NationStates Jolt Archive

Well, we all know there's been that old rivalry of people using NS pops, and people using made up RP pops. Both have their advantiges, both have limitations, but majority of NS poppers(AKA, those who use NS populations) don't like to RP with those who use hokey made up populations.

Well, here's my idea, so bear with me.

We create uniformity. Yes I know this is freeform, and no one can force anyone to do anything, but if there is uniformity, that means more cooperation, and possibly better RP's.

What I suggest, is that every FT nation multiply their NS pops by 5x, or 10x, hell even 20x if people want it. This would create uniformity, and face it, bigger numbers like that are more realistic for space nations.

Dwelving more on the topic of realism... Some nations who follow NS pops have some-what sprawling empires, having several systems. Say they have 4 billion people, and 5 systems, well... thats less than 1 billion a system, which is a very small number. Too small to be of any worth or use.

Here's my idea, and I spread it forth.

Only problem I see is military, with these inflated numbers, military can also become very inflated. I'm torn on whether I want to support a much larger military, or just use NS pop military, right now I sway to the NS pop military and the usual 10/5%


Don't bother posting if you are just going to say, "Well I use droids" or "Well I use clones". That's not productive, I want productive thoughts.

Heres an idea; a modest proposal if you will. If you inflate populations; then have that serve as merely that; Population. We're talking non-conscripted-everyday-Emperor Praisin'-civvies. In that case; perhaps the military should remain the same; since, well lets face it; the key issue is "Giant Space Empires O' Doom are drasticly under-manned for their size" If need be, modification of the Military % could come into it; I'm not going to advocate having an immense amount of NPCs and use your nation pop as your fraging army...But the key is patience and hard work; building from the ground up to form a nation that is undeniably yours.

I have no problem with using my NS pop; but when people fly into an RP spouting that they have billions of people and thousands of ships; and their only in their millions; thats a problem

Its an interesting and long standing arguement. Indeed that would be interesting to use that idea of multiplying the NS pop, but then in the end its up to the players.

Its my opinion that people have the paradigm that a space nation has to be billions upon billions of people. Well if you think about it, Earth had a population of less than maybe 300 million for over a thousand years. (2500-1000 BC) This of course ignores the technological level. For, as science grew, so did the population.

So, its concievable for an FT nation, like e for example, to colonize other planets with just about 50,000 inhabitants then let it grow from there. Who ever wrote the rule that said you had to have a certain number? While this idea of uniform numbers is thinking outside of the box, its still within yet another larger box.

People just need to understand that this is using our imaginations. They're gifts from God, so use them! Einstien even once said imagination is more important than knowledge.

But on the whole, I would say just use your NS pop, and if you don't like that, then rp what you want, its up to you and those whom you are rp'ing with.

Newbies want to have massive, ancient imperiums. Bah.

I suggest they just bother to roleplay it from the small one-planet nation, play wars, play expansion, play defeats, and finally, after months/years, they become a massive and are actually old enough to say they're "ancient". This is how it works with NS pop, and I can't see why it shouldn't be used.

Reckless, lazy newcomers are only people that are to suffer from this...
Well TOO BAD!

Stop crying/start playing, that is my advice.

My policy is thus: you can claim whatever you want, but your overall capibility, relative to others, is basicly determined by your NS population. And, that retaining this as a guide is necessary as it provides an impartial ballance.

So, go ahead and claim eighty trillion people and a million ISD-strong armada, from my perspective you're just dilouting your individual assets in an epic, less quality, more quantity trade-off.

And, hey, it works.

Everyone makes very good points here. I've been around now in verious forms for about a year and a half now. And I've seen many of these arguments as im guess the rest of you have too.

I agree that much of the problem is smaller nations wanting to be the uber-allconsumeing Imperiums so that they can feel they have a chance to rock the worlds of those who have been it for a long time. I personally use my NS pop and 5% military like most of you do. I claim around 21 worlds most of which are scarcely populated boarder outposts and colonies. I do claim that there ar npc populations other then my own on some of the planets but this is to add to my RPing possiblities not to boaster my ranks so they really are not even my people. I've created all my own technology and at the moment use cheaper more nummerous ships but I plan to change that within the next few months to have fewer more powerfull higher quality vessels. I'm researching the tech ICly now for this.

The thing about multiplying our population could work. But then if you do not multiply your logistics and economy to match then its not realistic because you do not have the wealth needed to support such an Empire. I would think it is just best to stick with the NS population and economy, it would be far easier. If we ever could agree on something here i would be willing to go along with it but I do not see that happening. My guess is we will have an interesting conversation and will learn more about each others nations and views but nothing will really come from it just like all the others like it before.

Newbies want to have massive, ancient imperiums. Bah.

I suggest they just bother to roleplay it from the small one-planet nation, play wars, play expansion, play defeats, and finally, after months/years, they become a massive and are actually old enough to say they're "ancient". This is how it works with NS pop, and I can't see why it shouldn't be used.

Reckless, lazy newcomers are only people that are to suffer from this...
Well TOO BAD!

Stop crying/start playing, that is my advice.

How enlightened.
Most FT nations don't use the start of their time on NS as the point at which their state began, but the point at which they made first contact. So, they could well be ancient.

My suggestion to you: in comparison to a lot of people, you're just another overzealous new guy. Unless you one day become the oldest nation on here, stop it.

well i use my NS pop size on my FT nation (which NS won't let me log onto the forums with ¬_¬) but then I have only one planet which is infact a near-barren moon, not really any suggestions in this thread but i'm sure that if an English teacher worked at it for long enough he or she could find some hidden suggestion, i'm rembling.

Some people seem to be thinking I want these uber numbers for bigger militaries... uhm, wrong? Read the thread.

It is a lame topic, but other people jump on others for having way too many civilians, even though militaries are about the same. I just ignore those who use their "RP" pops to affect their militaries.

Just tired of seeing the bickering, and trying to form a solution. Sorry for trying.

Umm...no one has stated that they think you want to use these numbers for an uber big military....

well I think it's a good idea, i'm not going to use it myself (me likey havey small nation)

How enlightened.
Most FT nations don't use the start of their time on NS as the point at which their state began, but the point at which they made first contact. So, they could well be ancient.

My suggestion to you: in comparison to a lot of people, you're just another overzealous new guy. Unless you one day become the oldest nation on here, stop it.

"Ancient empire" is what I spoke about. Ancient, massive wannabe-SW Empire of Evil Doom. Or something like that. Those nations should not try to be old and strong from the day they begin, but rather play their way to be such, that is what I meant.

If we ever could agree on something here i would be willing to go along with it but I do not see that happening.

I've been here for the better part of three years, and I've seen dozens of people try something like this at one time or another. They never really amount to much more than discussion.

The simply fact is that the size of the FT community, combined with it's disorganised freeform nature, makes it, at best, highly improbible that you could achive a general agreement on anything beyond the most basic aspects.

If you want special rules, you set up your own little paradigm, usually(but not always) apart from NS, and interested parties will join in. It's been done many times in the past(the most obvious examples being the whole "NS Earth #2, 3, 4, etc etc." thing) and is the only really practical method.

Some people seem to be thinking I want these uber numbers for bigger militaries... uhm, wrong? Read the thread.

It is a lame topic, but other people jump on others for having way too many civilians, even though militaries are about the same. I just ignore those who use their "RP" pops to affect their militaries.

Just tired of seeing the bickering, and trying to form a solution. Sorry for trying.

Just to make sure we shall not face any misunderstandings I need to reassure it is certainly not you I was directing the criticism. It's great that you go 'n seek solutions for problems like this. You sure aren't one of those wannabe-greatempire-newbies I meant.

"Ancient empire" is what I spoke about. Ancient, massive wannabe-SW Empire of Evil Doom. Or something like that. Those nations should not try to be old and strong from the day they begin, but rather play their way to be such, that is what I meant.


Now now, there is nothing wrong with being an "Ancient empire" or race or whatever; the problem only arises when they claim to be great NS powers and the ilk.


Like I said; claim whatever you want, just keep in mind that you can expect others to judge your military power on a combonation of your impartial NS population stat, and how you RP.

Like Madnestan said.. its good that you want to try, it would help. But as Kanuckistan said, there are so many FT nations now and very few seem to agree on anything such as basic rules. The freeform idea gives so much to the idea of truely RPing what you want but then it henders you without structure. But people can not agree on things and therefor we'll probably never get the structure that we might need or want. Despite what we all RP very few of us are accually inlightened enough to agree on very many things.

just keep in mind that you can expect others to judge your military power on a combonation of your impartial NS population stat, and how you RP.
Very true, thats what I do. The how you RP part mostly.