NationStates Jolt Archive

OOC: I want to keep the other thread as clear of OOC comments as humanly possible in order to keep the thread on track.

Main combat/story thread: http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=457521

Kraven,

Coming from the perspective of a pseudo-outsider, it looks to me like you're going all you can to avoid taking realistic losses and you're coming up with attacks that don't know even the slightest bounds of realism. A NINETY EIGHT INCH gun underground? Give me a break.

And those super soldiers you have? They seem like a bad imitation of the Borg from Star Trek. If you're going to use soldiers like that, you're sounding way too much like FT for my liking.

Those are just two observations from what I've seen so far, but remember one thing: Tactics are your friend.

I know it's a while away, but if you guys want a humanitartain task force to show up, let me know. This one will arrive with escorts this time.

Here's a few observations, take it for what it's worth.

First off these Sardaukar are wanky even by FT standards. There is no way that their armor could survive what has been thrown at them, as 50 caliber fire can tear through several inches of armor plating at a distance. And this insta-regeneration process, what's that all about? I don't know any FT player that has soldiers that can be blown in half and still be able to continue on in combat. These things are definately FT (wanky FT at that, borderline godmoding I'd dare say), as I do not forsee units with these kinds of insane modifications happening any time soon.

Second, like Sarzonia said, a 98 inch shell is counter productive. you will end up having a terrible range and muzzle velocity, not to mention that actually hitting anything accurately will be nearly impossible. Plus a round that massively massive would be extremely likely to be predetonated in the air by naval defenses. In a few years real life time, the US will be able to 'shoot down' smaller artillery shells. A 98 incher is laughable.

And to my knowledge, Tesla Coils cannot be used to 'discharge a bolt at troops or tanks'. Please explain how you managed to come up with this.

I won't go on and point out the very obvious flaws in your defense, as it may spoil things, but for the most part all I see is wank. Like I said before I don't know any credible FT player that uses the...things (for lack of a better term) you are pulling out.

Next to that, the 1000mm shells that my new SD (http://ns.goobergunch.net/wiki/index.php/Chuck_Norris_class_Super_Dreadnaught) is going to have don't seem so uber. (No, I'm not going to slap something even more freakishly big on, it's big enough.)

Besides, the Kraven forces got their asses handed to them by Yallak, me, Xirnium, and Novacom during the Invasion of Xirnium (http://ns.goobergunch.net/wiki/index.php/Invasion_of_Xirnium), and they used assloads of Capitol Police and thousands of Sardaukar. Then again, they were facing millions of enemy forces, too. If Kraven was G-d Moding, I couldn't see them losing AT ALL.

I don't know anything about Tesla Coils, so I couldn't comment on that.

As for the Sardaukar, I'm pretty sure they come from Dune, not that I know a whole lot about the Dune universe, I'm more of a next-gen Trekkie myself. All I know about Dune is the Sardaukar and the God-Emperor. :)

From my experience Kraven does not godmode, he rps fairly. The supersoldiers he fields are an important part of his story, they aren't something he merely godmoded into existance to win wars.

They are annoying though, and I look forward to dealing out grisly deaths to them during my medical experiments in Kahanistan's research thread. ;)

Xirnium, do you and Kraven get along with each other OOCly?

Of course. I like to get along well with everyone OCCly. Don't mistake Xirnium's IC utter loathing of Kraven for OCC dislike.

Apologies to Automagfreek for taking this of-topic though.

I'd say in terms of Tesla coils they are viable especially since they are viable today, just unwieldy, by PMT terms I'd say they'll have advanced enough to be reasonable Military weapons, especially since a Tesla Generator needs only a small amount of energy to start it then it goes on forever, I did quite a bit of research on the matyter of Tesla when looking for a viable portable power source and since it's in some use today I'd say Tesla is definetly not FT.

From my experience Kraven does not godmode, he rps fairly. The supersoldiers he fields are an important part of his story, they aren't something he merely godmoded into existance to win wars.

True, but Skager has a point. No matter what armour they wear or how regenerative or cyborgy they are - getting peppered with automatic fire or blown in half by an explosion would still wipe them out.
No super soldier, no matter how advanced, cant work if his systems have holes in them, etc.

Perhaps though but he has already said elsewhere that they are outrageously expensive and that the failure rate for the clones he uses for them is also high, they're by no means perfect since they can be avoided fairly easily after all the things can't move very fast at all.

He got Tesla Coils off of Red Alert 2, which is an RTS for those who dont know. In real life a Tesla coil would be completely useless as a weapon - impossible to direct, short ranged and even if you did manage to get it to hit a target (which I see no physical explanation for, unless the target agreed to stand extremely close with no other conductive objects nearby) it wouldnt do much to a vehicle, as Tesla coils are high-voltage, low-current affairs (which is the only reason the 'bolts' are able to travel appreciable distances through a non-conductive medium like air) and so it would not cause the vehicle to 'melt' as he describes. It may scramble some of the systems, but its more likely that the armour will just act as a Faraday Cage and direct all the electricity safely to earth. It would kill an infantryman definately, but you have to put massive amounts of power into it to do so and as I said before, you cant direct it. Best just to use a rifle, I think.

but you have to put massive amounts of power into it to do so and as I said before, you cant direct it.

good point - it would go to the nearest conductive point (they take the shortest route).
And if memory serves me correctly from physics, doesn't it take something like 40,000 volts just to pass through a centimeter or two of air. So it would take a crapload of power and a long time just to build up a charge to make the jump through the air.

Perhaps though but he has already said elsewhere that they are outrageously expensive and that the failure rate for the clones he uses for them is also high, they're by no means perfect since they can be avoided fairly easily after all the things can't move very fast at all.

They may be - but it still wont prevent them from dying when they get hammered by bullets.

Surviving a small burst - fair enough, but he does tend to RP them surviving things like losing their heads, getting hit by firestorms of bullets and even them getting up after being hit by naval gunfire

I know where Tesla coilds came from in that context but there does seem to be something behind them based in fact, Especially the idea of a Tesla Sheild http://www.cheniere.org/books/ferdelance/s52.htm , not quite in the context you'd think though since said sheild destroys everything in it from what it makes out.

Another thing is that through some of Nikola Tesla's other inventions was that of a Generator that did not need fuel and that would if given time increase in output in a very short amount of time to quite high levels.

Going off that although RA2 was a little wacky and zany for want of a better phrase with things like Tesla Sheilds actually having ben created by the Soviets viable Tesla coils don't strike me as impossible.

Yallak I've never sen Sardukar get up after having their heads blown off, merely be very innacurate with a bullet to the brain, the only thing really bad I've seen is the things clawing their way to things with no legs.

Yallak I've never sen Sardukar get up after having their heads blown off, merely be very innacurate with a bullet to the brain, the only thing really bad I've seen is the things clawing their way to things with no legs.

I might have exagerated that - though i think one did have their head cut of in the xirnium war and it kept going (could be wrong) but you get the point - they survive things that not even super soldiers could survive.

I admit they have unbgoly survivability as long as he doesn't RP more than one or 2 doing it at a time I doubt it's gonna make or break a war, though the only other real thing is his complete and utter invicinible Command Relay, in reality it would only take jamming that to cripple him though he seems immune to it, though he'll be streched pretty thin since he has invasions going on in lots of places and a war on his northern front, though he does say on that one that the Command Relay isn';t working too well because of AKA attacks, though that doesn't square with the almost ungoly speed of repairs done on his main city.

BTW just wondering Kraven you make mention of Numonica several times, it isn't in your factbook, where prey tell or what is Numonica, it sounds like a city since it has Hab complexes and ports which you've made mention of in other RP's but your factbook does say Kravonika is your only city.

You didn't reply to me on AIM so I'll continue to bug you; delete it or not?

Ok, Just to get some facts straight Here.

Yes, The 2,500mm Cannons are Ungainly, and are Generaly Unfeasable, They are used as a Deterant, to cause fleets to see these massive cannons and generaly stay away.

Tesla Coils, If AMF has a problem with them, then i will remove them, I don't know how they work, It just seemed like a cool idea to have them there, which is what my nations is based on, Images i make up in my head before i Create stuff, If its cool I use it.

As for the Sardaukar, They are completly Legit, I spent several months Roleplaying the Development of the Phase 1 and Phase 2, Ask Mini Miehm, i through Thousands of them at his Kerrigan, in the Under Ground Research Complex of.

I have Never Godmodded Sardaukar, and they are not FT wank, They use Crude Cybernetics and a Virus that animates dead flesh, created by Concremo Firearms, The Virus was however Modified by The Manchillian Science group to instead of Animate dead flesh, Repair it.

I do not RP Sardaukar Unfairly, each time one takes a wound its combat effectiveness drops, its ability to fight Drops, the Simple way to take one down is to Hammer it with AP weapons, they can only survive so much before the sheer amount of lead over comes their Systems.

For Example, Azrael shot the Sardaukar several times in the head, effectivly Blinding it, unable to fight It clawed at the last known place Azrael was, it was already heavily damaged and Azrael would have been able to dispatch it easily...

I thank you to those who have come to my defense,

As for Numonica, it was Captured during Nationstates War Part 1 started by Hataria, Coreworlds, Mini Meihm and Axis Nova were all present and can Confirm it.

Searching for Kraven Civil War, Outsiders Blamed will come up with the Roleplay that described the Development of the Phase 1 and 2 Sardaukar,

3 and 4 were done OOC and in the background as during the time of their Development I had exams, and my nation was pretty much Ignored apart from the few who'd RP'ed with me from the start,

Feel free to Ignore my Sardaukar, I really don't care because I am very tired and not in the mood at all to have people Shout and accuse me of FT Masterbation and Godmodding with all 5 knuckles without the understanding that i took the time to develop these weapons of war.

I appologise if i seem Blunt and Straight to the point.

Here's a few observations, take it for what it's worth.

First off these Sardaukar are wanky even by FT standards. There is no way that their armor could survive what has been thrown at them, as 50 caliber fire can tear through several inches of armor plating at a distance. And this insta-regeneration process, what's that all about? I don't know any FT player that has soldiers that can be blown in half and still be able to continue on in combat. These things are definately FT (wanky FT at that, borderline godmoding I'd dare say), as I do not forsee units with these kinds of insane modifications happening any time soon.

Second, like Sarzonia said, a 98 inch shell is counter productive. you will end up having a terrible range and muzzle velocity, not to mention that actually hitting anything accurately will be nearly impossible. Plus a round that massively massive would be extremely likely to be predetonated in the air by naval defenses. In a few years real life time, the US will be able to 'shoot down' smaller artillery shells. A 98 incher is laughable.

And to my knowledge, Tesla Coils cannot be used to 'discharge a bolt at troops or tanks'. Please explain how you managed to come up with this.

I won't go on and point out the very obvious flaws in your defense, as it may spoil things, but for the most part all I see is wank. Like I said before I don't know any credible FT player that uses the...things (for lack of a better term) you are pulling out.

I believe that the Tesla Coil he refers to is based on the Command and Conquer: Red Alert structure of the same name.

On a totally different topic, is the RP closed, because i was involved in the "Through the Bodies and the Mud" that seemed to be stillborn, i would like to have a go in this war

Ok, Just to get some facts straight Here.

Yes, The 2,500mm Cannons are Ungainly, and are Generaly Unfeasable, They are used as a Deterant, to cause fleets to see these massive cannons and generaly stay away.

Tesla Coils, If AMF has a problem with them, then i will remove them, I don't know how they work, It just seemed like a cool idea to have them there, which is what my nations is based on, Images i make up in my head before i Create stuff, If its cool I use it.

As for the Sardaukar, They are completly Legit, I spent several months Roleplaying the Development of the Phase 1 and Phase 2, Ask Mini Miehm, i through Thousands of them at his Kerrigan, in the Under Ground Research Complex of.

I have Never Godmodded Sardaukar, and they are not FT wank, They use Crude Cybernetics and a Virus that animates dead flesh, created by Concremo Firearms, The Virus was however Modified by The Manchillian Science group to instead of Animate dead flesh, Repair it.

I do not RP Sardaukar Unfairly, each time one takes a wound its combat effectiveness drops, its ability to fight Drops, the Simple way to take one down is to Hammer it with AP weapons, they can only survive so much before the sheer amount of lead over comes their Systems.

For Example, Azrael shot the Sardaukar several times in the head, effectivly Blinding it, unable to fight It clawed at the last known place Azrael was, it was already heavily damaged and Azrael would have been able to dispatch it easily...

I thank you to those who have come to my defense,

As for Numonica, it was Captured during Nationstates War Part 1 started by Hataria, Coreworlds, Mini Meihm and Axis Nova were all present and can Confirm it.
Searching for Kraven Civil War, Outsiders Blamed will come up with the Roleplay that described the Development of the Phase 1 and 2 Sardaukar,

3 and 4 were done OOC and in the background as during the time of their Development I had exams, and my nation was pretty much Ignored apart from the few who'd RP'ed with me from the start,

Feel free to Ignore my Sardaukar, I really don't care because I am very tired and not in the mood at all to have people Shout and accuse me of FT Masterbation and Godmodding with all 5 knuckles without the understanding that i took the time to develop these weapons of war.

I appologise if i seem Blunt and Straight to the point.

I still own part of that damn place too...

And yes, Kerrigan and her 3-4 Slivers did kill a few companies of Sardukar before they were forced to retreat... Of course they wre phase 1 and 2, and those Bolters sure can cause alot of damage with their AP\HE shells, and the explosive ricochets of Kerrigans Shredder did quite a bit of damage as well, IIRC...

I still own part of that damn place too...

yes you do, I generaly refer to my part as Southern Numonica

Might be an idea to make a note of Numonica in your fact book then, not nit picking or anything but little details like that would add depth to what in general are very interesting RP's to read, some of the things seem a little excessive and liberal yes but if both sides accept them then it adds some uniqueness.

Tesla is very viable in a PMT arena, there's so much information on it and with some of the resaearch the soviets did during the Cold War some of the stuff in C&C Red Alert 2 in terms of the Tesla coils can very possibly be viable, then again the only things Tesla I have are portable Batteries/Generators and a Tesla "Sheild" bomb in development the idea being an effect like that described would destroy the device that created saif effect.

yes you do, I generaly refer to my part as Southern Numonica

I need to start developing that... It's still got all my bases from NS War one there still, but that's it...

I have issue with a few things.

A 98 inch gun with any sort of useable range would generate recoil measured in the multiple kilotons. As Karma pointed out on the irc channel the project Babylon gun would have generated 27 thousand tons of recoil with its metre wide (39 inch) bore. In other words the same amount of force on the structure as a getting worryingly large city vaporising nuke. Now your gun needs useful naval engagement ranges and traverse and if not carefully measured propellant some elevation, and on top of all of that the entire structure has to survive an exponentially bigger recoil. Exponentially bigger than 27 kilotons. Now admittedly your not trying to hurl the shells into orbit but your larger shell will of course require far more propellant to move. All in all your not going to escape trying to dissipate the equivalent of a nuclear strike. Strategically these things are poison, they cost far too much, accomplish relatively for there cost nothing save tieing up resources in there construction maintenance and defence. They are targets and they light up the night sky with IR plumes that any decent satellite recognisance system built in the last 30 years could pick up. They don't say "keep away" they say "hit me".

Tesla coils are not suited to be used to be anything more than a glorified electric fence. A single metal cable to ground it, or I could point out the existing conductive foil bomb attacks in the Bosnia air campaign. There also highly vulnerable to conventional damage. The proposed tesla shields power requirements for anything of size and to stop war time projectiles would be staggering. I would have to say insanely so. That and you would be living in the worlds largest electric oven with all those nice discharges keeping you safe and oh yes ..super heating the air around you and converting not a little of it to nasty nasty things.

First the speed depicted of your "necrovirus". Its some form of protein based nanoscale repair system with DNA read and reproduction with massive cellular reconstruction capacity. This I could without issue accept though such a system would consist of thousands of "safe" and utterly artificial viri types completely unlike anything in nature who’s research and development would be mind bendingly expensive though production costs once developed would be admittedly reasonably low. I could even accept for a short while brute force operating of dead or extremely damaged muscle tissue by the viral mass forming electrical stimulators or replacing simple and vital body functions with pre set designs. The complexity level again takes another hike and old mister cosmic rays will start to blow neat mutated chunks out of your nice designer viri system as would plain operation. None the less if you throw a staggering amount of resources at it such a nanotech system and that is what it is could be done in a say late PMT time scale.

The speed of reconstruction is wholly unrealistic unless those troopers are carrying around spare turbo charged metabolic systems similar to a jet engine and a tanker load of sugar that have not just had large holes shot in their vital operating organs. That the viral reproduction (daaanger will robinson reproducing engineered viri systems that can radically alter your biological structure are a baaad idea old mister mutation will turn up soon enough) and reconstruction rate be massively higher than any possible biologic. Simply put you will reach biological burn out point long before you get to stick back on major body parts in combat. You could say keep them kicking if you had comparable viral mass on hand a metabolic replacement ready and time.

Think mould. Fast breeding moult in a petri dish full of perfect accelerated growth medium but still not one hell of allot faster than mould. Sure you’ve got your nice cumulative growth curve but it takes time. People die fast. Even people with massively redundant combat systems that make most FT nations elite assassins look like pansies. Unless you think you can do better than 4 billion years of viral evolution and change if not more if that whole spore theory is true.

Curtain walls ..and explosives.
Bad idea. Really bad idea. On the plus side when there mounds of rubble they will work quite well.

Massive fixed fortifications in an era of guided munitions and air power which can make a hundred feet of reinforced concrete and steel turn into so much rubble. Bad idea. Awful idea. Dreadful waste of funds.

I’m not going to touch the sadukar accepting damage from Anti Tank supposedly comparable tech weapons and being in any level of operational combat capacity. That’s just ah yes .."icky".

I have issue with a few things.

A 98 inch gun with any sort of useable range would generate recoil measured in the multiple kilotons. As Karma pointed out on the irc channel the project Babylon gun would have generated 27 thousand tons of recoil with its metre wide (39 inch) bore. In other words the same amount of force on the structure as a getting worryingly large city vaporising nuke. Now your gun needs useful naval engagement ranges and traverse and if not carefully measured propellant some elevation, and on top of all of that the entire structure has to survive an exponentially bigger recoil. Exponentially bigger than 27 kilotons. Now admittedly your not trying to hurl the shells into orbit but your larger shell will of course require far more propellant to move. All in all your not going to escape trying to dissipate the equivalent of a nuclear strike. Strategically these things are poison, they cost far too much, accomplish relatively for there cost nothing save tieing up resources in there construction maintenance and defence. They are targets and they light up the night sky with IR plumes that any decent satellite recognisance system built in the last 30 years could pick up. They don't say "keep away" they say "hit me".

Tesla coils are not suited to be used to be anything more than a glorified electric fence. A single metal cable to ground it, or I could point out the existing conductive foil bomb attacks in the Bosnia air campaign. There also highly vulnerable to conventional damage. The proposed tesla shields power requirements for anything of size and to stop war time projectiles would be staggering. I would have to say insanely so. That and you would be living in the worlds largest electric oven with all those nice discharges keeping you safe and oh yes ..super heating the air around you and converting not a little of it to nasty nasty things.

First the speed depicted of your "necrovirus". Its some form of protein based nanoscale repair system with DNA read and reproduction with massive cellular reconstruction capacity. This I could without issue accept though such a system would consist of thousands of "safe" and utterly artificial viri types completely unlike anything in nature who’s research and development would be mind bendingly expensive though production costs once developed would be admittedly reasonably low. I could even accept for a short while brute force operating of dead or extremely damaged muscle tissue by the viral mass forming electrical stimulators or replacing simple and vital body functions with pre set designs. The complexity level again takes another hike and old mister cosmic rays will start to blow neat mutated chunks out of your nice designer viri system as would plain operation. None the less if you throw a staggering amount of resources at it such a nanotech system and that is what it is could be done in a say late PMT time scale.

The speed of reconstruction is wholly unrealistic unless those troopers are carrying around spare turbo charged metabolic systems similar to a jet engine and a tanker load of sugar that have not just had large holes shot in their vital operating organs. That the viral reproduction (daaanger will robinson reproducing engineered viri systems that can radically alter your biological structure are a baaad idea old mister mutation will turn up soon enough) and reconstruction rate be massively higher than any possible biologic. Simply put you will reach biological burn out point long before you get to stick back on major body parts in combat. You could say keep them kicking if you had comparable viral mass on hand a metabolic replacement ready and time.

Think mould. Fast breeding moult in a petri dish full of perfect accelerated growth medium but still not one hell of allot faster than mould. Sure you’ve got your nice cumulative growth curve but it takes time. People die fast. Even people with massively redundant combat systems that make most FT nations elite assassins look like pansies. Unless you think you can do better than 4 billion years of viral evolution and change if not more if that whole spore theory is true.

Curtain walls ..and explosives.
Bad idea. Really bad idea. On the plus side when there mounds of rubble they will work quite well.

Massive fixed fortifications in an era of guided munitions and air power which can make a hundred feet of reinforced concrete and steel turn into so much rubble. Bad idea. Awful idea. Dreadful waste of funds.

I’m not going to touch the sadukar accepting damage from Anti Tank supposedly comparable tech weapons and being in any level of operational combat capacity. That’s just ah yes .."icky".


I think there have been some misunderstandings about the Necrovirus, its basicaly designed to plug up holes and stop bleeding rather than regrow entire limbs.

As for the Antitank weapons, they pretty much don't have any form of combat capability, they would still be active and still try to complete their objectives, but in most cases would be unable to,

This is also how, Sardaukar can have their legs cut off and continue on with their objective, the Necrovirus seals the wounds and prevents death from blood loss, this is the sole purpose of the Necrovirus

As for the 2,500mm CDB's they have lots of weakness's, and as i said before they are designed to ward off fleets from coming near, the Recoil from the cannon, has recoil compensators that turns the Recoil into heat energy, and disapates it through massive cooling towers, that if were hit and destroyed, would destroy the cannon next time it fired.

Yes, the curtain wall thing is a terrible idea.

Plus all it will take is 1 shell or missile to dent or deform that barrel, and then you're really screwed. If the round ends up being fired through a deformed barrel, it will most likely EXPLODE inside the gun, and a shell that big will make a large boom. That will in turn cause your nearby ammo dump to go up, which will cause your whole underground cavern to collapse.

Those massive guns and the large underground caverns that house them are death traps, and 1 well placed round will cause it to go up like the Death Star.

Yes, the curtain wall thing is a terrible idea.

Plus all it will take is 1 shell or missile to dent or deform that barrel, and then you're really screwed. If the round ends up being fired through a deformed barrel, it will most likely EXPLODE inside the gun, and a shell that big will make a large boom. That will in turn cause your nearby ammo dump to go up, which will cause your whole underground cavern to collapse.

Those massive guns and the large underground caverns that house them are death traps, and 1 well placed round will cause it to go up like the Death Star.

yup, and the Deathstar was controlled by an arrogant, irrational evil race called the Empire, The Corporation is exactly the same :)

I'll take you up on the point of Tesla again, the only maximum output limit of a Tesla Generator is by how many things you can hook up to it, in PMT the materials exist to create a Tesla Generator that is viable therefore it's possible to build them. Tesla Coils and Sheilds are also very viable if you know anything about Tesla you'll also know about the Soviet Experiments into Using Tesla and asscoated technologies first as a method of Missile defence and then later developing viable concepts of them being used in combat. In Terms of Tesla being Viable they are far too jaded by Red Alert 2 to consider Tesla as a viable technology on the battlefield, I could conjour up detailed arguments about a few of the other things but people would simply ignore them, some of these technologies are possible yet the concept seems too alien to them, too manu people's minds run on train tracks if it's not normal it's not possible they think.

Stop dogpiling on him for hecks sake he's already said they are for show, it's psychological more than anything else, half of his military thinking is in terms of psychological warfare, why would his defences be any different. He's put weaknessess a lot of weaknessess into his stuff, if he were godmodding those weaknessess wouldn't exist. If your fleet admirals don't have the sense to aim for cooling towers your best of replacing them with stuffed penguins.

So, um, I've been wondering this for a while, did you and AMF have a falling out or something?

I'll take you up on the point of Tesla again, the only maximum output limit of a Tesla Generator is by how many things you can hook up to it, in PMT the materials exist to create a Tesla Generator that is viable therefore it's possible to build them. Tesla Coils and Sheilds are also very viable if you know anything about Tesla you'll also know about the Soviet Experiments into Using Tesla and asscoated technologies first as a method of Missile defence and then later developing viable concepts of them being used in combat. In Terms of Tesla being Viable they are far too jaded by Red Alert 2 to consider Tesla as a viable technology on the battlefield, I could conjour up detailed arguments about a few of the other things but people would simply ignore them, some of these technologies are possible yet the concept seems too alien to them, too manu people's minds run on train tracks if it's not normal it's not possible they think.

Stop dogpiling on him for hecks sake he's already said they are for show, it's psychological more than anything else, half of his military thinking is in terms of psychological warfare, why would his defences be any different. He's put weaknessess a lot of weaknessess into his stuff, if he were godmodding those weaknessess wouldn't exist. If your fleet admirals don't have the sense to aim for cooling towers your best of replacing them with stuffed penguins.


Thankyou! Thankyou! you summed up what I am trying to say and do!

Just a reminder, there were 2 other attacks in my first post, both at different locations. I also got a new post up yesterday.

So, um, I've been wondering this for a while, did you and AMF have a falling out or something?

hahaha, I sent the most Violent Reichmarshal In the area to go to talks with Azrael, and Kahanistan, it kinda went down hill when the Reichmarshal climbed into the APC at the Kraven Base.

The Corporation had been planning the Betrayal for a long time now, but Azrael had forced our hand sooner than we had wanted.

Just a reminder, there were 2 other attacks in my first post, both at different locations. I also got a new post up yesterday.

Yes i will have responses to that Tomorow, i have the Day off work, so i will get up to date with everything that needs to be done

my oppinoion on this dosnt really matter, but it seems like another AMF is gonna kick ur ass war, i love them :) Though IC'ly my nation dislikes Automagfreek, they dislike Kraven even more, through their relations with Raven Corp, so yeah.

hahaha, I sent the most Violent Reichmarshal In the area to go to talks with Azrael, and Kahanistan, it kinda went down hill when the Reichmarshal climbed into the APC at the Kraven Base.

The Corporation had been planning the Betrayal for a long time now, but Azrael had forced our hand sooner than we had wanted.

Want some help? I'l bring in some minimal FT stuff if AMF doesn't object...

Want some help? I'l bring in some minimal FT stuff if AMF doesn't object...


I don't roleplay against FT, and I choose to keep my interaction with it as minimal as possible.

I don't roleplay against FT, and I choose to keep my interaction with it as minimal as possible.

I understand. No FT.

Kraven, you're pretty much on your own. I'll give you a corps of Wyverns, but that's it.

Well I already feel sorry for yu with certain doom about to descend from the skies in terms of AMF, never mind people dogpiling on you for daring to be unique in terms of military structure and theory. too many cookie cutter militaries out there, either everyone has Genetically modifed soldiers dominating soldiers and impossibly well designed tanks, or pretty much the same forumla minus the genetic modifcations.

Instead you use psychological conditioning I consider that an important distinction and then the style you command, it's not personality in charge of your forces that gives them flavour it's the lack of personality, the cold emotionless fury of cold metal. Psychological warfrare in general is neglected and as a result not many people see it and they fear it. I had other ideas about my military early on but ended up unfortunatly with a Stat wanker and did a 270 to keep him happy. Your tanks are a rarity opposed to being chucked round every 2 seconds, your airforce doesn't really exist instead utilising AA another bold move, Everything you do is fresh and there needs to be more of it.

Although IC differences and similarities will pretty much make sure there is no hope of a lasting peace I do respect you for daring to do something different while being dogpiled by narrow minded people.

Besides, I believe this RP is closed. There are too many people on both sides that want in, and it would grow too large and disorganized.

it certainly would, I liked the idea of a grand cursade against Kraven since I thought it would be fun but fortunatly I saw the mess it was on the AKA side and withdrew before I did anything.

I never said that using Tesla coils as a defence or offence was impossible or inadvisable I merely pointed out the problems. Its not exactly energy efficient and if a few canisters full of foil can (oh dear here it comes) foil them its not exactly scary.

Converting multiple kilotons into heat, successfully moving it and then dissipating it. If anything this would require a structure that is on the face of it insanely huge.

(A) Do you enjoy nuclear scale fireballs?

(B) Wasting all that wonderful heat. That’s just criminal that is.

(C) Recoil happens fast. I mean maybe if the entire gun was a giant ..well its not piezoelectric um .. piezothermic converter it would work but that’s a silly option. Heat is hard and dangerous to move around, and its sloooow while all your recoil would happen really fast.

(D) Moving Kilotons worth of heat. How to do it safely. A small volcano would be nice. This is not a little heat. This is not a few dozen radiators the size and scale of nuclear power plant cooling towers with pumps and a coolant medium. This needs speed because its arriving at speed and a massive area to dissipate in, because were not talking any scale of thermal energy your used too. Its not just a fine spray of hot water inside a concrete tube or 40. Of course you could throw a thermal super conductor at it but given that a thermal super conductor is amaaaazingly FT I wouldn’t advise it. Your trying to cool what’s is basically a fire the size of an atom bomb.

(E) A massive system of hydraulic and mechanical recoil absorption with a counter thrust (adding yet more stress on the barrel yes but lets face it its a 91 inch wide bombardment gun adding more structural reinforcement and strains is not going to stretch the envelope one hell of alot further) would be a much better option. For one thing your "dissipation" medium is going to be in the end the rock your gun is stuck in.

(F) How in the name of all that is holy are you keeping the barrel from burning out. With a shell that big a "little" bit of gas getting past it will be entertaining. From a distance.

Your gun is only useful at all in its role if it can traverse and do it quickly. Your trying to shell moving shipping, not an easy task on a scale of weapon that’s more styled for bombardment or orbital insertion with a scale and style of projectile that is inherently going to be unstable. A gun on this scale with a recoil on this scale and the system to dissipate or counter act that recoil requires that the entire shebang can traverse quickly enough and change its massive propellant loads quickly enough (because elevating it is a nightmare I would not bare to think about) to be an in any way effective weapon . That on the face of it is insane. Not fun fun happy anime explain the nadesico insane but scary wear your grandaunts skin as a shower cap while bathing in the villages virgins blood insane. The level of insanity will be scary. The combat effectiveness of this weapon as a coastal defence gun will not. Its not going to be a psychological weapon if every damn fool knows it can’t hit the broad side of an island with any accuracy. ( I tell a lie as a bombardment gun against fixed positions it may be just poor rather than ineffectual).

Now sure psychological justification for weapons is a reason (the only really good reason I have an MT and PMT Super Dreadnought class for example) but only if they have a hope of working.

I don't suppose you've actually read into Tesla that deeply?

Remember Kraven's Leader is a computer and what is logical to a computer does not always make sense, they view everything they do as perfect that's a weakness in itself, he's already said the gun is there simply to look menacing and perhaps do some damage, if he wants to have it that way then let him.

Like he said dropping a bomb on a cooling tower could cause an explosion theres your weakness use it, problem solved no more big bad gun. PMT isn't really meant to be uber realistic if you want that stick with MT, PMT is about a lot of maybes or what if's or how about this.

I don't suppose you've actually read into Tesla that deeply?

Remember Kraven's Leader is a computer and what is logical to a computer does not always make sense, they view everything they do as perfect that's a weakness in itself, he's already said the gun is there simply to look menacing and perhaps do some damage, if he wants to have it that way then let him.

Like he said dropping a bomb on a cooling tower could cause an explosion theres your weakness use it, problem solved no more big bad gun. PMT isn't really meant to be uber realistic if you want that stick with MT, PMT is about a lot of maybes or what if's or how about this.

Anothe excellent point, and may i also thank you for your previous statement, it means a lot to me, that some people enjoy what I do.

But may I also add to your above comment, that the Super Computer is Sentient and has a personalitiy of its own, namely Megalomania, it belives it has total control, it belives it is the centre of the world, It belives it is all powerfull and can conquer all...

It is if you imagine it, " If you build it, they will come" but

"If you Build it, They will fear it"

and because he belives himself to be the centre of the World, he belives they will fear it

Ah actuall comprable insanity to scary wear your grandaunts skin as a shower cap while bathing in the villages virgins blood insane. Right O that pretty much covers everything.

Ive read some but not alot yes. Tesla had good ideas. He had an awfull awfull lot of realy loony ones too. Will I bring up the arcing power between houses as a primary method of local distribution? Or conductive walls?

Like he said dropping a bomb on a cooling tower could cause an explosion theres your weakness use it, problem solved no more big bad gun.

No, the weakness is sinking a shell (which I did in my second post) or missile into the firing hole, and quite literally the whole place will go up. Ammo dumps tend to be very near the gun itself, and an 18" shell or cruise missile would more than suffice.

It's sort of like detonating a few hundred pounds of TNT inside a nitro glycerine plant.....

I meant a weakness not the ONLY weakness, and any specific reason for the tripple post or was it just laggy?

He can't really be accussed of God Moddery the things have so many weaknessess that you would actually loose any war if your commanders couldn't pick up on them.

Tesla thought outside the box and what other people have done with his ideas would have made him proud, the theories he came up with are unknown by the unwashed massess, the unknown things of this world are often far better than what is known.

Check my IC post, his guns are g-o-n-e.

It's considered bad form to post someone elses losses for the, let him post the losses, you never know they may even have beneficial side effects to you.

The mass Genocide of Kravens Civilians isn't going to sit well and may drive people to allying with him, also the resonstruction of Xirnium is already in full swing so you missed the boat and I'm doing some digging round to try and fix Kahanistan up with some early PMT/MT Novacom Military designs, since he seems to be happy hovering at the edge and Hijir's are hardly going to allow him freedom of movement between the 2, however Virage Fighter Jets and Tendern Tanks will however offer him that choice.

I know how to RP, I'm just saying that any guns that survives AMF's attack are going to be wasted by the incomming missiles.

Just to throw my unasked for input (:P), I did operate 1270mm guns for a while in my navy... They travered the length of the ship(I believe they were on top of destroyers), and were recoilless designs. It used HE rounds, and saboted 18 inchers for destroying ships over 100km away.

It's considered bad form to post someone elses losses for the, let him post the losses, you never know they may even have beneficial side effects to you.


In his post he made no indication of stating losses for Kraven.....

You can direct electrical charges, just provide a path. One way would be to use ultraviolet lasers to ionize the air and provide a path. Thats just one way I am sure there are others as well. With a little imagination particle beams of no great power might do the job. Now I admit the stuff with the super soldiers is crazy in my opinion. But I just had to say something about whats impossible and whats possible is all.

Saitek One,
C-ya soon

Check my IC post, his guns are g-o-n-e.

Could have fooled me.

I'm told I'm quite an actor.

Bump

You still with us Kraven?

Bump

You still with us Kraven?

Im here still!, ive posted, if you just check out my Tagged post it will be there

Velkya: The Fleet is Currently Docked in Numonica, But there are a couple of Torment Class Super Submarines Docked in Hardened Shelters at the Kravonika Docks

Not for long, hehehe. Sub pens are quite easy to spot from orbit.

Not for long, hehehe. Sub pens are quite easy to spot from orbit.

But extremely difficult to crack with anything but the most monstrous of weapons.

There's a reason I have rail cannons in orbit. Also, Xirnium, if you wish, you may send pilots/aircraft over the Velkya for Operation Firestorm.

Should Kraven not want me to use them, I'll simply pound it with sub-launched missiles until they crack.

To my Knowledge Kraven doesn't actually have an air force apart from VTOL transports.

Also if you have weapons strong enough to do said cracking then you'd be better off aiming them at the Citdal and praying you manage to impale The Father's Data Core...

Kraven, how effective would EMP blasts be against your forces?

To my Knowledge Kraven doesn't actually have an air force apart from VTOL transports.

Also if you have weapons strong enough to do said cracking then you'd be better off aiming them at the Citdal and praying you manage to impale The Father's Data Core...

Kraven has quite an air force, he scrambled a whole lot of fighters over City 17 in the First Kraven War.

And if you truly think Kraven will RP loosing his Father to a stray bunker buster or SRBM, you are quite wrong.

And if you truly think Kraven will RP loosing his Father to a stray bunker buster or SRBM, you are quite wrong.
Indeed, Father is Kraven, and without it the Corporation wouldn't even exist, he's not losing it any time soon. So long as Father remains Kraven can never truly die.

I think we all have our own comaparable "holiest of hollies".

Edit: Velkya, I'm currently attempting to organise Holy Xirnium's commitment to this looming war. I'll take a good look at your operation and reply soon. For the meantime, I can say I’ll probably send something substantial (by my standards).

Velkya, that's a negative on the TG. Haven't received one.

your propably right actually since I beleive The Father is still "cowering" In Imperial Raven.

and Velkya I'd propably take you up on biggest air strike force in recent history :P , I take pride in my Mobile suits though that may make it an exception :)

OOC: This is launch of Operation Hellfire

Heh, that name has been used before, in fact just recently.

http://ns.goobergunch.net/wiki/index.php/Operation_Hellfire

Heh, that name has been used before, in fact just recently.

http://ns.goobergunch.net/wiki/index.php/Operation_Hellfire

Oops, musta been thinking of that while I was typing, the name of the op is Firestorm. Sorry for the mix-up.

Crap, I had a giant ass post finished, but then when I hit the 'Submit Reply' button my browser crashed.

I'll remake and post tomorrow.

That's why when I make a post with HUGE paragraphs, I always copy it in case the server dies on me.

I type all mine in word then copy it over - you get spellcheck while your writing and if the forums screw up you can just copy it over again easily.

That's why when I make a post with HUGE paragraphs, I always copy it in case the server dies on me.

:rolleyes:

Yes yes, I know. I was in a hurry.

:rolleyes:

Yes yes, I know. I was in a hurry.

Don't worry, I can wait, Take your time I would rather have a slow progressing RP thats excellent than a fast paced RP that is rather poor, but it will also give me a chance to Catch up on other matters

Don't worry, I can wait, Take your time I would rather have a slow progressing RP thats excellent than a fast paced RP that is rather poor, but it will also give me a chance to Catch up on other matters

Like the Harvester Threat... We're getting impatient Kraven...

To everybody else, sorry about this.

Like the Harvester Threat... We're getting impatient Kraven...

To everybody else, sorry about this.

1 step ahead of you,

I do feel sorry for you after all there are so many threads to reply to, like the abnormal psychology one... :P

I do feel sorry for you after all there are so many threads to reply to, like the abnormal psychology one... :P
lol

Yes Yes, Its my ownfault, Im hopelessly addicted to NS

And Everyone is addicted to your Nation and RPing style :P

It'll be interesting to see how the CP react to all the experiments in progress, I do hope your nation will survive the certain doom descending down from AMF.

And Everyone is addicted to your Nation and RPing style :P

It'll be interesting to see how the CP react to all the experiments in progress, I do hope your nation will survive the certain doom descending down from AMF.

I try my best :D

As for the experiments, I never planned for CP to be experimented on, so its mostly as I come to it.

if AMF does destroy Kraven, then I have some interesting RP's lined up, if however he is defeated against my Shores, then The Corporation will march to war once again

Experimenting on CP is a new experience to us all, Thus why some of the experiments I posted up some rather weird/random or inspired by The Crystal Maze lol.

Just out of Interest what sort of future would Kraven have if the Corporation were destroyed? It might be interesting to weave in some ideas I had a while ago hehe, I highly suspect the first stopping point of the Corporations march once more to war again would be Xirnium, though that's already a given lol.

Experimenting on CP is a new experience to us all, Thus why some of the experiments I posted up some rather weird/random or inspired by The Crystal Maze lol.

Just out of Interest what sort of future would Kraven have if the Corporation were destroyed? It might be interesting to weave in some ideas I had a while ago hehe, I highly suspect the first stopping point of the Corporations march once more to war again would be Xirnium, though that's already a given lol.

Well, I don't want to give anything away, But as Xirnium said before, Father is Kraven, and while he still exists, Kraven is never truely dead

Lol, Cyrstal Maze, I suppose you will have them trying to grab as many silver and gold tickets as possible to win a hang-gliding holiday?

LOL, not quite hehe, it all depends on how they react to the rather bizzare experiments, but the idea of them doing something like that in indeed an inspired one I'll have to try that in the next round of testing.

Interesting indeed, with the amount of suprises pulled out laely I wouldn't be particularly suprised if Undead Capitol Police and Sardukar rose up out of the ground escorted by hellish creatures from the Depths of Valgen.

LOL, not quite hehe, it all depends on how they react to the rather bizzare experiments, but the idea of them doing something like that in indeed an inspired one I'll have to try that in the next round of testing.

Interesting indeed, with the amount of suprises pulled out laely I wouldn't be particularly suprised if Undead Capitol Police and Sardukar rose up out of the ground escorted by hellish creatures from the Depths of Valgen.

Heh, irony... They weren't quite undead, but there were Hellish Creatures involved....

LOL, not quite hehe, it all depends on how they react to the rather bizzare experiments, but the idea of them doing something like that in indeed an inspired one I'll have to try that in the next round of testing.

Interesting indeed, with the amount of suprises pulled out laely I wouldn't be particularly suprised if Undead Capitol Police and Sardukar rose up out of the ground escorted by hellish creatures from the Depths of Valgen.

Lol, Not quite either, You'll see if it comes to it, Perhaps i could use your nation, for it hmm

Heh, irony... They weren't quite undead, but there were Hellish Creatures involved....

I think Mini, we might have to Finish that RP

I can hardly wait, be sure to give me a heads up if you decide to spring anything out, even if I don't get involved it's always an interesting read *cackles*

if only the War Undone by War thread would come back to life, I'm looking forward to conjuring up some hellish Creatures to go with some Diri E I G Ignen Mythology, Valgen is their version of hell, and the source of all evil hence why I link Admiral Kukonois and his forces with the place through references the mythology I'm creating.

I can hardly wait, be sure to give me a heads up if you decide to spring anything out, even if I don't get involved it's always an interesting read *cackles*

if only the War Undone by War thread would come back to life, I'm looking forward to conjuring up some hellish Creatures to go with some Diri E I G Ignen Mythology, Valgen is their version of hell, and the source of all evil hence why I link Admiral Kukonois and his forces with the place through references the mythology I'm creating.

If it comes to it, Ill give you a heads up, but not enough to spoil the event

A simple warning is all :P

Trust me I know all about suprise being important, I have a few cooking away myself I'm looking forward to unleashing them when the time is right.

A simple warning is all :P

Trust me I know all about suprise being important, I have a few cooking away myself I'm looking forward to unleashing them when the time is right.

and that is all you'll get :P

Can i suggest if you like my RP style to read Dark Endeavours, its a little different, and gives a slighlty different aspect on the Corporation, up to a point... then it all goes a little weird

and that is all you'll get :P

Can i suggest if you like my RP style to read Dark Endeavours, its a little different, and gives a slighlty different aspect on the Corporation, up to a point... then it all goes a little weird

That's one word for it... I had to drag out early-FT\late-PMT sooner than I usually would... And I wish I'd had a psion available for this one too... Actually, I think a better term would be "Freaky as all hell!"...

Reading through it now actually, Check your TG's I've just sent you an idea of mine.

Very Interesting thread Kraven, I'm impressed.

Of course. I like to get along well with everyone OCCly. Don't mistake Xirnium's IC utter loathing of Kraven for OCC dislike.

Apologies to Automagfreek for taking this of-topic though.
Sorry to give a late response, but thanks for telling me that Xirnium. To quote AMF's OOC thread during the Operation Hellfire saga:
Hell, I laugh my ass off most of the time while reading the IC diplomatic slandering. It's funny to see a crowd of guys who get along sling mud at eachother's character relentlessly.

Velkya, Can we just back peddle your post a little, its very... Final.

There is no way your aircraft would get over Kravonika without being spotted and their is no way your aircraft would get past unscathed with the ammount of Lead thats flying around, so can we back peddle a little and give me a chance to react to your incomming?

You've had almost a week to respond, they were approaching your coastline several posts ago.

In addition, anti-aircraft fire is meaningless when you are traveling at Mach 10 at nearly 90,000 feet. Even if you have advance warning, it's going to be nearly impossible to hit something at that altitude and speed with conventional SAMs and guns, and even if you had a rocket SAM of sorts, it still would be pretty much invunerable.

Don't worry, once the real waves come, your going to have lots of time to react to this attack.

You've had almost a week to respond, they were approaching your coastline several posts ago.

In addition, anti-aircraft fire is meaningless when you are traveling at Mach 10 at nearly 90,000 feet. Even if you have advance warning, it's going to be nearly impossible to hit something at that altitude and speed with conventional SAMs and guns, and even if you had a rocket SAM of sorts, it still would be pretty much invunerable.

Don't worry, once the real waves come, your going to have lots of time to react to this attack.

Mach 10? and yes there has been a week to respond, but your last post based on the Attack was them leaving your nation. which would have to be pretty impressive for my AA systems to hit you that far away :P

Remember he has ZSU's a landbased variant of your "invincible" CIWS system, I think a wall of bullets would very easily be able to bring down a few fighters.

OOC: Kraven's bio-weapon eats through the seals of NBC suits, rendering them large rubber coffins.

AMF has a doctrine that only if a nation uses WMDs against it's forces, it considers civilians fair game.

Correct.

Kahanistan, if anyone should understand this, I would have figured it would have been you. ;)

Mach 10? and yes there has been a week to respond, but your last post based on the Attack was them leaving your nation. which would have to be pretty impressive for my AA systems to hit you that far away :P

Yes, Mach 10, but only for a short dash, these aircraft are designed only to pentrate enemy airspace for a few minutes, they don't have nearly enough fuel for prolonged ventures at this speed. Once they have delivered the ordinance, they'll try to move out at Mach 3 back towards the sea, which is how fast their normal engines take them. Don't fret, you'll get a shot at them with any remaining operational AAA batteries.

AMF, would you require SEAD strikes on enemy AA positions?

If so, it's your lucky day.

I do understand, that doesn't mean my nation's leadership has to agree with it. Do you remember why Kahanistan and Kraven clashed in the first place? Even before they actually fought each other in Xirnium, Kahanistan was ideologically opposed to Kraven abuse of their own civilians. And Kahanistan will likely be sending an officer in the near future to train and arm the Kraven resistance,* which the Kahanistan Government sees as the only hope for a stable post-war government in Kraven, and which is probably suffering just as much as the general population.

And with millions of the civilians Kahanistan has fought for months to protect being killed by a nation that Kahanistan continues to hold a grudge with despite Dreadfire and Azrael realizing they had been fighting the wrong people in Kahanistan, you can understand why the leadership would be pissed off.

*Kraven resistance - guerrilla fighters in Kraven opposed to the totalitarian nature of the Kraven Government. Have been receiving smuggled arms, supplies, literature and medical assistance for months from Kahanistan, but only recently is Kahanistan ready to openly support the resistance.

Remember he has ZSU's a landbased variant of your "invincible" CIWS system, I think a wall of bullets would very easily be able to bring down a few fighters.

Thing is, no matter how "invincible" a gun system is, it can't hit targets at high altitude, which is where SAMs come in. And since these aircraft are traveling much faster than the SAMs, he'll have nearly no way to intercept them on the attack run. However, once clear of the mess, the aircraft's rockets fuel runs out, and the conventional engines kick back it, steadily slowing it to Mach 3 again, which makes going back into friendly territory an excellent idea, since the craft is vunerable to SAM and AtA fire again.

That is true. CIWS guns really arent very good anyway. During the Gulf War, a Phalanx CIWS failed to shoot down an Iraqi (ie. rubbishy old Soviet) missile that was fired at a group of US and British ships, and then a British Sea Dart missile (a weapons system much older than the Phalanx) shot it down in one, after the CIWS had wasted loads of time shooting at it. From what I've read, the US Navy hates the damn things, and is looking to replace them wholesale with the RAM system.

Mach 10 is just impossible though, with any MT plane.

If I had known that I may have taken Velkya up on the supposed effectiveness of his CIWS systems in another thread, regardless the point is moot as I don't see anymore of me V Velkya in the near future lol, Admiral Kukonois and his fanatics are brewing up their own schemes.

this is PMT I beleive, since I doubt Sardukar would even be contemplated as a concept in MT lol

Regardless of what happens Mach 10 is a little silly, how do your pilots survive the initial G force of sudden accelleration? I mean the concept is cool, and a good idea, im just wondering how they get round the initial force that at that rate would Kill them instantly, and probably force the blood in their bodies to burst cappillieries and possibly even veins or arteries..... hmmm a nice image that is,

Another thing, if they are flying at Mach 10, how do they track targets, and launch them considering they have probably passed my Nation in like 2 or 3 seconds??

Its a nice concept, but seems slighlty flawed. and my reasoning still stands, it was a very final post, Powergaming, Not Goddmodding.

You and Velkya will get on like a house on fire, I'm seeing that already.

I do wonder though, he's dropping EMP Bombs yet how come his own aircraft havent been knocked out, EMP weapons are not known for their lack of friendly fire

Im not too bothered about the bombs, however, OOC'ly Several EMP blasts in Kravonika, Would Severly Cripple My Forces.

I mean the Entire Command Relay would go down, Absolute Chaos would ensue, The Whole War machine would collapse. and AMF would be able to sweep into Kravonika pretty much unapposed as the Capitol Police wouldn't know what to do.

Might be an interesting concept for intervention...

You and Velkya will get on like a house on fire, I'm seeing that already.

I do wonder though, he's dropping EMP Bombs yet how come his own aircraft havent been knocked out, EMP weapons are not known for their lack of friendly fire

My aircraft are traveling quite fast and high, therefore out of the reach of the bombs, which "detonate" at low altitude to increase effectiveness. The pilots are only there to get the craft to it's destination, an AI system takes control of the release of the munitions. The target zones are preset, there is no need for guidence, the craft simply travels on a straight line, and releases the munitions at pre-detirmined times. The EMP bombs are "dumb", so to speak.

I'm bleeding edge PMT (i.e. 2050), and advanced flight suits have been invented that can take the "pain". Even so, the piloyd can only stand the G-Forces for so long, that's how they can dash so fast.

On the CICW subject, more effective CICW systems would have been developed by my timeline which allows for more accurate targeting. Even if they were'nt as accurate, the fact is that most NS players simply fire off thousands of missiles in a tight formation, which allows an effective CICW system to simply pour lead into the formation, which explains why my fleets can shoot down these missiles quite well. Even so, the Velkyan fleet acting in the whole rebel thing sustained heavy losses, about half the fleet was decimated, with 10,000 casualites.

But my ships fire off it's own anti-missile missiles before even thinking about using the CICW, so there you go.

Anyhow, Kraven, I'll edit my post to allow you to preform some type of retaliation, if you want that.

My aircraft are traveling quite fast and high, therefore out of the reach of the bombs, which "detonate" at low altitude to increase effectiveness. The pilots are only there to get the craft to it's destination, an AI system takes control of the release of the munitions. The target zones are preset, there is no need for guidence, the craft simply travels on a straight line, and releases the munitions at pre-detirmined times. The EMP bombs are "dumb", so to speak.

I'm bleeding edge PMT (i.e. 2050), and advanced flight suits have been invented that can take the "pain". Even so, the piloyd can only stand the G-Forces for so long, that's how they can dash so fast.

On the CICW subject, more effective CICW systems would have been developed by my timeline which allows for more accurate targeting. Even if they were'nt as accurate, the fact is that most NS players simply fire off thousands of missiles in a tight formation, which allows an effective CICW system to simply pour lead into the formation, which explains why my fleets can shoot down these missiles quite well. Even so, the Velkyan fleet acting in the whole rebel thing sustained heavy losses, about half the fleet was decimated, with 10,000 casualites.

But my ships fire off it's own anti-missile missiles before even thinking about using the CICW, so there you go.

Anyhow, Kraven, I'll edit my post to allow you to preform some type of retaliation, if you want that.

Thank you, its not godmodding, but its definatly powergaming, i mean turning up and dropping the bombs in the same post, Dwedelfia Prime did that in the First war when i sent up some Attack Vtols, as soon as they appeared they dropped the bombs, Its not god modding its just very powergamey

It might be interesting to turn the infiltration team into a take over team, since that much EMP will have damaged the equipment on the transports, not enough to wreck them since enough EMP will definetly get through even the formiddable sheilding my equipment sports, good thing the infiltration team was equipped with the translators should they need to talk to capitol police.

Still Velkya Kraven would have propably detected you, and his ZSU's will be at least as effective as your systems, an Mach 10 won't exactly do much against a wall of lead. For the other issue it is powergamish to presume how someone fires there missiles, you should ask for clarification, since their are advantages and disadvantages to both, particularly when said CICW's will still have been preoccupied with other concerns.

It might be interesting to turn the infiltration team into a take over team, since that much EMP will have damaged the equipment on the transports, not enough to wreck them since enough EMP will definetly get through even the formiddable sheilding my equipment sports, good thing the infiltration team was equipped with the translators should they need to talk to capitol police.

Still Velkya Kraven would have propably detected you, and his ZSU's will be at least as effective as your systems, an Mach 10 won't exactly do much against a wall of lead. For the other issue it is powergamish to presume how someone fires there missiles, you should ask for clarification, since their are advantages and disadvantages to both, particularly when said CICW's will still have been preoccupied with other concerns.

CICW and anti-aircraft fire are two different systems.

AAA is a gun system designed to shoot down aircraft at low to high altitudes.

CICW is a gun/radar/missile system designed to shoot down missiles and very low flying aircraft.

Let me just tell you this, the aircraft may not be effected, but the EMP bombs themselves can be shot down.

In addition, the aircraft are flying quite high, and therefore, immune to AAA. SAMs can be fired once the rocket stage has ended and the aicraft has slowed. Turning at Mach 10 is immpossible, that's why my craft are flying in linear paths.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=459591

Velkya you seem to be neglecting what Kraven's AA system composes of, one of which are ZSU's essentially mounted CICW's or whatever they're called, from previous experience these things create a wall of lead, I imagine a bullet ripping through something going at Mach 10 would be quite deadly, lethal and fatal comes to mind.

I've noticed that thread yes Kraven, however though until something weird happens that the International community will notice happens there is nothing we can ICly do, none of us at last check opperate a bunch of soothsayers.:p

You also negelect that The Corporation doesn't have an Airforce to speak of, so our AA systems are going to be able to deal with any Aircraft that come over Kravonika,

Concremo has an airforce, but has yet to be scrambled, as the AA Systems dealing with AMF aircraft are doing an ample job at the moment,

As for the ZSU's they are based on the cannons of the CIWCS, but are designed to fight long range targets as well as close range, the velocity at which the bullets are fired is high, allowing the bullets to reach long ranges, all beit inaccurate, the sheer amount of lead that can be placed into the sky is going to be dangerous, especialy all ready with the amount of lead thats already there.

But either way its all irrelevant, as you've already agreed to allow me to react to your attack, which im gratefull for, im just clearing up the ZSU argument.

Velkya you seem to be neglecting what Kraven's AA system composes of, one of which are ZSU's essentially mounted CICW's or whatever they're called, from previous experience these things create a wall of lead, I imagine a bullet ripping through something going at Mach 10 would be quite deadly, lethal and fatal comes to mind.

I've noticed that thread yes Kraven, however though until something weird happens that the International community will notice happens there is nothing we can ICly do, none of us at last check opperate a bunch of soothsayers.:p

Lol, Its all part of the Master plan

Actually a troupe of Soothsayers could have merit in developing the Diri E I G Ignen a bit *Cackles at the thought of a sacrifice to Maljuras*

You could say I operate something akin to Soothsayers, except in this case it is a Great Archive with a section devoted to the Prophecies of the Great Prophetess Viginias, I usually only use it as a plot device as an Archive with hauntigly accurate predictions that date from the year 4,500 BC to the year 3,500 AD would propably be decried by many as rampant godmod. Despite the fact that most entires are vague or cryptic usually both, making it's use as a source of omnipotence somewhat limited, it would only take on anomoly in Axis Nova to send Alarm Bells ringing, Especially as "A Kraven being shall arise anew from the new death of the light."

Velkya you seem to be neglecting what Kraven's AA system composes of, one of which are ZSU's essentially mounted CICW's or whatever they're called, from previous experience these things create a wall of lead, I imagine a bullet ripping through something going at Mach 10 would be quite deadly, lethal and fatal comes to mind.

I've noticed that thread yes Kraven, however though until something weird happens that the International community will notice happens there is nothing we can ICly do, none of us at last check opperate a bunch of soothsayers.:p

What, you guys won't be coming after me due to me being a key member of the Consortium? =p

yeah right as if that worried us, besides the Consortium is an ally of ours, for the moment at least, after all AMF V TKC, I'd say it's a Consortium Civil War.

Also none of us will be comming after you on account none of us ICly know about Father's Survival let alone his presence in your nation.

The ZSU's shells cannot reach the high altitude that Velkya's planes are flying at, let alone actually be able to turn the turret as the plane flys over fast enough to try to hit it.

yeah right as if that worried us, besides the Consortium is an ally of ours, for the moment at least, after all AMF V TKC, I'd say it's a Consortium Civil War.

Also none of us will be comming after you on account none of us ICly know about Father's Survival let alone his presence in your nation.

I was mostly referring to Velkya and company.

ICly, I'm neither your friend nor overt foe.

ICly, I'm neither your friend nor overt foe.

Given your past statements and actions IC I rather doubt this :/

I've got bigger fish to fry, is that better? :p

Green Sun has declared war on the Kraven Corporation for directly endangering Green Sun royals, Green Sun property, Green Sun military personell, and making a hostile act against a facility in which diplomatic relations are being conducted. They attacked the Black Hive in Psyker Bearzerkers with my Royals in it and it was known that they were in teh building, which is considered an act against them and therefore an act of war against us. I plan to push Kraven out of Psyker Bearzerkers and then join AMF and his allies against KC.

Guys.......

Kraven and myself have been wanting to keep this RP a 1 on 1. But then Velkya jumped in, and we both sort of looked the other way. But no more, this was originally supposed to be between only me and Kraven.

If you guys want to fight Kraven, then talk it over with him and do it in a different thread.

Guys.......

Kraven and myself have been wanting to keep this RP a 1 on 1. But then Velkya jumped in, and we both sort of looked the other way. But no more, this was originally supposed to be between only me and Kraven.

If you guys want to fight Kraven, then talk it over with him and do it in a different thread.

Yes it has gotten out of hand, There are other threads revolving around the war that people can join in, Also Kraven has other assets that you can attack if you want

Concremo
Numonica

theres a Garrison in Psycher Bearzerkers thats exterminating the populace

there are also terrorists operating in Xirnium, he could do with some help tracking them down, Random murders, and a Police station has been exterminated.

although things are going to build up to larger targets

AMF: Just so you know, the Kahanistan pilots who attacked Freekish forces are just a few extremists. While I don't want another war, I figured ICly it would be unrealistic for out of hundreds of conscript pilots that a few dozen of them WOULDN'T take the chance to attack Freekish troops out of revenge during the confusion. These are people who lost everything, they haven't forgiven AMF just because their government threw in the towel. I have a plan in mind for after this war that should go a long way towards ending the animosity that many Kahanistan citizens still have toward AMF, and the hostility that no doubt exists among many Freeks.

Hey Kraven, Just to let you know I will be partaking in the conflict along AMF's side. However outta curiousity. Will you leave NS if you get beaten? Like Facist White States did

I'm planning on attacking Concremo with an armored force while a much larger mechanized infantry force hits the Kravonikan slums from the northwest. My only objective is to evacuate the rebel fighters and their families before the SHTF, then concentrate on Concremo. If it's all right with you, KC, I'll make a thread about the Concremo operation.

Hey Kraven, Just to let you know I will be partaking in the conflict along AMF's side. However outta curiousity. Will you leave NS if you get beaten? Like Facist White States did

Kraven is a hell of a better RPer than FWS (who was a racsist idiot), so I'd think not.

To all nations siding with Automagfreek and ISAF, AMF probably doesn't want anymore takers than Velkya (and the Kahanistani recruits), so you might want to partake in the Concremo invasion.

Kraven and myself wanted this to be strictly 1 on 1 from the beginning. We won't be allowing anyone else to jump in this RP.

Hey Kraven, Just to let you know I will be partaking in the conflict along AMF's side. However outta curiousity. Will you leave NS if you get beaten? Like Facist White States did

No, I certainly won't be, I have so many contingency plans its silly.

Once My nation is captured you'll see a lot of different Roleplays from me.

I'll fight Kraven on different fronts, then, guys. Just thought you ought to know you have another ally, AMF.

I'll fight Kraven on different fronts, then, guys. Just thought you ought to know you have another ally, AMF.


Thanks, though I really don't need the help.

Theres also my forces, which you never picked up ICly.

Theres also my forces, which you never picked up ICly.

I've been away for the holidays, so I apologize for not getting a post up. I didn't get around to even sitting down at my computer until late last night.

Why, AMF and THL, a happy Festivus to you!

New post is up.

New post is up.

Will be having a Reply up later tonight

And in turn, your reply is up.

And in turn, your reply is up.

MSN?, I need to discuss something with you

I see you have the secret IC post up, but there's still the matter of my last attack/counter attack.

I see you have the secret IC post up, but there's still the matter of my last attack/counter attack.

Yes, I just wanted to get that part up while it was fresh in my mind, I'll get on with it shortly

ooc: One thing I'm wondering Kraven, is how anything in firing range of your city is still standing. You've had a monstrous amount of fire thrown at you since the war with AMF started. He's got control of the air and sea, and has been pretty much shelling you and hitting you with missiles nonstop.

And the attack by the B52 Stratofortresses should have wiped the entire battlefield. Have you sever seen what just 1 B52 can do? Now imagine dozens of them....

All in all it's a good war, but in light of your circumstances and what has been thrown at you, you're being sort of unreasonable.

All in all it's a good war, but in light of your circumstances and what has been thrown at you, you're being sort of unreasonable.I don't know if I'd include the words "sort of" in that statement. Considering who your opponent is, it's a wonder why your nation isn't some crater in the ground.

ooc: One thing I'm wondering Kraven, is how anything in firing range of your city is still standing. You've had a monstrous amount of fire thrown at you since the war with AMF started. He's got control of the air and sea, and has been pretty much shelling you and hitting you with missiles nonstop.

And the attack by the B52 Stratofortresses should have wiped the entire battlefield. Have you sever seen what just 1 B52 can do? Now imagine dozens of them....

All in all it's a good war, but in light of your circumstances and what has been thrown at you, you're being sort of unreasonable.

The total losses i have taken will be made in a post at the end of the Role play, I like to describe whats happened but not clog the thread up in paragraphs of whats been decimated, i state that the attack has been recognised then will detail all thats been lost.

I don't know if I'd include the words "sort of" in that statement. Considering who your opponent is, it's a wonder why your nation isn't some crater in the ground.

If automagfreek has any problems with how I am performing in the roleplay, he would address me directly, He already has when I forgot to include his B-52 attack, so I don't see any reason why he wouldn't if he thought I was being unreasonable.

I think key phrases like part of the Internal Titrete wall collapsed, sending rubble rolling into the Corrider and Every weapon and Every munition moved it closer to being Compromised and finally The Origonal battalion that had Started the Defense was all most wiped out apart from a spelling mistake it's pretty plain that he's taken serious damage, I don't think it will be long until what your claiming what Kravonika should look like becomes what Kravonika actually loks like.

If automagfreek has any problems with how I am performing in the roleplay, he would address me directly, He already has when I forgot to include his B-52 attack, so I don't see any reason why he wouldn't if he thought I was being unreasonable.

ooc: That's not the point, the point is that you've been hit harder than most nations ever have, and still you have AMF at your gates. From a real world perspective, the southern part of your city should be a wasteland right now, looking worse than Berlin at the end of WW2.

It shouldn't take AMF to tell you that this is unreasonable.

ooc: That's not the point, the point is that you've been hit harder than most nations ever have, and still you have AMF at your gates. From a real world perspective, the southern part of your city should be a wasteland right now, looking worse than Berlin at the end of WW2.

It shouldn't take AMF to tell you that this is unreasonable.

The Problem is, It is looking like a waste land from berlin, The Forward bunkers and Trench systems have been obliterated, the Capitol Police are fighting from Craters and whatever trenches are left, The Capitol Police are setting up machine guns in the Ruins of Collapsed Bunkers, The Only thing that is stopping him from sweeping into the city is the massive Citadel wall. I am pouring in re-inforcments, because the Citadel is not only a massive Wall, it is all so a Garrison, and holds 8 battalions of Capitol Police inside.

Once AMF breaches the Southern Citadel wall, I will be unable to bring in any re-inforcments because the Collapsing rubble will block the Underground Tunnels, the only reason why I am holding him at these shores is because of the Citadel Wall.

I was under the impression the Citadel was at the heart of Kravonika and it's walls did not go around the entire city, I envisioned it as a Spire of Spite, a Tower of Terror a Divine Omen of Doom.

I was under the impression the Citadel was at the heart of Kravonika and it's walls did not go around the entire city, I envisioned it as a Spire of Spite, a Tower of Terror a Divine Omen of Doom.

The Citadel is the Defensive wall, it rings Kravonika, The Imperial Palace is that Spire of Spite.. the Tower of Terror... A Divine Omen Of doom... The Seat of the High Command... It Over looks Kravonika and has 3 Spires, two Either side of the Central tower are half a mile High, and the Central one is 1 and a half miles high...

The forums seem to be better now, so whenever you get a chance.

The forums seem to be better now, so whenever you get a chance.

Yes, Will have a post up tomorow, Forums have been iffy and when there up im usualy asleep.

I'm starting the Concremo invasion thread, if Gyrobot, Kahanistan, or THL would commit troops to it.

Kahanistan's tied down dealing with the Pwnage / Doom fleets beating on their troops. They won't be able to help in the invasion of Concremo until I can find some way of extricating my forces.

Besides, the view in Kahanistan is that the Concremians should be incited to revolt against Kraven, rather than invaded.

Meh, they were a ally during the invasion of Xirnium and now are a satellite state of Kraven. It'll be tough, Concermo was like TKC even before occupation, so I doubt the power-that-were would want a democracy. Invasion is our only realistic option.

Besides, I enjoy fighting Kraven, he's a fairly good tactician.

Velkya, pay attention to your AIM :P

It would be more interesting to see you 2 go at it one on one instead of one dogpiling on the other.

Here's the Concremo invasion thread, it's invite only.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=464602

I'd like to join, and I've sent Kraven a TG asking for permission. I suppose if Kahanistan's General Vallens wanted to ask Prince Drake for a favor. (They met during the evacuation of their city) Prince Drake could then address my parliment and declare war.

My military uses primarly airships, and so I'd be able to assist with logistics and heavy air support. I'd be even more effective when working with the large air foces of Velkya, because I wouldn't have to worry so much about fighter plans hitting my fireships.

Time to cross swords, Kraven..

We might want to see if Kraven has any allies remaining before accepting too many people into the Concremo invasion...I'd rather not dogpile him.

The Citadel wall became visably weaker as the weapon went to work, and the Leman Russ battle tanks were smashed apart as the blast of the weapon reached them, only the larger Emperor Class's remained...

Rubble cascaded down from The Citadel blocking off entrances and tunnel networks... The Remaining Capitol Police, the few pockets of resistance left, were cut off from the Citadel now

Don't forget that I've had 2 Sentinel class SD's firing 30" AP and HE shells at the Citadel walls for what would be hours. Each Sentinel class has 3 forward mounts (with 3, 30" guns per mount) and 2 aft mounts (with 3, 25" rail drivers per mount). Since there are two SD's present, that means that there are 18 shells and 12 rail rounds total per volley.

Things have changed in Kahanistan. They're at war with two major powers right on their doorstep (Kahanistan never seems to get any peace, there are too many dictators in the world) and their policy toward AMF is one of watchful deterrence.

As for General Valens, he's Minister of Defense now, the last Minister of Defense being MIA after the Freekish invasion, and he's at a meeting in St. Fedski. (Hopefully, that'll get settled soon, it's been going pretty slow.)

That said, he does have a computer at the meeting, and it does have breaks, but the more appropriate Kahanistan official to contact with regards to relations would be the Kahanistan Minister of Foreign Affairs, Ms. Margaret Delray. She, too, is abroad, but it's a matter of receiving a message, printing off a reply, signing it, scanning it as an attachment, and sending it to an underling at the Ministry of Foreign Affairs office, who prints off a copy and faxes it to the Kahanistan Ambassador in Fourhearts.

Though Concremo is a puppet of TKC, it is still recognized as a nation in the international community (at least, AMF recognizes it as a nation). The Concremo air force and navy have engaged AMF forces in the north and south, and their origins have been traced back to their respective state.

As a result, Damien views these strikes as a declaration of war. Therefore, Automagfreek forces will assist in the liberation of Concremo. HOWEVER, AMF will play a very limited role in this engagement, seeing as our main objective is destroying Kraven.

Warchief Zander is being sent to capture and seal off the border between Kraven and Concremo, preventing troops or supplies from flowing between the two. The rest of the Concremo invasion, however, is up to the allied nations.

message from Kraven:-

Having net problems, will try to get back online ASAP.

He just wanted me to post this for him so you people knew.

Don't forget that I've had 2 Sentinel class SD's firing 30" AP and HE shells at the Citadel walls for what would be hours. Each Sentinel class has 3 forward mounts (with 3, 30" guns per mount) and 2 aft mounts (with 3, 25" rail drivers per mount). Since there are two SD's present, that means that there are 18 shells and 12 rail rounds total per volley.

Message from Kraven:

Sorry, I didn't make it clear enough due to forum problems, and awkward work times, but pretty much the Citadel wall where the MOAB went off has been breached, Sentinal forces can now flow into the Inner workings of the Citadel

Bump So KC Conflict related messages can see the above messages ^^

-bump-

I've gotten the greenlight. I was just throwing that out there for a good IC reason to get involved. For the moment I'll just offer my three hosptial ships (For Humanitarian Purposes) and Kraven can blow it out of the air with their air defences. (It's an airship) This will boil our blood so much that Prince Drake and his fleet will come riding in to assist. Would that work?

agreeable to me, fourhearts, but you'll have to wait until the ISAF actually lands though.

For Emancipation, what are your guys's fleet compisitions? Meaning, how of what do you have?

You like, Macabees? :p Seeing as most of the designs are yours...


Fleet Group I: 321 ships
Flagship: WSS Na'ib - Zealous Class Super-Dreadnaught
40 "Elusive" class Battleship
5 "Argentine" class Super-Dreadnaught Hunter-Killer
25 "Paramount" class Air Defense Vessel
70 CLN-68 "Morsky-Orol" Class Light Cruiser
75 "Ilium" class Missile Destroyers
55 "Hannibal" Class Escort Destroyer
10 "Qu'Ran" class Aircraft Carriers
5 "Ultra" class Battlecarriers
40 Cartegena Class-SSN

The Hannibal and Qu'ran are my own design:
Hannibal Class Escort Destroyer
Type: Single-hull
Length: 180m
Beam: 18m
Draft: 18m
Power Plant: 1 Pebblebed Nuclear reactor
Displacement: 12,000 tons
Speed: 30 knots
Crew: 15 officers, 300 enlisted
Armament:
1x WHA-17 "Viking" Attack Helicopter
2x SAM Battery [100 rounds]
4x SSM Battery [75 rounds]
2x Triple ASW Torpedo Tube at 500mm
2x 15" ETC Main Gun
2x 30mm CIWS

Qu'Ran Class Supercarrier
Type: Double-hull
Length: 666m
Beam: 42m
Power plant: 2 Pebblebed Nuclear Reactors
Displacement: 225,000 tons
Speed: 20-25 knots
Aircraft: 150
Ship's Company: 4,000
Air Wing: 4,800
Cost: $10 billion USD
Armaments: 25x 30mm CIWS
20x SAM Batteries

New post is up, Kraven.

Once my hosptial ships are attacked Fourhearts will bring the following

Airship Fleet One

(1) Command Ship Independence - AWACS Capable ship that coordinates the movements of the Fleet

(12) Fireship A Type - Airships that carries guided anti-aircraft missiles

(24) Fireship B Type - Airship that carries Air-to-Ground Missiles

(6) Fireship C Type - Airship that carries 4 Cruise Missiles/6 Daisy Cutter Missiles

(6) Fireship D Type - Airship that carries torpedos, anti-ship missiles

(6) Wolf Class - Small Airship Hybrid that has several 30mm emplacements

(48) Supply Ships

(3) Naval Carrier - Naval Carrier that carries the Fleet's fighter escort

The High Seas Fleet

4x Velkya Class Super Dreadnoughts
50x Pathfinder Class Dreadnoughts
100x Red Square Arsenal ships
20x Eagle Class Super Aircraft Carriers
120x Atlantis II Class Cruisers
120x Quentin II Guided Missile Cruisers
140x Jalik II Class Destroyers
80x Javelin Fleet Air Defense Ships
60x Hunter SSN
20x Archer III SSBM
Air Wing of each carrier in High Seas Fleet:
Velkya SD Airwing
70x MR-3 Trinity Multirole Fighter
Eagle CVN
80x ISF-2N Sea Valkyrie Fighters
50x MR-4 Ixiom Naval Strike Fighter
10x EW-3 AWACS aircraft
30x AV-13N Sea Luna Attack VTOL
20x DT-4 Pelican Dropships
10x DC-3 Lodestar Heavy-Lift Dropships
12x YISF-6 Longsword Fighters

1st/2nd QRF (That's 2 fleets each comprised of the following ships)

1x Kestrel Ultra Carrier
10x Gigantor Dreadnoughts
40x FAD Ships
40x Jalik II Destroyers
30x Atlantis II Class Cruisers
30x Quentin II Guided Missile Cruisers
2x Hunter SSN
Kestrel Ultra Carrier Airwing:
500x ISF-2 Sea Valkyrie Fighter
200x MR-4 Naval Strike Fighter
50x EW-3 AWACS Aircraft
100x AV-13 Sea Luna Attack VTOL
200x DT-4 Pelican Dropships
12x YISF-6 Longsword Fighter

There may be some errors, but that amounts to about 1,110 ships, 100 of which are "capital ships", and the remaining are cruisers, destroyers, submarines, FAD, support ships, etc. Also, a fleet of 2,000 armed assault (troop) ships are along for the ride, carrying the various armored, marine, and infantry divisions that Velkya has commited.

A response will come no later than Monday; I've been busy all weekend.

Mac, Dreadnoughts for me are in the 300m to 400m size range, just bigger battleships, essentially.

On to my OOC arguements.

In the sky, the GF-11 Archers continued their work on the most effective range finding in the battle to date, since it actually made sense. Because the system was not fully autonomous, any attempt by Velkya 'to take over them' was parried, and they continued in the service of the fleet.

Hmmm...what happened to my fighter's attack on those UAVs? The very fact that they are not autonomous (therefore controlled by an outside source) is how I'm able to mimick your control signals and "get them to my side". Also, what type of range-finding are you using?

Furthermore, it had seemed that the Velkyan engineers had no sense of physics, as their missiles, hitting velocities of over Mach 4, attempted to make that rediculous range, sea-skimming; of course, they either ran out of fuel in midflight and plummetted into the ocean, or for the most part, they disintigrated - sea-skimming at 'near hypersonic' velocity was almost as insane as jumping off the top of a skyscraper.

While I don't mind with you RPing a few my missiles as hitting an odd wave or surge and being destroyed, RPing them running out of fuel is simply ludicrious. Fix it.

was the same for their 'infra-red' guidance for their shells - it was utterly rediculous. The laser would merely defract and lose the energy required to get a clean calculation on the ship; in that mess, most of the Velkyan shells simply missed, while others didn't hit hard enough to make a very big impact on the larger shipping, although several escort ships were crippled.

IR AND GPS, get it right. Shells use both to ensure an accurate hit on target.

Again, the loud noises of torpedoes being dropped where heard, but so was the noise of them fizzling out, halfway between their targets and their source.

Long-range, big torpedoes. Same as the missiles, I think it's a bit bogus that you can declare my torpedoes have run out of fuel in mid cruise.

Mac, Dreadnoughts for me are in the 300m to 400m size range, just bigger battleships, essentially.

On to my OOC arguements.


That's still an insane number of dreadnoughts. I assume you have even more; I really don't know how many total you have; but the maintenance costs should up the hizzle. Again, I really don't care for the sake of this RP, but it is a terribly high amount. I have... 12, at the most, superdreadnoughts, and maybe around forty Elusives, perhaps more - but I have a 47 trillion dollar defense budget.


Hmmm...what happened to my fighter's attack on those UAVs? The very fact that they are not autonomous (therefore controlled by an outside source) is how I'm able to mimick your control signals and "get them to my side". Also, what type of range-finding are you using?


I didn't see that. But how do your fighters even know they're there? That's the idea behind radar transparent; especially since they're not right up on your fleet - they are smaller, more tactical, AWACS craft. Beyond that, how are you mimicking my control signals? Why wouldn't I just be able to mimick them back, even if the idea was sound? I really don't understand the tactic; they're constrolled through an electromagnetic frequency; and I wouldn't know how you would be able to know which frequency was in use.


Also, what type of range-finding are you using?


I'm using my UAVs for major range finding.


While I don't mind with you RPing a few my missiles as hitting an odd wave or surge and being destroyed, RPing them running out of fuel is simply ludicrious. Fix it.


No, it's really not. You're sea skimming two hundred nautical miles at near hypersonic velocities. That is ludicrous. First of all, the missiles would probably disintigrate; second of all, you would need a missile the size of an ICBM to be able to give you enough fuel to provide that much thrust, for that much range, at such a low altitude [where, keep in mind, you're expecting much more resistance in terms of force]. It's hard for an anti-shipping missiles, not the size of a cruise missile, to get that range at standard altitudes, imagine it for a full sea-skimming missile. It's simply not realistic.


IR AND GPS, get it right. Shells use both to ensure an accurate hit on target.


So? Despite that, you're still not guaranteed a 100% hit on a target.


Long-range, big torpedoes. Same as the missiles, I think it's a bit bogus that you can declare my torpedoes have run out of fuel in mid cruise.


How big? And how fast? It's not bogus; it's bogus to claim a torpedo with that range. I mean, if this is as big as a cruise missile, then that's fine, because that's rediculously huge, and it loses any of the advantages a torpedo may have, but that's fine.

Oh great once again we descend into OOC Arguing, I'm on the side of Mac since he, being the resident design expert has a far better grasp on the RL physics and design limitations, remember not everything is about winning Velkya, sometimes loosing is in fact far better than winning, it builds story and creates character.

I really have no problems with some designs; such as Whyatica's defense; obviously, I think that there were some incorrect parts, but whatever. It's just when these things get beyond reality, when it gets to me. Like, for example, Mach 10 bombers.

Nova, how many times have you lost? I'm sorry if this comes over as sarcastic and cruel, but most of the RPers who says that winning isn't everything hardly ever loses.

That's still an insane number of dreadnoughts. I assume you have even more; I really don't know how many total you have; but the maintenance costs should up the hizzle. Again, I really don't care for the sake of this RP, but it is a terribly high amount. I have... 12, at the most, superdreadnoughts, and maybe around forty Elusives, perhaps more - but I have a 47 trillion dollar defense budget.

Dreadnought in my naval terms is a battleship, leave it at that.

I didn't see that. But how do your fighters even know they're there? That's the idea behind radar transparent; especially since they're not right up on your fleet - they are smaller, more tactical, AWACS craft. Beyond that, how are you mimicking my control signals? Why wouldn't I just be able to mimick them back, even if the idea was sound? I really don't understand the tactic; they're constrolled through an electromagnetic frequency; and I wouldn't know how you would be able to know which frequency was in use.

AWACs make pretty big active RADAR impressions, from what I've gathered, I could find them and attack them with missiles.

So? Despite that, you're still not guaranteed a 100% hit on a target.

Yes, I know that. No shell, whether fired from an ETC gun, rail driver, or good ol' powder charge will ever be 100% accurate. Still, a few losses from it would be nice.

How big? And how fast? It's not bogus; it's bogus to claim a torpedo with that range. I mean, if this is as big as a cruise missile, then that's fine, because that's rediculously huge, and it loses any of the advantages a torpedo may have, but that's fine.

Of course it's big, it's supposed to be a skirmishing design, not a sure-fire kill weapon. Most of the weapons I'm releasing right now are to inflict as many enemy casualties as possible before I close with your fleet.

Actually I could consider Admiral Kukonois former sparring with you as a loss, also if you comprare how many military RP's I've been in to how many I've won you'll find it's only 1 or 2 out of 4, I am not counting the Xirnium war battle as a win or a loss as Kraven was withdrawing and did not send in his Sardukar which would have changed the face of the battle.

When Admiral Kukonois last attacked you and myself at Xirnium, my fleet came off decidedly worse for wear having been attacked by both Xharn and Kukonian forces, leaving a very haggard force remaining, if Xharn hadn't retreated when he had I would have more than likely lost.

You are right BTW it is comming across as Sarcrastic and cruel but it's also comming across as arrogant as well, I could make a list of predictions over issues that you will bring up over the course of the RP and quite unhappily see practically all of them be fufilled, and I say unhappily because I do not WANT to be proven right on such a list, I'd rather you didn't ooc argue as much because the person your RPing against has a better grasp of things than you, Mac is right in this case you are not, accept it instead of wasting time.

What happened in the First Kraven War OOC Thread, WILL NOT HAPPEN HERE,

With that said, This Ends before it gets started....

AWACs make pretty big active RADAR impressions, from what I've gathered, I could find them and attack them with missiles.


Right, an AWACS is a pretty huge aircraft with a huge radome; this is, again, a UAV - and radar transparent at that, flying high - acting as a blue-green range finder, as opposed to having it on the ship.


Yes, I know that. No shell, whether fired from an ETC gun, rail driver, or good ol' powder charge will ever be 100% accurate. Still, a few losses from it would be nice.


From a range of two hundred nautical miles, you would have to get quite a few hits on a ship to ensure a kill, unless you hit a vital part of the ship on the first hit - meaning, the reactor in the center. I'll assume that I lost a few turrets, but nothing like dozens of kills; tack on another three destroyers lost, if you really want; notice on how my shelling I specified that I wasn't looking for a kill, because I know it's not going to happen.


Of course it's big, it's supposed to be a skirmishing design, not a sure-fire kill weapon. Most of the weapons I'm releasing right now are to inflict as many enemy casualties as possible before I close with your fleet.


Ok? How big? That's the question. How are you firing these torpedoes? Out of what? Anything bigger than 1000mm has to be fired out of your VLS tubes, which has already been filled with missiles.


What happened in the First Kraven War OOC Thread, WILL NOT HAPPEN HERE,

With that said, This Ends before it gets started..


It kind of has to, because I'm not RPing with what's physically impossible. It's best to clear up any technological questions before it gets really bad. Or else I'm going to start to do the physicall impossible and introduce Mach 12 sea-skimming missiles.

Let's try to speed things up. This is starting to get boring, because I feel like I'm posting the same shit over and over again. I keep getting the impression that your southern front is still as strong as it was when we first started, regardless of the fact that I've spent enough ordnance to turn probably ALL of New York City to rubble.

Hurry up and collapse already, Kraven, so that we can get on to dealing with Father infesting my nation. I don't want my PMT stuff to be in limbo forever :(

Let's try to speed things up. This is starting to get boring, because I feel like I'm posting the same shit over and over again. I keep getting the impression that your southern front is still as strong as it was when we first started, regardless of the fact that I've spent enough ordnance to turn probably ALL of New York City to rubble.


It has literaly been trashed, What units remain are of the last Sturmpanzer battalion (Daubed in Urban cammo fatigues) in the city, the rest have been sent up to deal with Dreadfire, the Artillery that are within the city are from the first 3 battalions that faced against Vidimir. (They were held in reserve)

Ive only just started to bring out the Panzergrenadiers, and with your forces, air support and artillery, Deploying the Sardaukar is simply a pointless gesture, The City will fall very quickly now that your in it, because while the citizens are rioting the entire Command Network is in Chaos, units that no longer exist are being sent to deal with Riots that are roaming unchecked

Like I said, I've missed some things out from my last post. But i've been at college the last few days and havn't found the time to get the changes done.

Ok, I wasn't sure just how much damage i did. Thanks for clearing up.

The AMF/Kraven war is now over. Here are some conclusion threads:

Kraven's: http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=466933

Automagfreek's: http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=466944

I've been down with a pretty bad case of the flu, I haven't gotten any chance to make a decent (and coherent) post for the majority of the week, expect a response to Mac's and Whyatica's attacks by either Monday or Tuesday.

Whyatica's fleet left - I assumed mine did to. Kraven surrendered.

Velkya still needs to react to a) The attacks on his fleet and b) Our fleets withdrawing.

Whyatica's fleet left - I assumed mine did to. Kraven surrendered.

Yes, as of Yesterday Afternoon, 3:30pm Panzeroberst Lorn (The Coward) Surrendered to Automagfreek in a bid to escape the Noose, All Kraven Forces stood down and all none Capitol Police forces are returning to their homes, Kraven has been Defeated, Concremo is becomming a Democracy and so is Kraven, Kraven proper will soon becalled Slovania its origonal name before the KC took over...

Rejoice people... Freedom has been Victorious

Velkya still needs to react to a) The attacks on his fleet and b) Our fleets withdrawing.

I'll have a post up soon, the painkillers are kicking in.

Rejoice people... Freedom has been Victorious

*Pops champagne bottle*

This war has been going on since October. It's kinda sad that it's over, huh?

*Pops champagne bottle*

This war has been going on since October. It's kinda sad that it's over, huh?

*sinister laughing*

Its..... Far..... From over...

I'm still around, and partially Kravenized..

What happens next for me depends on who wins my elections (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=466998) though...

This is only the beginning. Don't forget that Father flew the coop and has had control of my government and military for months now.

Kraven...Father will be Neo's, along with Chairman Stryker, corporatist scum!

Bah! Humbug!

Did you really think it would be over that easily? ;)

No, just the war.

The War is over, As far as everyone is Concerned, Kraven is Dead.