NationStates Jolt Archive

[OOC: This thread is open, but the conflict it's attached to (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=454259) isn't. The only thing anyone else can really reply to this thread for would be government/citizens reactions, though.We have a rule that a few people can RP convoys going to the Saint Fedski but cannot commit major military forces (outside that convoy) to the RP unless the convoy is attacked. Also, you people who have been involved in this RP from before, let's keep all major OOC chatter to the OOC thread we're already using for the conflict, k?]
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On SRN, McKagan's largest news network, Lou Bryant, an extreme liberal reporter begins his show.

"Our usual programming is agressive towards the trade policies of other nations, military spending, or the Christain Right Wing that has been trying to reorganize after several paid hits against their leadership. However, tonight we turn our attention towards the war crimes going on in the former state of Torontia. In this special presentation, we are broadcasting a direct message to the international community."

The screen goes dark, then comes back on.
--
First they went through an opressive dictatorship, and now it appears they are pawns in a much larger scheme. The people of Torontia have been proven as an intelligent group, only they lack the infrastructure to support a democratic society.

The leaders of Yallak, Saint Fedski, and Amestria ALL claim to be in Torontia on humanitarian missions to help rebuild the nation. Yet it has been months since the downfall of the nation and you are still there. Amestria and Yallak especially have claimed to be here on simple rebuilding missions, yet has over ONE MILLION ARMED TROOPS in the nation. Furthermore, we cannot blame Saint Fedski for not being able to conduct their mission. They are not being allowed to ship their own supply systems into the nation by a MASSIVE, THOUSAND SHIP BLOCKADE of YALLAKIAN vessels off the coast.

We ask, why is this needed to rebuild a nation? In the months the nation has been occupied, only a few insurgent attacks have taken place. Doing nothing more than planting a few IED's or taking shots at UAV's, they have done VERY little in the means of conventional fighting.

Troops on the ground cannot fight a virus they cannot see. They are useless in that war. We ask; why has Amestria chosen not to pull its massive army out of the nation to keep it from infection? What are they trying to hold? Our reporters have came across information that shows a good deal of proof towards the theory that LACK of RECONSTRUCTION on the Amestrians part led to this flu outbreak.

Think about it: How do MASSES of people catch the flu at one time? How close do these people have to be living to each other to simply ALL get sick at once? It is as if the Amestrians have put military ideas ahead of civil ones. Are the Torontian people living in such POOR conditions due to the lack of Amestrian reconstruction that they are all suffering from easily cureable virus strains? We ask, how does a nation that has been "rebuilt" as the Amestrians claim fall sick to an easily treatable disease? Perhaps the Amestrians relocated the Torontian people to concentration camps while the Amestrian soldiers live in the houses of the Torontian people?

We ask, how is this outbreak ONLY contained to the Amestrian zone of the nation? Saint Fedski, who has SIGNIFICANTLY less troops in the nation, has reported no massive outbreaks of flu.

It is my conclusion that because of the poor conditions in the Amestrian zone have led to the Amestrians fearing the Saint Fedskians could begin to pull out. This, leaving an economically powerful nation beside their own poverty stricken one, would be a major embarrassment and defeat to Amestrian diplomacy. By allowing a much smaller nation to do a common job better than them, the Amestrians are fearful that they will be questioned and eventually face two choices in Torontia: Pull out, or admit to their own imperialistic goals. Because of this, they seak to undermine the efforts of the Saint Fedskians.

I challenge the Amestrians to send ANY official to SRN Headquarters here in New Miami, McKagan for a LIVE, INTERNATIONALLY BROADCAST debate. If you think you can even begin to disprove my claims, you are free to come do it.


Disclaimer: The opinions broadcast in this report may or may not be the opinions of SRN, the McKagan Government, military, or any other persons.
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To international viewers, the SRN logo flashes across the screen before going to the prearranged programming.

In New Miami, Lou Bryant walks off the stage of the show, up a flight of stairs, and to the upper-floor Executive meeting room of SRN. Inside the room a group of four men with dark clothing walked to him.

"Your report was adequate, the divison will be most happy. We will be back in a few days with more offers. Just to add, your 100 million USD has been transfered... We will be on the 78th watching communications, ok?"

Official Imperial Transmission
From: The High Council of Yallak

The Imperial government finds this broadcast to be ridiculous at best. As such I will waste little time acknowledging its existence – it is suffice to say that even the most simple of ‘facts’ are wrong.

Firstly, Yallak has never claimed to be in Torontia to rebuild the nation. We came to end the hostilities and even now that is being accomplished, unfortunately through war but you can thank the Saint Fdskians lack of co-operation and blatant insults to the other powers for that road of action.

Secondly, Saint Fedski was the first to initiate a blockade against the Amestrian Port Angeles. The Imperial blockade was a response to that.

Thirdly, the insurgent attacks have been major, from snipers to open raids on convoys with anti-tank weapons. That is why soldiers are needed.

And finally for the flu, the lack of co-operation between the Amestrian zone and the Saint Fredskian zone stops transmission of said virus across the closed borders into the Saint Fedski zone.

If Lou Bryant or the SRN have any more lies they wish to spread then I will be happy to reveal the untruths behind such accusations.

Lord Sollonaal, Supreme Magistrate of Yallak.

From: Lou Bryant
To: The High Council of Yallak

Firstly, Yallak has never claimed to be in Torontia to rebuild the nation. We came to end the hostilities and even now that is being accomplished, unfortunately through war but you can thank the Saint Fdskians lack of co-operation and blatant insults to the other powers for that road of action.

It makes me sick that you have put yourself on such a level and state of mind that you are so "better" than everyone that you would risk world war over what you DEEM "insults." I do not know how free speech is in your nation, but most people have the ability to say what they want. It's time for the Yallakian government to get its head out of its ass and wake up to the fact that not everyone loves them. Your intelligence-insulting diplomacy would make nearly anyone tell you, rightfully, to fuck off.

Secondly, Saint Fedski was the first to initiate a blockade against the Amestrian Port Angeles. The Imperial blockade was a response to that.

I find it down right disturbing that a mighty naval fleet tasked with ending hostilties was scared into action by only a few ships from a much smaller nation. It is this reporters opinion that you should invest in better training for your Captains so that they can tell the difference in a destroyer and a super dreadnaught. As for you giving yourself the right to blockade a sovereign nation; it would probably help if you stop being a dick, too.

Thirdly, the insurgent attacks have been major, from snipers to open raids on convoys with anti-tank weapons. That is why soldiers are needed.

Would you mind telling me how many soldiers have died as a result of these attacks? In great insurgent effort against overwhelming odds, it's been under 500, I think. Perhaps your paranoia complex has gotten to you, but that's not very bad. It's probably very disheartning to your allied troops when several hundred thousand soldiers are needed to quell an insurgency in a place as big as British Columbia. Sir, that is pathetic.

And finally for the flu, the lack of co-operation between the Amestrian zone and the Saint Fredskian zone stops transmission of said virus across the closed borders into the Saint Fedski zone.

Then perhaps the Amestrians infected the populace to keep the Saint Fedskians out, since the first the the Amestrians openly fought in Torontia a small group of raiders killed a company sized unit. It is my opinion that all nations currently occupying Torontia should invest in better training and smarter management.
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[OOC: Incase a mod or someone sees this, I just thought it would be funny to see someone openly insult the Yallakians in such a manner. Don't take it as flaming or anything.]

Message from the Amestrian Government to the SRN Network

The Amestrian Government accepts the challenge put forth by Mr. Bryant. Two officials will be dispatched to take part in the debate, the Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs Jean Lescot and the Vice Deputy Minister of Defense, Sara Liscel. They shall refute Mr. Bryant as soon as V.D.M. Liscel gets back from unpaid vacation.

From: SRN Executive Transportation Department
To: Amestrian Government

Please fly to corporate terminal 21 at New Miami International Airport. (NMIA)

Official Imperial Transmission
From: The High Council of Yallak

It makes me sick that you have put yourself on such a level and state of mind that you are so "better" than everyone that you would risk world war over what you DEEM "insults." I do not know how free speech is in your nation, but most people have the ability to say what they want. It's time for the Yallakian government to get its head out of its ass and wake up to the fact that not everyone loves them. Your intelligence-insulting diplomacy would make nearly anyone tell you, rightfully, to fuck off.

And it highly amuses me that you have swayed so far from the topic when the truth came to light. I am even more amused that you quote the word ‘better’. Who are you quoting – the Imperial government has never said that.
I am sure that whatever nation you come from, telling someone to fuck off is an insult. Yallakians have as much free speech as any other democratic nation – and we are well aware that not everyone loves us nor do we expect them too.
And if you are insulted by diplomacy then you are indeed the arrogant one, sir.

I find it down right disturbing that a mighty naval fleet tasked with ending hostilties was scared into action by only a few ships from a much smaller nation. It is this reporters opinion that you should invest in better training for your Captains so that they can tell the difference in a destroyer and a super dreadnaught. As for you giving yourself the right to blockade a sovereign nation; it would probably help if you stop being a dick, too.

Scared. I think not. The naval blockade of Saint Fedski ‘territory’ was a reprisal for their hostile actions. If we feared the few ships of a smaller nation – we wouldn’t still be in Torontia.
But ah, you yet again prove you know not what you talk of. Imperial Captains spend their lives in training and can most definitely tell the differences between ship classes.
Torontia is not a sovereign nation – it has no government and no control over its own affairs. That is what Yallak is there to remedy.

Would you mind telling me how many soldiers have died as a result of these attacks? In great insurgent effort against overwhelming odds, it's been under 500, I think. Perhaps your paranoia complex has gotten to you, but that's not very bad. It's probably very disheartning to your allied troops when several hundred thousand soldiers are needed to quell an insurgency in a place as big as British Columbia. Sir, that is pathetic.

In keeping with the revealing of complete truth I will tell you – I have no idea. No Imperial soldiers have died in Torontia yet. You would ave to ask Amestria to know their casualties.
Disheartening? No. We do not believe in half measures. Besides, Yallak is only holding areas against the insurgents, while Amestria actively hunts them down.

Then perhaps the Amestrians infected the populace to keep the Saint Fedskians out, since the first the the Amestrians openly fought in Torontia a small group of raiders killed a company sized unit. It is my opinion that all nations currently occupying Torontia should invest in better training and smarter management.

Perhaps “the the” Amestrians didn’t release the virus – Saint Fedksi is keeping themselves out of any co-operative efforts in Torontia on their own accord.
We know nothing of how Amestria trains their soldiers, but Yallak already has great training and management – that is why no Imperial soldiers have yet died, or been infected with any viruses.

Lord Sollonaal, Supreme Magistrate of Yallak

Neo was in his private quarters, all alone, where nobody would here him talking to himself as he watched television. "Pfft. While this presentation does contain facts to back his views up, it is excessively biased and pseudo-propagandistic. Now where Kenix Kil when you need him to slice through deceit with absolute factuality, independent of one-sidedness and with entertaining sarcasm?"
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TO: Government of the Infinite Empire of Yallak
FROM: All Ministers in the Neo Administration
SUBJECT: An Open Letter to the Infinite Empire's Government Regarding the Media

It seems that the wave of discontent has finally been picked up by an influential, radical left-wing icon and allowed the SRN to broadcast his presentation.

Free press, in Neo's opinion, is no better than a state-controlled one. "As the press is free, it possesses the ability to, like a state-controlled press, to choose what not to show and what can be publish." Neo often said.

You'd better come up with a way to prove that the McKaganese political critic is wrong without him making you look like you contradict yourself over and over again dozens of times, and fast. Political pressure now upon you, and if you don't outwit him fast enough, the walls are going to come slamming upon you with excruciating pain, and the agony will still be ringing in your bones long after the Torontian incident.

Take care.

Signed,
The Neo Administration...
(list goes on to mention all the heads of respective branches)

Encoded Imperial Transmission
To: The Ministers of the Neo Administration
From: The High Council of Yallak

Fear not. This ‘reporter’ uses lies and half-truths to make an invalid point. He will trip himself up before he could hope to cause a contradiction in my replies.

Nonetheless we will take care.

Lord Sollonaal, Supreme Magistrate of Yallak

From: Lou Bryant

And it highly amuses me that you have swayed so far from the topic when the truth came to light. I am even more amused that you quote the word ‘better’. Who are you quoting – the Imperial government has never said that.
I am sure that whatever nation you come from, telling someone to fuck off is an insult. Yallakians have as much free speech as any other democratic nation – and we are well aware that not everyone loves us nor do we expect them too.
And if you are insulted by diplomacy then you are indeed the arrogant one, sir.

And Adolf Hitler never said "I am a genocidal madman" either, did he?

Scared. I think not. The naval blockade of Saint Fedski ‘territory’ was a reprisal for their hostile actions. If we feared the few ships of a smaller nation – we wouldn’t still be in Torontia.
But ah, you yet again prove you know not what you talk of. Imperial Captains spend their lives in training and can most definitely tell the differences between ship classes.
Torontia is not a sovereign nation – it has no government and no control over its own affairs. That is what Yallak is there to remedy.

I thought you said "we came to end the hostilities?" Through my sources, I know there hasn't been a major terrorist attack in WEEKS if not MONTHS. There is a difference in ending hostilities (which has been done,) and giving a nation control over its own affairs. Of course, it might be hard for them to take over their own affairs when you're there to do that for them.

In keeping with the revealing of complete truth I will tell you – I have no idea. No Imperial soldiers have died in Torontia yet. You would ave to ask Amestria to know their casualties.
Disheartening? No. We do not believe in half measures. Besides, Yallak is only holding areas against the insurgents, while Amestria actively hunts them down.

Or perhaps you do not believe in leaving unclaimed land laying around?


Perhaps “the the” Amestrians didn’t release the virus – Saint Fedksi is keeping themselves out of any co-operative efforts in Torontia on their own accord.
We know nothing of how Amestria trains their soldiers, but Yallak already has great training and management – that is why no Imperial soldiers have yet died, or been infected with any viruses.

Or maybe Saint Fedski has stayed out of co-operative efforts because Amestria wants to keep those Saint Fedskian soldiers as unattentive towards Amestria as possible? Considering Saint Fedski has done a much better job at stopping an insurgency, i'd say their military is better overall.

McKaganese

[OOC: It's just McKagan.]

OOC: Sorry about that. Sounds fancier though.

To: Lou Bryant
From: The High Council of Yallak

And Adolf Hitler never said "I am a genocidal madman" either, did he?

You point? The Yallakian soldiers in Torontia have no killed any civilians.

I thought you said "we came to end the hostilities?" Through my sources, I know there hasn't been a major terrorist attack in WEEKS if not MONTHS. There is a difference in ending hostilities (which has been done,) and giving a nation control over its own affairs. Of course, it might be hard for them to take over their own affairs when you're there to do that for them.

That is exactly why we are there. At that was almost achieved – right up until Saint Fedski blockaded the Amestrian port. We also came though to enforce co-operation between the present parties to quickly and efficiently establish a new Torontian government. That too however has been delayed by Saint Feddski.
Make no mistake, once peace reigns in Torontia, every single Imperial ship and soldiers will be heading home within hours.

Or perhaps you do not believe in leaving unclaimed land laying around?

Perhaps not. Yallak covers over thirty one million square kilometers and has not expanded in nine hundred years. No, we do not need, nor desire, more land.

Or maybe Saint Fedski has stayed out of co-operative efforts because Amestria wants to keep those Saint Fedskian soldiers as unattentive towards Amestria as possible? Considering Saint Fedski has done a much better job at stopping an insurgency, i'd say their military is better overall.

They haven’t done a much better job, they haven’t had too. The insurgency rose in BC, where McKagan forces destroyed the area they had occupied. That area is now run by Amestria. Saint Fedski hides away in Seattle, uncooperative with Amestrian efforts. Not only have they not done a better job, they haven’t helped Amestria. If it was truly their purpose to help the Torontian people, why then do they allow these terrorists to run around killing and being killed?

Lord Sollonaal, Supreme Magistrate of Yallak

From: Lou Bryant
To: The High Council of Yallak

You point? The Yallakian soldiers in Torontia have no killed any civilians.

Really?

*insert satellite images of missiles leaving the Yallak fleet towards Torontia*
*insert video taken by DART teams of missiles destroying civilian villages*
*insert video of aftermath of Yallak attack on Seattle Airport*

SRN Satellites have watched the Torontian theatre for some time. The videos were sent to us by a Torontian civilian who wanted to leak the REAL story of Torontia to a news agency. From those attacks, it's an estimate of THOUSANDS of dead Torontians.

Mind telling the international community WHY you're lying?

If you're lying about this, just what ELSE are you lying about?

That is exactly why we are there. At that was almost achieved – right up until Saint Fedski blockaded the Amestrian port. We also came though to enforce co-operation between the present parties to quickly and efficiently establish a new Torontian government. That too however has been delayed by Saint Feddski.
Make no mistake, once peace reigns in Torontia, every single Imperial ship and soldiers will be heading home within hours.


Do you mind stating how many ships blockaded the port? Then mind telling us how many ships you have off the coast of Torontia? Do you mind telling us slight technical specs on vessels of the same class serving in Torontia compared to those of the inferior-to-all Arleigh Burke class vessels used by the Saint Fedskian Navy? Can you really expect for us to believe that those ships could stop anything? No, I believe it is plain for all to see that you simply used a small incursion (which I am NOT saying was right, only not a threat) as an excuse to go to war in an attempt to gain Saint Fedskian held areas of Torontia.

Perhaps not. Yallak covers over thirty one million square kilometers and has not expanded in nine hundred years. No, we do not need, nor desire, more land.

Then perhaps I should change my previous point. You don't like to let chances to influence the construction of a small nations new government, correct? You're turning the Torontian government into a puppet of your own. You won't NEED to keep troops there to control the nation. A few well placed families and you've got control of that nation and its resources until that government falls. And how much do you wish to bet that if the Torontian government fell after the Yallakians left, you'd be back again? What if an election got to close for your liking? Would JDAM's magically fall from the sky? Your approach is quiet the tactful one, sir, but it's easy to see through your mask of lies. If the Amestrian/Yallakian alliance wanted to provide a completely democratic government, why not allow the international community to move in and run the elections? You only need to gain influence n the nation (the WHOLE nation, thus why you see Saint Fedski as such a problem) to set up your puppet government, and never have to worry about giving up control.

They haven’t done a much better job, they haven’t had too. The insurgency rose in BC, where McKagan forces destroyed the area they had occupied. That area is now run by Amestria. Saint Fedski hides away in Seattle, uncooperative with Amestrian efforts. Not only have they not done a better job, they haven’t helped Amestria. If it was truly their purpose to help the Torontian people, why then do they allow these terrorists to run around killing and being killed?

The insurgency rose in BC because the Amestrians let their focus on the area, humanitarian and military both, slip, to watch Saint Fedskian forces. While the Amestrians, in their paranoia-complex worried about an SF invasion, the Saint Fedskians worried not about Amestria. Saint Fedski hasn't lied about what they are in the theatre to do. That's why they didn't passively build up military forces in the area, because they REALLY thought that all that was going on in Torontia was the rebuilding of a nation. Amestria struck at this false sense of security, while systematically allowing their ACTUAL security to drop. Also, do you really think Amestria would allow Saint Fedski soldiers into BC to hunt for insurgents? If you really believe that, then request to Amestria that they make it happen.

This is Andrea Brooks, reporting live from our studio in Seattle, Torontia. I am joined by Governor Scott McKelvie, Joe Johnson, mayor of Seattle, and Jasmine Jones, the Saint Fedskian political liaison official in Torontia.

Having watched the newscasts from around the world, SFBC has decided to chip in it's two or three cents. This special edition of the Foreign Affairs hour is dedicated completely to the Conflict in Torontia. We'll begin with Governor McKelvie. Welcome to the show Governor.

"Thank you for having me Ms. Jones, it is an honour to be allowed to speak here."

Governor, since taking over from Sean Keane a little over a month ago, you have stuggled to increase trade with Torontia. How does the current situation jeopardize all that you have worked for?

"Yes, I have worked hard to increase trade with the new Torontia. That has been the primary goal of this government. Because Saint Fedski is the protecting power, they have held a monopoly on the trade, which even though helps the economy in the short run, will lead to a long term economic disaster. We have worked hard to increase trade with foreign nations aside from Saint Fedski. With the current situation, nations are refusing to trade with us because they are unwilling to send escorts to protect their trade with Torontia. You must remember that Torontia is no longer a staple trading partner with most nations, instead we are reestablishing relations. Nations no longer see it as necessary to risk the safety of the citizens to trade with a reborn nation and are therefore less willing to trade while a conflict is on going. I must use this time to draw attention to the hipocracy of Amestria and Yallak, while they claim to be helping the Torontian people, they are actually hurting them."

Well said Governor. Mr. Johnson, Seattle has been through artillery barrages, terrorist strikes, harbour fires, riots, strikes, and even a war. Where would a large scale conflict in Torontia lead Seattle?

"Violence is nothing new to Seattle, it has been a fact of life since the New Order came to power. However, instead of facing government oppression, we face oppression from other governments who have repeatedly stated that our safety is their main concern. If our safety is their main concern, why do they attack us and threaten our livelihood? Their blockades, missile strikes, threats and other hostile actions have come close to completely ruining all that has been accomplished since the New Order collapsed. If this conflict doesn't end soon, the reluctantly content citizens may stage an uprising with the potential of completely destablizing everything our protectors in Saint Fedski have invested in. You can bet, rest assured, that if the Saint Fedski influence is wiped out, they will take everything they did with them, causing us even more problems as the economy will crumble, healthcare will fail and all the infastructure will begin to degrade to such a point that we will be living like animals."

Thank you for your comment Mr. Johnson. Two major Torontia political officials share the same view. Let's see what the official response of the Saint Fedskian Government says. Joining us live from an undisclosed military facility is Jasmin Jones. Jasmin, welcome to the show.

"Thank you Ms. Brooks. My staff and I have been paying close attention to the coverage of events in Torontia by the foreign media and we have found numerous errors, omissions and outright lies. I will use my time to discuss these inaccuracies. The most outrageous statement was made by the High Council of Yallak. They often portray Saint Fedski as the initiator of hostilites because of a small convoy of ten to fifteen cargo ships a destroyer and two frigates. The High Council repeatedly suggests that this convoy was a blockade of the Amestrian port of Port Angeles, when infact it was at the otherside of the strait. The High Council also suggests that their blockade was in return for our "blockade" when infact they were already blockading Torontia before we even issued a phantom order to blockade Port Angeles. The next topic I'd like to talk about is civilian casualties. Yallak and Amestria have deliberatly targeted civilian populations in their aggressive attacks. Amestria attacked the city of Spokane with a population in the millions, for no reason. There were very few Commonwealth soldiers there, and those that were, were involved in intense combat with supporters of the Red Tide Occupation. Secondly, Yallak and Amestria both targeted large airports only in use by civilian aircraft resulting in the loss of thousands of innocent Torontians and foreign citizens. This unprovoked attack either proves that the intelligence communities of Amestria and Yallak are totally useless, or that they are out solely to conquer all of Torontia for their own use. Whichever it may be, the Commonwealth of Saint Fedski is prepared to defend this nation to the end, unless the governments of Amestria and Yallak are willing to reestablish a cease fire and negotiate a peaceful settlement. Until then, the armies of the Republic of New McFarland, the Republic of North Saint Clair, and Torontia will continue to defend this great nation from the imperialist actions of Yallak and Amestria."

Well said Ms. Jones. That is all the time we have for this edition of Foreign Affairs Hours. Thank you for tuning in. On the next edition, the same speakers will return to discuss current events in Torontia, possible outcomes and predictions of the future. I am Andrea Brooks in Seattle, good night.

To: Lou Bryant
From: The High Council of Yallak

Really?

*insert satellite images of missiles leaving the Yallak fleet towards Torontia*
*insert video taken by DART teams of missiles destroying civilian villages*
*insert video of aftermath of Yallak attack on Seattle Airport*

SRN Satellites have watched the Torontian theatre for some time. The videos were sent to us by a Torontian civilian who wanted to leak the REAL story of Torontia to a news agency. From those attacks, it's an estimate of THOUSANDS of dead Torontians.

Mind telling the international community WHY you're lying?

If you're lying about this, just what ELSE are you lying about?

Terrorists - their supporters and their bases of operations. Civilians were not specifically targeted. Though I will admit that villages in those remote regions are not all mapped and civilian deaths were probable. That attack however proves my entire point seeing how it brought about an end to the insurgent attacks – one of Yallak’s main goals.

Do you mind stating how many ships blockaded the port? Then mind telling us how many ships you have off the coast of Torontia? Do you mind telling us slight technical specs on vessels of the same class serving in Torontia compared to those of the inferior-to-all Arleigh Burke class vessels used by the Saint Fedskian Navy? Can you really expect for us to believe that those ships could stop anything? No, I believe it is plain for all to see that you simply used a small incursion (which I am NOT saying was right, only not a threat) as an excuse to go to war in an attempt to gain Saint Fedskian held areas of Torontia.

Not at all. There were few ships blockading port Angeles, perhaps five to ten. Yallak has one thousand ship of the coast of Torontia.
If when asking for “slight technical specs on vessels of the same ‘class’” you want to know who’s ships are more powerful, armoured or heavily armed, then the answer is Yallak’s.
However, your assumptions are wrong. Whether or not they could stop anything is beside the point – a blockade is a blockade – and we were lenient enough to give two warnings before firing on the Saint Fedskian vessels. They had ample chance to withdraw their ships. And the difference in ship classes is irrelevant – the blockade on Torontia by the Imperial fleet never restricted Saint Fedskian vessels, or their allies, before their hostile actions.

Then perhaps I should change my previous point. You don't like to let chances to influence the construction of a small nations new government, correct? You're turning the Torontian government into a puppet of your own. You won't NEED to keep troops there to control the nation. A few well placed families and you've got control of that nation and its resources until that government falls. And how much do you wish to bet that if the Torontian government fell after the Yallakians left, you'd be back again? What if an election got to close for your liking? Would JDAM's magically fall from the sky? Your approach is quiet the tactful one, sir, but it's easy to see through your mask of lies. If the Amestrian/Yallakian alliance wanted to provide a completely democratic government, why not allow the international community to move in and run the elections? You only need to gain influence n the nation (the WHOLE nation, thus why you see Saint Fedski as such a problem) to set up your puppet government, and never have to worry about giving up control.

Ah more amusement!
Understand this, sir, Yallak does not want or need Torontia. The situation as it stands is more of a requirement than our choice. You see, when we left Torontia after the international community moved in to start rebuilding we promised to remove anyone who wouldn’t co-operate with the other powers (to prevent takeovers and land grabs by other nations). Before the fleet had even returned to Yallak, Amestria called on us to fulfill our promise and end the hostilities between Amestria/Saint Fedski and the imperialist nations like Red Tide.
We are in no way responsible for the recreation of any government in Torontia, other than to make sure someone set one up. There will be no puppets of Yallak installed; there will be no bombing of election candidates. Once this task is done, and the nation is in peace we will leave. What happens after that will be the Torontian governments concern, not ours.

The insurgency rose in BC because the Amestrians let their focus on the area, humanitarian and military both, slip, to watch Saint Fedskian forces. While the Amestrians, in their paranoia-complex worried about an SF invasion, the Saint Fedskians worried not about Amestria. Saint Fedski hasn't lied about what they are in the theatre to do. That's why they didn't passively build up military forces in the area, because they REALLY thought that all that was going on in Torontia was the rebuilding of a nation. Amestria struck at this false sense of security, while systematically allowing their ACTUAL security to drop. Also, do you really think Amestria would allow Saint Fedski soldiers into BC to hunt for insurgents? If you really believe that, then request to Amestria that they make it happen.

No. The insurgency rose in BC because nations like yours – imperialistic powers after land - occupied the area and seized full control in an iron fist. Then when you finally left, you destroyed areas and incited violence in the people you had oppressed.
So who is really the one there for the betterment of there own nation and to install a puppet government? The Amestrian forces who made no secret that it was bringing in more soldiers to combat the insurgency and who have given their own blood and money for Torontia or the Saint Fedskian forces, who quietly trained millions of Torontians into an army and who point blankly refused twice to assist against the insurgent attacks that were killing Amestrians and Torontians alike.

Lord Sollonaal, Supreme Magistrate of Yallak

(OOC: Somebody start shooting at the logical fallacies that McKagan's using.

"Step right up, Step right up. Shoot three fallacies and win win win!")

OOC: Don't post crap in this thread thanks!

IC:

Official Imperial Transmission
From: The High Council of Yallak
Re: Foreign Affairs Hour – SFBC

I must use this time to draw attention to the hipocracy of Amestria and Yallak, while they claim to be helping the Torontian people, they are actually hurting them.

No. Amestria and Yallak are fully supplying the Western Torontians. They have full freedoms and are protected against the insurgency and all crime alike. If Saint Fedski would co-operate with Amestria then this debate would end, a Torontian government could be formed and all our military’s could return home –alive.

The most outrageous statement was made by the High Council of Yallak. They often portray Saint Fedski as the initiator of hostilites because of a small convoy of ten to fifteen cargo ships a destroyer and two frigates……The High Council also suggests that their blockade was in return for our "blockade" when infact they were already blockading Torontia before we even issued a phantom order to blockade Port Angeles.

Exactly. You clearly ordered your ships to present the face of a blockade, whether or not you actually did. Several warning were given before any shots were fired but you didn’t move your ships. An attempt to initiate violence to gain international support for your takeover, perhaps.
And as you are fully aware, the Imperial blockade was to stop the foreign nations and terrorist raids on the coast – not one of your ships was ever prevented from entering or leaving Torontia (until your ‘shadow blockade’).

The next topic I'd like to talk about is civilian casualties. Yallak and Amestria have deliberatly targeted civilian populations in their aggressive attacks. Amestria attacked the city of Spokane with a population in the millions, for no reason.

That was unfortunate, but necessary. Those airports were places where you were landing more troops and supplies. After your hostilities, that could not be allowed.

This unprovoked attack either proves that the intelligence communities of Amestria and Yallak are totally useless, or that they are out solely to conquer all of Torontia for their own use. Whichever it may be, the Commonwealth of Saint Fedski is prepared to defend this nation to the end, unless the governments of Amestria and Yallak are willing to reestablish a cease fire and negotiate a peaceful settlement.

We are not out to take over Torontia – are you??

I believe that I was fully prepared for peace talks, that I accepted an offer for peace talks and that I asked you to name a time and place. A Saint Fedskian reply is all that is needed for peace talks to begin!!!

Lord Sollonaal, Supreme Magistrate of Yallak.

Amestria Public Broadcasting: Report from Torontia (dubbed into English)

“Good evening, I am Jean-Paul Aznavour and this is a special report from Torontia. We go now live to Torontia and special reporter Beatrice Dalle in the Torontian Provisional Capital of Port Angeles.”

The camera shifted to in front of the Port Angeles Provisional Capital complex, which was fortified by Amestrian and TPG soldiers. Beatrice Dalle was a woman of about 41 years. She had black hair and typical Amestrian features.

“Jean, the Amestrian Occupation Authority has stepped up security here in Port Angeles following the launching of offensive operations against the Saint Fedski controlled zone of Torontia. Officials for both the AOA and the TPG refuse to comment on the current situation, citing State Security. All media has been prohibited from entering combat areas for reasons of Personal and State Security. There has been no release of casualty figures as yet. Police and soldiers patrol the streets while military aircraft circles overhead.”

The camera returned to the studio and Jean-Paul Aznavour.

“About an hour ago, General of the Armies and Supreme Commander of the Amestrian Occupation Authority, Basque Gran, gave a public statement.”


General Gran stood before the camera in full uniform, his presence and stature conveying total confidence.

“The Saint Fedski forces are outnumbered and their communication systems are shot. Olympia will be ours in a matter of hours and Seattle will follow shortly. At this very moment, additional troops are disembarking to take part in offensive and suppression operations. With Olympia and Seattle under the control of the Torontian Provisional Government, the rebel faction controlled by the Saint Fedski cabal will be forced into serious negotiations. Saint Fedski will be made to submit to the authority of the legitimate Torontian Government.”

An off screen reporter says something that the mikes do not pick up. It was apparently a question. Gran answered.

“When Saint Fedski takes our peace offers seriously we will stop!”

From: Lou Bryant
To: The High Council of Yallak

Terrorists - their supporters and their bases of operations. Civilians were not specifically targeted. Though I will admit that villages in those remote regions are not all mapped and civilian deaths were probable. That attack however proves my entire point seeing how it brought about an end to the insurgent attacks – one of Yallak’s main goals.

So now you're changing your mind? Civilian deaths are "probable?" Why couldn't you have said that before? If you were hiding that, what else could you be hiding?

Why did you need to ATTACK the airport? You KNEW their were civilians at the airport, but your "goal" was to disrupt SF military movements, correct? Why not simply, if you wish to be so hostile, fly in your Airforce of Naval Aviation units and shoot down the MILITARY planes? That way you would have killed only MILITARY targets? Apparently you don't think very much on how to save civilians.


Not at all. There were few ships blockading port Angeles, perhaps five to ten. Yallak has one thousand ship of the coast of Torontia.
If when asking for “slight technical specs on vessels of the same ‘class’” you want to know who’s ships are more powerful, armoured or heavily armed, then the answer is Yallak’s.


This statement alone shows how one sided and avoidable the conflict was.


However, your assumptions are wrong. Whether or not they could stop anything is beside the point – a blockade is a blockade – and we were lenient enough to give two warnings before firing on the Saint Fedskian vessels. They had ample chance to withdraw their ships. And the difference in ship classes is irrelevant – the blockade on Torontia by the Imperial fleet never restricted Saint Fedskian vessels, or their allies, before their hostile actions.


If you had really wanted peace, wouldn't it had been... oh, I don't know, SMARTER, to send a cargo ship through and see if the Saint Fedskians were serious about the blockade? It seems like you used a very small threat as an excuse to start larger conflict.


Ah more amusement!

Understand this, sir, Yallak does not want or need Torontia. The situation as it stands is more of a requirement than our choice. You see, when we left Torontia after the international community moved in to start rebuilding we promised to remove anyone who wouldn’t co-operate with the other powers (to prevent takeovers and land grabs by other nations). Before the fleet had even returned to Yallak, Amestria called on us to fulfill our promise and end the hostilities between Amestria/Saint Fedski and the imperialist nations like Red Tide.


Which is what you'd like to have us all believe. You're still talking in terms of conventional military holdings to try and distract us from the real problems. While in fact you're simply "taking over" Torontia covertly and quitely by infiltrating (with Amestrias help) the Torontian government.

We are in no way responsible for the recreation of any government in Torontia, other than to make sure someone set one up. There will be no puppets of Yallak installed; there will be no bombing of election candidates. Once this task is done, and the nation is in peace we will leave. What happens after that will be the Torontian governments concern, not ours.

No, but the Amestrians (who, surprise surprise, YOU SUPPORT!) seem to be running through the election process quickly. One day you have a few candidates, the next you have a complete senate! (used metaphorically) Oh, and I'm going to hold you to your words about pulling out once peace has been declared.

No. The insurgency rose in BC because nations like yours – imperialistic powers after land - occupied the area and seized full control in an iron fist.

If Amestria/Yallak were only thinking in terms of how to help the nation, why would they want to hold onto the small area we took over so greatly? Why would you want to STOP a nation from taking some of the burden off the economies of your own nation? Why did you object to it so harshly? Ah, it was probably because you didn't want a reputable military in the theatre that could challenge your own, I get it.

Then when you finally left, you destroyed areas and incited violence in the people you had oppressed.

McKagan destroyed stuff? That's news to me. The only pre-TPLA violence I've heard of would be the fires in the industrial district after Amestrian forces moved in to secure the city after the IMA left. It seems like someone didn't want to see the Amestrians, doesn't it?

So who is really the one there for the betterment of there own nation and to install a puppet government? The Amestrian forces who made no secret that it was bringing in more soldiers to combat the insurgency and who have given their own blood and money for Torontia or the Saint Fedskian forces, who quietly trained millions of Torontians into an army and who point blankly refused twice to assist against the insurgent attacks that were killing Amestrians and Torontians alike.

How does Saint Fedskis' refusal (if there was any) to aid Amestria against an insurgency mean they are looking to set up a puppet government? Whereas Amestria has systemactially destroyed the health and economy of their region (to make the people more depressed and willing to listen to anyone,) Saint Fedski hasn't had such problems out of their territory.

Official Imperial Transmission
To: Lou Bryant
From: The High Council of Yallak

So now you're changing your mind? Civilian deaths are "probable?" Why couldn't you have said that before? If you were hiding that, what else could you be hiding?

Why did you need to ATTACK the airport? You KNEW their were civilians at the airport, but your "goal" was to disrupt SF military movements, correct? Why not simply, if you wish to be so hostile, fly in your Airforce of Naval Aviation units and shoot down the MILITARY planes? That way you would have killed only MILITARY targets? Apparently you don't think very much on how to save civilians.

I have not changed my mind. Civilian casualties were always probable during such a large scale attack – which I will remind you ended the insurgent attacks. But of course, you as expected are only quoting the parts that suit you and not those that reveal any truth or counter your arguments – those comments you just ignore. As for why it wasn’t mention – it wasn’t brought up until now. We did not hide it. Or I would have denied your footage of the attacks that can in no way prove the Imperial fleet fired the missiles. However I did not.

I have already stated the reason why the airport was hit, to cut of Saint Fedskian supplies. Only with the airport completely out of action could that be achieved. An attack by aircraft would have resulted in the deaths of Imperial pilots to AA fire. There was no reason to add them to the death toll, when missiles would achieve the same result.

Saving civilians would have been preferable but speed is the key to achieving this. The longer any war in Torontia goes the higher the non-military casualties will be. Thus in some small way we are saving civilians, though it is a shame there is even need to save them when war could have easily been averted by Saint Fedski – as I will explain in regards to your next point.

If you had really wanted peace, wouldn't it had been... oh, I don't know, SMARTER, to send a cargo ship through and see if the Saint Fedskians were serious about the blockade? It seems like you used a very small threat as an excuse to start larger conflict.

No, our cargo ships are carrying out their duties. Saint Fedskian vessels already threatened imperial ships once, so we would not risk an armed vessel to them.

However, twice we contacted the Saint Fedskians in regard to their ship movements asking them to withdraw their vessels from near the port. They not only didn’t comply but they also ignored our requests.
Why? Who knows. Perhaps they wanted war. It would most certainly explain the hundreds of planes equipped with anti-shipping missiles attacking our fleet within minutes of the first shot. Even at the best rate of launch for a group of aircraft carriers (where the planes originated from) they could not have launched that many planes in so few a time – the only explanation is that they were already in the air, waiting for us to take the bait by fulfilling our promise of preventing hostilities.

This statement alone shows how one sided and avoidable the conflict was.

No, it actually shows how wrong you are. As you have clearly proven yourself – there is no military power in Torontia that can even hope to match Yallak’s. If we wanted control Torontia or to remove Saint Fedski then we could do it and easily. Why haven’t we? Because that’s not what we want.

Which is what you'd like to have us all believe. You're still talking in terms of conventional military holdings to try and distract us from the real problems. While in fact you're simply "taking over" Torontia covertly and quitely by infiltrating (with Amestrias help) the Torontian government.

As I have said, if we wanted to take over nothing could stop us. Explanation: We don’t want to take over. Yallak has is territory, it’s allies and its protectorates, it does not have puppet governments.

No, but the Amestrians (who, surprise surprise, YOU SUPPORT!) seem to be running through the election process quickly. One day you have a few candidates, the next you have a complete senate! (used metaphorically) Oh, and I'm going to hold you to your words about pulling out once peace has been declared.

But they have an election process. Saint Fedski has not to our knowledge held elections; no they simply picked who would be running eastern Torontia. If that’s not making a puppet government to take over a nation quietly then nothing is.

You hold us to our word. There is no greater promise than giving ones word, and you, and the entire world has our word that once a permanent peace is achieved in Torontia, we will leave.

If Amestria/Yallak were only thinking in terms of how to help the nation, why would they want to hold onto the small area we took over so greatly? Why would you want to STOP a nation from taking some of the burden off the economies of your own nation? Why did you object to it so harshly? Ah, it was probably because you didn't want a reputable military in the theatre that could challenge your own, I get it.

If we do not hold on to that area, then the insurgency will only grow. We objected because the other nations were after land. To make colonies in Torontia and exploit them for profit or resources. These other nation committed no money to relieve Torontia’s problems and they didn’t rebuild a thing while they were there. That’s is why we objected.

McKagan destroyed stuff? That's news to me. The only pre-TPLA violence I've heard of would be the fires in the industrial district after Amestrian forces moved in to secure the city after the IMA left. It seems like someone didn't want to see the Amestrians, doesn't it?

So you claim. The fires were there before Amestrian force arrived. The last act of a bitter foreign power more likely.

How does Saint Fedskis' refusal (if there was any) to aid Amestria against an insurgency mean they are looking to set up a puppet government? Whereas Amestria has systemactially destroyed the health and economy of their region (to make the people more depressed and willing to listen to anyone,) Saint Fedski hasn't had such problems out of their territory.

It show they are here only for the betterment of their own agenda, not really to bring peace or rebuilt the nation of Torontia.

Amestria has destroyed nothing. If they began to cause the collapse of health or economy in Torontia, we would remove them just as quickly as any other.

Lord Sollonaal, Supreme Magistrate of Yallak

From: Lou Bryant
To: The High Council of Yallak

I have not changed my mind. Civilian casualties were always probable during such a large scale attack[...]

Why couldn't you have said that the first time I asked you?

As for why it wasn’t mention – it wasn’t brought up until now.

What the hell are you talking about? It was, when I asked you about it. WHEN I asked you about it, you clearly said "Not a single Torontian has been killed by a Yallak soldier." Now you're saying it was probable? Why was it so hard to say that originally? I'll say again: What else are you hiding?

I have already stated the reason why the airport was hit, to cut of Saint Fedskian supplies. Only with the airport completely out of action could that be achieved. An attack by aircraft would have resulted in the deaths of Imperial pilots to AA fire. There was no reason to add them to the death toll, when missiles would achieve the same result.

So now you're putting the lives of your pilots ahead of the people they are supposed to be saving? Isn't that a "less than winable" situation? Or perhaps you'd rather keep your Naval Aviation units fresh for when you need a show of force against Saint Fedski...

Saving civilians would have been preferable but speed is the key to achieving this. The longer any war in Torontia goes the higher the non-military casualties will be.

I can guarentee you that Saint Fedski doesn't want all out war with Yallak and thus, would stand down once you made a threat against their planes. Plus, since your military is so much more superior, it would be much easier for you to stop violence, rather than causing it yourself.


No, our cargo ships are carrying out their duties. Saint Fedskian vessels already threatened imperial ships once, so we would not risk an armed vessel to them.

However, twice we contacted the Saint Fedskians in regard to their ship movements asking them to withdraw their vessels from near the port. They not only didn’t comply but they also ignored our requests.
Why? Who knows. Perhaps they wanted war. It would most certainly explain the hundreds of planes equipped with anti-shipping missiles attacking our fleet within minutes of the first shot. Even at the best rate of launch for a group of aircraft carriers (where the planes originated from) they could not have launched that many planes in so few a time – the only explanation is that they were already in the air, waiting for us to take the bait by fulfilling our promise of preventing hostilities.

Now see, if you had simply WAITED and not fired so quickly, you would have been able to PROVE the Saint Fedskians of wanting war. First, if they had opened fire on your vessels first; Second, how would they explain hundreds of planes flying over your fleet if no conflicts were to break out? How hard would it have been for you to think ahead a full TWO steps?

No, it actually shows how wrong you are. As you have clearly proven yourself – there is no military power in Torontia that can even hope to match Yallak’s. If we wanted control Torontia or to remove Saint Fedski then we could do it and easily. Why haven’t we? Because that’s not what we want.

You're still thinking on one level. There are more ways of taking over a nation than with a military! There's a war of hearts and minds going on in EVERY conflict like this. This is a war won not by guns, but by lies...

As I have said, if we wanted to take over nothing could stop us.

See above.

But they have an election process. Saint Fedski has not to our knowledge held elections; no they simply picked who would be running eastern Torontia. If that’s not making a puppet government to take over a nation quietly then nothing is.

Now see, there's two ways to look at this. The Saint Fedski part of Torontia is experiencing a great economy, yes, but it's still a wartorn nation. It's hard to even ESTABLISH control in this amount of time. By simply picking a government, they establish some sense of control that is NEEDED for future elections to be secure. In the Amestria district, rigged and false elections were QUICKLY (TOO quickly) passed through to allow a scapegoat through pointing out they have had elections whereas Saint Fedski has not. If you look though, I'd bet that after the Saint Fedskian's have their elections, their territory will be more secure and prosporous than it was before, and the Amestrian zone has ever been.

If we do not hold on to that area, then the insurgency will only grow. We objected because the other nations were after land. To make colonies in Torontia and exploit them for profit or resources. These other nation committed no money to relieve Torontia’s problems and they didn’t rebuild a thing while they were there. That’s is why we objected.

Care to prove how McKagan was after land anymore than Amestria is now? What made our brief holding (keyword: brief) more imperial than a prolonged one by Amestria? Futhermore, McKagan didn't have the time or resources to commit to Torontia. If you remember, they only landed a small force as to not appear hostile, but soon afterwards their supplies were cut off by who? THE YALLAK NAVY, REQUESTED BY AMESTRIA. The funds were available, more than Amestria could dream of spending. There was just no way for it to materialize behind a 1000 ship fleet.

So you claim. The fires were there before Amestrian force arrived. The last act of a bitter foreign power more likely.

If the McKagan Army was bitter, it would have left military grade mines behind and possibly even destroyed the cities infrastucture. That's a far cry from a box factory catching fire.

It show they are here only for the betterment of their own agenda, not really to bring peace or rebuilt the nation of Torontia.

Which is why they have fewer military resources in the theatre than anyone else.

Amestria has destroyed nothing. If they began to cause the collapse of health or economy in Torontia, we would remove them just as quickly as any other.

It is a proven fact that the lifespan of citizens in the BC area have been SEVERELY dropped due to massive outbreaks of such treatable disease such as the flu and cold.

Official Imperial Transmission
To: Lou Bryant
From: The High Council of Yallak

What the hell are you talking about? It was, when I asked you about it. WHEN I asked you about it, you clearly said "Not a single Torontian has been killed by a Yallak soldier." Now you're saying it was probable? Why was it so hard to say that originally? I'll say again: What else are you hiding?

That is still true. No Yallakian soldier has killed a civilian. It was always probable though that some died in such a massive strike, collateral damage from explosions. I am hiding nothing – hence why I didn’t deny the claims you had no solid evidence to prove it with.

So now you're putting the lives of your pilots ahead of the people they are supposed to be saving? Isn't that a "less than winable" situation? Or perhaps you'd rather keep your Naval Aviation units fresh for when you need a show of force against Saint Fedski...

Yes. The Empire came to force those who wouldn’t jointly work with the others in Torontia to co-operate, not to have its pilots killed. As it is we spared them when the Emperor ordered we didn’t wipe Torontia from existence after they attacked the Empire (may I add too that it was only because Saint Fedski asked us to and we wanted their co-operation - all that we still want).

I can guarentee you that Saint Fedski doesn't want all out war with Yallak and thus, would stand down once you made a threat against their planes. Plus, since your military is so much more superior, it would be much easier for you to stop violence, rather than causing it yourself.

Co-operation was asked for, offers of peace have been, threats have been made. Saint Fedski has either ignored them or refused them. Obviously your guarantee is wrong, or they would have at least responded by now.

Now see, if you had simply WAITED and not fired so quickly, you would have been able to PROVE the Saint Fedskians of wanting war. First, if they had opened fire on your vessels first; Second, how would they explain hundreds of planes flying over your fleet if no conflicts were to break out? How hard would it have been for you to think ahead a full TWO steps?

Fired quickly? We warned them twice to move their ships from Port Angeles. Several hours we waited between each. They had ample chance.

They weren’t going to open fire first and the planes were not over our fleet. We did think ahead by firing on one of their ships, then issuing a final warning. Then their true intentions were revealed in a massive attack on our fleet.

You're still thinking on one level. There are more ways of taking over a nation than with a military! There's a war of hearts and minds going on in EVERY conflict like this. This is a war won not by guns, but by lies...

And your still not listening. The Empire doesn’t work in half measures – if we wanted Torontia we would have taken it the second Tanakis fled.

Now see, there's two ways to look at this. The Saint Fedski part of Torontia is experiencing a great economy, yes, but it's still a wartorn nation. It's hard to even ESTABLISH control in this amount of time. By simply picking a government, they establish some sense of control that is NEEDED for future elections to be secure. In the Amestria district, rigged and false elections were QUICKLY (TOO quickly) passed through to allow a scapegoat through pointing out they have had elections whereas Saint Fedski has not. If you look though, I'd bet that after the Saint Fedskian's have their elections, their territory will be more secure and prosporous than it was before, and the Amestrian zone has ever been.

Funny then how Amestria was able to bring stability to its area already, an area far far larger than Saint Fedski’s. There are no scapegoats here – the Amestrian elections were worked out over a period of months and the actual elections had many parties to choose from. Yallak does not tolerate corruption and would crush any if it presented itself in Amestrian activities.

Care to prove how McKagan was after land anymore than Amestria is now? What made our brief holding (keyword: brief) more imperial than a prolonged one by Amestria? Futhermore, McKagan didn't have the time or resources to commit to Torontia. If you remember, they only landed a small force as to not appear hostile, but soon afterwards their supplies were cut off by who? THE YALLAK NAVY, REQUESTED BY AMESTRIA. The funds were available, more than Amestria could dream of spending. There was just no way for it to materialize behind a 1000 ship fleet.

If McKagan wasn’t after land, why then did it not communicate with the other nations and attempt to find a way to work with them. Had they the blockade would not only have not affected them but Yallak would have supported them.

If the McKagan Army was bitter, it would have left military grade mines behind and possibly even destroyed the cities infrastucture. That's a far cry from a box factory catching fire.

Booby traps were left behind and industry was burnt to the ground – you can’t get much closer to the description of what your forces would have done.

Which is why they have fewer military resources in the theatre than anyone else.

Their forces are of great strength too. They have less to mobilize and they have been cut off from landing more. And as I said, Saint Fedski has trained millions of Torontians into a private army.

It is a proven fact that the lifespan of citizens in the BC area have been SEVERELY dropped due to massive outbreaks of such treatable disease such as the flu and cold.

You’re not a very informed reporter. The health problems in BC have already been curbed in the south and are hours away from being stopped in the other areas. Amestria has taken remarkably little time to stop an epic health plague.

Lord Sollonaal, Supreme Magistrate of Yallak

From: Lou Bryant
To: The High Council of Yallak

That is still true. No Yallakian soldier has killed a civilian. It was always probable though that some died in such a massive strike, collateral damage from explosions.

Why didn't you say that the first time? That's what i'm asking. You clearly stated that no Torontian civilian had died as a result of your attacks; that's not up for discussion nor do I want it to be. Simply, why were you so slow to recognize that you DID kill people needlessly?


Yes. The Empire came to force those who wouldn’t jointly work with the others in Torontia to co-operate, not to have its pilots killed. As it is we spared them when the Emperor ordered we didn’t wipe Torontia from existence after they attacked the Empire (may I add too that it was only because Saint Fedski asked us to and we wanted their co-operation - all that we still want).

Ok, question. You said your pilots would be killed by AA fire from the Saint Fedski units, correct? How many civilian families live in those AA positions? Why couldn't you have targeted THOSE positions first, then allow your pilots to operate unchallenged against nothing BUT the SF military targets? Again, civilian death WAS avoidable in that stage of the conflict. It's time for you to admit that, methinks.

Co-operation was asked for, offers of peace have been, threats have been made. Saint Fedski has either ignored them or refused them. Obviously your guarantee is wrong, or they would have at least responded by now.

Why do you expect them to respond to you while at the same time you're driving tank columns into their cities and them destroying that cities ability to communicate? You're sending mixed messages.


They weren’t going to open fire first and the planes were not over our fleet. We did think ahead by firing on one of their ships, then issuing a final warning. Then their true intentions were revealed in a massive attack on our fleet.

Ha! So that proves that you fired for no reason? "They weren't going to fire first" pretty well agrees with what i've been saying. And while you may be stating facts that their planes were not over your fleet, wouldn't you have noticed that fleet of planes (since they are old and not very stealthy) and had reason to ask why they were there? Since most nations don't use 400 planes for wargames or force-protection, you would still have proof that they were moving against you.


And your still not listening. The Empire doesn’t work in half measures – if we wanted Torontia we would have taken it the second Tanakis fled.


No, you couldn't have. That would lead to backlash from the international community as it's blatant imperial agression. For YOU to take the nation, you have to work more... secretivly.

Funny then how Amestria was able to bring stability to its area already, an area far far larger than Saint Fedski’s. There are no scapegoats here – the Amestrian elections were worked out over a period of months and the actual elections had many parties to choose from. Yallak does not tolerate corruption and would crush any if it presented itself in Amestrian activities.

Stability? That's why BC has been in flames because of the TPLA, and how the common cold has caused thousands of deaths...

If McKagan wasn’t after land, why then did it not communicate with the other nations and attempt to find a way to work with them. Had they the blockade would not only have not affected them but Yallak would have supported them.

Frankly, i've been told that the military commanders didn't think it was that big of a deal. Those forces were still partially under the command of The Lone Alliance, which was being treated as a friendly in the area. They weren't acting independently in the area, they were feeling in for their troop rotation that was strained. The McKagan Army couldn't negotiate after our landing because as soon as the troops started setting up camp, they were treated as hostiles and told they would be attacked in 24 hours.

Booby traps were left behind and industry was burnt to the ground – you can’t get much closer to the description of what your forces would have done.

Booby traps, in a collapsed military state! Holy hell, who'd have thought of that! Really, you can't blame the Amestrians inability to round up weapons floating around on the McKagan Army; as with their failure in training local firefighting crews.


Their forces are of great strength too. They have less to mobilize and they have been cut off from landing more. And as I said, Saint Fedski has trained millions of Torontians into a private army.

Isn't that what Amestria is supposed to be doing? If a nation wants to pull out of a region like this, isn't raising that regions defense forces one of the primary goals? Torontia needs to be able to defend itself down the road once EVERYONE pulls out.

Oh... wait...


You’re not a very informed reporter. The health problems in BC have already been curbed in the south and are hours away from being stopped in the other areas. Amestria has taken remarkably little time to stop an epic health plague.

Which really helps the few hundred thousand people who have died because Amestria let the common cold take hold of the population.

Good Evening. I am Andrea Brooks. Tonight on the Foreign Affairs Hour: Special Torontian Edition has a special guest. Speaking directly from his office in Sarnia is Admiral Ken Murphy, the Commander in Chief of the Combined Armed Forces of the Commonwealth of Saint Fedski. Welcome to the show Admiral. I am told that you have a prepared statement regarding the McKagan and Yallak debate.

"Yes Ms. Brooks. The Minister of Communications and I, in conjucntion with the Departments of Defence and Foreign Affairs, have prepared a response and a challenge to Yallak and Amestria."

As a note to the audience, this is a Special Edition and may run longer. Regularly scheduled programming will resume following the completion of this broadcast. Admiral, we will start after the commercial.

*Commercial break. There's a beer commercial where a drunk guy trips and falls and everyone cheers, a public service announcement or two, and a couple of the "Aid for Starving People in Africa" type ads.*

Welcome back to the Foreign Affairs Hour: Special Torontian Edition. If you are just joining the show, tonight's guest is Admiral Ken Murphy. Admiral, you may begin.

"Thank you for having me Ms. Brooks. Before I begin I would like to point out that this is an official response to the Yallak and McKagen remarks regarding the conflict in Torontia. Previously classified information will be released publically for the first time. This is a direct response, meaning that only quotes from Yallak and McKagan will be used. There will be no new topis up for discussion. Each quote will be addressed individually, unless otherwise specified.

We came to end the hostilities and even now that is being accomplished, unfortunately through war but you can thank the Saint Fdskians lack of co-operation and blatant insults to the other powers for that road of action.

The Commonwealth of Saint Fedski was the power that initiated the peace conferences and cannot and will not accept responsibility for the Yallak attacks on the Commonwealth's Peace Keeping force. The insults that the High Council is referring to came from the current Governor of Torontia, Scott McKelvie, who at the time was the Deputy Governor. Scott McKelvie is not a citizen of any Republic in the Commonwealth of Saint Fedski. He is a Torontian, born and raised. Scott McKelvie holds no authority within the Commonwealth and the Commonwealth holds no political authority in Torontia. With that said, it is only common sense that the Commonwealth does have quite a bit of sway when decisions in Torontia are made, but let it be known that all decisions are made by the Interm Government of Torontia and not by the Commonwealth of Saint Fedski.

Secondly, Saint Fedski was the first to initiate a blockade against the Amestrian Port Angeles. The Imperial blockade was a response to that.

Since the beginning of the Commonwealth's intervention in Torontia, I have been in direct contact with Theatre Commander, Lieutenant General Jared Fedora and the Deputy Commander, Vice Admiral Mike Bradley. I have also seen photos from spy planes and images from RADAR that the Yallak ships began moving into position before the majority of the Commonwealth Fleet was even out of the harbours. Intelligence Reports also point to a secret request by the Amestrian Occupation Authority requesting that Yallak begin a blockade. The Yallak fleet fired upon a convoy of Torontian civilian vessels, exporting minerals to other nations. Also, the escort of the convoy, consisting of three destroyers, was in no position nor anywhere near strong enough to even attempt to blockade such a large port, occupied by two Amestrian Carrier Groups. Thus it can be concluded that Yallak, due to extremely faulty intelligence, and an incompetant command, is the direct cause of the current conflict.

Torontia is not a sovereign nation – it has no government and no control over its own affairs. That is what Yallak is there to remedy.
That statement is both true and untrue, to certain extents. The area of Torontia under the protection of the Commonwealth of Saint Fedski is as close to sovereign as can be expected, given the circumstances. Like I have already explained, the Interm Government of Torontia, operates independently of the government and armed forces of the Commonwealth of Saint Fedski. Also, Torontia now has its own armed forces, its own judicial system and its own economy, though developing. However, the armed forces are still relatively underarmed and under developed therefore requiring a continued presence by the Combined Armed Forces of the Commonwealth of Saint Fedski. As far as intelligence suggests, the only independance that the Amestrian Torontia has, is its own elected officials, however elected they may be. There is no economy in Western Torontia, there is little security, but there is a large military pressence.

Or maybe Saint Fedski has stayed out of co-operative efforts The Commonwealth of Saint Fedski has not stayed out of co-operative efforts. The Commonwealth in fact initiated many co-operative efforts that were disrupted by the bombardment of Seattle by Red Tide, by the insurgency in BC and by impatience of the Yallak delegations. Each time the Commonwealth and Anglo-Fedskian delegations left the meetings to do their jobs in the aftermath of certain events, an offer to continue talks was made before the officials left. Each offer was ignored by the other delegations.

We also came though to enforce co-operation between the present parties to quickly and efficiently establish a new Torontian government The High Council of Yallak came to FORCE co-operation and to establish the government of whichever party was the first to bow to Yallak pressure. Peace cannot be forced, it can only be worked out. Force only brings more conflict.

Andrea Brooks interupted. Sorry to interupt Admiral, but are you implying that Yallak caused the breakout of hostilities?

Yes Ms. Brooks I am. Before the Yallak presence, there was peace. There was no fighting between Amestrian Forces and Commonwealth Forces. The only fighting was completely verbal, not physical. Though there were larger amounts of troops along the frontier than elsewhere, there was still no fighting. That all changed when Yallak decided to abandon its withdrawl, eventually leading to Yallak trying to take charge of everything and Amestria bowing to the pressure, directly leading to the current breakout of hostilities.

They haven’t done a much better job, they haven’t had too. The insurgency rose in BC, where McKagan forces destroyed the area they had occupied. That area is now run by Amestria. Saint Fedski hides away in Seattle, uncooperative with Amestrian efforts. Not only have they not done a better job, they haven’t helped Amestria. If it was truly their purpose to help the Torontian people, why then do they allow these terrorists to run around killing and being killed?
Please allow me to teach a brief history lesson. In the very beginning, the Commonwealth of Saint Fedski only deployed 2000 soldiers, directly to the Capital and largest city in Torontia. It was immediately noted that 2000 soldiers would not be enough, so larger deployments were made and the area under Commonwealth protection increased. In the early stages of intervention, Red Tidean forces following poor advice, began the systematic bombardment of central Seattle. A message was then sent to Red Tide who immediately upon reception of the message, ceased fire. No retalitory attacks were made and Red Tide began to move to the east and Spokane. With a force less then half the size of Amestria and controlling a similar chunk of land, the Commonwealth has maintained almost complete security. After the Red Tide withdrawl, a small Torontian force was dispatched to secure the Spokane Airport and the city itself. The force met up with a resistance movement that was pro New Order. The resistance was strong and it took the Torontian troops a while to breach the perimeter around the city. Just has that had been accomplished, the Amestrian missiles began to land, effectively knocking out the rest of the New Order movement and many civilians. While controlling an area of equal size to Amestria with fewer troops, the Commonwealth did not have many to spare and thus could not make much of a commitment to the BC insurgency. I personally ordered that General Fedora find some forces to free up and deploy to BC. I recieved a copy of the message that was sent to the Amestrian Authority.
o: General Gran
From: Lt. Gen. Jared Fedora
Re: Insurgencies

General, it is my understanding that there are still some problems plaguing various spots in and around the Provisional Government's area. We currently have some divisions sitting around idle. We can offer you the use of two armoured divisions, complete with mechanized infantry. You tell them where to go, our Generals will go there and get it done. With a new government in power at home, the Saint Fedskian military can reach its true potential. General Gran responded by saying telling General Fedora to deploy the forces to Northern BC. No details were arranged and no further information was granted to General Fedora. After a long conversation, I had advised him to send said forces to Spokane where they could be put to better use. To sum up that last run on, The Commonwealth has done just as much, if not more, with less troops in Torontia than has Amestria. I can have the comparisons republished if the High Council of Yallak so desires, but they are quite clear that The Commonwealth has contributed far more to the recontrstuction of Torontia than has Amestria.

we were lenient enough to give two warnings before firing on the Saint Fedskian vessels The warning consisted of over 500 missiles being fired against the small convoy in the middle of the Strait. The escort of the convoy, consisting of three destroyers, was in no position nor anywhere near strong enough to even attempt to blockade such a large port, occupied by two Amestrian Carrier Groups.

the blockade on Torontia by the Imperial fleet never restricted Saint Fedskian vessels
If it never restricted Saint Fedskian vessels, then why call it a blockade? If it never restricted Saint Fedskian vessels, why would it fire on the convoy that refused to stop? One again, it was Yallak forces that begun hostilities.

The Amestrian forces who made no secret that it was bringing in more soldiers to combat the insurgency and who have given their own blood and money for Torontia or the Saint Fedskian forces, who quietly trained millions of Torontians into an army and who point blankly refused twice to assist against the insurgent attacks that were killing Amestrians and Torontians alike.
The Commonwealth made no secret of its increased military presence. Even if it was secret, there is no way it could be kept secret because the only way to supply Torontia was through the strait, and right by Port Angeles and it's Naval Base. The Commonwealth has pured tens of billions of dollars into Torontia. Building, staffing, equiping and operating three brand new hospitals is not a cheap task. Neither is arming the Torontian Armed Forces, jump starting trade, and rebuilding half of Seattle. Not to mention the billions lost in trade. The Commonwealth could quite easily trade with other nations and gain a substantial profit, but instead a large portion of our trade has been transfered to Torontia, hopefully allowing their economy to grow, which it has, quite considerably. The Commonwealth admits to recruiting thousands, perhaps hundreds of thousands of Torontians, maybe millions, the exact numbers are not infront of me at the moment. Most of the Torontians recruited were members of the military under the command of the New Order and therefore already have training. However, Amestria has also trained and equiped just as many, if not more Torontians than the Commonwealth. The Commonwealth uses the Torontian soldiers to man defensive positions, police areas and hunt down insurgents/criminals on a small scale, while the soldiers of the Commonwealth are used in large operations and protecting vital areas such as military bases. While The Commonwealth may not have spilt as much blood as the Amestrian forces, soldiers from the Republic of New McFarland have been killed as have Torontian soldiers.

Amestria and Yallak are fully supplying the Western Torontians Supplying them with what? There are no civilian convoys or international ships travelling to and from Western Torontia. The only ships travelling between Western Torontia and the mainlands of Amestria and Yallak are military. With such a large military garrison, how can you supply both your forces and the Torontians comfortably?

They have full freedoms and are protected against the insurgency and all crime alike That's one of Yallak's mistakes. Granting Amestrian and Yallak soldiers immunity from prosecution. In Eastern Torontia, any person on Eastern Torontian soil is bound by the laws of the Interm Government of Torontia. There is no immunity. There is no excessive freedom for Commonwealth or Torontian soldiers. A crime is a crime and is punished as such, no matter who commits it. If a Commonwealth soldier is convicted of a crime while in a theatre of operations as part of a peacekeeping team, they are immediately charged with the same offence by the Saint Fedskian Military Judiciary, and if convicted, will serve the same sentence as sentenced by the host country. For example, if Private Joe of the Commonwealth commits armed robbery in Torontia, is convicted and sentenced to 10 years in prison, he will serve 10 years in a Torontian jail and then be tried by the SFMJ for the same crime. If convicted by the SFMJ, Private Joe will then serve an additional 10 years in a cell in his home Republic.

Several warning were given before any shots were fired but you didn’t move your shipsVice Admiral Mike Bradley informs me that no verbal or written warnings were communicated to any Commonwealth vessel until over 500 missiles had already been fired. One "warning" was sent to a Captain on board a destroyer, escorting a convoy, AFTER the Yallak attack had already begun.

And as you are fully aware, the Imperial blockade was to stop the foreign nations and terrorist raids on the coast – not one of your ships was ever prevented from entering or leaving Torontia
Until the rumoured Amestrian request, Saint Fedskian ships were allowed to pass through said blockade. If the Commonwealth wanted to take over Torontia, a few of our special cargo ships could have used that time to comepletely decimate your fleet. However, no such action was taken.

Your response to the condemnation of your terrorist attack was That was unfortunate, but necessary. Those airports were places where you were landing more troops and supplies. After your hostilities, that could not be allowed. How was it necessary? The Spokane airport was not in sue by any aircraft. It was a combat zone, occupied by a small resistance group in an area friendly to Red Tide and the New Order. The Seattle-Tacoma International Airport had a small military garrison, solely as security. The only military aircraft operating from the Airport was a small wing of Little Bird helicopters, used to shuttle small amounts of troops to and from their field positions for either medical care or leave. No military supplies were landed at the airport since it opened to civilian use. All supplies and equipment were landed at smaller airfields closer to the field positions, not to mention the military air fields that dot the country. With military airfields perfectly suited for military logistics, why would we need to modify and use civilian facilities for such activities? The attacks on Spokane International Airport and Seattle-Tacoma International Airport were unnecessary, unwarranted and have achieved nothing militarily. Such attacks prove that the intelligence communities in both The Infinite Empire of Yallak and the State of Amestria are incompetant and insufficient. The current hostilities are a direct result of Yallak and Amestria's bumbling, faulty and inept intelligence personnel. The cause for action as stated by the government of Yallak and Amestria are based on lies, untruths and distorted facts. I call on both nations to withdraw their forces back to their own occupation zone until they can get at least a few facts correct.

Peace talks can begin as soon as Kahanistan troops move in and secure the site.

Nonsense, Tough Talk, Propaganda, Craziness, Lies, Arrogance
The Commonwealth of Saint Fedski has no response to this nonsense. However, I will take the liberty and quote Lieutenant General Jared Fedora. "We may lose the cities and territory, but in proportion to the number of troops in our armed forces compared to Amestria and Yallak, they will suffer far greater casualties. They are attacking well prepared Torontian postions on Torontian soil and fighting against well trained, and highly motivated Torontian soldiers. They will not take Olympia easily. If they do take Olympia, they will face even tougher resistance on their way to Seattle. The only way for them to conquer the country like they so desire will be to sacrafice ten of thousands of their soldiers, and perhaps millions of Torontian civlians. And if by some far of chance, they actually conquer Eastern Torontia, they will have completely ruined the country and will lose billions, even trillions of dollars in rebuilding it. They are further ahead to settle for peace than they are trying to conquer to rebuild it their way."

How does Saint Fedskis' refusal (if there was any) to aid Amestria against an insurgency mean they are looking to set up a puppet government? The Commonwealth of Saint Fedski offered to send troops to aid Amestria against the insurgents and the rest of the story has already been told.

Saint Fedski hasn't had such problems out of their territory. The Commonwealth has had some problems, but very few. We attribute this to our excellent treatment of the civilian population and our immediate start to rebuilding Torontia, instead of securing strategic military positions like Amestria has done. Once again, our accomplishments have been published and made public many times. I believe they speak for themselves and I believe it is those accomplishments that have won the hearts and minds of the Torontian citizens and kept the area safe. When the citizens trust the protecting power, they are more willing to provide information than they are if they fear the occupying power. In our case, they trust us and they do reveal locations of insurgents, terrorists, and criminals unlike in the Amestrian zone.

Perhaps they wanted war. It would most certainly explain the hundreds of planes equipped with anti-shipping missiles attacking our fleet within minutes of the first shot. If my figures are correct, forty small aircraft from five large carriers, and two hundred forty five land based aircraft scrambled for a Military that constantly trains for rapid deployment its quite normal. With aircraft constantly airborne, it just adds to the readiness. Anti-shipping missiles are standard armaments for naval aircraft.

We don’t want to take over If you didn't want to take over, why would you even attack? Why wouldn't you attempt to be a neutral party between Amestria and the Commonwealth? Why would you condemn the accomplishments of the weaker power when they are far greater than the accomplishments of the greater power? The answer: allying with a stronger power against a weaker nation makes it easier to accomplish ones goal. If you had taken the Commonwealth side, you may have actually had to fight hard and contribute more troops. Not saying that you will completely run over the Commonwealth, but the chances of it happening are greater than it would be against Amestria. That is an alliance made to "ensure" a win. It just shows that Yallak would rather fight a winning battle than a battle that is just.

Saint Fedski has not to our knowledge held elections You are entirely right. We have not held elections. It was announced a couple months ago, that elections would be held in one year's time. That time is still roughly two months away. As for the Interm Government of Torontia, it is made up of scholars, former government officials, and well respected ordinary folk from the country. Before you ask, there are former members of the New Order in the current government. They have the experience necessary to help govern Torontia and there have been no complaints against said persons. When elections are held, we will see if they can gain the support of the people they have oppressed.

Amestria has destroyed nothing. If they began to cause the collapse of health or economy in Torontia, we would remove them just as quickly as any other. Amestria has done nothing to improve the health of the Torontian people or the Torontian Economy. There is no proof to show that they have. There is plenty of proof that trading partners, hospitals and other services have been established by the Commonwealth in Torontia.

threats have been made As long as Yallak and Amestria continue making threats, peace will never be achieved.

We did think ahead by firing on one of their ships, then issuing a final warning The only warning that was recieved from the Yallak forces was after one destroyer had targeted by 500 or more missiles. The massive attack wasn't all that massive. It wasn't even half strength. It was intended to demonstrate that the Commonwealth would not rollover and obey Yallak like Amestria is.

Funny then how Amestria was able to bring stability to its area already, an area far far larger than Saint Fedski’s. There are no scapegoats here – the Amestrian elections were worked out over a period of months The area occupied by the Amestrian Occupation Authority is roughly the same size of the area protected by the Commonwealth of Saint Fedski. The AOA has a larger military presence for a smaller population and area of the same size. With such facts undeniable, it is amazing how the Commonwealth has had very little problems in their protection area while Amestria was forced to use over 500,000 Amestrian/Torontian troops and over 200,000 Yallak troops to eliminate a small insurgency that got out of hand extremely quickly.

Their forces are of great strength too. They have less to mobilize and they have been cut off from landing more. And as I said, Saint Fedski has trained millions of Torontians into a private army. The Commonwealth thanks Lord Sallonaal and the High Council of Yallak for thier kind words when refering to the great abilities of the Combined Armed Forces of the Commonwealth of Saint Fedski. While we may not have anywhere near as many men in uniform stationed in Torontia, they are of better quality. As the saying goes "it's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog". Any Commonwealth soldier is equal to or greater than any 6 or 7 Amestrian and Yallak soldiers, and that disparity in quallity is even greater when the Commonwealth is on the defensive.

Soon we will see how committed Yallak is to bringing peace to the region. They initiated hostilities, they will be the first to cease them. Our requirements for peace talks have already been delivered to the High Council of Yallak and to the Amestrian Occupation Authority. Simply put, they are calling for a return to the pre-blockade situation. If Yallak and Amestria cannot agree to that, then they do not want peace. If they agree to it, then we have the basis of a peace agreement. Just let it be known that The Commonwealth will not give any release any Torontian soil to the forces of Amestria or Yallak without the expressed public approval of the Interm Government of Torontia.

Thank you Ms. Brooks for having me this evening. I hope next time I am on here it will be for a better reason than straightening lies.

Thank you for coming Admiral. You are welcome to be on anytime you have something to say. That was Admiral Ken Murphy, Commander in Chief of the Combined Armed Forces of the Commonwealth of Saint Fedski. That is all the time we have for tonight. I am Andrea Brooks. Have a good night.

Official Imperial Transmission
To: Lou Bryant
From: The High Council of Yallak

Why didn't you say that the first time? That's what i'm asking. You clearly stated that no Torontian civilian had died as a result of your attacks; that's not up for discussion nor do I want it to be. Simply, why were you so slow to recognize that you DID kill people needlessly?

No I did not, I stated no Yallakian soldier has killed a Torontian. Civilians were never specifically targeted, and so, as it is considered probably that some would die in a large missile attack, I considered it unnecessary to mention in answer to your original question of “And Adolf Hitler never said "I am a genocidal madman" either, did he?”. The simple answer that was given is no he didn’t but he purposefully and happily slaughtered civilians – we did not.

Ok, question. You said your pilots would be killed by AA fire from the Saint Fedski units, correct? How many civilian families live in those AA positions? Why couldn't you have targeted THOSE positions first, then allow your pilots to operate unchallenged against nothing BUT the SF military targets? Again, civilian death WAS avoidable in that stage of the conflict. It's time for you to admit that, methinks.

Aircraft attacks or missiles, there is no difference, our goal was to shut the airport down and either method would have achieved the exact same results.

Why do you expect them to respond to you while at the same time you're driving tank columns into their cities and them destroying that cities ability to communicate? You're sending mixed messages.

Our forces were nowhere near Saint Fedskian territory, nor threatening it, nor moving towards it, so we expected them to at least acknowledge our offers.

Ha! So that proves that you fired for no reason? "They weren't going to fire first" pretty well agrees with what i've been saying. And while you may be stating facts that their planes were not over your fleet, wouldn't you have noticed that fleet of planes (since they are old and not very stealthy) and had reason to ask why they were there? Since most nations don't use 400 planes for wargames or force-protection, you would still have proof that they were moving against you.

No, the fleet was not monitoring any air traffic over the Torontian landmass. And all it proves is that we are here to achieve our purpose – ending hostilities and bringing peace and removing those who don’t co-operate.

No, you couldn't have. That would lead to backlash from the international community as it's blatant imperial agression. For YOU to take the nation, you have to work more... secretivly.

The international community has no authority, its backlash unwarranted. Torontia was overthrown in a war, noone would have stopped us occupying the nation completely. And as I said, we don’t work in half measures – if we have the authority to seize something then we do it upright, if not, then we don’t touch it.

Stability? That's why BC has been in flames because of the TPLA, and how the common cold has caused thousands of deaths...

Yes, stability. The TPLA has been dealt a severe blow and BC is already being rebuilt, aid more so now by Kahanistanian assistance. And the cold, no doubt not common and a terrorist weapon, has been halted almost completely.

Frankly, i've been told that the military commanders didn't think it was that big of a deal. Those forces were still partially under the command of The Lone Alliance, which was being treated as a friendly in the area. They weren't acting independently in the area, they were feeling in for their troop rotation that was strained. The McKagan Army couldn't negotiate after our landing because as soon as the troops started setting up camp, they were treated as hostiles and told they would be attacked in 24 hours.

Frankly, your first paragraph avoids the point. You can always negotiate, more so if your being treated as hostile because that is the prime point of negotiation – to avoid a bad situation and work out a better one.

Booby traps, in a collapsed military state! Holy hell, who'd have thought of that! Really, you can't blame the Amestrians inability to round up weapons floating around on the McKagan Army; as with their failure in training local firefighting crews.

Booby traps in the fortress facilities built by McKagan troops during their brief stay, yes not possible link there.

Isn't that what Amestria is supposed to be doing? If a nation wants to pull out of a region like this, isn't raising that regions defense forces one of the primary goals? Torontia needs to be able to defend itself down the road once EVERYONE pulls out.

They already had a defence force, the only Torontian not in Torontia is Tanakis, the military remained. It is pointless, and damaging to a nation to further increase it military manpower thereby draining money from other areas into war machines.

Lord Sollonaal, Supreme Magistrate of Yallak

Official Imperial Transmission
From: The High Council of Yallak
Re: Foreign Affairs Hour – SFBC

The Commonwealth of Saint Fedski was the power that initiated the peace conferences and cannot and will not accept responsibility for the Yallak attacks on the Commonwealth's Peace Keeping force. The insults that the High Council is referring to came from the current Governor of Torontia, Scott McKelvie, who at the time was the Deputy Governor. Scott McKelvie is not a citizen of any Republic in the Commonwealth of Saint Fedski. He is a Torontian, born and raised. Scott McKelvie holds no authority within the Commonwealth and the Commonwealth holds no political authority in Torontia. With that said, it is only common sense that the Commonwealth does have quite a bit of sway when decisions in Torontia are made, but let it be known that all decisions are made by the Interm Government of Torontia and not by the Commonwealth of Saint Fedski.

And may I point out it was Saint Fedski and their Torontian Interm Government that walked out of all those peace talks, even cutting off communications with the other nations.

And this ‘Torontian government’ was not elected but appointed by Saint Fedski - highly undemocratic and it gives you massive sway over their decisions.

Since the beginning of the Commonwealth's intervention in Torontia, I have been in direct contact with Theatre Commander, Lieutenant General Jared Fedora and the Deputy Commander, Vice Admiral Mike Bradley. I have also seen photos from spy planes and images from RADAR that the Yallak ships began moving into position before the majority of the Commonwealth Fleet was even out of the harbours. Intelligence Reports also point to a secret request by the Amestrian Occupation Authority requesting that Yallak begin a blockade. The Yallak fleet fired upon a convoy of Torontian civilian vessels, exporting minerals to other nations. Also, the escort of the convoy, consisting of three destroyers, was in no position nor anywhere near strong enough to even attempt to blockade such a large port, occupied by two Amestrian Carrier Groups. Thus it can be concluded that Yallak, due to extremely faulty intelligence, and an incompetant command, is the direct cause of the current conflict.

The Imperial fleet was in constant position for weeks before your ships intruded on the harbour and when the fleet did fire, it was on a military destroyer not a civilians trade vessel.
I believe you forget to mention the carrier groups you have sitting in the straight.

That statement is both true and untrue, to certain extents. The area of Torontia under the protection of the Commonwealth of Saint Fedski is as close to sovereign as can be expected, given the circumstances. Like I have already explained, the Interm Government of Torontia, operates independently of the government and armed forces of the Commonwealth of Saint Fedski. Also, Torontia now has its own armed forces, its own judicial system and its own economy, though developing. However, the armed forces are still relatively underarmed and under developed therefore requiring a continued presence by the Combined Armed Forces of the Commonwealth of Saint Fedski. As far as intelligence suggests, the only independance that the Amestrian Torontia has, is its own elected officials, however elected they may be. There is no economy in Western Torontia, there is little security, but there is a large military pressence.

There is vast security in Western Torontia, and if you think it has no economy then your intelligence is more outdated than Morse code.
Quite frankly, it is your comments like “however elected they may be” that keep putting us in these hostile circumstances.

The Commonwealth of Saint Fedski has not stayed out of co-operative efforts. The Commonwealth in fact initiated many co-operative efforts that were disrupted by the bombardment of Seattle by Red Tide, by the insurgency in BC and by impatience of the Yallak delegations. Each time the Commonwealth and Anglo-Fedskian delegations left the meetings to do their jobs in the aftermath of certain events, an offer to continue talks was made before the officials left. Each offer was ignored by the other delegations.

As you admit you walked out of the peace talks, so do not try to convince us you didn’t stay out of co-operation.
And lies on top of it all. No offers of more peace talks were ever offered before your delegates left. Not only that, but we have more patience than any nation in these meetings. The fact that we were even listening to your delegates swearing, berating and insulting the others present proves that.

The High Council of Yallak came to FORCE co-operation and to establish the government of whichever party was the first to bow to Yallak pressure. Peace cannot be forced, it can only be worked out. Force only brings more conflict.

You understand now. Force. That was our promise – those who do not co-operate with the others to rebuild Torontia will be removed. Peace cannot be worked out when delegates walk out.

Yes Ms. Brooks I am. Before the Yallak presence, there was peace. There was no fighting between Amestrian Forces and Commonwealth Forces. The only fighting was completely verbal, not physical. Though there were larger amounts of troops along the frontier than elsewhere, there was still no fighting. That all changed when Yallak decided to abandon its withdrawl, eventually leading to Yallak trying to take charge of everything and Amestria bowing to the pressure, directly leading to the current breakout of hostilities.

“Before the Yallak presence, there was peace” and yet “all that changed when Yallak decided to abandon its withdrawal.” Our presence was there long before the withdrawal even began let alone was cancelled – therefore the correct statement is “even with Yallak’s presence there was peace.”

Please allow me to teach a brief history lesson. In the very beginning, the Commonwealth of Saint Fedski only deployed 2000 soldiers, directly to the Capital and largest city in Torontia. It was immediately noted that 2000 soldiers would not be enough, so larger deployments were made and the area under Commonwealth protection increased…..To sum up that last run on, The Commonwealth has done just as much, if not more, with less troops in Torontia than has Amestria.

First of all, that is exactly what Amestria did, only they required more troops to hold a larger area and fight an insurgency and defend against costal raids before our arrival.
Secondly, let us move on. Troop numbers have nothing to do with anything important enough to discuss in this debates.

The warning consisted of over 500 missiles being fired against the small convoy in the middle of the Strait. The escort of the convoy, consisting of three destroyers, was in no position nor anywhere near strong enough to even attempt to blockade such a large port, occupied by two Amestrian Carrier Groups.

No a warning was given first. Then missiles were fired and a second warning was issued. Had you responded to said warnings the missiles could have been self-destructed before impact. As you did not, the consequences of ignorance were received.

If it never restricted Saint Fedskian vessels, then why call it a blockade? If it never restricted Saint Fedskian vessels, why would it fire on the convoy that refused to stop? One again, it was Yallak forces that begun hostilities.

As you full well know, because it was a blockade against the coastal raids being carried out on Western Torontia. And it fired on a warship that refused to move away from Port Angeles. We fired the first shot, Saint Fedski gave the cause.

The Commonwealth has pured tens of billions of dollars into Torontia.

Well done then on your efforts. We have never denied that Saint Fedski is not rebuilding Torontia, but the problem is their isolation and refusal to work with others.
And if you want to put figures into this then the Infinite Empire has put hundreds of billions of dollars into rebuilding, on top of the cost of using a fleet to protect the coast.

Supplying them with what? There are no civilian convoys or international ships travelling to and from Western Torontia. The only ships travelling between Western Torontia and the mainlands of Amestria and Yallak are military. With such a large military garrison, how can you supply both your forces and the Torontians comfortably?

Your intelligence must be worse than even I thought then. The Infinite Empire does not work with the international community; our ships provide supplies and Western Torontia provides its own supplies. We can supply both because we have some of the worlds largest freight ships and many of them.

That's one of Yallak's mistakes. Granting Amestrian and Yallak soldiers immunity from prosecution. In Eastern Torontia, any person on Eastern Torontian soil is bound by the laws of the Interm Government of Torontia. There is no immunity. There is no excessive freedom for Commonwealth or Torontian soldiers. A crime is a crime and is punished as such, no matter who commits it

So now you are inventing facts. Crime is not tolerated by any Imperial citizen at any time. Even less tolerance is given to service personnel. Yallakian military forces fall under Imperial law wherever they are and are never given immunity. You are indeed right – There is no immunity.

Until the rumoured Amestrian request, Saint Fedskian ships were allowed to pass through said blockade. If the Commonwealth wanted to take over Torontia, a few of our special cargo ships could have used that time to comepletely decimate your fleet. However, no such action was taken.

You do not have the means to damage Imperial armour, nor were your ships ever allowed close enough to a ship to do so.

How was it necessary? The Spokane airport was not in sue by any aircraft.

Yallak never fired on Spokane.

Such attacks prove that the intelligence communities in both The Infinite Empire of Yallak and the State of Amestria are incompetant and insufficient. The current hostilities are a direct result of Yallak and Amestria's bumbling, faulty and inept intelligence personnel. The cause for action as stated by the government of Yallak and Amestria are based on lies, untruths and distorted facts.

Yet again you resort to this kind of immature attitude, only this time the whole world can see you do it.

If you didn't want to take over, why would you even attack? Why wouldn't you attempt to be a neutral party between Amestria and the Commonwealth? Why would you condemn the accomplishments of the weaker power when they are far greater than the accomplishments of the greater power? The answer: allying with a stronger power against a weaker nation makes it easier to accomplish ones goal. If you had taken the Commonwealth side, you may have actually had to fight hard and contribute more troops. Not saying that you will completely run over the Commonwealth, but the chances of it happening are greater than it would be against Amestria. That is an alliance made to "ensure" a win. It just shows that Yallak would rather fight a winning battle than a battle that is just.

Yallak fights the battles it needs to. We tried to be the neutral party enforcing peace but that failed to the pettiness of all the nations present. Now we do it the hard way – removing those who won’t work together. Had Amestria been the one causing problems in joint workings and Saint Fedski had contacted us to ask for our assistance then we would right now be aiding Saint Fedski – but that is not how it played out.
Contribute more troops? One thousand ships and two million infantry is more than a small contribution.

Amestria has done nothing to improve the health of the Torontian people or the Torontian Economy. There is no proof to show that they have. There is plenty of proof that trading partners, hospitals and other services have been established by the Commonwealth in Torontia.

Perhaps because they put their time into the important things and the rebuilding, rather than wasting it on attempts to gain international support and boasting about how much they are helping.

The massive attack wasn't all that massive. It wasn't even half strength. It was intended to demonstrate that the Commonwealth would not rollover and obey Yallak like Amestria is.

Indeed it wasn’t really. It was next to nothing, as was the damage. However you are still misinformed. Yallakian troops are deployed to support Amestrian operations; we are not controlling them.




Amestria was forced to use over 500,000 Amestrian/Torontian troops and over 200,000 Yallak troops to eliminate a small insurgency that got out of hand extremely quickly.

So that it could be eliminated just as quickly.

The Commonwealth thanks Lord Sallonaal and the High Council of Yallak for thier kind words when refering to the great abilities of the Combined Armed Forces of the Commonwealth of Saint Fedski. While we may not have anywhere near as many men in uniform stationed in Torontia, they are of better quality. As the saying goes "it's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog". Any Commonwealth soldier is equal to or greater than any 6 or 7 Amestrian and Yallak soldiers, and that disparity in quallity is even greater when the Commonwealth is on the defensive.

Your troops are probably well trained as we have said, but no, your troops are nowhere near the equivalent of an Imperial soldier, who spend his entire life in training.

Soon we will see how committed Yallak is to bringing peace to the region. They initiated hostilities, they will be the first to cease them. Our requirements for peace talks have already been delivered to the High Council of Yallak and to the Amestrian Occupation Authority.

Then let us end it. The attack has brought you to the idea of joint participation, its puporse. So here is the final offer:

We will hold all offensive operations if you attend immediate talks on the Imperial Flagship or in Kahanistans area.

I hope next time I am on here it will be for a better reason than straightening lies.

And perhaps next time you won’t use as many yourself.

Lord Sollonaal, Supreme Magistrate of Yallak

Amestria Public Broadcasting: Report from Torontia (dubbed into English)

“Good evening, I am Jean-Paul Aznavour and this is a special report from Torontia. We go now live to Torontia and special reporter Beatrice Dalle in the Torontian Provisional Capital of Port Angeles.”

The camera shifted to in front of the Port Angeles Provisional Capital complex, which was fortified by Amestrian and TPG soldiers. Beatrice Dalle was a woman of about 41 years. She had black hair and typical Amestrian features.

“Jean, the Amestrian Occupation Authority has stepped up security here in Port Angeles following the launching of offensive operations against the Saint Fedski controlled zone of Torontia. Officials for both the AOA and the TPG refuse to comment on the current situation, citing State Security. All media has been prohibited from entering combat areas for reasons of Personal and State Security. There has been no release of casualty figures as yet. Police and soldiers patrol the streets while military aircraft circles overhead.”

The camera returned to the studio and Jean-Paul Aznavour.

“About an hour ago, General of the Armies and Supreme Commander of the Amestrian Occupation Authority, Basque Gran, gave a public statement.”


General Gran stood before the camera in full uniform, his presence and stature conveying total confidence.

“The Saint Fedski forces are outnumbered and their communication systems are shot. Olympia will be ours in a matter of hours and Seattle will follow shortly. At this very moment, additional troops are disembarking to take part in offensive and suppression operations. With Olympia and Seattle under the control of the Torontian Provisional Government, the rebel faction controlled by the Saint Fedski cabal will be forced into serious negotiations. Saint Fedski will be made to submit to the authority of the legitimate Torontian Government.”

An off screen reporter says something that the mikes do not pick up. It was apparently a question. Gran answered.

“When Saint Fedski takes our peace offers seriously we will stop!”
It was another break from politics for Neo. He and the Deputy Prime Minister had returned from the Portshire Convention in Truitt, in his private quarters, where no one would hear his comments, and flipping through news channels when he caught the Amestrian report and received a marvelous chuckle. He thought to himself as he laughed:

Oh my God, this is much more crap and propagandistic than the stuff that nutcase al Zarqawi spewed out. Why do the Halberdgardians, Leafanistanis, Willinkians, Space-Unionists, Hailandkillians and Tannenmillians keep on facing threats from psychotic, WMD-hurling nutcases is a mystery to me, but if it weren't for the fact that Amestria is a democracy, the SWC would be on them by now.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
SECRET TRANSMISSION
TO: High Council of Yallak
FROM: USNSEA Minister of Foreign Affairs Joshua Lin
SUBJECT: Media

This debate between a McKagan correspondent and your government is tense, and we are neutral in this conflict. Godspeed from getting away from the crumbling walls that is the political pressure of the international community.

From: Lou Bryant
To: The High Council of Yallak



No I did not, I stated no Yallakian soldier has killed a Torontian. Civilians were never specifically targeted, and so, as it is considered probably that some would die in a large missile attack, I considered it unnecessary to mention in answer to your original question of “And Adolf Hitler never said "I am a genocidal madman" either, did he?”. The simple answer that was given is no he didn’t but he purposefully and happily slaughtered civilians – we did not.

Ok, I get it. But why didn't you say that first?

Aircraft attacks or missiles, there is no difference, our goal was to shut the airport down and either method would have achieved the exact same results.

False. Attacking only the SF AA positions with missiles would have been attacking only military targets. Then (once they can have air superiority), your planes attacking SF transport planes, would have been attacking only military targets. Attacking the airport infrastructure resulted in the death of several thousand civilians and it could have been avoided.


Our forces were nowhere near Saint Fedskian territory, nor threatening it, nor moving towards it, so we expected them to at least acknowledge our offers.

But SF is under attack by the Amestrians right now, why would they wish to negotiate with someone who attacks them?

No, the fleet was not monitoring any air traffic over the Torontian landmass. And all it proves is that we are here to achieve our purpose – ending hostilities and bringing peace and removing those who don’t co-operate.

If you seriously believe that someone can fly in several hundred old US fighters and your 1000 ship fleet be 100% stupid towards the situation; then I guess we have a problem with your ability to secure the nation, don't we? If you have satellites over the nation (which I'll take it you do since you have easy communications) you would have seen them, the AMESTRIANS would have reported something. It's not like F-16's are stealthy...

The international community has no authority, its backlash unwarranted. Torontia was overthrown in a war, noone would have stopped us occupying the nation completely. And as I said, we don’t work in half measures – if we have the authority to seize something then we do it upright, if not, then we don’t touch it.

YOU have no authority. If you come out now and publically say "We are installing a radical puppet government to support us from this point on," just see how many nations you'll be dealing with.

Yes, stability. The TPLA has been dealt a severe blow and BC is already being rebuilt, aid more so now by Kahanistanian assistance. And the cold, no doubt not common and a terrorist weapon, has been halted almost completely.

Sure, it's a bit more stable now. So it was right before the TPLA came around. Until there is a LASTING peace, then I doubt that it can't happen again.

Frankly, your first paragraph avoids the point. You can always negotiate, more so if your being treated as hostile because that is the prime point of negotiation – to avoid a bad situation and work out a better one.

Everytime we tried to negotiate the Amestrians told us we had 24 hours before total destruction. Then, once we talked them out of that, they cut us off and blockaded our supply lines.

Booby traps in the fortress facilities built by McKagan troops during their brief stay, yes not possible link there.

The only fortress facilities built by the McKagan's were small walls around the CITIES. There were no outright forts (minus fire bases and the like, but those were small) anywhere. That narrows it down to a... WHOLE CITY.

'Still not seeing it.

They already had a defence force, the only Torontian not in Torontia is Tanakis, the military remained. It is pointless, and damaging to a nation to further increase it military manpower thereby draining money from other areas into war machines.


I'm sure the military just stayed together during the invasion, I mean, THAT'S why you were so challenged... oops.

The military fell apart the same as the rest of the country; it needs to be put back together.

Official Imperial Transmission
To: Lou Bryant
From: The High Council of Yallak

Your grasping at straws now with your argument Mr Bryant.

Ok, I get it. But why didn't you say that first?

As I have answered many times, it was irrelevant to your original question that began this argument. Once it was mentioned however I had no problem discussing it openly and honestly.

False. Attacking only the SF AA positions with missiles would have been attacking only military targets. Then (once they can have air superiority), your planes attacking SF transport planes, would have been attacking only military targets. Attacking the airport infrastructure resulted in the death of several thousand civilians and it could have been avoided.

Wrong. Had we taken out AA positions and then held air superiority it would have required a constant Imperial fighter presence in the middle of a hostile zone. Furthermore it would prove pointless as there would be no way to determine if a plane was carrying civilians or was smuggling military supplies. Stick to reporting, your slightly better at that than at tactics.

But SF is under attack by the Amestrians right now, why would they wish to negotiate with someone who attacks them?

Irrelevant. They were not under attack during the first meetings and they were not under attack when the first warnings were given.

If you seriously believe that someone can fly in several hundred old US fighters and your 1000 ship fleet be 100% stupid towards the situation; then I guess we have a problem with your ability to secure the nation, don't we? If you have satellites over the nation (which I'll take it you do since you have easy communications) you would have seen them, the AMESTRIANS would have reported something. It's not like F-16's are stealthy...

So. What Saint Fedski did in its air space was it own concern not ours, hence why the fleet was not monitoring air traffic that remained over the Torontian land mass.

YOU have no authority. If you come out now and publically say "We are installing a radical puppet government to support us from this point on," just see how many nations you'll be dealing with.

As I also answered to this before: We had full legitimacy to occupy Torontia after they were defeated in a war they started. The international community would not have intervened.

Sure, it's a bit more stable now. So it was right before the TPLA came around. Until there is a LASTING peace, then I doubt that it can't happen again.

Yes it is more stable now. And as you no doubt have heard many times already, Yallak is here to achieve a lasting peace, even if that means removing those who prevent that goal from being achieved.

Everytime we tried to negotiate the Amestrians told us we had 24 hours before total destruction. Then, once we talked them out of that, they cut us off and blockaded our supply lines.

Because McKagan force were not interested in aid the reconstruction. There actions showed them to be occupying and so Amestria, after seeing so many others try the same thing, took the necessary steps to prevent that from happening.

The only fortress facilities built by the McKagan's were small walls around the CITIES. There were no outright forts (minus fire bases and the like, but those were small) anywhere. That narrows it down to a... WHOLE CITY.

Hmm, booby traps in McKagan constructed fire bases. They definitely must have been placed there when Tanakis fled. I think not!

I'm sure the military just stayed together during the invasion, I mean, THAT'S why you were so challenged... oops.
The military fell apart the same as the rest of the country; it needs to be put back together.

We were unchallenged because we were not the first to land. The military didn’t have time to fall apart or react; Saint Fedski had landed troops within no more than two ours of Tanakis fleeing.

Lord Sollonaal, Supreme Magistrate of Yallak

To: Yallak High Council
From: Lou Bryant

Do you feel that you're starting to slip? You've had to resort to insults to stay in this argument and your reputation has been damanged after it was revealed you A) Lied about troop death and B) didn't try to reduce civilian casulties. Of course, you'll only be able to start rebuilding your accountability after you admit to such things, in the meantime, I'm going to cut back on how much i'm bickering towards the same tired subject. I think the viewers of this program around the world have seen exactly how the Yallakians think, and they've now been taught just how genocidal you are. With that, there are still a few issues that require addressing.

Wrong. Had we taken out AA positions and then held air superiority it would have required a constant Imperial fighter presence in the middle of a hostile zone. Furthermore it would prove pointless as there would be no way to determine if a plane was carrying civilians or was smuggling military supplies. Stick to reporting, your slightly better at that than at tactics.

If you fired several thousand missiles at AA positions and MILITARY airbases, who would have been attacking your fighters? At that, if you lost pilots, it would be MUCH lower than the 10,000 civlians you butchered at Seattle International. Futhermore, you're right about how hard it would have been to determine what a plane is carrying, but that isn't 100 percent death to my suggestion. You could have very SIMPLY issued an address to the SF that you're considering any flights to Seattle military and they WILL be engaged. That way if SF is the genocidal nation like you claim, THEY would have been at blame for any civilian death. But you didn't think about that, did you?

So. What Saint Fedski did in its air space was it own concern not ours, hence why the fleet was not monitoring air traffic that remained over the Torontian land mass.

Riiiiight. I'm suuuuure you didn't have any idea what was going on... the Amestrians had nooooo idea what was going on... Noooone sees the MASSIVE AIR FLEET FLYING IN ATTACK FORMATION OVER THE NATION.... Sir, stop being a dumbfuck and admit to what everyone else already knows: You knew those planes were there.

As I also answered to this before: We had full legitimacy to occupy Torontia after they were defeated in a war they started. The international community would not have intervened.

I wouldn't bet on it. The international community once intervened in a war over thermometers. I'm pretty sure they would have said something if you invaded a nation and set up a puppet government just so you could take their resources.

Because McKagan force were not interested in aid the reconstruction. There actions showed them to be occupying and so Amestria, after seeing so many others try the same thing, took the necessary steps to prevent that from happening.

Mind proving how the fuck you know that, sir? The McKagan force landed and was immediately treated as a hostile before they could explain themselves or even start to aid the Torontian people. If you hadn't have blockaded the nation, they COULD have, but noooo, you felt your power challenged by 10,000 Soldiers and a tank division. McKagan left on it's own free will, and if the IMA had wanted to, they would be sitting in Seattle rebuilding the nation themselves right now.


Hmm, booby traps in McKagan constructed fire bases. They definitely must have been placed there when Tanakis fled. I think not!

McKagan Soldiers, once pulling out of the nation, oddly, no longer maintained security over those bases! Imagine that? Anyone could have planted booby traps there between the time the Soldiers loaded into the SD's and the time that the Amestrians got through the city. Besides, the TPLA (who probably planted the bombs or whatever) KNEW that the old military posts would be the place that Amestrian forces would go first. It's not rocket science.

Official Imperial Transmission
To: Lou Bryant
From: The High Council of Yallak

Do you feel that you're starting to slip? You've had to resort to insults to stay in this argument and your reputation has been damanged after it was revealed you A) Lied about troop death and B) didn't try to reduce civilian casulties. Of course, you'll only be able to start rebuilding your accountability after you admit to such things, in the meantime, I'm going to cut back on how much i'm bickering towards the same tired subject. I think the viewers of this program around the world have seen exactly how the Yallakians think, and they've now been taught just how genocidal you are.

No, but I think you are. And I can’t believe your being serious – your arguments have been based on insults this entire debate.

it would probably help if you stop being a dick, too.
Sir, that is pathetic.
Sir, stop being a dumbfuck

Just a few little examples, you no doubt recall issuing. The Yallakian reputation is untarnished. We did no lie about troop death, and we came to Torontia to remove those who disrupted joint work, and to do that certain measures must be taken even if some civilians die.

If you fired several thousand missiles at AA positions and MILITARY airbases, who would have been attacking your fighters? At that, if you lost pilots, it would be MUCH lower than the 10,000 civlians you butchered at Seattle International. Futhermore, you're right about how hard it would have been to determine what a plane is carrying, but that isn't 100 percent death to my suggestion. You could have very SIMPLY issued an address to the SF that you're considering any flights to Seattle military and they WILL be engaged. That way if SF is the genocidal nation like you claim, THEY would have been at blame for any civilian death. But you didn't think about that, did you?

Our fleet was ordered to deploy minimum forces. Hence why most of the ships remained far off the coast and only a tenth went within attack range. We could not tie up fighters in patrolling Seattle so our commanders did what was required – leveled the airfield – leaving no possible room for error, no chance that Saint Fedski could reclaim in in any haste.
And just a note to avoid embarrassment for yourself; less than 1,800 civilians died, not 10,000.

Riiiiight. I'm suuuuure you didn't have any idea what was going on... the Amestrians had nooooo idea what was going on... Noooone sees the MASSIVE AIR FLEET FLYING IN ATTACK FORMATION OVER THE NATION.... Sir, stop being a dumbfuck and admit to what everyone else already knows: You knew those planes were there.

I did not. You would have to ask Supreme Commander Dagon.

I wouldn't bet on it. The international community once intervened in a war over thermometers. I'm pretty sure they would have said something if you invaded a nation and set up a puppet government just so you could take their resources.

They would not have. Torontia attacked us, not the other way around. Our occupation would have been legitimate and unchallenged.

Mind proving how the fuck you know that, sir? The McKagan force landed and was immediately treated as a hostile before they could explain themselves or even start to aid the Torontian people. If you hadn't have blockaded the nation, they COULD have, but noooo, you felt your power challenged by 10,000 Soldiers and a tank division. McKagan left on it's own free will, and if the IMA had wanted to, they would be sitting in Seattle rebuilding the nation themselves right now.

As I said, your actions deemed your intentions otherwise, and Amestria reacted accordingly.

McKagan Soldiers, once pulling out of the nation, oddly, no longer maintained security over those bases! Imagine that? Anyone could have planted booby traps there between the time the Soldiers loaded into the SD's and the time that the Amestrians got through the city. Besides, the TPLA (who probably planted the bombs or whatever) KNEW that the old military posts would be the place that Amestrian forces would go first. It's not rocket science.

If you wish us to believe the Torontian’s came by such weapons that they are using, searched the abandoned fire bases and set up booby traps all in the space of less than an hour before Amestrian forces moved in.

But such things are beyond us now. The Empire has stood down its forces in Torontia and declared peace with Saint Fedski.

Lord Sollonaal, Supreme Magistrate of Yallak

But such things are beyond us now. The Empire has stood down its forces in Torontia and declared peace with Saint Fedski.

I agree. My opinion of you has increased alot now that your nation has stood down.

My challenge to the Amestrians still stands, however.