NationStates Jolt Archive

His most catholic majisty, king Charles the III of Spain is pround to present a update of the most current events in his lands and his coloneys. As of current we lay claim to Spain, The carabian, Latin America.

His most catholic Majistys stand strong at 20,00 men.

OOC: Shall post more later.

OOC: Now I've woken up and had some coffee.

IC: Spain is an old country, still recovering from the War of Spanish Succestion and the loss of it's status as the worlds most powerful country. However those wars are behind them now and under it's new king Charles the III Spain is looking to take forward steps.

Charles is a moderniser, he knows that his nation cannot stay the same as it has done for hundreds of years, he is determind to drag the country into the 18th centuary. However he is still devoutly catholic and religious, his vision of the future of Spain is a modern spain leaidng the Catholic armys of Europe a war to reclaim what ahs been lost to the Hertics. He sees Britian and Holland under the ope once more. His ambition is limitless and he is prepared to do anything to win.

His first act as king was to dessolve the Inqusition, that aincent body that has kept Spain Catholic for several hundred years and now is in the process of reoragnising Spains armys. He hads created a new indrustrial region around many of spains main citys and has his workers toiling away to create the most modern weapons, copys of the 'Brown Bess' muskets the British use, Rifles for his Skermishers and long steel swords for his cavalry.

Currently Spains standing army is:

18 regiments of Infantry, armed with a 'El' muskets.
5 regiments of light Skermishing troops armed with rifles.

50 artillary Baterrys

10 regiments of caveraly.

To expand upon the previous army figures: A average Spanish regiment is 3000 men strong, though a Skermishing regiment is 200 strong. Around half of the Spanish army is based on the boarders of Portugal and France while the rest is doing exacises. in total His majisty commands 54,000 infantry of the line and 10,000 Skermishers. All are well trained or in the process of ebing well trained.

Each Cavlry regiment is made of 10 squadrons of 100 men. Of these 4 cavary regiments are of Dragoons while 4 are of Lancers and the last two are of hevay Cavlry. In all his mjisty commands 4000 Dragoons, 4000 Lancers and 2000 Heavy Cavalry.

the artillary are all brand new 6 inch and 9 inch weapons, 6 to a baterry., the King is a great baliver in artillary and so the artillary are all well armed, trained and have sufficent ammunition. Older guns guard the verious castles that dot the landscape and the boarder forts. Overall the King commadns 300 feild guns.

OOC: Nice! A very non-wanked army, nice to have one of these for a while!

Apart from the spelling, very good. However, rifles did not come into use in skirmishing regiments till later on and it is almost inconceivable that your entire skirmishing force would be armed with them anyway. As well as this, you don't have 'regiments of skirmishers'. Each battalion of line infantry (2 or 3 battalions usually to a regiment), contains 1 company of skirmishers. Skirmishers are not deployed independently of the main troops and are sent ahead of the battalions in battle to fight in the skirmish line.

Ultimately, rifles wern't used in the military for a good few years yet, and historically the Spanish Army NEVER adopted rifles during even the Napoleonic wars so to have them now is a little premature. It was Britain who first put the rifle to the test on the battlefield and even then hardly any of their skirmishers used them. They were the rifle battalions and they were dedicated skirmishing regiments. Still though, even the British during the Napoleonic Wars, which we aren't up to yet, were the first to use rifles and even then in small numbers so it isn't realistic for Spain to have them yet.

In addition to the other points, you will have a massive amount of troops garrisoned in Latin America, though you don't own all of it. For example Brazil is Portuguese territory. Realistically you would have about the number of troops you have mentioned already stationed in Spain, with perhaps about another 70,000 in Latin America.

Apart from the spelling, very good. However, rifles did not come into use in skirmishing regiments till later on and it is almost inconceivable that your entire skirmishing force would be armed with them anyway. As well as this, you don't have 'regiments of skirmishers'. Each battalion of line infantry (2 or 3 battalions usually to a regiment), contains 1 company of skirmishers. Skirmishers are not deployed independently of the main troops and are sent ahead of the battalions in battle to fight in the skirmish line.

Ultimately, rifles wern't used in the military for a good few years yet, and historically the Spanish Army NEVER adopted rifles during even the Napoleonic wars so to have them now is a little premature. It was Britain who first put the rifle to the test on the battlefield and even then hardly any of their skirmishers used them. They were the rifle battalions and they were dedicated skirmishing regiments. Still though, even the British during the Napoleonic Wars, which we aren't up to yet, were the first to use rifles and even then in small numbers so it isn't realistic for Spain to have them yet.
yes, I'm tampering with history a bit here, but then who isn't. I may have introduced the rifle a slight bit early but guns with rifling barrels where being used long before this time. The rifle is basically a musket with rifleing barrels, so why couldn't one of my energeneers have devised this idea, after all it was common knowlage what the barrelas did.

As already stated my king is moderniser who is prespared to 'drag his country' into the modern age. He's my caracter and there is no reason why I can't have him reorganising the millitary, indeed he already is. I fail to see what i have done wrong.


In addition to the other points, you will have a massive amount of troops garrisoned in Latin America, though you don't own all of it. For example Brazil is Portuguese territory. Realistically you would have about the number of troops you have mentioned already stationed in Spain, with perhaps about another 70,000 in Latin America.

As detrermined by the treaty of Torbesillas in 1494 the pope decreed that the spanish would own ceneral America and Easten south America, the treaty only gave the the land west of the river Sao Francisco, the east of brazil from the slightly east of the Amazon Basien to just west of Rio de Janeiro though the portugese progressivly took the Amazon and expanded into Spanish terratory. The Spanish goverment never formally relencished it's claims to all of south America.

The Spanish goverment

I realise you wish to tamper with history but this rifle introduction is simply not realistic. Even when it was introduced in the British Army, there was a MASSIVE amount of scepticism about its effectiveness, even after it was successful in battle. Also, Spain is an extremely conservative society, none more so than the military establishement, who would resist such ideas to the hilt. Suddenly abandoning muskets in favour of rifles for all skirmishers without any testing in battle is ridiculous. There is no evidence yet to the effectiveness of the rifled barrel on the battlefield. And I doubt the King would pay attention to the individual equipment of the armed forces, especially as he has probably never fought the skirmishing battle, which was completely different to the main infantry battle.

Spanish society is probably the most conservative in the world and the military will not take to wholesale change in the armed forces. Especially without testing. Even after extensive battlefield experience, there was only 2 rifle regiments that had seen service in Europe by the battle of Waterloo. This shows how much the military societies in all countries despised the weapon. 2 regiments is 4 fighting battalions, which means only about 2400 men in the whole army knew how to fire a rifle by the end of the campaign. And this was in the army that 'invented' the use of the rifle as a primary infantry weapon. Suddenly to introduce one of the most far reaching reforms in military history and to your entire skirmishing force is completely unrealistic. Anyway, most rifles of the time were hunting rifles. The first mass produced military rifle was the Baker Rifle and this was a British invention.

The only way you could use rifles is to introduce maybe a militia regiment using their own weapons. No army in the world had manufactured rifles really by this point, especially not the notedly conservative Spanish Army. The only way you could have rifles to use is by a gradual process that is begun by a tiny peasant troop using their own hunting rifles before the weapon is gradually adopted by some infantry units before coming into widespread service in the late 1700s.

I realise you wish to tamper with history but this rifle introduction is simply not realistic. Even when it was introduced in the British Army, there was a MASSIVE amount of scepticism about its effectiveness, even after it was successful in battle. Also, Spain is an extremely conservative society, none more so than the military establishement, who would resist such ideas to the hilt. Suddenly abandoning muskets in favour of rifles for all skirmishers without any testing in battle is ridiculous. There is no evidence yet to the effectiveness of the rifled barrel on the battlefield. And I doubt the King would pay attention to the individual equipment of the armed forces, especially as he has probably never fought the skirmishing battle, which was completely different to the main infantry battle.

Spanish society is probably the most conservative in the world and the military will not take to wholesale change in the armed forces. Especially without testing. Even after extensive battlefield experience, there was only 2 rifle regiments that had seen service in Europe by the battle of Waterloo. This shows how much the military societies in all countries despised the weapon. 2 regiments is 4 fighting battalions, which means only about 2400 men in the whole army knew how to fire a rifle by the end of the campaign. And this was in the army that 'invented' the use of the rifle as a primary infantry weapon. Suddenly to introduce one of the most far reaching reforms in military history and to your entire skirmishing force is completely unrealistic. Anyway, most rifles of the time were hunting rifles. The first mass produced military rifle was the Baker Rifle and this was a British invention.

The only way you could use rifles is to introduce maybe a militia regiment using their own weapons. No army in the world had manufactured rifles really by this point, especially not the notedly conservative Spanish Army. The only way you could have rifles to use is by a gradual process that is begun by a tiny peasant troop using their own hunting rifles before the weapon is gradually adopted by some infantry units before coming into widespread service in the late 1700s.
OOC: Actually the indians under the sultain tipu had begun to arm all his soildiers with rifles only a little while later than the current date in this RP. The fatc remains that the rifle could have been mass-preduced at this stage and if I choose to I could arm my forces with it. I also accthe problems with firing it quickly, a maximum by experienced troops using a baker rifle was 3 shots a minuates (Thats presuming my forces arn't tap-loading.)

And there where almost certainly more than 2 rifle regiments in Europe by this time-the british had at least 2 regiments of riflemen, maybe more and the Portugese Cadzors (SP, translation is hunters) where all armed with rifles.

Spanish society may have been conservative but it was aso incredably loyal to the king, as can be everdenced by the treatys that Fracne attempted to end the war with in 1812-that the spanish would have immidetly given in just to have there king back shows an incradable degree of devotion to the king and coutry.

There was a huge amount of skeptism about it's effectiveness but lets compromsie shall we-I'll begin with just having 1 Skermishing regiment armed with rifles, a sort of tester regiment if you will, if that regiment is successful in battle then I'll expand the progremm to incude newly raised Skermishing regiments.

OOC: Actually the indians under the sultain tipu had begun to arm all his soildiers with rifles only a little while later than the current date in this RP. The fatc remains that the rifle could have been mass-preduced at this stage and if I choose to I could arm my forces with it. I also accthe problems with firing it quickly, a maximum by experienced troops using a baker rifle was 3 shots a minuates (Thats presuming my forces arn't tap-loading.)

And there where almost certainly more than 2 rifle regiments in Europe by this time-the british had at least 2 regiments of riflemen, maybe more and the Portugese Cadzors (SP, translation is hunters) where all armed with rifles.

Spanish society may have been conservative but it was aso incredably loyal to the king, as can be everdenced by the treatys that Fracne attempted to end the war with in 1812-that the spanish would have immidetly given in just to have there king back shows an incradable degree of devotion to the king and coutry.

There was a huge amount of skeptism about it's effectiveness but lets compromsie shall we-I'll begin with just having 1 Skermishing regiment armed with rifles, a sort of tester regiment if you will, if that regiment is successful in battle then I'll expand the progremm to incude newly raised Skermishing regiments.

I will go along with your compromise as a test and as this is an alternate history RP. But can I ask, are you getting your history facts from the Sharpe book series? If thats the 1812 treaty I'm thinking of (can't recall the name, Valencano maybe?) that would not have been supported by the common people, as the book says, just by some of the richer nobles. :)

I will go along with your compromise as a test and as this is an alternate history RP. But can I ask, are you getting your history facts from the Sharpe book series? If thats the 1812 treaty I'm thinking of (can't recall the name, Valencano maybe?) that would not have been supported by the common people, as the book says, just by some of the richer nobles. :)
OOC: Some of it, not all of it, I have a AS-Level in 17-18th centuary history from about this time. the treaty was not supported by the commoners, certainly not by the partisans, however they would ahve almost certainally stiopped fighting if the french had left and there king had ordered them to do so.

His most catholic majisty, king Charles the III of Spain is pround to present a update of the most current events in his lands and his coloneys. As of current we lay claim to Spain, The carabian, Latin America.

His most catholic Majistys stand strong at 20,00 men.

OOC: Shall post more later.

TO: Madrid, Spain
FROM: The Hauge, United Provinces

To His Majesty, By the Grace of God Almighty, Charles III of Spain:

My dear King, your recent announcements pertianing to the claim of both South America and the Carribean Islands has both worried and confused my countrymen.

As you may or may not know, the Dutch East India Company and her subsidiaries currently operate colonies in Guiana, The Dutch Antilles, Aruba and the Spice Islands, all of which are under your new claims. In previous times, you have fully aknowladged the exsistance of these colonies as soviergn Dutch property, but as of late, it seems those previous reassurances have been dis-regarded.

We sincerely hope that the Spanish Crown will withdraw her claims over Dutch Territories within the Americas, so as to preserve peace between our nations.

Signed,

Herman Willem Daendels
Foriegn Minister to His Majesty, Stadtholder Wilhelm V of Orange
The United Provinces of The Netherlands

TO: Madrid, Spain
FROM: The Hauge, United Provinces

To His Majesty, By the Grace of God Almighty, Charles III of Spain:

My dear King, your recent announcements pertianing to the claim of both South America and the Carribean Islands has both worried and confused my countrymen.

As you may or may not know, the Dutch East India Company and her subsidiaries currently operate colonies in Guiana, The Dutch Antilles, Aruba and the Spice Islands, all of which are under your new claims. In previous times, you have fully aknowladged the exsistance of these colonies as soviergn Dutch property, but as of late, it seems those previous reassurances have been dis-regarded.

We sincerely hope that the Spanish Crown will withdraw her claims over Dutch Territories within the Americas, so as to preserve peace between our nations.

Signed,

Herman Willem Daendels
Foriegn Minister to His Majesty, Stadtholder Wilhelm V of Orange
The United Provinces of The Netherlands
Those terratorys, hertic, I accept are under your heel. Though I wish it otherwise I am afaid that that are yours by right of conquest and i hold no claim to the said terratorys.

King Charles the III of Spain.

TO: Madrid, Spain
FROM: The Hauge, United Provinces

To His Majesty, By the Grace of God Almighty, Charles III of Spain:

We thank you for your re-assurance on the matter.

May the Netherlands and Spain live in peace.

Signed,

Herman Willem Daendels
Foriegn Minister to His Majesty, Stadtholder Wilhelm V of Orange
The United Provinces of The Netherlands

Sweden would like to inform the Spanish Government that Swedish backed privateers have begun attacks on Spanish ships in the Caribbean, mainly on the convoys and single ships out of La Habana. We regret this action but it is a private venture. However, these men have Letters of Marque (ooc:legal protection) from our government, you may NOT hang these men if caught. If captured they must be sent back to Sweden for justice, not tried in Spanish courts.

Our commiserations for your losses at the hands of these ships.

King Karl X

Sweden sent ships against you, but says that they are private pirates so that you could not punish Sweden. Now they claim that you can neither punish the individuals who attack your ships, because they are sent from Sweden! Discusting, though ridiculous doublestandard and hypocracy is, once again, presented by the Swedes. Under these circumstances, Spanish actions against Sweden as a nation do look quite justified. Accepting these terms, however, can't be considered as an act of a proud catholic empire.

If such desicion is to be made, Poland will grant her support to our Most Catholic friends against the Swedish greed, bloodthirst and warmongering.


Jaromir Rokossowsky, The King of Poland

To: King Karl X of Sweden
From: King Charles the III of spain

I have to inform you that all Swedish pirates that we find in Spanish waters and that attack Spanish ships will be hung, and the crews will be pressed into joining his mejestys navy.

We shall hang them for they are little more than Pirates.

King Charles the III

Sweden sent ships against you, but says that they are private pirates so that you could not punish Sweden. Now they claim that you can neither punish the individuals who attack your ships, because they are sent from Sweden! Discusting, though ridiculous doublestandard and hypocracy is, once again, presented by the Swedes. Under these circumstances, Spanish actions against Sweden as a nation do look quite justified. Accepting these terms, however, can't be considered as an act of a proud catholic empire.

If such desicion is to be made, Poland will grant her support to our Most Catholic friends against the Swedish greed, bloodthirst and warmongering.


Jaromir Rokossowsky, The King of Poland


This applies to Swedish Nationals caught committing piracy. Other nationals must be tried in courts relevant to their nationality. And I will take the opportunity to point out now that the captain of one of the ships is Polish. Captain Janukowsky is at the helm of the Anne, a sweet British built frigate, and if captured, he should be sent to Poland for trial.

OOC: What was that? A letter to somebody, or just an announcement? I saw no sign. Anyways.

IC:


So, Swedes have managed to find an individual willing to commit horrible crimes under the flag of one of the worst enemies of his homeland against his catholic brothers? Hanging that man is what every nation should most certainly do, instead of shipping him here to get the same thing done by us. If crime is committed against Spain, then Spain is the country that'll judge him.

Swedish attempt to excuse their horrendous act of using criminals to rob ships to avoid consequences to their actual state is discusting. The fact that they have managed to hire a Polish criminal doesn't change this obvious fact.


Jaromir Rokossowsky, The King of Poland

We thank Poland for there support on this matter.

OOC: What was that? A letter to somebody, or just an announcement? I saw no sign. Anyways.

IC:


So, Swedes have managed to find an individual willing to commit horrible crimes under the flag of one of the worst enemies of his homeland against his catholic brothers? Hanging that man is what every nation should most certainly do, instead of shipping him here to get the same thing done by us. If crime is committed against Spain, then Spain is the country that'll judge him.

Swedish attempt to excuse their horrendous act of using criminals to rob ships to avoid consequences to their actual state is discusting. The fact that they have managed to hire a Polish criminal doesn't change this obvious fact.


Jaromir Rokossowsky, The King of Poland


Hire a Polish criminal? This is incredible. This man came to us asking for employment, obviously the Polish nation must be in a shocking enough state that it lets great leaders of men feel so negatively about their country that they no longer wish to remain there. No wonder Poland is in its present state.

Furthermore, evidence may be presented by Spanish authorities, but ultimate responsibility lies with the nation where the criminal hails from. We refuse to continue this pointless argument, the privateers are only taking ill-gotten gains anyway from exploited natives.

We shall speak no more on this.

A letter from Vienna:

We know well that you are not friendly to the French, and so are we, actualy we are in war with them. A coalition is abouth to be formed against the French, we have sent this letter to the king of England, Emperor of Germany, duke of Milan and ofcourse, you. We hope to get as many we can, so we can finish the French threat in Europe.
We are looking forward for your letter.

Signed:
Josef II. Prince of Austria

A letter from Vienna:

We know well that you are not friendly to the French, and so are we, actualy we are in war with them. A coalition is abouth to be formed against the French, we have sent this letter to the king of England, Emperor of Germany, duke of Milan and ofcourse, you. We hope to get as many we can, so we can finish the French threat in Europe.
We are looking forward for your letter.

Signed:
Josef II. Prince of Austria
Spain would be a willing participant in this coalition as long as we get the terratory souh of Bordeaux and west of Montpellier. Including those citys odviously. We already have men on the boarder ready to attck. There main army is too the south so you and The other allies can attack from the north and east.

ooc: i'll create a coalition thread to discuse it if i get more players to sign it (its two of us curently, but Wladenburg will prbably join as he is already in war and Vietnamexico also) and we will make our agreements and plans there.

OOC: Give me a link when you do it