NationStates Jolt Archive

OOC: This is open only for nations with colonies on Manium proper.

IC:

Letter of Invitation

To Whom This May Concern,

The Roman Government hereby announces that it will be holding a conference in its Manium colony of Nova Roma with the intentions of hammering out a treaty concerning the division of land on the recently colonized continent. This will provide a legal framework should any disputes over territory arise.

All participating colonies in Manium are invited to take part in this event.

Itineray
Place: Curia of Nova Roma
Time: 9AM-3PM Nova Roma time. There will be coffee and lunch breaks. Food will be provided.

The Sharinan delegate, Jenna La'nac will be attending.

(Consider her there once the conference begins)

Invitation accepted and processed. We look forward to seeing you there.

Official Imperial Communique:

To: Whom it may concern
From: Chancellor Licinius

Markus Moltke shall attend this conference in representation of Borman Empire and the Manium colony of Bhalkan. However, if this turns into a corrupt wasteful body like the current UN, we shall leave.

End Transmission

Telegram:

To: Whomever this may concern
From: Royey Gand'Miro - Head of State


Dear assembly, my delegate Mary Codswell shall be appearing momentarily. She left a little while ago from our Vastivan located colony to meet up. After a few meetings, I myself will show up to fully represent the nation. Good tidings to you. Peace be with you.

Signed,

Royey Gand'Miro

Invitations processed and accepted. See you there!

OOC:

Any idea when this conference can begin? Or should we wait for a couple more players to arrive then begin?

OOC:

Any idea when this conference can begin? Or should we wait for a couple more players to arrive then begin?

OOC: I want to wait.

Offical Statement by the Emperor

I shall personally attend this conference.

[OOC: Until or unless my puppet Branwynn gets restored, I'll have to post from this account.]

Branwynian President Tom Brockton was just re-elected to his first full term as President after independence from Sarzonia. The newly-developing country of Branwyn had struggled through some tough years that could be described as growing pains for a new country, but the $1 trillion per annum payments from the mother country was a huge help.

Now that the nation had gone through its first election and an orderly transition to power was happening throughout the newly named Congress, Brockton could start looking on to other goals. One of those was to ensure that the nation of Branwyn could cooperate with their colonial neighbours.

"Mr. President, we've just received an invitation from RomeW to attend a conference."

"That's pretty interesting," Brockton said. "Any word on the Secretary of State nomination in the Senate?"

"It should sail through, but the vote's been postponed until tomorrow."

"I guess I'll have to go."

Invitation processed and accepted.

OOC: I shall wait a week for everyone to join in before starting. I TG'ed everyone who had Manium claims, except TIOR- does anyone know what happened to him?

Official Statement
Office of the Governor-General of Greater McClellen and the Colonial Collectives

The Government of the Grand Duchy of Hamptonshire, through the Office of the Interior of the Federal State Ministry, has directed that those territories of the Hamptonian League present in Manium shall participate in the Roman-sponsored conference in Nova Roma.

As the representative of the Federal Government of the Grand Duchy and the Governments of the Protectorates of Greater McClellen and the Colonial Collectives, I shall be our principal representative at these talks.


Signed,
Sir Issac Astor, KGCL, KGCSI, KGCKG, KCHE, MV, SC
Governor-General of Greater McClellen and the Colonial Collectives

OOC: ok i got a TG but i don't seem to remmember what this is for...any maps i could see or another thread would help

This is the thread and the map:

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=413824

http://www.geocities.com/dadothegreat2003/maniummapofficial.png

Ab-shalom and greetings;

Our Representative, Vizier Nebiat ben Alovar, will be in attendance.

Invitation processed and accepted.

His Excellency Ambassador Nikolai "Nikko" McBrain will be representing the Generian Imperial Government's colonial interests and speaking for His Most Eminent and Gracious Majesty Emperor Kazatmiru I.

His Excellency Ambassador Nikolai "Nikko" McBrain will be representing the Generian Imperial Government's colonial interests and speaking for His Most Eminent and Gracious Majesty Emperor Kazatmiru I.

Application processed and accepted.

OOC: More peoples!

Vizier Nebiat ben Alovar packed light and prepared to go to the conference... it at the least promised to be interesting.

On her way out the door, she BUMPED a small table. Fortunately, nothing on it was that valuable

OOC: I think it's safe to start the conference now, with the opening speeches. The people who still want to show up can RP arriving and giving their opening speech.

IC:

It was a beautiful day in Nova Roma. With the temperature comfortable and not a cloud in the sky, the weather provided the same sense of optimisim the multitude of assembled politicians had hoped to harness at today's conference.

Leading the discussion would be Nova Roma Consul Lucius Martius Robema, who would not only represent his own colony but that of the greater Roman Manium possessions as a whole. He had a lot of objectives for the conference, including taking as much as he could of that juicy former New Roskan territory.

Of course, in the spirit of the day, he'd have to compromise, something he was prepared to do, although he was reluctant to do so.

Eventually came the time to start the conference. "Good morning ladies and gentlemen," started Robema, "The way this conference shall work is that each of your delegations shall be given 30 minutes (OOC: one post) to state their positions, after which we will have a lunch break and then the question period. Who would like to begin?"

*bump*

Vizier Nebiat ben Alovar straightened her papers and looked around the room at the other delegates. As Vastiva was so deeply into the alphabet - and far down on the presenting list - she had no worries about timeliness. Others would have their say, and afterwards, she would speak her peace.

And then the real fun would begin.

Vizier Nebiat ben Alovar straightened her papers and looked around the room at the other delegates. As Vastiva was so deeply into the alphabet - and far down on the presenting list - she had no worries about timeliness. Others would have their say, and afterwards, she would speak her peace.

And then the real fun would begin.

OOC: You can go first if you want. I don't structure this like the UN does.

Robema took the momentary silence as his cue to begin.

"Let me begin by stating what the Roman government wishes to achieve with this conference," said Robema, pulling out his papers.

"Rome is interested in the following objectives:

1) The clear demarcation of our borders so as to prevent territorial conflicts
2) The expansion of Roman territory into the former colony of New Roska.

On the first point, while we have not have any previous problems with any nation on the Manium continent, we are worried that while the borders remain undefined the potential exists for unecessary conflicts, conflicts the Romans wish to avoid. Wars are costly and lead only to more wars, plus in our most recent experiences, we believe we get better results through negotiation, and we are hopeful we can achieve that.

On the second point, the colony of Caesaria-Manium is so far only connected by a narrow land bridge to the northern sea, with an intricate rail network connecting us to the coast. Therefore, we are requesting more land towards the east to give us a better coastline for us to operate our colony with. We are willing to negotiate this split with any other interested parties.

Those are our objectives. Who would like to proceed next?"

Sir Issac stood after Robema finished speaking. "The Government of the Grand Duchy and the Governments of the Protectorates applaudes our hosts for their efforts to establish the rule of international law and diplomacy in Manium."

He paused to bring out a small data pad with maps and notes. He continued, "Our goals are moderate yet absolutely critical to the Governments and Citizens of the entire Hamptonian League.

As you can see in the map (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v114/hamptonshire/NS%20Pictures/e04c4cb3.png)my aides will be handing to you shortly, we are seeking to lay claim to all the territory in pink. These lands are of crucial importance to the economy of Greater McClellen and the Colonial Collectives. In addition these areas have substantial numbers of ethnic Hamptonians." He paused for emphasis, "We ask for nothing more than other nations here at this conference have asked for and received in the past."

The Governor-General began to sit down when he remembered his last point, something that would probably help things along. "Oh...and the Government of the Grand Duchy of Hamptonshire fully supports the eastward coastal expansion of Caesaria-Manium as long as such expansion does not conflict with Hamptonian territorial claims."

Robema listened intentively at Sir Issac's speech, considering that the Hamptonians had the same objective as the Romans did. He was concerned the Hamptonians and the Romans were headed for war until hearing Sir Issac's last line. Then a light went on in his brain.

He took the stand promptly after Issac to usher in the next speaker, then returned to his seat to do a little thinking. The Hamptonians are willing to defend our claim, Robema thought. We've got enough problems with the Bormans and if they can help us out we just might get a favourable deal. He made a note to himself in his PDA to contact the Hamptonians at the break to discuss a defensive pact. I don't doubt our abilities to take on the Bormans, Robema again thought, but with Hamptonshire's help, it'd tip the favour drastically in our hands so that we can avoid a costly war.

Mary Codswell took this moment to take the stand and state her speech.

"Good evening fellow politicians. In light of the Manium Conference, Brutix has appointed me the representative," she quickly retrieved her notecards and continued,

"As most know, Brutix has two colonies on both sides of the continent. The only ways to travel to each colony is by air and sea. We have seen fit the idea to construct a super highway underground to connect our colonies. But this wouldn't just connect our colonies, in the future this highway could connect to all of the colonies of Manium for a fast and cheap form of transportation," Mary shuffled through her cards quickly to see anything see missed, "Oh and one other thing, the Brutix Nation is in full support of Roman expansion into the former New Roskan territory. This is more viable if there is allowed room to build at least a small enough territory for a port on the northern coast line. Thanks."

Mary took her seat, thankful for having the speech over.

Ambassador, diplomat, and world renowned drummer The Honorable Nikolai “Nikko” McBrain shuffled through a set of papers before rising to his feet and taking the place of the Brutix delegate at the stand. He took a brief moment to remove and put on a pair of wire rimmed glasses before launching into his opening statement.

“Good evening, ladies and gentlemen, and on behalf of the Generian Imperial Government, I offer our thanks to our host, the Roman Government, and express our utmost appreciation for the calling of this conference, which we are certain will provide the necessary opportunity for all colonial powers to air their grievances and express their desires.

The Generian government is interested foremost in settling the dispute over the foremost western Imperial claims, which have also in effect been declared the property of the Lightning Star government. The Imperial government hopes to avoid any unpleasant confrontation which may arise from the dispute and to settle matters in a civilized manner.

Furthermore, the Imperial government would require assurance that as our national policy is not impeded in our homeland, the policies enacted within the borders of Generian territory on Manium will be left an internal matter, and that there will be no universal Manium government created that seeks to impose upon Generian citizens, within Generian borders the law of foreign lands and colonies.

Thank you, and once again, my thanks to our hosts.”

McBrain returned to his seat.

Vizier Nebiat ben Alovar gave a slight bow to her hosts even as she rose. “We applaud what you seek to achieve here, and will certainly support whatever comes of this discussion. And we most certainly support the eastward coastal expansion of Caesaria-Manium as long as it does not seek to grow over our outpost in that area – I believe there is a coconut plantation there of some minor usefulness…”

She paused to view her notes before continuing.

“While we do find some interest in Representative Codswell’s proposal for a trans-continental highway, we would find such a violation of our borders to be… rather a difficulty considering our mining operations. As such, Vastiva cannot support such an idea at this time. Though we are certainly open to more discussion on the subject.

“We do, however, find no difficulties in supporting Hamptonshire’s planned expansion, much as we do continue to support Hamptonshire in many of her goals.

“As to Vastivan expansion…” She found a moment to take a sip of water, “We have no wish for claims beyond those which we have already claimed and populated. We respect the rights of others to expand as they will into unclaimed territory, and will support that right. Just as we agree with our Generian neighbors in their opposition to a continental governance overriding our domestic policies."

A smile and another slight bow. “Many thanks for the gift of an opportunity to present our views.”

She sat.

Robema continued to listen and take more notes, taking a second to nod appreciatively when McBrain thanked the Romans for hosting the conference. Let's see, thought Robema, we now have Brutix, Hamptonshire and Vastiva backing us up. This is looking promising. He then remembered that he did want to avoid war as much as possible, even if it would now become one-sided. Well, hopefully the Bormans will be willing to negotiate, because I wouldn't want a hostile neighbour. He then continued to listen to the next propsals.

Damn the Governor-General thought to himself as he remember yet another point he failed to bring up. The recent hospitalization of his brother and his own brushes with mortality were taking their toll on Sir Issac. He looked forward to the end of his term as Governor-General in four months with great anticipation.

"If you would please excuse me," he said while bowing his head to Robema, "there was one thing that my Government's Foreign Office wished for me to present here. While we greatly appreciate the Roman Government's efforts to g bring this conference together we must all realize the drawbacks to such ad hoc collections of territorial and imperial officials.

The Grand Duchy would like at this time to suggest the creation of a 'Trans-Manium Council'. It would not act as a supra-governmental body nor would it be an intergovernmental alliance per se."

He paused to catch his breath.

"The system, and I do mean system and not organization, we are proposing would only see the creation of a physical complex where diplomatic representatives of those Manium territories that wish to participate could interact freely at all times. All the TMC would be is a place for all our governments to come together on a daily basis. If problems arise a system like the TMC would allow for face-to-face contact between disputing parties within hours of any incident.

Naturally we think that Caesaria-Manium would be the best location for the Trans-Manium Council, should the Romans agree and should this idea be accepted by you, our fellow Manium Governments."

Nebiat did not stand, but gave her question.

"Sir Issac, are you proposing the creation of a Manium version of the United Nations? If so, we do support this - to the extent of it being a meeting place, not a policy maker. This... TMC must serve it's members, not seek to rule them, no?"

Her mouth quirked in a smile. It wasn't as if the Caliph wasn't planning on opening another diplomatic initiative towards Hamptonshire, proposing this time something akin to the contracts Hammerite Sanctur and Nova Hope had enjoyed...

Sir Issac shifted in his seat. While he respected the United Nations and the deliberative and diplomatic functions of that organization, he like nearly all Hamptonians were appauled at the notion of surrendering national sovereignty to an international organization, even one as noble as the UN. Hamptonshire wasn't looking for the creation of yet another political alliance. Manium needed something neutral, something that would serve to preserve the peace and channels of communications for generations to come.

"Actually it would be improper to compare what we propose to the "United Nations.'" He paused to drink some water, "The TMC would have no directive or resolution issuing powers or bodies. No national sovereignity in any form would in any way be ceded to the TMC."

Doing the same as Vizier Nebiat:

"Sir, wouldn't the location of the TMC possible cause some political disturbance in an actual nations territory? Wouldn't it make sense, so as for others to say the Romans were trying to control the other nations unnoticably, to put the TMC in a neutral territory much like the United States's Washington, D.C? This point occured to me due to the fact of the recent change in my... superiors governmental choices. He may see it as a way of controlling. I see no problem with having it in such a beautiful place, but others may find it a bit odd."

Mary sat thinking, why did he change the government, why does he make he people obey everything now, hes power hungry...

McBrain again spoke up.

"While I can see the logic behind such a meeting place, I must ask upon whom the construction costs for such a facility will fall? If Generia has no need for or intention of using such a structure, we would most heartily protest being forced to share the responsibility for aiding in its construction."

"I personally like the idea of the TMC," said Robema, "because having a neutral body will give the perspective needed to resolve disputes in a professional and peaceful manner."

His eyes brightened as he warmed to the topic. "We'd be delighted to have it in Caesaria-Manium, and we'd cover all the costs needed to build it," he continued. "Although, as a second option, perhaps all the signatories could construct a TMC place on their own soil, so that the disputing parties can choose where they want to hold the meeting.

"Furthermore, we propose that the TMC each have one person representing each signatory power, and that any ruling the TMC makes is 'not binding' on the parties involved."

He stopped to see what the reaction would be to his statements.

Codswell listened to Robema's statements. With what he said her worries of what her ruler would say or do diminished.

"A wonderful idea Roberma, excuse me, Robema. Constructing a TMC building on each nations soil would be great. But instead of deciding where to have the metting everytime there is a meeting wouldn't a schedule be more likely. Such as by population or some number to determine the starting order."

"I also believe my supervisor would gladly elect me as the representative to such a great body of persons."

Being single, Mary has been eyeing Robema through the whole of the conference, wondering if he had a mate or not...

Codswell listened to Robema's statements. With what he said her worries of what her ruler would say or do diminished.

"A wonderful idea Roberma, excuse me, Robema. Constructing a TMC building on each nations soil would be great. But instead of deciding where to have the metting everytime there is a meeting wouldn't a schedule be more likely. Such as by population or some number to determine the starting order."

"I also believe my supervisor would gladly elect me as the representative to such a great body of persons."

Being single, Mary has been eyeing Robema through the whole of the conference, wondering if he had a mate or not...

Codswell had been giving Robema all sorts of hints throughout the conference, a fact that wasn't lost on the Consul. At a youthful-looking 43, Robema was still a bachelor, and swore it to the day he died. Besides, the Romans had strict rules about getting into relationships with foreign diplomats and politicians, but nobody said anything about affairs...

My she looks nice, thought Robema to himself as he watched Codswell speak, This one's in the bag. He then began to think about how she'd be like in his hotel room, but he stopped his thought process after a second to ensure that he caught everything she said and so that he could maintain his display of professionalism. He did, however, make a mental note of talking to the Brutian official at the break so he could "seal the deal".

"Great idea. A schedule would work better," said Robema in reply to Codswell. "Perhaps this rotates on a basis of every few months so that nations are not waiting years before their turn comes aroud."

McBrain's expression hardened. Apparently he had not adequately communicated Generia's desire to avoid internationalist organizations at any costs. Certainly paying to construct a meeting place for one would not be a desirable prospect. He cleared his throat.

"I will take the time to make it very clear that Generia will not be constructing a meeting place for, or hosting any meetings of this TMC on her soil."

Codswell smiled

"Well no one ever said you had to, heck we didn't even all agree to building on our own soil. It seems only people who would be interested would build one and then you wouldn't ever have to worry. Silly, pay attention to details."

Mary had noticed slightly that Robema was eyeing her while she was talking. Hmm, maybe we'll have a nice chat after the meeting today... *she winks at Robema* After this thought immediatley went back to paying attention to the whole of the meeting.

In his head, McBrain was chuckling. Diplomacy was apparently not her first language. Whatever the case, she had wantonly insulted a respected Imperial emissary, a matter taken to be an extraordinary offense. Of course, being a reasonable man, he would have to offer her a chance to redeem herself. He put on an affronted expression, which turned to a stern scowl.

"I highly resent your condescension, and on behalf of the Imperial government, I will ask that it ceases immediately."

Noticing McBrains sudden change in emotion Codswell realized she should've held for tongue. But being raised in a very respectful house she apologized.

"I am quite sorry Sir for saying that, being around my superior has kind of lost me my natural diplomatic behaviours. He's not always serious so I have taken in the worst of that. I fully take back what I said to you Mr. McBrain."

McBrain nodded curtly and allowed the procedings to continue.

Robema noticed that the proceedings getting a little animated and thought it may have been time for a break.

"Shall we take a break then? We'll meet back in fifteen minutes. Refreshments are in the hall."

The delegates took that as their cue to get up from their seats. Some stretched. Others went right for the coffee. Robema, however, went right for Codswell.

"I saw you looking at me over there," said Robema to a lone Codswell with a grin. "What say you that we go back to my room when this is all said and done to discuss a little 'business'?"

Nebiat dawdled, doodling some figures on her pad before moving to the refreshments.

Such an interesting conference. Very interesting that some nations cannot afford to put in a few shekles for a building in the interest of diplomacy... interesting also how things are brewing...

She sipped, and smiled, and small talked for a bit. Perhaps later a missive would find it's way to interested parties about an underwriting of the building costs to Designwerks, or some other company.

Money without purpose was meaningless. Money with meaning...

That was power.

*bump*

At the understated bell, she found her way back to her seat and wondered at her opposite numbers. A simple proposition. Why such resistance? Perhaps they fear what could uncover their sins?

Sir George Tanning, Praetonian High Commissioner to Neo-Praetonia entered the conference hall as quietly as he could and took a seat. He flipped through a few sheets of a transcript that had been handed to him by one of his aides and then decided to speak.

"Whilst I do not doubt that the Hamptonians' cause is noble, is this Trans-Manium Council really necessary? If it does not exercise any power or influence over member states - something that we would not support for a moment - what benefits does it bring that cannot be attained through bi-lateral diplomacy? I certainly would want to be seen as penny-pinching over a trifling few million Praefelis to build a conference hall, I would like to know what it actually has to offer the people of Neo-Praetonia before I assign their money to its construction."

Markus Moltke looked around and pulled a little on his tie, knowing the proposition he had to present. Rome would be expected to be hostile to it, but he was instructed to take no less.

Before Praetonia's point could be explored further Markus strode up to the podium to present.

"Umm..." He shook his shoulders a bit and brushed some lint off his sleeves. "To buisness. As you all know, there are many advantages to having a connected land rather than one splintered, political, military, economic, and more. With this is mind, you should understand how Borman's expansion into New Roska's old territory would essentially be creating a second land, as Rome's territory is straight in the middle. As such Borman would need to take posession of Rome's land above the Augustan Range."

A projector in the back silently whizzed to life as a map was projected on the screen unravelling behind Markus. map (http://usera.imagecave.com/obsterray/Manium.PNG)

As you can see by the map we have drawn up, Borman would take Rome's territory above the range and expand further eastward. The lower right hand corner of our expansion has been shaved away so as to provide the cushion that we have found many nations need when splitting up territory. All along where our expansion ends Rome's would begin. It would then continue east into Hamptonshire's expansion and then some. The blue green represents Hamptonshire's requested expansion which we allot (sp?) to Rome. And further the unclaimed land beneath the Augustan range would be given to Rome. Also, Borman would be expanding into the open space beneath its land."

Before anyone could raise objection Markus continued with his speech.

"On the issue of the TMC, we will have to side with Praetonia. Now, I believe that is all."

Markus gathered his papers and walked off to his seat, leaving the map projected on the back.

OOC: You spelled "allot" right.

IC:

Robema took a look at Moltke's map. We still have a land connection to the sea. We'd be losing Northernland but we'd gain a lot of territory.

"Our position is that we absolutely must have a northern access to the sea for Caesaria-Manium," said Robema in reply to Moltke. "Caesaria-Manium does not have ample access to the sea in the south (as it holds only a narrow corridor to the coast), so it is vital for us to have a northern, unhibited access."

He thought to himself for a second- if we sell Northernland, the windfall would be enormous. He then realized he didn't want to come off as an opportunist- he was, after all, a statesman.

He continued. "Give us a good offer for Northernland and we'll consider selling it to you. We are also requesting as part of the deal a new Northernland Railway in our new territories be funded by the Borman government, and/or that the present Northernland Railway be declared 'international property'. We simply won't go ahead with the deal unless the Railway is covered in some way, because that is vital for our colony. We are also requesting that New Roska be split evenly amongst ourselves, your colony and Hamptonshire."

He waited for Moltke's reply.

Sir Issac sat quietly as the Roman and Borman delegates exchanged words. The Governor-General carefully considered his words.

"Gentlemen," he said in a very differential tone, "my government has no position when it comes to the bilateral dealings of the Roman and Borman Empires. All that we are concerned about in this situation is securing what we see as critically essential to the health and well-being of Hamptonshire and Her Protectorates."

He paused to collect his thoughts and reclined back in his chair, "That said, I must as this time inform you all that the 'map' drawn up by the Borman Empire is entirely unacceptable. We have no issue with those points that do not concern us, but we will not and shall not trade any of the territory that we intend to legitimately, and properly, annex into the Hamptonian League. We only want the land that is rightfully ours, not a square millimeter more or a single grain of sand less.

Furthermore, any discussions about potential territorial agreements between the Roman Empire and the Grand Duchy should be done between Hamptonshire and Rome exclusively. I think everyone here can agree that it borders on insulting that the Borman Empire included Hamptonian territorial concessions, without any regard or dialog with us, in a plan that has no benefit for the Grand Duchy. That's like agreeing to hand over your neighbor's car to the bank so you can buy a new patio. It's just not kosher."

Robema squirmed a little in his chair. He feared the Hamptonians misunderstood what he said, so he felt he had to clarify.

"Sir Issac, it should be known that we have no intentions of forcing any decision upon the Hamptonian people," said Robema, "and we hope that yourselves, the Bormans and us can reach an agreement concerning New Roska that can be acceptable to all, and we won't stop until that happens."

*bump*

Nebiat twiddled idly with her pen, seemingly disenchanted with the goings on.

On quite another level, she wondered at the cost of a sudden war between Hamptonshire and... well, anyone over more slices of land. It wasn't as though the outcome wasn't certain. The question would be over how much damage would be done to the natural resource - such as groundwater supplies and breathing air.

Still, the conversation did bring up some... interesting... points for later discussion. Mentally, she memoed a request for more OVERSIGHT and DEEPFATHER views of the disputed territories. It never hurt to have a little insight...

OOC:

Could someone give me a summary of the conference so far, what the major topics of discussion are, and such? That way I'll be able to start RP'ing my delegate in here this weekend or the coming week, should Jolt not become flaky again.

OOC Summary so far:

The following topics have been raised:

New Roska- myself, Hamptonshire and Borman Empire all want a piece of the land. BE wants my Northernland territory and I said I'd sell, but Hamptonshire is angry at BE because their claims were adjusted without their consent.

Trans-Manium Council- Hamptonshire proposed it as simply a meeting place to discuss our problems and it's received a lukewarm acceptance thus far. The main source of contention are its power and where it's located- Hamptonshire proposed my colonial capital, Caesaria-Manium, and I proposed the signatories all construct a building to hold these meetings which can either be rotated or pre-determined by the disputing parties.

Brutix also proposed a trans-continental highway (Vastiva shot it down). There's also been some flirting going on between my delegate and Brutix's.

I think that covers it. Is there anything else I missed?

OOC: I suspect a war or three is in the offing... Vastiva is mostly neutral, though protecting her borders, which prevents the transcontinental highway.

OOC:

Okay, thanks. I appreciate the summary.

I have a couple ideas for the conference, but I'm not sure if I can post them today or tomorrow with Jolt being flaky and all.

OOC: I suspect a war or three is in the offing... Vastiva is mostly neutral, though protecting her borders, which prevents the transcontinental highway.

OOC: Looks like I'm stuck. :( Though I do have a lot of support...

OOC Summary so far:

The following topics have been raised:

New Roska- myself, Hamptonshire and Borman Empire all want a piece of the land. BE wants my Northernland territory and I said I'd sell, but Hamptonshire is angry at BE because their claims were adjusted without their consent.

Trans-Manium Council- Hamptonshire proposed it as simply a meeting place to discuss our problems and it's received a lukewarm acceptance thus far. The main source of contention are its power and where it's located- Hamptonshire proposed my colonial capital, Caesaria-Manium, and I proposed the signatories all construct a building to hold these meetings which can either be rotated or pre-determined by the disputing parties.

Brutix also proposed a trans-continental highway (Vastiva shot it down). There's also been some flirting going on between my delegate and Brutix's.

I think that covers it. Is there anything else I missed?

((OOC: Don't forget about the disputed territory between TLS and myself. That has yet to be resolved.))

((OOC: Don't forget about the disputed territory between TLS and myself. That has yet to be resolved.))

OOC: Oh ya...but TLS has been strangely absent from that debate here...

OOC: Looks like I'm stuck. :( Though I do have a lot of support...

OOC: Stuck? You mean fighting? Probably, but you knew that coming in. Though it would be interesting if something beside a shooting war showed up. A nice cold war, for example....

OOC: Stuck? You mean fighting? Probably, but you knew that coming in. Though it would be interesting if something beside a shooting war showed up. A nice cold war, for example....

((OOC: Bah! Let's not forget that Cold War is synonymous with not cool, while shooting war is synonymous with ass-kicking.))

OOC: Stuck? You mean fighting? Probably, but you knew that coming in. Though it would be interesting if something beside a shooting war showed up. A nice cold war, for example....

OOC: I was hopeful I'd avoid it...I have mediated out of a lot of conflicts, and this will be no different. Besides, I'm not sure how much BE wants to be in a fight that's five-on-one, as that's what it's shaping up to be.

((OOC: Bah! Let's not forget that Cold War is synonymous with not cool, while shooting war is synonymous with ass-kicking.))

OOC: Ahem. A cold war - what with all the interplay, spying, and so forth, can be far more interesting and far more involved then a "lets shoot each other". A different set of skills, as it were.

OOC: I was hopeful I'd avoid it...I have mediated out of a lot of conflicts, and this will be no different. Besides, I'm not sure how much BE wants to be in a fight that's five-on-one, as that's what it's shaping up to be.

OOC: One advantage of a Cold War - force you can put up directly plays less part in it then your intelligence assets. Witness that Russia could have flattened NATO by sheer force measurements, but NATO won.

((OOC: Don't forget about the disputed territory between TLS and myself. That has yet to be resolved.))

OOC: Indeed.

Jenna La'nac decided it was time to step out of the shadows and speak on behalf of Sharina, as her mind had been working furiously on a possible solution to the problems presented before the Manium Conference. A solution that just might work.

She spoke quietly and firmly.

"I have a possible solution for this problem of neutrality and a place where to establish a Manium Council.

What if we built an artifical island or use an island off the shore of Manium? That would be a perfectly neutral area, not affilated with any of the Manium Powers. It could act as a Switzerland of sorts.

Besides, I believe a Manium Council is necessary. We need a forum to discuss trade, economies, industry, resources, and crises in Manium. We do not necessarily have to use the Council to wage war or use it for destructive means. Let us use it for peaceful and prosperous means."

Markus looked at Robema and nodded while he talked, then when presented his turn answered.

"We would be perfectly willing to fund the construction of a railroad in the territory Rome would take possesion of. And on the matter of the Northernland itself, what do you believe is a fair price?"

As Sir Issac rattled out his rant Markus felt the toes in his shoes curling into a ball as he sat listening.

"I find it to be common sense that any proposition regarding the dividing of New Roska would go through several layers of refurbishment, so to speak, untill it finally came to a fully accepted final agreement. The fact that Hamptonshire took such offense at this first level suggestion and then went on to imply that Borman intended to insult Hamptonshire does more than border on insulting, it is a blatant and unfounded accusation and insult!"

"Gentlemen, please!" said Robema, trying to stop a fight. "We are here in the spirit of diplomacy! We should be helping each other not fighting!"

He took a deep breath then went on. "As for your offer, Marcus, this is how it breaks down:"

He then pulled out a pen, paper and a calculator.

"Northernland territorially is 1,829,213.85 square miles, so we peg that cost at around $3 trillion, just for the land.
"The railway we need to connect our new land to Caesaria-Manium costs around $2.5 trillion.
"So we are willing to make a deal- $1 trillion for the land, so that the total cost to the Bormans is $3.5 trillion, which can be paid gradually.
"I know these are high prices, Mr. Moltke, but remember this is a substantial amount of territory you are asking for, so it's not going to come cheap."

"I will not get drawn into pointless arguments." Sir Issac pushed his eyeglass back up on his nose before he continued, "The fact is that the current Borman-backed plan on the table was not directed toward the Grand Duchy. It was made in an attempt to secure Roman support for Borman land claims. If certain parties here want to discuss issues with us, then they should talk with us."

"I would like to ask all delegates here to think about my position for a moment. Without any notification Hamptonian claims were altered in a plan that had no benefit for the Grand Duchy. The Roman and Borman Empires both would get what they wanted, and perhaps then some, but Hamptonshire would lose territory.

If, as the Bormans have said, this is not an insult but a compromise where, I ask, is the gain for the Grand Duchy? Rome loses Caesaria-Manium but gains wide swaths of land to the east. The Bormans gain an established and contiguous territory while losing any future claims to the east. Hamptonshire loses a sizeable portion of its intended western borderlands without any off-setting gains. That, ladies and gentlemen, is no compromise."

Robema intervened- he had to do something before the situation got out of hand. "Sir Issac, how would you like to resolve this? It is you, Mr. Moltke and I who want a piece of New Roska, so I say that right now, the three of us pool our brains together so that we can work something out.

"Now, if I may, I have a new proposal for both of you to consider." He then pulled out his laptop, fiddled a bit and then had something to show the two diplomats. Part of this was just an act- he wanted to look "sophisticated" for Ms. Codswell.

"There. Gentlemen, get me the projector," said Robema to his assistants, who did so. "Have a look at this," he said, directing the assembled to the map (http://www.geocities.com/dadothegreat2003/ManiumProposal.png) being shown on the screen.

"Allow me to explain this map. Both of your claims have been adjusted slightly, so that we can evenly divide the coastline amongst ourselves. Every other aspect of the expansion has been kept. Also, the lighter grey signifies the railroad that will need to be built for our colony.

"What do you think?"

He waited for the statesmen's responses.

Mrs. Jenna Lan'ac tapped her foot quietly, with some frustration and annoyance growing within herself. She did not reveal her inner turmoil, as every Sharinan diplomat has been trained to maintain an emotionless exterior to serve as an offensive and defensive weapon in diplomacy. After all, if a diplomat reveals no emotion, the enemy cannot gauge or discern any subtle information from the diplomat for their own gains. Likewise, a cool head during a heated debate stands to gain more than the most vocal and emotional diplomat.

Jenna thought to herself.

Damn fools. They chose to ignore my offer, therefore they must consider my proposal not worh considering. Perhaps they do not believe in neutrality.

Vizier Nebiat ben Alovar was probably the only one close enough to hear the tapping of the Sharinan's foot - and likely the only one with enough experience to know what that meant.

She reviewed her notes - indeed, the thought of war had pre-empted the Sharinan suggestion of a building. But then, with all the hotheads and saber-rattlers this table countenanced, what other outcome could occur?

For the moment, she entertained herself by swirling the cherry around in the fresh Shirley Temple placed before her. Time enough, time enough.

Markus put on a false smile as Robema presented the new map. The truth was that Markus was somewhat eager to provide a rebuttal to what Sir Issac said, Markus saw a lack of intelligence and sense in his speech but a whole load of hypocrisy.

“That is perfectly acceptable to us. If Sir Issac agrees we can transfer the 3.5 trillion dollars immediately.”

"Before we agree to the current proposal, we would like to secure the borders that we first claimed. The Grand Duchy is prepared to offer 10 billion kroner to the Roman Empire for the remainder of the territory that we claimed but did not receive."

Sir Issac finished speaking without even acknowledging the Borman delegate. He didn't think any less of the man, it would have been impossible since he thought nothing of the Borman colonial government.

"That coastline is important to us," said Robema. "You already have a considerable amount of it, and under our new proposal, you are still retaining maybe 90% of what you had. The Bormans are losing a bit too...it's not like we're just targetting you."

"It is absolutely critical that we get the land that we at first claimed. The population of the specific region in question is nearly forty percent Hamptonian in ancestory. We are more than willing to compensate the Roman Empire financially for its support."

Nebiat bit the cherry off the stem and chewed.

It can't be long now...

"It is absolutely critical that we get the land that we at first claimed. The population of the specific region in question is nearly forty percent Hamptonian in ancestory. We are more than willing to compensate the Roman Empire financially for its support."

OOC: Do you actually have any proof of that (i.e., a post that details a large Hamptonian immigration to New Roska)? Otherwise, I'm going to ignore it, because it sounds like you're pulling numbers out of thin air, since that area has been, up to now, The Island of Rose's.

OOC: Immigration has been established in RPs dating back to the beginning of this all. McClellen and its people (who would still be called Hamptonians) have always been RPed as rather closely integrated with the Rosians. In addition, and TIOR can back me up on this if you get to him whatever internet chat program you use, the wide "border" regions of both his previous colonies and my current colonies have substantial opposite ethnic populations (around 30% of the population of McClellen's western provinces are ethnically Rosian).

OOC: I could also argue that since TIOR and I were close that there's a huge amount of Romans who live there too, and that since both of you were in The New Roman Empire you're all ethnically similar to me anyway.

OOC: Ooooh, interesting... shades of WWII....

OOC:

OK. I'm going to modify my previous post (accidentally deleted it- wanted to throw it out but now I'm thinking it's relevant.

OOC: Immigration has been established in RPs dating back to the beginning of this all. McClellen and its people (who would still be called Hamptonians) have always been RPed as rather closely integrated with the Rosians. In addition, and TIOR can back me up on this if you get to him whatever internet chat program you use, the wide "border" regions of both his previous colonies and my current colonies have substantial opposite ethnic populations (around 30% of the population of McClellen's western provinces are ethnically Rosian).

I could also argue that since TIOR and I were close that there's a huge amount of Romans who live there too, and that since both of you were in The New Roman Empire you're all ethnically similar to me anyway (unless I'm misunderstanding the whole TNRE thing- my understanding is that you're all Romans initially and, well, I'm Roman).

Still, do you have a physical post I can see confirming this? If you do, I'll believe you. I'll play along for now in the interests of maintaining the RP, but I'd still like some solid proof.

IC:

Robema had to think quickly. The Hamptonians hadn't said it yet but they were almost about to declare war on Rome (or place the Romans in the position of one), and he had to stop them. He placed a new map on the projector:

"We have edited our claims as follows," started Robema, who placed a new map on the projector:

www.geocities.com/dadothegreat2003/ManiumProposal2.png

"In this arrangement, Hamptonshire, you get to keep all of the interior regions you wanted and we get access to the ports that we so badly need. As per Roman law, all ethnic Hamptonians who live in the area, and by extension Rosians, will be granted citizenship and thus have the full legal rights afforded to Roman citizens, including the freedom of mobility. As per our arrangements in The New Roman Empire, our border shall also be open to Hamptonian tourists and any other Hamptonian visitor to the Roman colony.

"We hope this arrangement is much more acceptable," finished Robema. He'd better take it. I'm compromising a lot here- and now Sir Issac needs to do the same, thought Robema to himself as he sat back down.

bump

bump

bump

OOC: I'm going to send Hamptonshire a TG. We need to get this thing moving.

OOC: I'm going to send Hamptonshire a TG. We need to get this thing moving.

OOC: Yeah, need to get Manium resolved.

"Are you allowing for dual citizenships, or will they have to... choose sides?" she mused to no one in particular, seemingly unaware of how her mike picked up ever single word, and tossed it about the room.

OOC: Bumpishness?