NationStates Jolt Archive

ok, this will be quick for now. (not sure how much time i have) so the main idea is that we play in the amaricas around 1500A.D. save for one main thing. the spanish will not arive to ruin so many great nations. play as any native amarican people from the Apache, to the Inca, from the Lakota to the Mayans. come build an Empire with the Iroquois or destroy one with the Aztecs. what happens here is up to you. i for one want to start by joining the Lakota together


Claimed Tribes:

Lakota(Nebarri Prime)
Aztecs(The Cosmic Balance)
Tequesta(Philanchez)
Incas(Optischer)
Iroqouis(Starenell)
Cherokee(Skitsojd)
Haida(Buben)
Nakota(Atruria)
Mayans(Silifi)

Pleased to meet you again, Nebarri_prime.

I'll take the Aztecs, since I don't have to worry about the Spanish. But I have a question: is it just the Spanish who aren't coming, or are we isolated from the whole of Europe? And will we remain free of possible European colonialism forever?

More importantly, what is happening in the rest of the world? If we somehow manage to build our own ships and sail across the Atlantic or Pacific, will we find Renaissance Europe or T'ang China?

I think an interesting idea would be to assume that the rest of the world is in the Middle Ages. Why? Well, maybe the Mongols conquered Europe, all the way from Muscovy to Spain; and maybe they followed the Norman example and actually invaded England, too. If we assume no hurricane (or valiant coastal defence) to save the British Isles from conquest the way Japan was saved, then the Medieval Europe would have falled to the Scourge of God and his descendants in its entirety.

Of course, the Mongol Empire would have fallen apart in a generation; but then there would have been the Black Death to scour the European continent, leaving it on the brink of a new Dark Age. Without a strong Hungarian Kingdom or a strong Hapsburg dynasty in the Balkans, the Turks would have swept all the way to the Baltic and the Rhine.

The destruction of the infant Spanish and Portuguese Kingdoms and the defeat of the Moors (who would have been pushed into North Africa) would have left Spain, France, and England "free" - but much like Rennaissance Era Russia, as backwards post-Mongol "Khanates" (along with Sweden, the Baltic States, as well as Denmark and the Hanseatic League; the latter, however, would be hard pressed by the Turks along the Baltic coast, just as the French "Khanate" would be fighting a tough war along the Rhine and in Switzerland).

The Moors might have retaken Spain (or not), but the European mariner states would not exist, nor would Europeans possess the Moorish "lateen" sail, so crucial to their exploratory efforts.

So I figure Europe is centuries behind, leaving the Turks and Chinese as the most developed nations on Earth. The Chinese began to turn inward and eventually fell to the Manchus; the Osmanli Empire would probably also eventually succumb to internal decay, collapsing into a bunch of medieval Balkan states (at least in Europe) that would fight constant wars against each other. There would be no Renaissance, no da Vinci, no Bruno, no Galileo, no Copernicus, no Kepler, no Newton, no Leibnitz. When science eventually flowers again, it will be in Teheran, Cairo, or in Timbuktu ... but that will be many years from now.

The idea here is that - if we can develop far enough - we might be the ones to colonise Europe or the Pacific.

But this is your game, so I need a simple ruling: will the Old World cultures eventually put in an appearance, or can we colonise them, or is that whole part of the world simply off limits? What's going on there?

(BTW, I may employ a different puppet; but first I need to think about whether I actually want to do that.

Also, you know that without the Europeans, we won't have horses, right? The Lakota rely on dogs to pull their possessions around, as they have no other beast of burden they can use...)

I never intended for any Old world countries to come to the Americas, I like your idea of eventually colonizing Europe.

I know the Lakota don’t have horses. I just like the Lakota.

This is a great idea! I cant believe i never thought of it... Tequesta Indians of Broward, Miami-Dade, Biscayne Bay, and the Florida Keys. Me loves my hometown indians...

Excellent. Then, if you don’t mind, I think we should use my proposed alternate European history: the Mongols conquered all of Europe, and then the Turks conquered everything east of the Rhine and south of the Baltic coast. The parts of Europe they did not conquer are ruled by the descendants of the Mongols, from Gibraltar to Marseilles to Brest to Glasgow to Copenhagen to Riga to Kiev.

That way, we will never see Europeans (except for the odd fisherman off Cape Breton) until we are ready to sail to Europe ourselves. Chinese, OTOH, we may see – but only as explorers, never as conquerors, and only early in the game; they will visit less frequently as time goes by.

Of course, there’s the question of what social impulse could cause us to begin developing technology – but that’s something TBD by each of us.

we will use the alternate European history.

bump

Hello Nebarri Prime, Long time no talk.
If I may join, I would like to choose the Incas. They are fascinating to me.
Thank you.
Optischer

I would like to join as the Iroqouis.

both added

I'll take the Cherokee of Georgia and South Carolina.
Ahhh.... My Heritage is great.

Why not set the RP in the 17 or 1800's, and change history a bit so that the Europeans never went to the New World for some reason, that way the tribes/empires there werent destroyed and (possibly) advanced to a similar point as the Europeans, having gunpowder and so forth.
Of course, it might not be your style, but eh :P

EDIT:
It would also make the various native American tribes NOT united in some sort of Empire much easier to RP, since you wouldnt have vauge coalitions, but actual nations with fairly decent technology.

Skitsojd: added

BMG: in the 1800s without Europe no native amaricans would have Gunpowder. in 1500 they didn't even use Metal in many areas. in fact the only Metal users of the time i know of where the Incans (could be forgeting some others but not sure) as for your comment about not having empires, i'm not sure what you mean about that.

Thats why I suggest alt-histing things a bit and speeding up the development of the Americas. I beleive the Aztecs and Mayans, as well as a few Native American tribes, used metal in limited amounts, the Eskimoes and Northern tribes had some fairly good silverworkers.
Anyway, since most of the NA's aside from the Aztecs, Incans and Mayans were either fairly disasociated or formed into loose confederations, you cant really count them as Empires, as they had no single ruling authority except in a few cases.

If possible, I'd like to take the Sioux native americans

I too have an intrest in this RP, put me in as The Haida, from Haida Gwaii.

So under the Alt Euro History.... we the Native Tribes of the Americas.... get guns and the such? Sweet.

So under the Alt Euro History.... we the Native Tribes of the Americas.... get guns and the such? Sweet.I would say no, not in 1500. But I intend to RP a Chinese expedition to the Americas (which some historians believe actually happened right around 1500). This expedition will meet some of our people, and we will learn about fireworks from them. I promise not to use guns before everybody has a chance to get them (which will be after several decades of diffusion).

Of course, that doesn't give us horses - but that's quite alright by me (for now).

Now if I can only lay my hands on the lateen sail...

I could create a Forum for this RP.
Well I or someone else could.
Would make it alot easier to RP it there then here in my opinion.

If possible, I'd like to take the Sioux native americans

well, there are three types. the Lakota, Dakota, and Nakota. i have the Lakota my self. so please pick from the Nakota or Dakota.

BMG: who said they are Empires yet. i still have to RP the Lakota uniting together.

Buben: added

I could create a Forum for this RP.
Well I or someone else could.
Would make it alot easier to RP it there then here in my opinion.

go ahead and make the forum. but we will only RP it on the forum if the rest of the members want to.

bump

Ack, my bad. I didn't realize the Lakota were taken, then I saw the Iroquois taken and sorta assumed, since the Iroquois contained 5 or 6 (don't remember the exact number) different tribes that I could play the entire Sioux, but I'll take the Nakota, if its alright.

mostly i let the Iroquois be one group because at about this time they became joined in the Iroquois League, the Sioux never really got together and the Lakota alone have more people then all the Iroquois, or at least so says my info.

oh, and added

Ah, makes sense, well thanks

should I start compiling a Nakota thread then?

compile a Nakota thread now if you want. i am going to bed now in case you happen to have any more questions

Bump....

I'm interested. I'd like to play the Mayas.

I would say no, not in 1500. But I intend to RP a Chinese expedition to the Americas (which some historians believe actually happened right around 1500). This expedition will meet some of our people, and we will learn about fireworks from them. I promise not to use guns before everybody has a chance to get them (which will be after several decades of diffusion).

Of course, that doesn't give us horses - but that's quite alright by me (for now).

Now if I can only lay my hands on the lateen sail...
It actually happened in 1497. Although they never reched the Americas and turned back i do believe they reached some pacific islands. Some historians believe that if the expedition had had better provisions and more ships they would have been able to colonize the west coast.(if they wanted to)

I'm interested. I'd like to play the Mayas.

added

It actually happened in 1497. Although they never reched the Americas and turned back i do believe they reached some pacific islands. Some historians believe that if the expedition had had better provisions and more ships they would have been able to colonize the west coast.(if they wanted to)There is some disagreement as to whether they made it or not; I am going to assume that they did and made contact with my people (the reports of ships arriving on the Pacific coast in 1497 [I'll double check the date] place them off Southern California and the Baja; I'll assume the also went further south along the coast, at least to Magdelena Bay [which obviously didn't have that name at the time]).

If the Chinese arrive in 1497, then that makes them a threat to our empires like the Europeans were. I say keep them in the pacific.

Also, there were horses in America. We'd just have to domesticate them

If the Chinese arrive in 1497, then that makes them a threat to our empires like the Europeans were. I say keep them in the pacific.

Also, there were horses in America. We'd just have to domesticate them

nope. i know none of the South amarican people used horses and this is copied from a sight (don't have a link though)

--------------------------------------------------------------------
As the horse evolved, it first appeared on the grass lands of the North American continent. But for reasons that scientists still don’t understand, horses began wandering off North America about 10 million years ago. They began their journey across the Bering Straits (west of Alaska) into Asia, and continued across the Iranian Plateau of the Middle East and as far as Europe and northern Africa. By about 10 thousand years ago, no more horses remained on the North American continent.

The reintroduction of the horses into the Americas began in 1519 when Cortez came from Spain. As more and more settlers from Spain and other European countries came, they brought horses with them and returned these animals to their native land after a 10,000-year journey around the world.
-------------------------------------------------------------------

so, no horses for the americas. as for the chinese. at this time they where not big on conquest, and i'm not sure about things like small pox.

...as for the chinese. at this time they where not big on conquest, and i'm not sure about things like small pox.China was the most advanced civilisation in the world at this time, but it was turning inward and beginning to fall apart. This represents a good way for us to get the technology that otherwise would likely have never been developed by the original inhabitants of this hemisphere.

As for smallpox, we can presume that superior hygiene and medicine, combined with the Chinese knowledge of innoculation (a technique developed by the Turks) keeps the disease from showing up in the New World (although we'll have to face it when we go to colonise the Old World).

I made a mistake on the date, they actually did it in 1421...

i will let your two decide if we have Chinese come or not. i for one want to make sure this gets started before people lose intrest. and get more people into it. after that who wants the RP to be on this sight or on something like invisionfree

I think that we should make the Chinese come, but since it's an alt hist, maybe we can delay them for a couple of years and get on our feet, then make them come some time, relatively later than they were said to have come.

then again, thats just my opinion...

bump