NationStates Jolt Archive

Cleared Press Release ~ Foreign and Colonial Office

The Foreign and Colonial Office, in conjunction with the Ministry of Defence and the Office of the Governor-General of Neo-Praetonia, is pelased to announce that the construction of a defensive line around the land borders of Neo-Praetonia in order to facilitate the defence of the colony should an attack be launched upon it. The line is to be constructed by the Imperial Colonial Army of Neo-Praetonia along with a large number of home & colonial civilian construction contractors.

The line will strench from the Manium great river and Empire Bay to the shores of the ocean surrounding Greater Manium. The line will be constructed along the best defensive terrain available close to the border, and so many sections will be several miles back from the actual border on higher ground overlooking land in front. The area in front of the line will be cleared and scoured of all foliage in order to ensure the best lines of fire and limitted to no concealment for an approaching enemy to take advantage of.

The line itself will consist of three trench systems each of three physical trench lines, punctuated every mile by reinforced concrete bunkers armed with heavy machineguns and anti-tank missiles. Between each stage, short range field SAMs will be mounted in order to suppress or destroy any low fly aircraft or helicopters. Behind each trench system, larger emplaced SAM batteries, mortars and heavy artillery batteries will be located in order to suppress aircraft at a longer range and destroy troop and vehicle concentrations approaching the trench system.

In front of each trench line, an entanglement of mined barbed wire and tank obstacles will be mixed with soft, waterlogged ground designed to disrupt the advance of infantry and halt the progress of tanks and other armoured vehicles. Directly in front of each trench line, a pit 12ft deep and 7 across will be dug to prevent infantry that reach the lines from passing across into the trenches themselves. Each pit will be mined and filled with barbed wire and a low level of water.

The trenches themselves will be constructed of steel reinforced concrete with mantletted gun ports for rifles, machineguns and anti-tank guided missiles. The troops themselves will be housed in dugouts 18ft below ground constructed of concrete and equipped with running water, electricity and central heating which will also store spare ammnition, NBC equipment, disinfectant and spare weapons.

Each trench line will be linked to the others via underground tunnels which can be detonated as troops retreat, or can be detonated remotely later. Each trench system is linked to every other and to railheads via an underground tube system which can carry freight or troops, and can also be collapsed remotely or can have its power removed for a limitted or indefinate amount of time.

When completed, this system will easily be one of the most technologically advanced and expensive in the world. The system is to be funded by the Praetonian Government, the Neo-Praetonian Colonial Government and a group of business benefactors looking to keep their interests in Neo-Praetonia secure from enemy invasion which is beginning to look more and more like a realistic possibility.

The line will be manned in peacetime by a skeleton force of 1,500,000 professional Colonial Guardsmen, and in wartime by calling up a reserve to bring the total to over 12,000,000 spread over the massive border. Only one trench system is intended to be occupied at any one time, with the others behind as a safe haven for a retreat, but it is theoretically possible for them al to be garrisoned at the same time.

The line is expected to cost more than 3.5 trillion Praefelis and 15 years to fully complete, but once completed is expected to be able to withstand an assault of any expected magnitude. The construction will hopefully also reinvigerate Praetonian construction firms which will benefit from the majority of the allocated money.

OOC: Sounds good. Once in place even the dreaded Senteils will have truoble attacking Neo-Preatonia.

[OOC: Quite. Well... AMF doesnt actually have any presence in Manium, so landward defences wont be too important against him, but Borman is pretty close to my border and Nycton appears to be becoming more militant, so this is quite important.]

About how big your total military if your putting 1.5 mil on the wall? :O

About how big your total military if your putting 1.5 mil on the wall? :O
[OOC: It depends what you mean. The Praetonian army is 2,000,000 strong (size of the WWI British BEF scaled up in line with my population, so small), however these are colonial troops recruited from the population of the colonies, and they arent professional volunteers like the others. They're conscripts who serve for 4 years from 18 - 22. In Neo-Praetonia you can choose national service or to do a degree / similar qualification and most of the national service men go into the army (the colonial airforce is small and professional, as is the colonial navy). They can then be called up in event of war or colonial emergency for up to 18 years after they complete national serivce. So that's a lot of manpower, but only with basic training and equipment. They're mostly intended just to sit behind their fortresses and shoot at stuff that attacks them, and as a matter of course I try not to have to deploy troops from Praetonia to fight colonial wars.]

Random bump.

OOC: nice line, i like the underground train system and bunkers.

I think the trenches may be a mistake, a somme mistake.

OOC: Yea, it soudns neat and cool and all that stuff, but seriously, wasn't the massive bunkerline defense out of date already in the 40's?

I have serious doubts of its usefulness in the modern combat.

OOC: Yea, it soudns neat and cool and all that stuff, but seriously, wasn't the massive bunkerline defense out of date already in the 40's?

I have serious doubts of its usefulness in the modern combat.


OOC: Maybe, but then again, this is a colonial line. If someone should attack his colony, Praetonia will be able to keep them off without contributing serious troops from his regular army. And that's exactly what he's trying to do, good job Praetonia!

[OOC: Well the Somme was a failure because the British were attacking trenches, so the trenches were actually quite successful as far as the Germans were concerned. This kind of defence is practically impossible to take with a straight infantry attack, and tanks will just bog down into the artificially created swamp in front of the trench lines. The Maginot Line was never actually breached, it was just ineptly designed (ie. it had a massive hole at one end) and major defensive lines have never actually been tried since then. There is no reason that it shouldnt work in a modern setting.]

And what exactly will be there to stop someone air striking a portion of your wall and then getting troops through there? Or better yet what about artillery?

OOC: the SAMS should put a stop to the aircraft shouldnt they. or at least hold them off till backup can arrive.

although in an unconventional manner you could use a viper system mine clearence device, to be fired across the trenches then detonated clearing a vast portion of mines and barbed wire

Not really. If the enemy brings a bunch of them over SAMS won't be able to stop them all, plus SAMS won't be able to do anything against high-altitude bombardment either. In addition there is still artillery. There is a reason why they don't build walls around cities anymore, its impractical. In todays warfare the one who survives is the one who is mobile, if you are stuck on a fixed position like a wall you're dead meat.

Well:

1) It isnt a wall. You can bomb it all you want and even if you kill all the troops (which is unlikely consideing they're in bunkers deeper and better built than the German ones which took direct 12" HE shell hits) you still need to get through about 5 miles of what is essentially a massive swamp full of mines, razorwire, tank traps and trapped ditches.

2) It's guarded by SAMs and my own airforce. If you have a massive aerial advantage then you may win air superiority and be able to inflict significant damage on the garrison, but I dont think you can depend on that. I have the advantage as I have SAMs in addition to just planes, and it's home territory.

3) I have my own artillery, and as soon as you fire I will fire back, only I'm bombarding unprepared positions and you're bombarding heavily fortified positions. Everything else being equal, I'll win.

bunkers? What about bunker busters? Also instead of precision shelling you i can just make a first strike with a couple of hudred MLRS completely clearing a part of your wall. Traps and so on can also be taken out by artillery.

Ahem...it would rather easy to breach, if one used a tactical nuke.

But such things are frowned upon in NS, and thus I am glad I will never have to attack this particular fortification. In other words, good job, Praetonia.

well the other point is the economic one, this would put a massive strain on your economy and not nessarcerily being at war you arnt going to be able to convice the populace to pay their taxes.

yes it is funded, but if your fancy smancy corporations dont get their share of the profits then they arnt going to be happy. upkeeping it in peacetime would be a hell hole.

i know you dont have to follow real life economics here, but just saying.

:eek: Ahem...it would rather easy to breach, if one used a tactical nuke.

But such things are frowned upon in NS, and thus I am glad I will never have to attack this particular fortification. In other words, good job, Praetonia.
Well then we can just say anything is weak because a tac nuke can kill it. Don't even go into Prae's policy on nuclear action.

Otherwise, nice job Prae. I think the idea is to bog the enemy down until reinforcements arrive, not to directly beat them. Am I right?

bunkers? What about bunker busters? Also instead of precision shelling you i can just make a first strike with a couple of hudred MLRS completely clearing a part of your wall. Traps and so on can also be taken out by artillery.
I'd like to see these bunker busters go through about 18 meters of mud and then another meter of concrete. These are considerably better constructed than anything modern bunker busters are designed to attack, and again - you have to launch them from something, and I have the defensive advantage in the air and on the ground. I also might perhaps notice you moving hundreds of rockets to the edge of the system and fireback, maybe? In addition to the fact that I have a number of anti-missile installations and just like on the Somme, even if you bury the trenches themselves, my men can climb out of their deep bunkers relatively unscathed and fire from shell holes you handily created, safe in the knowledge that there are another 8 trenches behind them. Not to say that I think you could realistically do that, considering that on the Somme they were firing large numbers of extremely heavy guns for a week solid, which you'd never be able to sneek into firing positions without my artillery noticing. And I have my doubts that you could clear a 5 mile deep line of fortifications with artillery, and even with you do, you still have to contend with the swamp. *shrug*

Kroblexskij - It's better to spend large amount of money than lose the whole colony, which was becoming a possibility because of hostile nations encroaching on its borders. The corporations arent expecting any profit from the line, they are donating out of the warmness of their hearts. That and they dont want their HQs being overrun by foreign troops. But anyway, Neo-Praetonia is ~2,000,000 people with a GDP per capita of ~$27,000, so ok, it's poorer than Praetonia, but it also doesnt have a massive navy.

Hogsweat - Pretty much. It does two things:

1) Forces people to make massive, easily spotted preparations before going to war, which also makes the war extremely expensive and unpleasant for the enemy.

2) Hold them up until an offensive army can be raised and trained or not, as the situation dictates.