NationStates Jolt Archive

The Chancellor sat at his regular chair on an end of the round, finely polished redwood table, awaiting the world leaders. He was early, but already impatient and eager to meet to the first statesmen.

The Supreme Ruler of DMG arrived with Mar'ki Ticron (CEO of DMG Military Industries) and an assortment of aides flanking him. With many issues on his mind he quietly walked over to his seat and sat down...

The tall, thin frame of Kenix Kil, Secretary of State of the Democratic Imperium of Halberdgardia, appeared in the doorway, with two Secret Service agents flanking him. The agents stopped short at the doorway, as per the wishes of their hosts.

Kil's face was slightly gaunt, as he had gotten little sleep the night before, up late with endless backlogs of diplomatic issues and having to write a letter of condolence to Tannenmille's interim leader, after the assassination of Sovereign Arbiter Peffe Tannen, who had attended the first Portshire Convention. He should be here right now, Kil thought bitterly, but some bastard had to go and take his life.

Kil sat in the same seat as at the first conference, and, avoiding eye contact with the other delegates, he again took the glass of water in front of him and sipped at it pensively, waiting for the meeting to start.

The Chancellor stood up. "Welcome, I hope your arrival was safe and comfortible. Is there anything our House Cooks could make for you three?"

An aide stood up next to the Supreme Ruler and said, "Our arrival was indeed safe and very comfortable. The Supreme Ruler here will have the chef's decision, thank you."

Kil looked up from his glass of water.

"My arrival was indeed successful, Mr. Chancellor," Kil said with a slight grin, "as you no doubt perceived from my presence here."

He was about to turn down the offer of food, but suddenly, a pang of hunger hit him. He hadn't eaten recently, and he discovered he was ravenous.

"As for your offer of refreshments, I would like to have the chef's special, thank you."

In the middle of the conversation, the President and Minister for Trade and Foreign Connections of LA Ice walked in, nearly dripping wet.

"Apologies for being late," said the President, Valentin Vasquez, "we had limousine troubles, and the weather was just not suited to a Cadilac."

The two sat down as quietly as 2 pairs of squaky wet shoes could, where each were kindly given a towel and a comb.

"Thankyou very much sir. We will leave our decision on refreshments up to the Chef. But 2 glasses of Coke as well thanks," said Vince Emerson, the Minister for Trade and Foreign Connections.

The skinny 5'7" bald man, with long eyebrows and a thin beard, wearing an outfit made primarily of black silk, known as Emperor Fat Monkey 13 of Potty 5 walked in.

In front of him were 2 guards in gray wool suits with matching fedoras. Two more were behind him. To his left was a young beautiful woman with long black hair in an outfit made of the same silk as the Emperor’s. To his right was a portly balding man in a very dark gray silk outfit.

The emperor grinned and said. “If you do not know… I am Emperor Fat Monkey 13… this is Xi Shi, my concubine… this is Zach Cereis, heady of my military's R&D…” The party continued to their seats but remained standing.

Then 19 men dressed in wool suits with fedoras entered. They were carrying a couch, chairs, and two crates. The couch was put down behind the Potty 5 chairs at the table where Emperor and his young concubine sat on it. Cereis sat at the table, with an empty seat to either side, where the yet to arrive Potty 5ien advisors would sit. Next to the 7 chairs were placed where first 4 guards sat as well as 3 of the others who had not carried anything.

The 16 standing guards started to open the crates, taking out some porcelain bottles. They then brought 1 bottle from each of the crates to where Zach was seated, and went to offer one bottles from each crate to the Kil, the Chancellor, Vasquez, and DMG.

The emperor said “cups…” And the guards not busy walking around the large table with the bottles when and emptied on of the crates placing the remaining 20 bottles neatly on the floor. They then pulled out another box, carried it over to the Emperor, who opened the lid and took out 6 small cups. He then handed two to Cereis, two to Xi Shi, and said to the guard standing there holding the box of cups “How will they drink the wine if they do not have cups, glancing over to the other member who have arrived”

The emperor then turned to the table and said “In the bottle with the large character composed of three vertical lines is rice wine, the other is potato wine… These are drinks of my people… I hope you enjoy… My other two advisors had issues to attend too and will arrive later.”

The Emperor then tapped Ceries on the shoulder, held up one of his cups, and Ceries filled it with potato wine. The emperor then drank down the clear liquid in one gulp, and reached into one of his sleeves and pulled out a pair of eye-glasses that he then put on.

Her Glorious Holy (blah blah blah) Majesty the Queen Xaia Hawk enters the room with her aides and sits down. 3 of her aides open a large jeweled box containing vials of orange and watermelon juice and offer them to the other delegets.

Ellias Aubec strides into the room, his advisors following. After a quick look around, he goes and seats himself next to the Chancellor, and begins to talk to him about various small matters.

Prime Minister Neo was regarded in his country as a hardworking, intelligent man with a lovely personality by those that knew him personally and in public appearances. But he had a secret: Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder. What made him work that way was a couple tablets of Concerta - since he was a teenager.

Recently, he had come under even more stress thanks to the fact that the Federation of Joint Conglomerates blew up an unarmed plane filled with independent civilian investigators - including a national hero and good personal friend - Dr. Felix Dae-Jung Wang. He, along with Deputy Prime Minister Henley Leong, arrived by an airplane designed for diplomats: the Prime Executive Wing had not been finished yet.

The limousine convoy rolled toward the front of the Chancellor's mansion. The first and last car, had a four bodyguards armed with Desert Eagles. They would wait outside, as the Chancellor had requested. Two Truitti guards opened the door for them.

"Thank you very much." the Southeastasian politicians answered.

"You're too kind." they in turn answered.

They marched down into the meeting room, where the leaders (or representatives) of their respective countries were waiting.

"Welcome Mr. Neo, welcome Mr. Leong!" the Chancellor greeted warmly, shaking with both hands.

"It's a pleasure to meet a man like yourself." said DPM Leong

"Likewise." Neo agreed.

He turned around to see the Supreme Ruler of DMG and the CEO of DMI sitting attentively at the table. The Supreme Ruler was eating the chef's delicious food.

"Pleased to meet you," he rushed towards them, his right arm stretched to shake the Supreme Ruler's hand, then CEO Ticron.

"So this is his leadership," the Supreme Ruler complimented, "exactly what many would say."

He smiled, saying 'thank you very much'.

Then he turned to see Kennix Kil cleaning the dinner plate of its contents.

"Pleased to meet you." he politely greeted, "I trust you have - SHIT!"

"What's the matter?" the Halberdgardian man responded,

"I forgot my Concerta, and to take it!"

OOC: Since the PM is based off myself IRL, he also shares the same learning disability I have IRL. I made him forget to take it to make the rp more interesting...

There would be good cheer, but unfortunately, both Tetra-Assassin and AgentFade were assassinated, so now Chancellor Kaito Saruwatari of The Blade-Wielding Republic was the delegate. He took his seat, and waited for the discussions to begin.

There would be good cheer, but unfortunately, both Tetra-Assassin and AgentFade were assassinated, so now Chancellor Kaito Saruwatari of The Blade-Wielding Republic was the delegate. He took his seat, and waited for the discussions to begin.

As the delegate from The Fallen Races entered and took his seat, Mar'ki Ticron couldn't help but notice that it wasn't Tetra-Assassin. "Please excuse my ignorance, sir, but may I ask where the your leader is?"

The Chancellor in the mist of conversation with Aubec strung away from his chat on why racoons were dangerous, dispite the Phoenixian's opinion of them being harmless, to welcome in the new leader of The Fallen Races. He made a slight comment of "Sorry to have heard about your predecessor, but it is a gloriful event that you can represent your nation in these times." and then continued to debate with his neighboring leader.

OOC: My Chancellor is supposed to be like my own personality, being he is 16 after all, but since this is an important meeting I am trying to RP him as personality sane....at least for these meetings.

OOC: How has he reacted to the fact that the PMSEA has a condition that may cause a little fuss over the convention?

OOC: In his eyes few stand out. All are equal to him, and the only ones that stand out are those wearing pink and have a tail...or is a squirrel. When he starts to make the convention a troublesome experiance, I might have to challenge that ;-)

President Vasquez drunk his Coke quietly, not paying attention to many of the other disruptions. He welcomed people as they walked past, but none of the delegates sat next to him.

He wanted the meeting to start, or at least for someone to talk to him-he'd had a hard day, with riots outside the Presidential Mansion about the recent decision to make vaccines compulsory, and when he attempted to leave, not only did he have the riot to break his way through, but it was pouring with rain, making his Cadillac have starting troubles.

2 seats away from him, his Minister for T&FC* was happily joining in the conversation between the Chancellor and Aubec. He then noticed Prime Minister Neo knocking over his glass, as if he hadn't seen it. Something bad was about to happen.

OOC: *Trade and Foreign Connections. Way too long to type.

Deputy PM Leong noticed it. Before he could ask, a waiter had cleared up the mess.

By then Neo noticed it. He whispered in his deputy (and close friend since childhood) to get an SST with the medication and fast.

"Mr. Chancellor," asked Leong, may I get a phone back to the EER*?"

*Emerald Executive Recluse

OOC: Thought I might add this-no offense meant to people with ADD.

OOC:

I know.

IC:

After Leong had gotten up from his seat, Neo had remembered that he hadn't finished asking Mr. Kil his question.

"Mr. Kil, did you and the other government officials in Halberdgardia receive my letter?"

OOC:

It's in 'New breed of special forces' thread or something like that.

Ellias Aubec noticed some commotion happening down at the other end of the table, but as it appeared that it was nothing special, he continued with his conversation with the Chancellor and President Vasquez.

Potty 5iens in gray suits contine offering wine to those who arive

One of the seated men in gray suits stands up and walks out of the room.

One of Queen Xaia Hawk's aides comes by and offers the Emperor some juice. The emperor happily excepts.

OC: Don't want to be rude correcting you, Phoenixius, but it's the MT&FC* that you're talking to. Not the President. BTW, his name is Vince Emerson. ;)

IC:

The President, still alone, only just notices the glass of potato wine in front of him. He feels that he could do with a bit of "loosening up" so he takes a sip. Then another. And more. He asks the waiter for more. And he keeps drinking.

OC: *Minister for Trade and Foreign Connections.
It might be interesting to see what happens when my President gets drunk.

President Mark Ingraham entered the room with a few of his most important aides. Glancing around the room, he was offered watermelon juice but politely declined. Taking a seat near the end of the table, he said in a loud voice, "Comrades, is everyone assembled? Are we to begin?"

The Morvonian rep walked in with an aid and took a seat.

Kaito turned to Mr. Ticron. "My predecessor form the last conference was assassinated, and so was his successor. Beleive me, I will not make the same mistakes as the last two, which got them killed."

Kaito turned to Mr. Ticron. "My predecessor form the last conference was assassinated, and so was his successor. Beleive me, I will not make the same mistakes as the last two, which got them killed."

"I am very sorry to hear that..."

"What have you to be sorry about? They both made the same exact mistake. They kept taxes too high and kept money being spent on 'Law and Order', not defence, where it should be."

Fredrick, who had been sitting quietly at the table while his counterpart filled in a cross-word pussle, looked over to the servent.

"May I please have a bottle of your finest burgundy. I could really use a glass right now."

OOC: I hope we start soon. I am impatient right now even though I now have 4 days (including today) left of a 5 day weekend! Xaia is jsut sitting there greeting people whatever.

OOC: yea, my fall break starts this Friday, so i am happy

OOC: You mean yesterday or next friday? I have the extra two days and maybe more due to a teacher strike. Hopefully it won't go on too long. *drinks orange juice both IC + RL*

OOC: Alrighty, I just moved to Crossville and they have fall break, something new that FL doesn't have.

IC:

After excusing himself from his conversation, the Chancellor stood and proudly said "Welcome fellow leaders and statesmen of the world to my humble nation. I guess, now that we are aquanted more throughly, that we shall begin with a small subject; how about that of prisoners of war and how we shall treat them."

He left the floor open.

Wang Zhaojun, one of the emperor's concubines walks in with Zarnof Krest, the minister of the Defense budget. They are followed by two guards.

Wang Zhaojun goes and sits next to the emperor.
Kresk goes and sits next to Cereis.
The two guards leave the room.
Zach (Cereis) whispers to Zarnof.
The 7 seated guards, each reach into their coat pockets and take out a small pad of paper and a pen.

Emperor Fat Monkey 13 clears his throat and says "Killing large numbers of them should be frowned upon... If a POW does not attempt to disrupt his captors, then, I believe food, shelter, and medical care should be provided... within reason. Priority given to the captor’s own people of course"

"All POWs should be given the nessecities of life but only after your own troops. They should also not be treated badly eg tortured unessicaraly. If a army captures enemy troops but can't keep them then they are left with only two options, let them go or kill them. Wich do you think is more likely to be chosen?"

"I agree that POWs should only been given stuff after your troops - after all, if the enemy is starving, and your not much better off, and then your enemy lets a whole load of his troops get captured and you HAVE to feed them, then your troops are going to be weaker, and less effective, allowign your enemy to run over your position, defeat you and take back their men."

"All POWs should be given the nessecities of life but only after your own troops. They should also not be treated badly eg tortured unessicaraly. If a army captures enemy troops but can't keep them then they are left with only two options, let them go or kill them. Wich do you think is more likely to be chosen?"

"I would have to say kill them... however a main point that you made would be about torture. Unfortunately you left it extremely vague by saying "unecesarrily"..."

"I think what he means by unecessary torture, would be only using it on high ranking officers and such like to obtain information that they would almost certainly have."

"Of course all POWs should be treat with respect and dignity, and given the basic healthcare, shelter, food, air and water." said Prime Minister Neo,

"But," said Deputy Prime Minister Leong, "we have a little problem on our hands involving a certain Corporate Entente..."

"I think what he means by unecessary torture, would be only using it on high ranking officers and such like to obtain information that they would almost certainly have."

"Are you saying that the most common type of POW, a lower-class - often private - doesn't have any information that they are unwilling to give up peacefully. What their mission is for one would be useful... The problem with saying "unecessarily" when trying to establish international rules is that everyone is going to have their own interpertation of unecessarily."

"Kill them or let them go?... Cant you just leave them locked up... There is a chance that you may end up with some food before they all starve. A man can live some time without food."

"Kill them or let them go?... Cant you just leave them locked up... There is a chance that you may end up with some food before they all starve. A man can live some time without food."

"I believe we are talking about when you have no choices left... either let them go, or let them starve in their cells (or manually kill them)"

"Excuse me, Supreme Ruler of DMG," said Mr. Leong, "but how are we to deal with 'human resources' as POWs? They are cloned humans that are puppets of a giant supercomputer."

"Ah- human resources from the Joint Congomerates... I see the problem indeed. For right now we should probably treat them the same as any other normal huamn being; However, I think cloning is a topic that must be brought up and we can discuss then."

"I personally do not belive in cloning, being a strict Orthodoax Judeo," interupted the Chanxellor from a moment of silence, "but I belive that clones should be treated as if they are human beings."

"Clones... I say any and all clones... created for war should have no more rights then a rifle.” he adds "And I do not think rifles should have rights."
He takes a sip of orange juice.

"More important is what the criteria of a POW are?
If civilians fight troops and surrender to them do they have the rights of a POW?
I say if the civilian is fighting in his home country I say yes other wise no.”
He takes another sip of orange juice.

“What about if a soldier fights without a uniform, does he give up his rights?
I say if the soldier is fighting in his home country I say no other wise yes.”
He finishes drinking the orange juice.

“What if someone refuses to identify themselves after capture but clearly can?
I say then they have no rights”
He starts drinking from a small porcelain cup filled with a clear liquid.

"Mr. Chancellor, what do you think of Chairman William Stryker?" asked Prime Minister Neo, following his DPM's question,

"I've heard of the conflict, but I do not know who are the members of the board of the Federation of Joint Conglomerates." answered Mr. Jewitt, "could you please enlighten me on who they are?"

"Yes, your stupid ignorance." said the Prime Minister, his ADHD kicking in his impulses, "Erm - sorry."

Damn it, where the hell is the medication? he thought to himself,

"Well, that's why I brought a tape, and his profile." said Leong, pulling out a folder out of his coat.

"Clones created for the sole pupose of warfare and the military have no rights as they Scamptican tests have showen they cannot integrate back nito society, only two kinds of clones are legal in Scamptica, machines, and warrior penguins with restricted secret genetic studies for scientific purposes." "By unesecary I meant unless if you tortured them jsut for no good reason and to leave it up for discussion."

"When regarding clones that maintain a soul - which is to say independent thought, feeling, and emotion; equivalent to a human being - they are to be treated exactly like that of a human being. When pertaining to clones that have no soul, they are not considered humans and do not get the same rights or treatment as humans. However this being said, I am fully against the use of clones for warfare and the creation of clones for other purposes is a sensitive topic.

I know what you meant by unecessarily, but my point still stands. If we are trying to come up with international law or policy we can not leave it so vague that one who is accused of violating it can say "We thought it was necessary.""

"Pass it around the table." Prime Minister Neo, shoving the folder to Corin Thaul, who was next to him.

He repeated the question, "Have any of you spoken to Chairman Stryker?"

*having been seated in the corner taking notes, relatively unnoticed, an advisor to Sophie MacMillan speaks up*

It just seems to me that any sentient being, whether human or not, clone or not, deserves rights as a POW. At the very least any individual recognized as a citizen by their home country deserves to be treated with some degree of humanity. Along the same lines, in reference to the point you were making *vaguely points in the direction of the delegation from Potty 5* this means everyone, regardless of who they were fighting for or what they were wearing. I dont see how any of that justifies mistreatment of another person.

As for the issue of defining "unnecessary", could we use the definition of either the capturing nation or the POW's home nation? By this I mean whatever definition is used for that nation's own citizens. Off the top of my head, perhaps a ranking is maintained or the quality of humanitarian laws in all nations and in the case of war POWs must be treated according to the laws of the more humanitarian nation.

Well, maybe thats not very practical...*mumbles* I knew I should have known better. Ms. MacMillan said not to talk, just take notes. I just had to open my mouth and embarass myself in front of all these leaders. It just seemed like such a good idea...rankings? *slinks out of room*

OOC: OK, pretend he's sobered up. (is this counted as godmoding?)

"My personal beliefs are that POWs should be kept with shelter, food, and other necessities, and they should be trialed under the regular criminal justice system. Of course, a country may set individual penalties for normal prisoners and POWs, but my opinion is they should be treated like they were a denizen of the nation in subject."
He takes a sip of Coke.

"As for clones... LA Ice only supports cloning for research purposes. If a clone was captured as a POW, they should be treated as a true biological human regardless of whether they are capable of emotion and relationship. The government may, with its typical physical examinations, conduct "research" on them."
He looks down at his empty glass. After snapping his fingers, a waiter appears. He asks for a glass bottle of Coke.

"But then, the members of our Government differ on what constitutes us taking a person as a POW. Some say any denizen of the nation being attacked, but others say only if they attempt to make an "attack" (not a defence) to the LA Ice Military Force. Personally, I am agreed with the latter."

"My final opinion on this: treat POWs like local convicts. If they are clones, treat them like humans. The main decision that our nation needs to make is what constitutes the taking of a POW."

"I would say that a POW would be anybody, clone or natural human, soldier or civilian, that took up arms against the other nation. This would be regardless of the location. Then, anyone else who didn't attack your troopers should be left alone, as they have not shown any hostility towards you.

As for torture, I would say it would be better to leave well alone - let the psycotic dictators have their fun, and we can resort to other means."

His Imperial Majesty Emperor Count Robinson Antares Scorpius of the Grand Imperium of Risban, Lord Governor of the Consortium of Shadows Region, was describable with one word: Exhausted. Risban had been in a grave amount of trouble (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=427357) lately, and it had been occupying most of the young Emperor's time.

Nevertheless, Emperor Scorpius considered the Chancellor of Truitt to be a good friend, and had promised to attend the Portshire Convention. Thus, he was here; better late than never.

The Risbanian ruler entered, leaving his Imperial Lictors outside, apologizing for being late and trying not to be too distracting as he took a seat and attempted to catch up.

“In Potty 5 convicts who take up arms to fight our military are quickly executed. Also I have the right to execute any person I wish in my country. In short the rights of my people are dictated by my whims. I don’t think that the treatment of POWs should be based on the countries own policies but should be held to a higher standard… Is not fighting a nations army usually treason… a capital offence?”

"POWs are generally captured soldiers of the enemy... Not your own citizens taking up arms against you - that is unless you are in the midst of a civil war..."

"Very much so," said Chancellor Saruwatari. "Yes, my nation is involved in the conflict with this 'Corporate Entente.' We have been since they tried to destroy the UN during the 'Emergency Crash Transmission' debacle. However, we try not to have that be a bias."

The Chancellor then opened his briefcase, and pulled out a dossier on 'human resources.'

"These aforementioned resources. They cannot think. They are puppets, as stated before, of a supercomputer. They are essentially controlled by 12 men/women, who seem to think they can do whatever they want. I'm not suprised, however." He pulled out a sheet of paper. "Here is a sample one, modeled after the HR that blew up the UN."

“Treat POWs like local convicts; did the President of LA Ice say that? My comment was my argument for a firmer standard of POW treatment”

"Why, welcome Mr. Scorpius, nice to see you here, dispite The Society." Said the Chancellor gracefully, offering the man a filled diamond glass of Truitti Taquilla. "It will wake you up faster than a steroid, without the negative side effects, fi you know what I mean." He made a short gester below the belt in shifting his weight and winking. He tried his best to make the Risbanian comfertible.

"As to P.O.W.s all together, I have treated them as if they are my own prisoners. They go into their cells, are fed, usually with an other, and are given exercises to do; but unlike normal convicts are not given too much."

He paused to drink himself his own taquilla glass. Taking in a single shot's worth, if that, he opened up his mouth with watery eyes saying "Unless they rebel and try to cause trouble, then a shot in the back of the head fits me." He then tried hysterically to blow through his nose. "Hey, you want some?" Offered the teenager to Prime Minister Neo.

"As a matter of fact, I did, President of Potty 5" quickly replied President Vasquez. "If there was a riot inside the town against the attacks of our army, we would quickly arrest people involved... but then, we would only keep them in for 24 hours maximum.... I do think that LA Ice needs a policy regarding POWs. But, how should we punish them? Persoanlly, I don't believe in corporal or capital punishment. The death penalty was quickly outlawed when it came to my attention. I would keep them in a prison for X amount of months, days, years, whatever. But... how to work out how long to keep our prisoners in? Difficult-and that's why I'm here."

"Thanks, but no thanks. You all still have not answered my question: Have any of you met Chairman Stryker yet? And, Mr. Ticron, please pass me back the folder."

The Chief Executive Officer politely did so. Neo then takes out a tape and asks for a television. A Truitti guard comes from behind a door pushing an old, box-like model. Not exactly what I had in mind, but it'll do.

"This is an example of what disgusting things they have done. The footage (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=9738518&postcount=1) was stolen by a hacker."

OOC:
EDIT - Thanks DMG.

"Thanks, but no thanks. You all still have not answered my question: Have any of you met Chairman Stryker yet? And, Mr. Ticron, please pass me back the folder."

The Chief Executive Officer politely did so. Neo then takes out a tape and asks for a television. A Truitti guard comes from behind a door pushing an old, box-like model. Not exactly what I had in mind, but it'll do.

"This is an example of what disgusting things they have done. The footage was stolen by a hacker."

OOC:
Click the 'corporate entente' link in my sig to see what footage awaits.

"Here you are," responded Mar'ki Ticron as he handed the folder back to Prime Minister Neo. "While I have not formally met Chairman Stryker, I have learned much about him and we have corresponded in messages."

ooc: is the video suppose to be the entire thread or a specific post?

"Here you are," responded Mar'ki Ticron as he handed the folder back to Prime Minister Neo. "While I have not formally met Chairman Stryker, I have learned much about him and we have corresponded in messages."

ooc: is the video suppose to be the entire thread or a specific post?
OOC: It's supposed to be the first post of the thread

OOC: It's supposed to be the first post of the thread

ooc: just a heads up: if you want to make the link only a certain post, click on the number of the post in the top right corner and then copy and paste that link...

IC: "Yes, I am, aware of their 'unique' practices," said Mar'ki Ticron as he watched the video footage.

"hmp... I see this no different then any other clone… by the way how can a human resource be cheap? What about training? That is a huge expense of my forces. But what does this have to do with treatment of POWs?”

"You'll see," answered Prime Minister, "just watch damn it!" He was right. Two dozen operatives stormed into the room, as a human resource takes out two machetes and swiftly slashes them....

"While they are cheap, I shall never personally support the use of "human resources!" declares President Vasquez, slamming his fist on the table. "I cannot believe that! I... I mean... just... what... what the hell WAS that?"

"And, how are we supposed to keep those.. things as POWs? They're too smart. What do we do?" He shoves his head into his palms, in dispair.

OOC: Did you read the link?

oOC: Yes.

"Exactly. That's the point. Human resources are not supposed to think...but some do snap out of it and gain a conscience. And what if the chip in their head malfunctions? How are we supposed to remove the thing from their heads? And above all, how should my government trial the board and Stryker? The objectives in Operation Great Avenger were clear: 'Eliminate all forms of opposition while attempting to capture or kill the members of the board of Joint Conglomerates.' How should I trial him?" he said the whole paragraph so quickly, like a hyperactive child with too much candy in his belly.

"I would not have a clue. Too weak under the criminal justice system. And it's not really a 'crime' to make clones that are instructed to kill in a war. I cannot think of a single idea. You cannot create and pass a law that makes it illegal because it would only be in effect from now on, and surely by then Stryker will know and stop producing those monsters."

"But, if we take the chips... is there any known way to temporarily subdue them? Our expert programmers may be able to re-program the chips. They're experts, really-their software runs the whole nation, from traffic lights to military."

"No. As you may know, Mr. President, the war started because of the fact that an unarmed plane filled with independent civilian investigators from Southeastasia was vaporized, after being denied access to land. But what other offenses can I trial him for? And yes, you may set up a facility to remove the chips from their heads, as soon as the generals have set up shop." the Prime Minister responded.

"Inhumane treatment of living people? That's all I can think of, sorry. Is there anyone else here who can tell what they should be trialed for?"

Kil had been sitting back, once again waiting for his point of entry. When the delegate from LA Ice finished speaking, he finally entered into the conversation.

"Slavery.

"These 'human resources,' as I have come to understand, are little more than slaves bound to the will of the Board of Joint Conglomerates through the micro-chip embedded in their skulls. They are being held in servitude and are being forced to commit actions against their will. That sounds quite like slavery to me. And slavery is a heinous crime that is unambiguous and easy to prosecute.

"There you have it, my friends. It is nothing less than slavery."

"Mr. Kil, you're a bit confused." responded Deputy Prime Minister Leong, "while it is true they are being enslaved, how are we supposed to apprehend them? Have you paying attention to the footage? Think of what could happen should they press the button and make their escape...it'll be a massacre, while not as bad as al-Zarqiwi's 'final solution', it'll be even more messy. Have you met with Chairman William Stryker? Or, have you even heard of him before Neo sent his letter?"

OOC: Did you click the link, Hal?

"It seems that we have left the point a little. Although the Chancellor has the final say, I'd venture my opinion that these Joint Conglomerates have seem to done bad things, and created clones that can only - except in rare occasions - behave as this so-called hive-mind wishes. This seems to me that if you captured them, they'd still be considered as POWs, as they are after al still basically human. Therefore normal rules of POW internship would apply." Ellias takes a sip of his drink before continuing, "And so we get back to the main point of this meeting, which is about how to deal with POWs, regardless of their origin - a POW is a POW, anyway you look at it."

“1: Food, shelter, and healthcare should be provided but it is reasonable to expect a nation that can not provide these things for it own to provide them for it enemies. So it should provide all the food, shelter, and healthcare it can with its own getting priority.”

2: As for torture and massacring them, I say that this should not be allowed. If you can not provide for the troops then they should be left alone, even if locked up. Conditions may change before they die of starvation.”

3: If a POW attempts to escape, or to disrupt his captors through actions then the captor should be allowed to use lethal force to stop him.”

If this becomes law then POWs can expect to live through most conflicts and only if the nation that is holding them is in severe trouble will they have problems. Also if POWs start causing major problems through active resistance then the nation can deal with that with great leeway.

Now does any one find these to be too strict or can we agree that this is a minimum that should be granted.

As for special cases such as slave clone armies, I suggest we address those later?”

Starving to death in a locked cell with other members of your species is a horriable experiance, if it looks like you will not be able to provide for them killing at least some of them will help. If we don't let our non-pow prisoners starve in their own filth why should we let POWs starve in their filth?

If left in the cells there is hope. Letting them out is not an option in most cases and I think KILLING them is too far.

Killing POWs would make us just as bad as the enemies, and it's like fighting a war, but they have no way to protect themselves!

*meek whispers from the corner*
They could give the POW the choice...choose to wait and possibly starve, die quickly, or integrate into society...more freedom for POW religious issues...

"And how many POWs will choose possible death or certain death, when there exists a choice to live? Admittedly as you state they would be integrated into society, but a) they usually were forced to fight by their governments, and b) they could always leave your country to go back, or proceed to orchestrate terror attacks on your nation. Either way, its bad to let them loose. I'd suggest that if your low on resources (as if you have enough, this discussion is academic), you keep the high ranking and important enemy soldiers, and hand over the grunts back to your enemy. Sure, they get their troops back, but you still have their tactical masterminds (if you caught them), so they can't do much withe them." Ellias leans back and steeples his fingers.

"If I 'hand over the grunts back to your enemy' they will be used to fight me? Who would supply thier enamy with troops... What if the enamy could through an international aid program feed it's own troops?"

ooc: sorry for any typo's

Letting them integrate into society??? Are you MAD? That's like letting a prisoner run loose... actually, it IS!
In LA Ice, the POWs would be fed (albeit with prison gruel), so they wouldn't starve unless they chose to... so giving them the option may not be suitable.

"The question remains: what do we do with POWs that are held by a nation that can't support them? Getting the POWs nation to send supplies for them is a nice idea, but the potential abuse this could generate is huge. Some nations might not like the idea of releasing POWs back to their home nation, so that doesn't seem like a perfect solution. How about asking for aid from other nations not involved in the conflict, in order to support the POWs, and only the POWs? Obviously there would have to be some sort of regulation commitee to ensure the aid isn't abused (as the previous example)."

"What about an international NGO formed to help POWs in case the nation holding them is unable to care for them. This can act as an intermediary that would, hopefuly not abuse it powers"

OCC: NGO non-governmental organization

"What I belive is that P.O.W.s should be given cells, maybe a cellmate, but mostly kept up in the cells. No windows, just a reinforced wall with a few opennings for food and air.

"As to their options, well, if they cause trouble I belive a bullet through the back of the head is required. Otherwise, one should try to at least treat them as a lower middle classed citizen food and service wise. Not to get off I am sadistic, I mean if they try to start a riot or something of that."

The Chancellor looked over to the Douvier, one skilled in P.O.W.s, "Personally," he began in his accent, "if those idiots treated me like a lower middle classed man, I think I would have had the strength to start an uprising." The Chancellor stared at the boy for a minute and said "And that is why I run the country."

As the delegates began to talk more the Chancellor turnned to Ellias Aubec and asked "If you had no money for camps and the such, would you pull a Fascist and place the prisoners in a secured work camp, mining or what not?"

"Ah, but I would always have money." Ellias laughed, "But seriously I might think about putting POWs in a work camp or something if I was really strapped for cash."

The emperor says loud, and curtly "NO WORK CAMPS"

The Chancellor jumped for a moment and said "If your war machine is dieing, as is your own citizenry own standerds due to a war that keeps going, I belive taking P.O.W.'s and putting them to work is good. Not forcing them without any food for three days and then giving them a rodent to munch on after the fourth day, but having the same standerds as being jailed up. We do it to prisoners, why not to enemies of the state?"

“Potty 5 consists primarily of jungle. If people who were not accustomed to working in the environment, which can have temperatures up to 311 degrees Kelvin, Humidity over 100%, disease carting bugs, poisonous snakes, and man-eating fish and animals, were to be forced to work under condition that locals have been dealing with for multiple millennia they would not survive very long. Also how do you think my troops would do if forced to work in a temperate environment during the winter or what about my troops in the desert? What the local and native peoples can do could kill one not accustomed to it.”
He pauses to catch his breath
“Then what about the differences in the codes that countries have relating to working conditions? My troops could be exposed to huge amounts of toxic and radioactive materials that could drastically shorten their lives and greatly reduce their health? This also would generate into huge costs for my nation or any other nation that provides healthcare for its troops. I FIND THAT LABOR CAMPS ARE UNACCEPTABLE. No previous (RL) treated has allowed for this. POWs are not criminals that are citizens of another nation that should be treated with respect and dignity.”
He takes a breath
“When was the last time you saw POWs used as labor and it turned out good. Excluding when the user had already won the war?”

After listening to the conversation for a while, the Supreme Ruler spoke...

"What you are forgetting is that you are at war! There are no friends in war and there is certainly no benefitting the enemy - as they will do whats best for their own nation and cause. If that requires using POWs as forced labor than so be it. Remember that was your choice in the first place to get involved in the war and you must pay the penalties of war..."

"So why not just rain down nuclear, biological, and chemical weapons apon all the lands that my enemy controls? Why not launch Missile that are powered by fission?"

"You are now using ilogical debates in your defense. It is choice wether or not to use weapons of massive destruction on your enemy, but be warned that your enemy will be justified in using them against you. Also, the international community will most likely condemn you for the attack (ooc: you will be ignored). The use of WMDs in war, results in stalemate or utter destruction while using POWs for manual labor helps your war effort.

It seems you are still yet to grasp that in war not everyone plays by the rules and if a nation thinks it is in its best interest to use POWs as such than so be it. They are defenseless or innocent people that are being used for labor... They are soldiers and killers. And if they had the chance they would likely kill you."

"It seems that I am a lone on the view that POWs should not be forced to work.. in the intest in progrees I will give up on that argument."
he pauses
"Why don't we just use the 3rd Geneva Convention? It is very well writen and has been in use from the 21st of October AD 1950"

ooc: the entire 3rd Geneva convention can be found here. It (only) deals with the treatment of POWs. http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Third_Geneva_Convention

((Alright. We're saying that it wasn't my Emperor who was here, but a representative, as my Emperor is now dead. (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=449199)))


Adrianus Flannicus, the personal representative of the Emperor to the Portshire Convention, nodded.
"I believe that using the 3rd Geneva Convention as a guide for this would be most suitable," he piped in. "Think that the document is good and serves the purpose we-"

His beeper went off.

"Excuse me."

Flannicus stood and stepped out, glancing at the beeper. Moments later he was on his cellphone. Shortly after that, he was on the floor, nearly passed out and mumbling for his escort to bring him back to Risban immediately and apologize to the other delegates for having to leave early. Apparently, there was a big problem back home that required his immediate attention.

Fredrick replied, "I agree, the 3rd Geneva Convention is adequete."

"I presume the Third Geneva Convention could be used in our Second Portshire Convention. May someone please over view the ideas of the Second Geneva for those who may not be so literated in the field of the document?" Agreed the Chancellor looking around.

OOC: I got a good idea what it is saying, but I wanna clear some things out without reading the entire thing. So, someone who has read it (lord help you) please give a brief review of it for us.

ooc: A summary of the Third Geneva Convention:

The third Geneva Convention ("Relative to the Treatment of Prisoners of War") covers members of the armed forces who fall into enemy hands. They are in the power of the enemy State, not of the individuals or troops who have captured them


Prisoners of war MUST be:

- Treated humanely with respect for their persons and their honour.
- Enabled to inform their next of kin and the Central Prisoners of War Agency (ICRC, the International Red Cross) of their capture.
- Allowed to correspond regularly with relatives and to receive relief parcels.
- Allowed to keep their clothes, feeding utensils and personal effects.
- Supplied with adequate food and clothing.
- Provided with quarters not inferior to those of their captor's troops.
- Given the medical care their state of health demands.
- Paid for any work they do.
- Repatriated if certified seriously ill or wounded, (but they must not resume active military duties afterwards) .
- Quickly released and repatriated when hostilities cease.

Prisoners of war must NOT be:
-Compelled to give any information other than their name, age, rank and service number.
- Deprived of money or valuables without a receipt (and these must be returned at the time of release).
- Given individual privileges other than for reasons of health, sex, age, military rank or professional qualifications.
- Held in close confinement except for breaches of the law, although their liberty can be restricted for security reasons.
- Compelled to do military work, nor work which is dangerous, unhealthy or degrading.


IC:
I do have certain problems with Third Geneva Convention and will not accept it as is...

"Great DMG what about the 3rd Geneva Convention do you dislike? Is it that it gives the same priority to your troops as the POWs? Or that you cant just kill them?... One some parts I am very willing to make concessions if it means more nations will adopt our Convention but on some issues would not allow too much to change."

OCC: Good work with the points of the 3rd Geneva Convention. Have you read it before or did you read it just for this RP? I read it just as research for the RP and decided to suggest it because it was very complete and it has a well known name.

"Great DMG what about the Geneva Convention do you dislike? Is it that it gives the same priorty to your troops as the POWs? Or that you cant just kill them?"

"I don't like what you are insinuating abuot me or my people - watch your tone," said the Supreme Ruler sternly at the delegate from Potty 5.

He then turned to the rest of the delegates and pronounced his misgivings about the 3rd Geneva Convention, "Yes, one of my problems is giving them the same treatment as our own soldiers. I highly doubt that in most prisons the convicts' cells are just as nice as where the guards live... Also I don't think they should be paid for their work or be able to correspond and recieve packages from relatives.

About what they should not be: Privileges should be determined by the captor and not regulated in anyway, the last part about work is to vague and should be removed, as well as the part about close confinement as that is also vague and unecessary."

ooc: I have read it

"I don't mean to insult you in any way, I just thought those might be reasons you have issue with the 3rd Geneva Convention as it restricts the killing of POWs greatly, so killing as punishment is not allowed, and the other issue is one that i think many people could have difficulty with, if you remember both of the issues have come up before in this meeting. "

"I understand why you do not wish to allow the conveyance of messages and packages and I think that is reasonable. But what if text only messages were allowed with no expatiation of privacy and censorship? Would that be sufficient or are you firm on this issue?"

"I do remember the issues coming up earlier, however I do not believe I ever expressed my want to needlessly kill POWs. Rather I said the point was if you had to either let them go or kill them, the choice would be kill them..."

"Allowing text only messages with no expectation of privacy and allowing censorship would be fine. As it basically means that you do not have to allow them to send anything..."

Fredrick, after reading the document before him, looked up from the table.

"We cannot allow POWs to correspond with members of their families. In doing this they could plot an escape, and it must be deleted from the protocol."

Fredrick, after reading the document before him, looked up from the table.

"We cannot allow POWs to correspond with members of their families. In doing this they could plot an escape, and it must be deleted from the protocol."

"Exactly my concern."

After listening to the debate, and having a quick scan of the 3rd Geneva Convention, Ellias spoke up: "This Geneva Convention has some nice points, but as some have already stated, in times of war some of these points allow too many loopholes for POWs to take advantage and possibly give tactical knowledge to your enemy. Here is a quick revision that I just noted down."

Ellias hands around some sheets of paper:


Prisoners of war MUST be:

- Treated humanely with respect for their persons and their honour.
- Enabled to inform their next of kin and the Central Prisoners of War Agency (ICRC, the International Red Cross) of their capture.
- Allowed to recieve messages only from relatives.
- Allowed to keep their clothes, feeding utensils and personal effects, except where said equpiment is deemed dangerous, or unsuitable for a POW.
- Supplied with adequate food and clothing, where available.
- Provided with quarters not significantly inferior to those of their captor's troops, where possible.
- Given the medical care their state of health demands, where possible.
- Repatriated if certified seriously ill or wounded, (but they must not resume active military duties afterwards).
- Quickly released and repatriated when hostilities cease.

Prisoners of war must NOT be:
-Compelled to give any information other than their name, age, rank and service number.
- Deprived of money or valuables without a receipt (and these must be returned at the time of release).
- Given individual privileges other than for reasons of health, military rank or professional qualifications.
- Held in close confinement except for breaches of the law, although their liberty can be restricted for security reasons, where possible.
- Compelled to do military work, nor work which is dangerous, unhealthy or degrading, unless conditions demand it.

"I like the way you think," the Supreme Ruler said to Ellias. 'A perfect agreement' he thought, 'Nothing set in stone'.

"As the Supreme Ruler of DMG and I hereby cast my vote in favor of the proposed agreement."

"Why thank you. I just thought that some of the things about the conditions POWs live in, were just too straight-jacketed if your nation was struggling to keep their own soldiers alive etc. Plus I didin't like the idea of information getting out, or equipment in, so only messages from relatives into the camp should be allowed."

"This is not acceptable, the people who would most want a POW freed is a relitive, and, what they are allowed to keep must be more defined, such a broad definition is too easy to manipulate."

"This is not acceptable, the people who would most want a POW freed is a relitive, and, what they are allowed to keep must be more defined, such a broad definition is too easy to manipulate."

"The first part of your statement is true in some sense. Yes they would be the ones that most wanted them out, however they would also do less harm than allowing a POW to correspond with his CO and tell him where he was being held or other information.

The second part means that they can't keep anything that could be used as a weapon or anything that just seems out of place, such as a 50 inch flat screen tv..."

"Yes but a rogue nation could use that to say that they cannot keep any device that keeps them warm."

"Yes but a rogue nation could use that to say that they cannot keep any device that keeps them warm."

"Make a respectable argument that a device that keeps them warm is either dangerous or unsuitable for a POW..."

"A prisoner could use a scarf to choke a gaurd to death they would say."

"A prisoner could use a scarf to choke a gaurd to death they would say."

"My mistake, I thought you meant a mechanical or electrical device. Your point is a good one: however I might agree that they should not be allowed a scarf. Prisoners are not allowed scarves as they might commit suicide with them... I would think that heat would be provided if able."

"I must say that your argument is flawed at the most basic level - if we were to ban scarfs as they could be used to strangle guards, then for the same reason all clothing should be banned. And, along the same lines, all POWs should be handcuffed and tied up in case they use their body to assault the guards. You would pretty much have to feed them yourselves, and keep them sedated probably in order not to risk escape, if we take you view on POWs. However, most of the time, the soldiers would probably rather be lcoked up somewhere safe away from the fighting, rather than risk their health attempting to escape. For instance, during WWII most POW camps worked on the honour principle for the majority of things - of course the prisoners attempted to escape, but they hardly ever attempted to kill their guards, as more often than not the guards were courteous to the POWs, and there was an understanding between the prisoner and the guard."

"Often guards are in positions that can not be reached by a scarf, such as in a guard tower, armed with guns. There is little reason for a POW to kill a single guard as then the one in the tower with guns would kill him if he attempted to escape. If there is a killer in the camp then that is a different issue and the killer could receive punishment, and there is not much chance of the killers identity remaining secret."

"Well then, Mr. Aubec's suggestions seem very nice, and if no one objects, it shall be added in the Portshire Convention's documents. If that is all than we shall depart and come back again for a free session on anything that should also be added in." The Chancellor said, easing himselff out of his seat.

"Very well, I shall see you at the next meeting." Ellias gets up and walks out, his group following.

"This is an acceptable outcome. I thank the Chancellor for hosting this meeting."

"I concur," said Mar'ki Ticron as he stood up and headed to the door alongside the Supreme Ruler, "We look forward to future meetings," he said as the exited.

OOC: Oops, I had forgotten about this... busy with other things anyways, sort of... I'm happy with the outcome though.

"Well than, we she see eachother in two days, then." He nodded and shook hands as delegates left the room. JUst one more meeting, and the drafting would be over.