had better have some MASSIVE AI on that bird if you ever hope to keep it running. If you'd really like to simplify on gunners/gunner programs, then start slaving weapons together. Drasticly reduces the number of things you can independantly target, but drasticly decreases the number of individual gunners needed. Also, it looks like you're making a jack of trades. With this many weapons, you can't put as much energy to each. (I'm a fan of a few heavy weapons that can do many things rather than a bazillion weaker that are ultraspecialized)

Keep in mind the scale of this thing too. 250 might possibly be enough to RUN this ship in an emergency non-combat situation. (only engines/FTL, life support, and sensors running, shields down, weapons de-activated, etc) In combat, you're going to have situations where a LOT of crew die, but the ship is still quite combat capable. You'll need replacements. Also, you're going to need a lot of people to work on damage that a target this big WILL sustain. It's a good idea to be able to repair damage quickly and be able to function as close to 100% combat effectiveness as possible.

That is why my Aardvark cruisers have such a 'large' crew complement compared to their size. Many think it insane to have 1,960 (1,650 crew) people on a 600 meter cruiser. But I see it as expendability and the ability to keep her running where other ships would be torn to shreds and completly without crew. This is not a technology issue, it's an issue with being able to control and repair your creations under the absolute WORST conditions.

Note that even the Akira class starships you use have more crewmen.

OOC: As to the matter of power, please read the following:

TYPE


QUANTUM SINGULARITY

OUTPUT


9*1016 Joule per. Kilogram

DESCRIPTION


Quantum/Gravitic reactor is the primary power plant utilized by the Star Navy. This system uses a complex series of graviton beams to mimic the destructive power of a black hole on a local scale, creating an artificial quantum singularity.
This self sustaining reactor system destroys all matter introduced into the singularity, creating a 100% energy release. Efficiency of a given ship to exploit this energy release varies.
Process begins with a series of high-energy fusion reactors, which are used to manipulate zero-point energy to mimic gravity and create the singularity. Once the singularity is formed, any and all matter introduced into the reactor is destroyed, creating a massive energy release.
As any form of matter can be used as fuel for the singularity, this form of reactor has a near infinite run time - so long as there is matter to be used as fuel, the Quantum/Gravitic reactor will continue to produce power. In addition, a key byproduct of this form of reaction is antimatter, which can be used both as a weapon or a secondary power source.
Key advantage of the Quantum/Gravitic reactor over a matter/antimatter reactor is system is efficiency and stability. The Quantum/Gravitic reactor only uses half the fuel of an antimatter based system and, unlike a matter/antimatter reactor, should this form of reactor breech the singularity will simply collapse with almost no adverse effects.
Once the singularity is shut down all form of mass compression will cease and, with the exception of one final burst of antimatter, energy production stops almost instantaneously.

And this ship has 4 Quantum/Gravitic Reactors.
And please note, the Akira class crew compliment also includes the fighter pilots.
Also, I never intended this ship to go unescorted in combat situations, that's why I made the anti-fighter frigate and I do have other designs.

As for your point about the crew, the Explorer class ship is 6,103 meters long and only has a crew of 350. The Nova class dreadnaught has 250 crew members, 8,000 troops, 36 fighters, and is 1,502.1 meters long.

OOC: I'd say star destroyers are too generalised for my taste - A small fleet of specialist ships would perform better.

For instance, your hypergraviton blaster (WMG) is less effective because the shape means that in order to fully employ your armory, you need to fire broadsides. Also, it would be ineffective against most ships - If they're smaller, it's impossible to properly target, unless it's a battleship moving at top speed. If you are moving quickly, it's impossible to turn and fire. If they can move faster than you can turn, same thing.

On the other hand, a cruiser purpose built to use this gun and is otherwise relying on the fleet, would have more powerful turning thrusters and thus has a larger scope of ships to fire at.

Even if it's designated anti-capital ship, it's already a very large ship and is not paticularly well suited to taking on smaller capital ships/ships of the line.

The best sort of anti-capital ship would be some sort of frigate with a devastating weapon that can be fired at long range.


OOC: I used Babylon 5 universe style weapons. The weapons load-out has different weapons for use against different type capital ships. Also note, with the Gravimetric Engines, the only limitation on acceleration is mass, so she is more maneuverable than she looks.

GRAVIMETRIC ENGINE

http://www.b5tech.com/misctech/engines/gravimetric/gravengine.jpg

One of the key problems for spaceship construction, perhaps the key problem, is that of propulsion. The simple axiom, "Every action requires an equal, but opposite, reaction" has limited spaceship designers to traditional (but highly efficient) variations of rockets. While the efficiency might vary from species to species throughout known space, for the most part and with only a few rare exceptions, rockets in some form are the only means of propulsion available.

However, in the universe of Babylon 5 there are some exceptions to this rule: the Vorlons, the Shadows, the Minbari, Abbai, and to a lesser extent the Centauri, have all found a way to bypass the exclusive use of rocket based propulsion. Their ships accelerate and maneuver to a far greater degree than early Star Navy ships and the key to this superior performance is their ability to manipulate, on a macro as opposed to quantum level, the special characteristics of the Zero Point Field (ZPF, also known as a Lorentz Field).

ZPF have been explained as being a three dimensional representation of the dimensional objects known as superstrings, believed to be the key building blocks of both matter and energy in our universe. Zero Point Energy is essentially a 'leakage', on the quantum scale, of energy in process of being translated into this reality. Normally, this leakage involves the creation and dissipation of energy such that the result is an almost zero increase of energy. However, it is possible to use the potential of the ZPF as a power source of enormous implications. As Cal Tech physicist Richard Feynman once noted, the energy inherent in the space defined by a single coffee cup- anywhere in the universe- is enough to boil all of the oceans on planet Earth.

There are other implications of the ZPF fields and superstrings, in addition to that of an enormous power source. It has been discovered that inertia - the propensity of an object when at rest to stay at rest, and when in motion to in motion - is a manifestation of that objects electromagnetic interaction with the ZPF. Thus gravity and a lowering of inertia are both capable of being manipulated through the use of controlled electric interaction with the ZPF produced by superstrings.

By manipulating and "bending" these superstrings, advanced ships are able to create distortions in space/time that can be used to push and pull a ship in any given direction. It is via the manipulation of superstrings that allow ships constructed by the Minbari and, to a lesser extent the Centauri, to accelerate and outmaneuver those early vessels used by the Drazi, Narn, and the Empire. An important byproduct of this means of propulsion is that the effect of inertia is also negated, allowing ships to accelerate, stop and maneuver at velocities that would crush a person using conventional ion propulsion.

As for the Hyper-Graviton Blaster, it fires Gravitons (drawn from the Quantum/Gravitic Reactors) and the area around the shots of the weapon is ripe with gravitic tidal forces that can also cause damage, so even a near miss can still cause damage. The phasers are their to provide precision weapons, and the torpedoes can track their targets.

Also note, the Gravitic weapons, like the Hyper-Graviton Blaster, were originally fielded on the Warlord class dreadnaught.

As for your point about the crew, the Explorer class ship is 6,103 meters long and only has a crew of 350. The Nova class dreadnaught has 250 crew members, 8,000 troops, 36 fighters, and is 1,502.1 meters long.

Where are you getting your stats for these vessels? They are horrendously under-crewed.

I can 100% understand an onboard AI. However, in combat, you still need a respectable repair crew onboard, as well as people to watch for computer mistakes. Nothing can replace a human at that. (Seriously, would you trust windows98 with a life support system? And at the rate Microsoft is going, they're liable to be the makers of the Enterprise's software) When there is a resonance cascade scenario in Port frame 27B, you're going to want a maverick scientist there that can fix the problem.

It's not a matter of thinking your technology incapable, or the technology of whatever SciFi you're citing. If I wanted to, I could probably run one of my line ships with all of 5 people onboard. (1 pilot, 1 communications, 1 commander, 1 nav, 2 guys making food) I could even have the AI regulate power fluctuations, manage defensive shields, watch the sensors, and fire the weapons. Heck, the whole ship could run unmanned, so long as the AI had full run of it.

The problem is there WILL be broken parts, explosions in combat, damage, unintended events, etc. There is no physical way a crew of 250 people can handle a 2 kilometer ship in a full-scale battle. Too much room for parts breaking, battle damage that needs repairing, essential people getting killed off, etc.

Where are you getting your stats for these vessels? They are horrendously under-crewed.

I can 100% understand an onboard AI. However, in combat, you still need a respectable repair crew onboard, as well as people to watch for computer mistakes. Nothing can replace a human at that. (Seriously, would you trust windows98 with a life support system? And at the rate Microsoft is going, they're liable to be the makers of the Enterprise's software) When there is a resonance cascade scenario in Port frame 27B, you're going to want a maverick scientist there that can fix the problem.

It's not a matter of thinking your technology incapable, or the technology of whatever SciFi you're citing. If I wanted to, I could probably run one of my line ships with all of 5 people onboard. (1 pilot, 1 communications, 1 commander, 1 nav, 2 guys making food) I could even have the AI regulate power fluctuations, manage defensive shields, watch the sensors, and fire the weapons. Heck, the whole ship could run unmanned, so long as the AI had full run of it.

The problem is there WILL be broken parts, explosions in combat, damage, unintended events, etc. There is no physical way a crew of 250 people can handle a 2 kilometer ship in a full-scale battle. Too much room for parts breaking, battle damage that needs repairing, essential people getting killed off, etc.

The Explorer class is a research/construction vessel, forgot to mention that.

As for the stats, there is only one site that lists the crew sizes for Babylon 5 universe ships, that I know of, and that is B5tech.com.

As for the on-ship engineering crew, they number in the millions, you just need to look very close.

Standard Repair/Construction Nanite:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v649/JPKTrekker/Schematics/normal_Spider.jpg

As for that thing about bombers, I haven't designed any, yet.

OOC: I increased the crew of the Forschung class Star Destroyer to 500. (I remembered another class I have that is ~2 km long, the Titans class advanced heavy destroyers, have 480 crew). I also increased the crew of the 3 km long Super Star Destroyer that goes with the Forschung class to 800.

So the drive is inertialess and you've got unlimited energy.

I probably wouldn't actually accept that in a RP, seeing as how it means that you can just pile limitless weaponry and shielding onto the one ship.

Just as you said, you've ignored the key issue in starship construction - inertia. It is inertia which actually makes it necessary to make a compact ship.

Now, if you'd just had an inertialess drive, I might be fine with it. But if you also have unlimited fuel, it's a bit much. This would mean that your ship can constantly accelerate and never need to resupply or anything.

It's more a balancing issue now.

So the drive is inertialess and you've got unlimited energy.

I probably wouldn't actually accept that in a RP, seeing as how it means that you can just pile limitless weaponry and shielding onto the one ship.

Just as you said, you've ignored the key issue in starship construction - inertia. It is inertia which actually makes it necessary to make a compact ship.

Now, if you'd just had an inertialess drive, I might be fine with it. But if you also have unlimited fuel, it's a bit much. This would mean that your ship can constantly accelerate and never need to resupply or anything.

It's more a balancing issue now.

Who said anything about unlimited energy. The power still needs to be distributed and the singularity core (essintially what a Quantum/Gravitic reactor is) still needs to have matter fed into it, otherwise it will flicker out (thus each Quantum/Gravitic Reactor has 6 dedicated Fusion Reactors feeding it) and each Fusion Reactor needs fuel. Interstellar Hydrogen only goes so far.

As for the Gravimetric engines, the only limit on acceleration is mass. I can't have an inertialess engine as that would be breaking the laws of physics. Everything I have works with those laws. Theoritically, any ship can keep on accelerating towards the speed of light, but no engine can last that long. It would need refueling, parts would need replacing, and so on.

Also note, that if the big weapons are fired, the ship's capictors will be drained and she'll have to wait a little bit while they are recharged. This limits the number of the big energy weapons that can be fired, that is why I included the projectile weapons (which use less energy to fire than the beam weapons).

Also, the Gravimetric Engines are a type of gravity drive and use the the gravitons and anti-gravitons from the Quantum/Gravitic Reactors can either be shunted to the engines or the gravitic weapons. Thus, she can either use the other weapons and move, or use the gravitic weapons and sit still.

OOC: Any other constructive criticisim?

ooc: I'd still grumble about the crew, but meh. It's unlikely that we'll go against each other in an RP (GFFA and all), so I'm cool

Just, keep in mind the scale of this ship. If you've ever been on a big ww2 naval vessel like an Iowa or a South Dakota, there were well over a thousand crewmen on each. (2 for the South Dakota) A modern nimitz has a crew of over 3K. Automation and those delicate and expensive nanites can take care of a lot of the crew requirements, but this ship is ~63 times longer than a Nimitz. Lot more area to police.

::likes to grumble:: :D

ooc: I'd still grumble about the crew, but meh. It's unlikely that we'll go against each other in an RP (GFFA and all), so I'm cool

Just, keep in mind the scale of this ship. If you've ever been on a big ww2 naval vessel like an Iowa or a South Dakota, there were well over a thousand crewmen on each. (2 for the South Dakota) A modern nimitz has a crew of over 3K. Automation and those delicate and expensive nanites can take care of a lot of the crew requirements, but this ship is ~63 times longer than a Nimitz. Lot more area to police.

::likes to grumble:: :D


OOC: First, I just want to mention something I forgot to mention earlier. The Gravimetric Drive needs emitters. In this case, they are fin like structures (similar in shape to the aft fins on the Sharlin class war-cruiser) that are attached to the aft end (not visible in picture) of the Forschung class. Take those out and you effectively remove the the Gravimetric Drive as a factor.

On a side note, the Quantum/Gravitic reactor just doesn't provide me with power and engines, it also provides gravitons that can be used in the ship's artificial gravity system.

As for the crew, let me show you something.

The following image is a Nova-X class battle cruiser (Length: 1,717.3 meters; Crew: 650): http://www.b5tech.com/earthalliance/earthallianceshipsandvessels/earthcapships/novax/novax.jpg

Note the large drum-like section, that is the habitation section for this class of ship. As the Nova-X class is not equipped with a Quantum/Gravitic Reactor, this drum section is rotated to provide gravity and the rest of the ship is kept in a null-gravity type deal as their are no gravitons to diver to create artificial gravity.

If I didn't have any Quantum/Gravitic Reactors in the Forschung class, then I would need to have a similar rotating drum section as I currently have no other way of creating artificial gravity on my ships.

Small crews are a hold-over from days when ships like the Nova-X class were an everyday occurance. This was due to the number of people that could fit in the rotating habitation modules (which also include the bridge section) due to the fact that living in a weightless environment is not healthly in the long run. That is why, in ships like the Cotton class tender (with no rotational section or Quantum/Gravitic Reactor to provide some form of artificial gravity) the crews are rotated out at required intervals so their bones don't degrade due to the lack of a uni-directional gravitational force.

So the only habitation area is the crew module?

Then that begs the question: what if you get shot OUTSIDE the habitation module. Is there a way to get in there and survey damage?

And there's still a lot of ship to take care of there... but no matter, I think I have the problem solved!
::whips out uber1337calculator::
according to magical math (crew divided by legnth), you have ~.38 people per meter of ship in the NovaX. Your domestic SD has ~.25 people per meter. A standard SD mark1 (the yardstick of wankery in II :D)has ~44.

I think that's where I'm getting thrown. I'm used to SW #s, which have a larger average number of crew per meter. (I wish there was a way to get the cubic meters of these ships... twould be much more accurate that just legnth) those numbers of yours are probably more in tune with the SciFi base you're using.

Seaquest it's me.

a) what happened to your thread with me?

b) love the ships, are they going to be for sale?

c) are you still against slavery?

Seaquest it's me.

a) what happened to your thread with me?

b) love the ships, are they going to be for sale?

c) are you still against slavery?

A.) You dissapeared, thus the thread died out.

B.) Thanks. No, they won't be for sale (too much classified Imperial tech built in)

C.) Of course. Even my Soong-type (Star Trek) and Wayneright-type (Big O) androids are considered part of my population.

So the only habitation area is the crew module?

Then that begs the question: what if you get shot OUTSIDE the habitation module. Is there a way to get in there and survey damage?

And there's still a lot of ship to take care of there... but no matter, I think I have the problem solved!
::whips out uber1337calculator::
according to magical math (crew divided by legnth), you have ~.38 people per meter of ship in the NovaX. Your domestic SD has ~.25 people per meter. A standard SD mark1 (the yardstick of wankery in II :D)has ~44.

I think that's where I'm getting thrown. I'm used to SW #s, which have a larger average number of crew per meter. (I wish there was a way to get the cubic meters of these ships... twould be much more accurate that just legnth) those numbers of yours are probably more in tune with the SciFi base you're using.

Here is all the cannon info I could get on the Nova-X class:

Prior to the debut of the Omega class Destroyer the Nova class Dreadnought served as the Earth Alliance’s primary heavy warship. Built by Rocketdyne, the Nova class Dreadnought is believed to have entered service prior to and during the Dilgar War, sometime in the 2220s.* By the 2230s however, another starship made its debut in the Earthforce Star Navy, Karmatech’s Hyperion class Heavy Cruiser.*

Between the 2230s and 2240s Rocketdyne and Karmatech competed for lucrative design contracts from Earthforce. While Rocketdyne had a long-time history with the Earthforce Navy, Karmatech’s smaller Hyperion seemed more economical than the massive Novas. A debate on military theory ensued, not unlike what happened between Battleship and the Aircraft Carrier back in the early 20th century, with one camp supporting large mobile weapons platforms with huge fighter support, the other favoring lighter, faster warships with more advanced technology.*

Ultimately, the Earth Alliance chose to supercede the Nova with the newer, lighter, and cheaper Hyperion class Heavy Cruiser and plans were set in motion to phase out the Nova class Dreadnought. Not to be outdone, Rocketdyne Executives were able to convince several influential members of Earthforce and the Earth Alliance Senate to invest in a new, long-range patrol ship capable of deploying a large contingent of forces, in the hopes of winning back her military contracts from Karmatech.

In the early 2250s Rocketdyne began Projects Omega* to, “Build the last warship Earth would ever need.” To save on production costs and to facilitate the huge industry Rocketdyne had built up providing spare parts and support equipment for the existing fleet of Novas, Rocketdyne decided to modify several Novas and building upon their space frames to create a larger, more powerful and mission flexible craft.

Rocketdyne’s plan to modify existing Nova class Dreadnoughts was a plan not without precedent. During the 20th century, the U.S. Navy had enacted a similar plan, when it chose to build upon the World War Two Aircraft Carrier USS Midway (CV-41). The Midway, a ship comprised of antiquated technology, was retrofitted with state-of-the-art equipment and design features (like an angled flight deck and steam catapults). By testing these new features and equipment, the U.S. Navy lowered the cost of research and development and constructed a ship that would become the forerunner to the next breed of carriers, the Forestal class Carriers.* Rocketdyne decided to follow in suit.

In late 2244, Rocketdyne presented to the Earthforce Navy five new starships, the like the Earth Alliance had not seen before… the Nova-X class Battlecruiser. While obviously build upon the original Nova class Dreadnoughts, the new Nova-X starships had several distinct design differences that set them apart. First, and most important, Rocketdyne had succeeded in overcoming a huge design challenge and produced a warship with a rotating section, providing simulated gravity for the crew. This design feature was very important, as it would allow crews to conduct deep range patrols without the need of rotating crews in order to stave off the detrimental effects of zero gravity tours.

In addition to the rotating center section, Rocketdyne pulled a page out of Karmatech’s playbook and fitted the Nova-X Battlecruisers with smaller, lighter weapons, rather than the massive plasma cannons found on the original Novas. While the old plasma cannons had been intimidating, they had an extended recharge time and took too much power away from critical systems during combat. The new pulse cannons, on the other hand, were nearly as powerful, able to fire faster and with little delay for weapon recharge, and effectively provided fire coverage upon multiple, overlapping angles of attack.

Earthforce R&D and members of the Senate’s military oversight committee were impressed and decided to begin testing the Nova-X Battlecrusier’s combat effectiveness in July of 2245, at the Earthforce proving grounds near the Vega colony. Rocketdyne was poised to push Karmatech out of the limelight and, so confident were they in the Nova-X that they christened their new Starfury the Nova class Starfury.**

Unfortunately, the universe was conspiring against both Rocketdyne and the Earth Alliance. No sooner had the Nova-X fleet arrived in Vega, did word go out that an Earthforce exploratory mission lead by the Hyperion class Heavy Cruiser EAS Prometheus, had engaged in battle with the enigmatic Minbari. Less than a week after this first meeting, the Minbari struck, attacking the Vega colony.** The Minbari forces were overwhelming, in both technology and sheer numbers. Assembling a fleet to combat the Minbari, the Nova-X Battlecruisers were drafted into service, combat ready or not.

Within the first five second of the “Battle of Vega Colony”, four of the five Nova-X class Battlecruiser and an entire fleet division were annihilated, the last Nova-X striking Earthforce’s first and final blow of the battle when she rammed into a Minbari Cruiser, destroying both ships (click here for visual evidence).** And so began the Earth/Minbari war.

Upon the conclusion of the war, Earthforce’s brief love affair with Karmatech’s Hyperion class Heavy Cruiser was over. The public and military brass were convinced that a larger and more powerful warship was needed, and so Earthforce turned to Rocketdyne Industries to build the next breed of warship. Rocketdyne, having never abandoned the Omega Project, were ready to mass-produce new Omega class Destroyer in a few short months, beginning with the EAS Achilles in late 2248.**

While the Omega class Destroyer now dominates the Earthforce Navy, the ships and the crews that peoples these flying cities in space, owe their existence and prosperity to the Nova-X Battlecruisers and the sacrifice they made in defense of all mankind.

[*Speculation based on the Dilgar War and the aged of the Nova, as stated in the RPGs.
[*As stated in the RPGs and Earthforce Source Book.]
[*Speculation based on historical precedent.]
[*Based on Eathforce Soucebook and comments at the Lurkers Guide.]
[*Theory and information based on comments by Isoeph and Steve Fehr.]
[**Conjecture, given that the Nova Starfury came out at this same time, right before the Aurora.]
[**As stated in the Earthforce Source Book and seen in the TV movie "In the Beginning.]
[**As seen in "In the Beginning".]
[**Stated in the "Official Babylon 5 Time Line".]

The head section of the Nova-X is the combined weapons and hanger module, the aft end is the engine block, and you already know about the rotating habitation module in the middle.

Babylon 5 weapons, which are what I use for the most part, are quite potent. They were designed to deal with the standard thick armor also found in the Babylon 5 universe as energy shields were not common in cannon (I only added mine out of convience). These types of ships are designed to either destroy the opponent, or not come back (ramming as a last resort is a common cannon occurance). This is due to the fact Babylon 5 style weapons, mostly beams used to 'rake' the enemy ship, carry such high yeilds (for example, a G.O.D. class particle cannon in one of the G.O.D. defense satellites is quite able to pierce a Sharlin class war-cruiser (Length: 1,600 meters; Crew: 190; Troop: 8,000; Fighters: 15 (Length: 22 meters; Mass: 63 metric tons); Mass: 44.4 million metric tons) clean through with one shot).

Here are the stats (that are relavent to this discussion) I know of the Nova-X class:
length: 1,717.3 meters
mass: 43.2 million metric tons
crew: 650
troop: 18,000
fighter: 36
power: 4 Fusion Reactors
duration: 18 months

OOC: Any other constructive criticisim?

Any more?