NationStates Jolt Archive


Design Specs for Next Gen Tanks Leaked

Scandavian States
08-10-2005, 19:35
..::ScandavianDefenseReview.com::..

An unknown source within the Imperial Army's Research & Development Command has leaked preliminary design specifications for the Imperium's next generation of main battle tanks.

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M-3 Arbiter MBT
::Armament:::
Main Gun: 145mm High Velocity ETC w/ 4-cylinder rotary loader and EMR
Missiles: Persephone ATGM with launchers recessed into hull or turret, 6-cell LOSGR in aft part of hull w/ vertical launch config
Supplementary: Two 9mm automatic cannons in ball turrets mounted on sides of hull

::Electronic Systems::
MLTDIS, MkII: On top of MkI functions, integrates all sensors to the new tanker suits so that tank crew has unparalleled knowledge of the battlefield
Full Spectrum Targetting System: Uses hundreds of tiny cameras across the entire EM spectrum to assist the tank commander in selecting targets
MSTWR, MkIII: Adds warning systems for sonic imaging and now works to pinpoint ECM sources
Battlefield Neural Network: A supercomputer that assists the Electronics Operations Officer in running all electronics systems. The operating system is basically a neural net AI that is programmed to learn everything it can about the enemy, from tactics to vehicles and electronic emission signatures.

::PCM::
-Chaff and Smoke Grenades
-Flares, UV, and Sonic Decoys

::Passive Defenses::
Alexandria Armour Package: Two layers of Osmium alloy armour sandwiching a "left-handed" 3D polymer matrix filled with electrolytic fluid and backed by electrospun fiber blanket interwoven with an extremely fine stainless steel wire mesh to help contained spalling and fragments. Brackets for slat armour and ERA are included

Physical Missile Defense System: Hexagonally segmented strips of metal are slotted into grooves along the edges of the tank's hull and backed by high explosives. When a missile threat appears the EOO tasks the Neural Net with removing the threat, which then selects how many segments are necessary to defend the tank and engages the threat.

Chameleon Skin: A paint that acts much like the skin of the self-camoflaguing lizard. It isn't fast too change, but it will help a tank adapt it coloring to its surroundings.


M-4 Adjudicator MBT
::Armament:::
Main Gun: 150mm High Velocity ETC w/ 4-cylinder rotary loader and EMR
Missiles: Persephone ATGM with launchers recessed into hull or turret
Supplementary: Two 9mm automatic cannons in ball turrets mounted on sides of hull

::Electronic Systems::
MLTDIS, MkII: On top of MkI functions, integrates all sensors to the new tanker suits so that tank crew has unparalleled knowledge of the battlefield
Full Spectrum Targetting System: Uses hundreds of tiny cameras across the entire EM spectrum to assist the tank commander in selecting targets
MSTWR, MkIII: Adds warning systems for sonic imaging and now works to pinpoint ECM sources
Battlefield Neural Network: A supercomputer that assists the Electronics Operations Officer in running all electronics systems. The operating system is basically a neural net AI that is programmed to learn everything it can about the enemy, from tactics to vehicles and electronic emission signatures.

::PCM::
-Chaff and Smoke Grenades
-Flares, UV, and Sonic Decoys

::Passive Defenses::
Alexandria Armour Package: Two layers of Osmium alloy armour sandwiching a "left-handed" 3D polymer matrix filled with electrolytic fluid and backed by electrospun fiber blanket interwoven with an extremely fine stainless steel wire mesh to help contained spalling and fragments. Brackets for slat armour and ERA are included

Physical Missile Defense System: Hexagonally segmented strips of metal are slotted into grooves along the edges of the tanks hull and backed by high explosives. When a missile threat appears the EOO tasks the Neural Net with removing the threat, which then selects how many segments are necessary to defend the tank and engages the threat.

Chameleon Skin: A paint that acts much like the skin of the self-camoflaguing lizard. It isn't fast to change, but it will help a tank adapt it coloring to its surroundings.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Several things are clear:
1) The similarity in design specs means the Imperial Army is taking commonality and modularity past the new order of battle.
2) The Korento ATGM is being replaced with the Persephone ATGM. However, the Persephone is an unknown quality at this time.
3) The sensor suites on tanks have become so advanced that it will, when these tanks are built, take an officer or warrant officer with the appropriate training to operate them.
4) Research into metamaterials has appeared to payed off, with their appearance making itself especially known in the new armour scheme.
Scandavian States
09-10-2005, 06:24
[bump]
Omz222
09-10-2005, 06:31
OOC: Very interesting indeed. Two questions - 1) What are their weight chasses? and 2) Will there be possible export variants for allies, perhaps as part of some sort of a deal?
Scandavian States
09-10-2005, 07:03
[Haven't decided yet on the weight. Their won't be any export variants, but I will sell to selected allies.

EDIT: I've decided on a weight of 23.39 lbs/m^3 for the Arbiter and 29.98 lbs/m^3 for the Adjudicator. Their final real weights will be determined by their dimensions.]
Sarzonia
09-10-2005, 07:17
OOC: A couple of concerns: 1) the main gun is just too enormous. I can see a 150 mm main gun if it's a conventional smoothbore, but an ETC gun is by definition bigger and more powerful, but it's also a much larger strain on a tank hull, so you're talking about a hull that's probably going to be on the order of 100 tons.

The second thing that I notice (and if you're just drawing up some prelim stuff, that's all right) is that you don't go into a great deal of detail when it comes to the electronics suite. You don't have to tell every single detail of every system, but at least a couple of the more advanced systems with a description of what it does is in order.

On another note, the M-3 doesn't seem to have a very substantial secondary armament. Perhaps adding a 40 mm grenade launcher and/or a 30 mm autocannon would be useful. Perhaps also explaining the tank CIWS system if you have one would be a good idea. Also, an explanation of the chameleon skin would be in order (if it's out there, perhaps in a Abrams replacement coming down the pike, that could be a good explanation).

As far as having an engine goes, these tanks seem to be super powerful, but they're going to have to sacrifice quite a bit in terms of mobility to carry such a gigantic gun. It's almost as if these are really self-propelled artillery pieces rather than main battle tanks.
Scandavian States
09-10-2005, 07:27
[If I were using traditional materials these things would quite easily go into the 100 ton range, but extensive use of metamaterials allows me to get away with quite a bit in the way of weight savings.

As for more secondary armament like a 30mm chaingun, no. Imperial design philosophy for tanks emphasizes a couple of powerful weapons and basic active self-defense weapons couple with advanced electronics suites. IFVs carry the large automatic weapons and work in conjuction with heavy armour on the battlefield. Besides that, I hate the complexity of designs like the IPO-145.

EDIT: As for mobility, I've decided to keep to the standard of the Abrams. They're quite fast tanks and I see nothing wrong with using it as a basis for my tanks. Also, these are prelim design notes, I'm probably going to kick both main guns down about 5 or 10mm.]
Omz222
09-10-2005, 07:37
OOC: I can see the simplicity in this design in terms of the range of secondary weapons, and keep in mind that secondary armaments are more useful for infantry support rather than anything else. This probably has the advantage of a room for a bigger gun (obviously) and a greater ammunition load, which makes it suitable more as a tank in the breakthrough role.
Scandavian States
09-10-2005, 07:47
[Exactly. The 9mm ball turrets are the tank's primary defense against infantry, and I'll probably add a remote turret topside to deal with forward threats. As it is, I rely heavily on combined arms doctrine, so these tanks will have plenty of anti-infantry support, including friendly infantry.]
Bretton
09-10-2005, 08:00
I would prefer a somewhat heavier caliber for antipersonnell work, but otherwise these seem to be decent pieces of work.

I have to ask, though, why would you mount your 9mm turrets on opposite sides of the hull? Would it not be better to have them coaxially mounted in the turret such that they could be utilized for suppression fire while the main gun is targeting or reloading?

Furthermore, could we get a per-unit cost estimate? That would definately help stack up these vehicles against other, more unconventional designs, such as Axis Nova's A1 Admiral or my own A7V Peacemaker in terms of a total cost basis.
Scandavian States
09-10-2005, 08:07
[To prevent flanking attacks by light vehicles and infantry, I plan on adding a remote turret to the main turret to deal with aerial and forward/after threats that don't merit my main weapons.

As for price, we're talking a minimum of 10 million and more probably 15 million for the smaller MBT.]
Praetonia
09-10-2005, 08:43
[OOC: I think Sarz is right about the gun, tbh. 150mm or even 145mm ETC is unnecessarily large, and in any reasonably sized tank platform it's going to have a short barrel relative to bore, and will have monumental recoil. Generally tank-to-tank combat takes place using long rod sabots, and for that a large bore simply isnt necessary. Also bear in mind that chobham, which is the lightest RL armour scheme that Ive seen, still pushes the Challenger II up to 60 tonnes with only ~1,000mm RHA of protection. Granted, you can use better materials, but considering the overall massiveness of the gun and the fact that you will probably want more than ~1,000mm RHA, the tanks are going to be unnecessarily large.

As for secondary armament - it's a matter of doctrine. I have a small standing army, so I like to have vehicles that can fulfill numerous different roles, no matter how expensive it becomes to purchase and maintain them. You, I imagine, have a larger standing army which would benefit more from a few different types of more specialised vehicles. Other than that, I cant see much wrong with it, except the osmium, which is rare and extremely expensive.]
Scandavian States
09-10-2005, 09:16
[Actually, the Chobham/Dorchester scheme isn't lighter than hardened steel plate, since it utilizes DU, but it is exponentially more effective and thus the weight penalty is acceptable. Also, I don't expect either tank will be under 80 tons, but that is an acceptable weight for me.

As for the bore size, you are incorrect. Even assuming the long rods from your 120mm ETC can reach 2.6km/s, they won't punch through more than 1,800mm of PHA, assuming you're using DU sabots. Given the state of armour on NS tanks, that is not acceptable. Hell, the long rods on my hovertank's 120mm ETC barely pushes past 2,000mm RHA using an osmium alloy sabot with a speed of 2.4km/s.

As for the osmium itself, I have ample supply because of the concentrations of rare earth minerals the Galicia Isles possess. That doesn't make it as cheap as aluminum or steel, but it's cheaper to acquire than it would be IRL.]
Praetonia
09-10-2005, 10:18
[OOC: Armour - indeed, but as you say (and as I meant) chobham is considerably lighter in terms of equivalent RHA thickness.

Anyway, as I said before, you arent going to have a very long barrel compared to bore size whilst at the same time firing a much heavier projectile, so you're not going to get an equivalent velocity to that of a 120mm ETC or similar. Compound that with the fact that mounting such a massive gun would easily push the chassis up to 100 tonnes... you're looking at SP artillery, not a tank. Even your quoted penetration of 2,000mm for the 120mm is enough to have a chance of penetrating the front armour of any realistic NS MBT.]
Scandavian States
09-10-2005, 10:40
[Praetonia, I don't think you quite comprehend the kind of weight-savings can be had using metamaterials. The copy of Army Logistician I have in front of me quotes tons in heavy vehicles simply by replacing copper wiring with a left-handed plastic equivilant. Consider that I'm using other metamaterialls in key places (such as the frame) to reduce weight and I don't have to worry about a bridge-wrecking 100-ton behemoth. As I said before, if we were talking about conventional materials the Arbiter would weigh in at 136 tons, instead it only weighs in at 82 tons.

Anyway, here are the semi-final stats for the M-3 Arbiter MBT.]


M-3 Arbiter Main Battle Tank
Production Cost: 12 Million USD
Purchase Cost: 15 Million USD
Designed By: Arkangel'skie Voennye Sistemy
Produced By: Arkangel'skie Voennye Sistemy
Weight: 82 tons
Height: 10.25 Feet (3.12 Meters)
Width: 13.5 Feet (4.12 Meters)
Length: 37 Feet (11.28 Meters)
Crew: 4 (Driver, Gunner, Commander, and Electronics Operations Officer)
Propulsion: Front-Mounted Isomer Reactor Turbine
Speed:
40 Miles per Hour (65 Kilometers per Hour) Top Speed
30 Miles per Hour (49 Kilometers per Hour) Cross Country
20 Miles per hour (33 Kilometers per Hour) 10% Gradient
5 Miles per Hour (8 Kilometers per Hours) 60% Gradient
Endurance: Limited only to crew comfort and supplies
Armour: Alexandria. Two layers of Osmium alloy armour hardened using Improved Plasma Immersion Ion Implantation sandwiching a "left-handed" 3D polymer matrix filled with electrolytic fluid and backed by electrospun fiber blanket interwoven with an extremely fine stainless steel wire mesh to help contained spalling and fragments. Brackets for slat armour and ERA are included.
Front: 3,500mm
Sides: 1,250mm
Rear: 1,400mm
Top: 875mm
Armament: 140mm Electro-Thermal Chemical Main Gun - A second generation high-velocity ETC was the weapon of choice for the Arbiter, the extensive use of left-handed metaplastics in the wiring, EMR, and barrel-lining have helped to drop the weight significantly. Penetration is still rated at 4,016mm of Rolled Homogenous Armour for an osmium alloy APFSDS, but experiments are underway to determine if more blood can be squeezed from the rock.

(3) 9mm Automatic Cannons - Two anti-personal cannons are mounted on the sides of the tank in ball turrets and a third is mounted topside in a remote turret config.

Persephone Anti-Tank Guide Missile Launcher - Each launcher is recessed into the turret of the tank and is capable of firing a single missile. The Persephone ATGM has a range of 20 Kilometers and is guided by UV and Sonic Imaging. With its three warheads it is fully capable of killing almost any tank is one shot.

6-Pack LOSGR Launcher - Probably the strangest weapon on any Imperial tank, the Line-Of-Sight Guided Rocket is quite a lot like the LOSAT. The main difference is the smaller size and slightly greater range. The missiles are meant to be fired in swarms against infantry, light armoured vehicles, and aircraft. Guidance is much like the Persephone, but somewhat easier to fool due to the missiles' smaller size, which is the reason for the swarm tactics. The penetrator is a smaller but dense Osmium-Tungsten rod that will wreak havoc upon any of its intended targets and would probably make life harder for a Main Battle Tank.


Electronic Systems:
Multi-Level Tactical Digital Information System, MkII - The MLTDIS (pronounced Malt-Dis) is in some ways much like IVIS in that it is meant to share and coordinate combat data among many units. On the Vampire this can occur from the platoon level all the way up to the brigade level, although not at the same time. Access is granted to the system by simply plugging it into the new Combat Suit, Tanker and initiating a retina scan. Using this system has been described as something akin to Godhood; simply select your destructive device of choice, look at the target, make a simple tapping motion with your index finger, and the target disappears in a fireball within a few seconds.

Pulse LIDAR Targeting System - The PLIDARTS (pronounced Ply-Darts) is meant as a way of fooling active anti-laser counter-measures. Instead of a steady stream of ultra-violet light that most laser targeting systems provide, it uses pulses of light to track targets. The pulses come fast enough that targeting of the main gun does not suffer but at even the fastest setting allow for several clock cycles to pass on the processing chips inside enemy counter-measures. An added feature is the ability to program the laser to randomly pulse between the set acceptable highest and slowest time values; this adds even more confusion to enemy counter-measures.

Multi-Spectrum Threat Warning Receiver, MkIII - The MSTWR (pronounced Mist-War) is a simple detection system designed to warn tanks crews of potential enemy targeting systems being directed upon their Arbiter. It is also capable of giving the bearing, possible range, and type of targeting based upon known performance data of enemy systems. Obviously, if one does not know what one is facing then it is extremely hard to take advantage of this feature. The system is also tied into a jamming system that is capable of neutralizing most targeting systems. The system is now capable of detecting Sonic Imaging.


Counter-Measures: Beyond the aforementioned electronic counter-measure system, there are a few physical counter-measures afforded to the tank. One is a fog generator that is capable of producing clouds of fog to fool laser-targeting systems and allow for tactical retreats to regroup. The other is a chaff/flare canister launching system that is installed into the turret itself. It is arranged into a hexagon pattern and the canisters are packed three deep in order to provide adequate protection against radar-guided missiles. Finally, the turbine is placed forward in a rear-facing mount so as to both provide extra protection to the crew and to not expose the crew or people outside to the gamma radiation given off by the isomers in the event of a piercing hit. Also, a new Physical Defense System is installed which uses hexagonally segmented strips of metal are slotted into grooves along the edges of the tank's hull and backed by high explosives. When a missile threat appears the EOO tasks the Neural Net with removing the threat, which then selects how many segments are necessary to defend the tank and engages the threat.


Survivability Systems: Full Nuclear-Biological-Chemical protection. Armoured crew ?pod? to separate crew from engine and external weapons damage. Armoured ammo storage area to protect tank from sympathetic detonations resulting from enemy fire.


Tank Systems: Computer-controlled electrorheological suspension. Hydrothermal exhaust system to reduce IR signature and protect infantry from turbine blast.
Praetonia
09-10-2005, 10:48
[OOC: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meta_materials - Nothing here says anything about reductions in weight, or any inherent advantages in using metamterials for armour. I cant say Im particularly familiar with these, but although I understand that weight savings can be made by making wiring out of plastics etc, I dont see how these could be used to make armour lighter, or guns lighter.]
Scandavian States
09-10-2005, 11:11
[That article doesn't even tap the surface of what metamaterials are. If I had a scanner I'd send you the article, but unfortunately I don't even have a working printer. Anyway, I'll try to address how metamaterials can be used in each of the instances you questioned.

EMR Rifling: Normally to harness something like this you'd be talking about using a couple hundred pounds of Yttrium wire or other similar metal as well as the necessary supercoolant system to utilize such a system. Certain left-handed metaplastics are superconducters at normal temps; the weight savings should be obvious.

Armour: I could use an aluminum-vandium alloy or some other lightweight metal, but you can't make a 3D matrix without significant welding, but then it wouldn't be strong enough to take a hit from a sabot and would only help a HEAT round. Metaplastics can be engineered to form a homgenous matrix, won't shatter if hit with a sabot, and stand a fair chance of helping disrupt a penetrating CE shot. Plus, it's simply lighter than metal.]
Praetonia
09-10-2005, 11:26
[OOC: Hmmm... I'll read up on these metamaterials... they seem too good to be true though, and so in my experience, they probably are.]
Scandavian States
09-10-2005, 11:58
[A nanoengineer is a child playing in the universe's sandbox. What most people fail to realize is that we're on the verge of being able to fuck with the universe however we please. This is nothing, the really crazy things are going to start to come towards the end of our lifetime.]
Scandavian States
09-10-2005, 13:31
M-4 Adjudicator Main Battle Tank
Production Cost: 15 Million USD
Purchase Cost: 18 Million USD
Designed By: Arkangel'skie Voennye Sistemy
Produced By: Arkangel'skie Voennye Sistemy
Weight: 98 tons
Height: 10.5 Feet (3.2 Meters)
Width: 15.5 Feet (4.72 Meters)
Length: 36 Feet (10.97 Meters)
Crew: 4 (Driver, Gunner, Commander, and Electronics Operations Officer)
Propulsion: Front-Mounted Isomer Reactor Turbine
Speed:
40 Miles per Hour (65 Kilometers per Hour) Top Speed
30 Miles per Hour (49 Kilometers per Hour) Cross Country
20 Miles per hour (33 Kilometers per Hour) 10% Gradient
5 Miles per Hour (8 Kilometers per Hours) 60% Gradient
Endurance: Limited only to crew comfort and supplies
Armour: Alexandria. Two layers of Osmium alloy armour hardened using Improved Plasma Immersion Ion Implantation sandwiching a "left-handed" 3D polymer matrix filled with electrolytic fluid and backed by electrospun fiber blanket interwoven with an extremely fine stainless steel wire mesh to help contained spalling and fragments. Brackets for slat armour and ERA are included.
Front: 4,000mm
Sides: 2,000mm
Rear: 1,600mm
Top: 1,000mm
Armament: 145mm Electro-Thermal Chemical Main Gun - A second generation high-velocity ETC was the weapon of choice for the Adjudicator, the extensive use of left-handed metaplastics in the wiring, EMR, and barrel-lining have helped to drop the weight significantly. Penetration is rated at 4,490mm RHA.

(3) 9mm Automatic Cannons - Two anti-personal cannons are mounted on the sides of the tank in ball turrets and a third is mounted topside in a remote turret config.

Persephone Anti-Tank Guide Missile Launcher - Each launcher is recessed into the turret of the tank and is capable of firing a single missile. The Persephone ATGM has a range of 20 Kilometers and is guided by UV and Sonic Imaging. With its three warheads it is fully capable of killing almost any tank is one shot.


Electronic Systems:
Multi-Level Tactical Digital Information System, MkII - The MLTDIS (pronounced Malt-Dis) is in some ways much like IVIS in that it is meant to share and coordinate combat data among many units. On the Vampire this can occur from the platoon level all the way up to the brigade level, although not at the same time. Access is granted to the system by simply plugging it into the new Combat Suit, Tanker and initiating a retina scan. Using this system has been described as something akin to Godhood; simply select your destructive device of choice, look at the target, make a simple tapping motion with your index finger, and the target disappears in a fireball within a few seconds.

Pulse LIDAR Targeting System - The PLIDARTS (pronounced Ply-Darts) is meant as a way of fooling active anti-laser counter-measures. Instead of a steady stream of ultra-violet light that most laser targeting systems provide, it uses pulses of light to track targets. The pulses come fast enough that targeting of the main gun does not suffer but at even the fastest setting allow for several clock cycles to pass on the processing chips inside enemy counter-measures. An added feature is the ability to program the laser to randomly pulse between the set acceptable highest and slowest time values; this adds even more confusion to enemy counter-measures.

Multi-Spectrum Threat Warning Receiver, MkIII - The MSTWR (pronounced Mist-War) is a simple detection system designed to warn tanks crews of potential enemy targeting systems being directed upon their Arbiter. It is also capable of giving the bearing, possible range, and type of targeting based upon known performance data of enemy systems. Obviously, if one does not know what one is facing then it is extremely hard to take advantage of this feature. The system is also tied into a jamming system that is capable of neutralizing most targeting systems. The system is now capable of detecting Sonic Imaging.


Counter-Measures: Beyond the aforementioned electronic counter-measure system, there are a few physical counter-measures afforded to the tank. One is a fog generator that is capable of producing clouds of fog to fool laser-targeting systems and allow for tactical retreats to regroup. The other is a chaff/flare canister launching system that is installed into the turret itself. It is arranged into a hexagon pattern and the canisters are packed three deep in order to provide adequate protection against radar-guided missiles. Finally, the turbine is placed forward in a rear-facing mount so as to both provide extra protection to the crew and to not expose the crew or people outside to the gamma radiation given off by the isomers in the event of a piercing hit. Also, a new Physical Defense System is installed which uses hexagonally segmented strips of metal are slotted into grooves along the edges of the tank's hull and backed by high explosives. When a missile threat appears the EOO tasks the Neural Net with removing the threat, which then selects how many segments are necessary to defend the tank and engages the threat.

[Next up!

Btw Prae, if you want to read up on metamaterials try to get ahold of the Sep-Oct issue of Army Logistician.]
Bretton
09-10-2005, 13:50
[So, going at a price of $15 million for one M-3 MBT, you could build roughly two thousand of them for the price of one of my A7V Peacemaker heavyweight multi-legged tanks (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=9649096). Is a single Peacemaker worth two thousand of your Arbiters? A fine question. Obviously, two thousand tanks can occupy more ground than a single walking gun platform, but they would also be a marginally larger logistical headache (chiefly due to the fact that you'd have to keep track of all of them, whereas if you're going with the "giant spider tank" option, it's kinda hard to misplace it, eh?), and as always there's the ever-present nature of keeping the tank crews themselves properly supported, whereas my Peacemakers are completely automated, save for the manned command units. In any case.

Now, on the other end of the spectrum, you could build five of my AS-004H Stahlkörpe assault suits (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=9748368) for the same price as a single M-3 Arbiter. Now, I myself have always been an advocate of not sending assault suits to do battle with much more heavily-armed MBTs for obvious reasons. An assault suit, as far as my military is concerned, is a general infantry replacement. And while it can absorb thousands more small arms fire and other nasty battlefield technology that is doom for a grunt with a .223-caliber assault rifle and a flak jacket, not to mention is ingeniously protected against HEAT rounds, even its armor is no match for a large-caliber kinetic-kill weapon, such as an APFSDS shell. Assumedly an ETC affair would have similar, if not superior, results. Also, the assault suit does rob the infantryman of one slim advantage he had over an MBT: he's a small target. Though they can half their height by crouching, while on the move a Stahlkörpe is a full twelve feet tall; even a tank commander who was asleep and high on heroin at the same time could see one of those coming at him. Though their limited active camouflage provides a modicum of stealth against the unaided eye, any kind of infrared/thermal or sonic targeting methods easily defeat this.

On the positive side, the assault suits do have a few advantages. Firstly, simple superiority in numbers. Five assault suits against a single heavily-armed tank. I believe that was supposed to be the "battlefield-proven mathematical forumula" of M4 Shermans required to disable or destroy a single PzKpfW V Panther. Now, this took a number of liberties into account, not the least of which that three or less M4s were expected to survive in operable condition. Of course, let us not forget that a single properly positioned PzKpfW VI Jadgtiger assault gun could fully waste ten or more T-34 and T-28 tanks, so I wouldn't rely on forumulas when conducting battlefield strategy. Moving right along...

While the assault suits may have the "advantage" of better speed and mobility, I'd assume that any tank intending to outclass the M1 Abrams would have the tracking means to plunk them if they were to attempt to rely on that asset alone. On the other hand, the assault suits themselves have a respectable amount of firepower at their disposals. The 14.5x115mm cartridge utilizied by them is a rather impressive bullet. Perhaps overkill for anti-infantry use, the standard solid slug bullet is capable of penetrating up to 33mm of armor; the HEAP round slightly moreso. A maximum effective range (albiet sacrificing some armor-piercing ability) of 2300 meters gives them a fairly good standoff range as well. An automatic ROF of 550 rounds per minute also delivers decent suppression capability. However, the main strength against armor lies in the 75mm grenade launcher. We manufacture all kinds of tasty ammunition for that bastard, including my personal favorite, the thermate incendiary grenade. Due to being caseless, the grenade launcher's magazine can be expended rather quickly, allowing an assault suit to put down some serious firepower in a short amount of time. The large-caliber grenades can be fired directly up to 250 meters, or even further, up to 430 meters, if given a proper firing angle and trajectory. Now, an RL thermate incendiary grenade burns for 40 seconds. During this time it can completely burn though a half-inch steel plate, often reaching temperatures well over 4,000 degrees. Scaled up from a 32-oz hand-thrown grenade to a 160-oz caseless projectile and you've got some major heat. If one or two Stahlkörpes were able to close to grenade range and begin unloading their magazines, that much thermate would probably be sufficient to fuse the main turret, possibly even the smaller ones on the sides, to the hull, severly reducing the tank's combat effectiveness. If I was lucky, sufficient barrel deformation may even occur to completely disable the primary gun. If that was the case, it would simply be a matter of forcing the crew to surrender (I assume the tank would have proper amenities to prevent its crew from suffering due to outside conditions) to neutralize the threat.

Naturally, a lot of this plan-of-attack would be based on luck and chance. There's no doubt that the tank has superior long-range firepower, armor protection, and a nifty complement of rockets, all of which my assault suits are in a reduced category of. Even still, it would be an interesting demonstration of both technologies working against each other.

Thoughts?]
Scandavian States
09-10-2005, 14:13
[A standup one-on-one battle would be interesting. However, do keep in mind that I rely heavily on combined arms. If one of your assault suits wanted to go after one of my tanks in a normal situation you'd have infantry in battlearmour and assault suits, IFVs, artillery, helos, and other tanks saying something about it. Obviously I'm not going to throw that much firepower against a single assault suit, but you get my point.]
Bretton
09-10-2005, 14:21
[Of course. All of my above is pretty much speculatory thoughts on what would happen when an equivalent amount of money in military hardware came together.]
Scandavian States
09-10-2005, 14:35
[5 assault suits to my one tank? That's a fairly even fight, I think. If one of my tank crews knew they were coming I think your assault suits would be in trouble; a Persephone to one each, split my LOSGRs between two more, and a main gun round to the last one. It'd be all of a ten second fight, but I'd have wasted most of my secondary armament to do it. On the other hand I could use my three 9mm turrets to hold your suits off while I use my main gun to do the dirty work, but with teamwork your suits stand a good chance of seriously hurting a lone tank. In an ambush situation, either way, the other guy is fucked.]
Bretton
09-10-2005, 14:50
[My assault suits utilise recently-developed electric/reactive armor to defeat HEAT warheads, typical of anti-tank missiles. I provided a link to the English website where the technology is discussed in my assault suits' profile page. Basically, it vaporisies the jet of molten copper than HEAT warheads use to breach armor, minimizing the damage inflicted by RPGs, anti-tank missiles, etc. Of course, it has no effect on HEAP or kinetic-kill weapon varieties; that we hope the armor itself will take care of. Also, my assault suits are provided with dischargers to dispense smoke canisters, chaff grenades, and flares to help prevent missiles from impacting in the first place.

Why all this protection against missiles and rockets, you say? Simple. The reason why powered armor, or on the higher end, full-on assault suits, are not currently feasible is because any pinhead with an RPG-7 and good aim can take one down. Thus, I've gone out of my way to protect them from commonplace find-'em-in-discount-weapon-stores antitank munitions.]
Scandavian States
09-10-2005, 15:06
[Oh, I know about the electric armour. Keep in mind that my missiles no longer utilize radar or IR, just UV and sonic imaging.]
Axis Nova
09-10-2005, 15:28
[Oh, I know about the electric armour. Keep in mind that my missiles no longer utilize radar or IR, just UV and sonic imaging.]

How, exactly, can sonic imaging be used on something moving so quickly?
Omz222
09-10-2005, 16:51
OOC: From what I can see, there is still a minor problem with the LOSGR in that at such a high speed, it would be simply impractical to integrate some form of guidance that involves sensors such as radar/IR/UV/whatever, which is why the LOSAT only has inertial guidance with a datalink between the missile and the launching vehicle. It wouldn't have mattered if this only an inertial guidance, since it's going to travel 1.5km per second anyways.
Scandavian States
09-10-2005, 18:43
[Omz, you have me thinking. I see I'm going to have to think of a solution that makes a guidance system practical.]
Scandavian States
10-10-2005, 19:41
[Just a quick note, I have decided to change the position of the popup ATGM launchers.]