NationStates Jolt Archive

A resent Earth, E-1946, has come and is near death. Now, I was having some fun in there but to my dismay it slowly started to lose activity after just two days running, and dispite a communist imperialist move, no one cared. So, with that out of the way, here comes my idea:

A Modern World, AMW, was a successful experiment that I technically am part of (Brazil) but due to OOC reasons I have not been able to keep up with any of my resent RPs and have had to cancel two, is a great idea. BUt there is something a little off: 2005. What if the year was 1943 and WW2 has not yet broken out yet? Well, that is my propessition, APW (A Past World).

The idea is that people in APW RolePlay at a certain time zone, and we will slowly progress. A month can be two years.

Most of AMW's rules will still apply, meanning you must be a good RPer and any godmodding is not taken "oh well, try again".


On a personal note I have tried to TG AMW's original poster for permission to sort of "copy" the idea, but for some reason it says the nation does not exist (I have even copy/pasted the name off of the forums), but I will go over to the post and ask there.

This is just a question-suggestion thread, no sign ups seeing how many people might like this idea. There will be alterations, but only a little. Such as the previous World War did not happen, meanning all the way from 1914 (we shall make the date that) anything could happen. Other wars annexations, government changes, anything.

Comments?

I would be most interested in this, and seeing as you're an aquittance, I support the idea even further. I'll keep myself up to date with this thread.

Thanks Mac, means a lot comming from yeah. Anything you have to say, like a comment or a suggestion? 'Cause right now I really am into making this evolve around popular demand with certain features.

Hmmm, perhaps we should be able to change the course of history prior to the Second World War, sorta like AMW. You would also need to design some rules that keep this specific roleplay a bit more organized and a bit more foolproof as opposed to AMW.

I agree. Certainly an example of RPing skills is needed, perferably to show both character and military skills (as the rest pretty much just follows). Also, a strict tech limit in the beginning (not only for military but as in communications and the such).

I would perfer to see that the altered history is looked at by most of the body of players to decide if it is reasonable or not (not like Germany single-handedly taking over France, Poland, most of Russia, and the Netherlands).

This seems very interesting. Would Germany still be the Weimar Republic, or would Hitler be in power?

If you do this, I would like to sign up as the United States.

This seems very interesting. Would Germany still be the Weimar Republic, or would Hitler be in power?

If you do this, I would like to sign up as the United States.


Would depend on whoever played Germany, really. Again, the idea is that you form your history, and the already set players who see if it would be good for the roleplay or not, and accept you or dismiss you accordingly.

Exactly, all the way to 1914. As to the exact technology, should we have it before WW2 broke out, or right afetrwards, or what? Still havn't gotten a clear answer.

I think before would be a good idea to have it a good deal before WWII. It's always more fun that way cause you don't have the monstrous power vacuum of Hitler's Germany, or the United States.

History will not be the same, as only previous super powers before WW1 could be classified as such here, I bet there will be no superpowers, but rivalries on different scales that will eventually lead to superpowers.

Being someone who enjoys alternate history quite alot, I do believe the idea is splendid. However, I do have some questions pertaining to the RP itself:

1. Would this be conducted in the NS forums or in another Independent forum?

2. Has WWI occured? (you mentioned it, but I couldn't quite clarify what you were saying).

3. How will wars, economics, natural disasters, terrorism and other various events be managed?

4. At what date would this RP end at?

I'd love to join. I'm assuming this starts in 1914 and works its way up? Or do we decide what happens in 1914-1942 and go right to 1943?
Either way, I'd like to be either Canada or The United Kingdom.

We, to my understanding, will be starting in 1943, but we will re-write histroy from that date all the way to 1914. WW1 has not happened. Some events, such as the Soviet Union being formed, Germany falling to Hitler, or Italy becomming die-hard fascists like it was in WW2 happening, will all be alright, proven some differences (such as Hitler is not entirely an autocrat, the CCCP does not have a few states, Italy is in the mist of civil confusion, etcetera).

The entire RP will be on Jolt, and at no time may it leave. A master thread will be created for a table of contents.

NPC-invasions will be allowed, given they have some good tastes (follow "Good RolePlayer" Status), and both sides (instead of just military; economy and civil) are effected positively/negatively, depending.

Terrorism mostly didn't exist around this time unless it was covert tatics, and they will be handled like any normal RP.

It shall end around 1970-1975, and from there we may restart, or rename the RP if everyone likes how the world has changed.

It would be interesting to continue this role play after 1975 with the new world order in effect. But, I guess we'll make that decision as a community when the time comes. Hey Truitt, do you want me to just give an example on how the claims and this game would work by filing a claim on this thread? Yes, it will be my normal claim, but we can just use it as an example.

I wouldn't see why. I would like a little mroe feedback before we do start claiming, but go ahead. Be sure in include historical changes, mostly everything your NS frontpage covers, and a few other things of importance.

Oh, and a major one: Example of RP experiance ('A Passion Play' alone is enough)

Meh, nevermind then. I'll just file the first claim when we start claiming, and people will see that. So, regarding smoothing out the wrinkles..hmm...

I would say that some of the most important aspects is that not every role play revolvs around war. There are several diplomatic scenarios and economic scenarios that are all vital if you truly wish to thrive on AMW, simply because we have nothing else to prove your economic wealth on, since we're going by real life statistics, not nationstates statistics.

Yuhp. that is why I said to include a lot of information, it will force you to come up with non-military ideas for your nation. Spain was in civil discontent in WW2, but if planned out good enough it could not have even dropped out of the stability region. Most of that would be political.

Oh, and if some nations want to revolve thier historys around eachother, that would be great. I know if I finally decide on a nation (thinking of the Motherland) I would want China or a neighboring country to be intertwined with my own history. Positive or otherwise. (Just a statement to be used as an example)

I would say that some of the most important aspects is that not every role play revolvs around war.

Indeed, as any RP based soley off constant warfare becomes boring and very redundant (especially if the same person is constantly conquering).

There are several diplomatic scenarios and economic scenarios that are all vital if you truly wish to thrive on AMW, simply because we have nothing else to prove your economic wealth on, since we're going by real life statistics

I do agree that RL economic statistics should be used by participating nations, as NS figures are simply too far-fetched. However, I do want to bring up the point of how will we manage economic change.

For example, if someone is playing DirkaDirkastan and they decide to completely overhaul their economy from a mostly free-market system to complete government control, or if the same guy decides that 'hey, Im going to conscript X number of people into the Army so I can blow up Bobistan,' how will the economic change go about? Will it soley be up to the RPer (usually they'll take the impossible approach and say their economy is doing great)? Or will a mod have to administer it through some standardized system?

Terrorism mostly didn't exist around this time unless it was covert tatics, and they will be handled like any normal RP.

I do realize that terrorism was almost non-exsistant at the beginning time period and my comment on the matter was directed towards the future when terrorism becomes a more dominant tactic (60's and 70's).

Furthermore, when skimming through a wide variety of various forums, I have noticed that certain induviduals have preposed the idea of 'consent is not required from the player whose nation/people are being terrorised.' Although this method is very suseptable to abuse, it could add a certain amount of realism to the RP and shake things up a bit. I was just curious as to what your thoughts were on the matter.

We, to my understanding, will be starting in 1943, but we will re-write histroy from that date all the way to 1914. WW1 has not happened. Some events, such as the Soviet Union being formed, Germany falling to Hitler, or Italy becomming die-hard fascists like it was in WW2 happening, will all be alright, proven some differences (such as Hitler is not entirely an autocrat, the CCCP does not have a few states, Italy is in the mist of civil confusion, etcetera).

So let me get this straight. We are completely re-writing our nation's history from 1914 through 1943, WWI never happened and some Post RL WWI events have occured?

Of course, I'm not sure how well the whole Hitler thing would work since he would have never had the motivation to travel to Germany, had WWI not happened. Of course, I guess his alternate rise to power would be up to the RPer of Germany or Austria.

I would personally like to re-write my history from 1900 because, on a personal level, I'm hoping to play as Norway and Sweden [united], which is vital, because their break up occured in 1905, meaning I would need to be able to re-write the history from that point so that the break-up never occured.

Also, Lachenburg, to answer a point in there. We wouldn't allow all entering nations to roleplay a thriving nation - which would be unrealistic. Indeed, some of us would be first world powers, but not superpowers [such as Norway/Sweden as opposed to a German state; except of course if I'm a better roleplay than the German state], and there would be third world states and the such; and I suspect that most of the 3rd world would still be under colonization, in which this would be interesting because it would give opportunities for some to role play independence and such.

This should truly be an interesting roleplay if we can get good RPers in it.

World war 2 started in 1939.

World war 2 started in 1939.

Yes and? We very well know what year it started [September 1st 1939; ended May 7th for the Western Allies 1945, May 8th for the Soviets 1945, and August 6th (official unconditional surrender announced) for the Japanese 1945]. Please don't spam this thread.

Well, a society or what not to RP in a lot of nations would be great, to eventually turn into a terrorist group would be even more, if not omniscient, to this RP. I may actually do that after I change up the world enough.

As to the changing of complete history, I don't know about that far back. It would also allow people to stop (or start) a lot og things happening. Such Spain never going to war with America and still having the Phillipenes, Cuba, Puerto Rico, and a lot of other islands (am not sure if Cuba was independant now or not?). Maybe if it reasonible, and not a major change (like a massive campain into Russia durring its rebellions or an invasion of Denmark).

I see no reason with them staying united, but some changes would have to be made (like what caused the seperation be delt with).

As a given example: I was planning on Russia actually losing the Russo-Jap war and not having a few claims, one of all being that little island north of the Japanese islands. In reprocusions Korea would be used as a playground for wars that had gone on till 1942 with slight skirmishes. I will hold the majority of Korea (sorta like a little semi-independant commune like Ukraine itself was) with Japan holding portions of the Korean border on the Chinese side and the remainder of the Korean penninsula. Problem: Both me and Japan are bound to be rivals from the start.

This idea, of totally changing something from something that has actually happened would be greatly accepted (And I am planning on putting it into effect). Right now, I think we should all get out the last of our questions and inqueries and then we could work on, with the historical changes, who are more powerful than the rest (stability, military economy; all three scales).

Well, the Spanish-American war began and ended in 1898, so it wouldn't be affected by the rule. But, I think we would review the changed history, much like is done on AMW, and if it's changed too much we'll tell the person to review it. Of course, this would also be done once we have nations already registered, since there would be a sort of history created that new players would have to follow more or less.

We could even write up an entire timeline now that I think of it, maybe whip out ol' Paint and work on an economic, militaristic, and social graph. But that'll make things too complicated...

I think we should go ahead and start comming up with ideas for eachother's history and lay out. As a foot note: Military is to be done last, I don't want someone jumping in with fascist imperialism against muslims or what not.

Truitt you wanna have the same countrys as before? You will still have been independent from the revolution but also be a communist like our former agreement stated. Then we could slowly become less extreme. I personally plan to rewrite the Revlution so that trotsky and kerensky take power.

The way I was planning to have Norway and Sweden work was that in 1905 Norway petitioned to the Storting for independence, but the Storting refused [as opposed to their approval], launching a three or four day uprising throughout Oslo, Hammerfest and Narvik. These riots are put down by hastily put together Swedish military units, and from 1905-1915 there was a great assimilation program between Norway and Sweden, although they never really closed the wounds. In 1916, to appease Norwegian paramilitaries, the Storting appoints Prince Carl of Denmark as constitutional monarch of both Norway and Sweden [historically he was just king of Norway], taking the name of Haakon VII. Haakov VII, under the eyes of the Storting, begins a militarization and economical expansionist program by 1920, and by 1942 [which I guess is when we're starting this roleplay] the Kingdom would have around twenty-six infantry divisions [ca. 130,000 frontline infantry and 208,000 logistical personnel], although it wouldn't have either an airforce or an armored branch. Nonetheless, it would have a pretty amazing navy for Norway, which Haakon would put his entire efforts on, including three dreadnoughts [most likely designed by Norwegian engineers], thirty-six destroyers, six cruisers, three battlecruisers and one pocket-battleship, and much more in the way of logistics shipping [the exact details would have to be hammered out].

I would also roleplay in a more economical faction, setting up negotiations with Japan, Germany, France, the United Kingdom, Portugal, Spain, and the United States, and the Soviet Union in particular.

Of course there would be acts of war, but that would be between me and the Soviet Union diplomatic wise [you can only guess the target!]. So, that's a brief outline of how I envision the Kingdom of Norway and Sweden.

Macabees TG me about Finland. We can work something out.

Hm, interesting. I got two nations in mind, Norway or Lithuania (if I remember correctly, Lithuania is the most northern of the Baltic States).

Oh, and mind if as a first step (since this is comming as a final decision, didn't think it would come this far) you allow me a border with Norway (like Finland did in reality in ~1912)

Phil., I actually have plans for a Soviet Union gone supah sowahr (not even having a chance of pure communism, Lenin would have never gained power to begin with and Marx would have won dramatically over the Tsars because of Japanese offencives). Actually, I would like to see an active Japan to get involved in first-hand political RP of religious nut-jobs and revoltion wanna-be politicans.

Macabees TG me about Finland. We can work something out.


Well, I wouldn't need to win in Finland, but a nice Finish - Norwegian/Swedish War wouldn't be too bad either, even if it juts meant border advances and such, and small territorial concessions in terms of meters, not kilometers. Would make an interesting long lasting grudge and such.

Ok so Truitt your takeing the CCCP? Well I dont know what to take now...

As I always love to Role-Play the Benelux countries, I would take on the role of the Netherlands in this RP. The reforms are as follows (Note: several areas do involve events before 1900, but these actions are essintial to the development of the Netherlands).

1890: Despite gaining a Grand Duke of its own, Queen Wilhelmina declares herself the Grand Duke of Luxembourg and persues fully absorbing the small Duchy under Dutch control. Riots ensue by independent Luxembourgian Factions, but are put down quickly by Dutch supported military units. To keep the area under control, a vigourous propoganda campaign ensues.

1900: A Liberal Coalition government gains control of Parliment and institues a variety of massive economic reforms, pushing The Netherlands into a lazziez-faire based economic system. All state-owned industries are privatized, Health-care and Public Works are placed under a Private-Public Partnerships, Welfare is made a strictly private manner and a flat-tax is initiated.

1915: Growing tensions between Parliment and Queen Wilhelmina erupt into a short Civil Conflict, in which Monarchist support forces are hastily put down by supporters of Parliment and Queen Wilhelmina is exiled to Denmark. The Federal Republic of Holland is proclaimed and elections for a new presidental office are setup for early 1916.

1916: Luxembourgian Businessman and Lawyer, Jean-Louis Schiltz, is elected President of the Federal Republic. Immedeately begins to work with Parliment to further develop and modernize the Dutch East Indies, so as to extract a greater amount of reasources in the area.

1921: President Schiltz is re-elected in the 1921 presidential election after 5 years of solid economic growth and stable peace.

1935: Parliment grants partial autonomy to the Dutch East Indies and the Dutch Antilles, allowing both colonies to form their own government assemblies. An increasingly conservative public protests the action but is ignored by Parliment.

1936: The United Conservative Coalition gains a majority in Parliment and President Schiltz ends his 4-term reign, when he is defeated by the very charismatic Conservative candidate Alex Klaggard. A growing sense of nationalism emerges among the Dutch people.

1943: After winning a land-slide victory in the 1941 elections, President Klaggard begins to manipulate the Dutch Government, giving the executive branches more power and leaving Parliment crippled.

Sounds fine to me, you didn't twist it too much before 1900 so...acceptible.

Phil., how about Turkmenistan-Uzbekistan, or some other Soviet-influenced nation? I wouldn't you being Japan, but that means we would be sworn enemies from the start. Hell, be Colombia, they had the strongest economy (IRL) in South America during 1943, and I am sure you could make differences.

I want a nation I know the History of. Would you mind if the Republicans won the SPanish Civil War and Franco and his cronies were executed? If so then my Friend Alejandro Lerroux could be of very great assistance to the Soviets in the west.

The history is up to yours, just along you make it reasonible. I will off today and Friday, moving (finally). Will be back, hopefully, Saturday, then we can start this.

I want a nation I know the History of. Would you mind if the Republicans won the SPanish Civil War and Franco and his cronies were executed? If so then my Friend Alejandro Lerroux could be of very great assistance to the Soviets in the west.

Depends. If Italy and Germany still sent support to France there's no chance the Republicans would have won that war, so it's a question of how realistic you make the war. That would take quite a bit of work since you would have to specify what happened to Moya and Serrano, the original spearheads of the Nationalistic rise [Franco really didn't become a contender for Spanish rule until their 'mysterious' deaths, which many attribute to Franco], and how exactly Franco lost, since when the Army of Africa crosses most of Andalucia and Extremadura fall to the Moroccon infantry [the massacre at Badajoz].

Also, the Falange would still exist, so there would still be that fascist right trying to overthrow the communist/socialist/anarchist left, since the Falange was not founded by Franco, but by Jose Antonio Primo de Rivera ten to twenty years prior to the Civil War.

Finally, you're not going to have Valle de los Caidos!!! Such a beautiful piece of architecture deserves to still exist! Bah!

This is the biggest problem concerning this roleplay, and it's that the Second World War never happened. However, the stock market crash was due to happen, and if it didn't happen then it would have happened at a later date [indeed, it almost happened in the 70s and 80s]. The Second World War was the single largest factor on why any nation escaped from the Depression, and so, there are little to none economically sound nations on here right now, including Germany, because Hitler not rising to power would have meant that Germany never began those vast armament projects that fueled their economy so well, and if Mussolini never came to power [there's no Italian player, but that might be his decision], that means that Italy never escaped from the depression.

So, the list of developed, but still economically unstable nations remains at:

United States of America
Great Britain
France
Germany
Norway and Sweden
Japan
Italy
Yugoslavia
Argentina


List of undeveloped nations:

Finland
Soviet Union
Spain
Romania
Bulgaria
Poland
Greece
Hungary
Austria
Denmark
Mexico
All Central American nations
Chile
Brazil
Paraguay
Peru
Colombia
Venezuela
Uruguay

How did Yugoslavia and Argentina get on the developed list?
I always thought they were just Historically Poor folks.
well, forget it.

I'll take Yugoslavia

Yugoslavia was historically one of the wealthiest nations in Europe after the First World War and before the German invasion in 1941. Argentina was extremely wealthy prior to the Argentine depression in the 50s.

True, totally forgot about that. Everyone would have problems unless someone started a World War, but none-the-less Russia was the same until they were invaded since the Soviet Union was being established.

I am sure me (CCCP) and Japan would be fairly economically sound, not stable, but sound, being that we constantly produce arms in a Cold War-like scenario with Korea as our playground. I am, though, figuring on a non-agressive state.

So, I guess, everyone start posting here your requests. Include the changes, perferably starting around 1914 (excluding any WW1 happenings), but can back farther around 1900, and change your history. It can be the same, or it can be totally different. I'll post mine more in-depth once I get back from the move.

OCC: Bump for any others who may be interested.

For Japan, it depends, since it assumes that the Japanese player would be agressive against her neighbors, since it was that which propelled Japanese industry, and consequently the Japanese market, foward. So, if Japan hopes to be anywhere near stable it would have to follow a relatively agressive foreign policy, and it would have to invade China to begin with.

As for the Soviet Union, it was never really stable. In the 20s the Ukraine suffered a massive famine, costing the lives of at least twenty million, and that underscores the poor industrial and economical infrastructure within the Soviet Union. I would say that the Soviet Union did not become an industrial powerhouse until 1940, when it was obvious Germany would not stop, and consequently in 1941 Stalin released his order to revamp the Soviet Army. But again, that would assume an agressive Germany.

So until Japan's foreign policy is detailed, and Germany's is also, we can't really say.

Yeah, I got bored while I was waiting for my comp. to find the network and created a brief history with a bit of detail from 1919 (Soviet-Polish War) to 1940 (Third Russo-Jap War) which has constant warfare between Japan and Russia, mostly skirmishes. I am sure the industry would be fair in both nations, since I made Japanese imperialism in China a leading cause of Soviet expansion into the Koreas.

Further bump, I will post my brief history as soon as I get a few more comments.

BUMP for the night. For anyone that might feel like a Japanese Emperor, here is an idea of what I've cooked up. I know it is mostly military, but it gives an idea of the detail needed to inform us of the up-to-date data on every nation.


The Russo-Polish War of 1919 was the first of two. The first was a major attack on the Soviet-held Prussian Province. The Soviets sent their main army into Prussia and Poland as defence, and recruited massively Belarusian troops. However, seeing opportunity, Japanese Imperial Soldiers attacked the Soviets in Northern Korea. Forced with two conflicts, Korea was mroe important and the bulk of the army (some 70% of the highly trainned soldiers) was sent to Korea to fight for defence. Poland started to beat the Red Army on the Prussian front and eventually all of Prussia was lost, expecially when the second Red-Black War (Series of wars for Korea between Russia and Japan) was finished by Soviet Baltic fleets entering the Sea of Japan.

The Russo-Polish War of 1921 was the second Polish war for the Soviets. This started with an other Polish invasion, but this of Soviet-influenced Latvia. Without being able to see a pro-Communist state fall to an other ideology, the Red Army attacked Poland, without offically declairing war or asking for Latvian permission. The war lasted for some two years with an ending with the Polish losing Prussia and their entire Baltic Sea coastline. No treaty was written up except a peace treaty and an annexation by the Soviet Union to make the Polish-taken coastline "West Prussia".

After the Russo-Polish War of 1921, in 1923, Japanese Manchurian-based soldiers attacked Manchurian Soviet claims in efforts to destroy the Soviet ground lines. It succeeded, even with the Baltic and Artic Fleets being deployed to the Korean Penninsula and the bulk of the Red Army. The Third and final to date Red-Black War had started with the Russians having Korea cut from their land lines, and shipping lanes were heavily threatend. Japan eventually, with a greater economic capasity, won over the Soviets who were also battling revolting West Prussians, pro-Pole East Prussians, Belarusians and Ukrainese peasants against troop conscription, and finally a democratic uprising in Uzbekistan.

The Third Red-Back War lasted until 1930, seven years. The Soviets kept on attacking the now Japanese-dominated Korean and Chinese holdings agressively with their only force against the Japanese, their navy. This however soon retreated to defencive manuvers as the Imperial Army and Navy attempted a failed invasion of the Kurschek Province of Russia Prime in 1926. With war materials gone (Manchuria and Korea held the metals needed for the war machine) Uzbekistan eventually created an independant Democratic Republic but was completely surrounded by the Soviet Union and was soon placed under Economic Embargo, without allowing any forgein trade. The free market eventually crashed and Uzbekistan errupted into civil war as the Russians slowly gained stability in Ukraine and Belarus. The Prussias were to constantly be a problem until Uzbekistan's eventual destruction at the end of the Third Red-Black War for fears of their own fait.

With a peace treaty being signed with Japan controlling all of former-Soviet claims below Russia Prime, the Soviet Union thought it to be doomed if the Japanese attacked due to instability in Turkmenistan, who like Uzbekistan, was demanding freedom, and the Prussians slowly edging torwards revolution. With Ukrainese and Belarusian independant troops both Prussias were forcefully silenced, without Premier Lenin's consent, by a massive slaughter of about 80% of the total population. Unseen by economically depressed nations, they got away with it. Uzbekistan, trying to form a democratic society, was brought down by generals who did not care for Lenin, but did not belive in "elected peoples" due to corruptible possibilities. Uzbekistan's economy eventually callapsed and its popultion of some 10 million nearly, all together, died due to chaos, starvation, and border closing along Soviet borders. Uzbekistan was labeled a "Chaotic, Barbarian, Hostile, and Anarchist Region" by the end of the Third Red-Black War.

Russia slowly gained up an industrial powerhouse between 1930 and 1939, Lenin still in power, but barely (due to sickness), working on making the peasants happy by providing more services and creating an industrial platform to evolve the tank and vessel industries, booming production of newer tanks and ships. Aircraft was becomming used, primarily as fighters (to counter Japanese fighters and Uzbek-used fighters), with little bombers. In 1939, with a might of industry at its dispossal, one of Lenin's last commands was an all-out, 99% of Soviet Forces, to invade the Manchurian and Korean Regions. The invasion lasted only for two years, until in 1941, fearful Japanese troops seeing this new "Siouv," or "Thunder" in Russian, comming oppon them retreated to the original Japanese Manchurian holdings before the Second Red-Black War and retreated off of the Korean penninsula all together. With the economy higher than most (but still subject to junk), and matchible to Japan's, the only thing they lacked was sea dominance, as naval superiority was not the top of Lenin's mind. Due to this, a forced invasion of the South Eastern tip of Korea was established and Korean-conscripted men by the Soviets soon stopped the Japanese at Seoul. A peace was signed as a Russian fleet of submarines, nicknamed SAV-Qs by the Russian Admirels, attacked Tokyo Harbor and destroyed 90% of the month's imports and exports within two days' worth of a suicide mission, staying in Tokyo Harbor until bombers armed with depth charges drove them out onto certain death by a waiting Japanese fleet. This tragic loss caused Russia now, not having any submergible fleet left, to sign a peace treaty (as Japan was working torwards a more powerful submarine fleet, and would surely lose that race in the long run). The Japanese quickly signed with the claims made by the Korean-conscripted army due to their economy near breaking due to previous trade disbalances by the same submarine fleet in Tokyo Harbor.

Since then about 900-1,000 Uzbeks die every day due to their forced isolation, without the rest of the Union knowing (news is never released, those on patrol say nothing to their families) which means no one in the world knows but a few. Lenin eventually died of sickness just before he could sign the peace treaty of the Fourth Red-Black War, and his successor is a different person never seen on the political scene except that he was the leader of the Politika Uprisings in Prussia. Iosif Valin. He has continued to push Russia into civil advance as Lenin was doing and redirected the Red Army's funds into healthcare, infrastructure, and the development of the SAV-Q Fleet, which stay dormant in under-water bunks to stay hidden. International release says only a few surface ships exist, and the same applies to aircraft; when in reality the industrial surplus and demand created was used to build heavy bombers and extremely small fighters, no inbetweens. Jew engine technology is being researched constantly with promising results and submarines now have guided torpedoes, althoguh crude and wired, and are also faster than popular German "Unterseeboots" in hopes to outrun and surprise an enemy.

Even to this day, Japan and Russia dispute the territorial area in Seoul and surrounding cities, which may cause an other Red-Black War, with Russia claiming that all of Seoul was theirs, and Japan claimming half of Seoul and across was theirs, meanning Japan would gain all of Southern Korea. To add, Russian coup d'Etas around the world (namely China, Iran, Iraq, Turkey, Romania, and Afgahnistan) and Japanese imperialism into China to form a greater stronghold for cheaper labor has caused more and mroe tensions between the nations. The Russians fear an invasion of the Motherland, as attempted long ago, and the Japanese fear a hidden Russian Secret Weapon or Ally.

This is a very interesting idea, and I might be interested in getting involved (in a smallish way, at least to begin with). For those who have never encountered me before, I am involved with AMW and so am able to appreciate the basic philosophy behind the plan.

Might I enquire further about the situation in China? I notice references to Soviet and Japanese involvement, but are regional warlords still active? I would potentially be interested in playing as one of those (possibly a pro-Japanese one or even a semi-Japanese puppet) since it fits in with my past history of playing various oriental-style nations...

This is a very interesting idea, and I might be interested in getting involved (in a smallish way, at least to begin with). For those who have never encountered me before, I am involved with AMW and so am able to appreciate the basic philosophy behind the plan.

Might I enquire further about the situation in China? I notice references to Soviet and Japanese involvement, but are regional warlords still active? I would potentially be interested in playing as one of those (possibly a pro-Japanese one or even a semi-Japanese puppet) since it fits in with my past history of playing various oriental-style nations...


Well, you obviously would be the one best fit to understand Chinese politics during this era, so I think that whatever you may decide to do most likely will be allowed, since again, you have the better understanding of China than any of us.

Well, I would not mind China comming in, would be nice. I have it set up that Japan's expansion in controlling your coastline was the stimulant for the continuation of the failed Russo-Jap War on the Russian part, but we can work around that if you wouldn't mind. What do you have in mind?

Truitt, I have a little problem with Lenin continuing his life past 1924. Medically, it would have been impossible for him to do so, and had he lived past 1924 the Soviet Union would have been radically different, especially as opposed to what you wrote. I have to read that more in depth later on, but I'll give you a better explenation, and how it would most likely turned out had Lenin survived until 1940.

It probably would have been very different, you are right. I just wrote that up being bored, didn't double check any numbers or consider that. It will radically be changed since we now have a China.

It seems I've caused a bit of a couple of misunderstandings here...
Firstly, I'm not a great expert on China, being more familiar with Japan (O&I is a pseudo-Japanese state after all)
Secondly, I wasn't proposing to play as the whole of unoccupied China, which frankly is probably beyond my abilities (I dislike playing large countries). However, early twentieth century China was often fairly disunited, with quasi-independent provincial warlords, Chinese communist enclaves, Uighur-Turkish statelets and of course Japanese puppet states all enjoying varying degrees of semi independence from the official nationalist regime at Nanking...so I reckoned I could either play one of these provincial warlords, or alternatively a Japanese-influenced state in China (in addition to Manchukuo, the Japanese attempted to set up a north China puppet in 1935 and were also involved in similar efforts in inner Mongolia).

So, on to ideas...aside from Manchuria, Japanese influence in China was initially concentrated in two provinces- Fukien, which lies opposite Japanese occupied Taiwan, and Shantung, where the former German base at Tsingtao was captured by Japan in 1914. Now based on Japanese practice elsewhere, it is not unthinkable that a pro-Japanese state similar to Manchukuo might have emerged in either of these two places; although this never happened IRL, the Chinese 19th Army did attempt to break away from central control in Fukien in 1933, whilst in Shantung the Japanese supported the local warlord in his efforts to resist central control. My suggestion is simply for me to develop some sort of semi-independent entity in one of these two areas, a state that will (like Manchukuo) have a strong Japanese influence. Of course I can easily modify things to suit existing concepts etc, so please let me know about any ideas...

I would like to RP as germany please

1907: Germany invades Czechoslovakia

1908: Germany annexes Czechoslovakia

1915: Austria cedes a strip of Eastern Hungary to Germany

1919: Germany invades Romania
[3 Months later]: Germany annexes Romania

1920: Germany's economy soars thanks to Romanian oil. The main oil refineries are in Hildenburg, the newly created center of industry in the empire

1923: Norway and Germany create the North Sea Trade Organization

1926: Norway and Germany invade Denmark

[7 Months later]: Germany annexes the Jutland Peninsula, Norway takes the Islands.

1932: Kaiser Wilhelm II dies. Kaiser Fredrich IV crowned.

1933: Kaiser Fredrich IV marries [Princess of Norway] in a small ceremony in Olso

1934: Germany purchases the west coast of Bulgaria from the country

1938: Germany begins to modernize the military into a fully mechenized outfit

I have a lot of problems with this German claim, and I hope that these can be worked out. For one, it isn't a tad bit realistic that Germany would be able to purchase a foreign capital, much less the capital of Poland, when Russia isn't exactly friendly with the Prussians, especially how Wilhelm II turned his back on Nicholas II.

This also brings up a point with Russia. How did the Communist revolution begin with no First World War? I mean, there's no war to stimulate the rise in St. Peterburg, and there's no war to push the peasants and workers to rebel. In fact, with the current situation it's more accurate that Nicholas II would have survived the throne past 1920.

This also brings up a point with Russia. How did the Communist revolution begin with no First World War? I mean, there's no war to stimulate the rise in St. Peterburg, and there's no war to push the peasants and workers to rebel. In fact, with the current situation it's more accurate that Nicholas II would have survived the throne past 1920.

I don't know. Even though Russia would have not sustained the hardships brought upon by WWI, the state of its work conditions, the grossly un-equal distribution of land and wide-spread poverty could have instigated large Socialist uprisings across the country, uprisings that if not quickly put down, could wield the capability of overthrowing the Russian Monarchy. However, Lenin would probably not have taken part in the Revolution (as he would have still been kept in Switzerland) and the Socialist take-over would not occur as quickly as it did in RL, but it is still somewhat plausible.

Of course, this only applies if the Czar does not take any action to improve Labour Conditions or re-distribute more land among the lower-classes...

I have a lot of problems with this German claim, and I hope that these can be worked out. For one, it isn't a tad bit realistic that Germany would be able to purchase a foreign capital, much less the capital of Poland, when Russia isn't exactly friendly with the Prussians, especially how Wilhelm II turned his back on Nicholas II.

This also brings up a point with Russia. How did the Communist revolution begin with no First World War? I mean, there's no war to stimulate the rise in St. Peterburg, and there's no war to push the peasants and workers to rebel. In fact, with the current situation it's more accurate that Nicholas II would have survived the throne past 1920.


i may edit the history depending on what the russians and everyone else write.

Oh, and the germans gave insane amounts of money for Warsaw

Alright Truitt I've succumb and will take Spain.

History
1902: King Alfonso XIII turns 16, Regency ends

1904: Creates the position of Peoples Prince*

1905: Pablo Iglesias elected by the people to be the first Peoples Prince

1906: Alfonso Marries Princess Victoria of Battenberg

1909: Constitution** ratified, Bill of Rights included

1910: Universal sufferage granted for those 25 and over

1911: Pablo creates the Public School System of Spain

1915: Alfonso and Pablo agree to a unicameral legislature

1917: Minimum wage created

1919: Massive industrialization begins

1920: Creation of Air Force

1921: Defeat at Annual

1923: Navy revamped with 4 Pocket Battleships

1925: Prince Pablo Iglesias dies, Alejandro Lerroux elected to Peoples Prince, Republic of the Rift defeated

1926: Francisco Franco, youngest General in Spain/Ramon Franco makes trans-atlantic flight

1927: Suffrage lowered to 18 years of age

1931: Basque Country and Catalonia recieve semi-Autonomy

1932: Ramon Franco elected to Cortes Generales for Esquerra Republicana

1935: HRH Juan Carlos marries Maria Mercedes Borbon y Orleans

1935: Francisco Franco attempts a coup against the mainly left-wing govenrment but fails, Francisco Franco is executed and his allies sent into exile

1936: Ramon Franco made President of Esquerra Republicana

1941: Death of King Alfonso XIII, Coronation of Juan Carlos I

*Peoples Prince- A position like Prime Minister except for life; elected by the people

**Constitution- The King and Peoples Prince act as the executive branch with the Cortes generales acting as the legislative; same rights as the american constitution

bump

However, the stock market crash was due to happen, and if it didn't happen then it would have happened at a later date [indeed, it almost happened in the 70s and 80s].

I don't think that is neccisarily true. Today, most economists generally attribute the Great Depression to several factors, including: poor monetary policies of the United States, high deflation, large amounts of speculation and heavy borrowing by investors, a decrease in international trade and a raising of tariffs among most western nations; factors that could all be changed by governments through better policies and occasionally more state involvement in economic affairs.

Of course, it would be unlikely that any industrialized nation would persue reforms that would have prevented a recession of this magnitude, but nonetheless, I think its still plausible to a certain extent. For example, it would not be hard for a player of the United States to expand the supply of the dollar instead of contracting it, a factor that would have taken much of the severity out of the ensuing crisis. Furthermore, governments could easily lower tariffs (especially in nations with a very free-market economy).

So yes, the the Great Depression would still have occured, but has the potential to be much less severe in the RP.

BUMP

Truitt, where is joo?!

Eh, couldn't get on last night.

The hardships brought by the Russo-Jap War (first Red-Black War, which there might not be more since China wants otherwise) was ridiculous and caused Marx to go ahead and eventually Lenin came in.

Like I said, I was a little sketchy when I wrote up that history but I want a good rival....

I don't think that is neccisarily true. Today, most economists generally attribute the Great Depression to several factors, including: poor monetary policies of the United States, high deflation, large amounts of speculation and heavy borrowing by investors, a decrease in international trade and a raising of tariffs among most western nations; factors that could all be changed by governments through better policies and occasionally more state involvement in economic affairs.


Even more reason that it was due to happen, since it would be largely impossible for a U.S. player to make such revolutionary sweeps in economic policy that would allow them to curtail the depression.

The fact that there will be always be large amounts of speculation also makes it obvious that the depression was due to happen. There is large amounts of speculation even today, however, there are checks to avoid large amounts of money being put into the stock market without actual market value.

It is to say, before the 1940s, one could put money into the stock market without actually backing it with money. Meaning, one would basically take a loan out of the stock market. So, technically, the market could be worth 9 trillion USD [randomg number], but in reality it could have been worth 10 billion [random number]. This couldn't necessarilly been curtailed without the experience of the depression, which I think should happen anyways because it's the largest force that made the modern market.


Of course, it would be unlikely that any industrialized nation would persue reforms that would have prevented a recession of this magnitude, but nonetheless, I think its still plausible to a certain extent. For example, it would not be hard for a player of the United States to expand the supply of the dollar instead of contracting it, a factor that would have taken much of the severity out of the ensuing crisis. Furthermore, governments could easily lower tariffs (especially in nations with a very free-market economy).

Unfortunately, the Soviet Union already plans to be largely belligerent in this RP, while so does Japan and most likely, so does Germany. It is to say, no government is willing to decrease tarriffs, because we're bound to have a multitude of wars in this role play. I for one, even as the Kingdom of Norway and Sweden to plan for a bit of expansion myself, and most likely will go to war with the Soviet Union, since I think he plans to invade me.

What this does mean, however, is that regardless of the severity of the stock market crash and the depression, we're more likely to get out of it faster, since we're more likely to begin wars quicker.

I assume that my history is alright? Hope you enjoy the new position i created. :D

Na, just don't go past Prussia and I'll be fine. Middle East is more than likely my goal...need oil (beyond the Caspian). Down with Persia! [Thinks for a moment and decides to stay against just one enemy]

Truitt, what I suggest is the following.

Nicholas II never wanted to be Czar, in fact, when Alexander III died Nicholas II broke down and cried that he wasn't ready to rule. His policies within Russia were incredibly retrogressive, with him building Byzantine archetecture in Moscow and St. Petersburg, and with him increasingly turning to Moscow to be the center of Russia.

Consequently, perhaps you should have Nicholas II deciding to eliminate the Emancipation of the Serfs [1863], and replace it with much more constricting laws when it comes to serfs, allowing Trotsky to reign in a peasant revolt. It's a bit farfetched, but Trotky was the father of the Red Army, and one of the fathers of the Revolution.

You could then have a Soviet Union led by Trotsky and around 1925 [say the revolution started in 1921] have Trotsky pressure Switzerland and Germany for the return of Lenin, who was a clandestine partner with Trotsky. Lenin comes, dies in 1926, and Trotsky who's already in place remains in power, and Stalin never comes to power, but remains a high ranking Soviet official.

You could then just do what the Soviets were good at, and have Stalin and his right hand team assassinated.

still no comments on my history! i thought my new position (Peoples Prince) would get some comments...guess i overestimated peoples sense of humor...

Alright Truitt I've succumb and will take Spain.

History
1902: King Alfonso XIII turns 16, Regency ends


Alfonso XII ruled well until 1912.


1920: Creation of Air Force


Spain wouldn't have the money to create an airforce so early. I suggest you move this up to 1930. Without the First World War Spain would be a in a worse economical quagmire than it really was; the First World War was a huge economic boost to Spain.


1923: Navy revamped with 6 Battleships and an Aircraft Carrier


No. Spain would never build an aircraft carrier; it barely has the money to feed her people [at this time]. Six battleships is wayyy too much. I suggest two or three pocket battleships, but that's it...and purchased from either the USA, UK or Germany. Spain didn't have the infrastructure at the time to that.


1931: Basque Country and Catalonia recieve semi-Autonomy


As a Spaniard, no, but as a historian, yes. The liberal government of Spain would do this.


1935: HRH Juan Carlos marries Maria Mercedes Borbon y Orleans


You should have Juan Carlos marry the woman he really married, Reina Sophia, daughter of the King of Greece.

[/quote]
1941: Death of King Alfonso XIII, Coronation of Juan Carlos I
[/quote]

Alfonso XIII should die more around 1960.

Juan Carlos' wife is who it sys he married on wiki also 1941 is when it says alfonso dies
i know its early but hey! besides lerroux will die in 46 and that will be the last of the people who were around before the reforms...also wiki says ramon franco joined the airforce in 1920...and i was just throwing numbers out there for the battleships and such as spains navy is a disgrace in the early 1900's ill edit it accordingly...oh and im not all for the autonomy of basque and catalonia but i know its what the liberal government did to keep them in good standing so i did it

I'd be interested in taking China. If it is already taken, I fully understand and wish this RP well.

I'd be interested in taking China. If it is already taken, I fully understand and wish this RP well.

There's one person who wants to play part of China, which is semi-historical. You could be a growing Communist faction/clan in China, and role play to unify the country. It would be interesting.

meh hes looking for the unified china...im pretty sure that the guy who wants the clan can play japan cus he said he likes them

There's one person who wants to play part of China, which is semi-historical. You could be a growing Communist faction/clan in China, and role play to unify the country. It would be interesting.

I was planning to RP a China with an Imperial Dynasty- as in E20, I believe you may be familiar with my RP as an modernized Imperial China in E20.

Itd be interesting if China emerged as an industrial giant.

I think that for something based off AMW, a Chinese industrial behemoth in the 1940s would be a bit farfetched considering the fact that throughout the 30s and the 40s the Chinese were too busy staving off a Communist revolution, which came anyways in the late 40s. I personally don't think a Chinese dynasty would be able to survive, and at the same time put enough resources to safely rival the US, Japan or Germany in industrial capacity.

I think that for something based off AMW, a Chinese industrial behemoth in the 1940s would be a bit farfetched considering the fact that throughout the 30s and the 40s the Chinese were too busy staving off a Communist revolution, which came anyways in the late 40s. I personally don't think a Chinese dynasty would be able to survive, and at the same time put enough resources to safely rival the US, Japan or Germany in industrial capacity.

Hmm... Do you remember the Boxer Rebellion in E20? My China emerged victorious, got rid of the foreigners, then engaged in massive modernization efforts and reforms that is still ongoing by 1924 (the year E20 is at now).

I could solve the communist and political discontent by introducing local level democracy while allowing the Imperial Family to remain in power. This would be similiar to Britain's and USA's government system, except that there is no overriding the Chinese Emperor's final decision (or veto in the case of democractically elected laws).

Also, wasn't Japan a dynasty of sorts with its Emperor and such, yet it was able to industrialize and such?

But Japan didn't have underlying social problems between nationalists and communists. China was in a state of civil war until 1937, when they banded together against the Japanese. Then they the civil war continued in 1946.

But Japan didn't have underlying social problems between nationalists and communists. China was in a state of civil war until 1937, when they banded together against the Japanese. Then they the civil war continued in 1946.

Yeah- that was in RL history. In this alternate history as Truitt proposed, I can rewrite history to a victorious China in Boxer Rebellion like in E20. Then after the Boxer Rebellion, reforms and politics attempt to resolve the problems of the social issues.

Hm, maybe. I was also thinking of a different Soviet Union, and if that, of a Tsarist Union but not as big, but more industrial strength

Thoughts?

Since Sharina has expressed an interest in China, I'd be happy to come to some accomodation.

meh hes looking for the unified china...im pretty sure that the guy who wants the clan can play japan cus he said he likes them

I don't think it would be a good idea for me to play the sort of Japan that you want to see for a number of reasons. Firstly, Japan is going to be very important to Russia/Soviet Union, and I'm not sure I want something that high profile at this stage. Secondly, I am not really suited to playing the sort of Japan that would probbaly exist in 1943, that is to say a post-Meiji imperial regime dominated by Choshu and Satsuma militarists.

***

To recap, the strong imperial China Sharina would like to play doesn't really leave any space for either the type of regime I would like to play, or indeed for a serious Japanese presence on mainland Asia.

Now to throw a radical idea into the fold- suggest Japan was driven out of China by a resurgent Imperial regime, leading to a possible revolution in japan? That would be closer to the type of Japan I might be interested in playing, though of course it would change existing ideas massively...

sounds good to me!

Hm, maybe. I was also thinking of a different Soviet Union, and if that, of a Tsarist Union but not as big, but more industrial strength

Thoughts?

Go for it. After all, I'm sure many of us have wondered what Russia would have been like had it not gone through a Bolshevik Revolution.

Since Sharina has expressed an interest in China, I'd be happy to come to some accomodation.



I don't think it would be a good idea for me to play the sort of Japan that you want to see for a number of reasons. Firstly, Japan is going to be very important to Russia/Soviet Union, and I'm not sure I want something that high profile at this stage. Secondly, I am not really suited to playing the sort of Japan that would probbaly exist in 1943, that is to say a post-Meiji imperial regime dominated by Choshu and Satsuma militarists.

***

To recap, the strong imperial China Sharina would like to play doesn't really leave any space for either the type of regime I would like to play, or indeed for a serious Japanese presence on mainland Asia.

Now to throw a radical idea into the fold- suggest Japan was driven out of China by a resurgent Imperial regime, leading to a possible revolution in japan? That would be closer to the type of Japan I might be interested in playing, though of course it would change existing ideas massively...

That'd be interesting- a revolutionary Japan. Thus, you'll be able to RP Japan as you want Japan to be / develop according to your ideals.

My only problem with Truitts idea is that I'd be the vanguard of Socialism in the world instead of huge Russia...oh well...

A full history of Norway-Sweden:

In 1814 Denmark-Norway was defeated in the Napoleonic wars and the king was forced to cede Norway to the king of Sweden in the Treaty of Kiel (January 14). Owing to an omission in the treaty, the Norwegian dependencies Iceland, Greenland and the Faroe Islands were kept by Denmark. In an attempt to retain control over Norway despite the treaty, the Viceroy and hereditary prince of Denmark-Norway encouraged representatives of various social and political factions to gather at Eidsvoll to declare independence, adopt a constitution and elect hereditary prince Christian Frederik as king. Sweden responded later the same year by waging war on Norway. In the peace negotiations, Christian Frederik agreed to relinquish claims to the Norwegian throne and return to Denmark if Sweden would accept the democratic Norwegian constitution and a loose personal union. The Norwegian parliament (Stortinget) then elected the Swedish king as king of Norway on November 4, 1814.

The union was peacefully kept until around 1890 when Norwegian activitist continued to push for greater autonomy leading to full independence. In 1905 the Swedish Storting met and voted no [OOC: Instead of yes] on the independence of Norway, sending Norway into flames. Nonetheless, the short lived rebellions in Narvik and Hammerfest, mostly done by sailors in the Norwegian navy, was put down by quick deployments of the Swedish infantry, and by 1906 Norway was again supressed, although sporadic engagements continued until well late 1908.

In 1909 the Swedish Storting decided to put Haarkon IV, Prince of Denmark, as the elected King of Norway-Sweden in accordance with Norwegian demands for peace, unifying the two countries under stable conditions. In 1911, after two years of further stabalizing the kingdom, the thirty thousand Swedish infantry were increased to a total of sixty thousand soldiers, divided into thirty thousand from Norway and thirty thousand from Sweden, comprised of sixty infantry divisions, with about one hundred and twenty thousand logistical personnel. The navy was built of five dreadnoughts [three were historically built by Norway, and I assume Sweden, a better economic force would have the ability to build another two], some sixty coastal patrol boats, twenty torpedo boats and eight destroyers [exact statistics will come later].

This mobilization was completed from 1911 to 1920, with it being completed March 1920.

Now, I need to work things out with whoever would play the USA, Soviet Union/Russia [depending on wether its Tsarist or Communist], China and Japan, and Germany of course, the UK and France, and Spain... I'm playing post 1920s Norway-Sweden as an extremely economically active nation, including the building of heavy petroleum and steel industry [the former in Norway, the latter in Sweden], and massive naval wharfs and the such. By 1942 I plan on Norway-Sweden being a fairly large Scandinavian, and even European, power, for I have some plans to carry out...regardless, for now, I need to talk to those players on what exact economic treaties were worked out.

I'll probably be playing China should Oshima and Izu agree to playing a revolutionary Japan.

I'd need to establish a few things with China and Russia before confirming; for instance, if China threw out the foreigners during the Boxer movement and started to modernise then, that would mean no Sino-Japanese war (or at least a very different one) and consequently no Russo-Japanese war. Japan would still interefere in Korea, but wouldn't possess Taiwan, and Russo-Japanese friction would probably be limited to Sakhalin and the Kurile Islands.

Secondly, the regime I propose for Japan is not actually 'revolutionary' in terms of being left wing or democratic.
Historically, the Emperor was restored to power in the Meiji Restoration, which also ended the Tokugawa Shogunate. Whilst notionally an Imperial restoration, true power soon came to rest with the ministers and generals drawn from the two leading groups behind the restoration- Satsuma and Choshu, which resulted in a series of 'strongmen' such as General Prince Yamagata.
Now, if we assume that Japan suffered an early reverse in China in the 1890s or late 1880s; it's only been a few years since the emperor was restored and the samurai abolished, so this course of national development is not yet secure. Most likely, the shock of an early reverse would encourage opponents of the Satsuma-Choshu cliques, and even of direct Imperial rule- after all, for centuries Japan was ruled by Shoguns and hence the actual rule of the Emperor is a new idea. The result would likely be some sort of coup, possibly reactionary in terms of politics, even though modernisation might well have been continued anyway, and it is not unthinkable that a new shogunate might even have resulted.

That is basically my idea- historical up to say the 1890s, so Japan gets involved in Korea, but when it tries to muscle in to China, it doesn't work. Given that China would take a few years to modernise, a defeat isn't as likely as a costly stalemate that ends in an inconclusive peace. This in turn provides the catalyst for elements hostile to the Imperial regime (who I shall name, with no historical basis I might add, the 'Izu-clique') to overthrow the new roder on the grounds that the changes have military dictatorship, which whilst not hostile per se to modernisation (even opponents of the Imperialists recognised the need for this) is certainly more isolationist. Oh, and the administrative capital of Japan will probably end up by moving again...Tokyo having become tainted by association with both the Tokugawa Shogunate and more recently the 'Choshu-Satsuma Regency' (the Emperor was of course not to blame for japan's humiliation; he was mislead by evil councillors who illegal tried to act in his name...).

This is very cool, I approve wholeheartedly. When Dra-pol and I came up with the idea for AMW, I never thought that it would go this far, this is just cool.
WWJD
Amen.

I'd need to establish a few things with China and Russia before confirming; for instance, if China threw out the foreigners during the Boxer movement and started to modernise then, that would mean no Sino-Japanese war (or at least a very different one) and consequently no Russo-Japanese war. Japan would still interefere in Korea, but wouldn't possess Taiwan, and Russo-Japanese friction would probably be limited to Sakhalin and the Kurile Islands.

Here's a brief (yet incomplete) history of what I envision for China around 1900 - 1910 regarding the Boxer Rebellion and a new Dynasty. This should give you an idea what I'm coming from, and why I want to have an Imperial China instead of the RL communist China.

http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=9275744&postcount=1

Wow... While I was away for the weekend this really took off! Before I draw up an alternate history, we need to figure out how possible it would be to curb the depression, because obviously that will majorly affect what I do as the United States.

The Macabees, I'm certainly interested in working something out, as obviously I'll need oil and such.

we need to figure out how possible it would be to curb the depression, because obviously that will majorly affect what I do as the United States.

Today, most economists generally attribute the Great Depression to several factors, including: poor monetary policies of the United States, high deflation, large amounts of speculation and heavy borrowing by investors, a decrease in international trade and a raising of tariffs among most western nations.

Even more reason that it was due to happen, since it would be largely impossible for a U.S. player to make such revolutionary sweeps in economic policy that would allow them to curtail the depression.

The fact that there will be always be large amounts of speculation also makes it obvious that the depression was due to happen. There is large amounts of speculation even today, however, there are checks to avoid large amounts of money being put into the stock market without actual market value.

It is to say, before the 1940s, one could put money into the stock market without actually backing it with money. Meaning, one would basically take a loan out of the stock market. So, technically, the market could be worth 9 trillion USD [randomg number], but in reality it could have been worth 10 billion [random number]. This couldn't necessarilly been curtailed without the experience of the depression, which I think should happen anyways because it's the largest force that made the modern market.

These should help you figure out a way to 'curb' the depression.

I am wondering if I could lay claim to Japan? If so, thanks.

I am wondering if I could lay claim to Japan? If so, thanks.

O&Z and Sharina are talking about that already..0&Z Japan and Sharina China...so for now, no. And this isn't a claims thread..this is working the history of the supposed nation you will take to get the idea of this game across.

http://www.amatecon.com/gd/gdcandc.html this seems like a reasonably accurate portrayal of the causes of the Depression, and from this it appears that by a few Alt Hist tweaks I could reduce its severity somewhat.

Alright, here is what I got on the Russian side of all of this:

1901 Mensheviks and Bolsheviks have a political summit with Tsar Nicholas II on a possible common grounds to avoid a civil war. Bolsheviks demand a complete revolution in the Russian Constitution into a Liberalized Free State with American-like principles, instead of increasing poverty with the capitalist system implaced. The Mensheviks suggest an American-like Republic with same social principles, allowing Middle Classed and Upper Classes Slavs and Belaruzians total dominance and giving other races and classmen minority.

Nicholas II in this mist declairs Russia in a state of Politika (New phrase comming from Russian ideaology; meanning Unique Change). Russia, seeing how its people cannot exist in a capitalist government of almost no middle class, just a small Upper Class and a massive Lower Class of poverty. A turn torwards Socialism in the mist of the Industrial Revolution occures with both parties now against Tsar Nicholas II.

1903 The Russian Orthadoax Church demands the Tsar of Russia free the lands of Turkmenstan, Uzbekistan, and Tajikistan due to religious differences in Muslimnation and Hinduism. Causes a period of unknown futures till 1904 when Tsar Nicholas sends a full army to secure the lands. A massive battle begins and civil war is delcaired as Caucasus states begin also to rebel religiously with the Turk and Uzbek provinces.

1905 In this, the Bolsheviks are exiled all together or killed by Tsar Nicholas II with the aid of pro-Menshevik freelancing assassains. The Bolsheviks knowing of what is happening with fewer and fewer party members living till the next day stage a series of assassinations within a single week. Nicholas II is killed durring one and his successor, a General Parton Romanov takes power as a traditionalist-socialist.

1909 The revolution, called the Marchese Revolution (it started on 4th of March), was silenced finally with a disbandment of uprising generals and lack of centralized support to the public. General Parton Romanov declairs himself Absolute Father of The Motherland, declairing Russia a liberal-traditional socialist state and one of no upper classmen, not even politicans, one of middle classhood. Lies are spred around through news papers (now government controlled by 1907, declairment made durring the civil war) that there are nations in far less shape, and that if you could see food at least once every other day, you were rich. Although it was hard at first, a years' worth of convensing paid through as Turk and Uzbek citizens were being converted to Russian Orthadoxy or forced into factories to build machinery for trucks, cars, tanks, planes, and the rest. Militaristic might was as strong as ever, not threatend by any major civil dispute.

1916 Constant industrial might and increasing demand of industrial goods as povertized Ukrainens and Belaruzians gain up classmanship over Turkmenistani and other Muslim-Hindu majority states. General Romanov reconizes that religon cannot be changed within the soul, and in so demands that all religious symbols and practices be done out of public. Those not majoritized with Russian Orthadoxy are restricted to hardship-filled lives and jobs. One includes a family that gives birth to a man named Karl Marx.

1920 After his family is killed for not complying with work regulations for minorities, Karl Marx begins to find those in the Caucasus region with him, and a Marxist Rebellion begins, through a satellite cause, in Latvia. Causes a free Finish government to aid the Russians in an assault. In responce, Latvia is lost and is forced into Russian submission with Finish influence. General Romanov sees this as an opportunity to poison his citizens, and calls all newspapers to call the Baltic States "Evil, against the Motherland." In responce public approval comes to take the Estonian and Lithuanian lands. With the newly established Finland-Sweden Union as an ally, the Socialist Tsarist States of Russia (CKCP or STSR) marches their newly-designated Father's Army into Lithuanian borders with Fin-Swede support. The war ends with a few small battles with the unstable governments, and the newly established Scandinavian State is given the entire Baltic States as their own burden as the Father's Army pulls out to establish presence in Prussia.
[Germany, what is your stance on me having Prussia?]

1923 Returnning back to the Crimean bases, the Father's Army begins exercises and modernization, and soon disperces into the newly-formed autocratic republic. A council is set up, called the Politika Mass, which each state can elect a leader to represent them, and the influence of that leader depends on the population of the state. Has no real power but word of voice, but the civilians are tould that a vote can overrule the Tsarist's own, although this was lies.

1924 Although better than never, serfdom was abolished as General Romanov's last orders. With it came the illegalization of the feudal system, and a semi-establishment of a collectivist economy. An ever-showing threat from Polish forces, raveged by economic depression (which Russia was barely managing to stay out of due to civilian demands in economy), was forcing a build up on the Polish borders. Polish forces soon attacked in hopes to catch the Russian front off guard, but failed. Before a counter attack could be made, Romanov died of a heart attack, respectively from "A good party."

1926 With Romanov dead, no heir was found. The Tsar-appointed head of the Cheka (or secret police), Ivan Valin, was granted Tsarhood with a Politika Mass approval (only time in history they had actually had power). Declairing himself Tsar of the CKCP, Valin granted a full invasion of Poland from Prussia and Belarus. The industrial need for such a war was great, even as German politicans outcried that a border with the Tsarists was more than enough pressure, but a war with their neighboring country was far worst, and surely an annexation would be made to the winning side.

The war lasted continuously for four years, severely destroying Russia's economy and forced minorities into povertization again. When the war ended with the Tsarists occuping all but North Western Poland, an other religious war began, but this time far out near Korea and Mongolia as Buddhist and Marxist rebels began to activate their voices against Moscow. With Poland surely to be lost if a full counter-stablization was made in the far East, newspapers were tould that the Japanese and Chinese were allied in an invasion of the Eastern states, the same ones revolting.

Militias were privately formed along the borders and war began, the second civil war in less than twenty years. Militiamen were now the main force in Russian culture as for a few years the economically unstable Russia downsized its centralized army, but keeping its navy, expecially its now-growing SAV-Boat (Submarine) Fleet, the same size. Militias formed a Scortched Earth policy over the Mongolian and Korean borders as the uprising came to an end. The "Red Army" as the rebels called themselves were suppressed and Karl Marx was captured, and in Moscov Plaza, was shot by firing squad infront of thousands of onlookers. The Tsarist Army was renamed The White Army, to counter the "Blood" view of the rebels, and the "Pure" view of Tsar Valin.

1941 Civil Stability stayed present as the populous began fears of Japanese and Chinese invasion, and began to make jokes and stories of them. How they resembled vampires from transylvania, the evilish monsters in Belaruzian folklore, and many other horrific statements. Tsar Ivan Valin died, having a young heir, a 23 year-old son, Iosif Valin.

1943 In a rare movement, Tsar Iosif Valin declairs the Politika Mass to have the ability to overrule a Tsar, offically, by a 95% majority, which would otherwise be impossible because those in office, some 80%, were there due to corruptible practices within local sub-governmental systems that were pro-Tsarist. Populated hatrid for Japanese and Chinese races still exists, and the military is classed as a major power, but not that durring Tsar-General Romanov's reign. 70% of Poland is still occupied and a new constitution is being written up as a socialist-tsarist absolute state, same as the CKCP, religious uncertainty still exists in the Caucasus and Stan Regions, and industrial might is high, although the economy could go either way; depression or powerhouse.




You guys like? I am bent on having Asian enemies, since everyone usually focuses on Europe on any past-time RP or Earth. That and Russia really wasn't in European affairs until WW1 and when Hitler invaded in WW2. Hope you like what I did for yeah Mac, I tried to make it realilistic (better have allies than enemies). Be sure to say any objections, pure critisism.

Interesting- I'm curious what happened to our favorite Russian, Stalin? ;)

Perhaps Iosef Valin has something to do with him?

Anyway, any ideas about the Depression are welcome, because even though it starts in the US it also affects almost every other nation. I'm also thinking about a few other changes, notably differences in how the United States handled Cuba and the Philippines, and also the defeat of the extension of the Asian Exclusion Act in 1903. This might put me into more contact with Asian nations.

Anyway, for the Depression a few tweaks such as the defeat of the Smoot-Hawley Tariff, the Federal Reserve not raising interest rates, and a much more substantial arms buildup in conjunction with the Philippine and possible Cuban wars would probably drastically decrease the affect of the Depression.

It's true that the stock market crash was bad, but what made it into the terrible depression was also the ignorant government policies following it. It's not as if there wasn't the knowledge to prevent the economic blunders comitted; in fact, 1,000 economists signed a petition begging the United States not to ratify the Smoot-Hawley tariff in anticipation of the devestating affect it would have on world trade. I'm sure that if those economists were taken more seriously, and the other alternate history changes I have outlined above were put in place, the Western world would not be in as much of a recovering position as it would be.

Just a note...You do realize you're seriously screwing with Marx's life, by making him a war leader and bumping up his birthdate? Just a mention. It'd probably be better to put Lenin in there.

I should edit it and say a Marx-inspired leader, like Lenin, was the lead warrior. And yeah, Stalin's first name (real) was Iosif. Just a little FYI for those that want to know, and Valin means Man of Purity, like Stalin means Man of Steel. So, who knows, he might be the same person (tries to look innocent). No Stalinism though, I want a Tsarist regime to last as the longest-lasting government in power (if I am not mistaken, Tsars took Russia before the drafting of the American constitution so...)

I should edit it and say a Marx-inspired leader, like Lenin, was the lead warrior. And yeah, Stalin's first name (real) was Iosif. Just a little FYI for those that want to know, and Valin means Man of Purity, like Stalin means Man of Steel. So, who knows, he might be the same person (tries to look innocent). No Stalinism though, I want a Tsarist regime to last as the longest-lasting government in power (if I am not mistaken, Tsars took Russia before the drafting of the American constitution so...)

Whoah- I didn't know Iosif = Stalin. That's a pretty exotic and far-out name, Iosif... Hell, I wonder what kids would think if I named my kid Iosif? :p

Josef Stalin - the Cyrillic alphabet, and the transliterartion, doesn't have the letter J, just as Latin doesn't, so it's spelt Iosef Stalin. Also, it's not Julius Caesar, but Iulius Caesar, so on and so forth...it's actually interesting.... Caesar is pronounced with the C being hard, like a k, and ae sound like an I...so it sounds like Kaiser, which doesn't make the word Kaiser that far off from Caesar, so it kinds of explains how Kaiser came from Caesar...and Tsar, obviously, from sar.

Thanks for the lesson, Macabees. I guess I learned something new today. :D

Yup, like C (pronoused like Cat) does not exist, which is why Karl is spelt that way, and not Carl (as in Karl Marx). And other history lesson.

How do ya'll think about it without Marx, but Lenin, heading the resistence. I am sure a character RP of sorts could unveil Valin (now since someone ruined it as Stalin) to be the character we love, but slightly different; such as him loving authority (instead of his father beating him then disapearing, he'll leave his wife when she gets pregnant) and not so socially progressive.

Ouch- my apologies if I spoiled anything.

I want to see Stalin lead a different Russia- The premise of a famous leader acting, thinking, feeling, and behaving differently has great promise for great RP. For instance, suppose Mao wasn't communist-lover, but rather a Facism lover or an advocate of democracy in an alternate timeline? That'd be very interesting for China- Imagine "Fuhrer Mao" or "President Mao". ;)

Yes, I know about many of the accursed classical Latin pronunciation differences, like "I" for "J" and "W" for "V." And they have macrons too!

Well, anyway, a different Stalin does show promise. It seems pretty cool, but I agree with others that having Karl Marx in his historical personality as a military leader isn't very realistic.

The only difference between the I and the J, and the W and the V, is that the I replaced the J in the alphabet, while the W doesn't exist in the Latin alphabet, yet the sound does as the V. So something spelt Via, or road, would be pronounced 'wia'.

Yes, of course. Still, a discussion into Latin pronunciation is kind of off topic here. I suggest we go back to discussing this alt hist.

Alright, I think if were really serious about starting this RP up, we need to compile a list of who's interested and what nation they are interested in playing, along with the Alternate Histories they have provided. Furthermore, we need to standardize rules (time incriments, player conduct, mod structure ect.) and lastly, we need to start making maps for claims.

Well, we have the following:

Truitt - Russia/Soviet Union
The Macabees - Kingdom of Norway and Sweden [with Greenland and Danish Baltic Islands]
Philanchez - Spain
Lachenburg - The Netherlands [with Luxembourg and (?) Belgium]
Oshima and Izu - Japan [?]
Sharina - Imperial China
Vietnamexico - Germany [with Czechslovakia, a slip of Eastern Hungary, and Romania and mainland Denmark]
Caladonn - The United States

Correct?

This would be the map: http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/3524/worldcolor8ls.gif

Yup- I'm ready to start whenever you guys are. :)

Spain would also own Northern Morocco and the Western Sahara; forgot to add thatl; as well as Equatorial Guinea.

Well, we have the following:

Truitt - Russia/Soviet Union
The Macabees - Kingdom of Norway and Sweden [with Greenland and Danish Baltic Islands]
Philanchez - Spain
Lachenburg - The Netherlands [with Luxembourg and (?) Belgium]
Oshima and Izu - Japan [?]
Sharina - Imperial China
Vietnamexico - Germany [with Czechslovakia, a slip of Eastern Hungary, and Romania and mainland Denmark]
Caladonn - The United States

Correct?

That's about right.

Nice map Mac! And yes your list is correct.

Here are my alt hist ideas for the US. Basically, instead of fighting a long and protracted war in the Philippines, Roosevelt and Aguinaldo reach an agreement whereby the Philippines will eventually become a state and be granted significant autonomy.

Also, the Great White Fleet Tour is cancelled as most of the ships that would take part in that are out of date already, and much of those funds goes to experimental aircraft carrier designs. The first flight off of a ship is conducted a year early, and by 1920 the first aircraft carrier that is not a conversion from another ship is comissioned, two years before the Japanese built the first one in RL.

In 1922 the Washington Treaty is signed, severely limiting the battleship and battlecruiser nmbers and tonnage of the six signatory nations, the USA, Britain, Germany, Japan, and Italy. Aircraft Carriers are also limited, but since they are defined as experimental craft, the limitations are far less severe and able to be circumvented far more easily.

The Stock Market crashes in 1929, sending the world into a global depression. However, as Hoover begins to lose support from the people for his inability to curtail the depression he listens to a petition signed by many eminent economists and vetoes the Smoot-Hawley Tariff, while lowering interest rates.

This in turn causes other nations not to raise punitive tariffs, and drastically lifts the affect of the depression. However, even this is not enough to keep Hoover in office, and he is ousted in 1933 by Franklin Delano Roosevelt, who continues to alleviate problems by creating the New Deal and starting massive public projects, which includes modernizing the military. He knows that war would alleviate the depression greatly, and so jumps at the chance to restore Cuban freedom when the Dictator Batista instigated a coup and took over.

Through the Platt Amendment Roosevelt ordered the Carribean naval squadrons to converge on Cuba. A blockade was initiated, and amphibious assaults forced Batista into guerrila activities. Nonetheless, the interior of Cuba proved a very difficult fighting ground for the army. With the addition of aircraft from a naval carrier, however, Batista's rebels were much easier to find and destroy. Batista was defeated, and Roosevelt added Cuba to the list of United States possessions, which the Cubans accepted for the time being, albeit with much protest.

The war completed what the New Deal had begun, and the United States was well on its way to overcoming the depression which had plagued the world for many years. With the expiring of the Washington Treaty in 1934, two years earlier than RL at the urging of Japan, new projects were begun and President Roosevelt is still in office.

How does this sound? Is it too much? If so, I can redo it.

looks fine i just cant wait to start...

Well, if you want, in 1932 The Kingdom of Norway and Sweden and the United States sign a free trade agreement to alleviate market depressions in both countries. The agreement would include the reduction of all tarriffs, unlimeted trading quotas for both countries, et cetera.

I'm playing Norway-Sweden as an ultra-capitalist market economy and ultra-capitalist government. So, my roleplays will sorround that, and so will my military roleplays.

That would work. I can't wait to start either!

I'm playing Norway-Sweden as an ultra-capitalist market economy and ultra-capitalist government. So, my roleplays will sorround that, and so will my military roleplays.

No Liberal Welfare state? What a pity... :D

Anyways, it seems as if the majority of the western world will continue to support a lazziez-faire type economic-base (as have I). I wonder what effect will this have on the progression of our Earth...

Well, I plan to be a bit more agressive..but my first role plays are going to be purely economical and character based [very agressive economics], except maybe for a few martial role plays, depending on how people react.

Im gonna RP a liberal elected dictatorship...I term it Monarcho-Socialism!

I am ready tpo begin when you all are

We only need Truitt...Where is the man? I think hes moveing or something right?

Already moved, just unpacking. Nice map Mac, I guess Prussia never went to the Motherland...oh well. Dang, I thought you were Finland-Sweden, not Sweden-Norway....now I have to make fun of you for playing Norway.....

Alright, any objections before I get this show on the road?

Is my brief history of China (based off my China in E20) good enough? I could fill in the blanks along the way, like technological, economic, infrastructure, etc. development? :)

Poland should be divvied up between Austria, Germany and Russia now that I think of it...updates to come tomorrow.

now I have to make fun of you for playing Norway.....
What? Norway is cool! A thousand Swedes ran through the weeds, chased by one Norwegian. (No offense intended to anyone who is Sweden.)

Alright, any objections before I get this show on the road?

I think were good to go. Of course, with a few more members (were definantly going to need a France and UK) it should be perfect.

Well, a last bump as I write up the topic page's rules and what not, first day of new school tomorrow so I may not have it done till Tuesday. Keep on talking and bumping it up.

And yeah, I should have a little portion of Poland that touches Prussia to Belarus, if it is fine with Germany.

I'm ready!

Are we starting soon?

Are we starting soon?

Probably when the forums are fixed. I know quite a few people can't login onto the forums the past few days, either from NS main page or from bookmarks.

I'm lucky if I can get into the forums- I just got lucky this time I entered this thread.

I would be interested in doing this, but I don't know what countries are still available.

I would be interested in doing this, but I don't know what countries are still available.

Britain, France, Portugal, Italy, Austria-Hungary, Yugoslavia, Greece, Mexico, All South American Countries, All Central American Countries, Cuba, Canada. There's a lot of countries left.

Yes, the more the merrier!

I think I'd like to be Austria-Hungary.

Well, write up a history while I am at work typing the topic-post of the actual thread; with the forums giving me troubles and the new place/school I have been delayed with a big project first week in. At least it was something I know, pre-Communist Russia (seriously).

I think I'd like to be Austria-Hungary.


A good choice, but you have to accept one thing, the fact that Austria-Hungary sold a strip of Eastern Hungary to Germany at some point [the exact year can be found in Germany's history, in some post around here]. But that's about it.

OOC: ok, are we all ready

I'll sign up as the United Kingdom, if permitted.

OCC: Go ahead, I see no problems with that.

Yea, I changed my mind :p . Screw Norway-Sweden, I want to be Cambodia, simply because I just read a book on Pol Pot. So, there. I'm not changing the history at all, and I'm still acting under French rule, which means I would need a France.

Okay, Austria-Hungary:

(BTW, German "Eastern Hungary Strip" is a bit vague. Do you mean Galicia?)

The Kaiserlich und Königlich (Imperial and Royal) Empire of Austria-Hungary was formed after an Austrian conquest of various kingdoms and lands in its surrounding area, ending with the signing of the Treaty of Budapest in February of 1867, and subsequent declaration of the new Austro-Hungarian Empire.

Originally, the Empire's official lands consisted of:

the Kingdom of Bohemia ,
the Kingdom of Dalmatia,
the Kingdom of Galicia and Lodomeria ,
the Archduchy of Austria (as Upper Austria and Lower Austria) ,
the Duchy of Bukowina ,
the Duchy of Carinthia ,
the Duchy of Carniola ,
the Duchy of Salzburg ,
the Duchy of Upper Silesia and Lower Silesia ,
the Duchy of Styria ,
the Margravate of Moravia ,
the Princely County of Tyrol (including the Land of Vorarlberg),
the Küstenland ("Coastal Land", including the Princely County of Gorizia and Gradisca, the City of Trieste and the Margravate of Istria).,
the Kingdom of Hungary- including Transylvania and Vojvodina ,
the Kingdom of Croatia and Slavonia ,
the City of Fiume
and Bosnia-Herzegovina.

However, following a short war in 1915, Galicia and Lodomeria were ceded to Germany.

Since its formation, trouble has arisen due to the variety of languages spoken. Due to this a new language, Austro-Magyar (largely based on German) was introduced and is now spoken by 70% of citizens.

In 1914, the then Archduke Franz Ferdinand narrowly missed being assassinated by the Black Hand Gang, a Serbian Nationalist Organization. Due to this, the Empire invaded and annexed Serbia, thereby establishing a Sphere of Influence over the Balkans.

The Empire has prospered industrially and economically, and has established a strong military. Emperor Franz Ferdinand is hugely popular with the people for leading their nation to victory in the Balkans.

The Empire now has its eyes set on North-Eastern Italy, as historically Venice and the Veneto had been under the control of Austria, with a Habsburgian Doge present. Most of the citizens are of Austro-Hungarian descent and Austro-Magyar is a widely spoken language.

The Austro-Hungarian Empire has never participated in any alliances and has only taken part in a war with Germany since its creation as a single nation.

Yea, I changed my mind :p . Screw Norway-Sweden, I want to be Cambodia, simply because I just read a book on Pol Pot. So, there. I'm not changing the history at all, and I'm still acting under French rule, which means I would need a France.


Screw it; I'll just take France in general and roleplay it all. :p History coming soon.

Is my history okay? I'm just a bit uncertain about it.

Screw it; I'll just take France in general and roleplay it all. :p History coming soon.
Perhaps you should ask Elk to do that.

Is my history okay? I'm just a bit uncertain about it.

Seems good to me.


Perhaps you should ask Elk to do that.


I left him a message a while ago, but he never responded. Regardless, that'll give me a sphere of influence in European and Asian politics - two areas I'm very interested in; although it does leave with a huge overextended Empire. Regardless, imagine all the wars!

Seems good to me.

Okay, thanks.

Truitt said he won't be able to begin this, so he gave the green light to do it myself. We could either discuss this further, or I can put up the opening post [fully OOC, with rules and such] and we can get this started. Objections?

I'm fine to begin.

Seems good to me.



I left him a message a while ago, but he never responded. Regardless, that'll give me a sphere of influence in European and Asian politics - two areas I'm very interested in; although it does leave with a huge overextended Empire. Regardless, imagine all the wars!

Yeah, I guess Elk is too busy with whatever he's doing. Has Quint contacted you?

Yeah, I guess Elk is too busy with whatever he's doing. Has Quint contacted you?

Nope.

Guys, no offense, but would you mind not calling yourselves A Past World? Your history doesn't really lead up to the AMW history, so it's not really a past version of our world, and could lead to some confusion.

I'm ready to start.

Guys, no offense, but would you mind not calling yourselves A Past World? Your history doesn't really lead up to the AMW history, so it's not really a past version of our world, and could lead to some confusion.


Ack! You should have said something before!


Unfortunately, this was put up: http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=451558

Damn Jon, I wanted to RP the invasion of ou as norway, damn

Ack! You should have said something before!


Unfortunately, this was put up: http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=451558
Ah well, it doesn't matter that much.

Mac I was groiunded aboiut two weeks ago so expect me to become really active and be rping heavily within two weeks. sorry if this holds up the rp...