NationStates Jolt Archive

A Papal messenger said to a large gathered crowd of nobles in the Rhineland that had gathered from all over Christendom, “The time has now come for us to aide our fellow Christians inside the Byzantine Empire that has come under the thread from Muslim nations and warriors. Also the time has come for all devout and loyal Catholic Knights, Lords, and Soldiers to assemble under one banner despite country or land of origin to gather. This army would go to destroy the Islamic nations of Asia Minor and after that to march to free the Holy Land from the grip of Muslim tyranny and punish them for the capture of Jerusalem and the destruction of Christian holy sites and banning our pilgrims from even visiting the Holy City, How will answer the call of ht pope?”

A Norman nobleman stood up and answered,” I the duke of Normandy and all my vassals shall join in this Holy Crusade to free the Holy Land from the infidel.”

Participants of the Crusade: (No more postions open for Crusader leaders)
The Duke of Normandy: The Scandinvans
Baron of Brittany: Deatharon
Duke of Gascony: Madnestan
Azaha: Dukes of Saxony
Wolfbench: Count of Carniolia
[NS]Parthini: Mungo MacDonnell
Lachenburg: Domain of Pisa

Islamic Leaders: (Postions still greatly avaible)
Nistolonia:Emir of Cryencia
DMG: Emir of Alexandria
Neath Talbot: Governor al-Muluk Duqaq of Damascus.

OOC: This an open thread to those who wish to participate. I will be acting as pope and the duke of Normandy. There kings, sultans, and emperors will be NPCs. Save when the Crusader states are established. You may be dukes, counts, earls, or other fairly major nobles or you may be a Muslim lord if you wish. You have to have soldiers and money of your own to supply for the Crusade. One final thing I am the MOD of this thread.

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Do we assume the country(ies) of the side we choose? Sort of like E20? So if I want to be the Turks, I use the population/weapons/leaders of the Turks in the 1000-1100s?

I may be interested in representing Muslim Spain. Any details on how this would work would be helpful.

Since people are already Muslims(Which I wanted to be) I won't crowd to one side, so I'll be something Christain... An Italian state or something to do with the Holy Roman Empire.

No, we are talking about acutal feudal society were the lords or emirs were often independant and not all reliant on the king or sultan. The feudal states suchs as Spain were divied into many lesser fiedoms and states that would fight amongst themselves as did many of the Lords of Europe at the time fight among themselves. Though they did rally to the kings and emperors in Europe they did so when it was for their own interest most of the time. This war is being based off of the acutal time when the goverments were heavily divied between royalists and the followers of the Lords. Their were very few people who could rally the lords and/or emirs though a few outstanding men such as Sladin did.

Also Azaha would you like to be the Duke of Saxnony of the Duke of Swabia?

Can I be one of the English Dukes?

Yeah you can be one of the English Dukes.

I will be the Baron of Brittany. I think I should play as a weaker noble since I am not use to these types of Rp's.

Okay Deatharon you have been added. Also this thread is more of a concept understood by people who know about the Cursades and Middle Ages.

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The Emir of Morocco.
At least I think it was called that back then. If not, an Emir in North Africa.

OOC: First off, which Crusade is this? The first was in 1096 started by Pope Urban II, and it was quite an international group, with members from France, Italy and England. From France, we have Hugh the (not so) Great, Count of Vermandois, brother of the French King of Northern and Central France. With him were Godfrey, Baldwin and Eustace of Bouillon, sons of the Duke of Lower Lorraine - descended through their mother from Charlemagne - along with their cousin, Baldwin Le Bourg. Also from France, we have Raymond IV of Saint-Gilles, Count of Toulouse, who had already fought the Moors in Spain. His mother was a princess of Barcelona. He was the first to "Take the Cross".

From England, we have Robert, Duke of Normandy, son of William the Conqueror. From Italy, we have Marcus Bohemond, Prince of Toranto, son of Robert Guiscard, a Norman who had not fallen too far from his barbarian tree, and also his nephew Tancred. And that is just the first, and thats not counting the muslim leaders...

There were in full 12 crusades, with only the 1-3rd (the fourth could be counted but the crusader armies got pissed at the Byzantine Emperor and sacked constantinople) crusades which were actually against 'Turks' in Asia Minor. So until you give proper details concerning this rp, I am not sure which side to choose nor whom to choose.

The Emir of Morocco.
At least I think it was called that back then. If not, an Emir in North Africa.Is the Emir of Cyrencia alright with you?

OOC: First off, which Crusade is this? The first was in 1096 started by Pope Urban II, and it was quite an international group, with members from France, Italy and England. From France, we have Hugh the (not so) Great, Count of Vermandois, brother of the French King of Northern and Central France. With him were Godfrey, Baldwin and Eustace of Bouillon, sons of the Duke of Lower Lorraine - descended through their mother from Charlemagne - along with their cousin, Baldwin Le Bourg. Also from France, we have Raymond IV of Saint-Gilles, Count of Toulouse, who had already fought the Moors in Spain. His mother was a princess of Barcelona. He was the first to "Take the Cross".

From England, we have Robert, Duke of Normandy, son of William the Conqueror. From Italy, we have Marcus Bohemond, Prince of Toranto, son of Robert Guiscard, a Norman who had not fallen too far from his barbarian tree, and also his nephew Tancred. And that is just the first, and thats not counting the muslim leaders...

There were in full 12 crusades, with only the 1-3rd (the fourth could be counted but the crusader armies got pissed at the Byzantine Emperor and sacked constantinople) crusades which were actually against 'Turks' in Asia Minor. So until you give proper details concerning this rp, I am not sure which side to choose nor whom to choose.
OOC: It is basically the First Crusade, but like the wars agaisnt the pagans on the Baltic coasts is is perputal. Also I would prefer that people make yup their own names for their lords, but not the titles that they hold.

OOC: Damn and I was hoping to be Saladin...very well. If you don't mind I could be sort of a historical background checker on the weapons and equipment each army had, so I'd be sort of a mod on keeping things in-line concerning weapons. What'cha think?

OOC: Okay you are the weapons mod. Though I retain my rights as main mod.

I'd like to represent you the Duke of Gascony, South West France. He isn't all that religious, but more like soldier, who needs a war. He seeks for glory and prestige, and some gold wouldn't do any harm neither... :rolleyes:
He comes with, should we say, 60 knights and vassals/armoured horsemen of his own and perhaps couple hundreds of men-at-arms. Gascony is formally part of the Kingdom of France, and the Duke will propably somehow follow his orders, but as he doesn't personally really know the king his loyalty is at this point somewhat questionable.

What do you say, may I join the team?

I'd like to represent you the Duke of Gascony, South West France. He isn't all that religious, but more like soldier, who needs a war. He seeks for glory and prestige, and some gold wouldn't do any harm neither... :rolleyes:
He comes with, should we say, 60 knights and vassals/armoured horsemen of his own and perhaps couple hundreds of men-at-arms. Gascony is formally part of the Kingdom of France, and the Duke will propably somehow follow his orders, but as he doesn't personally really know the king his loyalty is at this point somewhat questionable.

What do you say, may I join the team?
You can as you know what they say 'the more the merrier.'

You can as you know what they say 'the more the merrier.'
Agreed.

Crusaders Weapons and Armor
During the early 11th century Europe was swept with a new form of combat involving the first introduction of elite soldiers: knights. At the time circia 1000-1100 the mounted knight was armed with a long sword made of iron or steel, an axe, oval shield, and spear. Along with this, for protection, he would wear long, body covering chain mail shirts, as well as chain mail leggings. To protect his head he would often times wear a simple helm yet it was the style of some germanic and french knights to wear a helm with a metal sheet; with eye and mouth holes in it, to protect their faces. (Image (http://www.novae-militiae.com/Events/Jesse2003/PB090102.JPG)

The knights man-at-arms were more simply armed, this also depended on how weathy a night was. Often a man at arms was armed with either a short sword and longbow, or a long sword and shield, or a spear and shield. For protection they would most times wear either leather or chainmail shirts, but they were never fully armored like their lords who wore full body covered chainmail. They were also, at times, equipted with helmets or all types; some went so far as to hammer our iron cooking pots, to cover their heads. (Possible Man-at-arms (http://www.novae-militiae.com/Events/Jesse2003/PB090070.JPG))


Muslim Weapons and Armor
During this time the rise of the Turks was forth coming, with the Byzantine Empire crumbling, and their forces were anything less of different from their European counter parts. The emir's controlled land, and all men were subject to be called to arms in times of war, especially in the case of a Jihad. Because Damascus was in the hands of Muslim lords, nearly all arabic armies were able to field soldiers armed with the best of Damascus steel.

Emir's personal house soldiers
Most emir's had a personal army at all times, their house guards, and they were very similair to knights. They were armed with the best of scimitars (http://www.lucasarts.com/products/gladius/images/equipment/axes/sword_scimitar.gif), a thin curved sword that was light yet strong; they too were armed with spears, and axes. For armor they would wear light chainmail and helms, as well as light iron round shields.(Shield (http://images.picsearch.com/is?4921161288396))(Helm (http://www.turkishculture.org/images/helmet1.jpg)) These soldiers were often extremely skilled in the use of the curved composite bow, while not having the range of the longbow, it could piece crusader armor. They were also very good horsemen. (Arabic Bow (http://www.horsebows.com/bows/schememongol.gif)

(Household Guard (http://www.michtoy.com/MTSCnewSite/figures_kits_folder/Soldiers/images_folder/SoldiersImages/SP04A.jpeg))

Regular Soldiers
Regular soldiers were usually armed with nothing more than a scimitar and a round wooden shield, or a spear, or a curved bow. They rarely wore armor, often times just fighting in their regular clothes.


More to come soon....

Crusaders Weapons and Armor
During the early 11th century Europe was swept with a new form of combat involving the first introduction of elite soldiers: knights. At the time circia 1000-1100 the mounted knight was armed with a long sword made of iron or steel, an axe, oval shield, and spear. Along with this, for protection, he would wear long, body covering chain mail shirts, as well as chain mail leggings. To protect his head he would often times wear a simple helm yet it was the style of some germanic and french knights to wear a helm with a metal sheet; with eye and mouth holes in it, to protect their faces. (Image (http://www.novae-militiae.com/Events/Jesse2003/PB090102.JPG)

The knights man-at-arms were more simply armed, this also depended on how weathy a night was. Often a man at arms was armed with either a short sword and longbow, or a long sword and shield, or a spear and shield. For protection they would most times wear either leather or chainmail shirts, but they were never fully armored like their lords who wore full body covered chainmail. They were also, at times, equipted with helmets or all types; some went so far as to hammer our iron cooking pots, to cover their heads. (Possible Man-at-arms (http://www.novae-militiae.com/Events/Jesse2003/PB090070.JPG))


Muslim Weapons and Armor
During this time the rise of the Turks was forth coming, with the Byzantine Empire crumbling, and their forces were anything less of different from their European counter parts. The emir's controlled land, and all men were subject to be called to arms in times of war, especially in the case of a Jihad. Because Damascus was in the hands of Muslim lords, nearly all arabic armies were able to field soldiers armed with the best of Damascus steel.

Emir's personal house soldiers
Most emir's had a personal army at all times, their house guards, and they were very similair to knights. They were armed with the best of scimitars (http://www.lucasarts.com/products/gladius/images/equipment/axes/sword_scimitar.gif), a thin curved sword that was light yet strong; they too were armed with spears, and axes. For armor they would wear light chainmail and helms, as well as light iron round shields.(Shield (http://images.picsearch.com/is?4921161288396))(Helm (http://www.turkishculture.org/images/helmet1.jpg)) These soldiers were often extremely skilled in the use of the curved composite bow, while not having the range of the longbow, it could piece crusader armor. They were also very good horsemen. (Arabic Bow (http://www.horsebows.com/bows/schememongol.gif)

(Household Guard (http://www.michtoy.com/MTSCnewSite/figures_kits_folder/Soldiers/images_folder/SoldiersImages/SP04A.jpeg))

Regular Soldiers
Regular soldiers were usually armed with nothing more than a scimitar and a round wooden shield, or a spear, or a curved bow. They rarely wore armor, often times just fighting in their regular clothes.


More to come soon....Good and you did point a few essntial elements of armor of both the Muslism and Christian armies of that era.

Gascognyan man-at-arms of the Duke's own household:
http://www.geocities.com/ncmss/RhodesMedieval.jpg

...and one of his poorer knights (or then the nobleman has just chosen to focus his efforts on his OWN weaponry and equipment :D ):
http://www.gaddgedlar.com/images/Foot%20Soldier.jpg

Sir Pierre The Mad and behind him, mounted, Marquis of Bayonne:
http://www.schoolsliaison.org.uk/astonhall/changingtimes/themes/warfare/nknight.jpg

I know Saxony is a germanic state, but what the hell is Swabia?

Mind if I play as a Scottish Clan? I'll find a good one to be as.

Parthini']Mind if I play as a Scottish Clan? I'll find a good one to be as. Yeah, feel free to.

To Azaga
Here is a mpa depciting where Swabia is: http://history.missouristate.edu/jchuchiak/Holy%20Roman%20Empire_files/image003.jpg

Parthini']Mind if I play as a Scottish Clan? I'll find a good one to be as.
That would be damn cool! Though quite unrealistic... but think about it, highlanders charging the walls of Jerusalem in their blue body paints and claymores! Perhaps the Duke of Gascony, who has some far-away relatives in within the ranks of Scottish nobility, has hired some clanwarriors to aide in this crusade? We should RP that first though. Or would it be too much fantasy?

That would be damn cool! Though quite unrealistic... but think about it, highlanders charging the walls of Jerusalem in their blue body paints and claymores! Perhaps the Duke of Gascony, who has some far-away relatives in within the ranks of Scottish nobility, has hired some clanwarriors to aide in this crusade? We should RP that first though. Or would it be too much fantasy?Mercarniers are cool, but please hire no more then 120 of them.

The Duke of Gascony and Highlanders related...

It could work.

We'll RP that out whne this start's, I guess... Though I don't think my Dude can even afford much more than that. Have to say, I'm already eagerly waiting to get this started :p

Just say it's a Crusade and you get to kill people. Scots are very pious, but the probably didn't hear about the Crusade for a few years :p

What about like 500 Clansmen? You could have the Duke of Gascony marry the Chief of the MacDonnells...

OOC: What about both of you joining your cursading companies together?

Yeah. Ok.

Are we going to have an IC thread?

Yeah I will start one up in a hour or two.

Alright, I'll be Saxony because I know nothing of Swab-...whatever. I only know a little abnout Saxony because of Anglo-Saxon England... though I doubt that will be much.

Can anyone enleighten me real quick on Saxony? If you have any sort of info on it, please let me know..

Im not sure what you meant by joining together...? Of course the troops will march and move together as those scots fight side by side with the frenchmen, but we're still going to RP separately and all, right? We'll just closely co-operating.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saxony

So, its 1095/1096, and Urban hasn't called for the crusade yet, right? Although much of Spain was under Almoravid rule at the time, would it be acceptable to be the leader of Banu Somadih on this (http://ccat.sas.upenn.edu/~rs143/umayyad.jpg) map (number 7 on the top map)

If it is I'll come up with information on a leader.

There something I can use!

Billungs, Dukes of Saxony in 1000-@1200 AD.

Also, Scan. How big should I be? What would be my max army size?

I think this should be BUMPed, to keep it in the first page for possible new recruits.

There something I can use!

Billungs, Dukes of Saxony in 1000-@1200 AD.

Also, Scan. How big should I be? What would be my max army size?OOC: Your guys on average wouldn't proably max more than six foot and max. army size for each lord I'm not going to put on permantely, but for Saxong I will put at about 3,200 soldiers (including the knights).

So, its 1095/1096, and Urban hasn't called for the crusade yet, right? Although much of Spain was under Almoravid rule at the time, would it be acceptable to be the leader of Banu Somadih on this (http://ccat.sas.upenn.edu/~rs143/umayyad.jpg) map (number 7 on the top map)

If it is I'll come up with information on a leader.Sure you can be that, but do not go and start raiding Spain and France.

Gascognyan man-at-arms of the Duke's own household:
http://www.geocities.com/ncmss/RhodesMedieval.jpg

...and one of his poorer knights (or then the nobleman has just chosen to focus his efforts on his OWN weaponry and equipment :D ):
http://www.gaddgedlar.com/images/Foot%20Soldier.jpg

Sir Pierre The Mad and behind him, mounted, Marquis of Bayonne:
http://www.schoolsliaison.org.uk/astonhall/changingtimes/themes/warfare/nknight.jpg


Nice pics, but I got one problem with that first one, the man-at-arms. At this time period Halberds were not in use, hell the english had not even come up with the 'Bill-hook' yet. So, just remember that while he is ok concerning armor, his weapon is out-of-bounds. The other two pics are fine, each has the proper time period weapons and armor.

WeaponsMod

[I]Nice pics, but I got one problem with that first one, the man-at-arms. At this time period Halberds were not in use, hell the english had not even come up with the 'Bill-hook' yet. So, just remember that while he is ok concerning armor, his weapon is out-of-bounds. The other two pics are fine, each has the proper time period weapons and armor.

yea, I know the pic is propably from 14th century or something, but it was jsut so stunning in the coolnes that I couldn't resist... :rolleyes:

bump

As said.

Bumperoo!

Hi!

Is there any options to still join the game? I'm a medieval re-enactor from Europe and i know a lot of those times, and i simply love them....

So....can i join in?

Hell ya! (Though im not the boss here :rolleyes: ...) But we need new people I'd say. Who you wanna be?

Lets BUMP it again to see if anything happens.

ooc. Is something Scottish open? English is also good :p

bump!

OOC: How large of a force would I have?

I'd guess something like mine, perhaps a bit bigger. Like thousand men-at-arms and somewhere around a hundred armoured cavalry? How does that sound, others?

Who is he rp'ing as? Then I can give you the right number of men he has.

Am I in?

.....
Participants of the Crusade:
The Duke of Normandy: The Scandinvans
Baron of Brittany: Deatharon
Duke of Gascony: Madnestan
Azaha: Dukes of Saxony
.....


There you can see what's taken. This is Scaninvans' RP so he decides who's in. But can't see any reason why you wouldn't. Getting this started has taken pretty long already, so I vote for taking every non-n00b candidat we get :rolleyes:

Wales was independant at that time and divided in several kingdoms. Can I claim one of them?

If yes: Gwynned, ruler Gruffydd ap Cynan...

I don't think that would be a problem Warta, but I'll leave that for Scandinvans to decide.

OOC: How large of a force would I have?

Dreatheron, since your the baron of Brittany, your forces would include a force of some 120 knights, and around 800-900 men-at-arms.


Also, Note to Everyone
I am planning to post, if Scandivans allows, a list of mercenary companies and troops that you can pay to fight for you, however, you will only have a limited amount of gold, and tha Scan will decide that. If he allows it, I will give the lists 2moro. G2g, seeya.

Is the Emir of Cyrencia alright with you?

Well, yes. The probelm is, I'm not sure where Cyrencia is.

Another thing, Scand should also add Parthini's Highlander-crusaders to the members list. For Duke's behalf I can only say that there's more than enough hired power for one army. Actually, our knight's and brave peasant troopers together with the raging clansmen are enough for one crusade. We'll take the godamn' HC alone!

Well, yes. The probelm is, I'm not sure where Cyrencia is.
Cyrenaica, or however you wish to spell it (Gascony, Gasgony, Casgogne, Gasgonya :rolleyes: ) is this: http://www.unrv.com/provinces/cyrenaica.php ,
nowadays there's Libya in the place. Capital is Tripoli.

Yeah! Can't forget Mungo MacDonnell and his band of 300 Clansmen! (300 shouldn't be too much for a clan. It might actually be too small!)

And remember, I'm just following Gascony for the fun of it. No gold. Figure, Mungo is Gascony's second Cousin or something fun like that.

Are you taking the whole clan with you? I thought you'd be taking, like, the volunteers or sumthin... Though I persume they ALL volunteered, no surprise as they're the Scots we're talking about. I was just having this idea... We all know that the Crusaders founded couple of semi-independant kingdoms, dukedoms and such in the Middle East after the succes right? Like Tripoli (nothing to do with Cyrenaica, Nistolonia!) and Akkon and what were they. Anyways, WHAT IF
The MacDonnel clan, I mean the WHOLE clan, pakced their stuff and was shipped to France, where the Gasconyan's (Or a big bunch of them at least, including all of the families of the knights and soldiers) do the same, they come with the army as it marches or atleast follows pretty close behind....?

A long term plan....

The Holy Kingdom of Donnalia...

The Sacred Duchy of Gascon...

MWAHAHHAHAA!

Cyrenaica, or however you wish to spell it (Gascony, Gasgony, Casgogne, Gasgonya :rolleyes: ) is this: http://www.unrv.com/provinces/cyrenaica.php ,
nowadays there's Libya in the place. Capital is Tripoli.
Yeap that is right.

Are you taking the whole clan with you? I thought you'd be taking, like, the volunteers or sumthin... Though I persume they ALL volunteered, no surprise as they're the Scots we're talking about. I was just having this idea... We all know that the Crusaders founded couple of semi-independant kingdoms, dukedoms and such in the Middle East after the succes right? Like Tripoli (nothing to do with Cyrenaica, Nistolonia!) and Akkon and what were they. Anyways, WHAT IF
The MacDonnel clan, I mean the WHOLE clan, pakced their stuff and was shipped to France, where the Gasconyan's (Or a big bunch of them at least, including all of the families of the knights and soldiers) do the same, they come with the army as it marches or atleast follows pretty close behind....?

A long term plan....

The Holy Kingdom of Donnalia...

The Sacred Duchy of Gascon...

MWAHAHHAHAA!The long term plan is that we found a few kingdoms and principlaity's in the far east. Also the reason that I havwn't started the main IC thread is due to the fact that there are to few Muslim leaders to fight against.

That's a great idea!

I could have it that one of the other clans push me out, so I have no where to go but Gascony! Then, we ALL go! w00t

Hi!

Is there any options to still join the game? I'm a medieval re-enactor from Europe and i know a lot of those times, and i simply love them....

So....can i join in?Yeap you can join.

Parthini']That's a great idea!

I could have it that one of the other clans push me out, so I have no where to go but Gascony! Then, we ALL go! w00t

We'll whack the shit out of the evil brown people and bacome saints, while having our own states in a warmer continent and a nice castles to spend in our old days :fluffle:

Ok, i'm in as the Emir of Cyrenaica. The only Muslim nation...

ooc. Is something Scottish open? English is also good :pYeah you are in you can be the guard of Warden of Nothern Marches along the Scottish border so you can have both Scottish and English warriors.

Ok, i'm in as the Emir of Cyrenaica. The only Muslim nation...Okay you have been put on the list.

Yeah you are in you can be the guard of Warden of Nothern Marches along the Scottish border so you can have both Scottish and English warriors.

That's ok with me. Can we only RP things with the Crusades, or can we RP other stuff too, like Invading and conquering Scotland ;)

Thank you for letting me join!

I would be Count of Carniolia wich is Slovenia today, and Slovenia is were i live...In 1147 Count Bernard joined the second crusade with a few hundred soliders so this would be quite historicly corect...

Norhern Marches, does that mean Northumberland and Cumbria (if you look at a modernday map)?

IMO We should try to keep this in the first page for new recruits, that's why this BUMPenetration.

Norhern Marches, does that mean Northumberland and Cumbria (if you look at a modernday map)? Yeah except it is a fairly long and wide peice of land, but only composes the former frontier regions of northern England and quite a few parts of the lowlands of Scotland.

Why isn't Parthini in the list of participators?

I don't think that would be a problem Warta, but I'll leave that for Scandinvans to decide.



Dreatheron, since your the baron of Brittany, your forces would include a force of some 120 knights, and around 800-900 men-at-arms.


Also, Note to Everyone
I am planning to post, if Scandivans allows, a list of mercenary companies and troops that you can pay to fight for you, however, you will only have a limited amount of gold, and tha Scan will decide that. If he allows it, I will give the lists 2moro. G2g, seeya.. Also feel free to make the post Trashia.

Christian Lords:
Fief Holder: 9,000 Gold Coins
Chieftain: 12,000 Gold Coins
Baron: 18,000 Gold Coins
Count: 21,000 Gold Coins
Earl: 24,000 Gold Coins
Duke: 30,000 Gold Coins

Muslim Leaders:
Genral: 16,000 Gold Coins
Merchant-Genral: 19,000 Gold Coins
Governor: 20,000 Gold Coins
Emir: 24,000 Gold Coins

And up it goes!

OOC: Alright Scand, I will have the mercenaries up in a quick second. The mercs can be hired by anyone, though, just note that there are mercenaries from several nations and ethnic backgrounds, so just make sure you don't hire someone that you know is going to rub your troops the wrong way. Got it? So non of your christians are going to hire a group of Muslims. Just don't happen.

Weapons Mod

OOC: Alright Scand, I will have the mercenaries up in a quick second. The mercs can be hired by anyone, though, just note that there are mercenaries from several nations and ethnic backgrounds, so just make sure you don't hire someone that you know is going to rub your troops the wrong way. Got it? So non of your christians are going to hire a group of Muslims. Just don't happen.

Weapons ModYeaht that is correct save maybe when the Crusader states are formed, but that is the rule for now at last. Also thanks for the work you are doing on the mercs.

Same amount of money to everybody? That's fair, yeah, but somewhat, well, totally, unrealistic? The Scots can hire as many troops as the King of France?

OOC: No problem Scand, and I will go over each person's background and reasign amounts of gold if you like?

I'd vote for "yes".

Mercenary Groups

Christian Mercenaries

Cretan Archers
Men: 250
Cost: 500 gold
Conditions: Each archer must be paid 2 gold every three months
Commander: Philus Datium, Captain / Crete
Weapons/Armor: Crete Long Bows (range: 150m), short swords, leather or hide armor
Other facts: These archers are some of the best in the Mediterranean world, do not use them for granted. They are strong and well trained, however they are able to be broken in combat if they are out flanked.


Felix Spearmen
Men: 400
Cost: 1200 gold
Conditions: Paid three gold every 4 months
Commander: Artur Manias, Captain / Macedonian
Weapons/Armor: Pike (12 ft), chain mail-leather mix, short swords and long swords
Other Facts: Tough and hardened soldiers these men have fought under the Byzantine armies as well as the Emir’s, trust them to hold a line, but not if it against fellow Greeks.\

Genoa Free Mans Company
Men: 1100
Cost: 11,000 gold
Conditions: Each must be paid 10 gold on the outset of being hired, and after 5 months you must pay those who are alive, 5 gold.
Commander: Andrea Piero, Captain / Italian
Weapons/Armor: Staves, Spears, Swords, axes, knives, chain mail-leather-scale-padded armor mix
Other Facts: Not a very well trained force, the Free Mans Company is a hardy group that was once formed by a nobleman of Genoa then when they were ordered to disband and not paid, they killed the nobleman and all his money. They are not conventional troops, use them with care.

Langer Schwertmanns
Men: 200
Cost: 15,000 gold
Conditions: Each must be paid 50 gold upon hiring, and another 25 when released from service or after 6 months
Commander: Alexander Pankraz, Captain / Germanic Kingdoms
Weapons/Armor: Great Swords (4-5ft), full chain mail body armor
Other Facts: Extremely strong and well disciplined, these Germanic warriors will fight until the death as so long as they are paid and well fed. They are all tall and strong men and each is skilled in the two handed great sword that signifies their company’s name. They also have a strong hatred of drunken Italians, and are quick to anger if insulted.
(Translation Note: Langer Schwertmanns - Long Swordsmen)

Calvaire léger
Men: 350, 400 horses
Cost: 16,000 gold
Conditions: Each has a horse and himself to take care of, you will pay each 45 gold and 2 silver pieces upon hiring them.
Commander: Tristram Fouinon, Captain / French
Weapons/Armor: Long Spears, swords, knives, full body chain mail, oval helms
Other Facts: A group of well trained horsemen, they are good for holding flanks and scouting, but beware of putting them up against heavily armored troops or enemy cavalry.
(Translation Note: Calvaire léger – Light Calvary)


Muslim Mercenaries

Cretan Archers
Men: 250
Cost: 500 gold
Conditions: Each archer must be paid 2 gold every three months
Commander: Philus Datium, Captain / Crete
Weapons/Armor: Crete Long Bows (range: 150m), short swords, leather or hide armor
Other facts: These archers are some of the best in the Mediterranean world, do not use them for granted. They are strong and well trained, however they are able to be broken in combat if they are out flanked.

Persian Spearmen
Men: 600
Cost: 1,200 gold
Conditions: Pay two gold upon hiring, and two gold every 4 months
Commander: Abba Hajji Al-ham-a, Captain / Persian
Weapons: Spears, scimitars, wicker shields (4x2ft), no armor
Other Facts: A group of men who are tough, yet not too well trained. They are light infantry and should be treated as such, do not rely upon them too hard.



OOC: More to come. Also note that all transactions and hiring will go through me.


Weapons Mod

I feel so alone...Doesnt anyone want to play the Islamics? The ones who WON the Crusades?

If you guys wouldn't mind, I would like to take the Domain of Pisa. Is that possible?

Okay I will put you on the list.

bump

bump

Bump.

bump

bump for particpants

Someone Join Dammit!

bump

I will join, but I don't feel like reading through all 7 pages... can you sum it up for me

Christian Lords:
Fief Holder: 9,000 Gold Coins
Chieftain: 12,000 Gold Coins
Baron: 18,000 Gold Coins
Count: 21,000 Gold Coins
Earl: 24,000 Gold Coins
Duke: 30,000 Gold Coins

Muslim Leaders:
Genral: 16,000 Gold Coins
Merchant-Genral: 19,000 Gold Coins
Governor: 20,000 Gold Coins
Emir: 24,000 Gold Coins
DMG this is the only essiantal thing that you really need to know.

First page perhaps, and the coins like Scand mentioned. Rest is just bumping and new players choosing factions.
Mercenary Groups

Christian Mercenaries

Cretan Archers
Men: 250
Cost: 500 gold
Conditions: Each archer must be paid 2 gold every three months
Commander: Philus Datium, Captain / Crete
Weapons/Armor: Crete Long Bows (range: 150m), short swords, leather or hide armor
Other facts: These archers are some of the best in the Mediterranean world, do not use them for granted. They are strong and well trained, however they are able to be broken in combat if they are out flanked.


Felix Spearmen
Men: 400
Cost: 1200 gold
Conditions: Paid three gold every 4 months
Commander: Artur Manias, Captain / Macedonian
Weapons/Armor: Pike (12 ft), chain mail-leather mix, short swords and long swords
Other Facts: Tough and hardened soldiers these men have fought under the Byzantine armies as well as the Emir’s, trust them to hold a line, but not if it against fellow Greeks.\

Genoa Free Mans Company
Men: 1100
Cost: 11,000 gold
Conditions: Each must be paid 10 gold on the outset of being hired, and after 5 months you must pay those who are alive, 5 gold.
Commander: Andrea Piero, Captain / Italian
Weapons/Armor: Staves, Spears, Swords, axes, knives, chain mail-leather-scale-padded armor mix
Other Facts: Not a very well trained force, the Free Mans Company is a hardy group that was once formed by a nobleman of Genoa then when they were ordered to disband and not paid, they killed the nobleman and all his money. They are not conventional troops, use them with care.

Langer Schwertmanns
Men: 200
Cost: 15,000 gold
Conditions: Each must be paid 50 gold upon hiring, and another 25 when released from service or after 6 months
Commander: Alexander Pankraz, Captain / Germanic Kingdoms
Weapons/Armor: Great Swords (4-5ft), full chain mail body armor
Other Facts: Extremely strong and well disciplined, these Germanic warriors will fight until the death as so long as they are paid and well fed. They are all tall and strong men and each is skilled in the two handed great sword that signifies their company’s name. They also have a strong hatred of drunken Italians, and are quick to anger if insulted.
(Translation Note: Langer Schwertmanns - Long Swordsmen)

Calvaire léger
Men: 350, 400 horses
Cost: 16,000 gold
Conditions: Each has a horse and himself to take care of, you will pay each 45 gold and 2 silver pieces upon hiring them.
Commander: Tristram Fouinon, Captain / French
Weapons/Armor: Long Spears, swords, knives, full body chain mail, oval helms
Other Facts: A group of well trained horsemen, they are good for holding flanks and scouting, but beware of putting them up against heavily armored troops or enemy cavalry.
(Translation Note: Calvaire léger – Light Calvary)


Muslim Mercenaries

Cretan Archers
Men: 250
Cost: 500 gold
Conditions: Each archer must be paid 2 gold every three months
Commander: Philus Datium, Captain / Crete
Weapons/Armor: Crete Long Bows (range: 150m), short swords, leather or hide armor
Other facts: These archers are some of the best in the Mediterranean world, do not use them for granted. They are strong and well trained, however they are able to be broken in combat if they are out flanked.

Persian Spearmen
Men: 600
Cost: 1,200 gold
Conditions: Pay two gold upon hiring, and two gold every 4 months
Commander: Abba Hajji Al-ham-a, Captain / Persian
Weapons: Spears, scimitars, wicker shields (4x2ft), no armor
Other Facts: A group of men who are tough, yet not too well trained. They are light infantry and should be treated as such, do not rely upon them too hard.



OOC: More to come. Also note that all transactions and hiring will go through me.


Weapons Mod

well thats all good information, but what I really need to know is how it is going to work and what faction can I be

A question: can we only take mercenaries or other units that were in our region at that time in real history?

Also, when do we strat?

well thats all good information, but what I really need to know is how it is going to work and what faction can I beWell the factions are just basically the areas ruled over by a lord, but not by a monarch and also all Christian factions are closed due to the fact of their not being enough Musliam lords. I would advise becoming somwhere along the lines of Emir of Damascus or Emire of Alexandria.

Wolf, concerning what you said, you have already a force of men in your original land. You can make a conscription, but that would weaken your homeland. Mercs are there to augument your orignal force by adding to it a battlehardened group of soldiers.

I will be Emir of Alexandria (I assume this is the one in Egypt?)

Well the factions are just basically the areas ruled over by a lord, but not by a monarch and also all Christian factions are closed due to the fact of their not being enough Musliam lords. I would advise becoming somwhere along the lines of Emir of Damascus or Emire of Alexandria.

I just realized, don't we, for the sake of realism and even the the playability, need kings and such? The king of France is quite vital for a mission like this, also the King of England and the Whatever the Saladin was. To lead the army and such? Or is this going to be just a group of independent small nobles?

The realism suffers greatly from that.

I will be Emir of Alexandria (I assume this is the one in Egypt?)Yeap, it is in Egypt.

I just realized, don't we, for the sake of realism and even the the playability, need kings and such? The king of France is quite vital for a mission like this, also the King of England and the Whatever the Saladin was. To lead the army and such? Or is this going to be just a group of independent small nobles?

The realism suffers greatly from that.No kings of Europe particapted directly in the First Crusade.

WTH? Really? Ok, my bad then... *retires to his chamber to re-study the history courses from the 9th grade*

I will start the offical IC thread by 1:00 A.M. NS time.

You men GMT?

So 8:00 ET (USA)

It has officaly started.

So that means no more signups?

So that means no more signups?

I think if you signed up as a muslim leader it would still be ok as nothing has happened yet.

I'd love to sign up as the Vizier al-Musta'li, Governor of Jerusalem, but I await the Scandinavians before actually trying to begin such an RP.

I'd love to sign up as the Vizier al-Musta'li, Governor of Jerusalem, but I await the Scandinavians before actually trying to begin such an RP.No offense I will put you at as the Vizer, but I ask you to be the Vizer or Emir of Damacus as I plan to take Jerusalem. but if that is your wish I will put you as the Vizer.

I'll take whatever position you want me in. I was going to ask to be the Governor of Acre, but I couldn't find what his name was, so I opted for a more well known Moslem leader. Governor of Damascus sounds alright, though. Thanks.

EDIT: That would make my name Abu Nasr Shams al-Muluk Duqaq, or just Governor al-Muluk Duqaq of Damascus.

Thank you for joining the thread and not be picking. Also I noticed that you seem to be well versed in Moslem history which I must applaud you on.

OOC: I will put you on the IC thread tommorrow becuase now I newd to go to sleep.

Thanks ^_^; anyways, I need some sleep too. Plus I've got to think of how the hell I'm going to play the Governor of Damascus during the First Crusade. Probably going to have to go and ambush some Germans, just like in reality.

Oh, and I have a question. Moslem armies are terribly outnumbered in this RP since there are very few Moslem factions. In reality, this was not the case. In fact, the people of Damascus fought the Crusaders with the help of the Governor of Jerusalem (played by you?) and the Vizer of Mosul (that's Iraq). Without help from both of those leaders, Damascus would have stood no chance against the Crusaders and probably would have allied itself with the European armies. What I'm getting at is that, being outnumbered heavily, Moslem players may want to play as multiple small kingdoms in order to make a more realistic RP experience. Just a thought though. I submit to your judgment on the issue.

I would agree with that, but I will leave it to him to decide.

Weapons Mod

OOC: This looks kind of interesting, I dont have much time but I'd like to put some into this. I know a bunch about like European tactics and weapons, but not Muslim, so it looks like I'll have to be muslim and so the weapons mod may need to coach me on weapons a bit.

Can somebody please post a link to the IC thread....Thanks!

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=450088
(sorry Scand, hadn't find time yet but soon will!)

I would agree with that, but I will leave it to him to decide.

Weapons ModAcautlly the thing I was hopign for by closing the thread to new Crusader entries was that more would join as Islamic leaders, but that hope is not going very well and also since it has been to long for the other who sigend up earlier so I decided that the thread IC thread must be started, but yet Moslem nations may still join.

Got a question or two.

1) Is our army entirely mercs? Or are they additional and we have a base army...

2) How do we get more gold?

3) What is the rate of time we are using? And how long will IC events, like traveling from Normandy to Jerusalem take IC and RL?

Answered:
1. The armies orgianlly are your base army and you can hire mers when you begin your march.
2.You get more gold by taking the settlements in the Holy Land or by taking settlements of the other faith.
3.Game rate is every real day is four months. Also to march to the Holy Land from Normandy will proably take between three and six months. By sea it will take about, including getting to the port that takes you to the Holy Land, two to three months.

OOC: This looks kind of interesting, I dont have much time but I'd like to put some into this. I know a bunch about like European tactics and weapons, but not Muslim, so it looks like I'll have to be muslim and so the weapons mod may need to coach me on weapons a bit.What Muslim faction are you?

Answered:
1. The armies orgianlly are your base army and you can hire mers when you begin your march.
2.You get more gold by taking the settlements in the Holy Land or by taking settlements of the other faith.
3.Game rate is every real day is four months. Also to march to the Holy Land from Normandy will proably take between three and six months. By sea it will take about, including getting to the port that takes you to the Holy Land, two to three months.

Requestions
1. So what is your base army then?
2. Shouldn't there be a list of settlements then?
3. That is fast - gold is fleeting.

From the beaches of the English channel to Israel in three months? :eek:
That's what they call a "forced march".

If by ''forced march'' you mean running 24/7 in full equiptemnt then i agree... :rolleyes:

Requestions
1. So what is your base army then?
2. Shouldn't there be a list of settlements then?
3. That is fast - gold is fleeting.


Answers
1) Your base army is made up of the troops your faction leader is capable of fielding. If I am the king of france then I should be able to field a few thousand men-at-arms and several hundred knights.
2) I will come up with an accurate world map with settlements and castles listed.
3) While you start with this gold, I will be making another section added to that where your homeland provides you with an income taxes. Meaning that even if you spend quite a lot on mercs and the like, you will be able to replenish your coffers from taxes and conquest.

Weapons Mod

From the beaches of the English channel to Israel in three months? :eek:
That's what they call a "forced march".

According to my research most crusader armies marched for over a year before reaching Constantinople, but since its a pain in the ass to rp that long a period of time, I would say that if you rp one day mobilizing and the heading off, then rp landing in France, then it should take you between 3-4 rl days before you reach Constantinople. Then I will rp with you on your journery accross Turkey to the Holy Land. :D (evil smile) Cuz there are crazy tribesmen that attacked the Crusaders all the time when they marched through the deserts.

Weapons Mod

According to my research most crusader armies marched for over a year before reaching Constantinople, but since its a pain in the ass to rp that long a period of time, I would say that if you rp one day mobilizing and the heading off, then rp landing in France, then it should take you between 3-4 rl days before you reach Constantinople. Then I will rp with you on your journery accross Turkey to the Holy Land. :D (evil smile) Cuz there are crazy tribesmen that attacked the Crusaders all the time when they marched through the deserts.

Weapons Mod:p Good job and also thank you for getting started on a map.

Addresed Wolfenbach & Madnestan:
While the route to the Holy Land was a fairly long journey taking between eight to twelve months. But, the journey by sea was far quicker taking a period about a third of the time it tokm to reach the Holy Land. Also it is a far quicker march to Nomrandy to Northern Itatly then it is to the Holy Land.

No problem. heres A map, but I am working on a better one, since I think this one is in French...

Its just to give you a general idea of the paths and cities along the way.

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b184/Upum/untitled2.jpg

I still have this one question in my mind that I cannot get rid of...
Even if none of the kings took part in the First Crusade, we still need someone to lead this whole thing! I mean, it wasn't like the european nobles just packed their stuff and started to march, like we did? What would be the most realistic and playable way if there's no king?

I still have this one question in my mind that I cannot get rid of...
Who plays the King of France? Who is the Holy Empire? King of England? Don't you think we need atleast one of those three to make things go smoothly and to preserve the taste of realism?

This is quite true, we do need another three players. As the King of France, the Holy Roman Empire, and King of England, a player would be able to field an army in the thousands of men-at-arms and hudreds of knights. As well as recieve a wealthy pay check. I would recommend another three players joining, and then I will give them a run-down of the information they need to begin. I will leave it to Scand to work out the details of getting another three players.

Weapons Mod

What Muslim faction are you?

I dunno. I'd be more interested in being the Emperor of the Holy Roman Empire (No, I wouldn't drown so you could count on my help) or king of Britian.

I am still slightly confused about whether your army is all mercs or not... If not, do you not have to pay for your army? Or are men at arms not mercs and then I could recruit archers and pikeman?

Please try to straighten this out for me so that I can post.

I am still slightly confused about whether your army is all mercs or not... If not, do you not have to pay for your army? Or are men at arms not mercs and then I could recruit archers and pikeman?

Please try to straighten this out for me so that I can post.

*clears throat* Ok, feudalism is what governed at this time period. Your standing army is made of men who live on your lands, who grow crops and pay taxes to you for protection and for the land they live on. As their lord, you have the right to call them to arms should the need arise.

All you need to do is feed them, and pay them small amounts of copper or in increases of land (not big, more like an extra acre or half that for a man-at-arms). Once you have called all your men togethor, you break open your armoury where most lords kept large amounts of bows, spears, swords, etc. to arm their soldiers.

The Mercs fight only for money, and you must hire them, they are not part of your original force; they supply their own weapons and fight under their own colors and captains, but they are loyal to you since you paid for their services.

Hopefully this explains it a little better(?).

Weapons Mod

Not really... I already knew what Feudalism was... What I am trying to figure out is how many men I can call up and whether or not they would be good fighters

C'mon man! That's where the RP comes in! You use your imagination and some historical realism to say what is your army's size. I, for example, just remembered that the number of knights in the biggest battle of crusades, battle of Hattin, was around 1500. Then I though that I play a rather minor noble, so there must be less than 100 knights in the dukedom. 700 men-at-arms sounded somewhat realistic. It's not harder than that, really :p .

And the level of training, well, what do you think it should be? This is not a computer game but a freeform RP! Up to you!

I dunno. I'd be more interested in being the Emperor of the Holy Roman Empire (No, I wouldn't drown so you could count on my help) or king of Britian.Okay if you want to be a king so much you can be king of Poland, Hungary, Aragon, Castile, or the Holy Roman Emperor. But, you are the only one King of Europe that I am going to allow until I change my mind on the matter. To make that clear Borman Empire is the only one allowed to play a monarch until the Crusader states are founded where then I will allow for kings to rule over them, but those will be the only monarchs save the Borman Empire I am going to allow. Do you get catch that?

Yes, sir!

C'mon man! That's where the RP comes in! You use your imagination and some historical realism to say what is your army's size. I, for example, just remembered that the number of knights in the biggest battle of crusades, battle of Hattin, was around 1500. Then I though that I play a rather minor noble, so there must be less than 100 knights in the dukedom. 700 men-at-arms sounded somewhat realistic. It's not harder than that, really :p .

And the level of training, well, what do you think it should be? This is not a computer game but a freeform RP! Up to you!

I am quite busy with around 10-12 RPs currently... IC post coming (very basic)

I am quite busy with around 10-12 RPs currently... IC post coming (very basic)

Understandable. And sorry for the arrogant attitude in that one... :rolleyes: Shouldn't come to preach to someone more experienced than I am like that.

Okay if you want to be a king so much you can be king of Poland, Hungary, Aragon, Castile, or the Holy Roman Emperor. But, you are the only one King of Europe that I am going to allow until I change my mind on the matter. To make that clear Borman Empire is the only one allowed to play a monarch until the Crusader states are founded where then I will allow for kings to rule over them, but those will be the only monarchs save the Borman Empire I am going to allow. Do you get catch that?

YESSIR! *Salutes*

And I've actually managed to secure alot of free time so I may even be able to get a post in by today.

Okay Borman you are the Holy Roman Empire right?

Okay Borman you are the Holy Roman Empire right?

Correct

This is in reference to Borman Empire's IC OOC post...

I believe that the crusades were mainly against the muslims, not jews, as the muslims were a powerful soceity and had taken control of the holy lands...

The Crusades were ALL aginst muslims and pegans...

And YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT FEUDALISM WAS? :eek:

C'mon man! That is basic! :mad:

Who was that directed to...

The Crusades were ALL aginst muslims and pegans...

And YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT FEUDALISM WAS? :eek:

C'mon man! That is basic! :mad:

Everybody knows what feudalism was, none has claimed otherwise. Read more carefully.

While the Crusades were directed at the Muslims and Pagans, the Fourth sacked Constantinople and, because crusades were so expensive, and because the Jewish bankers had all the money because the Pope banned lending money with interest until the 1280s I believe, before every crusade, there was a "fund raiser" also known as Looting Jews.

This is in reference to Borman Empire's IC OOC post...

I believe that the crusades were mainly against the muslims, not jews, as the muslims were a powerful soceity and had taken control of the holy lands...

Jews have never been liked. Seriously, its only recently (like post WWII) that society and the world (Except muslims who hate them and isreal) has begun to accept them. All throughout time they were persecuted, and looted, etc. At one point they were banned from multiple continents including Europe, North America, South America, and parts of Asia and Africa. But in the first Crusade the Germans/Holy Roman Empire just largely sent men around Europe, mainly HRE, to kill jews. This wasn't government sanctioned, but it happened. Count Emicho led about 10,000 soldiers, men, women, and children on campaigns slaughtering thousands of jews. And others did the same.

And [NS] parthini is right about Constantinople. But people didn't quite like Byzantium. Byzantium made them swear fealty and promise to return any gained territory to Byzantium, but Byzantium didnt trust them and even secretly negotiated for return of a Byzantium city that crusaders were seigeing (Sp?) and then didn't let them in when they got it. They then felt that released them from their obligation as Byzantium had broken their side of the deal and so kept land for themselves.

Everybody knows what feudalism was, none has claimed otherwise. Read more carefully.

Sorry man, my mistake, i apoligise!

I realy need to read posts, not just fly over them...

Borman, your seal is taking up a lot of room on each page... would you mind scaling it down or not using it?

Borman, your seal is taking up a lot of room on each page... would you mind scaling it down or not using it?

Yeah, I tired to, Im going to again.

Borman, your seal is taking up a lot of room on each page... would you mind scaling it down or not using it?

Better?

yeh

yeh

Good

Guys, this is the silliest crusade I have ever heard about... A duke and a baron going alone in to the middle of enemy territory, whilst others haven't made it further than the half way? If the crusades were executed like this in the Real World, individual nobles leading their tiny groups of armed men to get eaten and swallowed (even without any real biting) one after another... :rolleyes:

Guys, this is the silliest crusade I have ever heard about... A duke and a baron going alone in to the middle of enemy territory, whilst others haven't made it further than the half way? If the crusades were executed like this in the Real World, individual nobles leading their tiny groups of armed men to get eaten and swallowed (even without any real biting) one after another... :rolleyes:

There's been worst military things in history. How about the russian front in WWI? Comparing it to the crusades, its like the crusaders went into different areas at the same time, came to help eachother's armies after they were defeated, and gave the Muslims copies of their plans and information.

You mean that there has been worse things than this, right? Well, that might be true... But even the Russians didn't split their army and send it regiment by regiment, with only order beeing "go to Berlin and keep positions there"!!!

This crusade is silly, period.

You mean that there has been worse things than this, right? Well, that might be true... But even the Russians didn't split their army and send it regiment by regiment, with only order beeing "go to Berlin and keep positions there"!!!

This crusade is silly, period.

Agreed. I haven't really enjoyed this RP... I am going to be pulling out of it.

Well, I wouldn't go that far just yet. The actual warfare haven't started, so obviously you hadn't have that much to do this far. I was talking only about the strategy of which we are using in IC.

I know what you were talkign about... but this RP has been slow and quite boring for me.

Yea, well, I still hope that when the actual fighting starts (assuming that it will not be executed in such an übersilly manner) there will be some rather nice medieval warfare. I'd suggest that you wait to see how that turns out, before leaving for good.

You mean that there has been worse things than this, right? Well, that might be true... But even the Russians didn't split their army and send it regiment by regiment, with only order beeing "go to Berlin and keep positions there"!!!

This crusade is silly, period.

Yes, there has been worse, they sent in two Russian armies to create a pincer movment on German forces. But one side moved in quickly, had a bit of a victory and stopped. And then other one came in, got completely eradicated (Literally like whole division were slaughtered), and then the Germans turned on and smashed the other pincer. Not to mention the russians had about 1 gun for like every 2 or 3 people, most of them had eaten for abotu 4 days becuase there supplies were so horribly organized, they were sending uncoded messages wirlessly (Allowing easy German hacking), and the commanders of the armies hated eachother.

And has Scandinvan or Detharon gone to the holy land yet? I don't think they have. And silly is really a bad description of this.

That Tannenberg-parable isn't really working here... In there, well lead army won larger but pathetically lead horde. It doesn't have too much to do with the current situation.

Those two armies aren't exactly in Holy land but much further than the rest of us. Their actual location has actually remained uncertain to me... I just thought we were to meet in Venice but found out they were already far ahead.

Silly is exactly what this is.

That Tannenberg-parable isn't really working here... In there, well lead army won larger but pathetically lead horde. It doesn't have too much to do with the current situation.

Those two armies aren't exactly in Holy land but much further than the rest of us. Their actual location has actually remained uncertain to me... I just thought we were to meet in Venice but found out they were already far ahead.

Silly is exactly what this is.

I'm more trying to say that there have been worse things then how this crusade is going ICly so far.

Hmmm, maybe we should have us all sail to Constantinople, us from Venice, them from where they are.

No, just because crusaders organization has gone poorly IC so far doesn't make it silly.

"Going poorly" is, in my personal dictionary, pretty close to "silly" :)

"Going poorly" is, in my personal dictionary, pretty close to "silly" :)

(A note, not trying to flamebate or insult or anything, just a bit of a joke)

In my dictionary, running around in circles sticking your tongue out and singing songs is silly. A poorly organized crusade, is just that; A poorly organized crusade.

Well, doing something as serious as Crusade and organizing it poorly as this here is IMO atleast as silly as running around tongue out, singing.

Well, doing something as serious as Crusade and organizing it poorly as this here is IMO atleast as silly as running around tongue out, singing.

Nah, not silly, bad organization or leadership. And no one's reached the holy land yet, I thought we were all moving to a place where we could talk about planning it and all. I thought Scandinvans and derathon (sp?) were at your meeting thing.

Seems they aren't. If I got it right, they're somewhere in the Anatolia... :S Too tired to go the thread through now though.