NationStates Jolt Archive

I have noticed that there is alot of anti moderator feeling around now: This is fine, however, PLEASE do not blatantly flame, or in fact, flame at all, moderators for doing their job. I can see that what has happened to me has sparked something and I do not want anymore nastiness as a result of it, whether it is my fault or not, I do know some of it is a backfire and it is wrong. Please, settle down. I'm sure there is a place to file complaints if you feel like but there is absolutely no need to be volatile.
Thanks

thank you!

And love the sig!

C'mon people, it's gotten way out of hand! Chill!

I'm speaking unofficially here, just to let you know.

I've received multiple hate e-mails, a numerous amount of hateful i.m.'s over AIM and MSN, as well as threats over IRC. I also know of certain actions that have been done to NSWiki, specifically Gruenberg's Wiki page which is absolutely uncalled for. These actions have only showed us that some of the people here have resulted to pretty low actions, such as vandalizing someone's NSWiki page, and threatening some of the moderators, and it's quite sad. I'm not going to 'out' these people, but they should be damn ashamed of themselves.

how much has it actually escalated - ive been watching it but not too closely.

i mean yes we feel sorry to see him go but not enough to get other players to "suicide" or deat.

OOC: As an observer and though I still personally disagree with the moderators' actions, this is still reality, so perhaps we need to face it and perhaps people should cool themselves down from this increasingly agitated "anti-moderator" sentiment.

Perhaps, if you want to mourn, do it ICly.

You're taking all the fun out of martyrdom, Hoggy. :p

:mp5:

I'm speaking unofficially here, just to let you know.

I've received multiple hate e-mails, a numerous amount of hateful i.m.'s over AIM and MSN, as well as threats over IRC. I also know of certain actions that have been done to NSWiki, specifically Gruenberg's Wiki page which is absolutely uncalled for. These actions have only showed us that some of the people here have resulted to pretty low actions, such as vandalizing someone's NSWiki page, and threatening some of the moderators, and it's quite sad. I'm not going to 'out' these people, but they should be damn ashamed of themselves.

This is where "marches turn to riots" if you understand my phrase. I know that a fair few people are angry at the mods and an individual has been doing some.. ungainly things as you mentioned above. This post was to say I don't agree with it being done and I don't think it should be. I thought it was neccessary considering it has been sparked by an action of a mod.

Edit: The idea was not to be a martyr Toc (I know it was a joke:P) The idea was a sensible and organised appeal, which happened while I was asleep and the decision was made.

how much has it actually escalated - ive been watching it but not too closely.

i mean yes we feel sorry to see him go but not enough to get other players to "suicide" or deat.

The things that I've seen and heard have proven otherwise, through words, and it's sad.

Let me echo Hogsweat here. No matter what your opinion of Hogsweat's deletion, please do not resort to flaming each other regardless of whether you think the Mods are horribly wrong or whether you think the people who support Hoggy need to "grow up."

There's been highly shameful behaviour on BOTH sides of this. Let's end that here and move on constructively, whether that means staying in the game or leaving it.

Let me echo Hogsweat here. No matter what your opinion of Hogsweat's deletion, please do not resort to flaming each other regardless of whether you think the Mods are horribly wrong or whether you think the people who support Hoggy need to "grow up."

There's been highly shameful behaviour on BOTH sides of this. Let's end that here and move on constructively, whether that means staying in the game or leaving it.

And finally the truth is spoken...

As a neutral observer I would like to ask you to stop posting more threads about this, They are not going to improve the situation. I actually believe the vandalizing, hatemailing and whatever else is being done will die together with the conflict. I think everyone knows now that nothing is going to change anyway.

Well the idea was to show that this sort of hostility isn't agreed with by everyone who thinks something against the moderation.

I fully support Hogsweat. I didnt know about hatemail, threats and wiping of wiki pages. This is the kind of hateful, disgusting behaviour which does nothing but debase the cause these people claim to support. These people do not represent my views, nor do I consider then to be supporters of what is, afterall, a campaign for justice. To those who have committed these acts - you are doing nothing to help what we are trying to achieve, all you are doing is giving your counterparts on the other side of the argument moral ammunition to fire at those of us who have nothing to do with your actions. Please stop now, and I will have no sympathy for you if you are caught and action is taken against you.

Guys... lets not stand up here and give a speech on morals, like the damn president or something. If everyone truly wants the issue to die... than let it die. It is only fueled by these comments everyone keeps making.

My personal situation with the matter is resolved. However, per the subject of Hogsweat, I will say the following.

It seems that a dark rift has shown itself finally after so many months. Why now? I do not know, but what I can say is the fact that I am displeased by this. While I am neutral in most aspects, leaning more to one side than the other sometimes, I cannot go ahead and say that the situation IS resolved. With the knowledge that the Mods have had so much coming at them, it would seem that the rift has turned red with anger.

I have personally talked to many a person whom is disguested by the Hogsweat Supporters or others, or the Mods. I can conclude that this rift was already placed before hand, perhaps due to something that happened before said time.

It disturbs me the length that everyone has gone to to battle one another. One side does one thing, the other does another. It would seem like a Rebellion. But, in reality, its perhaps something way different. The seed of distrust grown when the situation started, and grew faster with every punch by each party. While I understand the circumstances revolving around the situation, I cannot fully support threats of hate and death, and of the like. That is the most disturbing part to me.

I can therefore conclude that this seed, that grew into a plant, will at some time in the future settle. Perhaps then we will be able to prune it, to take the bad from it, and to begin anew once more.

We have lives, the Mods have lives. I can see what fuels the rage against the authority, but I cannot be apart of it any longer. I can be with you to talk, but I cannot be with you to march. Until such a time as I can get something within my hands so as I can pass judgement fully, I do not want to go any further than I have.

I have been through the darkness of hatred, and it tore me apart. I do not want to go back, I want to go forward.

Thats my say. Hogsweats my friend, and I will support him. But so are some of the Mods, the ones I've seen and trust. I would be a hypocrite if I dare to choose a specific side. So, I must stay neutral. For, I do not want that dark time to come back on me. I have grown passed it, and I do not want to go back.

Thank You.

Yea... I guess I'm one of the guilty ones. After all, I called Euroslavia a cocksucker. This has gotten out of hand though. This is a such a great place, sad to see it ruined by something like this. My apologies to Euroslavia, calling someone a cocksucking jerk for doing his job in keeping order on these forums is like calling a fireman a cocksucking jerk because he didn't save your priceless stamp collection after dragging you out of a burning building.

The greivance thread was deleted on W@W because of the constant flaming; it wasn't even an argument any longer.

I am in total agreement with the sentiments expressed by Hogsweat, Praetonia, Sarzonia, and the others who have posted here. And MP, while I think your treatment of Euroslavia was misguided and totally inappropriate, I applaud you for coming forward and apologizing like this. It takes a lot of guts to come out and admit you were wrong publicly (after all, you could have just apologized to Euro in private), and you have my respect for it.

Guys... lets not stand up here and give a speech on morals, like the damn president or something. If everyone truly wants the issue to die... than let it die. It is only fueled by these comments everyone keeps making.
I dont want the issue to die. I still think that what happened was wrong. What I want to die is the flaming.

Halberdgardia - I havent apologised for anything, and I dont think I am wrong. I'm saying that people who are flaming etc in our name should shut up and go home.

Anyway, for now, I'm just going to leave in peace. Maybe in a week or two when all this has calmed down I'll return to II (I probably will) but for now, goodbye everyone and good luck.

Halberdgardia - I havent apologised for anything, and I dont think I am wrong. I'm saying that people who are flaming etc in our name should shut up and go home.

I was referring to MassPwnage, my friend.

Can such threads of an OOC nature not having to do with OOC support of II roleplaying threads be closed down here and/or moved to the Moderation forum where it is appropriate?

If there was a Moderation issue, there is an appeal process. That appeal process, as far as I read, did not include starting OOC threads in the middle of II.

While this is a serious issue, and I wholeheartedly appreciate calls for sanity, they too should occur in the appropriate Forum.

Edit: Regardless of why this thread was started, and even given its good intentions, it is not related to RPing, ergo belongs more in Moderation than II, thank you.

This isn't appeal thread, this is Hogsweat telling everyone to stop flaming/insulting/be mean to the mods.

As a neutral observer I would like to ask you to stop posting more threads about this, They are not going to improve the situation. I actually believe the vandalizing, hatemailing and whatever else is being done will die together with the conflict. I think everyone knows now that nothing is going to change anyway.
Guys... lets not stand up here and give a speech on morals, like the damn president or something. If everyone truly wants the issue to die... than let it die. It is only fueled by these comments everyone keeps making.
Keep in mind things are only getting worse and worse. Since this whole thing was centered around Hog getting deleted, it was only right for him to come on here and say enough is enough, stop all this shit, and get over it.

Yea... I guess I'm one of the guilty ones. After all, I called Euroslavia a cocksucker. This has gotten out of hand though. This is a such a great place, sad to see it ruined by something like this. My apologies to Euroslavia, calling someone a cocksucking jerk for doing his job in keeping order on these forums is like calling a fireman a cocksucking jerk because he didn't save your priceless stamp collection after dragging you out of a burning building.
That's a start. What you said was wrong, but you're attempting to right the wrong. Thank you for coming clean and apologizing, that's a big step. :)

Can such threads of an OOC nature not having to do with OOC support of II roleplaying threads be closed down here and/or moved to the Moderation forum where it is appropriate?

If there was a Moderation issue, there is an appeal process. That appeal process, as far as I read, did not include starting OOC threads in the middle of II.

While this is a serious issue, and I wholeheartedly appreciate calls for sanity, they too should occur in the appropriate Forum.

Edit: Regardless of why this thread was started, and even given its good intentions, it is not related to RPing, ergo belongs more in Moderation than II, thank you.
Yes, you're right, it doesn't involve RP. However, this would be the best place to get everyones attention, as how many of the people actually check the mod page? It's important EVERYONE sees this.

This isn't appeal thread, this is Hogsweat telling everyone to stop flaming/insulting/be mean to the mods.
Exactly, and I think it can be the last thread on this topic for a while.

The mods can be free to lock this if they wish, after this point.

A lot of good points made here, and I agree, this flaming has to die. I'm staying neutral because to take either side would be really difficult, seeing as mods have helped everyone at least once, and so did Hogsweat. So, we should let all this flame and death threats, etc...die.

Also, all these flames and threats of violence over a game??

And finally the truth is spoken...

If only you'd read the first post in my topic in Moderation, then... :p

Also, all these flames and threats of violence over a game??
Thank you! That's what I've been sayin!

Also, all these flames and threats of violence over a game??
Some people just take things a wee bit too seriously...

Some people just take things a wee bit too seriously...
Yes... I mean, hell, I get worked up over this game to the point sometimes I can't sleep as it sometimes becomes almost reality... but then I realize, "Oh ya, its a game..." and go to sleep... lol... this is just beyond obsessed though... to those people, this is bigger than life... it's their entire life and then some... pathetic! RELAX PEOPLE! Don't be the guy who kills him self because your character you worked hard to build gets killed (it's happened)!

Threats of violence? Where? I never saw any.

I have to admit, this thread is a good step in the right direction. We've all seen how this entire mess has gotten dirty on both sides, with some of the stuff I've personally seen and objected to being well beyond the realm of decency, though now I've had time to think about it I think it was more about a third party trying to shake things up a little bit on both sides.

In anycase, things have been done and now it's time to heal. It's certain now that while many aren't content with how things have ended, they have ended and there is no going back. Lessons can be learned and some may even feel that this is no longer the game they want to play... personally, I don't feel the game has changed at all but we have lost some players. It's a shame but life goes on and that to me is all there is to it.

Though I'm surprised to hear that some people were so harsh to Euroslavia... I don't think I've ever seen the man being rude to people in moderation and he's one of the most helpful people I know, even if he still a little wet behind the ears as far as moderation is concerned. Still, I can't hold the majority responsible for what the minority has done, even though I want to.

So meh, shame things got out of control but like the man said "enough is enough".

Jesus H. Christ. I'm not all that bothered by Hogsweat's demise, as I never knew the guy and only read a few of his posts. It sucks to lose an RPer, sure, but I'm sure that Hogsweat doesn't even know who I am, so we're obviously not close. I only even heard of this from my local regional message board, and had no idea of what sort of stuff had gone on until coming to the forums.

But after seeing how some people here react to a player's account on a game being deleted, I think that a few people, especially new people, are going to be seriously reconsidering whether they want to be part of this 'community'. I'd expect this kind of behaviour if the moderators had murdered Hogsweat, but not this... it makes one wonder just how many of you will go loco the next time they have to delete an older member? Is there a gang of abusive thugs surrounding every old member, just waiting for an excuse to crack? I'm not sure I want to be around to find out; this is just depressing.

Don't be the guy who kills him self because your character you worked hard to build gets killed (it's happened)!

Bit too much Chick comics for you! No more Dark Dungeons!

The greivance thread was deleted on W@W because of the constant flaming; it wasn't even an argument any longer.Gee... and I found it so flattering...

Bet Guffingford isn't too happy with his threats, insults, flames and nasty images are deleted. Oops, I mean German New Guinea of course.

In 24 hours I received more (negative) publicity than you've ever received in an entire year.

Threats of violence? Where? I never saw any.
They weren't on here... IRC chat, email, and IM's... :(

Bit too much Chick comics for you! No more Dark Dungeons!
Sad thing is... I was actually serious about that comment...

In 24 hours I received more (negative) publicity than you've ever received in an entire year.
Gee, I wonder why...

In 24 hours I received more (negative) publicity than you've ever received in an entire year.

...and that's something to brag about? Sad really...

In 24 hours I received more (negative) publicity than you've ever received in an entire year.

Good, then maybe now you've learned that telling people to go commit suicide, calling people whoe, slut and what not, and even more nastier stuff is wrong. This is a game Guffy, and you haven taken it way too far. And as for those images, I contacted photobucket to have them removed. They agreed they broke their terms (no uploading hateful, obscene, etc images). I really hope you've learned a lesson here.

...and that's something to brag about? Sad really...Bet you can't beat it.

And CG, you are taking it too far. If you are offended by some bozo on the internet, then sorry to say it, you don't have much self-confidence. Oh drama. You asked a photobucket administrator to delete them for me. Damn. You got me there, you deleted a masterpiece I worked 10 minutes on. The pain does not stop here for me! Hell, you are so offended you even request the deletion of said images.

PS: A certain mods image and another are still on it. Just FYI, not to harass or offend anyone. Just a friendly heads-up. I really hope you've learned a lesson here!

And this coming from someone who flames and goes nuts over a deletion in a free online game.:rolleyes: Nice try Guffy.

And this coming from someone who flames and goes nuts over a deletion in a free online game.:rolleyes: Nice try Guffy.Shame you haven't seen all the msn things I said, the post I made in Hogs deletion thread in moderation, and other forms of correspondence. Nice of you to talk ahead of your knowledge, suits your personality.

Shame you haven't seen all the msn things I said, the post I made in Hogs deletion thread in moderation, and other forms of correspondence. Nice of you to talk ahead of your knowledge, suits your personality.

I have no need to see more BS from you, thanks. Your posts on that offsite forum give enough information on your personality.

Guffingford, I believe I asked you to apologize to Crazy Girl for calling her a "cum guzzler."

Under no circumstances is it justifiable to say such things to a lady, no matter what greivances (imagined or otherwise) you have against them.

Now apologize.

This is exactly what I was talking about= =
Please take it to TG, or email, or don't.

This is exactly what I was talking about= =
Please take it to TG, or email, or don't.
Unfortunately, that's been done, and it'd only get worse if he does that again... :(

(...)Make me.

Make me.

Your childish attitude is really showing Guff. :rolleyes:

Does having an attitude like Guff is having justify deletion, or would that cause more baby Guffingford's?

Make me.


Well, obviously I can't make you do anything, Guffingford. It was a request, as I'm in no position to give orders to anyone. However, your refusal shows your stubborn immaturity, comparable to that of a 9 year old boy. You have no honor.

Your childish attitude is really showing Guff. :rolleyes:It is? I can't switch to my other, 'higher moral ground' tactic anymore. But alas, if people now see me instead of the facade I always held high, all the better. Might as well have some fun before the end, which is inevitable. I rather be deleted and experienced a small grasp of real internet entertainment, then just dying like a candle.

Well, obviously I can't make you do anything, Guffingford. It was a request, as I'm in no position to give orders to anyone. However, your refusal shows your stubborn immaturity, comparable to that of a 9 year old boy. You have no honor.We don't live in the middleages anymore, so the idea of 'knights', 'honor' and 'valor' is old. And moot. Sort of...

We don't live in the middleages anymore, so the idea of 'knights', 'honor' and 'valor' is old. And moot. Sort of...

I suppose we can just do away with 'old-fashioned' ideas like morals, decency, and integrity then as well. Surely we're too sophisticated for something so... so... archaic!

First and foremost, why is this even on II? Why is any of this argument on II? I do believe that anyone who has taken part of this argument has commited a crime against themselves. All sides are doing nothing but fueling the anger of the other, and are indeed, making NationStates an unenjoyable place.

I have always been so impressed by the community here, and how closeknit we are, but I am so disgusted at how this has turned out. All of the loving community that we once had has been replaced by apathy, and utter hatred. For what reason? Just because a nation was deleted for breaking the rules of the game?

The moderators did their job, even Hogsweat realizes that. The fact that there are people out there threatening bodily harm and harassing other members is mind boggling, especially over something so trivial as a deletion in an online computer game. I believe that everyone should feel shameful for these actions, especially those that have resorted to vicious slander and hate related actions.

This has gone way too far, and enough destruction has been caused. Not only to certain people's respectible names, but to the NS community as a whole. I am fearing that the damage done here is irreparable to our society, and that we may never achieve our greatness ever again.

I have been an esteemed member since February 11th, 2004. I have seen NS prosper, and change, but I have never seen anything as dishonorable as this ongoing crisis. I have sat here an watched as my own friends bicker and argue over this. I've watched as people verbally abuse others, for no possible gain except to feed their own demented egos. I've watched as one of the very few things I care about online gets ripped away. I have seen how you treat the very people that keep this game running, and I have witnessed the abuse of fellow gamers. I have become disheartened by these actions, and have grown a general distrust of NS, and so have many other silent members. Something that most of you have forgotten. You are fighting for no reason other than personal gain. You aren't arguing for or against Hogsweat. You are fighting for personal glory, and that is a true shame and a loss of virtue.

I suppose we can just do away with 'old-fashioned' ideas like morals, decency, and integrity then as well. Surely we're too sophisticated for something so... so... archaic!You know, first I had to reply or else... Then it became a request, and now it's a mere joke? If you stand up for morals and justice, surely you don't let me take you off course. Or is this just an attempt to look like the morality knight, standing up for "innocent" members? I think the last option applies on your case.

(...)tl;dr

OOC: If you want to argue, do it in another thread. Both sides of this issue is setting an extremely bad example of what shouldn't be done to honour Hogsweat's memory.

This is a good day indeed.

You know, first I had to reply or else... Then it became a request, and now it's a mere joke? If you stand up for morals and justice, surely you don't let me take you off course. Or is this just an attempt to look like the morality knight, standing up for "innocent" members? I think the last option applies on your case.

Let me tell you something, Guffingford. Crazy Girl isn't just a "fellow member" or moderator. She's also my friend. You impuned her honor and dignity with your slanderous remarks. Therefore, I was obligated as a gentleman and a friend to defend her, any way that I could. And respectfully asking you to apologize for your remarks was the only recourse I had. I'm not trying to put on a show, or win any arguments. I just want you to apologize for saying something terrible to my friend.

However, your conduct has proved that you have no idea how to be a gentleman.

Sad to see you go Hogsweat. Our history is strong and hopefully atleast the memories will remain.

(Yes i am still around and i am still reading threads now and then.)

Sad to see you go Hogsweat. Our history is strong and hopefully atleast the memories will remain.

(Yes i am still around and i am still reading threads now and then.)

OMG, He's alive!

Nice to see ya Dr. Twist. Sorry for the off topic comment, I'll leave now.

I was referring to MassPwnage, my friend.
Ah, sorry.

...and that's something to brag about? Sad really...

That was a flamebait - can we not keep things civilised or do we still have to be at each other's throats? Come on, guys.

That was a flamebait - can we not keep things civilised or do we still have to be at each other's throats? Come on, guys.
If that's flamebait, I'm Ving Rhames.

Furthermore, this thread strikes me as being another bastion for Hogsweat debate, which I beleive was strongly discouraged earlier. The people who claimed they'd be leaving as a result of this either need to actually leave or stop bringing this up. Likewise, those who aren't leaving don't need to rub it in or argue about it either. A lot of us are rapidly nearing the end of the proverbial rope with this as it is, so treating us to more of it isn't going to help anyone.