NationStates Jolt Archive

A discussion with Silversky in his novabombs thread triggerd me to think of this...

Is it OR should it be considerd badform to reverse engineer someone elses technology if you roleplay it fairly?

Of course to answer this question their are several aspects we have to take into consideration:

1: Does the weapon have any anti-tamper mechanisms?
2: What if the weapon is copyrighted?
3: Should you have the permission of whoevers weapon it is to roleplay this?
4: What would be the consequences of reverse engineering the weapon?

<their may be many more which i cannot think of that maybe you can come up with and argue across>

1: Ok, so if the weapon has anti tamper mechanisms you are going to have to think about how to get around them and of course there is no way you could feasibly get around it on the first few attempts. This would require a lot of roleplaying over several posts maybe even pages before you can even think about begining reverse engineering. (there may be several anti-tamper mechanisms)

It would also take several months/years to be able to find out enough about the weapon to build your own version anyway dependant on your economy, education budget and type of facilities you have.

2: If the weapon is copyrighted, there could be several problems caused if someone rop's reverse engineering the weapon to produce it themselves since, it would be in breach of copyright. [I do not consider anything copyrighted in NSII unless it is listed in the copyright thread. <subnote: does that still exist?>] However if they did this, could the breach of coyright not be rp'd through international law courts, and international trade embargos etc??

3:I consider this a grey area. This is probably what would differenciate reverse engineering a weapon with permission from doing it without permission. Because with permission of the owner it could never be considerd badform.

However, do RL nations that buy some weapons of the US/UK/Russia ever not attempt to reverse engineer weapons. Im sure some countries have in the past and without permission. I guess you either consider this badform or come up with someway of rp'ing sanctions etc as above.

4:Ive coverd this slightly before but now I shall go into more detail. What could a country do to another country (nation) that has reverse engineerd one of its weapons or vehicles etc? Id think at the very least trade sanctions and the like would be set down. What about warning other store owners of the nations actions? orf maybe if the weapon was powerful enough, war?

There are so many ways you could get rp's out of reverse engineering other nations weapons (IF they have sold them to you) taht i think that it shouldnt be considerd badform. What are your views?

Well, if you get permission to use someone's technology or develop your own similar to it and the other player doesn't have a problem with your doing it, it can be very interesting to RP the development of your own weapon based on someone else's design. I think as long as you mention in the narrative where you draw inspiration, that can be a vital component of developing your own tech.

For instance, in Isselmere's writeup of his Tiger interceptor, he mentioned various aircraft of mine as being part of the genesis of his. He also mentioned in one writeup that the aircraft was nicknamed the Tiger after my national animal. I did something similar when I designed the Z-34 Bonham MBT when I used elements of Praetonia's Phalanx MBT and Soviet Bloc's Mekhev MBT to create a tank that was intended to compete with Soviet Bloc's tank.

However, if you just take someone's design without their permission and only change a word here and there, that is considered bad form. There's nothing wrong with someone creating a product that gives you an idea to get started, especially if you create an original design with your own specificiations and/or technology.

1. No weapon, vehicle, ship or aircraft is 100% tamper-proof. Also, reverse engineering usually takes a single post, if RPed at all. Most nations who RE prefer to do it behind closed doors.
2. Most nations that sell their weapons already have some sort of copyright on their weapon, meaning the only way to legally get more is to either buy production rights or simply purchase more weapons.
3. Weapons from real world countries such as the United States, Russia, and the United Kingdom are basically public domain, since RL nations don't exist per se in Nationstates. This means you can make all the M1s and MiGs you want, so long as the design does not belong to an unconsenting NS nation.
4. That is truly the victim's choice. Most countries will impose trade sanctions and the like, but a significant amount of nations will usually go to war if their weapons are reverse engineered.

I cannot see why legitimately reverse engineering someone else's weapon for your own use and production (not for sale however as yes, i would consider that badform) without their permission is badform if you have rp'd it... (although i can see the dangers of people using ignore cannons etc on you)

Exetonia, you can do that (Reverse engineering without their express OOC consent), but that would generally generate some anger as well. Sorta like suddenly nuking someone's city in the middle of a friendly war.

yeah i figured so, its just that the silver sky said it was considerd badform and i wanted to debate it to see how many people agreed/disagreed with that stance.

The anger caused is half the fun if its roleplayed well is it not ? :P

I personally don't like all the anti-tampering mechanisms (And prefers to avoid them in my own products), but generally, yes, it is considered badform. Would you, as a designer and producer of a series of unique aircraft/ships/tanks/munitions/whatever designs, like to see people reverse-engineering your product and produce it themselves with no licenses whatsoever?

Of course not but, if they roleplayed it well (Especially well if their are anti-tamper mechanisms) then i would accept them doing that and personally, go about ways of making sure they canb produce anymore through roleplay...

*bump*

it has probably been said all read (but I am too lazy to read everything right now :p ), but if it is RPed that you reverse engineer someone's technology it is okay - because in order to RP it, you need that person's permission.

Otherwise, no.

Yes, i can see your point there actually because how else would you know what you found at each stage of the reverse engineering without the original owner telling you.... i guess without permission it would not only be badform but godmodding to say what you found... (because ofcourse not all components etc are listed (especially in missiles)