NationStates Jolt Archive

ViZion is considering legalizing torture as a means to get information out of spies, enemies, and terrorists, as well as a punishment for murderers and rapists.

However, the oppositions feels it is far to inhumane, a view that the majority of ViZionarians have taken up on this subject.

It has yet to be decided upon, and ViZion is curious to know what the international community thinks of this.

We also wish to here what your nations feel about this, so please feel free to voice your opinions in a post!

Please see other post.

A provisional lobby formed of the 1st and 17th Vyborg Soviets and twelve Unions across the southern extent of the Igovian Soviet Commonwealth has been first to react. Letters have been sent, signed by elected officers of the lobby, to workers groups, military bodies, and other associations in ViZion, generally expressing solidarity with those opposing the dastardly proposal of institutionalised torture.

The documents state typical Igovian bafflement at such ideas as the one that ViZion itself is somehow an empowered entity able to make decisions and torture individuals, and in some cases go so far as to urge disassociation with the state in question. One paragraph appeals -as is typical of communiqués sent by Igovian citizens groups- to the people to reject any authority that would bring about this absurd debate and offers Commonwealth association to recipiant workers' groups (a wildly optimistic approach in most cases).

The general tone is, typically, one likely to resonate poorly with the citizenry of a foreign nation state as it goes beyond condemning torture and on to insisting that, "ViZion" is not something real that needs protecting, and that torture would be yet another tool in protecting the irrelevant interests of the minority from yet more people of the world.

Well, if you will ask...

Official Imperial Response

YES!!!

Torture as punishment is good. This and a practice of swift executions have made crime in Potty 5 disappear.

Also should not the punishment fit the crime? In Potty 5 rapists-murderers are routinely castrated... with a knife with out any anesthetic or antibiotics. Though this may seem brutal it worked well in Potty 5. (Though welfare and education were also greatly increased, as was the Law and Order budget)

Torture as a means to acquire a confession is not a good general practice. The too should not be confused.

WEC Renret, World renowned expert on Potty 5 and its people

We belive, that Torture is the way forward for a nation, We know that both our nations have had difficulties in the current hostile situation that is brewing at Xirnium, but we feel that having an indepth knowledge of torture practices and methods, you would benefit slighlty from our input.

We have found that torture is a perfect means to curb crime, criminals brought to the point of death multiple times by our Reichmarshals, leave rehabilitated, never again wanting to Commit any crimes in fear of returning to the Secret Police headquaters at the Imperial Palace, this has a domino effect, people seeing the broken soul of the criminal and warding them off commiting crimes themselves, We urge your nation to take up Torture and hope that you will see a dramatic decrease of Crime in your capitol.

The High Command

Houses Of Parliament, Kingston

"It has come to our attention, honourable Ministers of Parliament, that the nation of ViZon is considering the use of torture..."

The house resounds with shouts of "For Shame!"

"...the use of torture, honourable delegates, as a means of interrogation!"
"For shame! For shame!"
"And shall this Parliament endorse such a travesty, honourable Ministers?"
"Under no circumstances!"

The main body of MPs grumbles "hear, hear" and Parliament is dismissed for its lunch hour.

(No, and if you do we will declare war on you!)

whats wrong with torture...

Is Doujin about to send a DOW to every nation using these effective, non-sissy means against internal threats? if so, there is quite a lot of job for you...

The confederacy wish to give their support to Doujin

What kind of torture?

South Helghan approves of 'interrogation' to an extent. We usually beat them, shine flashlights at their eye, and other things to destory his/her will. But we don't do extreme forms of torture such as putting hot pieces of metal on their body or using them as lab rats.

Unofficial Communiqué of the Republic of Praetoria Novus
From: The Senate of the Republic of Praetoria Novus
To: The Executive Government of the Juris Naturalis Nation of ViZion

Before I start, I must take pains to point out that it has never been the policy of the Senate of the Republic to interfere with the sovereign domestic affairs of any nation, so in no way is this to be considered an official response of the Praetoria Novian government to your proposed policy. It is, at best, an unofficial and private letter.

That said, the Senate feels your actions are grossly misguided. The individual rights of a nation’s citizens should always be held sacrosanct, and the Republican Senate would never dream of so violating them by introducing the cruel and unusual practise of torture either as a method of intelligence gathering or punishment. The citizens of every nation should be immune to such an abhorrent and undemocratic system. Their rights must be every nation’s highest priority.

Of course, a nation’s position as regards foreign nationals is not so simple. The Senate of the Republic will only cryptically say (unofficially of course) that it considers the vital interests and security of the Senate and People of the Republic to override all other concerns.

[Signed]
Attorney-General
Senator Lucious Varus Quintilius

Yeah, but there are some forms of torture that are a tad bit inhuman like using prisoners as lab rats or other extreme measures such as South Helghan, usually some little things are good enough to annoy them such as mooning them repeatedly.. it works on some criminals though but yeah torture is an effective method and I say legalize only certain forms though.

what do you mean by torture...for the Morvonian police and military we use physchological(SP?) torture and only resort to physical torture in extreme cases.

The Imperial Land of Findan would be appaled at the idea of torture, even on terrorists.

Emperor Samuel II
Emperor
Imperial Land of Findan

Sir Charles Hassahoff
Foriegn Minister
Imperial Land of Findan

Sir Reginald Cooper
Defense Minister
Imperial Land of Findan

The United Republics of Jankia votes "Abseloutly Not!". This is extremely inhumane. Even on terrorists, Let them sit in jail, torturing will do no good if they are true to their cause. If they know you will not kill them they will simply not give answers, you will probably kill the person because they are not answering before you get any information out of him.

Yukatan Parliment has just passed the same law but under certain premenses. Only to be used on suspected terrorists, captured terrorists, and Spies. I hope this has influenced you decision on this.

The United Republics of Jankia votes "Abseloutly Not!". This is extremely inhumane. Even on terrorists, Let them sit in jail, torturing will do no good if they are true to their cause. If they know you will not kill them they will simply not give answers, you will probably kill the person before you get any information out of him.
Findan wholeheartdly argees with this.

A count has been performed, and at the time of the count, 18 are against it, and 21 are for it.

[OOC: I would say no. The information gained from such interrogations is rarely accurate and it's somewhat hippocryful for a nation such as yours to be engaging in it anyway. Saying that, I wouldnt declare war on you or go crazy, you'd just be reclassified by the Foreign & Colonial Office a 'State of Dubious Credentials" in terms of human rights, and you'd probably be blacklisted for most arms sales. But you wouldnt be embargoed, and other than that very little actions would be taken.]

well torture in kroblexskij is illegal, but it doesnt stop the interior ministry interogaters. - mind you, its more of like hammers to toes and burning hair or eyes with cigars and so on, its not regulated and legal torture.

but yes the public frown on it, and the government is against it.

bump

ViZion is considering legalizing torture as a means to get information out of spies, enemies, and terrorists, as well as a punishment for murderers and rapists.

However, the oppositions feels it is far to inhumane, a view that the majority of ViZionarians have taken up on this subject.

It has yet to be decided upon, and ViZion is curious to know what the international community thinks of this.


The nation of Dri Vel feels that if ViZion does approve the use of torture, those that are goting to be administering it and those that are running the governmet should have to experiance for themselves the tortures that they are planing to use so that they will know exactly what it fells like.

[OOC: I would say no. The information gained from such interrogations is rarely accurate and it's somewhat hippocryful for a nation such as yours to be engaging in it anyway. Saying that, I wouldnt declare war on you or go crazy, you'd just be reclassified by the Foreign & Colonial Office a 'State of Dubious Credentials" in terms of human rights, and you'd probably be blacklisted for most arms sales. But you wouldnt be embargoed, and other than that very little actions would be taken.]
OOC:Prea, your postion is a most sensible one.

ViZion has officially maintained its ban on torture!

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=448973