NationStates Jolt Archive


OOC: "Snowblind" Jallegona M.B.T. Discussion

Truitt
28-09-2005, 16:05
Romanian: Ha-Yeh-Gohn-Ah (My weak way to show how it is pronoused)
Translation: Hovertank

Alright, this is open for pure debate over its characteristics. I will be adding and removing features as they become needed discussion and what not.

A little background:

I have grown tired of RPing a nation that is a tropical chain of hundreds of islands, so I am going a chain of islands in a tundran climate inbetween Iceland and Greenland. Note that although I am some 3 billion men strong (just reached it, too!) I still have hundreds of these islands, just tundras with unfounded land.

I was never a tank man, aircraft and ships were always my specialty and still are. So, I have begun talking to Mac, Verst., and for a brief period a while back MassPwnage on tank technology. With it, is my way to still have ground dominance in armor without sinking, a hovertank.

Now, it has come to my attention that many other nations (Sharina being the most resent I have found) have developed hovertanks, and my idea of a hovertank to this change has always been an idea. But seeing the designs of these tanks I see them too futuristic, beyond that of my 2008 time limit. Which is why I will be developing the first feasible and well-thought-out hovertank.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v289/Truitt/Hammer_M2_Ursa_Hovertank.jpg

Powerplant and Propulsion
Because nuclear technology would be the easiest way of doing this (four extremely small turbofans) I was thinking of pebblebeds, but that is too PMT, dispite smaller ones being built monthly.

Since I also don't want a running hydrogen bomb (ala a Hydrogen Fuel cell) I have come up with an unpractical idea to power these four turbofans.

Gel-based stimulants and propellants in jet technology has gone even further with the first RAMjet-powered missile being tested some years ago. Since then, NSers have designed missiles with gel-based propulsions, instead of solid or liquid, and some estute (as myself) have used gel-based propellants in jet fueling, as it is easier to use and it will not ignite with a single spark.

Now, a normal pistol engine would not do the trick, and direct feeding of the gel propulsor would mean a more unstable speed due to the smallness of the turbofans and of the armor, which cannot go too fast. The solution: A Quasiturbine Engine.

The basic principle of the Quasiturbine is a rectangle-like object that turns counter-clockwise. The fuel is injected into an injection section of the turbine which moves it into a slimmer compression section. Combustion is inserted on the hot gel which already is reactive like a liquid at this compressed state, which a spark is given to combust. The combustion moves the turbine even more and the exhust is in the fourth section.

Basic diagrahm (http://quasiturbine.promci.qc.ca/QTVideos/Qtv2-SCAnim2.gif)
Fuel Injection Cycle (http://quasiturbine.promci.qc.ca/QTImages/Qt-Flash-Final.gif)

Because of gel being so reactive in this state, it is economical because of lack of need of a lot at once, unlike piston engines. It is also enviromental since gel-based stimulants usually dispearce as a basic element or compound, and in some cases of a hydrogen-helium gel stimulant, the by-product is water (as in hydrogen fuel cells but in more amounts).

The propulsion is to be done by two turbofans. The two are mounted behind the turret which are angled around the design. The engines control speed and give out 12,300 pounds of thrust. The speed can be cancelled by two side-fans (basic conventional fans) which retract outwards on a spring system that a battery turns them. The fans turn at 4,560 spins per minute, slowing from a speed of 50mph to 0mph in a half a minute's time.

The two other turbofans are smaller and located right on the sides of the rear of the tank. They produce some 8,670 pounds of thrust each and are used to turn the front of the tank slowly and can be used in acceleration. Because of their two-spooled design, they can also accelerate in reverse to further slow the tank.

Once the tank's heading had been changed, the directional changers can be used in thrust on that specific direction with the fixed turbofans still running, causing a small turn. High manuverability is limited, but possible in lighter variants (lighter armored variants to be developed).

Floatation Skirt
The floation skirt is designned of a nylon-rubber laytex compound that can withstand up to .50 caliber gun fire for a short duration of time. There are four skirts each, with an emergency mid-skirt which can be inflated incase of a direct hit from an enemy tank or what not. This skirt however is thin and even subjectible to infantry fire (some 6mm rounds).

These four skirts are designned so if one is blown, the entire craft can still operate. The entire craft can operate with one main skirt, as the emergency one would activate after a second skirt has been blown.

As in the fact of an anti-tank round, mine, or missiles it is more than likely all skirts will be blown. The emergency skirt can withstand the stresses of the entire craft for a few minutes. It can be used to escape or to avoid sure death, but can only go up to 30mph for two minutes.

Armor

The armor is made up of an Reactive Anti-Kinetic Armor (RAKA) and a lower honeycomb layer of vandium-lithium with two additive electrons onto the vandium atom for additive ionization of the two elements into a strong and durable light metal called Vanthium.

It can withstand hits from a 40mm rounds or smaller. However, anything larger than 40mm and it just might be finished. However, this will be fighting in the weak tundra, where anything more than 45 tons will sink, and anything with a gun bigger than 40mm is sure to be stuck.

Primary Gun
It was found that the weight of the turbofans was too great to carry a typical 80mm smoothbore, which was the original design idea. The caliber was downsized to 62mm and was given a line of new munitions to fit.

One munition is a dead-hit (meanning non-guided) round of percision. Because of this round, the tank must not be moving. It uses TNT, tungsten, and magnesium as a reaction to force a tungsten rod in the armor. It can penitrate quite a bit, being far more perising than a Leopard II's own gun, but lacks any explosive capabilities. An other munition was made an other dead-hit round, but this one slightly different. It fires from the tank and at a pre-determined time (more than likely 4 seconds of flight defaultly) will seperate. The round is tipped with a HEAT charge, a 23lb force. Mostly used against bunkers and tightly-held armored and vehicle units.

An other munition is guided, to be used while firing. It fires and is a blast-fragment, designned to explode to destroy treads by knocking them off or by destroying a few wheels. The charge is a small 2lb TNT stick which appon hitting an object (the target, ground, or what not) blows to a massive force of the fuel that remains, which is a liquid-based fuel. The explosions causes the pieces of the munition to act like a warhead itself. It is guided by either a laser, IR, or LIDAR guidance system with a radio connect to the tank's computer.

The tank itself is designed to hold five of either round, of any combonation. More than likely the tank will not be alone, so amounts of rounds is not an option.

On more details to the gun, it has a thermal sleeve and an exhust redirector to the front of the turbofans, which in turn are sucked in.

A clip feed is set up with two clips located running around the side of the turret. One side can be configured which ever way, the other to the other. This can be decided on which clip to choose once firing.

Other Guns
The Snowblind is to be used against tanks, yes, but the need for lighter munitions may come. So, a .50 caliber gun has been mounted behind the turret (attached to it, actually) and can be swivled around the turret to the sides at 90 degree angles.

A more unconventional take is the newer rocket system which launches up to 10 small rockets with a flast-fragmented tip each. They are designned to be fired at a group of infantry, buildings, tanks, or what not. Or when guided rounds are not available and when you just can't stop; point and unleash the horde.

Also loaded is a grenade launcher, some 72mm sized, which is capable of firing a reinforced reared grenade up to 1,245 yards at 670 rounds per minute on a 32 round turret-stored feed. It is located right above the turret where a conventional machine gun would usually be placed.

Other

The crew work in an intense area. Although three can operate the machine (Driver, Cordenater, Gunner) it is suggested that a fourth be added for in-mission maintance, control, and so on.

Due to four turbofans, and with exhausts of the gun fire and macine heat is expelled infront of the intakes, the heat signature is massive. In the climates where the Jewittist Republic lays IR is the only liable way of sensors, due to a massive difference between outside air of -10 degrees F to an engine's exhaust of 103 F. There must be a way to stop incomming IR rounds, and the solution is the rockets. The rockets produce a massive amount of heat, heat which if firing hastingly at the enemy could confuse an enemy round into thinking its target is comming straight at it.

An additive IR-evading characteristric is that simular to newer air craft. The turbofans' exhust is shaped not like a sphere, but like a triangle. Its 90-degree angles allows for the heat to split into three waves instead of a single massive one, which in turn mix with the outside fridget air and could be some 80 degrees F just a meter from the exhust (from the original 120 degrees F). This could aid in avoidance if flares or rockets were fired.

As to the problem of radar, it is totally useless due to the speed at which it is going. An anti-aircraft round or something capable of engaging a manuvering aircraft would be needed, and as for LIDAR and Satellite, good luck.

For a further explaination of the floatation skirt, it is designned to distribute the weight evenly throughout the entire mass, instead of on two long planks (like tanks normally do with treads). Although the weight of treads and controls of the treads is replaced by the weight of the turbofans and skirt equipment, there is actually a better efficancy.

Seeing some need of countermeasures, dispite them being in such low amounts to have no effect, is a single chaft trail of flares which fire flares above the turret forward of the tank, to allow incomming missiles (mostly from aircraft) to belive that the tank is still moving, but as a flare, and not the actual tank. Because the flare stores are only enough for a single shot and the weight is massive, they will usually be used in unison with other tanks. Also, each flare has a small reactive lithium-nitrogen charge which, when mixed, causes the flare to disperce. Although the explosion will barely even harm a human, the light materials in the active flare will be heavily influenced into a massive cloud.

Due to further confusion, these flares are in fact red during launch, but when the lithium-nitrogen charge activates (usually within 4 secounds; enough time for the tank to be long-gone) the flares change to a cyan-lime green color that makes quite a show for pilots and troops.

Further
A skirt itself produces, for say, ten pounds of support (per skirt). There are four skirts, so fourty pounds of support. The armor, crew, and mechanisms to hold up a treaded system would be thirty four pounds, but since a skirt mechanism is a lot less and the armor is far less than that of a typical MBT, the total pressure on the four skirts is twenty pounds, half. Now, due to distributional changes of the four seperately, it is really about eighteen pounds stress.
With those out of the way, there are the guns, missiles, rockets, and turbofans. Each turbofan is small, two pounds each. With 8 pounds total, or seven with distribution in count, that is 26 pounds stress on the skirt. It still has enough room for some 14 pounds, which the guns, missiles, and rockets all are together 12 pounds (after distribution). This allows an extra 2 pounds for support.
NOTE: This was an example, the numbers are much larger, but downsized for simplicity.

Any comments, questions? About to publish the real statistics in a minute.
Truitt
29-09-2005, 16:35
B(eing)U(berly &)M(ajorly)P(aranoid) for this morning.
Sharina
29-09-2005, 16:38
(sigh)

I guess I started a fad then, with my Paragon-II being a hovertank. ;)
Aysheaia
29-09-2005, 16:49
I've always been skeptical about hovertanks, myself - mainly for the maneuverability. Probably the closest weight-wise to a hovertank would be the navy LCAC (http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ship/lcac.htm), which is a 120 ton hover landing craft. It requires something like 500 meters to stop, and the turning radius is 2 kilometers. It also is reportedly very demanding to drive, requiring training on the scale of a helicopter pilot. This gives you, then, a tank that is far less maneuverable than a treaded tank, which requires far more fuel (oh, yes, it does!), and is very tough to drive (requiring expensive crew training).

I'd say put the thing on treads, add some anti-mine tactics to your army, and smile, because the rest of the tank looks like a winner to me.
Truitt
02-10-2005, 03:42
Problem is I am all tundra terrain. Anything heavier than 50 tonnes will sink. Plus, I have a lot of land that needs to be traveled in a shrot amount of time. Sharina, this idea came about a while ago, but lately with all the new hovertanks wanting to spring out I thought of going ahead and doing it before someone tried to invade me with one of those.

But yeah, this is mostly for my general job of transfering power across the tundras. Cause, like I said, 60% of my nation is 0 population (and if I didn't say it, there it is).
Scellia
02-10-2005, 04:17
Thats a Hammers Slammers tank up in the pic, isn't it. Those are the only ones I know that use cyan beams as the weaponry color. Oh, and I think this is feasible because it doesn't try to be a full tank, its meant to fight where weight and traction is restricted.
Truitt
02-10-2005, 04:28
Exactly. Plus, with its reverse spooling turbofans it can slow and rapidly change direction. The only problem I see is that it does take a while to train, more than a chopper pilot. Also, its gun is small its total ordanance is limited, and its armor can't take more than its own gun, unlike other hovertanks that have 120mm ETCs, missile launchers, elaberate countermeasures, all of that.

So yeah, I still think this is a nice beauty, at least for my terrain. It might also be a good landing craft to throw off the side of a ship.
Scellia
02-10-2005, 04:59
Another suggestion, though it can't go over water, is wide track. Example:

M-271 Lite

Crew: 3
-Gunner
-Commander
-Driver
Weight: 50 tons
Width: 4.3m
Length: 7.2m
Height: 2.4m
Track Width: 3.5m
Track Length: 7m
PSI: 2.6
Armor: 18 tons
RHA Ratings KE:
-Turret: 900mm
-Glacis :530mm
-Lower front hull: 490mm
RHA Ratings CE:
-Turret: 1300mm
-Glacis: 600mm
-Lower front hull: 770mm
Max Speed: 60 Kph
Rough Terrain: 45 Kph
10% Grade: 30 Kph
60% Grade: 12 Kph
Armament:
-1 100mm Autoloading Smoothbore (25 rounds)
-1 7.62mm Coaxial Machinegun (2000 rounds)
Range: 300 km
Unit Replacement Cost: $3,700,000

The M-271 Lite was specifically designed for combat in areas where ground pressure became an issue, like swamps or tundra. The clawed treads gives the Lite excellent grip in any terrain and while the 100mm smoothbore is small compared to the guns of normal tanks it is unlikely that the M-271 will find any full sized tanks in the areas it will be deployed to. The low PSI, a 200 lbs man with size 13 feet has a PSI .1 higher, allows it not to sink into the previously mentioned terrain.

This is just off the top of my head, as an idea for you, but only you because I liked the Slammers pic that you drew. I'll probably use it myself.
Truitt
03-10-2005, 03:17
Thanks for the suggestion, a pick from your StoreFront I take it? (Seemed a little more in-depth than something from the top of someone's head)

I value it, but this is specifically designed for other reasons than just tundran travel, which I will be working on and editting into the first post. I already have modified a lot of things that I have seen a little off. Wouldn't mind if someone came in and checked in on my new gun (made it slightly smaller to account for the more stores of ordanance) and on its propulsion (made the turning engines slightly stronger while taking away some maximum speed).
Lame Bums
03-10-2005, 03:37
Well, like I said over AIM, this tank, in terms of armor and firepower, is incredibly wimpy. A 62mm gun, simply put, isn't going to take out an enemy tank. You might knock off a tread if you get lucky.

Also, it takes a while to get a hovertank moving, and then to stop or turn...

If I was in a situation like this, I'd mount a 120mm ETC gun on top of a paper box and have extra-wide treads, keeping it down to about 40-45 ton range, and fire SCRAMjet-assissted rounds. Armor won't be an issue if you can knock off an enemy's tank at three times their range, and the tank can still move reasonably fast across terrains.

Frankly, tundra like that you describe, isn't tank country, it's like what a desert is to a submarine.
Scellia
03-10-2005, 04:35
Thanks for the suggestion, a pick from your StoreFront I take it? (Seemed a little more in-depth than something from the top of someone's head)

Actually no, I've been doing a lot of design for my super heavy line of tanks so I had all the stats on a Word doc to look up. Used to have a storefront but don't anymore.


If I was in a situation like this, I'd mount a 120mm ETC gun on top of a paper box and have extra-wide treads, keeping it down to about 40-45 ton range, and fire SCRAMjet-assissted rounds. Armor won't be an issue if you can knock off an enemy's tank at three times their range, and the tank can still move reasonably fast across terrains.

ETC guns add a quarter more weight more then normal guns, and if the armor is too bad then a guy with a AK can take out your tank. If fact both the Lite and the hover tank are going to end up being good targets for missiles, but both have enough armor to have a chance of standing up to all but the most advanced missiles. Those ones are heavy, and people give off good IR sigs in the tundra so you don't want to remain in one spot too long.

However something that has little to know armor is practically asking to have a single guy with an old RPG-7 take out your $3,000,000 tank. Plus if you can mount assisted rounds so can they, and I'm not sure ETC and assisted rounds are compatible.
Phoenixius
03-10-2005, 05:34
Looks nice Truitt. You at least haven't tried to make a MBT hovertank, more of an armoured car sort of thing. For your main gun, you say you need to be stopped to use it, but surely the force of the gun will push the tank backwards, even if the engines are switched on right before firing?
Truitt
03-10-2005, 15:23
Maybe I should include a part on how to fire, moving or not.

As explained, two rounds are made while you are not moving, but since complete motion will probably be needed, you can be going at a certain speed (for now let's say 45km/h; a fair cruiseing speed) and fire. Since the guided rounds have rockets, they can be pushed out at a fair enough motion to where the wide base of the Snowblind could handle. Maybe its direction will be sacrifised (like it may angle a few single-digits) but in all it will not be damaged at all, since the skirt is designed to withstand kinetic shock (but not explosive shock).

LB, as I explained, this is the most probable version of an effective unit in tundran warfare. Anything with a gun bigger than this could pretty much have no armor, or sink. Hell, my armor is only designed to withstand infantry fire, some .50 caliber maximum (maybe heavier, but it'll get some major damage).

Also, the speed and manuverability has been solved with the turbofans, it is very effective but can take up to 45 seconds before a full directional change. But then again, minor changes are mostly what are needed, in tundran warfare at least.

I am including a new characteristic just now, going to edit after this post, that will lower by IR signature in the same way how the F-22 does.


EDIT:

Sorry P., I mis-read your post. It is true that the turbofans will be activated before the rounds are fired to ensure minimal traveling in the wrong direction, but some distance will be made. While going forward the speed may decrease (if fired forward). I have not decided yet but a pre-determined speed will be said for side-firing.
Truitt
03-10-2005, 22:01
BUMPage