NationStates Jolt Archive

The Players

The Warsaw Pact and Continental Powers

Comrade Mikhail Ivanovich Kalinin, representing the Union of Social-Democratic Republics
Comrade Josip Broz Tito, representing the Federated States of Yugoslavia
Major-General Reichmann, representing the Workers' Republic of Germany
Minister Yvon Delbos , representing the Republic of France
Ambassador Lu Hong, representing the Greater Chinese Empire

The London Treaty Alliance

Mr. Robert Lansing, representing the United States of America
Mr. John Pimlott, representing the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland
Dr. Emelio Ortega, representing the Argetine Republic
Heer Jacobus Fouché, representing the Union of South Africa
Sr. Laureano Gomez, representing the Republic of Colombia
Not Arrived, representing the Kingdom of Italy

Neutral states of Interest:

Yamamoto Hiroshi, representing the Empire of Japan
Ghazi Mustafa Kemal Pasha, representing the Ottoman Empire


The Scene
The peace talks of the Second Great War, at the the Hague in the Netherlands. During the lull in fighting for the Winter of 1925/26 the Americans and Russians, having taken nearly four months to agree on an oval table, begin to make some possible progress towards a ceasefire. We join the bickering already in progress . . .

"Really, Mr. Lansing, this outburst does not become you," answers Kalinin. "The Union will help the Italians rebuild. Will you do the same for the Cherokee?" Kalinin wags his finger at Lansing like a schoolteacher chastising the class fool. "Do not for a moment presume to lecture me, sir.

"As you say, more blood will be spilt. Yet I do not see how it is productive to let fly with recriminations instead of attempting to save lives and worry about who did what and for what reasons later.

"If I didn't know better, I'd almost think you were enjoying the slaughter."

Minister Laureano Gomez will be representing Colombia.

Yvon Delbos, French Minister of Foreign Affairs has just arrived from Paris and will be taking over the negotiations from the ambassador on the behalf of France.

"I apologize gentlemen, I have been exceedingly busy as of late. My aide will inform me of the details. Please, continue."

Josip Broz Tito shall be the representative of the Federated States of Jugoslavija.

"Our only main demand is a direct change in control of Trieste or at least a reform be voted upon by the people of Trieste to change control that way. We find this to be more than acceptable based on the number of people that have died in this war in the name of liberation....in all of it's true and deceptive forms."

Lansing grinned, "Actually, the Cherokee don't need our help to rebuild, they found oil in Oklahoma and they fairly rich now."

Lansing then looked levelly at the Chinese, "and Mr. Ambassador, if you are all for elections, than by all means, perhaps elections should be held in Mongolia, Tibet, Laos and Cambodia? Surely you won't deny the peoples of those nations the same rights you are so willing to provide the Burmese, even the primitive peoples living in the upper mountains near your border? At least the British protected them, who will protect them now from the Burmese if they gain independence."

ooc
the Burmese government has waged a war against the Kachins since indepedence, so its actually a real issue.

ooc
US proposals
The US opens with a private proposal to France:
1. Immediate withdrawal of all Czech, German and Russian troops from France.
2. Immediate surrender of all French military forces
3. LTA occupation of France and French West Africa for the duration of the war plus 6 months.
4. The LTA will rebuild French industry damaged in the war or evacuated. (includes Nantes, Brest, Marseilles, and Toulouse)
5. The French military can be rebuilt after the end of the LTA occupation to a limit of 300,000 men... 2 corps in France, 1 corps in French West Africa. The French Air Force is limited to single engined armed aircraft, although transport aircraft and air liners can be twin engined. The French Navy cannot have submarines, and is limited to ships of 10,000 tons or smaller and no ship can have bigger than 8 inch guns.
6. All French territory outside of continental France (and Corsica) that has been taken by LTA forces remains under the control of the LTA nations that occupied it to do with as they see fit.


Offer to Russia
1. Immediate cease fire
2. Russian forces pull back to their home garrisons as of 1923.
3. Afghanistan regains its independence, however, no British or Russian forces in that nation (subject to British approval).
4. Russian forces remain in their home country except in time of war.

Offer to Germany
1. Immediate cease fire
2. All German forces return to their home garrisons as of 1923.
3. All German territory or former German territory occupied by LTA remains under the control of the LTA nation that took it and those LTA nations can do with it as they see fit.
4. German navy restricted to 100 submarines, no carriers, and no warships with a range of greater than 5,000 kilometers without refueling (ooc in other words, no warship is allowed to have sufficient range to reach the Western Hemisphere)
5. No German ampbibious units.

to China
1. Immediate and complete withdrawal from Burma, Cambodia and Laos.
2. Independence for Laos and Cambodia, Burma returns to British control.
3. Immediate payment of indeminity to Australia (in ooc terms, a payment of 18 production points over 2 years to pay for the replacement of a battlecruiser and 10 destroyers plus payments to families of the dead)

To Yugoslavia
Withdrawal from all Italian territory

Pact counterproposals
Reduce restrictions to French Air Force (subsequently dropped)
Germany wants Azores and Maderia back, told bluntly no by US
Yugoslavia wants to keep Trieste
China wants to keep Cambodia and Laos, independent Burma. US unwilling to give on that point unless all three gain independence or chance to vote for it.

Either agreement on the remaining proposals, or no answer has been given.

However, until UK, Italy and other allies agree, the talks are also somewhat deadlocked.

LTA refuses cease fire until a peace treaty is signed.

ooc
previous post to remind everyone what is on the table at the moment.

also, both sides blame the other for starting the war

Lansing grinned, "Actually, the Cherokee don't need our help to rebuild, they found oil in Oklahoma and they fairly rich now."
Kalinin removes his spectacles and rubs the bridge of his nose.

"You are remarkably skilled, Mr. Lansing, at failing to grasp the point. That's not even a satisfactory answer to a rhetorical question." He replaces his glasses, and lights another thin cigar.

"I suppose you regard blood for oil as a fair exchange. That is your point of view, I suppose, as repellent as it may be. But the fact remains that the Union is prepared to do, unasked, what the United States would never even consider, which is to rebuild what we have destroyed.

"Trieste may be granted a plebiscite, or given status as a free port. I do not think Laos and Cambodia should have a part in the European theater. And I may ask, sir, where are your colleagues? Do they not care for peace?"

OOC: sorry for missing the start of this, It was posted after I went to bed, in fact the first post was at 5.46 am for me. Anyway, i'll join these peace talks.

IC:

John Pimlott has been chosen to represent his Brittanic Majesty's United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland and it's Empire abroad. Mr. Pimlott has a distinguished reputation in the Foreign Office and has previously held the posts of High Commissioner to Canada, Australia and India as well as being the ambassador to the United States of America. Recently he headed the negotiations over the creation of the dominions of Ireland and India.

Mr Pimlott leads with Britain's proposals:

"Britain requests the immediate surrender of French armed forces to LTA forces in France and the temporary disbandment of the French military in addition to the handing over of West Africa to LTA control until the war is over. Britain would also demand the withdrawal of the Pact troops from British territory in India and also the area of Afghanistan. Once this has occured the Afghan people can hold a plebiscite over the future of the country. OOC: this continues, basically echoing US proposals.

"However Britain will not give Burma independence as a sovereign nation unless the neighbouring countries also do so and that Burma becomes a member of a newly formed Commonwealth of Nations consisting of ex-British Empire states who will benefit socially and economically from this arrangement and will be free in all foreign relations as long as they do not conflict with British interests. (Essentially our RL commonwealth and Canada, Australia, South Africa, New Zealand and Ireland will be the first dominions to be requested to hold a vote on whether to join with other territories joining at a later date)."

"As to other matters I concur with my American colleague and demand restrictions on ex-pact military be put in place and only then can peace be guaranteed"

OOC: a pretty crappy post, i'm sorry, but i'm just about to go for a driving lesson and then to school.

Minister Laureano Gomez stood to address Comrade Kalinin, lighting his own cigar.
"My Soviet Friend (You are considered Soviet, aye?) Mr Lansing's colleagues are right here."

Gomez now turned to the Yugoslavian Delegate. "There is no possibility for Yugoslavia to keep trieste, period. You have adopted a war of aggression and should not be rewarded anything for attacking and killing. We all lost soldiers, the difference is, Italy lost men defending his people. You lost men attempting to kill his people. Sounds like self-defence to Colombia, so explain to us why you should legally gain Trieste.

"Better yet, if you want to keep Trieste, Italy gets Sarejavo or Belgrade. How does that sound? Unfair? Well how surprising."

And finally, Gomez turned to Ambassador Lu Hong of China. "We will once more state our support of china in the matter of Cambodia and Laos. In regards with Burma... it is far more complicated. An election must be held, but we must also protect the Kachins. Therefore, Colombia proposes that Colombian observers ensure that no harm comes ot these northern tribes. If they elect to remain part of China or Britain, then that nation MUST protect the Kachins."

Lansing then looked levelly at the Chinese, "and Mr. Ambassador, if you are all for elections, than by all means, perhaps elections should be held in Mongolia, Tibet, Laos and Cambodia? Surely you won't deny the peoples of those nations the same rights you are so willing to provide the Burmese, even the primitive peoples living in the upper mountains near your border? At least the British protected them, who will protect them now from the Burmese if they gain independence."

ooc
the Burmese government has waged a war against the Kachins since indepedence, so its actually a real issue.

Lu Hong smiled as he gazed levelly upon Lansing.

"Ah, but the exact same could be argued for Alaska and Louisiana.

The United States acquired Louisiana in the exact same way China acquired Cambodia and Laos. You Americans purchased Louisiana from France, the same nation China acquired Cambodia and Laos from. You also purchased Alaska from Russia. Otherwise, asking China to give up Cambodia and Laos would be the exact same as having Alaska and Louisiana become their own nations. The Nation of Alaska, and the Nation of Louisiana.

There are indigieous people living in Alaska, which are Eskimos and Inuits. There were also indigieous people living in Louisiana at the time of the purchase, namely French citizens and the Native American tribes.

Cambodia and Laos have been and are going to be Chinese versions of the American Louisiana and Alaska. These two provinces will have a voice in the newly forming Chinese democracy system, very much like the American Louisiana and Alaska are part of the American nation."

Minister Laureano Gomez stood to address Comrade Kalinin, lighting his own cigar.
"My Soviet Friend (You are considered Soviet, aye?) Mr Lansing's colleagues are right here."

Gomez now turned to the Yugoslavian Delegate. "There is no possibility for Yugoslavia to keep trieste, period. You have adopted a war of aggression and should not be rewarded anything for attacking and killing. We all lost soldiers, the difference is, Italy lost men defending his people. You lost men attempting to kill his people. Sounds like self-defence to Colombia, so explain to us why you should legally gain Trieste.

"Better yet, if you want to keep Trieste, Italy gets Sarejavo or Belgrade. How does that sound? Unfair? Well how surprising."

And finally, Gomez turned to Ambassador Lu Hong of China. "We will once more state our support of china in the matter of Cambodia and Laos. In regards with Burma... it is far more complicated. An election must be held, but we must also protect the Kachins. Therefore, Colombia proposes that Colombian observers ensure that no harm comes ot these northern tribes. If they elect to remain part of China or Britain, then that nation MUST protect the Kachins."

"We find your opinion to be lacking in consideration, but we will respond all the same. How many Italians live in Sarajevo or Belgrad? Many Slovene people live under the umbrella of the Italian government, but we did succeed in liberating them. Do you think we joined this war just to fight? I dare to say not! It was to liberate our common man from the clutches of a government that has showed it's reliance on emotion rather than sound facts as it's tool of governing."

"We also DID take this land, and if the LTA can impose such cruel terms on the lands it took why cannot we do this one act of liberation?" Tito was very angry at the audacity of the Columbians to challenge his term with such a rediculas come back as putting Sarajevo or Belgrad into terms with a taken land.

Had his country men died for nothing? Maybe Columbia did not understand the act of liberation as they were a capitalist nation far far away fighting another country's war.

OoC: No, we're not Soviets, because our governmental system is different. No demonym other than "Russian" has ever really been developed for us, which is unfortunate, since Russian isn't really what we are.


IC
Kalinin turns to the Yugoslav.

"Comrade," he says, "you would do as well to argue with the barking of President Cox's bitch. Ignore this house slave."

"We find your opinion to be lacking in consideration, but we will respond all the same. How many Italians live in Sarajevo or Belgrad? Many Slovene people live under the umbrella of the Italian government, but we did succeed in liberating them. Do you think we joined this war just to fight? I dare to say not! It was to liberate our common man from the clutches of a government that has showed it's reliance on emotion rather than sound facts as it's tool of governing."

"We also DID take this land, and if the LTA can impose such cruel terms on the lands it took why cannot we do this one act of liberation?" Tito was very angry at the audacity of the Columbians to challenge his term with such a rediculas come back as putting Sarajevo or Belgrad into terms with a taken land.

Had his country men died for nothing? Maybe Columbia did not understand the act of liberation as they were a capitalist nation far far away fighting another country's war.

Lansing dryly points out that if it wasn't for all the blood the French, Germans and Russians shed, the Yugoslavs wouldn't have dreamed of attacking Italy to begin with.

Lu Hong smiled as he gazed levelly upon Lansing.

"Ah, but the exact same could be argued for Alaska and Louisiana.

The United States acquired Louisiana in the exact same way China acquired Cambodia and Laos. You Americans purchased Louisiana from France, the same nation China acquired Cambodia and Laos from. You also purchased Alaska from Russia. Otherwise, asking China to give up Cambodia and Laos would be the exact same as having Alaska and Louisiana become their own nations. The Nation of Alaska, and the Nation of Louisiana.

There are indigieous people living in Alaska, which are Eskimos and Inuits. There were also indigieous people living in Louisiana at the time of the purchase, namely French citizens and the Native American tribes.

Cambodia and Laos have been and are going to be Chinese versions of the American Louisiana and Alaska. These two provinces will have a voice in the newly forming Chinese democracy system, very much like the American Louisiana and Alaska are part of the American nation."

The differences between the Native Americans of the early 19th Century and the peoples of Laos and Cambodia are very stark. The Laotians and Cambodians had nations before the French came and made them colonies, and had a written language, and structured order of government much more advanced than wandering bands of savages. I will not debate history with you sir, and clearly you fail to understand that at the time of the Lousiana and Alaskan purchases there were more Americans living in both of those places than both the natives and the previous owners (the Russians, French and Spanish).

Something that can not be said about Cambodia and Laos.

The United States insists on the immediate withdrawal of Chinese forces from Burma, Laos and Cambodia so that they can enjoy the same promise of freedom so recently granted to Vietnam, and long enjoyed by Siam.

The statements from both the Yugoslavian and Russian representative, the Colombian representative leaves the conference, leaving the final remarks; "Communist fools don't know when to hold their tongue. They forget who came to them during their time of need."

Jacobus Fouché, called Jim by his friends, listened to the heated exchange for several moments. He was no great diplomatic orator like Jan Smuts, but his blunt and concise speech would get through even the thickest head. Looking around him, he hoped this was true.

"I believe that for these talks to move forward, beyond petty and childish insults," he said, looking first at the Russian and then the Yugoslav delegates, "both sides must realize the position they are currently in. The London Alliance has overrun every Pact overseas holding worth taking, conquered Spain, and now pushes France nearly over the brink. The Warsaw Pact, on the other hand, holds part of Burma, and some of northern Italy. Frankly, I do not see the Pact, specifically certain members, as being in a position to demand anything." The last remark was, of course, a thinly veiled insult to France.

OoC: As far as any good Russian communist is concerned, both Colombia and South Africa are nations beneath contempt. Moscow has long regarded Colombia as an American colony in all but name, and South Africa is merely an insignificant slave state. Both, as well, are nearly as far from Russia as it's possible to get, which provides even less incentive for respect.

Especially when they're insolent.

Nothing personal. But as far as Kalinin is concerned, the only important negotiators on the Allied side are Lansing and Pimlott, and maybe the Italian if and when he arrives.

IC
"One bitch leaves, and another takes her place, yelping at her master's command," Kalinin sneers.

"No Afrikaaner is in a position to determine what free men can and cannot do. Go back to whipping your blacks, why don't you, and leave negotiations for civilized men."

tag

"One bitch leaves, and another takes her place," Kalinin remarks.

"South Africa is in no position to determine what free men can and cannot do. Go back to whipping your blacks, why don't you, and leave begotiations for civilized men."


Fouché chuckled. "Ah, you seek to undermine my words, by maligning the Union as a nation of oppressors, by calling us the lapdogs of the Americans. Goede poging, I give you that. But in this aspect we are not so different. How many people have suffered under the rule of the Russians, I wonder? What of the Poles and the Finns, the Belorussians and the Kazhak? The Turkic peoples of central Asia? Dare I say, the Lithuanians? When will your 'civilized' nation give up its control over this sham abomination you call a Union, and allow those people the right to choose their own destiny independent of Moscow?

"But this bickering goes nowhere, I am afraid. The Americans have outlined terms of peace, and have been more amenable than is necessary to Pact protests. I again stress that you examine your position very throughly."

OOC: I would just like to point out that we never said ANY insults, so i would like for people to stop regarding us in that context, please read my post and you will see that Tito was just thinking those things, never saying it...give him some credit for diplomatic tact.

IC: "I agree with mister Fouché in that we need to stop the bickering, hopefully we can come to common terms and finish this bloody ordeal in a fashion that is best for the people not the governments."

Kalinin blinks at the Afrikaaner, as if seeing him for the first time. Fouché's reaction appears to have surprised him.

"As it happens, there are many in the Union who would not regard me as Russian at all, but as a Jew. I know a thing or two about oppression.

"Be that as it may, Moskva has agreed in principle to all the American proposals peritnent to Europe, pending only the modification of security provisions for France to something modest yet reasonable. We had been making progress, there, before the arguments started." He glances pointedly at Lansing before continuing. "We would support a plebiscite on Trieste, or giving it the status of a free city. The Azores and Madeira are not worth spilling blood over, so far as we are concnered, and we have no opinion on Laos and Cambodia - this talk of buying and selling nations and peoples makes me rather queasy, frankly.

"What else remains?"

"As my predecessor stated, France will give up all claims on the overseas colonies currently under LTA occupation and turn them over to the governments occupying them. In addition, we will also accept the limitations placed on our airforce. However, we reject any occupation of French soil after the war has ended. We would also ask that the tonnage limitation be increased to 15,000 in the case of our navy. That is all that France asks.

"We suport the independence of Vietnam, following a referandum to determine how they would choose to sepearate themselves from CHina. But we must stand firm with the Chinese: Laos and Cambodia were sold before the war to China and are now integrated into their nation. They will remain part of China."

The Ottoman Government wanted to enter the conference as neutral power to try to help in the peace process. They send the President of the Ottoman Senate Ghazi Mustafa Kemal Pasha. He enter the conference when it already in meeting, he was delay by some last minutes debates in the Ottoman Senate.

He nodded to the Russian, Chinese, Yugoslav, German and French envoys on the Pact side, as for the LTA side, he just nodded only to the British and the South African envoys. He listen to the debates and said the following

" Gentleman, let us stop this pointless insulting and get on to the main topic at hand...peace...we all want it..but some of us..wanted only their foes to be broken and begging for mercy, then agree to peace.( He looked at the Yankee Envoy and the British Enovy) This war has cost so much and kill so many innocent lives for just some bloody islands and a few outpost in North Africa. For the stake of peace I state that Pact nation must agree to the reasonable peace agreement, that insure that France is not occupy by LTA. Yet I state that the LTA must not so bloody blind with thinking that they won the war already..its a long way from that point. I said to you all Peace at home, peace in the world."

the LTA position may go up in flames...ive been rereading the 'Invasion' of Spain and it looks too easy...

OOC: The absence of Fluffywuffy is really putting a strain on things. Sooner or later we are going to have to deal with it. I propose that if he does not respond by Saturday, he automatically agrees to the LTA demands. He did get pretty beat up.

IC: Major-General Reichmann waved his hand in front of his face and coughed. "All this smoke has clogged both your minds and your senses! Do you not know that smoking is nothing but the Capitalist oppressors destroying your body for money! It even plagues the leaders of the LTA’s governments! I beg you all to put out these fires and begin to work together to put out the fires of Europe as well. In the meantime, I propose a healthy dose of tea for all of us. It cleanses the mind and soul.

That aside, it has come to my attention that it is but minor things in lands far away from us both that plague these discussions. The problem of Cambodia, Laos, and Burma can easily be solved by democracy, if that is something the Emperor desires. I propose that the Chinese be given a choice. They can continue to lay claim to Burma, but must allow elections in Burma, Cambodia, and Laos. The problem of Trieste can just as easily be solved with similar methods. The citizens of Trieste should be given a choice: To remain a part of Italy, to join the honorable Yugoslavian Federation or to be given status as a free city, to be open to trade to both Italy and Yugoslavia.

The matter of the Azores and Madiera, while hurting my heart greatly, is not something that should stand in the way of peace. Thus, I will be contacting the American delegate soon about the fate of those islands.

Lastly, there is something that begs to be answered. Over the past quarter century, so much strife has been caused because of nations’ fearfulness of other nations violating their “areas.” In the beginning, when my predecessors punished Venezuela for violating law and refusing to pay honorable debts, the United States became unsteady and nearly violent, nearly causing the American people to join the vile war nearly 20 years ago. The reason the first Great War started was because the Empire of Austria-Hungary violated Russia’s sphere of protection. The Albanian government, while rightfully so, was overthrown because of Italy’s intrusion into the Balkans, a soverign land of the Workers. These any many issue pertaining to nations’ designated space has caused more wars and strife in this century than anything else. Thus, I propose the Duel Hemispheres Treaty.”


He pulled out a map of the world labeled. “It goes as such:

- The Western Hemisphere, Antartica, The Pacific Ocean, and Southern Africa, as well as the United Kingdom of Great Britain and the Dominion of India be designated as the Anglo Hemisphere (or some other name equally appropriate).
- The Continent of Eurasia, excluding the land south of the Alps, including Scandinavia, Central Asia, Indochina, China, and the Middle East be designated as the Grand People’s Hemisphere (or some other name equally appropriate).
- Neither Hemisphere will interfere in the business of the other for any means, other than the protection of expatriates and commercial interests, unless requested by a member of the corresponding hemisphere.

It is a treaty that allow for America to feel safe from our involvement in the Americas and reinforces the Monroe Doctrine, while allows us to protect the Workers in Eurasia without trouble from the LTA. It is a plan that is fair to all sides.”

General Reichmann sat down.

OOC: would be out of line to send a Japanese delegate to observe as a neutral, they did fight in the war after all?

the LTA position may go up in flames...ive been rereading the 'Invasion' of Spain and it looks too easy...

ooc
keep posts in this thread on topic.... things relating to the war thread go there or in the main thread... and look over the invasion again and read what I wrote in both the war thread (where EVERY SINGLE MOVE WAS EXPLAINED) and in the main thread

OOC: would be out of line to send a Japanese delegate to observe as a neutral, they did fight in the war after all?

ooc
seems reasonable to me

ooc
seems reasonable to me


IC: *The Japanese Delegate, Hiroshi Yamamoto arrives in time to hear the German delegates proposal*

General your plan has merit, though the Empire of Nippon requests that in that plan that Nippon, Korea and China be put in their own sphere of non-LTA and Non-pact interference, and if an independent Burma comes out of this war that they be placed there as well. That is if it is agreeable to my distinguished Chinese and Korean Colleges(OOC: is korea going to show up?)
This would also allow a buffer so to speak between the other spheres in the future so that they do not overlap in too many areas.

Parthini']OOC: The absence of Fluffywuffy is really putting a strain on things. Sooner or later we are going to have to deal with it. I propose that if he does not respond by Saturday, he automatically agrees to the LTA demands. He did get pretty beat up.

we may have to go with that

Kalinin looks over at Reichmann and puffs placidly on his thin cigar for a few moments before turning to Yamamoto-san.

"Certainly Moskva would favor any provisions that would serve to reduce competitiveness in East Asia."

Lu Hong addressed several delegates in his next speech.

"China would like to make several things clear.

First, with the American intentions regarding Cambodia and Laos. These provinces were integrated into Greater China years before this Great War that has claimed the lives of millions. Your claim regarding Louisiana and Alaska is somewhat unfounded, as I shall explain.

You say that there were more Americans living in Alaska and Louisiana than the natives. The exact same can be said for Cambodia and Laos. Upon being made into provinces, several million Chinese have migrated to Cambodia and Laos to build a better life there with farming, trading, and other professions. You Americans did the very same thing with Louisiana and Alaska with migrations and integration.

To put it in other perspective, once China completes its democratication process, Cambodia and Laos will be treated exactly like you Americans treat your 48 states. The Cambodians and Laos people will be able to govern themselves just like your 48 states govern themselves, but they will comprise a greater whole, a part of Greater China, just like all of your 48 states make up the United States of America. The Cambodians and Laos people will have freedom to do as they want, and have independence up to the point of no secession, which I am pretty sure you Americans have done so with your states after the Civil War.

We are more alike in our goals than you may think, Lansing."

Lu Hong turned towards the German delegate.

"China does not foresee any problems with the LTA Hemisphere and the Pact Hemisphere. However, we need a truly neutral place on this planet where people may be able to meet on ground not sacred to either side. For this, I propose that Antartica be made into a pure neutral region. LTA and Pact are not to claim Antarctica- after all, it is impossible to establish civilization there, is it not?"

Lu Hong finally addresses his contemporary Japanese counterpart.

"Greetings, honorable Yamamoto.

China has always been interested in creating a stable Asia, and your proposal seems worthwhile. After all, despite our issue with our original treaty, we have remained good friends, and I hope that we will be able to fill in the small crevass between our two peoples.

China has no problem with Korea or a potentially independent Burma joining the Asian Hemisphere. That decision of joining shall be up to Korea and Burma if they do desire to join us."

Lu Hong sat back down slightly exhausted after addressing three major delegates.

Lansing is still pondering the latest German proposal when an aide enters the room and briskly walks over to hand him a note. He notices another note is passed at the same time to the British delegation. He reads it carefully.

"Gentlemen, the situation on the battlefield remains in flux. At this time the United States rejects both the German and Chinese proposals and will continue the fight. The reason is simple." He took a moment to stand.

"Apparently the Russians seem to think they can settle the Afghanistan and Burma question by conquering India. We will see I suppose. Obviously a cease fire is out of the question at the moment, and I will have to request instructions from my government, as will I am sure my collegues from the other LTA nations represented here." With that, Lansing and the American delegation returned to the US embassy and refused to continue talks for several days, claiming ill health and communications delays.

ooc
this occurs in early January, during the Phase 1 Pact South Asian turn, he wil be more cheered up by the news from Burma later though during the Allied phase 2 turn (in February). Although I am sure the Russians will be too during their phase 2 turn in India.

Remember these talks are taking place over several weeks as the war continues, and it would appear the Burma question is settled at least. We now however have an Indian question to go along with the Afghanistan question. Complicated ending a war isn't it?

OOC: Well shucks. I had a good thing going too. You at least pondered it this time :P

So it seems that the only problem is India, no? Everything else is solved?

The Argentine delegation, consisting of one Dr. Emelio Ortega and several of his staffers, arrives late, to find proposals already laid out on the table. Finding the German one, and learning of the various responses, he starts to worry. "No, no, no, no! Argentina cannot allow any such Hemispheres to form, unless Argentina and it's territory were part of an additional such hemisphere. This sounds too much like a plan to carve up the world, and the name Anglo-Hemisphere smacks to much of US domination.

"Rather, I suggest that all nations should retain their soverignty to decide for themselves who they are willing to have 'interfering' with them. And if that encrouches on anyone's 'hemisphere' then so be it. Argentina will not belong to anything where Argentina is not in control of it's own destiny."

He also takes the time to push for France to give up Eastern Africa to South Africa, in exchange for reparations or compensation perhapse.

(ATTN: Great Britain) In addition, he privately talks to the British delegate during a lull in the negotiations, suggesting that due to South Africa's brave and commendable defence of British interests, that Britain would do well to reward them by granting them full rights as their own nation... With a strategic alliance between them, Britain and Argentina of cource.

(ATTN: Union) Also, he pulls the Union delegate asside and suggests a ceasefire in India, until the negotiations are complete.

Parthini']OOC: Well shucks. I had a good thing going too. You at least pondered it this time :P

So it seems that the only problem is India, no? Everything else is solved?
OoC: By no means. The Americans are stalling to try gain more of an advantage in the field. Just as I was advancing in India for the same reasons. That's how these things work.

IC
Kalinin stubs out his cigar as the American departs.

"They insist that offensive operations will continue during the negotiations and then sulk like spoiled children when they do. Can anything rival the arrogance? Akh."

Kalinin stands.

"Gentlemen, I hope we will resume as soon as possible. Good day."

Kalinin departs.

ooc
due to the stomach flu the US player will not be conducting negotiations today

The Major General stands and chuckles to himself. "It seems, Herr Ortega, that you are already enveloped in a sphere of influence, dominated solely by Anglos. Otherwise, you would not have joined such a ridiculous alliance, fuelled by some Anglo's false sense of insecurity, and thus be forced to join a further ridiculous and tragic war, over an Anglo's greedy ambition to rule the seas, something which was told to my fellow Worker's several years ago, when we rightfully claimed the Artic Ocean and the North Pole as a land safe from Kapitalist Oppression."

"No, the Hemispheres were completely based on the actual areas of influence that already occur. South America, as has been told to my fellow Teutons for the past Quarter-Century, is America's playground, and was not open to any other nation. It has already been proven with the poor helpless Brazilians and the hapless Venezuelans, who even now, are being subjected to obvious Imperialism, by the Greatest of Lapdogs himself! My dear Herr Ortega, to me, it seems you have made friends with the wrong side."

Cleaning his monacle, he continued. "It seems that while talks have died down, the war continues. I wish you all a fond farewell, for now."

With that, he departed to read news of the War.

(ATTN: Great Britain) In addition, he privately talks to the British delegate during a lull in the negotiations, suggesting that due to South Africa's brave and commendable defence of British interests, that Britain would do well ito reward them by granting them full rights as their own nation... With a strategic alliance between them, Britain and Argentina of cource.

Mr. Pimlott, once complete secrecy has been assured, quickly runs over the post war plans of the British Empire with the Argentinian delegate. These include the granting of independence to many of the Dominions, including South Africa, Canada, Australia, New Zealand and maybe Ireland and India depending on how the war ends as well as the granting of British African Possessions dominion status (Split into British East and West Africa) and greater independence. A Commonwealth of Nations is to be formed to ally these new nations in one aim and to further teh economic development of the world.

The Argentinian delegate is assured that all dominion prime ministers know of these plans for the future and is thanked for his curiosity into this matter as well as for his dedication to the cause of the LTA and his honouring of the alliance.

--------------------------------------------

A large envelope is passed to the British delegation by a British civil servent who has recently rushed into the conference during a lull in proceedings. The British delegation immediately spurs into action and Mr. John Pimlott stands up to speak.

Mr Pimott puts forwards a further set of British demands against pact nations:

-All pact forces be limited in military strength as stated by the honourable Mr. Lansing
-Britain demands that all French African territory be transferred to LTA control in addition to currently conquered territory and that said territory be controlled by the LTA powers after the war on a shared basis with a central administration centre for each power (think Germany post-WWII)
-All Pact troops to withdraw to pre-war borders
-Western India to be returned to control of the Dominion of India
-A plebiscite to be scheduled in Burma and Afgahnistan regarding their future
-France and Spain to remain under LTA occupation for not less than 10 years after the end of the war
-Appropriate reparations to be exacted from Pact countries to help to offset the cost of the war to the LTA
-ex-German colonial possessions to be transferred to LTA control in the same manner as French possessions

Mr.Pimlott takes up the rest of the day going over the minutai of detail of his terms and states some vague plans for the future as well as reopening the arguement over the shape of the table and the catering arrangements for delegates. A particularly long arguement is presented by Mr. Pimlott as to why he would like to see less fish on the delegate's menu and more red meat.

British contibutions wil continue in this fashion.

A large envelope is passed to the British delegation by a British civil servent who has recently rushed into the conference during a lull in proceedings. The British delegation immediately spurs into action and Mr. John Pimlott stands up to speak.

Mr Pimott puts forwards a further set of British demands against pact nations:

-All pact forces be limited in military strength as stated by the honourable Mr. Lansing
-Britain demands that all French African territory be transferred to LTA control in addition to currently conquered territory and that said territory be controlled by the LTA powers after the war on a shared basis with a central administration centre for each power (think Germany post-WWII)
-All Pact troops to withdraw to pre-war borders
-Western India to be returned to control of the Dominion of India
-A plebiscite to be scheduled in Burma and Afgahnistan regarding their future
-France and Spain to remain under LTA occupation for not less than 10 years after the end of the war
-Appropriate reparations to be exacted from Pact countries to help to offset the cost of the war to the LTA
-ex-German colonial possessions to be transferred to LTA control in the same manner as French possessions

Mr.Pimlott takes up the rest of the day going over the minutai of detail of his terms and states some vague plans for the future as well as reopening the arguement over the shape of the table and the catering arrangements for delegates. A particularly long arguement is presented by Mr. Pimlott as to why he would like to see less fish on the delegate's menu and more red meat.

British contibutions wil continue in this fashion.

Lu Hong responded to the British.

"China is prepared to pay reparations to the Australians for the loss of their naval squadron, over two or three years as per Lansing's original condition.

We also have no problem with Burma holding a plebisicite election to determine its future. China shall and will abide with the decision of the Burmese people."

Yamamoto-san(i hope i'm using the -san thing correctly) furiously argues back that there should be more fish not less in the cuisine as eating fish is higher in protein and healthier and not to mention stimulates Brain activity, arguing that we need fit smart delegates not fat and stupid fools.

The Plaestinian Delegate arrives to observe the proceedings, and quietly sits.

Delbos utterly rejects the conditions proposed by the BRitish.

"France OCCUPIED for ten years or more? NEVER! We will not give in to the imperialistic demands of the British! We will fight to the death if needs be, but we will not allow our country to be occupied by the simpering British fools who believe that they can simply walk over France's national pride and idenity."

Delbos utterly rejects the conditions proposed by the BRitish.

"France OCCUPIED for ten years or more? NEVER! We will not give in to the imperialistic demands of the British! We will fight to the death if needs be, but we will not allow our country to be occupied by the simpering British fools who believe that they can simply walk over France's national pride and idenity."


Yamamato-san quietly interjects. "Like the Prussians walked over your national pride and occupied half your country in 1870 after nearly burning Paris to the ground?"

Kemel made quick comment to the French Envoy in French

"The British Empire and their lacky states are only in this war for the land and to disarm their long time foes and make them feel lower to them...its all part of British Imperialist nature...its ironic..thought..we all here for a some bloody islands.."

The Palestinian delegate, Achmed Qadir, having gone to a university in France, nods in agreement with the Turk, replying in the same language. "The Americans started this war with their brinksmanship."

Lansing looks over at the 2 Middle Eastern delegates. "I wasn't aware that your two nations were at war. Perhaps I am missing something?

As to the plebisite in Burma, the US is not interested in that at this time, as that issue has been settled by force of arms. However it would seem fair that China pay reparations to repair the economy of Burma, which through their occupation they caused to be wrecked.

However, in the mind of the United States, this is a global war, and there will be no peace in Europe if there is war in Asia."

Yamamoto-san(i hope i'm using the -san thing correctly) furiously argues back that there should be more fish not less in the cuisine as eating fish is higher in protein and healthier and not to mention stimulates Brain activity, arguing that we need fit smart delegates not fat and stupid fools.

Mr. Pimlott argues that whilst fish may well stimulate brain activity he has yet to see scientific evidence for this case and perhaps an expert dietician should be brought in to solve this problem and at least a week set aside to it's discussion?

As he is informed of the change in circumstances in Burma, Mr. Pimlott hurriedly goes back on his promise for a Burmese plebescite and ddemands that China be forced to pay reparations to rebuild the Burmese industry and economy that they have wrecked.

Major General Reichmann returns to hear the mindless discussion about fish and meat.

"God damn you fools! You bicker and argue over the most minor of things while your workers die for your imperialist gains, to achieve nothing but 'national pride' and a shiny medal congratulating them for getting their arm blown off! Eat what you wish, but do not stall so important a discussion, solely for your own selfish desires!"

He took a sip of tea and continued.

"Now, before I departed, I presented a Duel Hemispheres Treaty to stall this from ever occurring. Apparently, the American was too excited with his own petty gains in the shithole called Burma to realize something that could change the world. Now, would the floor like to discuss this, or shall we bicker about the color of our napkins!"

Kalinin, who had returned quietly, rubs his brow as if trying to dispel a headache.

"Herr Reichmann," he says quietly in German, "Your heart is in the right place, but your emotional delivery does our cause little good. If you cannot keep your frustration in check, perhaps another negotiator would do better."

He then looks sharply at the Englishman.

"Mr. Pimlott, you obviously have no purpose here beyond preventing productive work from being done by the rest of us. Do you really think the mothers of England will thank you for prolonging the slaughter of their sons? Your 'positions' are outrageous and unprincipled and clearly intended to forestall any accord between the belligerents.

"British troops intending to remain on French soil for ten years or more will do so only by prolonging the war for ten years or more - it matters not whether Paris agrees or no, the land itself will reject you, and you know it.

"Burma was promised independence, and now you renege. We see now your true face, the face of a slaver. But the Age of Slavery is fallen, and again, if you try to suppress a free people, the land itself will reject you. Sir, you disgust me with your obstructionism, your greed, and your callous disregard for human life and suffering. Feast upon all the bloody flesh you want, while your countrymen and mine are dying. Your days are numbered."

To the German Delegate

"It's Doctor Ortega, if you don't mind sir. I've worked too hard getting my degree to have it so calously tossed aside. And the next time the US interferes in Argentine affairs will be the first this century. Argentina has a history of independant actions, and a history of honoring it's friendships and treaties. (He stares at the French delegate as he says this.) We've worked too long to be independant of foreign control to ever agree to something that would carve up the world."

Later to the Assembly

"My fellow friends and opponents, we stand here argueing and bickering about the shape the world will be in, and while we do, war continues to ravage the continents. Does not the fact that we are here, together, to discuss the outcome of this war, necessarily say that we are tired of the current conflict? Does it not say that any further bloodshed will be for naught?

"Join me therefor, in calling for a ceasefire on all fronts until at the earliest July. Even in a time of barbarism such as this, perhapse we can show that even our baser disagreements can be handled in a civilized fashon."

Argentine Proposal

France
-France will give up her claim to her remaining African Colonies to the LTA, which will be divided between Morocco, Britain, Italy and South Africa.
-In recompense for this, France will be permitted five (5) capital ships to defend herself from foreign threats.
-For the purpose of this treaty, capital ships are to be designated as any vessel that would be designated a Battleship, Battlecruser, or Carrier by any reasonable navy.
-France will be allowed to form a small army (2 Corps) to defend it's currently held territory.
-LTA forces will pull out of France by 1930, beginning in 1928.
-After the pullout, France will be allowed to increase the size of it's Army to 5 Corps.
-Reserve forces are not permitted.

Germany
-The Azores is ceded to the LTA, with compensation paid for said land.
-German ships are allowed the use of the Argentine "Flag of Convenience" in transfering some military aid (no more than 3 points / year) to Brazil.
-Germany promises not to interfere in Latin American Affairs for 20 years, unless asked by Colombia, Argentina, or the US.
-Imediate withdrawl from Italian soil.
-Germany's armed forces may be restored status quo antebellum

USDR
-Imediate withdrawl from Indian/Afghan soil.
-Afghanistan made independant nation, with an interum govenment to consist of one (1) Union representative and one (1) British representative to act as the Executive Branch.
-Each of these representatives have veto power over a legislature comprised of Afghan citizens.
-A plebescite will be held in 1930 to determine Afghanistan's independance or master.
-Return of armed forces to status quo antebellum

China
-Return of armed forces to status quo antebellum execpt for the following.
-No naval ships over 10,000 tons for 5 years.
-May build up to 4 capital ships by 1932.
-For the purpose of this treaty, capital ships are to be designated as any vessel that would normally be designated a Battleship, Battlecruser, or Carrier by any reasonable navy.
-Restrictions lifted on shipbuilding by 1938. (Edited due to China's loss of Burma)

Yugoslavia
-Imediate withdrawl from Italian soil.
-Return of forces to status quo antebellum

Also, a diet high in beef is suggested, as beef aids the consitution.

Kalinin nods respectfully at the Argentinean.

"Dr. Ortega, it gladdens me to see that there remain civilized and sensible men among our foes. For myself, I should prefer to see France allowed perhaps as much as five corps of reserves in addition to its standing army, but the Union will otherwise agree to these terms if the British and Americans will."

Yamamato looks at his napkins "No I see no need in discussing napkins, white seems an appropriate color"

Proposal Above is revised as Argentina becomes aware of British victories in Burma.

Colombia will return to the table, having caught word of the Argentinian proposals.

Yamamoto receives a note from one of his aids, he looks troubled for a moment and then composes himself and patiently awaits the return of the USA Delegation

Fouché sat for a moment, digesting the information and proposals being batted back and forth. Finally, he decided to speak up. Though unspoken, it is made very clear that South Africa will oppose anything deemed as further concessions to the Pact.

"Though I can say nothing binding, I do have some concern over the Argentine Proposal. As a whole, I suppose it is agreeable, but I am worried that Germany and Russia each will be allowed to return their armed forces to the status quo antebellum, when it is they who have wrought the most damage in Italy. And yes, Mynheer Yamamato, white is a very agreeable color for the napkins." He briefing glanced at Kalinin while wearing a smug half-grin.

OOC: Artitsa Tito never insulted Colombia, don't forget that

IC: "Yugoslavia also agrees to the plan, Yugoslavia has no quelms about this since it seems that Trieste won't be freed for awhile."

He briefing glanced at Kalinin while wearing a smug half-grin.
?

OOC: He's just being a racist ass. ;)

ooc
if no contact by Fluffywuffy by tomorrow midnight, I am afraid that we will have to act for him. At that point the Italians will accept or not based on the current LTA position.

The Colombian delegate returns, sitting quietly beside Doctor Ortega. He immediatly begins to converse with his Latin-American ally, wishing to be brought up on everything proposed.

Delbos confers quietly with his aide and then speaks, "The Republic of France is prepared to accept these terms, with the provision that we be allowed a single corps of reserves."

Private discussion with Sr. Laureano Gomez

We've put together a proposal, which I believe will be the best chance to establish peace before too many more people die in this war. Frankly, while I can understand the mentality of the US and Britain in their harsher terms, or the passionate feelings of my South African collegue, we're not going to get anywhere dictating harsh terms with Germany and Russia, both of which are far from defeated. Even China, while facing an initial loss, is still a huge threat to us if we don't placate it quickly.

Both I and the President have every confidence that the LTA would manage to eventualy take every city, and knock out every pocket of Pact resistance, but at what cost? Sr. Gomez, are you willing to support Argentina's proposal? I really think it is the best way to save lives in the long run, as well as the short term.

Response to Minister Yvon Delbos

I believe that the current arrangement is more than satisfactory to the defense of your nation, unless you are planning additional agressive actions abroad.

Privately
Frankly, Minister Delbos, I think this is the best proposal you are going to get, and I even doubt highly that the EUs or British will even go along with it. How about we compromise, if we add a provision allowing an additional 3 Corps, made entirely of reserves to be allowed in 1938, and a freedom of restrictions by 1945?

Let me tell you this, Argentina hasn't really liked your nation since it pulled that little stunt during the Uruguay Incident. Now, that's no reason we can't be cordial, but I will say this, we'd be more than happy to see you overrun with British forces, with harsher terms dictated at the point of a gun. But both I and the President agree that the interests of Argentina are better served in reestablishing peace, as opposed to the deaths of countless more young men on either side. And women, right that whole integrated army thing...

So if you ask me, you should quickly support this, and press Germany, Yugoslavia and China to do the same. Hopefully I can round up enough people on my side that can see a peace now is better than a peace five million deaths later, and pressure the US and Britain to accept these terms.

Discussion with Heer Jacobus Fouché, Private

Of cource, the Pact rearming themselves is a serious consideration, one that cannot be taken lightly. But we need to think about our own needs here. How many South African soldiers will die in China, in India, in Europe, so that our larger friends can get their measure of revenge. Forget all the propaganda, all the bluster, all the "Kill the Barbarian Horde" posters for a minute and consider, how does a fully armed Germany or Russia affect you?

Africa is about to become a British Continent, France is going to be castrated even by our generous proposal, and China's naval arm is, at best, laughable. Germany and Russia don't even have the crusing range to reach East Africa, let alone fight a skirmish with your navy.

In short, I can only see how this proposal will benefit us, the little guys who are doing the fighting and the dying so that the US and Britain can have their final revenge. As sad and selfish as that sounds, we need to look out for our own skins in this. Let the Germans and Russians rebuild, Britain and the US will sink their fleets again, and again.

You need to get in touch with your leader and ask candidly, "What are we in this war for?" Argentina knows it's answer, and it isn't world domination. We're here because British territories are under attack. This proposal solves that problem, and damned if either me or the President care for kicking the Russians or the Germans while their down, as long as what we've come into this war for is taken care of.

Please, sir, reconsider your objections. We have a real chance here for peace, and I suggest we grab it with both hands.

Tito could not see the Argentine reasoning in why a national guard like unit should not be allowed "Reserves would only be used as defensive forces, i hardly think that a group of soldiers only called up when war has been declared against their mother country should be seen as a threat! No matter what though we find the Argentinian proposal to be satisfactory and will accept it without contention." With that Tito sat and awaited the LTA comeback.

Major General Reichmann stood. "The Workers of Germany are in agreement with the generous and humane Argentinian's position. My kind Doctor, I apologise for taking you so lightly. Your education and tact are apparent to me and I humbly apologise."

"However, I am curious. To what nation will the Azores and Madiera be handed to?"

Discussion with Heer Jacobus Fouché, Private

<snip>

Private Response

You and I both know, and our respective governments know, that this war is solely for the interests of Britain and America. If we had our way, the Europeans would have killed each other off in Napoleon's day and left us to ourselves. But that is not the case.

We are fighting beside Britain now because we lost our last war. Personally, and the Prime Minister agrees, I could give less than a damn if the communists seize the whole of the Eurasian continent. If this proposal is accepted by the Pact, I will offer the Union's support.

If this war goes on long enough, the Europeans will be gravely weakened. Weakened enough that South Africa may be able to gain the independence that is rightfully ours. They have offered it to us, but no intelligent South African trusts the British. We can't, after what they did to us thirty years ago. I want this war to weaken our colonial masters, to guarantee our freedom. That is why the Union fights, Dr. Ortega.

Parthini']"However, I am curious. To what nation will the Azores and Madiera be handed to?"

Fouché thought for a moment. "Perhaps a multinational governance, for the time being, at least? To avoid concerns about any one nations using the islands to their explicit advantage."

Parthini']Major General Reichmann stood. "The Workers of Germany are in agreement with the generous and humane Argentinian's position. My kind Doctor, I apologise for taking you so lightly. Your education and tact are apparent to me and I humbly apologise."

"However, I am curious. To what nation will the Azores and Madiera be handed to?"

Lansing replied, "They will go to the Republic of Portugal, and the United States will have a basing lease in both locations. The United States will not budge on this issue."

Delbos sighs. After the private discussion, he knows that he cannot help to hold out for better terms.

"Very well. France will acccept the terms put forward by the good Doctor. I would like to ask one question, however: if we are attacked would we be allowed to call up more troops or would the limitations still be in place?"

"Hmm... reminiscant of the Danish Islands... no matter. I would like to discuss matters not pertaining to discussions of peace."

Aside to Mr Landsing

Herr Landsing, as I have stated before, the Azores, for the past 20 years have provided more than just a base for petty militaristic aims. They were a port for ships of the sea and sky. They provided a link between the Fatherland and our Latin Brethren in Venezuela and Brazil. We even have plans to reestablish relations between our two Republics by the sky. While Zeppelins are finished in war, they remain useful in peace. Thus, we desire to discuss the issue of the Azores, separately, between our nations and the nation of Portugal. Your thoughts?"

Parthini']"Hmm... reminiscant of the Danish Islands... no matter. I would like to discuss matters not pertaining to discussions of peace."

Aside to Mr Landsing

Herr Landsing, as I have stated before, the Azores, for the past 20 years have provided more than just a base for petty militaristic aims. They were a port for ships of the sea and sky. They provided a link between the Fatherland and our Latin Brethren in Venezuela and Brazil. We even have plans to reestablish relations between our two Republics by the sky. While Zeppelins are finished in war, they remain useful in peace. Thus, we desire to discuss the issue of the Azores, separately, between our nations and the nation of Portugal. Your thoughts?"

"The US has no interest in maintaining German links to your brethen, as you say, in Latin America. Although I see no reason why German airliners and Zeppelins carrying passengers would not have landing rights like any other civilian air carrier."

Kalinin clears his throat.

"Mr. Lansing," he calls. "Do we have the basis for a ceasefire? The Union is agreeable to the Argentine proposal."

Chatzy anyone? (http://www.chatzy.com/684093003041)

Kalinin clears his throat.

"Mr. Lansing," he calls. "Do we have the basis for a ceasefire? The Union is agreeable to the Argentine proposal."

"Without the approval of the other nations of the LTA, the United States cannot agree at this time. In addition, some of the terms must be studied further."

"Mr. Lansing, do you think me a complete fool?" Kalinin replies, throwing up his hands in disgust. "The other nations will follow Washington's lead. If you do not agree, have at least the manhood to say so honestly."

"The US has no interest in maintaining German links to your brethen, as you say, in Latin America. Although I see no reason why German airliners and Zeppelins carrying passengers would not have landing rights like any other civilian air carrier."

"That shouldv'e been obvious to us both. However, considering the Azores were legally acquired by that same Portuguese Governement which is being returned, even with recompensation, we request that any Azoreans, which under the law of the Revolution of 1919, declares that any Azorean or Madieran living in such lands, is a Union Citizen and recieves such rights and responsibilities, be allowed a chance to return to the motherland without cost to said persons. We also request that a Union Port be created in the Azores, that would be maintained by Azorean citizens to be under protection of the Union, that would allow Union domestic vessels to dock and refuel under cost of the Union. A quarterly payment would be allocated to the Portuguese government in return for such allowances. Surely this peaceful operation would be pleasing to the eyes of all of us?"

Parthini']"That shouldv'e been obvious to us both. However, considering the Azores were legally acquired by that same Portuguese Governement which is being returned, even with recompensation, we request that any Azoreans, which under the law of the Revolution of 1919, declares that any Azorean or Madieran living in such lands, is a Union Citizen and recieves such rights and responsibilities, be allowed a chance to return to the motherland without cost to said persons. We also request that a Union Port be created in the Azores, that would be maintained by Azorean citizens to be under protection of the Union, that would allow Union domestic vessels to dock and refuel under cost of the Union. A quarterly payment would be allocated to the Portuguese government in return for such allowances. Surely this peaceful operation would be pleasing to the eyes of all of us?"

"The short answer to your request is no. However, any person living in the Azores or Madiera who wish to leave, will have their expenses paid to do so."

"The Pact is ready to make peace. Why does the LTA delay in doing so as well?"

"The short answer to your request is no. However, any person living in the Azores or Madiera who wish to leave, will have their expenses paid to do so."

OOC: C'mon. That took me a really long time to write up.

Ok, so, the way I see it, America won't let Portugal lease a commercial naval-air station to the Union. That sure seems like a violation of a nation's soverignty. I think this, as it doens't pertain to the peace talks, should be put up to the Mods for discussion.

Parthini']OOC: C'mon. That took me a really long time to write up.

Ok, so, the way I see it, America won't let Portugal lease a commercial naval-air station to the Union. That sure seems like a violation of a nation's soverignty. I think this, as it doens't pertain to the peace talks, should be put up to the Mods for discussion.
OoC: What is your obsession with those damn islands? Moscow's not going to support you.

OoC: What is your obsession with those damn islands? Moscow's not going to support you.

I'm easily smitten...

Whatever. Stubborn bastard.

Parthini']I'm easily smitten...

Whatever. Stubborn bastard.

ooc
oddly enough, my wife would agree with you at times

OOC: Maybe she should play the US sometimes...:rolleyes:

Parthini']OOC: Maybe she should play the US sometimes...:rolleyes:

ooc
she is a lot more stubborn than I am and far more bloodthirsty and competive in a game

Yamamoto looks directly at the US delegation,"Mr. Lansing, my government wishes to inquire why the massive battlefleet, which seems to be the bulk of the United States Navy, has remained in the Phillipines after the last pact surface force has been interned for the remainder of the war. Submarines may remain(OOC: i'm pretty sure actually there aren't any) but to what purpose does this battlefleet serve? My nation and yours prior to our recent unpleasantness has had a strong alliance, and we fully understand your anger at not being able to use my countrymen as cannon fodder to distract the Russians. So we ask again what is the purpose of this large force and does the United States wish to enter into a war with the Empire of Nippon? Does the USN wish to destroy the IJN because they are the only sizeable non-LTA navy left? These are very important questions that need answered if there is to be a peace in Asia, especially if the United States wishes for that peace. Though judging by the positions the United States government has taken in this conference I do not believe the United States wants peace anywhere, and though claiming to be a democracy and wishing to liberate nations wherever it can, the United States remains in possesion with the largest island empire in the Pacific. The Phillipines, were promised that in 1946 they would gain their independence from the United States, this promise was made nearly 20 years ago(OOC: I think). Why must freedom for the Phillipines take 40 years? And while I am on the topic of Pacific Islands, I will bring up the other island chains in the Pacific that the United States has purchased in the last 20 years, the Marshals, the Carolines, French Tahiti and etc. Will these territories ever gain their indpendence? How is purchasing these territories any different than China purchasing Laos and Cambodia? How is China in the wrong for occupying Laos and Cambodia, which was purchased rightfully in the early 1920's, while the United States is not wrong for the empire that they have ammased. Your nations Hypocrisy is appalling Mr. Lansing."

Lansing ignores the second part of the Japanese question for the moment. "US Navy units in the Pacific are in the midst of operations that I am not at liberty to discuss, however, they are not pointed at Japan, nor meant to threaten Japan.

However, I am informed that Japan will soon see why those fleets are present as they conduct operations."

At that moment another aid comes in with a note, and Lansing stops to read it.

He becomes visibily angry for a moment before regaining his usual calm. "Gentlemen, it is my sad duty to report that Germany and France have invaded Burgundy, and that the Russians, Germans, Czechs and French have invaded Belgium.

You socialist gentlemen speak of Imperialist Aggression. Yet now you invade neutral nations, one of which has provided you transist rights since this war began in spite of International Law in order to preserve itself. France has violated treaties quaranteeing their independence, and so I might add has Germany.

Apparently the Pact armies are busting out the back door as Allied armies come in through the front door."

Lansing stands. "For now gentlemen, I must seek instructions from my government. But I can tell you that as of this moment, the United States is no longer willing to consider the Argentine Proposal."

He calmly walks to the door and leaves.

"I understand the need for Military Secrecy, and I accept the assurance of the United States Government, but I remind you that an attack upon the Interned fleet in Tapei would still be considered an attack on Nippon herself"


OOC: invading China eh?

"I understand the need for Military Secrecy, and I accept the assurance of the United States Government, but I remind you that an attack upon the Interned fleet in Tapei would still be considered an attack on Nippon herself"


OOC: invading China eh?

ooc
as all orders are in, including yours, I can tell you that no, the US isn't invading China at the moment. However, Cambodia has a lot of interesting ruins that the US Marine Corps want to visit. Laos has lots of pretty flowers too they hear.

ooc
as all orders are in, including yours, I can tell you that no, the US isn't invading China at the moment. However, Cambodia has a lot of interesting ruins that the US Marine Corps want to visit. Laos has lots of pretty flowers too they hear.


OOC: otherwise known as invading china.

Bought and owned by china before the war means they are china.

Lansing stands. "For now gentlemen, I must seek instructions from my government. But I can tell you that as of this moment, the United States is no longer willing to consider the Argentine Proposal."

He calmly walks to the door and leaves.
Kalinin placidly sips his coffee as Lansing departs, quipping, "That would've been more meaningful, Lansing, had you ever been willing to consider it in the first place."

He stands.

"Gentlemen, I expect it will some time before genuine progress is made here, and more is the pity. You may form your own opinions of our actions, of course, but I will tell you myself that Lansing is throwing hysterics over nothing.

"These 'invasions,' as Lansing calls them, are nothing more than mere formalities that will allow us to preserve France from utter destruction at the hands of the Anglo-American Alliance. Neither Belgium nor Burgundy shall have their independence compromised permanently - conquest is not our goal, the defense of a free people is, for the sake of free peoples everywhere.

"Mr. Lansing speaks of our 'hypocrisy' in claiming to fight against imperialism. All that we have done has been for the express purpose of combating imperialism," Kalinin continues, knocking the surface of the table for emphasis. "The Belgians and Burgundians shall remain free as ever, only also free to allow the stationing of Pact forces upon their soil to aid in the defense of French freedom. This is in flagrant contradiction to the kind of American adventurism that brought us into this war to begin with. That was about the projection of American naval power, not the defense of embattled liberty in Europe.

"Nations must be free to choose their own destinies. Our own Revolution has taught us that. The Americans apparently did not learn that same lesson from theirs, for they would deny that right to the peoples of Spain and France - and doubtlessly the rest of the world, as well, were it within their power.

He drains the last of his coffee, sighs heavily and slumps his shoulders, and for a fleeting moment seems less the powerful Russian politician and more like the very incarnation of the shtetl.

"Gentlemen, it seems the slaughter must yet continue. The ferocity of our enemies knows no limits, and must be answered with a similar resolve else we perish.

"In any event, the Union will return to the table whenever the Americans start showing a willingness to bargain in good faith.

"Good day."

Kalinin departs.

Major-Genereal Manfred Zeibgund Reichmann became so infuriated his monacle fogged up. He took a sip of tea and calmed down.

"Gentlemen, the disgusting Landsing has not the sexual organs to respond to questions posed to him. Instead he projects it on others. If I do not leave soon, I will be forced to "liberate" his soul from his body. My unit requires my guidance in these troublesome times. Perhaps we will return at another time. Doktor Ortega, I wish you well."

With that he loosened his grip on his sword and stepped out, returning to the front line.

Throwing a salute to both Reichmann and Kalinin as they departed, Tito turned to the remaining members,

"I am outraged by the American's love for this war, though the invasions of Burgundy and Belgium saddened me, and my nation is not involved, i must also leave as my government has seen it fit to return me to my command in the army for what is to come. I thank you Doctor Ortega for your understanding of the situation, but it seems that the USA was not so understanding. Goodbye, and i hope that before too many men are lost that i shall be able to return."

With that Tito turned and left, making a trip back to Sarajevo to report to the Federation Parliament.

elbos stands as well, "If the Americans do not want peace then I must go to Berlin. Paris has been cut-off."

John Pimlott's party leaves as well after conversing with the Japanese deputation about their good taste in napkins.

He is heard to mutter "Ah well, it seems the war must go on."Then more loudly to one of his aides "Someone get me a telegrapher, I must inform the government of the results of the convention immediately. Churchill will be interested."

Dr. Ortega watches as the peace process crumbles before his eyes. "Semantic nonsense!" he cries to no one in particular as the German, French and Union delegates leave. "That's it, the last real chance for peace in our time has been dashed. I just hope we're ready to deal with the consequences in life."

Fouché shook his head slowly. "I guess that's it then. I must return to the British embassy and relay this information to Pretoria." He turned to face Dr. Ortega.

"Mynheer Doktor, I thank you for your efforts here. To continued friendship between Argentina and South Africa," he said, extending his hand.

Dr. Ortega shakes the offered hand, and clasps it with his other. "Indeed, I must let my own people know what happened. May Argentina and South Africa always be the best of friends." He then hurries off to relay what he observed during the conference.

Yamamoto sets his glass of water down hard on tbe table out of frustration with the amercians, shattering the glass and cutting his hand. He quickly wipes away the blood with his napkin, as he stands up to leave he discards the napkin on the table and looks at the blood stained white and sighs muttering "Yes, a very approiated color..." He then walks out the door with his aides

Kemel got out of his chair and said" Damn the Americans and their lackies for prolonging a war and killing another millions for this damn war." Then he storm out of the conference and took a train back to Istanbul.

1. Immediate cease fire if the following conditions are accepted.
a. all Pact submarines immediately return to port and cease all attacks against all shipping.
b. all Pact forces withdraw from Burgundy and Belgium on the Western Front, back across the pre war border of Italy into Germany and Yugoslavia on the Italian Front.
c. complete withdrawal from India.
d. once Pact forces have withdrawn from Burgundy and Belgium, Allied forces will also withdraw from those 2 countries.

2. Spain, France, Burgundy and Belgium will become neutral nations, members neither of the Pact or of the LTA. Specific peace treaty conditions already in place with France and Spain remain in place as well.

3. Germany and Russia agree to not sell arms, warships or military aircraft to any nation in the Western Hemisphere or Africa, and will not give away, donate, lease or otherwise make available arms, warships or military aircraft to any force, faction or nation in Africa or Latin America.

4. The LTA keeps all territory secured over the course of the war that is not located on the continent of Europe to dispose as it sees fit.

5. Germany agrees to have no warship or submarine with a range of greater than 2,000 miles.

6. Afghanistan regains its independence and will remain neutral, with no military forces in that country from either the Pact or LTA.

7. China will pay reparations (12 points to Britian to replace the Repulse and 10 destroyers, 6 points to Britian to rebuild Burmese production, reparations to be paid over the course of 2 years).

8. The independence of Vietnam and Algeria (which occured over the course of the war) be respected by both the LTA and Pact.

9. To prevent a similar conflict such as this one, that a League of Nations be established, with a headquarters in the Hague. This League will consist of all of the member states of the LTA and Pact, plus such other nations that desire to join. The mission of the League of Nations will be to resolve conflicts before they occur.

10. All nations foreswear military force as an instrument of debt collection, and annexation of territory and that military force will only be considered legal if undertaken to defend a nations soveriegn national territory, or the soveriegn national territory of an ally.

11. All nations foreswear the practice of providing arms to guerilla and terrorist groups operating against the legally elected government of a soveriegn nation.

The Union accepts these terms, and strongly advises its remaining allies to do likewise. No offensives will be conducted after 1 May 1926, and a withdrawal from India is ordered to commence immediately.

The Union accepts these terms, and strongly advises its remaining allies to do likewise. No offensives will be conducted after 1 May 1926, and a withdrawal from India is ordered to commence immediately.

The United States is pleased that peace is coming so quickly, and also agrees that if the Pact accepts the agreement, even if China does not, it will honor it.

If China doesn't, then the LTA will continue operations only against it.

"Yugoslavia will accept the terms, and will agree to enter the League of Nations. For any further discussions the LTA may talk to General Nedic, and the Pact to Commander Tito. A telegram to parliament in Sarajevo will also be accepted and reviewed. We are saddened that more people had to die for this peace to be reached though. Good day to you America."

Colombia will sign the treaty. Regarding the League of Nations, Colombia wonders if there will be a Veto power.

Italy also signs this treaty, and hopes that this treaty will finally put an end to war in Europe.

Bolivia accepts the terms as well

Colombia will sign the treaty. Regarding the League of Nations, Colombia wonders if there will be a Veto power.

a thread on that very thing would seem to be in order.... League of Nations Treaty thread. I am too busy to start one at the moment, but it would be helpful if someone else did.

a thread on that very thing would seem to be in order.... League of Nations Treaty thread. I am too busy to start one at the moment, but it would be helpful if someone else did.
The League of Nations (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=9903010#post9903010)

Unable to officially agree to the peace terms without permission from Britain, and unsure of what to do, South African forces are ordered to maintain their current positions, and to make no further advances against Pact forces until further instructions are received. That said, the I Mechanized Corp is ordered to defend itself any hostile soldiers approaching without a flag of truce.

It says I can't give arms or warships to Latin American countries. Can I donate build points so that Brazil, for example, can build its own warships, arms, etc?

IC: The Worker's Republic agrees to the peace terms.

Unable to officially agree to the peace terms without permission from Britain, and unsure of what to do, South African forces are ordered to maintain their current positions, and to make no further advances against Pact forces until further instructions are received. That said, the I Mechanized Corp is ordered to defend itself any hostile soldiers approaching without a flag of truce.

ooc
you should be able to count on it, I wouldn't have proposed terms if I hadn't gotten a TG from Ribenia giving me the ok

ooc
you should be able to count on it, I wouldn't have proposed terms if I hadn't gotten a TG from Ribenia giving me the ok

OOC: I know that, but it's probably likely that my commanders in France aren't entirely sure about everything because this is moving rather quickly.

IC:

Prime Minister Hertzog has stated that South Africa will agree to the terms immediately upon the agreement of great Britain.

Dr. Ortega, who hadn't gotten around to leaving the Hague quite yet due to the seasonably good weather and his orders to hang around should talks resume, is seen to say "If the US just asked for a few amendments to my proposal... Oh well, I guess they have to be the ones to steal the thunder."

7. China will pay reparations (12 points to Britian to replace the Repulse and 10 destroyers, 6 points to Britian to rebuild Burmese production, reparations to be paid over the course of 2 years).

China cannot start the reparations until 1927, as China has used up all of its production points. Otherwise, this should pose no problem to China.

10. All nations foreswear military force as an instrument of debt collection, and annexation of territory and that military force will only be considered legal if undertaken to defend a nations soveriegn national territory, or the soveriegn national territory of an ally.

11. All nations foreswear the practice of providing arms to guerilla and terrorist groups operating against the legally elected government of a soveriegn nation.

I'm afraid I don't understand these two things. What exactly does "foreswear" mean? Could you put these two points in simple laymen terms (I think I understand #11 but not #10).

7. China will pay reparations (12 points to Britian to replace the Repulse and 10 destroyers, 6 points to Britian to rebuild Burmese production, reparations to be paid over the course of 2 years).

China cannot start the reparations until 1927, as China has used up all of its production points. Otherwise, this should pose no problem to China.

10. All nations foreswear military force as an instrument of debt collection, and annexation of territory and that military force will only be considered legal if undertaken to defend a nations soveriegn national territory, or the soveriegn national territory of an ally.

11. All nations foreswear the practice of providing arms to guerilla and terrorist groups operating against the legally elected government of a soveriegn nation.

I'm afraid I don't understand these two things. What exactly does "foreswear" mean? Could you put these two points in simple laymen terms (I think I understand #11 but not #10).

ooc: MUAHAHHA! University training to the rescue! Sharina, Foreswear means that you are pre-emptively promising to do or not to do something. But in this context, it pretty much just means that you will not sell arms to the rebels. (Also see: Conceed)

And making it in Laymans terms? Well.. no. I am a Linguistics Major, specifically in contract law. Meaning I have quite the experience in reading legalese, and this is as simple as this document is gonna get without washing out the desired effect. You should be happy.. its not even that complicated; Would you like me to re-write it all pwnage like? ;)

Australia's Prime Minister Stonehaven seconds his South African colleague Hertzog. His nation will follow the example of Great Britain, though in the same speech, he pushed strongly for the mother country to accept the terms.

Cylea check your TGs.

Britain officially puts an end to the war and signs the treaty of peace (OOC: see my longer post on the league of nations thread).