NationStates Jolt Archive

The first run of the sea exercise was begun surprisingly when our Vice Admiral was still in the briefing and it was announced that the exercise had begun! He had to race back to his ship to take command again and was rather miffed that there was no time to prepare properly.

There were exasperating problems at the outset, compounded by frustrations on all sides.

Everything halted when suddenly there was an unexpected tactical nuclear defense screen set off by Listeneisse to block an incoming volley of over a thousand incoming munitions sent by Spizania. Threats of a nuclear retaliation ended the exchange. People realized the naval exercise sort of went off the planned course of events from the outset.

Then we rolled the tape back and realized the bombers would never have reached their targets to release most of their munitions without being intercepted anyway. There was also a real fuzzy idea of how precisely the bombers got to where they were given 0 time elapsing with forward progress of the fleets.

So we called a halt to the exercise and had a quick briefing about what we were going to do for force-on-force live exercise rules.

The restart was announced, and we have sailed forward a good few hours. We've advanced to positions within striking distance of each other.

Opposing submarine squadons are 201 km apart and have all gone to quiet speeds navigating around the Balearic Islands. OPFOR is NE off Menorca, while MP Coalition are forking to stream around Mallorca to the N and S.

Surface forces are barely at long-range radar detection distances of 460 km. The MP convoy is further back, 473-506 km distance from closest OPFOR surface fleets, but only 350 km from the OPFOR submarines.

I think we need strong guidance on what constitutes appropriate radii for radio, radar, CAP, ASW helo ops patrols and sonar detection ranges.

We also need a bit of a discussion on who can see what with what satellites.

Spizania is claiming he has a cloud of 190 sea surveillance satellites with self-defense centrifuge guns aboard, thus he should always know where we are positioned at sea.

While I believe it's possible to have a sea navigational system, the centrifuge guns simply stuck in my craw as utterly fictitious. I'm putting up a firm protest, and asking for others their opinions.

I'd like to know what Spizania's budget was for each of those birds, what the power consumption is for each centrifuge gun, whether he could cite actual deployed real-world examples of centrifuge gun satellite defense systems, and if he cannot really do so, I'd like to scrap that sort of argument for satellite defense.

We've had a few disagreements with Spizania's military over the course of the discussion, reining him in from PMT concepts to MT concepts on a number of points. I do not mind if he has satellite defense systems, but I think they should be realistic and modern -- i.e., can and do work today.

Current research shows that while centrifuge guns actually can be built, their related power consumption and mass is prohibitive except for use on large land vehicles or as a fixed point defense weapon -- the ground could absorb the impact.

Claims that they are frictionless and recoilless can be proven false by physical proof and example.

Unless, again, proof positive can be given that these are modern tech, currently deployed or in late stages for planning and committed to deployment, I'm calling them as a no-go for satellite defense.

So the thread is slowly lurching forward, like the fleets. But I want to halt time passage until we understand the nature of this sea surveillance satellite system better, and whether they are appropriately targetable by orbital KKVs -- such as the three built but as yet undeployed KE-ASATs (http://www.globalsecurity.org/space/systems/ke_asat.htm).

Again, I do not object to there being a fleet of 190 satellites. The question is -- how are they all deployed? First, I doubt that all 190 are directly over the current operational zone at present time.

Second, what's their period of passage over the Med?

We do not need to target all of them. (Nor will we actually fire at any of them.) We just need to know how many birds need to come down to prevent the sea surveillance cluster from seeing anything over the Med right now.

So it will be up to Spizania to answer that, and up to VL to respond to a sudden launch of a huge volley of missiles at his carrier group.

With the vast quanity of missiles available to the combatants, it might take a long while before we are low enough to worry about people running out. Still, it's important for folks to note what they are expending in terms of VLS cannisters.

That's the present status from my own POV. Others will give you their own I'm sure.

Otherwise -- welcome back!!!

OOC: well actually, to make it very simple for you, nothing happened, other than some cancelled battle 2, and thereafter restarted. if you jump in now, you should be able to fight on your side and pick something with, as no ships have yet clashed.

OOC: The gun is being spun up constantly, it has diamond coated bearings, this gives it EXTREEMLY low friction (The syntheseis of diamonds is modern tech), if the weapon was ever used it would only get two or three bursts before it was tottaly out of momentum and would ahve to recharge again.
These sattelites weigh 20 TONNES, ive had to use near satrun V sized rockets to get these things into space, the total cost of the project has run to 750bn dollars, and thats a conservative estimate.
And the recoil produced is directed by the way the mount opposistion with teh main orbital adjustment thruster (I have to use some rocket propelant to counter this)

Oh and the naval assets may have to be withdrawn to go and fight a war alongside the IADF, the ground troops can stay if your OK with that.

If Spizania needs to pull out, we might want to simply end the exercise here and move on to the next one.

Here's how it changes the sides:

MP Coalition (Not including non-combatant escorted ships)
VL MP......... 2 CVN, 2 LHD, 5 CGN, 9 DDG, 15 FFG, 3 AAW Frigates, 5 PF, 3 SSN, 3 MCM, 1 LPD
Wingarde...... 1 CVN, 4 CGN, 32 DDG, 4 SSN
Listeneisse... 2 CV, 2 LHD, 4 LPD, 11 DDG, 2 DDL, 1 DD, 8 SSN, 4 MCM
Vuhifellian St 1 CVN, 2 CGN, 1 DDG, 1 LHD, 1 SSN
_____________________
Total MP..... 129: 4 CVN, 2 CV, 11 CGN, 53 DDG, 2 DDL, 1 DD, 15 FFG, 3 AAW FF, 5 PF, 16 SSN, 7 MCM, 5 LHD, 5 LPD

OPFOR
VL OPFOR...... 3 CVN, 10 DDG, 9 FF, 1 FFG, 7 SSN, 1 LPD
Spizania...... (withdrawn)
Triancia...... 3 CFWN, 3 CG, 6 DDG, 6 SSN, 3 FFG, 3 BBGN
_____________________
Total OPFOR.. 55: 3 CVN, 3 CFWN, 3 BBGN, 3 CG, 16 DDG, 9 FF, 4 FFG, 13 SSN, 1 LPD

In terms of carriers, the OPFOR are Charles de Gaulle-class. (.4 size), while the MP CVs from Listeneisse are .8 the size of a Nimitz.

So it's about "5.6" carriers vs. "4.2" carriers.

I'm not sure how the CFWN compares in size/capacity to a Nimitz.

Triancia has been posting irregularly. And VL OPFOR's fleet is presently under missile attack. (They might likely survive.)

We can either continue, though the going has been slow, or we can wrap.

Opinions?

OOC: Hmm...

Sorry, occupied by school, Civ IV, and work most recently.

Is it possible to, say, move on to another exercise? Start fresh in that way?

I'd be up for moving on.

OOC: OK with me, should we go with battle 3 (Greek Islands) or any other,
such as the the Belgian and Luxembourgian Ardennes or the Austrian Alps? it's your choice.

OOC: okay, after some talking, I've decided to do the Austrian Alps. everything okay with that? here comes the intro (hopefully finished before I have to leave):

IC:
Detailed Map, Austria (http://www.gunsmoke.com/scot/vac2000/alps_map.html)
Switzerland, Detailed Map (http://ski-zermatt.com/mattnet/pics/large%20switzerland%20map.gif)

FROM: MILEXCOM
TO: ALL NATIONS INVOLVED
SUBJECT: BATTLE 3

Goodafternoon, ladies and gentlemen. we have a situation here. OPFOR has landed near Genua and has captured Milano. they are currently marching up towards the Alps, and MP forces have been stationed on the other side of the alps, and are now moving to reinforce positions of the non-existant MP forces in the south. MP and OPFOR forces will clash in the Alps, in an area running in the square Zürich-Milano-Salzburg-Venezia, and that has been closed off for civilian visit during the exercises. be advised that there still are some civilians living or operating buildings.
Starting points:
MP: München (Munich)
OPFOR: Milano (Milan)
VL MP:

20 Rafale fighters
10 A400M transport aircraft
5 C-17 Globemaster aircraft
50 Leclerc MBT
10 Leopard 2A6EX MBT
5 Tigre Attack Helicopters
20 NH-90 transport helicopters
2 Global Hawk UAV's (MP Colours: White)
90 VBCI Wheeled IFV
30 BV-206s (Viking) APC
110 VAB APC
200 Eagle IV 4x4

Korps 1, Special Service Rainbow (50 men)
Mechdiv 3, Van Luxemburgian Army (5,000 men)
Alpbrig 9, "Alpenbergbrigade" (1,000 men)


also: there are the same RoE's active now, and I would like to give you a tip. the Brennerpass and the Gotthardpass are the best ways to cross the alps. tunnels ther ehave been closed because of the fear of damaging the structure of it. anyways, I will try to supply you with some accurate maps of the area over time.

OOC: C'mon, where's everybody? is nobody interested, or is everyone still busy of thinking what they should send?

VSS Milky Way

"Sir, incoming information, says that OPFOR have captured the city of Milano, standard ROE." Said a young ensign to the Commander in charge of target assignment to the fleet.

"All troops and vehicles equipped with training equippment?"

"Yes sir, jets loaded with desintegrating rockets, they won't kill anything, but we'll be damned if they don't make a hell of a loud noise."

"Alert the Louis Mastoeni, all F-47's are to be upgraded to combat alert Ascent"

"Yes sir, opening up channel to the carrier now, Attention Captain Huitz and Admiral Harold Fenris. We've got hostiles occupying a friendly town , this is an EX, Milky Way, out."

=====

VSS Louis Mastroeni

"Roger that Milky Way" Said the Captain of the vessel, Daniel Huitz. "Admiral, I think we should intervene now, we've waited too long as it is, the main point of us being deployed is not to waste up the oversized military budget, but for our soldiers, poorly trained soldiers I should add, can learn how the professional international militaries conduct operation."

The Admiral sighed, they were in the top observation deck of the ship, far above the high tech control room and weapons center a few decks below.

"Fine, I abhor war, even excerises, but if you're just gonna' keep on complaining, then I might as well deploy, but not before the salute."

The Admiral withdrew a PDA from his pocket, flipped the cover, and punched in a few commands, the ship's morning alarm sounded instantaneously, and within minutes most of the crew had made it to the flight deck where the Vuhifellian Flag was waving in the wind.

"All Hands Salute! F&A! [Flag & Anthem]" Barked the Admiral.

All personell on the deck faced towards the flag now, gave a salute, and proceded with the national anthem

O'er azure skies,
And emerald plains,
Where Freedom and Justice Prevail!
With courage and strength,
We'll fight to the end,
For Liberty In our Land!

"Report back to your stations, All fighter pilots are to take off within the next half hour, to the city of Milano, to secure air supremacy so that aircraft of the Van Lux Military and other MP Coalition aircraft can make their way to the town. This is Admiral Harold Fenris, that is all."

And they did as they were told, the ones that had no business on the flight deck went under, whilethe re-fuelers, the loaders, and the flight coordinators acted with the pilots to get the planes off the ship ASAP.

"Admiral, are we going to send ground forces to the Combat Zone?"

"Only after the MP Coalition has guarenteed a safe corridor for our troops to go through, relay that to the forces on the mainland would ya'"

=====

Thirty minutes laters, give or take a few due to the inefficiency of one of the EX Armaments loaders, and thirty of the sixty F-47's were cleared for take off.

"Louis Mastroeni 1 Ofnir, you are cleared for take off on catapult one. Louis Mastroeni 2 Ofnir, you are cleared for take off on catapult two. Ofnir and Razgriz squadrons will follow in a 1 to 24 order on only the first two catapults, catapults three, four, five, and six are out of commission for this excerise, this is control, over."

The leader of Louis Mastroeni Ofnir Squadron, Ofnir 1, Ashley Immeliat, looked over to her wingman, Jason Menalati, in his cockpit, "Jason, keep on my nine o' clock until we get to Milano okay? Ya' got that?"

"Yes ma'am! Arming training rockets and training laser now!"

"Hold fire until we get to the combat zone, drop tanks once we engage, that goes for ALL you nuggets back there!"

"Yes ma'am"

Ofnir 1 and 2 took off, thirty seconds later, the next two jets took off from the carrier.

"This is force deployment operator for the Vuhifellian Carrier Louis Mastroeni to whoever in the MP coalition who's listening, our jets are taking off now and are proceeding to secure the airspace around the combat zone, over."

OOC: Vuhifell, the exercise hasn't been officially started as of yet. also, if you want to join the MP side, I advise you to base your forces in München (Munich)

also, for everyone's record, we have made some changes to the system, as we saw them earlier. this time, we'll operate in blocks of 4 NS Hours every RL day, or if someone hasn't catched up yet, somewhat longer. this means that we can RP an NS Day in about a RL week. for every day, everyone is friendly asked to submit their objectives for that day, on which I (and Listeneisse, the mastermind behind this whole plan) will check on credibility (such as pulling your forces over the alps in one day when counting on heavy fighting.) this all is to forecome issues we've had earlier with this (rather unknown) sort of godmoding.

also, we have made some changes to the original battle plan. now, OPFOR will start from the line Turin-Milan-Verona-Venice, and MP along the line Basel-Zürich-Friedrichshafen-München-Linz-Wien. we also now count that Slovenia and France are off-limits, and you may use the complete Austro-Swiss area.

Also, for this time, and all following battles, I will only take one side, as I'm afraid that two sides get a bit busy. it also asked me to divert RPíng skills over those two, and that did not make my RP better.

also, a word on the airbases. there are several bases around this location, in particular these ones:

MP
one near München (Überrhein AFB) constructed by Van Luxemburg. this means that there are 2 strips, crosswise laid, with hangars for up to 300 aircraft. that does not include aircraft staying outside, which could include another 100.

OPFOR
Milan (Di Venezia AFB) once again constructed by me, 3 strips, hangars for up to 200 aircraft and 50 outside.
a small one in Venice (Po AFB), counting one strip and space for 75 aircraft.

"NEUTRAL" (to be captured)
one near Bellinzona (Wasserfall AFB), counting 4 strips and space for 350 aircraft inside, and 50 outside.
one in Gmünd, on the Tauernautobahn. it counts 1 strip, space for 40 aircraft inside, 20 outside.

Thank you All!

(bump for participants)

München, a while before the start of the exercise

The NH-90 helicopter slowly lifted from the pad at the Überrhein AFB, before heading towards the high mountains in the south. in it were several Van Luxemburgian officials, patrolling the area to check the safety. it firstly landed at the Brennerpass, checking the thick layer of snow just outside of a tunnel. the whole pass had been cleared from snow, but off-limits, there could be a layer of up to 2 metres thick at some places. later, some BV206s vehicles ploughed through it, and checked the heat of Gletschers (Glaciers) to ensure the safety of vehicles driving over it. also, several Rafales patrolled the area and escorted two A400M's to the neutral airfields, to ensure those could land safely. also, heavy equipment was prepared for the Winter, aswell as Snowmobiles to give the paratroops a safe getaway.

IC SECRET: VAN LUXEMBURGIAN STRATEGY

Van Luxemburgian Special Forces will paradrop together with Listeneissian troops over St. Moritz, and will perform raids on all roads passing the Swiss border, and will also guide Listeneissian forces around the battlefield. they will then wait for the main group to link up, which will arive by various highways and passes, from München, and then move up together with those forces to Bellinzona, Lugano and then Milano.

Alpbrig 9 will pull into the Zillertal, and pass the Hintertuxer Gletscher to get into Italy, and will thereafter try to Liberate Bolzano.

(OOC:Could all participants post an actual ORBAT aswell as their objectives?
thanks.)

MP:
Van Luxemburg:
20 Rafale fighters
10 A400M transport aircraft
5 C-17 Globemaster aircraft
50 Leclerc MBT
10 Leopard 2A6EX MBT
5 Tigre Attack Helicopters
20 NH-90 transport helicopters
2 Global Hawk UAV's (MP Colours: White)
90 VBCI Wheeled IFV
30 BV-206s (Viking) APC
110 VAB APC
200 Eagle IV 4x4

Korps 1, Special Service Rainbow (50 men)
Mechdiv 3, Van Luxemburgian Army (5,000 men)
Alpbrig 9, "Alpenbergbrigade" (1,000 men)

Total manpower: 6,050 men (excluding logistics personnel)

Listeneisse:

Kingdom of Listeneisse Expeditionary Force (KLEF) (40,300)
KLEF HQ (500)
4th Mech Div (15,500)
1st Armored Bde (5,500)
1st Air Mobile Division (10,500)
1st Regmt, 2nd Artillery Brigade (2,000)
1st Field Artillery Regiment, Missile (1,500)
1st Armored Cavalry Squadron (1,000)
1st Theater Defense SAM Battalion (300)
3rd Tactical Air Defense Battery (300)
1 Royal Marine Battalion (800)
2 Royal Marine Battalion (800)
3 Royal Marine Battalion (800)
Royal Guards Battalion, Knights of the Temple of the Holy Grail (800)

Heavy Equipment
308 MBTs - M1A2
300 IFVs - M2A3
69 IFV ATGM Systems - M3A3
180 HV ATGM Systems - HMMWV/LOSAT
192 LAV Systems - LAV-III
144 SP Howitzers, 155mm - AS90
120 SP Mortars, 120 mm - M1064
54 SP MLRS Systems - M270A1
108 Towed Howitzers, 105mm
36 SP Tactical SAM Systems - Stormer Starstreak SP HVM
36 SP Operational SAM Systems - SLAMRAAM - HMMWV/AMRAAM (AIM-120C)
24 Theater SAM Systems - M983 10-ton truck-mounted PAC-3
36 NBC Recon Vehicles - LM9945
6 RC Minefield Clearing Vehicles - M1 Abrams Panther II
6 Bridgelayers - Wolverine, plus girder and ribbon bridging.
150 Light Transport Helicopter - UH-60L
Misc. recon & command vehicles, ammo carriers, tankers, trucks, ambulances, etc.

Royal Air Command - comprised of Royal Air Force of Listenseisse (RAFL), Royal Navy of Listeneisse (RNL) and Royal Marines of Listeneisse (RML) land-based air assets (10,000)
KLEFAF HQ (600)
KLEFAF OPS (Base & Security Personnel) (1,000)
7 Fighter-Interceptor Squadrons (1,400) - 84 Eurofighter Typhoon
7 Fighter Squadrons (1,400) - 84 F-16D
5 Ground Attack Squadrons (1,000) - 120 AH-64D Longbow
2 Reconnaissance Helicopter Squadrons (400) - 48 OH-58D
4 Heavy Transport Helicopter Squadrons (800) - 48 Heavy Helos
2 Airborne Refueling Squadrons (400) - 24 Tankers
1 Electronic Warfare Squadron (200) - 12 "Kites" ("Growler"-equivalent)
1 Airspace Command Squadron (200) - 12 AWACS
2 Special Operations Squadrons (400) - 24 SpecOps Helos
1 ASW Squadron (200) - 12 ASW Helos
1 Airborne Mine Countermeasures Squadron (200) - 12 AMCM Helos
1 Airsea Rescue Squadron - 12 Rescue/Medivac Helos
3 UAV Ground Attack Squadrons (600) - 120 ATGM UAVs ["Predator"-equivalent]
2 UAV Tactical Reconnaissance Squadrons (400) - 48 Tactical Recon UAVs
1 UAV Strategic Reconnaissance Squadron (200) - 12 Strategic Recon UAVs
1 Light Transport Wing (200) - 48 Small Jet/Turboprop/Prop
Over 260 heavy transport aircraft, and hundreds of other aircraft and helicopters will remain based in Listeneisse supporting the operation.

Total: 50,300 men

Wingarde:
Federal Army Elements (50,220)

4th Infantry Division (17,280)
1,740 x MRP-8 Stalwarts (mainly transport configuration)
2nd Mechanized Division (8,640)
890 x MRP-8 Stalwarts (mainly transport configuration)
80 x RPW-5 Outriders
30 x ADV-2 Defenders
10 x RAP-2 Kammonets
6th Mechanized Division (8,640)
890 x MRP-8 Stalwarts (mainly transport configuration)
80 x RPW-5 Outriders
30 x ADV-2 Defenders
10 x RAP-2 Kammonets
19th Armoured Division (1,680)
120 x KP-3 Guardians
45 x RPW-5 Outriders
30 x PH-7 Vindicators
30 x ADV-2 Defenders
15 x MRP-8 Stalwarts (multiple configurations)
23rd Armoured Division (1,680)
120 x KP-3 Guardians
45 x RPW-5 Outriders
30 x PH-7 Vindicators
30 x ADV-2 Defenders
15 x MRP-8 Stalwarts (multiple configurations)
28th Armoured Division (1,680)
120 x KP-3 Guardians
45 x RPW-5 Outriders
30 x PH-7 Vindicators
30 x ADV-2 Defenders
15 x MRP-8 Stalwarts (multiple configurations)
19th Logistics Division (1,680)
180 x MRP-8 Stalwarts (mainly supply configuration)
30 x RPW-5 Outriders
30 x ADV-2 Defenders
22nd Logistics Division (1,680)
180 x MRP-8 Stalwarts (mainly supply configuration)
30 x RPW-5 Outriders
30 x ADV-2 Defenders
30th Logistics Division (1,680)
180 x MRP-8 Stalwarts (mainly supply configuration)
30 x RPW-5 Outriders
30 x ADV-2 Defenders
34th Logistics Division (1,680)
180 x MRP-8 Stalwarts (mainly supply configuration)
30 x RPW-5 Outriders
30 x ADV-2 Defenders
40th Logistics Division (1,680)
180 x MRP-8 Stalwarts (mainly supply configuration)
30 x RPW-5 Outriders
30 x ADV-2 Defenders
51st Logistics Division (1,680)
180 x MRP-8 Stalwarts (mainly supply configuration)
30 x RPW-5 Outriders
30 x ADV-2 Defenders


Federal Air Force Elements (2,736)

7th Air Group (864)
64 x WF-27 Firebolts
32 x WF-33 Avengers
10th Air Group (864)
64 x WF-27 Firebolts
32 x WF-33 Avengers
17th Assault Wing (216)
20 x WR-6 Champions
4 x WR-4 Sea Rangers
25th Assault Wing (216)
20 x WR-6 Champions
4 x WR-4 Sea Rangers
18th Logistics Wing (288)
18 x WT-19R Skymasters (tanker configuration)
8 x WT-25 Stratolifters
21st Logistics Wing (288)
18 x WT-19R Skymasters (tanker configuration)
8 x WT-25 Stratolifters

Total: 52,856

The Vuhifellian States

3rd Division Forces

-Armed Infantry
*3,000 Riflemen (M8's, M320)
*4,000 Riflemen (M4A1's, M203's)
*500 Snipers
*500 Drivers/Weapons operators
*500 medics
*500 Demolitions Experts
*500 Support Personnel

-Logistics
*450 Cooks/loading/unloading personnel
*2,000 Operations Directors/Movement Coordinators
*500 Mechanics
*1,000 Distributors
*500 Intelligence Officers
*500 Financial Handlers
*1,000 Storage personnel

Vehicles
*140 Warmaster Tanks (Post Stats Later)
*200 Hellcat APC's (Post Stats Later)

Aircraft
--60 F/A-47's
--10 Korsa Dropships

Total: 15,450 men

GRAND TOTAL: 124,656 men

OPFOR:

Spizania: unknown number of Challenger II tanks, probably 80,000 men military personnel,

Total: 80,000

Triancia: I hope he sends a larger force, so we can make up the difference. anyways, he numbered 7,000 men during Battle 1. has had it's ORBAT before.

Total 7,000 men.

GRAND TOTAL: 87,000 men
SHORTAGE ON OPFOR SIDE: 37656 men (more or less)


JUST TO REPEAT IT ONCE AGAIN:
COULD EVERYONE PLEASE POST THEIR EXACT NUMBERS AND POST OBJECTIVES AND STARTING POINTS? THEN WE CAN FINALLY START

OOC: Just saying I'm still here. Unfortunatly, I'm pressed for time these days. I will find some way to post my ORBAT in the next day or so.

OOC: ah, thanks alot.